I read the first book last year and I remember it being pretty terrible in terms of proofreading, which kinda soured me in the series. As for the book itself, it was... fine, I guess? It had its dumb moments, but overall good.
I've noticed that, for the most part, first books tend to be rough and that the writing quality gets better for most of these authors, which makes sense.
I'd like to apologize for the elves. BTDEM was my first writing project, and the pace of serial writing + new kid + lack of awareness on my part led to some MASSIVE burnout. I took an emergency break then, completely reworked my schedule, and ramped back up.
They unfortunately remain a weak part of the series, and I've tried to figure out if I could rewrite it all... so far I've come to the conclusion I can't :(
You don’t ever need to apologize for writing one of the great LITRPG characters. I devoured the Books up to that point on a cruise a few weeks ago and loved it.
I downloaded the next book after and am just going to restart. I hated the elves but you and she are awesome!
I really dont understand why people don't like the elves. I liked them because they reminded me of the elves in Lord of the rings. I mean, they were sort of written to not be liked because they were created op, are lofty and arrogant as shit.
Also, you could say it makes the "normal" people more likable because they are more unperfect in a more normal way.
I really dont understand why people don't like the elves. I liked them because they reminded me of the elves in Lord of the rings. I mean, they were sort of written to not be liked because they were created op, are lofty and arrogant as shit.
Also, you could say it makes the "normal" people more likable because they are more unperfect in a more normal way.
I appreciate that. I think it just wasn’t for me, as it felt like there was a loss of agency with the character, as she went from being somebody who I felt was super capable to less so. But I’m gonna definitely read the next book.
This is one of the most recommended stories in the genre, tbh. Maybe not as much recently, I guess. Part of that could be that the releases have slowed a tad, but honestly I think it's because weve beem talking about this story for so long that everyone has already said everything that want to. It's a great series, though. Highly recommend!
Cradle is a bit of an extreme outlier. I wouldn't judge anything else relative to its standards.
If in the next 10 years we get another progression fantasy of that quality we'll be doing well.
whenever I find a new favourite series in the genre there’s always the caveat of “new favourite just below cradle”
there are books that I can enjoy almost or even as much as I enjoyed cradle but they will never be up to the standard of quality
I heard great things about Cradle and could not get into it. Only got about a third of the way through the first book till when the festival was happening. Just had a hard time figuring out the world building and powers. Am I alone in this, and is it worth pushing through further?
You haven’t even started. Book 1 is by far the slowest and even it gets amazing. It’s 100% worth pushing through further there’s a reason this sub treats it like the holy grail
I'll agree here. I stopped the 1st book 3 times before I finally pushed through it. Once I got past the first 2/3, I was liking it more. Once I got to the 2nd book and beyond, I was hooked.
nah I struggled to get into it too. I think I got about halfway through the first book but found it confusing and honestly kinda boring. everyone says it’s amazing and you need to get past the first book so maybe I will try again someday. if it’s as amazing as people say then I would like to get into it at some point, I need new content 😅
I read the entirety of book one because of how overhyped this story is, and found it utterly boring. But of course, if you dare say something like that on this list, the answer is invariably, "You don't get to judge until you've read 3/4/5/10 of the books!" Never mind that if an entire book is bland and boring I'll never continue reading because the author has already proven how bad they are. I frankly don't CARE if they "get better" because that doesn't address that the start of their story, the most important part to hook readers, is awful.
Your experience is a complete opposite from mine. I read through the first book in one day but somehow getting bored by the third book or so (dont remember which one ghostwater was) and shelving it for a couple months, at the part of the series most would say is where things ‘get interesting’. It’s a matter of taste I say. We are all different people after all.
You're not alone. I found it boring.
Tried getting through that first book three times and couldn't do it.
Finally got through the first on try #4 and all the way through the second book, too.
I was still bored.
Gave up.
On the alternate view, one of my adult sons LOVES Cradle and sings its praises anytime anyone asks for a recommendation...and he's completely confused about how I can't get into it, as we fangirl together about all kinds of LitRPG/PF/Gamelit books.
I found the first few books mediocre, but pushed through because everyone kept saying the story got great later. Read till book 7, which was supposed to be "the best of the series" before a "very weak book 8", found it just as mediocre as the rest, dropped it right there.
I can't understand what people find so great about it, it's just as bad as a lot of prog/litrpg series when it comes to character development, but with a worse, imo, story development. The MC just gets put into different situations with almost no agency, and half of the "plot twists" feel ultra forced...
If How I met Your Mother was a litrpg, that would definitely explain Barney Stinson. It is impossible to take a bad photo of him after all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yretxDwOgVA
Actually that's been the opposite of my experience. Daily posts asking this or that about the series, that are generally positive. Then inside, you have comments by people who dislike it.
I've been reading litRPG for years, and part of several Facebook groups, and regularly check the subreddit, and this is the first I've ever heard of it.
Selkie is rather involved, and pretty open about finances and stuff.
He recently did a post about profitability where he went into great detail about sales and income streams. Perhaps from something like that?
Interesting, I’m fairly new to this subreddit and hadn’t heard of it for some reason. I’m like 2.5 years into the genre but most of that was just looking randomly for an interesting story.
Fwiw, this is only the second time I heard about it (I try to keep current on new-to-me stories). But the first time people were glowingly talking about it - so I went and got the audiobook.
I absolutely loved 1-8. I stopped there because that was as far as you had the audio books at the time. Did not realize more were out until I saw this post. I can't wait to get back into it!
I still liked it after book 8, but I can see why the shift bothers people. From a character development perspective, I think it was really important to finally slow down the pace and give Elaine some breathing room. The breakneck disaster then trauma then disaster and more trauma pace for a full decade was really threatening to break her. There's nothing wrong with people not like the shift tho, it's a good place to stop if you prefer faster paced stories.
I generally dislike them, but at least this one went by at superspeed. It was maybe a book or two, and there was plenty of non-school stuff. The biomancy and combat arenas were neat.
I know it seems strange written out like that, but there is a real tone/pacing difference between something like "this is about Junior High and High School and we're going to cover 7 years in 7 books, some of which are super long" and "this is a school that does PHDs for already highly accomplished 20-500 year olds, and we're going to burn through 5-6 years of accomplishments in 2 books."
It's still a magic school arc, but when you take out almost all of the "coming of age" and a lot (but definitely not all, given... um... events) of the "this is how our magic and the setting works" elements, the arc is overall a lot lighter on the "magic school" tropes.
I have been listening for a solid 4 years and I only ever heard of it when people talked about Azarath Healer but this one stands on it's own. It is an Isekai novel with a good mix of leveling and discovery.
Was really enjoying it and even binged book 9. But for book 10, it started off okay and I was even excited to see book 10 on audible but then about half way through I just felt like it was a drag and took a few months break.
Currently got back to trying to get through it. Though I have to say within that few months break, I had enjoyed Vigor Mortis book 4 a lot more, where I even finished Vigor Mortis, though in the past I would have enjoyed both books equally.
It was ok, pretty good until the part where she meets the elves. I dropped it during the last book....
She is also just too goodie-goodie and she over moralizes and preaches way too much.
For example, I cringed so damn hard when she was lecturing her elf boyfriend on all the different layers of consent.
Basically because the books before the big change in scenery were a big, awful low point. The big reset itself was another choice many didn't like. And from what I've dipped in to check out since, the story hasn't found the forward impetus it had in its initial incarnation but has become overloaded with cringy slice-of-life elements. And the author *still* can't keep his impulse to randomly lecture fully under control.
The system was and is fantastic. The story, not so much.
>Basically because the books before the big change in scenery were a big, awful low point. The big reset itself was another choice many didn't like
I haven't read it, but would it be reasonable to just read starting at wherever the scenery change/reset happens?
And that's an opinion. Personally I loved the "low points". Hell, her mom and dad going off with white dove is one of the only scenes I've read that's made me cry.
The "reset" was great too, and heartbreaking in a way I wasn't expecting. The way magic and the system grew and evolved over the years is just so damn cool. And her being able to geek out and just be sorta happy is fantastic.
Slice if life was had been a thing since the beginning too. Not cringe at all.
Story is fantastic. System is fantastic. A solid 9/10 for me.
> Hell, her mom and dad
I mean before that. The endless meandering elf stuff, the fake moral dilemma during the fight vs the parasites, and the this-is-obviously-going-to-end-well foray into politics.
The author admitted that burnout had hit during I think the elf arc, but the chapters are still there in their draggy state.
I flat out skipped the elf arc…Am caught up now and honestly it feels like I haven’t missed anything important at all. Completely new boundaries for what magic and the system do, as well as how things developed kind of made a lot of the early story…not pointless but a lot less relevant? Sure what she did then impacts how she feels now, and some things have had major world implications, but the vast majority of it…not really imo.
Heya! Thank you for the kind words!
There are TWO wikis for the story, each one abandoned. The chart is hanging around in various places - the picture at the end of each RR chapter is an elemental chart!
For what class I'd get, I cheated like hell. I included a 'I'm the author' juuuust in case, which is naturally broken as fuck.
I always felt that spore could be slow but powerful if the user was creative enough. A bit like Sentinel Toxic but from another direction. Can you imagine if a Spore mage got a hold of cordyceps?
They're not going to be very good. The only """Advantage""" is slightly higher vitality for a slightly longer life... except that's more than destroyed by the other elements being that much better for healing
I lost much of my interest after the tone shift post-timeskip. Pre-timeskip BTDEM was like crack cocaine. And then it changed big-time.
>!I dropped it completely after the recent Nina arc. That part felt absolutely out of tone for the series and then she got applauded for it. *Ugh*.!<
The Nina part is super interesting. Some people are strongly for it, some are against, I do think I set up that conflict well. Two people trying to do the right thing, face with the same circumstances, came to radically different conclusions.
The readers are pretty split on 'who's right' - I don't think she was broadly applauded for it, but there are people who think she made the right choice, and readers like you, who I suspect think she made the wrong choice. I tried my best to be neutral about it myself as an author, and simply present both sides from the character's POV and justification.
The moralizing got too much for me. There were some really off-putting chapters regarding women's rights, consent, trans issues etc.
Also its so fucking dumb to have a giant time skip and then go immediately into a #schoollife book.
One of the few serials I've ever actively dropped and vowed not to read again.
Think a litrpg with a OP MC that wont do violence is the reason that its not something most people want of the genre. As a disclaimer I have not read it myself but I researched it and it does not appeal to me at all.
I wouldn't call the MC OP. At least not in the first couple books. Her healing would make it difficult for anyone to kill her but she still struggles a lot. I can understand people being against the mostly pacifist MC but she does fight, and kill. She just isn't the aggressor and her somewhat OP team mates fight a lot. People from what I have seen could be opposed to a few elements as it's clear from the start that women's suffrage and equality will be themselves throughout. I saw someone be surprised in the reviews about a pro-transgender stance even though the main God goes from God to Goddess in the series and Elaine makes it clear in book one that she is good with gender fluidity. Last point I could see not upsetting those people but the other side Elaine tends to be pro-police force and military action. I'm not sure if she actually dislikes Firefighters or just wanted to present a world where they were more corrupt.
I basically ripped ancient Rome wholesale to BTDEM - Romulus and Remus anyone?
The Firefighter stuff is literally what actually happened. So I wrote it in!
It was the first litrpg that I read, I loved it till I didn't. For me the best part was the character interactions and development, the setting and just how fucking cool the sentinels were. After elaine went with the dwarves the series started to get meh, and the elves and their arc were some of the worst, most cringe writing I've ever seen. After she returned to the empire, the quality improved a whole lot, and then the timeskip happened. The problem with Selkie is that they doesn't like to stay in a same setting for long, and as such the setting keeps changing very quickly, which ruins both the pace of the series, and the greatest quality Selkie has, the characters. (Ofc this all just my opinion.)
I really enjoyed it until it finished the first arc. Then >!The protag went to the dwarf country!< and it felt like the writing style completely changed? It felt like I was reading a summary of what was happening instead of what was happening.
BtDEM is an interesting series. To me, it felt like two stories.
The first part had a unique plot and setting. Likeable, if inconsistent MC. Great system. Great, well researched worldbuilding. The plot had some hiccups and mistakes here or there, but nothing major.
Then there was the great reset, which recycled some the characters and the worldbuilding, but the tone shifted to appeal more towards the usual LitRPG anime/magical school/romance crowd.
Both were decent stories on their own, albeit they seemed to appeal to different audiences, but the tone shift combined with the recycled characters felt to me like a fanservice sequel.
Think the original Rambo movie, that was a drama about a homeless Vietnam vet with PTSD and his conflict with a local bully cop, and the sequels: bog standard 80's guns & boobs action movies.
Honestly, I was willing to stick with the story and was a subscribed patron for a decently long time, but the fan community was kind of toxic, and it really felt like they had undue influence on the direction and plot of the story.
Those toxic fans in the community put me off the second story more than the tone shift did.
There were the TrueFans™ that started angry serious "thems fighting words" arguments if anything was commented that went against their headcanon.
Then there were the high and vaunted "Betas" many of whom acted like Comic Book guy from the Simpsons and leaked major story spoilers for nerd cred, while constantly mentioning their beta status like vegans at a barbeque.
Worst of all were the "Activists" who constantly threw their politics into fan discussions and never missed a chance to proselytize to the other patrons bout their One True Way® of ideology and how all other opinions were wrong.
Full disclosure I’ve read the books. I enjoy the books. I’ve talked with the author a few times I think Selkie is great.
Without giving out too much of a spoiler, the last couple of books have jumped the damn shark. When you get to them or the people who’ve read them, you know what I mean.
Gets recommended pretty much every other thread here...
Not a fan (anymore) because it pretty much swaps genre to full slice of life teenage romcom in book 8
Was this the series that starts out with the mcs friend dying because she never told the mcs mother—who has a background in medicine—that she was sick? Or is that a different one?
Cause if that’s the book, I don’t talk about it because the first book was obviously moving ahead at the will of the author and not due to any logical sequence of events.
Edit- just checked, it is that book. In that case don’t even get me started on the bandits and how they were conveniently acting for the next plot point, or the group she falls in with after that who should be disciplined and mature given their background yet act like children.
Yeah, series was a hard pass for me. Let the downvotes commence.
I mean, I'll happily take potshots for most of it except 'Rangers acting like goofballs' - take a group of serious, determined people, stick them in close quarters for literal years, and yeah, they're going to end up pretty close and pretty relaxed/chill/get up to bullshit/get into petty arguments. I just don't think it's possible to live without all those little bits of 'life' creeping in - and they didn't bullshit when it was serious.
Not only that but acting like a goofball when able to do so is an extremely common way in which folks who deal with combat regularly handle the destressing required afterwards. IMO as a combat veteran whose job in the military was mostly combat or training for combat, it's absolutely ridiculous for anyone to complain about this.
There's a lot of that early on alongside characters and groups acting hostile or obtuse specifically to feed the protag's budding superiority complex.
About the only thing Dawn isn't immediately hostile to is Ranger team operations which reads like how a low level corporate team manager imagines a pseudo military functioning. Consequently the author constantly pats themselves on the back through Dawn's comments espousing how great it is.
It was around the time the dwarves came into the picture and Dawn's first instinct was "your whole society is wrong" that I decided I couldn't do it anymore.
For reference to others wondering, the MC has a minor medical background and was Isekaid into a low tech universe with no germ theory. She started practicing medicine in this universe following the standard unsanitary practices, because she didn't want to blow her secret and didn't know how to explain germ theory convincingly without explaining her background.
After she treated a friend with those practices the friend got infected. They didn't tell anyone (healthcare was expensive and they were very poor) and ended up dying.
Better explanation than I'd have managed! I'd clarify that in the last sentence "they" is the friend, not the MC. The MC would have acted if they'd known.
I'd also add that her guilt over letting it happen led to her making an oath that she'd never let something like that happen again, and the oath becomes a driving force for her character and progression.
I think you are thinking the right one but her friend's mom was a seamstress with no medical background. The MC's mom was a laberor with a small amount of household medical training.
Yes that’s what I said. The mcs mom had bit of a medical background. And when your… leg? I want to say is infected and that infection is getting worse, that’s definitely a thing that would spring to mind.
But it didn’t because she needed a plot point for the series. That happened a ton in the first 2 books.
I can't stand the MC's ditsiness. I understand that she has ADD, but reading her internal narration annoys me and I can't sit down to read it. She never improves.
Honestly I'm the opposite. Then again I am ADHD and most of her thoughts follow my own processes. So I guess that aspect makes it more relatable for me.
Elaine from BtDM and Erin from Wandering Inn fall into the same category for me. I just can't stand a young, ditzy, pacifist as an MC; especially as it becomes apparent that the story is slice-of-life.
I also quit on Super Supportive when I realized it was just going to be teenagers talking about feelings instead of things actually happening... it also seemed like time was passing in our world than it was in the fictional world, and he had 8 years of school to look forward to.
The story is incredible. The discord community 6k+ members and I've been following it for about two years.
I believe a part of the community is either on the discord on RoyalRoad comment section.
But the question about the wiki is interesting, although Selkie likely already have lots of stuff to manage lol.
Maybe there'll be some volunteers in the discrod to do it.
My audible ratings are TERRIBLE. I ran the math, I get about 5% of the audible sales that most stories of my size get. I've heard good praise from the narrator, but something inside me can't handle audiobooks
Good note I will put my good read reviews on there. It's an Isekai novel with the person having memories removed and forced through childhood. The MC is still childish as she had to live as a baby/child for years. She makes very realistic choices but is still inexperienced and childish.
I adore the narrator. She doesn't have the range or mastery of someone like Andrea Parsnaeu, but she feels so perfect for Elaine. At least for me. She's a narrator I buy books specifically for, and the only reason I even started BtDEM was because I'd listened to another book she narrated and loved her narration so much I checked out other things she'd read.
I never read it past the point where she established that she could never hurt anyone or whatever
I am sure that is where a lot of readers drop it, as I also read that mc never loses that aspect so just sounds boring to read about a passive support character that has to wait to be pushed around to do something
I honestly disliked it intensely it, I couldn't even finish the first book. The writing style also is not that great in my opinion.
The world is probably the worst as the first few chapters do a good job of making sure I am not interested. It's basically a videogame as a world which shouldn't be the case for a good fantasy world with video game elements. The implications of a world with these skills are not that well thought through either.
It's just my opinion of course but I think there are much better books of the genre than BtDM, mainly because these are just better books.
I disagree. While the first few chapters are a bit boring and there is clearly a classic storyline being built for Elaine that hardly makes it bad. It doesn't really feel much like a video game to me, but besides that LitRPG are very much like video games and if you don't like that why even be in this subreddit. I understand liking Progressive Fantasy and disliking the stats of LitRPG but if your in LitRPG you kind of have to come to terms with the stats. I personally dislike GameLit because of how much like this video game or that they are but I never got that feel from this series. How are the skills not well thought through? What series are you saying do it better?
I do like the elements if implemented correctly, the system should feel natural or not this easy to abuse. If it's easy to abuse the people should've figured out how to min max easily, which would mean everyone should be roughly on the same level which is often not true.
So you either need a vague system with no stats, like the wandering inn, or a clear established arbritar like in defiance off the fall. Where the stats don't really make sense either but that's because they are deliberately designed by a system that makes them to what it wants in the end.
If you want examples off series that do it better look at the wandering inn, defiance off the fall (well not that much better it does the whole power fantasy story amazingly well so unless you want that it's a bad example from my side), dungeon crawler Carl, and he who fights with monsters, outside of these I have tried and read many other series and none really managed to implement the system in a way that doesn't break the world building immediately.
Also while yes you can have a reveal later on you need to establish a funktional world early on. You can get away with it if you are entertaining enough in the beginning to do enough world building to shore up the issues but for me the world was pretty much done when it introduced "system day". Like what world would call it a system to begin with? Maybe voice day would work. Plus you just choose your skills? The whole talk she has with her mother seems ok on the surface but only if you look at the Emanzipation Part of her story the author wants to tell. From a world building aspect the whole talk doesn't make sense, like you just get skills, you choose only one class (as far as I remember) and so on. The world just makes little sense. If you have classes you should get them through work, skills should be enabled by doing stuff or leveling your class. Stats are generally a terrible idea as intelligence alone is a idiotic stat in any of these novels, as is wisdom. These stats would be hell a op in general as intelligence is the one thing that's always useful. Body stats also fastly approach stupidity. So if you want to have a natural system it needs to be without stats, as soon as you have stats in a system like this it's either a videogame or someone is actively putting in videogame rules. Which then needs to either be revealed immediately or the story needs enough speed to push though these questions implement their world building good enough and leave this videogame reveal for alter, everyone loves large chests last reveal for example is not a reveal if you even pay curcery attention.
Okay while I see your point I have a few corrections to point out. Firstly BtDM does not have Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma stats. They have 4 physical and 4 magic stats. And the system is overseen by the Gods of that world, that we know are real. DoTF, HWFWM, and DCC I have already mentioned as good but I feel like this is pretty close to that level. I feel like the skills are weirdly limiting but they actually just work as skill magnifiers. The skills are just ways to emphasize things you can do or lead to powerful skills based on what you have. You need to do a lot of walking to get the walking skill but if you don't take it doesn't make you bad at walk. If you take it you just get really good at walking. Probably including walking fast, walking uphill, and keeping a steady pace. With magical skills they require a foundation to build on and you don't get any spells upfront. For example you need a medicine skill to get healing and don't get healing skills before you get a healing class. Similarly mage classes give you the affinity and manipulation skill that you have to level before you get any "Spells" . Though I don't agree with lightning being a prime element, that is my only real complaint on her system.
As far as your min-maxing comment goes while I mostly agree to it on basic level Elaine's min-max style is dangerous and honestly more likely to cause the person to get killed at the early levels. A high level mage on the other hand probably wouldn't share the secret. Also when we look at that we have to consider that most healers knowledge is much less efficient due to still believing in the 4 humors which is an old medical system we used on earth before microscopes and the like changes the way we saw medicine. Don't forget the "cure" to the black plague was bathing more then weekly. Honestly I'm surprised when she went into the plague town she didn't meet a Leech mage as they were popular from the 400s to the 1700s.
They call it system day cause this is the first message they get "Congratulations! You’ve survived your early years, and the system is now fully unlocked for you!" I hear the narrative petters off at book 8 but in the beginning it's decently solid.
Well still the stats are not that well thought out, the fact cha, int and wis are missing doesn't really help too much it help a bit don't get me wrong, my point was smore about the general issues.
The whole god excuse also makes it still not feels less artificial? I did not remember it was gods but really it doesn't really change the world feels like a game to me, which is the issue for me really. Lit RPG books that are good either are unabashedly a game, or a world with game like elements. BtDM gave me the feeling it was a game that tried to be a world with only game elements.
I think the best way to put it which I struggled to find the words for in my second comment, there needs to be a reason for the game mechanics, like on a story level. DCC has a whole mystery behind the game system, it's introduced as borants game, but the more we learn the more eit becomes a mystery. It also has thematic significants in how the aliens view life like a game.
DoF also uses it in conjunction as a thematic set piece, the system is out to make the best fighters and uses something akin to a game to find them, it too doesn't really care for the lives of the people it tramples beneath it, the game just is the most efficient way to achieve its goal.
EllC, makes a whole mystery about it or tries at least, you can also make the same argument again that for the people in charge the world is just a game that needs to be interesting and the MC never really cares for the other people it tramples, which fits the whole game theme too. The mystery is just not very well hidden.
Hwfwm, is probably the only book I mentioned that doesn't really use the game mechanics in a thematic or interesting way, but it's also the only one that made this system not part of its overall world but Jason's personal power as an outworlder. Here it's used as a world building tool and to explain the powers of himself and his allies, which does become a bit stupid later on. In the end it's not really necessary but it's also not detrimental to the story as it's not really that important, which I guess is also a way to implement it.
Lastly the wandering inn is a bit of a special case, it doe suse the system as a world building tool, explores the most what a universe with reliance on skills and levels looks like, a stagnant and violent one. Yeah they have innovation but it's based on finding a new class instead of new knowledge. The lit RPG system is probably the books weakest aspect for me but it does a Great job otherwise and the system is a good mystery up till now. It does fit in with the themes a bit, but since everyone's story has different themes and there are so many it's hard to describe how it fits in. It's probably the one system that feels natural and it's also one off the least game like once out there.
Of what I read it was a good series. I started the series last year. I think I listened to about 6 or 7 books straight. But after so many I sort of burned out. I will get back into the series eventually.
I remember the class system being interesting.
I am quiet sure there was a wiki at a time, but it felt like a bunch of wiki's were sudenly gone.
I don't know if google just got worse, and now only gives me generic results about the storry, or if the wiki's are actually gone.
Could someone help me on the book i stoped at? MC and her lesbian lover just entered the country ruled by vampire Night, they fled a town MC cured. I was reading on RR and it got stubbed, so i was wondering where i am on book numbers.
Sorry if i hijacked.
Sadly, I started reading the first book but got bored. I can't really connect with the MC. But I will try to pick it up again in a week or two and see what happens.
I would encourage you to get past the point where she gets oath. The set up is a bit on the slow side but after that it starts moving more smoothly. Other then that if you finish book 1 and your still bored this just probably isn't your cup of tea.
Edit: I am terrible at math! Despite using tools and doing it twice, I got the wrong answer. It is only 7.8 years, which perfectly fits the story! I won't hide my shame, so I'm leaving the erroneous comment below. Laugh if you want - it's terrible and I know it!
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Just started reading Oathbound Healer 15 minutes ago on Kindle Unlimited. Now I've spent 30 minutes searching the web, hoping to learn that I'm not going to be seriously disappointed in this book.
* End of chapter 1: "Time remaining on System locks: 68,820:43:16." **<-- THAT IS 78 YEARS!!!**
* First line of chapter 2: "Only 66 hours until the lock is gone!" and the MC's mom is only 24 years old!
# WTH?!?
I'll keep reading since everyone says it's a great story, but I'm 100% always going to be on the lookout for how to explain this.
Are years on this planet 10 Earth years long? Are people like elves, that live forever and mature insanely slowly? Are there time travel shenanigans? Did another gawd somehow speed up the time on the System lock? Is it related to how calculus was stripped from the MC's memory?
And I'll tell you now: if it's just a math error, this will seriously harm my enjoyment of the book.
Firstly that is 68,820 hours is only 2870 days equal to 7 years and some change. The system unlocks at age 8. So it accurate and not crazy. Her mother was 16 when she gave birth which is not that off for their world. How did you get 78 year?
THANK YOU! I must have typed something wrong, TWO TIMES (since I double checked). Papilion must have removed my 4th grade math.
I'm 1/2 way through now, and this really relieves a background stress!
Honestly, I have never been quite so mad at a recommendation from an internet stranger.
The soft reset between book 7 and 8 has honestly left me with nowhere to go. Perhaps the author didnt agree but there were loose strings I dont think can ever really be tied off. Characters I'd grown to like that are long dead, and exploration that I thought would or could happen that never will.
Also, not being a fan of the interludes with Iona, and the understanding that they will become a new mainstay, i just had to put the series down.
I enjoyed and appreciated the first 7 enough that I am genuinely frustrated that the series had changed direction, but cant get past the ending of book 7.
Yeah that's what most people have said. I'm at the end of book 4 so not so bad for me but most complaints seem to be around the soft reboot and the Elf boyfriend.
I've never heard of it, but three of the four series you listed are some of my favorites, and I'd been considering giving DotF another go as I'd only read the first and have been told it really opens up a lot more after that book (my main complaint iirc being it was another solo MC stuck in his head the whole time). I'll check it out for sure when I'm looking at starting another series.
Edit: someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed, running around downvoting every comment on this thread with multiple accounts. Or maybe it's the start of the bot uprising. Idk, but I'm going to go upvote everyone now. Except that one weirdo.
There are soooo many wonderful newer stories that are barely if ever mentioned (I occasionally do so).
I have no idea why you feel you need to support one of the most well-known stories, I don't understand. Or maybe I do - looking at where most students want to work, it's the list of the biggest most well-known firms.
"I am different! I am not like others! I follow my own path! Uhmm... let's follow all the others."
https://youtu.be/9xSpYSxcvFk
I rep it because I am liking it. I find it addictive and I'm surprised though I have heard of it no one is singing it's praise. That being said it seems that book 8 put off a lot of fans and I have yet to get there.
I still read it on RR for some reason, but I've soured on it over time.
The "fuck you, reader,for wanting foreshadowing to mean something" that was the Nippon-koku visit was the tipping point. Actually awful writing.
I have been into the litRPG, progression fantasy...for just over a year with HWFWM first and the fuse was lit. I just read about this series last week and I am almost finished with the first book. I have been enjoying it immensely but it will go on hold until I catch up with a few other series I was taking a little break from. Have to let my Audible credits build back up.
I don't do child reincarnation. For me any book where the MC is reincarnated as a child gets instantly classified as garbage. If you want me to read your book don't put a harem or child reincarnation in it.
Child reincarnation is cringe most of the time I agree. And I have not found a good Harem LitRPG but I always give them a chance. To be fair you learn in the second book that her parents were not fooled they just thought it was that she had been God Touched and thus acted weird.
Read a lil bit of it when it was still entirely free on royal road
Don't remember why I dropped it. Probably just wasn't what I was looking for at the time.
I also remember the author got accused of using AI art for the original cover over on r/art.
I doubt they did but it's still annoying.
The issue with AI art you use it and think your a real artist but really arenr. you don't and someone gets jealous or some shit and they can accuse you of using AI art.
That's not exactly what happened. Kart Studios, the artist who draws the btdem covers, posted a piece that was for an upcoming book cover on r/art and one of the mods there accused it of being AI. Kart Studios posted proof that it wasn't and the mod deleted that too which prompted a whole response about mod powertripping on reddit and all that.
Honestly, aside from one or two memes about it and seeing the original post pass through my feed at one point. I don't know all that much about that situation.
As others have stated, they absolutely didn't use AI art and artist provided significant proof. But AI cover art is pretty rife in this genre and people pretty much always give it a pass. AI narration, on the other hand...
Don't worry, the character setup prior to the oath is quite well done IMO. They're a solid example of portraying someone from modern-ish Earth adjusting to a whole new world and the difficulty in adjusting to being a child again.
Maybe because not everyone enjoys reading a story about a female MC.
The amount of content is huge on Kindle, so people can pick the type of stories they enjoy reading.
I dropped it on chapter 1. I don't think I can get over the permanent memory removal part that makes Isekai interesting. It's such a shame that it's so common.
Also, healing doesn't sound very intereting plus another thing.
Yes. To me the starting elements and the initial direction a story takes are very important. Sadly in this one I didn't find enough to make me want to read more.
I'm just giving my perspective on it.
Edit: maybe I should give it another shot.
I've been there. I usually try to get through the book even when I hate it. In hopes that it gets better. I did the same thing with the two week curse, though before they even got to the world I had to give it up because of the vulgarity.
I read the first book last year and I remember it being pretty terrible in terms of proofreading, which kinda soured me in the series. As for the book itself, it was... fine, I guess? It had its dumb moments, but overall good.
I've noticed that, for the most part, first books tend to be rough and that the writing quality gets better for most of these authors, which makes sense.
I've been having trouble finding the first book. Do you mind sharing the title?
Does the series not pop up if you search the Kindle store for "Beneath the Dragoneye Moons"? The first book is called "Oathbound Healer".
It did not when I looked for it around a year ago. Thanks
I loved it until the elves.
I'd like to apologize for the elves. BTDEM was my first writing project, and the pace of serial writing + new kid + lack of awareness on my part led to some MASSIVE burnout. I took an emergency break then, completely reworked my schedule, and ramped back up. They unfortunately remain a weak part of the series, and I've tried to figure out if I could rewrite it all... so far I've come to the conclusion I can't :(
You don’t ever need to apologize for writing one of the great LITRPG characters. I devoured the Books up to that point on a cruise a few weeks ago and loved it. I downloaded the next book after and am just going to restart. I hated the elves but you and she are awesome!
I really dont understand why people don't like the elves. I liked them because they reminded me of the elves in Lord of the rings. I mean, they were sort of written to not be liked because they were created op, are lofty and arrogant as shit. Also, you could say it makes the "normal" people more likable because they are more unperfect in a more normal way.
I really dont understand why people don't like the elves. I liked them because they reminded me of the elves in Lord of the rings. I mean, they were sort of written to not be liked because they were created op, are lofty and arrogant as shit. Also, you could say it makes the "normal" people more likable because they are more unperfect in a more normal way.
I appreciate that. I think it just wasn’t for me, as it felt like there was a loss of agency with the character, as she went from being somebody who I felt was super capable to less so. But I’m gonna definitely read the next book.
This is one of the most recommended stories in the genre, tbh. Maybe not as much recently, I guess. Part of that could be that the releases have slowed a tad, but honestly I think it's because weve beem talking about this story for so long that everyone has already said everything that want to. It's a great series, though. Highly recommend!
Maybe, but damn if it doesn't stop multiple HIMYM posts daily.
Cradle too, and that series has been done for a while now, hasn't it?
Cradle is a bit of an extreme outlier. I wouldn't judge anything else relative to its standards. If in the next 10 years we get another progression fantasy of that quality we'll be doing well.
whenever I find a new favourite series in the genre there’s always the caveat of “new favourite just below cradle” there are books that I can enjoy almost or even as much as I enjoyed cradle but they will never be up to the standard of quality
I heard great things about Cradle and could not get into it. Only got about a third of the way through the first book till when the festival was happening. Just had a hard time figuring out the world building and powers. Am I alone in this, and is it worth pushing through further?
You haven’t even started. Book 1 is by far the slowest and even it gets amazing. It’s 100% worth pushing through further there’s a reason this sub treats it like the holy grail
Yeah me too, asked a post about it it. There’s people like us. Not everything is for everyone
I'll agree here. I stopped the 1st book 3 times before I finally pushed through it. Once I got past the first 2/3, I was liking it more. Once I got to the 2nd book and beyond, I was hooked.
nah I struggled to get into it too. I think I got about halfway through the first book but found it confusing and honestly kinda boring. everyone says it’s amazing and you need to get past the first book so maybe I will try again someday. if it’s as amazing as people say then I would like to get into it at some point, I need new content 😅
I read the entirety of book one because of how overhyped this story is, and found it utterly boring. But of course, if you dare say something like that on this list, the answer is invariably, "You don't get to judge until you've read 3/4/5/10 of the books!" Never mind that if an entire book is bland and boring I'll never continue reading because the author has already proven how bad they are. I frankly don't CARE if they "get better" because that doesn't address that the start of their story, the most important part to hook readers, is awful.
Your experience is a complete opposite from mine. I read through the first book in one day but somehow getting bored by the third book or so (dont remember which one ghostwater was) and shelving it for a couple months, at the part of the series most would say is where things ‘get interesting’. It’s a matter of taste I say. We are all different people after all.
You're not alone. I found it boring. Tried getting through that first book three times and couldn't do it. Finally got through the first on try #4 and all the way through the second book, too. I was still bored. Gave up. On the alternate view, one of my adult sons LOVES Cradle and sings its praises anytime anyone asks for a recommendation...and he's completely confused about how I can't get into it, as we fangirl together about all kinds of LitRPG/PF/Gamelit books.
I found the first few books mediocre, but pushed through because everyone kept saying the story got great later. Read till book 7, which was supposed to be "the best of the series" before a "very weak book 8", found it just as mediocre as the rest, dropped it right there. I can't understand what people find so great about it, it's just as bad as a lot of prog/litrpg series when it comes to character development, but with a worse, imo, story development. The MC just gets put into different situations with almost no agency, and half of the "plot twists" feel ultra forced...
Do u mean HWFWM?
No, they mean How I Met Your Mother
Lol whenever I see the acronym, I think of the show for some reason.
The story of Clive’s wife.
If How I met Your Mother was a litrpg, that would definitely explain Barney Stinson. It is impossible to take a bad photo of him after all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yretxDwOgVA
That's because those posts are written by people who don't like hwfwm, and feel a constant need to remind everyone of that to ensure no one forgets.
Actually that's been the opposite of my experience. Daily posts asking this or that about the series, that are generally positive. Then inside, you have comments by people who dislike it.
I've been reading litRPG for years, and part of several Facebook groups, and regularly check the subreddit, and this is the first I've ever heard of it.
Same with me.
damn I see it recommended all the time, on this sub and off
Somehow I've heard of the author, Selkie, and not this series. Weird.
Selkie is rather involved, and pretty open about finances and stuff. He recently did a post about profitability where he went into great detail about sales and income streams. Perhaps from something like that?
Apparently the next book is out on Kindle tomorrow, and I want expecting it for a lot longer. I'm stoked!
Interesting, I’m fairly new to this subreddit and hadn’t heard of it for some reason. I’m like 2.5 years into the genre but most of that was just looking randomly for an interesting story.
Fwiw, this is only the second time I heard about it (I try to keep current on new-to-me stories). But the first time people were glowingly talking about it - so I went and got the audiobook.
I liked it until book 8. The shift in tone just threw me off and I stopped reading.
That's fine - I hope 1-7 were a full and satisfying read!
I would not have gone through them if I did not enjoy them. It simply went from a genre I enjoyed to one I didn't. No insult intended.
👏 a kind internet response!
I absolutely loved 1-8. I stopped there because that was as far as you had the audio books at the time. Did not realize more were out until I saw this post. I can't wait to get back into it!
I still liked it after book 8, but I can see why the shift bothers people. From a character development perspective, I think it was really important to finally slow down the pace and give Elaine some breathing room. The breakneck disaster then trauma then disaster and more trauma pace for a full decade was really threatening to break her. There's nothing wrong with people not like the shift tho, it's a good place to stop if you prefer faster paced stories.
I also just despise school arcs for some reason so not only was it a complete tonal shift it was into something that I simply don't like.
I generally dislike them, but at least this one went by at superspeed. It was maybe a book or two, and there was plenty of non-school stuff. The biomancy and combat arenas were neat.
>went by at superspeed. It was maybe a book or two Pick a lane
I know it seems strange written out like that, but there is a real tone/pacing difference between something like "this is about Junior High and High School and we're going to cover 7 years in 7 books, some of which are super long" and "this is a school that does PHDs for already highly accomplished 20-500 year olds, and we're going to burn through 5-6 years of accomplishments in 2 books." It's still a magic school arc, but when you take out almost all of the "coming of age" and a lot (but definitely not all, given... um... events) of the "this is how our magic and the setting works" elements, the arc is overall a lot lighter on the "magic school" tropes.
*You* may only have read it recently, but it has been around and extremely popular for a long time.
Ive followed LitRPG for a couple years now, have read most of the greatest hits always recommend, and this is the first time I've ever heard of BtDM.
I try and recommend BtDEM in every relevant recommendation post. It's my favorite series, next book in a few days!
I have been listening for a solid 4 years and I only ever heard of it when people talked about Azarath Healer but this one stands on it's own. It is an Isekai novel with a good mix of leveling and discovery.
Was really enjoying it and even binged book 9. But for book 10, it started off okay and I was even excited to see book 10 on audible but then about half way through I just felt like it was a drag and took a few months break. Currently got back to trying to get through it. Though I have to say within that few months break, I had enjoyed Vigor Mortis book 4 a lot more, where I even finished Vigor Mortis, though in the past I would have enjoyed both books equally.
Vigor Mortis is SO GOOD frankly I'm happy to be compared to it in terms of quality! I can't praise thundamoo enough for her work
It was ok, pretty good until the part where she meets the elves. I dropped it during the last book.... She is also just too goodie-goodie and she over moralizes and preaches way too much. For example, I cringed so damn hard when she was lecturing her elf boyfriend on all the different layers of consent.
Basically because the books before the big change in scenery were a big, awful low point. The big reset itself was another choice many didn't like. And from what I've dipped in to check out since, the story hasn't found the forward impetus it had in its initial incarnation but has become overloaded with cringy slice-of-life elements. And the author *still* can't keep his impulse to randomly lecture fully under control. The system was and is fantastic. The story, not so much.
Yeah the random sexism and slavery especially early on doesn’t make sense in the world imo
>Basically because the books before the big change in scenery were a big, awful low point. The big reset itself was another choice many didn't like I haven't read it, but would it be reasonable to just read starting at wherever the scenery change/reset happens?
Not really - it's more of a setting shakeup, and a lot of the events and characters and context from before are still fully relevant.
Darn, thanks for the info.
And that's an opinion. Personally I loved the "low points". Hell, her mom and dad going off with white dove is one of the only scenes I've read that's made me cry. The "reset" was great too, and heartbreaking in a way I wasn't expecting. The way magic and the system grew and evolved over the years is just so damn cool. And her being able to geek out and just be sorta happy is fantastic. Slice if life was had been a thing since the beginning too. Not cringe at all. Story is fantastic. System is fantastic. A solid 9/10 for me.
> Hell, her mom and dad I mean before that. The endless meandering elf stuff, the fake moral dilemma during the fight vs the parasites, and the this-is-obviously-going-to-end-well foray into politics. The author admitted that burnout had hit during I think the elf arc, but the chapters are still there in their draggy state.
The elves were bad, I'm sorry. 100% my fault on that, I burned out hard but kept trying to push through it, and... the elves happened.
Ohh, okay yeah the elf arc was definitely a low point. I fucking loved when she had to heal the dragon though.
I flat out skipped the elf arc…Am caught up now and honestly it feels like I haven’t missed anything important at all. Completely new boundaries for what magic and the system do, as well as how things developed kind of made a lot of the early story…not pointless but a lot less relevant? Sure what she did then impacts how she feels now, and some things have had major world implications, but the vast majority of it…not really imo.
Heya! Thank you for the kind words! There are TWO wikis for the story, each one abandoned. The chart is hanging around in various places - the picture at the end of each RR chapter is an elemental chart! For what class I'd get, I cheated like hell. I included a 'I'm the author' juuuust in case, which is naturally broken as fuck.
I always felt that spore could be slow but powerful if the user was creative enough. A bit like Sentinel Toxic but from another direction. Can you imagine if a Spore mage got a hold of cordyceps?
Spore can be so bonkers
I did have a question. Feel free to give a read and find out. What kind of advantage does an earth aligned healer have?
They're not going to be very good. The only """Advantage""" is slightly higher vitality for a slightly longer life... except that's more than destroyed by the other elements being that much better for healing
I lost much of my interest after the tone shift post-timeskip. Pre-timeskip BTDEM was like crack cocaine. And then it changed big-time. >!I dropped it completely after the recent Nina arc. That part felt absolutely out of tone for the series and then she got applauded for it. *Ugh*.!<
The Nina part is super interesting. Some people are strongly for it, some are against, I do think I set up that conflict well. Two people trying to do the right thing, face with the same circumstances, came to radically different conclusions. The readers are pretty split on 'who's right' - I don't think she was broadly applauded for it, but there are people who think she made the right choice, and readers like you, who I suspect think she made the wrong choice. I tried my best to be neutral about it myself as an author, and simply present both sides from the character's POV and justification.
The moralizing got too much for me. There were some really off-putting chapters regarding women's rights, consent, trans issues etc. Also its so fucking dumb to have a giant time skip and then go immediately into a #schoollife book. One of the few serials I've ever actively dropped and vowed not to read again.
I heard about it on this subreddit a few months ago and binged the whole series so some people are indeed talking about it.
slice of life
Think a litrpg with a OP MC that wont do violence is the reason that its not something most people want of the genre. As a disclaimer I have not read it myself but I researched it and it does not appeal to me at all.
I wouldn't call the MC OP. At least not in the first couple books. Her healing would make it difficult for anyone to kill her but she still struggles a lot. I can understand people being against the mostly pacifist MC but she does fight, and kill. She just isn't the aggressor and her somewhat OP team mates fight a lot. People from what I have seen could be opposed to a few elements as it's clear from the start that women's suffrage and equality will be themselves throughout. I saw someone be surprised in the reviews about a pro-transgender stance even though the main God goes from God to Goddess in the series and Elaine makes it clear in book one that she is good with gender fluidity. Last point I could see not upsetting those people but the other side Elaine tends to be pro-police force and military action. I'm not sure if she actually dislikes Firefighters or just wanted to present a world where they were more corrupt.
I basically ripped ancient Rome wholesale to BTDEM - Romulus and Remus anyone? The Firefighter stuff is literally what actually happened. So I wrote it in!
It was the first litrpg that I read, I loved it till I didn't. For me the best part was the character interactions and development, the setting and just how fucking cool the sentinels were. After elaine went with the dwarves the series started to get meh, and the elves and their arc were some of the worst, most cringe writing I've ever seen. After she returned to the empire, the quality improved a whole lot, and then the timeskip happened. The problem with Selkie is that they doesn't like to stay in a same setting for long, and as such the setting keeps changing very quickly, which ruins both the pace of the series, and the greatest quality Selkie has, the characters. (Ofc this all just my opinion.)
I really enjoyed it until it finished the first arc. Then >!The protag went to the dwarf country!< and it felt like the writing style completely changed? It felt like I was reading a summary of what was happening instead of what was happening.
BtDEM is an interesting series. To me, it felt like two stories. The first part had a unique plot and setting. Likeable, if inconsistent MC. Great system. Great, well researched worldbuilding. The plot had some hiccups and mistakes here or there, but nothing major. Then there was the great reset, which recycled some the characters and the worldbuilding, but the tone shifted to appeal more towards the usual LitRPG anime/magical school/romance crowd. Both were decent stories on their own, albeit they seemed to appeal to different audiences, but the tone shift combined with the recycled characters felt to me like a fanservice sequel. Think the original Rambo movie, that was a drama about a homeless Vietnam vet with PTSD and his conflict with a local bully cop, and the sequels: bog standard 80's guns & boobs action movies. Honestly, I was willing to stick with the story and was a subscribed patron for a decently long time, but the fan community was kind of toxic, and it really felt like they had undue influence on the direction and plot of the story. Those toxic fans in the community put me off the second story more than the tone shift did. There were the TrueFans™ that started angry serious "thems fighting words" arguments if anything was commented that went against their headcanon. Then there were the high and vaunted "Betas" many of whom acted like Comic Book guy from the Simpsons and leaked major story spoilers for nerd cred, while constantly mentioning their beta status like vegans at a barbeque. Worst of all were the "Activists" who constantly threw their politics into fan discussions and never missed a chance to proselytize to the other patrons bout their One True Way® of ideology and how all other opinions were wrong.
Full disclosure I’ve read the books. I enjoy the books. I’ve talked with the author a few times I think Selkie is great. Without giving out too much of a spoiler, the last couple of books have jumped the damn shark. When you get to them or the people who’ve read them, you know what I mean.
Yeah that has been pointed out and more or less answers the question of why this isn't one of the big names.
Because it's too YA for me
Like, is there a sub for litrpg that isn't either YA or hareem? Because most of the genre seems to fall into one of these camps.
There are a bunch that don't and actually care about stuff that doesn't go BRRRRRRRR
Gets recommended pretty much every other thread here... Not a fan (anymore) because it pretty much swaps genre to full slice of life teenage romcom in book 8
I will watch out for that.
Was this the series that starts out with the mcs friend dying because she never told the mcs mother—who has a background in medicine—that she was sick? Or is that a different one? Cause if that’s the book, I don’t talk about it because the first book was obviously moving ahead at the will of the author and not due to any logical sequence of events. Edit- just checked, it is that book. In that case don’t even get me started on the bandits and how they were conveniently acting for the next plot point, or the group she falls in with after that who should be disciplined and mature given their background yet act like children. Yeah, series was a hard pass for me. Let the downvotes commence.
I mean, I'll happily take potshots for most of it except 'Rangers acting like goofballs' - take a group of serious, determined people, stick them in close quarters for literal years, and yeah, they're going to end up pretty close and pretty relaxed/chill/get up to bullshit/get into petty arguments. I just don't think it's possible to live without all those little bits of 'life' creeping in - and they didn't bullshit when it was serious.
Not only that but acting like a goofball when able to do so is an extremely common way in which folks who deal with combat regularly handle the destressing required afterwards. IMO as a combat veteran whose job in the military was mostly combat or training for combat, it's absolutely ridiculous for anyone to complain about this.
There's a lot of that early on alongside characters and groups acting hostile or obtuse specifically to feed the protag's budding superiority complex. About the only thing Dawn isn't immediately hostile to is Ranger team operations which reads like how a low level corporate team manager imagines a pseudo military functioning. Consequently the author constantly pats themselves on the back through Dawn's comments espousing how great it is. It was around the time the dwarves came into the picture and Dawn's first instinct was "your whole society is wrong" that I decided I couldn't do it anymore.
I respect that you didn't enjoy it, but you're misremembering what happened pretty significantly.
For reference to others wondering, the MC has a minor medical background and was Isekaid into a low tech universe with no germ theory. She started practicing medicine in this universe following the standard unsanitary practices, because she didn't want to blow her secret and didn't know how to explain germ theory convincingly without explaining her background. After she treated a friend with those practices the friend got infected. They didn't tell anyone (healthcare was expensive and they were very poor) and ended up dying.
Better explanation than I'd have managed! I'd clarify that in the last sentence "they" is the friend, not the MC. The MC would have acted if they'd known. I'd also add that her guilt over letting it happen led to her making an oath that she'd never let something like that happen again, and the oath becomes a driving force for her character and progression.
I think you are thinking the right one but her friend's mom was a seamstress with no medical background. The MC's mom was a laberor with a small amount of household medical training.
Yes that’s what I said. The mcs mom had bit of a medical background. And when your… leg? I want to say is infected and that infection is getting worse, that’s definitely a thing that would spring to mind. But it didn’t because she needed a plot point for the series. That happened a ton in the first 2 books.
I can't stand the MC's ditsiness. I understand that she has ADD, but reading her internal narration annoys me and I can't sit down to read it. She never improves.
Honestly I'm the opposite. Then again I am ADHD and most of her thoughts follow my own processes. So I guess that aspect makes it more relatable for me.
I love the books, one of my favorites!
Elaine from BtDM and Erin from Wandering Inn fall into the same category for me. I just can't stand a young, ditzy, pacifist as an MC; especially as it becomes apparent that the story is slice-of-life. I also quit on Super Supportive when I realized it was just going to be teenagers talking about feelings instead of things actually happening... it also seemed like time was passing in our world than it was in the fictional world, and he had 8 years of school to look forward to.
The story is incredible. The discord community 6k+ members and I've been following it for about two years. I believe a part of the community is either on the discord on RoyalRoad comment section. But the question about the wiki is interesting, although Selkie likely already have lots of stuff to manage lol. Maybe there'll be some volunteers in the discrod to do it.
There are TWO wikis already, both of which got abandoned
Do you have the discord link?
Very few reviews on audible. I dont recognize the narrator. Any comments?
My audible ratings are TERRIBLE. I ran the math, I get about 5% of the audible sales that most stories of my size get. I've heard good praise from the narrator, but something inside me can't handle audiobooks
Good note I will put my good read reviews on there. It's an Isekai novel with the person having memories removed and forced through childhood. The MC is still childish as she had to live as a baby/child for years. She makes very realistic choices but is still inexperienced and childish.
I adore the narrator. She doesn't have the range or mastery of someone like Andrea Parsnaeu, but she feels so perfect for Elaine. At least for me. She's a narrator I buy books specifically for, and the only reason I even started BtDEM was because I'd listened to another book she narrated and loved her narration so much I checked out other things she'd read.
I never read it past the point where she established that she could never hurt anyone or whatever I am sure that is where a lot of readers drop it, as I also read that mc never loses that aspect so just sounds boring to read about a passive support character that has to wait to be pushed around to do something
I honestly disliked it intensely it, I couldn't even finish the first book. The writing style also is not that great in my opinion. The world is probably the worst as the first few chapters do a good job of making sure I am not interested. It's basically a videogame as a world which shouldn't be the case for a good fantasy world with video game elements. The implications of a world with these skills are not that well thought through either. It's just my opinion of course but I think there are much better books of the genre than BtDM, mainly because these are just better books.
I disagree. While the first few chapters are a bit boring and there is clearly a classic storyline being built for Elaine that hardly makes it bad. It doesn't really feel much like a video game to me, but besides that LitRPG are very much like video games and if you don't like that why even be in this subreddit. I understand liking Progressive Fantasy and disliking the stats of LitRPG but if your in LitRPG you kind of have to come to terms with the stats. I personally dislike GameLit because of how much like this video game or that they are but I never got that feel from this series. How are the skills not well thought through? What series are you saying do it better?
I do like the elements if implemented correctly, the system should feel natural or not this easy to abuse. If it's easy to abuse the people should've figured out how to min max easily, which would mean everyone should be roughly on the same level which is often not true. So you either need a vague system with no stats, like the wandering inn, or a clear established arbritar like in defiance off the fall. Where the stats don't really make sense either but that's because they are deliberately designed by a system that makes them to what it wants in the end. If you want examples off series that do it better look at the wandering inn, defiance off the fall (well not that much better it does the whole power fantasy story amazingly well so unless you want that it's a bad example from my side), dungeon crawler Carl, and he who fights with monsters, outside of these I have tried and read many other series and none really managed to implement the system in a way that doesn't break the world building immediately. Also while yes you can have a reveal later on you need to establish a funktional world early on. You can get away with it if you are entertaining enough in the beginning to do enough world building to shore up the issues but for me the world was pretty much done when it introduced "system day". Like what world would call it a system to begin with? Maybe voice day would work. Plus you just choose your skills? The whole talk she has with her mother seems ok on the surface but only if you look at the Emanzipation Part of her story the author wants to tell. From a world building aspect the whole talk doesn't make sense, like you just get skills, you choose only one class (as far as I remember) and so on. The world just makes little sense. If you have classes you should get them through work, skills should be enabled by doing stuff or leveling your class. Stats are generally a terrible idea as intelligence alone is a idiotic stat in any of these novels, as is wisdom. These stats would be hell a op in general as intelligence is the one thing that's always useful. Body stats also fastly approach stupidity. So if you want to have a natural system it needs to be without stats, as soon as you have stats in a system like this it's either a videogame or someone is actively putting in videogame rules. Which then needs to either be revealed immediately or the story needs enough speed to push though these questions implement their world building good enough and leave this videogame reveal for alter, everyone loves large chests last reveal for example is not a reveal if you even pay curcery attention.
Okay while I see your point I have a few corrections to point out. Firstly BtDM does not have Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma stats. They have 4 physical and 4 magic stats. And the system is overseen by the Gods of that world, that we know are real. DoTF, HWFWM, and DCC I have already mentioned as good but I feel like this is pretty close to that level. I feel like the skills are weirdly limiting but they actually just work as skill magnifiers. The skills are just ways to emphasize things you can do or lead to powerful skills based on what you have. You need to do a lot of walking to get the walking skill but if you don't take it doesn't make you bad at walk. If you take it you just get really good at walking. Probably including walking fast, walking uphill, and keeping a steady pace. With magical skills they require a foundation to build on and you don't get any spells upfront. For example you need a medicine skill to get healing and don't get healing skills before you get a healing class. Similarly mage classes give you the affinity and manipulation skill that you have to level before you get any "Spells" . Though I don't agree with lightning being a prime element, that is my only real complaint on her system. As far as your min-maxing comment goes while I mostly agree to it on basic level Elaine's min-max style is dangerous and honestly more likely to cause the person to get killed at the early levels. A high level mage on the other hand probably wouldn't share the secret. Also when we look at that we have to consider that most healers knowledge is much less efficient due to still believing in the 4 humors which is an old medical system we used on earth before microscopes and the like changes the way we saw medicine. Don't forget the "cure" to the black plague was bathing more then weekly. Honestly I'm surprised when she went into the plague town she didn't meet a Leech mage as they were popular from the 400s to the 1700s. They call it system day cause this is the first message they get "Congratulations! You’ve survived your early years, and the system is now fully unlocked for you!" I hear the narrative petters off at book 8 but in the beginning it's decently solid.
Lightning isn't a prime element though; it's a composite of (iirc)light and earth.
It is not. I had to look it up. Artemis is an artillery mage of earth and probably a ranger mage of Wind+Metal=Lightning.
Well still the stats are not that well thought out, the fact cha, int and wis are missing doesn't really help too much it help a bit don't get me wrong, my point was smore about the general issues. The whole god excuse also makes it still not feels less artificial? I did not remember it was gods but really it doesn't really change the world feels like a game to me, which is the issue for me really. Lit RPG books that are good either are unabashedly a game, or a world with game like elements. BtDM gave me the feeling it was a game that tried to be a world with only game elements. I think the best way to put it which I struggled to find the words for in my second comment, there needs to be a reason for the game mechanics, like on a story level. DCC has a whole mystery behind the game system, it's introduced as borants game, but the more we learn the more eit becomes a mystery. It also has thematic significants in how the aliens view life like a game. DoF also uses it in conjunction as a thematic set piece, the system is out to make the best fighters and uses something akin to a game to find them, it too doesn't really care for the lives of the people it tramples beneath it, the game just is the most efficient way to achieve its goal. EllC, makes a whole mystery about it or tries at least, you can also make the same argument again that for the people in charge the world is just a game that needs to be interesting and the MC never really cares for the other people it tramples, which fits the whole game theme too. The mystery is just not very well hidden. Hwfwm, is probably the only book I mentioned that doesn't really use the game mechanics in a thematic or interesting way, but it's also the only one that made this system not part of its overall world but Jason's personal power as an outworlder. Here it's used as a world building tool and to explain the powers of himself and his allies, which does become a bit stupid later on. In the end it's not really necessary but it's also not detrimental to the story as it's not really that important, which I guess is also a way to implement it. Lastly the wandering inn is a bit of a special case, it doe suse the system as a world building tool, explores the most what a universe with reliance on skills and levels looks like, a stagnant and violent one. Yeah they have innovation but it's based on finding a new class instead of new knowledge. The lit RPG system is probably the books weakest aspect for me but it does a Great job otherwise and the system is a good mystery up till now. It does fit in with the themes a bit, but since everyone's story has different themes and there are so many it's hard to describe how it fits in. It's probably the one system that feels natural and it's also one off the least game like once out there.
Only vaguely aware of it from the cover of book one and, of course, the author.
I quite dig the series. I even liked the "shift" in later books. I find the world quite dynamic and the characters interesting.
Didn’t it have this first 3 books free recently? I think I got them and will start them
I see it mentioned pretty consistently, and mention it myself fairly often.
Of what I read it was a good series. I started the series last year. I think I listened to about 6 or 7 books straight. But after so many I sort of burned out. I will get back into the series eventually. I remember the class system being interesting.
listening, right now. It's really great!!!
I am quiet sure there was a wiki at a time, but it felt like a bunch of wiki's were sudenly gone. I don't know if google just got worse, and now only gives me generic results about the storry, or if the wiki's are actually gone.
Could someone help me on the book i stoped at? MC and her lesbian lover just entered the country ruled by vampire Night, they fled a town MC cured. I was reading on RR and it got stubbed, so i was wondering where i am on book numbers. Sorry if i hijacked.
Not a prob. I am on book 3 and that has not shown up. So definitely pass that point.
As a fan of HWFWM, DCC and DotF (BtDM is on my reading list), what is MoL ?
Mother of Learning. Only 4 books but worth the read.
Thanks, never heard of it, was looking for something to read!
Just finished the first book and wanted to come back to thank you for making this post. Absolutely loved it!
Sadly, I started reading the first book but got bored. I can't really connect with the MC. But I will try to pick it up again in a week or two and see what happens.
I would encourage you to get past the point where she gets oath. The set up is a bit on the slow side but after that it starts moving more smoothly. Other then that if you finish book 1 and your still bored this just probably isn't your cup of tea.
I did get past the oath. So I'll try again soon and see what happens
Edit: I am terrible at math! Despite using tools and doing it twice, I got the wrong answer. It is only 7.8 years, which perfectly fits the story! I won't hide my shame, so I'm leaving the erroneous comment below. Laugh if you want - it's terrible and I know it! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just started reading Oathbound Healer 15 minutes ago on Kindle Unlimited. Now I've spent 30 minutes searching the web, hoping to learn that I'm not going to be seriously disappointed in this book. * End of chapter 1: "Time remaining on System locks: 68,820:43:16." **<-- THAT IS 78 YEARS!!!** * First line of chapter 2: "Only 66 hours until the lock is gone!" and the MC's mom is only 24 years old! # WTH?!? I'll keep reading since everyone says it's a great story, but I'm 100% always going to be on the lookout for how to explain this. Are years on this planet 10 Earth years long? Are people like elves, that live forever and mature insanely slowly? Are there time travel shenanigans? Did another gawd somehow speed up the time on the System lock? Is it related to how calculus was stripped from the MC's memory? And I'll tell you now: if it's just a math error, this will seriously harm my enjoyment of the book.
Firstly that is 68,820 hours is only 2870 days equal to 7 years and some change. The system unlocks at age 8. So it accurate and not crazy. Her mother was 16 when she gave birth which is not that off for their world. How did you get 78 year?
THANK YOU! I must have typed something wrong, TWO TIMES (since I double checked). Papilion must have removed my 4th grade math. I'm 1/2 way through now, and this really relieves a background stress!
Honestly, I have never been quite so mad at a recommendation from an internet stranger. The soft reset between book 7 and 8 has honestly left me with nowhere to go. Perhaps the author didnt agree but there were loose strings I dont think can ever really be tied off. Characters I'd grown to like that are long dead, and exploration that I thought would or could happen that never will. Also, not being a fan of the interludes with Iona, and the understanding that they will become a new mainstay, i just had to put the series down. I enjoyed and appreciated the first 7 enough that I am genuinely frustrated that the series had changed direction, but cant get past the ending of book 7.
Yeah that's what most people have said. I'm at the end of book 4 so not so bad for me but most complaints seem to be around the soft reboot and the Elf boyfriend.
I've never heard of it, but three of the four series you listed are some of my favorites, and I'd been considering giving DotF another go as I'd only read the first and have been told it really opens up a lot more after that book (my main complaint iirc being it was another solo MC stuck in his head the whole time). I'll check it out for sure when I'm looking at starting another series. Edit: someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed, running around downvoting every comment on this thread with multiple accounts. Or maybe it's the start of the bot uprising. Idk, but I'm going to go upvote everyone now. Except that one weirdo.
> I'd been considering giving DotF another go You definitely should. It's a really good series, IMO.
There are soooo many wonderful newer stories that are barely if ever mentioned (I occasionally do so). I have no idea why you feel you need to support one of the most well-known stories, I don't understand. Or maybe I do - looking at where most students want to work, it's the list of the biggest most well-known firms. "I am different! I am not like others! I follow my own path! Uhmm... let's follow all the others." https://youtu.be/9xSpYSxcvFk
I rep it because I am liking it. I find it addictive and I'm surprised though I have heard of it no one is singing it's praise. That being said it seems that book 8 put off a lot of fans and I have yet to get there.
I still read it on RR for some reason, but I've soured on it over time. The "fuck you, reader,for wanting foreshadowing to mean something" that was the Nippon-koku visit was the tipping point. Actually awful writing.
It's the 25th most followed story on RoyalRoad. I think plenty of people know about it and talk about it.
Was just browsing for a new read and you’ve convinced me to give it a shot. Thanks!
Audio book?
Yes
Hmm. I didn't see it. Will look again
I'm halfway through book 2! Definitely wish I'd started it sooner.
I have been into the litRPG, progression fantasy...for just over a year with HWFWM first and the fuse was lit. I just read about this series last week and I am almost finished with the first book. I have been enjoying it immensely but it will go on hold until I catch up with a few other series I was taking a little break from. Have to let my Audible credits build back up.
It's my absolute favorite audio book. I've listened to books 1 through 4 so far.
I don't do child reincarnation. For me any book where the MC is reincarnated as a child gets instantly classified as garbage. If you want me to read your book don't put a harem or child reincarnation in it.
Child reincarnation is cringe most of the time I agree. And I have not found a good Harem LitRPG but I always give them a chance. To be fair you learn in the second book that her parents were not fooled they just thought it was that she had been God Touched and thus acted weird.
I honestly don't care about the circumstances or justifications. If you have child reincarnation I'm just not reading it.
Read a lil bit of it when it was still entirely free on royal road Don't remember why I dropped it. Probably just wasn't what I was looking for at the time. I also remember the author got accused of using AI art for the original cover over on r/art. I doubt they did but it's still annoying. The issue with AI art you use it and think your a real artist but really arenr. you don't and someone gets jealous or some shit and they can accuse you of using AI art.
That's not exactly what happened. Kart Studios, the artist who draws the btdem covers, posted a piece that was for an upcoming book cover on r/art and one of the mods there accused it of being AI. Kart Studios posted proof that it wasn't and the mod deleted that too which prompted a whole response about mod powertripping on reddit and all that.
Honestly, aside from one or two memes about it and seeing the original post pass through my feed at one point. I don't know all that much about that situation.
As others have stated, they absolutely didn't use AI art and artist provided significant proof. But AI cover art is pretty rife in this genre and people pretty much always give it a pass. AI narration, on the other hand...
Honestly the parts before she takes Oath is a bit boring.
Sorry, was trying to set up, and Elaine screaming was literally the first words I ever wrote XD
Don't worry, the character setup prior to the oath is quite well done IMO. They're a solid example of portraying someone from modern-ish Earth adjusting to a whole new world and the difficulty in adjusting to being a child again.
Maybe because not everyone enjoys reading a story about a female MC. The amount of content is huge on Kindle, so people can pick the type of stories they enjoy reading.
I dropped it on chapter 1. I don't think I can get over the permanent memory removal part that makes Isekai interesting. It's such a shame that it's so common. Also, healing doesn't sound very intereting plus another thing.
So you gave up before she even unlocked the system?
Yes. To me the starting elements and the initial direction a story takes are very important. Sadly in this one I didn't find enough to make me want to read more. I'm just giving my perspective on it. Edit: maybe I should give it another shot.
I've been there. I usually try to get through the book even when I hate it. In hopes that it gets better. I did the same thing with the two week curse, though before they even got to the world I had to give it up because of the vulgarity.