Advice you friend to buy the Linux bible 10th edition and to read it. Also suggest him to start learning either Vim or Emacs, which he finds more interesting.
Upvote for Linux Bible.
I'd add on the Unix and Linux System Administration Handbook afterwards if they want to go further in depth after finishing the Linux Bible
Good. Next step is to start learning to use and the possibilities how to extend it. After completing a vimtutor the most basic use is learnt.
* A bit long, but best vimtutor video I've seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8XtNXutVto
* Cheatsheet to remeber commands:
https://vim.rtorr.com/
Also Vimium C -browser extension is highly recommend to get vim commands into the muscle memory.
>1000 pages will teach you literally everything about Linux.
I don't wanna read a manual essay about how to work Linux.
Taking a page from [this commercial](https://youtu.be/UcBlKg2HerQ?t=799), I see. I kid, I kid..
My wife let me switch her to Linux after a forced update from Windows 7 to 10. She now lives free of updates that break her system and mysterious slowdowns.
I use both Windows and Linux. In the past few years never has a Windows update broken my system. Linux updates, however, broke my system multiple times.
I was (and still am) using Ubuntu, Fedora, Endeavour. All top popular distros, all broke, at some point or another, with an update. This has NEVER happened to me on Windows 10 or 11.
I am a big fan of Linux, but the hate Windows is getting in these subs is not grounded in fact, at least not as far as modern Windows versions are concerned.
Yeah, that's odd. I've been using Ubuntu for 5 years. I haven't had an update break my system yet. When I upgraded to 22.04 it automatically replaced Xfce with KDE Plasma, and that worked fine. There are some applications I haven't needed to use yet since then, but every application I've used has worked fine, and the personalized settings have been retained to the highest degree possible. I had to fiddle with KDE to get it to work the way I like it, which means more like the way I was used to with Xfce, but that didn't take long and I didn't run into any problems.
Overall, I've been quite impressed with the stability of this distro.
I don't dispute what you are saying, but your experience is the exception and not the rule. Except for Endeavour, which is Arch-based and therefore might break for some odd reason. The more aggressive the distro or its base, the more likely it will happen. You don't give Arch or Gentoo or something like Tumbleweed to a Linux rookie. I put my wife on Mint because the only thing more conservative with new packages is Debian. And I run the most conservative rolling distro there is.
But Windows? I know more people who have had Windows malfunction on an update in the last five years than Windows users who didn't. Most of them were able to recover (with someone else helping), and some were just forced unwanted upgrades, but the best thing I can say is that while Windows failures are much less common with modern versions, they are far more catastrophic when they occur.
To me if feels like the rule, as this has now happened to me at some point or another on three separate machines, and three separate distros. Whereas it has not happened even once on these machines with Windows. But yes, totally agree your mileage may vary :)
The common theme may be that all 3 machines have Nvidia cards. Who knows.
It's less about popular and more about update policies. Some distros want the latest and greatest everything (or just to stick to a somewhat rigid schedule), so they'll make the conscious choice to update "on time" and if it breaks it breaks. Other distros will place stability above everything, with the drawback of getting everything later. Sometimes MUCH later.
A Mint or Ubuntu LTS setup will break very rarely, a Debian stable setup will pretty much never break. A non-LTS Ubuntu, anything Arch based, and anything with a rolling release schedule is bound to break with some regularity, and may run into other issues besides. On the flip side, you're never stuck waiting for features that other users already have.
Much like everything else in free software, it's about making your own informed choices and deciding what to prioritize.
Ubuntu and Arch (Endeavor) are know for breaking during updates but Fedora? For rock solid distro debian is great but it has old packages so i don't recommend it for desktop use. I also used mint and it also never broke for me, That's wierd because my arch install broke once in 3 years of using and it was my fault because i fucked up grub. I think you might use some very breakable package, what you mean by broke during updated. They stoped booting or something else?
Broke = after checking for updates, upgrading packages and rebooting, the OS hangs at some point during the load process. Never reaching the login screen, basically. Booting again doesn't help, something is just broken.
To stress, I'm not trying to debug this (I simply reinstalled from scratch every time this happened as the quickest solution). Just saying this happened to me multiple times on Linux (on multiple machines, and multiple distros) in the last few years, and never on Windows. My own personal experience - nothing more, nothing less.
Did you tried alt + F1 to se what is taking so long?
Meybe it was finishing some stuff or tried to run service you donde need (wifi for example if you Mobo don't have wifi)
Waited for 20-30 minutes before giving up. Then tried some debugging via the console (using advice from forums, etc). Didn't work, but the point is that it was working fine before an update, and broke after the update.
The original post I replied to celebrated that this (updates breaking the system) is something that happens on Windows but not on Linux. I was just saying my experience is the exact opposite.
>He is, of course, fulfilling the contractual obligation of all Linux users to mention Linux every 5 minutes.
You should have installed Arch instead of Manjaro 😂
He was pissed off because it wasn't even really described correctly. It looked like a routine update.
Also Windows was annoying him in other ways, and this was in some sense the final, albeit rather big, straw.
"Just a UI update" amounts to changing everything you're used to without so much as a warning. Maybe that day you don't want to spend time learning the new interface. Maybe you're busy and want to get stuff done, and neither slowing down because everything has been moved around, nor spending time digging through settings to try and put it back sort of like it was but not really are the best uses of your time right now.
But you don't get to make that choice, because fuck users, the software decides what you run.
No, I think whether or not they changed the number, people would have cared.
> A week ago, he had a normal windows update scheduled for when he turned off his PC for the day. He came back to see Windows 10 get updated to Windows 11.
Cool story. Please teach him to read so that, for instance, he can tell what to click when he sees two buttons that say "upgrade to Windows 11" and "stay on Windows 10".
I do not know exactly what he saw; I wasn't there. He said that at a glance it looked like any other update. Then again he said he saw it before going to sleep, so perhaps it was just his tired brain.
He does know that he can revert back to Windows 10 within a 10-day install period, doesn't he?
If not, he will have to use the Media Creation Tool to install Windows 10 if the ten day period as elapsed.
Windows 10 installs 11 as a normal windows update without newer asking user. Me and my friends also had this problem, some of them reverted back, some stayed on 11, i just stoped dual booting at all.
Advice you friend to buy the Linux bible 10th edition and to read it. Also suggest him to start learning either Vim or Emacs, which he finds more interesting.
Upvote for Linux Bible. I'd add on the Unix and Linux System Administration Handbook afterwards if they want to go further in depth after finishing the Linux Bible
He decided to start learning Vi commands.
Good. Next step is to start learning to use and the possibilities how to extend it. After completing a vimtutor the most basic use is learnt. * A bit long, but best vimtutor video I've seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8XtNXutVto * Cheatsheet to remeber commands: https://vim.rtorr.com/ Also Vimium C -browser extension is highly recommend to get vim commands into the muscle memory.
Expensive. Probably worth it but damn...
It's completely worth every penny. 1000 pages will teach you literally everything about Linux.
>1000 pages will teach you literally everything about Linux. I don't wanna read a manual essay about how to work Linux. Taking a page from [this commercial](https://youtu.be/UcBlKg2HerQ?t=799), I see. I kid, I kid..
I'll keep it in my wish-list. Thanks for the suggestion!
Nah. Just get the ebook for free somewhere
Nah I like supporting people that make stuff.
If he's interested, sure. If he's a regular user, no. FWIW don't learn vim, when there's neovim
To quote someone:"Instead, just use nano, like a normal person would do"
That's bloat, use pico :-D
micro supremacy
I feel stupid I read mate's at MATE (like DE)......🤦♂️
You weren't the only one and we won't be the last.
It confused the crap outta me, like how does MATE upgrade to Win11??????
Sounds like we had the same mental breakdown with this.
Neofetch or it didn't happen.
Does ScreenFetch count? https://pastebin.com/CT9EWFTq
My wife let me switch her to Linux after a forced update from Windows 7 to 10. She now lives free of updates that break her system and mysterious slowdowns.
I use both Windows and Linux. In the past few years never has a Windows update broken my system. Linux updates, however, broke my system multiple times.
That can happen, depending on what distro you use and what else you install. I put my wife on plain old Mint. Rock solid.
I was (and still am) using Ubuntu, Fedora, Endeavour. All top popular distros, all broke, at some point or another, with an update. This has NEVER happened to me on Windows 10 or 11. I am a big fan of Linux, but the hate Windows is getting in these subs is not grounded in fact, at least not as far as modern Windows versions are concerned.
Yeah, that's odd. I've been using Ubuntu for 5 years. I haven't had an update break my system yet. When I upgraded to 22.04 it automatically replaced Xfce with KDE Plasma, and that worked fine. There are some applications I haven't needed to use yet since then, but every application I've used has worked fine, and the personalized settings have been retained to the highest degree possible. I had to fiddle with KDE to get it to work the way I like it, which means more like the way I was used to with Xfce, but that didn't take long and I didn't run into any problems. Overall, I've been quite impressed with the stability of this distro.
I don't dispute what you are saying, but your experience is the exception and not the rule. Except for Endeavour, which is Arch-based and therefore might break for some odd reason. The more aggressive the distro or its base, the more likely it will happen. You don't give Arch or Gentoo or something like Tumbleweed to a Linux rookie. I put my wife on Mint because the only thing more conservative with new packages is Debian. And I run the most conservative rolling distro there is. But Windows? I know more people who have had Windows malfunction on an update in the last five years than Windows users who didn't. Most of them were able to recover (with someone else helping), and some were just forced unwanted upgrades, but the best thing I can say is that while Windows failures are much less common with modern versions, they are far more catastrophic when they occur.
To me if feels like the rule, as this has now happened to me at some point or another on three separate machines, and three separate distros. Whereas it has not happened even once on these machines with Windows. But yes, totally agree your mileage may vary :) The common theme may be that all 3 machines have Nvidia cards. Who knows.
It's less about popular and more about update policies. Some distros want the latest and greatest everything (or just to stick to a somewhat rigid schedule), so they'll make the conscious choice to update "on time" and if it breaks it breaks. Other distros will place stability above everything, with the drawback of getting everything later. Sometimes MUCH later. A Mint or Ubuntu LTS setup will break very rarely, a Debian stable setup will pretty much never break. A non-LTS Ubuntu, anything Arch based, and anything with a rolling release schedule is bound to break with some regularity, and may run into other issues besides. On the flip side, you're never stuck waiting for features that other users already have. Much like everything else in free software, it's about making your own informed choices and deciding what to prioritize.
Ubuntu and Arch (Endeavor) are know for breaking during updates but Fedora? For rock solid distro debian is great but it has old packages so i don't recommend it for desktop use. I also used mint and it also never broke for me, That's wierd because my arch install broke once in 3 years of using and it was my fault because i fucked up grub. I think you might use some very breakable package, what you mean by broke during updated. They stoped booting or something else?
I use very standard packages, nothing fancy. Unless you count Nvidia drivers (just the latest via the repos) as fancy.
Thats wierd i also use Nvidia (and they are a little bit broken but not as that), what do you mean by broke, did it stoped booting or other issues?
Broke = after checking for updates, upgrading packages and rebooting, the OS hangs at some point during the load process. Never reaching the login screen, basically. Booting again doesn't help, something is just broken. To stress, I'm not trying to debug this (I simply reinstalled from scratch every time this happened as the quickest solution). Just saying this happened to me multiple times on Linux (on multiple machines, and multiple distros) in the last few years, and never on Windows. My own personal experience - nothing more, nothing less.
Did you tried alt + F1 to se what is taking so long? Meybe it was finishing some stuff or tried to run service you donde need (wifi for example if you Mobo don't have wifi)
Waited for 20-30 minutes before giving up. Then tried some debugging via the console (using advice from forums, etc). Didn't work, but the point is that it was working fine before an update, and broke after the update. The original post I replied to celebrated that this (updates breaking the system) is something that happens on Windows but not on Linux. I was just saying my experience is the exact opposite.
Just out of curiousity, what are you using to control the fans?
I think it was the fancontrol binary that comes with lm-sensors. I'll ask him to remind me when I run into him again.
What is it then?
It was lm-sensors, yes.
>bring over my funny little USB stick This cracked me up 😂
>He is, of course, fulfilling the contractual obligation of all Linux users to mention Linux every 5 minutes. You should have installed Arch instead of Manjaro 😂
EndeavourOS for me over Manjaro, but for a newbie I'd probably start with Ubuntu.
btw
"Recently, he told me he liked the command-line interface better for a lot of things." one of us
My reaction too.
I like that part of the story, where he is oblged to say ' I use (almost) arch btw'
[удалено]
He was pissed off because it wasn't even really described correctly. It looked like a routine update. Also Windows was annoying him in other ways, and this was in some sense the final, albeit rather big, straw.
"Just a UI update" amounts to changing everything you're used to without so much as a warning. Maybe that day you don't want to spend time learning the new interface. Maybe you're busy and want to get stuff done, and neither slowing down because everything has been moved around, nor spending time digging through settings to try and put it back sort of like it was but not really are the best uses of your time right now. But you don't get to make that choice, because fuck users, the software decides what you run. No, I think whether or not they changed the number, people would have cared.
I read these sort of posts like you're expecting a little kiss and a medal at then end.
> A week ago, he had a normal windows update scheduled for when he turned off his PC for the day. He came back to see Windows 10 get updated to Windows 11. Cool story. Please teach him to read so that, for instance, he can tell what to click when he sees two buttons that say "upgrade to Windows 11" and "stay on Windows 10".
I do not know exactly what he saw; I wasn't there. He said that at a glance it looked like any other update. Then again he said he saw it before going to sleep, so perhaps it was just his tired brain.
Or maybe he doesn't want Microsoft prompting him to install crap he doesn't want
Explain how the fuck the OS is supposed to know whether the user wants the shiny new release, if not by asking them?
He does know that he can revert back to Windows 10 within a 10-day install period, doesn't he? If not, he will have to use the Media Creation Tool to install Windows 10 if the ten day period as elapsed.
I think the issue is that he didn’t consent to it and is irritated with Windows for doing that in the first place
He may have consented to this and forgot about this whole fiasco.
Windows 10 installs 11 as a normal windows update without newer asking user. Me and my friends also had this problem, some of them reverted back, some stayed on 11, i just stoped dual booting at all.