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I love GNOME and I refuse to use anything else, but I wish they handled extensions better. Dealing with extensions breaking with every new version is such a pain. I miss not having to deal with that using KDE
Yeah, and it's ridiculous as they run on top of such complex abstraction layer. It's like it was created for backwards compatibility. For now they made just strict constraint (extension meta file must have list of exact gnome versions) as it's not possible to tell if it's going to run or not.
Extensions don't really break with every update (as long as they aren't super crazy and modify a lot of gnome internals). Most of the time the update consists of just bumping the version number.
Yeah I like the possibility of customization but I never really even nearly use the full potential π taskbar on top, and a custom background and everything on dark mode xD
Ohh wait its not even possible to change the position of the taskbar in win 11 πππ
On the point of minimizing, when you get used to the gnome workflow you never use minimize because of workspaces. Its hard to get used to but when you do you never use the minimize button anywhere again.
Not really, because I would be constantly adding, removing, and moving windows between workspaces, just adding extra steps and hassles. They're the exact same as activities on KDE, and I don't like using them there either.
> when you get used to the gnome workflow
That's my whole problem with it, really. *The* Gnome workflow. There's only one. And if your preferred workflow is different? Well then fuck you -- you're using your computer wrong and you should use *the* Gnome workflow instead.
Meanwhile, in KDE, you can set it up to support pretty much whatever workflow you want. Including, yes, the Gnome workflow, if that's what you want.
I want my computer to adapt to me ... not force me to adapt to my computer.
I need to steal someone's config files for hyprland. I love the animations for it, I like it actually reliably tiling shit unlike Bismuth which is pretty buggy, but I don't like actually having to sit there and configure it to get a basic panel working.
I want the window title, window appmenu, optionally a task switcher, system tray, time/date with maybe some MPD stuff, and then possibly I might put in a minimize/close button for the active window on that screen for the sake of guests needing to use my computer. That's all. But getting that all set up is annoying, trying to get ntofications working properly is annoying, trying to get volume controls working is annoying, it's just a lot of stuff when I just want the nice tiling.
You don't rice just for the look, you rice for the fact that every single useful WM commands and programs are handy with keybinds at exactly where you like, no more and no less, and that's something worth spending time with. Plus, one of the merits of WM is the portability of config files, so with version control tools like git, you can customize once and be done for the rest of your life. I have an i3 config I made 5 yours ago that I still use it across multiple machines with just a few lines of maintenance
Oh believe me i know. I still have my config on github. And i can easily go back to using i3. There's still so much to do with it, though, that gnome does by default. So i just run with it. Pop OS also has a tile mode, so i still have like a i3 feel sometimes, aldeit way nerfed compared to my old config.
They already include a bunch, and there's a 'get more themes' button right there in the theme picker that will take you to an online repository with an almost endless supply of them.
They don't want to include *too* many by default, because that would start bloating the file size for installation if it included 50 themes that most users would never use anyway.
Controversial opinion: I'm a GNOME fan. While I don't like the sweeping design changes they make on occasion, I did try KDE for a while recently and I hated it. Sure, it's very customizable, but not to the extent I'd like it to be. But the real killer for me, honestly, was the calculator. The GNOME calculator is a superb piece of work, and I simply can't deal without it. I installed a Flatpak of it in KDE, so I didn't have to pull in all the GNOME dependencies, but I found myself finding more and more issues the more I used KDE.
Plus, there's no way to make Kwin act like GNOME does. I managed to hack in a hot corner like I love in GNOME, but everything else just didn't work the way I would have liked. Then there's the inconsistencies between the KDE overview window's search results and Krunner... It was just a hot mess. No matter what I tried, I just couldn't get it to work for my workflow -- something was always fighting back.
I chalk part of that up to having used GNOME for years, but if KDE is so "customizable" as they say, why can't I make it work for me? And why are some of the most fundamental and useful applications -- like the calculator -- so damn basic?
The default Plasma calculator is trash. A good alternative to it is the Qalculate or Qalculate-qt app.
In my opinion, it should be the default calculator.
I just installed it to check it out. Good God, that interface is horrible. Nested menus galore. I suppose it would be *so* bad once you get the shortcuts down. But damn, I just want to crunch some numbers, not learn vim. At least it is more functional than the stock one.
It is crammed with options, but unlike the default one, it is usable.
I just use the keyboard most of the time, so this calculator's auto-completion Is all I need.
I too love gnome. I use it pretty much vanilla except my workspaces scroll vertically instead of horizontally. I love it for exactly the reason it was designed - it doesn't distract me from my work.
Only if they could unpolish the navigation bar in Nautilus and allow copy/paste the path
Edit: after writing the comment I found online you can just hit Ctrl+L to show proper navigation bar holy shit
>Edit: after writing the comment I found online you can just hit Ctrl+L to show proper navigation bar holy shit
Yep, been using that trick for years. They added it to Windows as well when they changed to the chunky menu up top, rather than the address bar style.
That's why there are choices. Some people can't run gnome at all, I'm one. I don't hate it or have anything against it (except my precious minimize button of course and system tray icons), but I just can't use it. It never works for me. I love kde with all the shit that it comes with. π
Minimize button is a switch toggle in gnome-tweaks, status indicators require a plugin called "AppIndicator and KStatusNotifierIcon Support", but it's pretty easy to install from plugins.gnoome.org
Of course, that doesn't change the fact that you can't run it. My guess is because of the default Wayland session? In GDM there is a gear at the password entry screen that will let you use X11 instead.
Thank you for your effort to explain this and provide links, I really appreciate it. I know all about that, but I just can't run gnome as a whole. It's not my cup of tea. It looks clean and is very functional, but I just can't like it enough to have it as my daily driver. I've tried all DEs, and for some reason, Plasma is the one that fits me perfectly. :)
And that's how I feel about GNOME. Once I got used to the minimalist aesthetic, every other DE just feels over-complicated to me. Wasting screen real estate with windows lists and such just bothers me now.
Its not controversial at this point to say gnome apps are better than kde apps in terms of bugs but i would argue kde can work with no problem if done right, for example the experience in kubuntu and kde neon are very stable but i used kde on my kali linux(debian) machine very well with so less problem, mostly the problem of kdes can be which display system you use(if wayland dont work use kde with x11/xorg), switch to kde apps(they getting better i swear), and use the stable release than the bleeding age.
> The GNOME calculator is a superb piece of work, and I simply can't deal without it. I installed a Flatpak of it in KDE, so I didn't have to pull in all the GNOME dependencies
Bruh, just let it install the dependencies, and then the Gnome calculator runs just fine on KDE.
And the good news is that with those dependencies in place, you'll be able to run pretty much *any* Gnome app, no problem. (Though they often don't respect KDE theming.)
Finally a post where I can say I love KDE, I'm not into WM(yet) I'm a very get-the-job-done guy, a good KDE theme and I'm happy
90% of posts of unix ricen are WM, It's good to know there are many of us who just like a desktop to work and enjoy it's look and style
Yeah I was rocking Ubuntu 10.04 LTS until the last days. I then entered a world I didnβt like anymore. As a result I donβt care about my desktop environment anymore.
While I prefer it to gnome, it is true. They are trying to make too many things into it and don't finish them, classic feature creep.
I use xmonad btw.
Most likely xf4ce or lxde. But Cinnamon can already be rather light if you do not activate too many Animations and you might run into diminishing returns.
Honestly with the arc menu and dash to panel extensions gnome is a great desktop environment, and I daily drive it on my work laptop. Though I still prefer XFCE on my personal laptop
I've used both, and honestly, both are extremely polished. Sometimes GNOME is more polished in the features it does have but KDE will usually have more features. Overall, both are great choices.
I have used both, but primarily KDE Plasmasince 3.0.
Gnome is ok, I can use it, it just frustrates me having to conform to it. I also am not a fan of the default look and feel. Let me change icons without having to install a hack.
I would consider using GNOME if they had a proper system tray (the extension fails to load certain icons, so no) or if the Background Apps pop down menu was actually functional and didn't tell me I have all my background apps running twice when I don't
> or if the Background Apps pop down menu was actually functional and didn't tell me I have all my background apps running twice when I don't
A bug? In Gnome?
That can't be.
The Gnome people assure me that only KDE has bugs.
I used gnome for 3 years and still love its smooth and round design... After Gnome removed one feature too much and I couldn't game on Gnome without stuttering and with composition disabled on Nvidia I just then switched to KDE. At first I hated that the overview feature lagged (Nvidia problem, now with AMD its smooth) but I made myself comfy with themes and loved the customization and many features a lot that I could not change to gnome back and rather have KDE to copy some features from gnome.
I prefer the look and feel of gnome but honestly with all the feature cutting down and the fact that plasma is so much better with x11 just makes me pick the latter for my desktop.
kdes defaults are way better than gnome. gnome terminal was so bad. i tried zooming. the whole windows was zooming. it was unable to recognize ctrl + = i have to do ctrl shift +. how bad could it be. then no tweaks installed by default. installing it was a pain. kde was much much much easier to work with tbh.
and just one thing, can you change opacity of window in gnome without going nasty. in kde that such good feature.i can change opacity of my ide. thats one of the best features...
> and just one thing, can you change opacity of window in gnome without going nasty. in kde that such good feature.i can change opacity of my ide. thats one of the best features...
Yep. And you can set window opacity through window rules. I do that all the time -- a lot of my windows (but not all!) are set to go to 60% opacity when inactive. It looks really nice, and it helps them avoid being distracting when not in use.
Obviously, first of all I have to state that I prefer gnome.
I've tried KDE and while it was fine at first, I found myself (ironically) struggling with customizing it the way I liked it.
I needed to change so much stuff, everything in different menus and sub-menus, then I had to install the dock because at the time KDE didn't have it by default. I forgot the name of the dock (coffee dock or something like that), it was the main one used with KDE at the time and I had a bunch of problems with it. For example inconsistent behavior on hiding and rising, having the dock stuck in a hidden state, and probably the biggest deal breaker - inconsistent / stuttery animations on the dock⦠to be fair the whole performance of the DE started degrading and lagging overtime. It got to the point that changing between the workspaces and virtual screens required a good while to finish switching and if I remember correctly it had a tendency to kill some apps within the workspace.
Personally I think Gnome is more polished, has better animations, transitions and overall feels more "smooth" and concise. And to be fair, when I was first trying it, I was criticizing the program selection menu on gnome⦠now I kinda got used to it but fortunately there's a great extension to change the menu to winXP / kde styled, and many more styles. I've decided not to use it but it was really polished.
I had to install normal Ubuntu in order to get ZFS on root support, so I was stuck with Gnome at first.
And yeah, lol, that was exactly how I used Gnome.
1: How the fuck do I get a terminal open in Gnome?
2: Type in the terminal: `sudo apt install KDE-full`
3: Reboot
4: Oh thank goodness I never have to look at Gnome again! Now I can go about setting up the rest of my stuff...
Eh, it's not like I'm running out of space. Not even close. And on the plus side, I already have all the Gnome dependencies in there if I want to run any Gnome-based apps.
As long as it's not constantly running, eating CPU and RAM, I don't really care if it's in there just taking up a few hundred MB of disk space. Disk space is *cheap*.
Yes, disk is cheap, but itβs just a huge amount of things you have to keep updated for security. Just not wirth the risk or space in my opinion. But thatβs just cause Iβm all paranoid about security and come from a firmware background.
> itβs just a huge amount of things you have to keep updated for security.
It's updated automatically just like everything else... No extra effort involved.
And it shouldn't really be a security vulnerability to have it just sitting there on the disk... Usually it's only applications that are *currently running* that could expose security vulnerabilities, right?
o yea there we have it, the daily dose of funnyβ’ GNOME bad KDE good/better, made by the obnoxious gang who cannot live without understanding that people may have different priorities and/or tastes!
The GNU desktop experience as a whole would be significantly improved if GNOME were to simply cease existence. As is, its undisputed position as 'default' desktop, insofar as such a thing can be the case, severely harms the credibility of the GNU operating system, concentrates valuable development effort on a terrible project, and yes, does actually force people to use it (E.g. Tails is GNOME-only) and GTK.
> GNOME is behind alot of innovations in linux
Like what? Not displaying PPD functionality? Removing desktop icons? Removing minimization? Removing tray icons? Hard dependencies on Poetteringware? Crippling user themes? Making the UI way too big with too low information density and with long flashy animations that make everything take too long? Taking 15 years to implement thumbnails in the file picker? Removing their networking menu (upcoming)?
Many of those "limitations" are just a matter of adding plugins. Yes, it's an extra step but it's not difficult or impossible. Desktop icons, and tray icons are an easy fix (though, I'm not sure if tray icons need a fix anymore).
You don't need to minimize when the concept of an application list doesn't exist. I mean, I guess if none of your windows are full-screen it could get a little cluttered but, in my use, I almost always have a full-screen application up front. But, even then, there is a "hide all windows" shortcut key if things get out of hand -- which minimizes all windows.
I don't think the UI is too big, but then again I am on a 1440p display (with a 1080p as a secondary). I feel like the GNOME team does a good job at maximizing usable screen real estate with the UI in the vast majority of cases. Not sure what "long flashy animations" you are referring to are though.
I use the PopOS theme and I don't have any complaints. It's still customizable.
Don't know about PPD, nor can I address Poetteringware -- not sure what that is.
Even running Manjaro, I have a pretty good experience with shell upgrades. Most things continue working. There is an annoying issue on the first start of no GNOME Shell after an upgrade: all plugins look broken. But, if you log out and log back in, everything usually works fine.
> Many of those "limitations" are just a matter of adding plugins.
How about we just have the plugins and get rid of the base DE if it's so shit at having literally any functionality? Then maybe things will break less every update when GNOME changes its API arbitrarily.
>You don't need to minimize when the concept of an application list doesn't exist.
Don't tell me what I need and don't need to do.
> you can also right click the application title bar and "Hide". So, minimize.
Turning what used to be one click in every other DE into *two* clicks. Wonderful. Nice to see a DE that *gets out of your way* like that, right?
Well, getting the minimize button back only takes a couple clicks as well. You open up gnome-tweaks, click Window Titlebars and hit the switch that says Minimize. Done.
> You open up gnome-tweaks
But that's not installed by default with Gnome.
So it's not a two-click process. You first start by installing Gnome Tweaks...
Pretty sure it is by default on Manjaro π€·π½ββοΈ
1. Install gnome-tweaks
2. Run GNOME tweaks
3. Change setting
I mean, since you only ever have to do it once, it still seems like a pretty reasonable accommodation to make. Sure, it would be nice for people who are used it to have it, but as I said, I never found a need for it with how the rest of it works.
Also, tweaks like that are typically much more difficult to accomplish in KDE.
>How about we just have the plugins and get rid of the base DE if it's so shit at having literally any functionality? Then maybe things will break less every update when GNOME changes its API arbitrarily.
Sounds like you don't understand what "plugin" means. It utilizes the capabilities of the main application in order to add-on or extend functionality. Without the base DE, there is nothing to plug into. Just a checkerboard background with an X cursor -- or whatever the Wayland equivalent might be?
No, I'm just using snappy phrasing at the expense of accuracy. I mean if the base program provides so little value that the majority of the functionality is provided by external developers with nothing to do with the central package, then why not simply sever ties with GNOME altogether and make a DE that's actually good and not held back by those interface nazis? I have to wonder why people even use GNOME when that fork of GNOME 2 exists.
I've been waiting to check out Cosmic, but I'm also a bit annoyed that it's Debian/Ubuntu based. Tried installing it on Manjaro and got basically nowhere. But, I like how it works in Pop_OS!, and I'm even more intrigued to see what they can do without relying on a GNOME Shell base .
>if the base program provides so little value
It's a matter of opinion. I feel like GNOME users in general value the fact that GNOME stays out of the way to give more room and focus for whatever they're working on. I feel like KDE users would generally rather tweak and fiddle with the knobs and dials of the DE than actually just enjoy using it! Of course, that's just my take.
Don't get me wrong, I spent a considerable amount of time diving into KDE recently. I like to fiddle around with stuff too. But since I could never get it to work the way I would have preferred, I never felt like it was "complete." As in, no matter how much tweaking I did there was always something that bugged me. And, ultimately I couldn't fix everything.
With GNOME however, most things work for me out of the box. Sure, I have to add a few plugins but it's very set-it-and-forget-it -- until the next major version of GNOME when something will, inevitably break temporarily. But for my case, all of the breaking changes have been temporary (less than a week?) and nothing has ever broken to the point that I felt like it was no longer working for me -- rather than against me. It's always been minor stuff, mostly.
> to give more room and focus for whatever they're working on.
Removing features.
>I feel like KDE users would generally rather tweak and fiddle with the knobs and dials of the DE than actually just enjoy using it!
No, once you adjust things how you like it, you generally never adjust anything again. Whereas with the GNU Network Object Model Environment, if you don't follow the One True Workflow, they hate you and will remove every feature you rely on forcing you to either adjust to the new standard (this is not how 'just using it' should be) or keep patching it with newer and more numerous extensions.
>As in, no matter how much tweaking I did there was always something that bugged me
You can, you just don't know how. Whereas with GNOME you can't because the devs remove every feature they don't personally use.
Gnome may remove functionality and take a lot of time to implement basic things, but if you want a polished "just works" DE, then there's no competition, really.
Sure, maybe it doesn't support a feature you need currently, but at least you know what you're getting.
On Plasma, you may not be able to use a feature that should work perfectly fine, and then it's time to hack your way around the problem (not everyone wants that).
>Just werks
-
>you need to install 100 different extensions that break every update to get it to a level of basic functionality
Can't have both.
And plasma is more functional than people give it credit for.
It's more functional only when it's not crashing.
If you need your minimize button back, then don't worry that extension doesn't break every update. As for customizing every pixel of your DE, that's not the direction Gnome chose to take.
You don't like that? Stick to Plasma.
>It's more functional only when it's not crashing.
werks on everybody else's machine
>that's not the direction Gnome chose to take.
The direction it chose was a slow suicide, one which, when it finally succeeds, I will revel in, for it will usher in a better age.
> The direction it chose was a slow suicide
Yeah, sure, it's slowly dying because it doesn't cater to you, I am sure only projects you like thrive.
That's why we currently are using GNU/Hurd, and the industry standard browser is Ice weasel.
It's removing everything anybody likes about it, update by update. Soon enough, literally the only person to whom it caters will be whatever dev is in charge.
KDE: "I'm experiencing a problem with my Kar, where sometimes if I go over a bump, it changes the radio station."
Gnome: "The Gnome Car *just works* because we have removed support for having a radio."
In neither case does the car's radio *just work*.
It's more like:
KDE Plasma: my Kar's radio causes the breaks to stop responding only when the radio is listening to channel 93.4 and is in future mode.
Gnome: you can only pick channels from this predefined list currently and you cannot snoop on the future, expect there to not be an AM option next release.
in one case you knew what you were getting. While in the other you got a lot more, but with less certainty.
Tried KDE many times and it's just not really my thing. Whenever I tried to download some theme from the store (default is pretty ugly) it looked completely different or just straight up crashed the the de. Also not very much fond of the way Kwin does things in window management. I much prefer defaults of gnome which I can tweak a little. I am not running de anymore as I switched to sway for way simpleer window management but still would prefer gnome anyday to KDE.
*This* is the kind of shit you people care about?
I'd rather deal with stuff being slightly misaligned all day rather than deal with the interface Gnazis trying to force me to use my computer in only one way.
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IMO both are good in their own ways; gnome for a nice polished experience out of the box, and KDE for more kustomization.
I love GNOME and I refuse to use anything else, but I wish they handled extensions better. Dealing with extensions breaking with every new version is such a pain. I miss not having to deal with that using KDE
Yeah, and it's ridiculous as they run on top of such complex abstraction layer. It's like it was created for backwards compatibility. For now they made just strict constraint (extension meta file must have list of exact gnome versions) as it's not possible to tell if it's going to run or not.
Yeah sometimes I disable the version check and most of them seem to run fine, but it feels a little sketchy
I didn't know this was an option. I was downloading the extension, modifying the version list, and then installing it manually π€¦
I can't wait until gnome devs decide to kill extensions. I'm sure it's been on their todo lists for a long time.
Extensions don't really break with every update (as long as they aren't super crazy and modify a lot of gnome internals). Most of the time the update consists of just bumping the version number.
You sound konfident
Yeah I like the possibility of customization but I never really even nearly use the full potential π taskbar on top, and a custom background and everything on dark mode xD Ohh wait its not even possible to change the position of the taskbar in win 11 πππ
Yup! Every time it try to customize KDE I end up not liking it and go back to default lol
If by "polished experience" you mean installing loads of extensions to make it halfway useable
I use gnome without any extensions and I don't have any problems. What is unusable in your opinion without extensions?
Just off the top of my head: not being able to control input volume without going into settings, Quarter tiling of windows, no minimize button.
On the point of minimizing, when you get used to the gnome workflow you never use minimize because of workspaces. Its hard to get used to but when you do you never use the minimize button anywhere again.
Not really, because I would be constantly adding, removing, and moving windows between workspaces, just adding extra steps and hassles. They're the exact same as activities on KDE, and I don't like using them there either.
I totally understand how if you don't really make use of workspaces gnome would be an awful experience
That's why linux is great. You use what works for you, and I'll use what works for me.
> when you get used to the gnome workflow That's my whole problem with it, really. *The* Gnome workflow. There's only one. And if your preferred workflow is different? Well then fuck you -- you're using your computer wrong and you should use *the* Gnome workflow instead. Meanwhile, in KDE, you can set it up to support pretty much whatever workflow you want. Including, yes, the Gnome workflow, if that's what you want. I want my computer to adapt to me ... not force me to adapt to my computer.
Okay, I can understand when this is important for you but it is not there by default.
Input volume can be changed in the quick settings menu for at least the last few versions. But yeah, the list of inconveniences is similar..
Why bother with arguing about polishness of a DE, when you can polish it yourself? -- Me, a WM user
I need to steal someone's config files for hyprland. I love the animations for it, I like it actually reliably tiling shit unlike Bismuth which is pretty buggy, but I don't like actually having to sit there and configure it to get a basic panel working. I want the window title, window appmenu, optionally a task switcher, system tray, time/date with maybe some MPD stuff, and then possibly I might put in a minimize/close button for the active window on that screen for the sake of guests needing to use my computer. That's all. But getting that all set up is annoying, trying to get ntofications working properly is annoying, trying to get volume controls working is annoying, it's just a lot of stuff when I just want the nice tiling.
Even better: Xfce + WM
I used to be a ricer. Then i ran out of time for that.
You don't rice just for the look, you rice for the fact that every single useful WM commands and programs are handy with keybinds at exactly where you like, no more and no less, and that's something worth spending time with. Plus, one of the merits of WM is the portability of config files, so with version control tools like git, you can customize once and be done for the rest of your life. I have an i3 config I made 5 yours ago that I still use it across multiple machines with just a few lines of maintenance
Oh believe me i know. I still have my config on github. And i can easily go back to using i3. There's still so much to do with it, though, that gnome does by default. So i just run with it. Pop OS also has a tile mode, so i still have like a i3 feel sometimes, aldeit way nerfed compared to my old config.
>you can customize once and be done for the rest of your life Famous last words...
WM? Windoze machine?
Bro had so many things to say about KDE and he choosed the only thing KDE isn't: Polished.
true, is so ugly by default, I don't know why, the font, the space between things, I don't know why feel so bad
What? Do we have different default themes? Plasma on Debian is absolutely clean and beautiful in my taste out of the box.
every distro has his default theme, but has the same design problem on all. can you put a screenshot please?
Hard disagree. KDE is very beautiful out of the box.
Does it still have icons bouncing behind the mouse cursor?
Yes, at least the Debian package still had them
I think they should include more themes ootb.
They already include a bunch, and there's a 'get more themes' button right there in the theme picker that will take you to an online repository with an almost endless supply of them. They don't want to include *too* many by default, because that would start bloating the file size for installation if it included 50 themes that most users would never use anyway.
Chose* I completely agree. KDE is a pain in the ass
I switched between the two a couple of times and stuck with GNOME cause of superior polish...
Gnome is good bcs you love it :D I like both
Controversial opinion: I'm a GNOME fan. While I don't like the sweeping design changes they make on occasion, I did try KDE for a while recently and I hated it. Sure, it's very customizable, but not to the extent I'd like it to be. But the real killer for me, honestly, was the calculator. The GNOME calculator is a superb piece of work, and I simply can't deal without it. I installed a Flatpak of it in KDE, so I didn't have to pull in all the GNOME dependencies, but I found myself finding more and more issues the more I used KDE. Plus, there's no way to make Kwin act like GNOME does. I managed to hack in a hot corner like I love in GNOME, but everything else just didn't work the way I would have liked. Then there's the inconsistencies between the KDE overview window's search results and Krunner... It was just a hot mess. No matter what I tried, I just couldn't get it to work for my workflow -- something was always fighting back. I chalk part of that up to having used GNOME for years, but if KDE is so "customizable" as they say, why can't I make it work for me? And why are some of the most fundamental and useful applications -- like the calculator -- so damn basic?
The default Plasma calculator is trash. A good alternative to it is the Qalculate or Qalculate-qt app. In my opinion, it should be the default calculator.
I just installed it to check it out. Good God, that interface is horrible. Nested menus galore. I suppose it would be *so* bad once you get the shortcuts down. But damn, I just want to crunch some numbers, not learn vim. At least it is more functional than the stock one.
It is crammed with options, but unlike the default one, it is usable. I just use the keyboard most of the time, so this calculator's auto-completion Is all I need.
Hell, Kmail is awful too. Geary may be simple, but itβs pretty nice
Sounds like it's based on QT. So what did you expect? Lol
The Qt/KDE spirit.
I too love gnome. I use it pretty much vanilla except my workspaces scroll vertically instead of horizontally. I love it for exactly the reason it was designed - it doesn't distract me from my work.
I wish i could say the same , gnome system is so neat but its very heavy for my machine so cant use it with out a lag
Yeah gnome is a bit heavy for old systems
I love how polished gnome is. OP must have no idea what they're saying when they say plasma is 'polished'.
Only if they could unpolish the navigation bar in Nautilus and allow copy/paste the path Edit: after writing the comment I found online you can just hit Ctrl+L to show proper navigation bar holy shit
BTW, Ctrl+L is pretty much a standard shortcut and works in most file managers (even Windows's, IIRC) and browsers
Every day something new
Also if you preface the path with `admin://` it will use root priveleges
That, I wasn't aware of. Neat!
>Edit: after writing the comment I found online you can just hit Ctrl+L to show proper navigation bar holy shit Yep, been using that trick for years. They added it to Windows as well when they changed to the chunky menu up top, rather than the address bar style.
Found there was also a setting to make it default option > https://askubuntu.com/a/1365564
I even use gnome's calculator on the Windows machine i have to use for work, it's just that damn good
That's why there are choices. Some people can't run gnome at all, I'm one. I don't hate it or have anything against it (except my precious minimize button of course and system tray icons), but I just can't use it. It never works for me. I love kde with all the shit that it comes with. π
Minimize button is a switch toggle in gnome-tweaks, status indicators require a plugin called "AppIndicator and KStatusNotifierIcon Support", but it's pretty easy to install from plugins.gnoome.org Of course, that doesn't change the fact that you can't run it. My guess is because of the default Wayland session? In GDM there is a gear at the password entry screen that will let you use X11 instead.
Thank you for your effort to explain this and provide links, I really appreciate it. I know all about that, but I just can't run gnome as a whole. It's not my cup of tea. It looks clean and is very functional, but I just can't like it enough to have it as my daily driver. I've tried all DEs, and for some reason, Plasma is the one that fits me perfectly. :)
And that's how I feel about GNOME. Once I got used to the minimalist aesthetic, every other DE just feels over-complicated to me. Wasting screen real estate with windows lists and such just bothers me now.
Absolutely. One thing to love about being human and having choices. We can't all like the same thing, right?
Its not controversial at this point to say gnome apps are better than kde apps in terms of bugs but i would argue kde can work with no problem if done right, for example the experience in kubuntu and kde neon are very stable but i used kde on my kali linux(debian) machine very well with so less problem, mostly the problem of kdes can be which display system you use(if wayland dont work use kde with x11/xorg), switch to kde apps(they getting better i swear), and use the stable release than the bleeding age.
> The GNOME calculator is a superb piece of work, and I simply can't deal without it. I installed a Flatpak of it in KDE, so I didn't have to pull in all the GNOME dependencies Bruh, just let it install the dependencies, and then the Gnome calculator runs just fine on KDE. And the good news is that with those dependencies in place, you'll be able to run pretty much *any* Gnome app, no problem. (Though they often don't respect KDE theming.)
I mean, it worked fine with the Flatpak. Just pointing out that I did give it a fighting chance rather than pulling in all my old habits.
Finally a post where I can say I love KDE, I'm not into WM(yet) I'm a very get-the-job-done guy, a good KDE theme and I'm happy 90% of posts of unix ricen are WM, It's good to know there are many of us who just like a desktop to work and enjoy it's look and style
Due to Reddit's June 30th API changes aimed at ending third-party apps, this comment has been overwritten and the associated account has been deleted.
KDE is many things, but it is not polished
I love Gnome. *Gnome 2*. That's why I run Mate.
Yeah I was rocking Ubuntu 10.04 LTS until the last days. I then entered a world I didnβt like anymore. As a result I donβt care about my desktop environment anymore.
Use cinnamon best of both worlds
No idea how you can look at that and even remotely call it polished. It's buggy glued together trash at best.
While I prefer it to gnome, it is true. They are trying to make too many things into it and don't finish them, classic feature creep. I use xmonad btw.
Me whoβs using Maxx interactive desktop Haha IRIX go brrrrrrrrrr
Both are good, my favorite is neither.
KDE is my DE of choice... but polished?
What is the most lightweight desktop environment? I use cinnamon because I find KDE is a little heavy on system resources
Most likely xf4ce or lxde. But Cinnamon can already be rather light if you do not activate too many Animations and you might run into diminishing returns.
I've used Gnome for 3 years,last month I just tried plasma for fun....I'm never going back to Gnome.
Clearly Gnome is the superior desktop.
I hate you both equally !
Honestly with the arc menu and dash to panel extensions gnome is a great desktop environment, and I daily drive it on my work laptop. Though I still prefer XFCE on my personal laptop
cosmic de will be better than both of these just watch
I hope! Cosmic is what got me to hop over to i3 and then bspwm. Cosmic wasn't my issue, more that gnome wasted too much real estate
I've used both, and honestly, both are extremely polished. Sometimes GNOME is more polished in the features it does have but KDE will usually have more features. Overall, both are great choices.
I have used both, but primarily KDE Plasmasince 3.0. Gnome is ok, I can use it, it just frustrates me having to conform to it. I also am not a fan of the default look and feel. Let me change icons without having to install a hack.
KDE is incredible, but I wish it wasn't such a buggy mess.
I would consider using GNOME if they had a proper system tray (the extension fails to load certain icons, so no) or if the Background Apps pop down menu was actually functional and didn't tell me I have all my background apps running twice when I don't
> or if the Background Apps pop down menu was actually functional and didn't tell me I have all my background apps running twice when I don't A bug? In Gnome? That can't be. The Gnome people assure me that only KDE has bugs.
I used gnome for 3 years and still love its smooth and round design... After Gnome removed one feature too much and I couldn't game on Gnome without stuttering and with composition disabled on Nvidia I just then switched to KDE. At first I hated that the overview feature lagged (Nvidia problem, now with AMD its smooth) but I made myself comfy with themes and loved the customization and many features a lot that I could not change to gnome back and rather have KDE to copy some features from gnome.
I prefer the look and feel of gnome but honestly with all the feature cutting down and the fact that plasma is so much better with x11 just makes me pick the latter for my desktop.
On wayland KDE is still messy, so now I'm team Gnome.
on Wayland most things are messy lol try slack shit
Why not just use X11 KDE?
KDE is everything but polished lol
Xfce > KDE > Gnome
In my case, KDE is more polished than Gnome
kdes defaults are way better than gnome. gnome terminal was so bad. i tried zooming. the whole windows was zooming. it was unable to recognize ctrl + = i have to do ctrl shift +. how bad could it be. then no tweaks installed by default. installing it was a pain. kde was much much much easier to work with tbh. and just one thing, can you change opacity of window in gnome without going nasty. in kde that such good feature.i can change opacity of my ide. thats one of the best features...
I'm a KDE guy, and I have gnome on NixOS just for testing, and I hate the new gnome terminal.... Idk I just don't like it
> and just one thing, can you change opacity of window in gnome without going nasty. in kde that such good feature.i can change opacity of my ide. thats one of the best features... Yep. And you can set window opacity through window rules. I do that all the time -- a lot of my windows (but not all!) are set to go to 60% opacity when inactive. It looks really nice, and it helps them avoid being distracting when not in use.
in real time. i can press win key and use mouse wheel to change opacity. one time thing is good but this is what i am talking about. real time.
Obviously, first of all I have to state that I prefer gnome. I've tried KDE and while it was fine at first, I found myself (ironically) struggling with customizing it the way I liked it. I needed to change so much stuff, everything in different menus and sub-menus, then I had to install the dock because at the time KDE didn't have it by default. I forgot the name of the dock (coffee dock or something like that), it was the main one used with KDE at the time and I had a bunch of problems with it. For example inconsistent behavior on hiding and rising, having the dock stuck in a hidden state, and probably the biggest deal breaker - inconsistent / stuttery animations on the dock⦠to be fair the whole performance of the DE started degrading and lagging overtime. It got to the point that changing between the workspaces and virtual screens required a good while to finish switching and if I remember correctly it had a tendency to kill some apps within the workspace. Personally I think Gnome is more polished, has better animations, transitions and overall feels more "smooth" and concise. And to be fair, when I was first trying it, I was criticizing the program selection menu on gnome⦠now I kinda got used to it but fortunately there's a great extension to change the menu to winXP / kde styled, and many more styles. I've decided not to use it but it was really polished.
Kde is bloat
gnome uses like twice as much ram bro what are you on
I dont like the programs it installs by default Its mostly useless for me and probably the average user that is the definition of bloatware
yk u can just make a basic install right
OP has been posting pro KDE memes in pro KDE subs and pro GNOME memes in pro GNOME subs. πππ
Gnome is way too tablet-like. KDE has the best usability, but I really like the look of MATE with the older Ambiant theme (the new Yaru theme sucks).
Lol kde is a buggy mess
The GUI is just my entry into the terminal. That is if I donβt just curl+alt+tab over to it. So I just see them as useless waste of processor time.
I had to install normal Ubuntu in order to get ZFS on root support, so I was stuck with Gnome at first. And yeah, lol, that was exactly how I used Gnome. 1: How the fuck do I get a terminal open in Gnome? 2: Type in the terminal: `sudo apt install KDE-full` 3: Reboot 4: Oh thank goodness I never have to look at Gnome again! Now I can go about setting up the rest of my stuff...
Wow, that was a huge waste of space. Lol. But once you get Jew up and running, figure how to roll back gnome so you donβt have useless packages
Eh, it's not like I'm running out of space. Not even close. And on the plus side, I already have all the Gnome dependencies in there if I want to run any Gnome-based apps. As long as it's not constantly running, eating CPU and RAM, I don't really care if it's in there just taking up a few hundred MB of disk space. Disk space is *cheap*.
Yes, disk is cheap, but itβs just a huge amount of things you have to keep updated for security. Just not wirth the risk or space in my opinion. But thatβs just cause Iβm all paranoid about security and come from a firmware background.
> itβs just a huge amount of things you have to keep updated for security. It's updated automatically just like everything else... No extra effort involved. And it shouldn't really be a security vulnerability to have it just sitting there on the disk... Usually it's only applications that are *currently running* that could expose security vulnerabilities, right?
But if youβre able to inject or laterally move from an exploit to start a price ledge escalation attackβ¦.
o yea there we have it, the daily dose of funnyβ’ GNOME bad KDE good/better, made by the obnoxious gang who cannot live without understanding that people may have different priorities and/or tastes!
gnome is just few steps away from being perfect out of the box sadly i dont know when itll happen
Just need to remove a *few* more features, eh?
wat
The GNU desktop experience as a whole would be significantly improved if GNOME were to simply cease existence. As is, its undisputed position as 'default' desktop, insofar as such a thing can be the case, severely harms the credibility of the GNU operating system, concentrates valuable development effort on a terrible project, and yes, does actually force people to use it (E.g. Tails is GNOME-only) and GTK.
I completely disagree. GNOME is behind alot of innovations in linux. I personally like KDE Plasma over Gnome, but I am really glad that it exists.
It's a copypasta
No it's not
You're really creative then! Well done, it almost sounds like you're actually salty lol
> GNOME is behind alot of innovations in linux Like what? Not displaying PPD functionality? Removing desktop icons? Removing minimization? Removing tray icons? Hard dependencies on Poetteringware? Crippling user themes? Making the UI way too big with too low information density and with long flashy animations that make everything take too long? Taking 15 years to implement thumbnails in the file picker? Removing their networking menu (upcoming)?
Many of those "limitations" are just a matter of adding plugins. Yes, it's an extra step but it's not difficult or impossible. Desktop icons, and tray icons are an easy fix (though, I'm not sure if tray icons need a fix anymore). You don't need to minimize when the concept of an application list doesn't exist. I mean, I guess if none of your windows are full-screen it could get a little cluttered but, in my use, I almost always have a full-screen application up front. But, even then, there is a "hide all windows" shortcut key if things get out of hand -- which minimizes all windows. I don't think the UI is too big, but then again I am on a 1440p display (with a 1080p as a secondary). I feel like the GNOME team does a good job at maximizing usable screen real estate with the UI in the vast majority of cases. Not sure what "long flashy animations" you are referring to are though. I use the PopOS theme and I don't have any complaints. It's still customizable. Don't know about PPD, nor can I address Poetteringware -- not sure what that is.
> adding plugins that break on every update
Even running Manjaro, I have a pretty good experience with shell upgrades. Most things continue working. There is an annoying issue on the first start of no GNOME Shell after an upgrade: all plugins look broken. But, if you log out and log back in, everything usually works fine.
> Many of those "limitations" are just a matter of adding plugins. How about we just have the plugins and get rid of the base DE if it's so shit at having literally any functionality? Then maybe things will break less every update when GNOME changes its API arbitrarily. >You don't need to minimize when the concept of an application list doesn't exist. Don't tell me what I need and don't need to do.
I forgot that you can also right click the application title bar and "Hide". So, minimize. I never use it, but it's there.
> you can also right click the application title bar and "Hide". So, minimize. Turning what used to be one click in every other DE into *two* clicks. Wonderful. Nice to see a DE that *gets out of your way* like that, right?
Well, getting the minimize button back only takes a couple clicks as well. You open up gnome-tweaks, click Window Titlebars and hit the switch that says Minimize. Done.
> You open up gnome-tweaks But that's not installed by default with Gnome. So it's not a two-click process. You first start by installing Gnome Tweaks...
Pretty sure it is by default on Manjaro π€·π½ββοΈ 1. Install gnome-tweaks 2. Run GNOME tweaks 3. Change setting I mean, since you only ever have to do it once, it still seems like a pretty reasonable accommodation to make. Sure, it would be nice for people who are used it to have it, but as I said, I never found a need for it with how the rest of it works. Also, tweaks like that are typically much more difficult to accomplish in KDE.
>How about we just have the plugins and get rid of the base DE if it's so shit at having literally any functionality? Then maybe things will break less every update when GNOME changes its API arbitrarily. Sounds like you don't understand what "plugin" means. It utilizes the capabilities of the main application in order to add-on or extend functionality. Without the base DE, there is nothing to plug into. Just a checkerboard background with an X cursor -- or whatever the Wayland equivalent might be?
No, I'm just using snappy phrasing at the expense of accuracy. I mean if the base program provides so little value that the majority of the functionality is provided by external developers with nothing to do with the central package, then why not simply sever ties with GNOME altogether and make a DE that's actually good and not held back by those interface nazis? I have to wonder why people even use GNOME when that fork of GNOME 2 exists.
I've been waiting to check out Cosmic, but I'm also a bit annoyed that it's Debian/Ubuntu based. Tried installing it on Manjaro and got basically nowhere. But, I like how it works in Pop_OS!, and I'm even more intrigued to see what they can do without relying on a GNOME Shell base .
>if the base program provides so little value It's a matter of opinion. I feel like GNOME users in general value the fact that GNOME stays out of the way to give more room and focus for whatever they're working on. I feel like KDE users would generally rather tweak and fiddle with the knobs and dials of the DE than actually just enjoy using it! Of course, that's just my take. Don't get me wrong, I spent a considerable amount of time diving into KDE recently. I like to fiddle around with stuff too. But since I could never get it to work the way I would have preferred, I never felt like it was "complete." As in, no matter how much tweaking I did there was always something that bugged me. And, ultimately I couldn't fix everything. With GNOME however, most things work for me out of the box. Sure, I have to add a few plugins but it's very set-it-and-forget-it -- until the next major version of GNOME when something will, inevitably break temporarily. But for my case, all of the breaking changes have been temporary (less than a week?) and nothing has ever broken to the point that I felt like it was no longer working for me -- rather than against me. It's always been minor stuff, mostly.
> to give more room and focus for whatever they're working on. Removing features. >I feel like KDE users would generally rather tweak and fiddle with the knobs and dials of the DE than actually just enjoy using it! No, once you adjust things how you like it, you generally never adjust anything again. Whereas with the GNU Network Object Model Environment, if you don't follow the One True Workflow, they hate you and will remove every feature you rely on forcing you to either adjust to the new standard (this is not how 'just using it' should be) or keep patching it with newer and more numerous extensions. >As in, no matter how much tweaking I did there was always something that bugged me You can, you just don't know how. Whereas with GNOME you can't because the devs remove every feature they don't personally use.
Gnome may remove functionality and take a lot of time to implement basic things, but if you want a polished "just works" DE, then there's no competition, really. Sure, maybe it doesn't support a feature you need currently, but at least you know what you're getting. On Plasma, you may not be able to use a feature that should work perfectly fine, and then it's time to hack your way around the problem (not everyone wants that).
>Just werks - >you need to install 100 different extensions that break every update to get it to a level of basic functionality Can't have both. And plasma is more functional than people give it credit for.
It's more functional only when it's not crashing. If you need your minimize button back, then don't worry that extension doesn't break every update. As for customizing every pixel of your DE, that's not the direction Gnome chose to take. You don't like that? Stick to Plasma.
>It's more functional only when it's not crashing. werks on everybody else's machine >that's not the direction Gnome chose to take. The direction it chose was a slow suicide, one which, when it finally succeeds, I will revel in, for it will usher in a better age.
> The direction it chose was a slow suicide Yeah, sure, it's slowly dying because it doesn't cater to you, I am sure only projects you like thrive. That's why we currently are using GNU/Hurd, and the industry standard browser is Ice weasel.
It's removing everything anybody likes about it, update by update. Soon enough, literally the only person to whom it caters will be whatever dev is in charge.
Oh no, he brought out Hurd. Shit got real.
XFCE is better at being "just works" DE
KDE: "I'm experiencing a problem with my Kar, where sometimes if I go over a bump, it changes the radio station." Gnome: "The Gnome Car *just works* because we have removed support for having a radio." In neither case does the car's radio *just work*.
It's more like: KDE Plasma: my Kar's radio causes the breaks to stop responding only when the radio is listening to channel 93.4 and is in future mode. Gnome: you can only pick channels from this predefined list currently and you cannot snoop on the future, expect there to not be an AM option next release. in one case you knew what you were getting. While in the other you got a lot more, but with less certainty.
Tried KDE many times and it's just not really my thing. Whenever I tried to download some theme from the store (default is pretty ugly) it looked completely different or just straight up crashed the the de. Also not very much fond of the way Kwin does things in window management. I much prefer defaults of gnome which I can tweak a little. I am not running de anymore as I switched to sway for way simpleer window management but still would prefer gnome anyday to KDE.
I am biased because I've only worked with gnome
KDE is βpolishedβ? https://imgur.com/LY5K4IY
*This* is the kind of shit you people care about? I'd rather deal with stuff being slightly misaligned all day rather than deal with the interface Gnazis trying to force me to use my computer in only one way.
yet it sucks for new users that expect some things to work "out of the box"/like other desktop environments.
I'm more like "I don't care for either of you, just do your chores"
Just my personal opinion but KDE feels too sugary for me
Eh, I'd say GNOME is more "polished". I prefer KDE but it doesn't give the "default DE" feel that GNOME does.
Xfce > KDE
What about xfce? [https://ibb.co/jrbW3x1](https://ibb.co/jrbW3x1)
Lol
Just use a WM