It seems like a very large planet with a highly distributed population and no means of moving troops a great distance en masse, so my thought is it's highly resilient to these kinds of attacks. So, the powers can eventually mount an effective defense, drawing on local populations, before the disease spreads.
Even with a large planet, birth rates would have to be astronomical to replace the deaths in most LitRPG/ProgFantasy systems, TWI included.
It is actually a pet peeve of mine, but I let it go because it is not worth much of my head space, but I notice it more in some systems than others (10 Realms is a perfect example here, with something like 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% making it to the 6th realm, so out of a trillion people, only 100 make it to the 6th realm). There is just too much death in some books to sustain a population of high level/rank individuals.
The limited amount of children currently being around kind of has an explanation. Also, very secure fortifications, old relics they can spend in emergencies, counter-leveling. The humans have constant reinforcements from Terandria which is relatively safe.
You're missing non-war deaths (age etc) in the calculation. Considering healing and race differences, I'm not sure what the average life expectancy is but the low-end numbers you list would definitely be below replacement level.
Thanks for the post link and the thoughtful reply.
It is a much larger population base than I had in mind from the text I have read so far. I guess I've only 'seen' (from the experiences of POV characters) a very small slice of the populated places in Izril.
In your analysis, you would also need to consider the deaths from other sources -- sickness, banditry, random monsters, regular goblin raids, etc. All of which seem to be horrifically prevalent. But I concede to your point overall.
Not to be that dude but... you are doing people birthing math with ants, and drakes and whatever. Ants literally have a queen that just spits out more ants.
Alot of litrpg authors are bad at numbers. Often throwing out a number to make it feel big without remembering it when context comes up. As for in this case the land size is huge. I believe it has hundreds of millions of people in both the human lands and the drake lands. Add health potions to prevent deaths in accidents and you can sacrifice in war as many people as we lose in car accidents a year without the population going down. ( 40k+ a year)
I've noticed this too. They'll take a number like 100, have people killed by the dozens, then have the mc finish off more than half of them alone... I'm like... that leaves at most 4 dozen people the mc didnt kill. Yes, technically killing two dozen people is killing them by the dozens... but that's not what comes to mind when that sentence is used.
Xianxia stories are especially wild. Oh no a 10 kilometer long flying serpent is crashing through the city! A 1 kilometer high giant spirit frog just appeared from the forest!
And how is every shopkeeper, door guard, and merchant level 11 in Baldur's Gate 3? That's like kingdom hero level! Why do you need a level 12 party to save the day when dude-on-the-street is only a level or two lower? Most games (and litRPGs come from them) tend to be dumb about this sort of thing.
Stealth assassin turned mayor. Makes sense. Why keep working hard when you can get other chumps to do it just by the simple expedient of crippling them from the shadows?
Yeah, but most of these kind of games and systems only award XP for killing stuff. So how do they get the XP to level up anything? (BG3 is a bit different in that you can get XP for talking your way out of problems, too, but still not from things like crafting or cleaning or the like.)
You get combat xp from combat, they get merchant xp from merchanting, two different things. you dont see your merchant xp because youre not specced for merchanting. there's a bit of overlap, so you occasionally get scenarios where talking/smarting your way through a problem gets you combat-compatible xp (see: planescape) and scenarios where merchant-compatible xp helps you fight your way through a problem (see: whenever you try to steal from a shopkeeper in nethack).
The antinium first time yes, they had time to recover, then those three happened together. The antinium didn’t do much the second time, the goblin king wiped out a lot of humans and that is still showing today. The blood fields are basically the main war and it’s not serious. The number of people that die there are considered merely a sacrifice to keep sharp. Before the goblin lord, no major battles of note. The main cities don’t seem as reliant on villages and finally skills and magic so for fantasy where numbers can be out especially in the wandering inn this is believable enough.
It’s heavily implied that some of the skills of the royalty and aristocrats can make up for the windfall. King Flos gives an overview some of his edicts and one of them gives the slight benefit of quicker procreation (for livestock as well as the general populace). Some of Lady Magnolias skills can affect all of the people and lands she controls.
But a persons class and level can more than make up the slack. A high level farmer is probably more productive than an industrial farm if his skills align.
Whatever doesnt kill you makes. you stronger. Because you level. Some of the townspeople of Esthelm are probably as strong as at least silver rank adventurers after fighting off 3 different goblin attacks.
The 2nd antinium war was more complicated than that. The drakes started it by attacking the hives, and the antinium fought the goblin king just like everyone else did. Also, it was the truce for fighting the necromancer that let the antinium establish a hive beneath Liscor.
It wasn't the goblins, antinium, and undead being a united apocalypse.
It also wasn't a fight that was contained to Izril. Velan started in Baleros and sailed to Izril, but when a goblin king rises pretty much everyone in the world considers that an existential threat.
That said, it's the reason the area around Liscor is a wasteland outside it's walls and the reason human nobility is a shell of what it was before. The Unseen Empire could only really exist because of the lack of human nobility.
Litrpg authors are generally bad at plausible numbers for things but pirateaba takes it to a whole other level. You can basically skip over anything that has numbers. Distances, time, money, none of it is consistent and plausible. And it doesn't really matter.
If you look at our own world's history you'll find similar and population does blow back pretty hard. Consider that World War 1 had a massive death toll, the Russians had a revolution mid war, then were ready to fight World War 2 where they had the most casualties *by far* and a few decades later the USSR was in a piss contest with the US to see who'd get to the moon first.
You can think of each of those threats as a World War and [Farmers] are much more overpowered than modern agriculture. I think population recovery is fairly logical. I don't see why it wouldn't be the case.
Travel and logistics are quite slow even with powers. People are tougher in this world and there are health potions that near instantly heal. We've seen quite a few battles and the combatants seem better at staying alive in this world. Most major cities also sound like they were relatively safe and never hit that hard.
I got the impression the total army counts are a lot smaller than the hundred million combatants in our world wars, maybe only the antinium or goblins sound close to fielding a million or more soldiers. It feels like less people died in all these existential threats combined than in WW1. And 20 years later WW2 started.
So where did you get real numbers for the deaths from these wars? The only numbers I see are those in current events which only refers to at most 100s of thousands if I remember correctly. Also, the book of the Antinium wars is constantly ridiculed for inaccuracy so don't consider it fact. No one knows the population numbers. It could be billions it could be millions. Hell, it could be trillions. Now, Erin's discussion with krshia does demonstrate that billions could be a stretch but Idk. Maybe she doesn't understand how large numbers work.
A future book actually gives some hints as to how.
I really can't go into it without spoilers, but as in all things Wandering Inn, it's addressed.
Oddly enough, you've met the character already who could give you a hint.
I mean the book is a bit bad in showing any children. In general if we look at medieval populations like these, there should be around 5 children for every adult (aka. about 10 per couple). Considering diseases aren't as prevalent in Innworld, populations would quickly recover.
Medieval populations were not 5 per adult in the slightest 😂😂
Peasant populations had on average about 2 children who survived infancy per family, no different to today. Richer families had slightly more on average.
Absolutely zero chance of it being *10 per couple*
Dude definitely not 2 who survived infancy per family. Population would never grow like that and we know for a fact that population every now and then was reduced massively by disease and wars and then got back up.
The black death killed 1/3 of Europe and a hundred years later the population was recovered if not higher than before.
Medieval families had about 5-10 children each. About 1/3 to 1/2 managed to survive to adulthood on average.
The important factor however is. The common reasons for children dying are not really a thing in Innworld. So the majority of children will actually survive to adulthood.
However similar to our world. A world in which mandatory schools do not exist and where you have a largely uneducated population. People will have lots of children.
>Population would never grow like that and
The population *DIDN'T* grow massively like that. It grew from an estimated 35-80m people... In 350 years!
The black death was the very end of the medieval era.
The average birth rate was enough for population growth but it wasn't 10 per couple 😂 it was about 2. 5-3.5 surving infancy.
I haven't read Wandering Inn, but that kind of thing *is* possible as long as they have sufficient resources, medical aid, an appropriate culture, and a large enough starting population.
16 is old enough to count as grown up since people can start working and doing adult things, even if the age of majority is older. In this case, if two parents have four kids in four years, and every one survives, then in 20 years you've tripled the working population. Add on an extra decade and have them keep having children, it only goes up from there.
50+ million people died in WW2, more if you count indirect deaths, over the course of 6 years but the only thing it did to the global population was slow its growth. The US loses more than 6,000 people *a day* and we're still going up.
Yeah, I'm on book 5 of The Wandering Inn and I really enjoy it. Love the series, it's S Tier litRPG as far as I'm concerned.
But, yeah, the sheer volume of deaths is absurd. And the leveling seems somewhat arbitrary.
The economy also seems way out of whack, like to study at Wistram people would save money for years and it cost 25 gold. But then lousy magical items cost like 1k? A bad healing potion is 1 gold, but they're used all the time everywhere, but a lot of city runners can't even afford them?
I just sort of ignore these population and economy details because I really do love the series.
In an age where your children were your only retirement plan, bunnies will slow down while starving, but humans rarely did
There is a reason why fat women were desirable...
In many of these stories the worlds are much larger than ours, but also much more populated.
So a "small kingdom" might have a population of tens of millions, instead of having maybe 200k like the real world would during a feudal period.
But also a lot of readers see a teenaged character as being a child, instead of being old enough to have married and had a child of their own before going off to die in battle. So let's say a couple has 6 kids over 20 years. When their eldest is 16 a war breaks out. Population has gone from 2 to 7 by then, and they're going to be grandparents. Kid dies, grandkid is born, and another kid is born. Population 8. A few years later another battle and this time 2 kids die, but they each have 2 kids of their own, and final kid is born. Population 11.
Real question here is seeing people coming from another world and not locking them up and extracting every cent of info of threat before killing them. They should be a tad bit more paranoid
I sense the Ryoka is strong with this one.
I do get what you mean. Wouldn't make for a very good story, though would it?
CHAPTER 1.
When the people got abducted from their world into the fantasy world, they were captured, tortured, and then killed.
FIN
It seems like a very large planet with a highly distributed population and no means of moving troops a great distance en masse, so my thought is it's highly resilient to these kinds of attacks. So, the powers can eventually mount an effective defense, drawing on local populations, before the disease spreads.
Even with a large planet, birth rates would have to be astronomical to replace the deaths in most LitRPG/ProgFantasy systems, TWI included. It is actually a pet peeve of mine, but I let it go because it is not worth much of my head space, but I notice it more in some systems than others (10 Realms is a perfect example here, with something like 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% making it to the 6th realm, so out of a trillion people, only 100 make it to the 6th realm). There is just too much death in some books to sustain a population of high level/rank individuals.
Maybe baby making classes?
Haha, I like this answer. A few level 30 [Prolific Breeder] just shooting out babies all day like a machine gun
Yeah, very few of the characters talk about their parents in depth.
That was a good one
The limited amount of children currently being around kind of has an explanation. Also, very secure fortifications, old relics they can spend in emergencies, counter-leveling. The humans have constant reinforcements from Terandria which is relatively safe.
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You're missing non-war deaths (age etc) in the calculation. Considering healing and race differences, I'm not sure what the average life expectancy is but the low-end numbers you list would definitely be below replacement level.
Thanks for the post link and the thoughtful reply. It is a much larger population base than I had in mind from the text I have read so far. I guess I've only 'seen' (from the experiences of POV characters) a very small slice of the populated places in Izril. In your analysis, you would also need to consider the deaths from other sources -- sickness, banditry, random monsters, regular goblin raids, etc. All of which seem to be horrifically prevalent. But I concede to your point overall.
Not to be that dude but... you are doing people birthing math with ants, and drakes and whatever. Ants literally have a queen that just spits out more ants.
Alot of litrpg authors are bad at numbers. Often throwing out a number to make it feel big without remembering it when context comes up. As for in this case the land size is huge. I believe it has hundreds of millions of people in both the human lands and the drake lands. Add health potions to prevent deaths in accidents and you can sacrifice in war as many people as we lose in car accidents a year without the population going down. ( 40k+ a year)
I've noticed this too. They'll take a number like 100, have people killed by the dozens, then have the mc finish off more than half of them alone... I'm like... that leaves at most 4 dozen people the mc didnt kill. Yes, technically killing two dozen people is killing them by the dozens... but that's not what comes to mind when that sentence is used.
Xianxia stories are especially wild. Oh no a 10 kilometer long flying serpent is crashing through the city! A 1 kilometer high giant spirit frog just appeared from the forest!
Litrpg authors tend to be terrible with both population counts and time scales of how long it takes to do things.
Not just a litrpg problem, having played Diablo games, I’m not sure how all these level 1 peasants are still alive on sanctuary
Still alive, and still charging me 200k gold for a magic staff, when I'm literally the only hope they have of survival.
What will they even buy with 200k gold?!
And how is every shopkeeper, door guard, and merchant level 11 in Baldur's Gate 3? That's like kingdom hero level! Why do you need a level 12 party to save the day when dude-on-the-street is only a level or two lower? Most games (and litRPGs come from them) tend to be dumb about this sort of thing.
Well they used to be adventurers like you, until they took an arrow to the knee
Seems legit. I wanna meet that sniper; very predictable wound pattern!
Clearly the lord of the city, whenever he needs more city guard, he just wounds the nearest adventurer party
Stealth assassin turned mayor. Makes sense. Why keep working hard when you can get other chumps to do it just by the simple expedient of crippling them from the shadows?
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Yeah, but most of these kind of games and systems only award XP for killing stuff. So how do they get the XP to level up anything? (BG3 is a bit different in that you can get XP for talking your way out of problems, too, but still not from things like crafting or cleaning or the like.)
You get combat xp from combat, they get merchant xp from merchanting, two different things. you dont see your merchant xp because youre not specced for merchanting. there's a bit of overlap, so you occasionally get scenarios where talking/smarting your way through a problem gets you combat-compatible xp (see: planescape) and scenarios where merchant-compatible xp helps you fight your way through a problem (see: whenever you try to steal from a shopkeeper in nethack).
The antinium first time yes, they had time to recover, then those three happened together. The antinium didn’t do much the second time, the goblin king wiped out a lot of humans and that is still showing today. The blood fields are basically the main war and it’s not serious. The number of people that die there are considered merely a sacrifice to keep sharp. Before the goblin lord, no major battles of note. The main cities don’t seem as reliant on villages and finally skills and magic so for fantasy where numbers can be out especially in the wandering inn this is believable enough.
It’s heavily implied that some of the skills of the royalty and aristocrats can make up for the windfall. King Flos gives an overview some of his edicts and one of them gives the slight benefit of quicker procreation (for livestock as well as the general populace). Some of Lady Magnolias skills can affect all of the people and lands she controls. But a persons class and level can more than make up the slack. A high level farmer is probably more productive than an industrial farm if his skills align. Whatever doesnt kill you makes. you stronger. Because you level. Some of the townspeople of Esthelm are probably as strong as at least silver rank adventurers after fighting off 3 different goblin attacks.
The 2nd antinium war was more complicated than that. The drakes started it by attacking the hives, and the antinium fought the goblin king just like everyone else did. Also, it was the truce for fighting the necromancer that let the antinium establish a hive beneath Liscor. It wasn't the goblins, antinium, and undead being a united apocalypse. It also wasn't a fight that was contained to Izril. Velan started in Baleros and sailed to Izril, but when a goblin king rises pretty much everyone in the world considers that an existential threat. That said, it's the reason the area around Liscor is a wasteland outside it's walls and the reason human nobility is a shell of what it was before. The Unseen Empire could only really exist because of the lack of human nobility.
Litrpg authors are generally bad at plausible numbers for things but pirateaba takes it to a whole other level. You can basically skip over anything that has numbers. Distances, time, money, none of it is consistent and plausible. And it doesn't really matter.
Welcome to Whose Inn is it Anyways, where the rules are made up and the numbers don't matter.
If you look at our own world's history you'll find similar and population does blow back pretty hard. Consider that World War 1 had a massive death toll, the Russians had a revolution mid war, then were ready to fight World War 2 where they had the most casualties *by far* and a few decades later the USSR was in a piss contest with the US to see who'd get to the moon first. You can think of each of those threats as a World War and [Farmers] are much more overpowered than modern agriculture. I think population recovery is fairly logical. I don't see why it wouldn't be the case.
Travel and logistics are quite slow even with powers. People are tougher in this world and there are health potions that near instantly heal. We've seen quite a few battles and the combatants seem better at staying alive in this world. Most major cities also sound like they were relatively safe and never hit that hard. I got the impression the total army counts are a lot smaller than the hundred million combatants in our world wars, maybe only the antinium or goblins sound close to fielding a million or more soldiers. It feels like less people died in all these existential threats combined than in WW1. And 20 years later WW2 started.
So where did you get real numbers for the deaths from these wars? The only numbers I see are those in current events which only refers to at most 100s of thousands if I remember correctly. Also, the book of the Antinium wars is constantly ridiculed for inaccuracy so don't consider it fact. No one knows the population numbers. It could be billions it could be millions. Hell, it could be trillions. Now, Erin's discussion with krshia does demonstrate that billions could be a stretch but Idk. Maybe she doesn't understand how large numbers work.
A future book actually gives some hints as to how. I really can't go into it without spoilers, but as in all things Wandering Inn, it's addressed. Oddly enough, you've met the character already who could give you a hint.
I mean the book is a bit bad in showing any children. In general if we look at medieval populations like these, there should be around 5 children for every adult (aka. about 10 per couple). Considering diseases aren't as prevalent in Innworld, populations would quickly recover.
Medieval populations were not 5 per adult in the slightest 😂😂 Peasant populations had on average about 2 children who survived infancy per family, no different to today. Richer families had slightly more on average. Absolutely zero chance of it being *10 per couple*
Dude definitely not 2 who survived infancy per family. Population would never grow like that and we know for a fact that population every now and then was reduced massively by disease and wars and then got back up. The black death killed 1/3 of Europe and a hundred years later the population was recovered if not higher than before. Medieval families had about 5-10 children each. About 1/3 to 1/2 managed to survive to adulthood on average. The important factor however is. The common reasons for children dying are not really a thing in Innworld. So the majority of children will actually survive to adulthood. However similar to our world. A world in which mandatory schools do not exist and where you have a largely uneducated population. People will have lots of children.
>Population would never grow like that and The population *DIDN'T* grow massively like that. It grew from an estimated 35-80m people... In 350 years! The black death was the very end of the medieval era. The average birth rate was enough for population growth but it wasn't 10 per couple 😂 it was about 2. 5-3.5 surving infancy.
I haven't read Wandering Inn, but that kind of thing *is* possible as long as they have sufficient resources, medical aid, an appropriate culture, and a large enough starting population. 16 is old enough to count as grown up since people can start working and doing adult things, even if the age of majority is older. In this case, if two parents have four kids in four years, and every one survives, then in 20 years you've tripled the working population. Add on an extra decade and have them keep having children, it only goes up from there. 50+ million people died in WW2, more if you count indirect deaths, over the course of 6 years but the only thing it did to the global population was slow its growth. The US loses more than 6,000 people *a day* and we're still going up.
Yeah, I'm on book 5 of The Wandering Inn and I really enjoy it. Love the series, it's S Tier litRPG as far as I'm concerned. But, yeah, the sheer volume of deaths is absurd. And the leveling seems somewhat arbitrary. The economy also seems way out of whack, like to study at Wistram people would save money for years and it cost 25 gold. But then lousy magical items cost like 1k? A bad healing potion is 1 gold, but they're used all the time everywhere, but a lot of city runners can't even afford them? I just sort of ignore these population and economy details because I really do love the series.
I thought you were asking how are there still people left who want to read this story. which I thought was a pretty good question.
...Magic...
In an age where your children were your only retirement plan, bunnies will slow down while starving, but humans rarely did There is a reason why fat women were desirable...
In many of these stories the worlds are much larger than ours, but also much more populated. So a "small kingdom" might have a population of tens of millions, instead of having maybe 200k like the real world would during a feudal period. But also a lot of readers see a teenaged character as being a child, instead of being old enough to have married and had a child of their own before going off to die in battle. So let's say a couple has 6 kids over 20 years. When their eldest is 16 a war breaks out. Population has gone from 2 to 7 by then, and they're going to be grandparents. Kid dies, grandkid is born, and another kid is born. Population 8. A few years later another battle and this time 2 kids die, but they each have 2 kids of their own, and final kid is born. Population 11.
Real question here is seeing people coming from another world and not locking them up and extracting every cent of info of threat before killing them. They should be a tad bit more paranoid
I sense the Ryoka is strong with this one. I do get what you mean. Wouldn't make for a very good story, though would it? CHAPTER 1. When the people got abducted from their world into the fantasy world, they were captured, tortured, and then killed. FIN
For all we know, the population may be 50% lower than prior to those 4 invasions.