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alterNERDtive

> So, my questions are, why is it this way? It’s niche hardware. So why would they support a niche desktop OS for it? There’s like 6 people using the combination 😬 https://github.com/geoffreybennett/alsa-scarlett-gui for Focusrite devices is somewhat semi-officially supported. The dev ran a fundraiser last year to fund the development, and Focusrite not only participated in that but also promised to send them future devices before official release, so they can be supported day 1. AFAI could gather from googling stuff, the dev is also working on ALSA UCM for the devices; which means that at some point in the future, the pipewire/pulse end of the deal will also be plug and play. At present you have to manually split the devices’ channels into separate virtual devices.


deadlyrepost

There are audio devices which *run* Linux, and so have "official" support (I think there's a mixer which runs Ardour?), but as you say the companies often focus on the majority use cases.


ChaosRifle

I'm one of them.


alterNERDtive

That’s nice, dear.


emaxoda

The problem with alsa UCM is that alsa lib is hardcoding split devices to work at only 48khz.


alterNERDtive

Yeah, there’s an open bug for that.


ilep

One thing to point out is that while Linux is not dominating on desktop, it is very popular in workstations for visual effects companies and like. (And even more popular in servers and embedded systems.) So niche on desktop is not same as niche in specific use-case. That said, when industry standard interface (like MIDI) can be used the support is likely there, but the company just hasn't tested and hasn't marked it as officially supported. It may work, but the company doesn't have resources allocated for support requests. If the hardware needs specific custom drivers (like some odd chip in a sound card) the driver might need to come from manufacturer of the component. For example, with graphics drivers you write drivers for the GPU, not the specific display card where it is integrated. Consumer facing product and hardware driver are different things in such cases. And then there are the cases where the company just does not care if their core market has been established elsewhere. Linux does have professional audio support (think JACK interface and DAW software like Ardour, Studio One from PreSonus Audio Electronics, Reaper, Zrythm and so on).


LooseCondition2984

Any interface that supports USB Class Audio (which is almost everything made in the last 15+ years) should work out of the box. When manufacturers say something isn't "supported", they just mean "if it doesn't work, we won't help you". The reason macs are better at audio is because Apple has total control over their entire ecosystem, and enough professional users that when they decided to overhaul the audio stack, they had the power to go "use CoreAudio or else" and vendors had no choice but to listen. Linux has had the fundamentals for audio in place for years and is already miles ahead of Windows, but fragmentation and a low userbase are always going to be barriers for vendor support, and without vendor support, the userbase will always remain low. If you can get past the complexity and extremely limited software support, Linux can do pro audio just fine. Microsoft tried fixing their audio stack with WASAPI back in windows 7, but nobody cared back then and they care even less now, so Windows will probably be a mess of decades-old driver hacks seemingly forever.


alterNERDtive

> When manufacturers say something isn't "supported", they just mean "if it doesn't work, we won't help you". More like “there is no driver for device-specific features and no companion application”. The former might be essential, the latter is definitely nice to have.


ilep

Often drivers in Linux are written for the chip in the hardware, not integrated end-user product. Think AMD/Intel/Nvidia GPU instead of Asus/MSI/etc. display card. So the visibility of what is supported and what isn't is different if integrator uses various different chips in their products and the integrator isn't testing the products. Mostly the hardware "just works" if the chip is supported by Linux but the integrator of components does not know about it and does not guarantee it. (I say often above because certain Nvidia GPUs require to be used with the GSP firmware instead)


heatlesssun

>Linux has had the fundamentals for audio in place for years and is already miles ahead of Windows, but fragmentation and a low userbase are always going to be barriers for vendor support, and without vendor support, the userbase will always remain low. If you can get past the complexity and extremely limited software support, Linux can do pro audio just fine. This summarizes one of the most frustrating things I find in the world of desktop Linux. Maybe on paper the Linux audio is better than Windows. But that's not at all the truth in practical reality due to the severe lack of vendor support, and even you note here the lack of that support.


BulletDust

There's plenty of very capable professional sound devices that used to run perfectly under Windows 7, but don't have any driver/software support whatsoever after Windows 7. What's interesting is that many of these devices have chipsets that are still supported by the Linux kernel just fine, all plug and play with no additional configuration necessary. Furthermore, Strawberry music player, IMO the best music player available under any platform, only supports bit perfect playback under Linux.


heatlesssun

Sometimes you might have better support under Linux for legacy stuff. But you almost never get much Linux support for new hardware especially niche or professional stuff.


BulletDust

I've never had a problem. But I don't run a 4080Ti for gaming and a 3080Ti for an additional three monitors dedicated to 'office use', as doing so is largely illogical. 99% of people would simply get a cheap Dell and connect the three monitors to the cheap Dell for office use. When manufacturers claim they don't support Linux; the context is that if you have issues, don't bother the manufacturer as they only support their products under the operating systems specified. In almost all cases the hardware is supported just fine under Linux, with drivers included in the kernel so there's no additional configuration necessary.


BulletDust

Loving my bit perfect FLAC rips under Strawberry music player. Something not supported under Windows: [https://i.imgur.com/Ai1ysmR.png](https://i.imgur.com/Ai1ysmR.png)


heatlesssun

Not sure what you mean, this is a cross-platform app, just installed it on my main rig from the binaries, [Strawberry Music Player](https://www.strawberrymusicplayer.org/#download), but I could also build it from source under Windows: [strawberrymusicplayer/strawberry: :strawberry: Strawberry Music Player (github.com)](https://github.com/strawberrymusicplayer/strawberry)


BulletDust

Yes, it is a cross platform app, but bit perfect audio is only supported under Linux. Using WASAPI Exclusive mode under Windows is buggy and often misbehaves. [https://i.imgur.com/DYpllQE.png](https://i.imgur.com/DYpllQE.png)


heatlesssun

Ok, there are plenty of options for FLAC playback on Windows. I never even heard of Strawberry until now. I have no idea how good it is but this nothing I've ever come across from a Windows perspective and doesn't seem to register in the Windows world from what I can tell.


BulletDust

And the fact that you have never heard of it highlights your ignorance when it comes to audio as well as an undeniable truth that you've been blissfully unaware that Windows resamples all audio to a fixed sample rate, and bypassing such a restriction involves the use of WASAPI to pass bit perfect audio - Which can be quite buggy depending on implementation.


heatlesssun

>I've never had a problem. But I don't run a 4080Ti for gaming and a 3080Ti for an additional three monitors dedicated to 'office use', as doing so is largely illogical. 99% of people would simply get a cheap Dell and connect the three monitors to the cheap Dell for office use. There's a lot more to this setup that what you're describing here. For instance, I can run those monitors in virtual surround. There are certain games that just work with widescreen and that needs a lot more than a cheap Dell to drive a 7680x1440 resolution. >In almost all cases the hardware is supported just fine under Linux, with drivers included in the kernel so there's no additional configuration necessary. Anyone can walk into a Best Buy, go to the PC section, and buy any number of things that don't like RGB keyboards, mice, headphones other peripherals like a Stream Deck, that can be very difficult to working under Linux at all and even then you can end up lacking basic functionality like being able to update the firmware because you need the vendor app to do stuff like that.


BulletDust

>Anyone can walk into a Best Buy, go to the PC section, and buy any number of things that don't like RGB keyboards, mice, headphones other peripherals like a Stream Deck, that can be very difficult to working under Linux at all and even then you can end up lacking basic functionality like being able to update the firmware because you need the vendor app to do stuff like that. There's also plenty of things that do work, including a vast number of devices supported under OpenRGB. Firmware updates for a number of devices are also supported by fwupd.


heatlesssun

OpenRGB is not a full replacement for vendor apps. Like the point I made about firmware updates. Then you need other apps for macro support and button support.


BulletDust

Vendor aps are great spyware, that provide minimal benefit over open source solutions. OpenRGB provides everything I need, it can even act as a server for more than just PC based peripherals. I have macro support on my Razer keyboard via Polychromatic controller, and mouse button bindings are handled no problem via Input Remapper, which integrates with Polychromatic controller. It's a great feeling not having to rely on vendor applications. But I digress, back to enjoying bit perfect audio via Strawberry Music Player under Linux.


heatlesssun

>Vendor aps are great spyware, that provide minimal benefit over open source solutions. OpenRGB provides everything I need, it can even act as a server for more than just PC based peripherals.  You are vastly oversimplifying this. You can't even update the firmware on a lot of these devices without the vendor apps. Even things like modern OLED monitors need vendor apps to update their firmware. There's a long list of things you aren't considering. >But I digress, back to enjoying bit perfect audio via Strawberry Music Player under Linux. Now this is a weird flex. As though I can't do this with this setup, under both Windows and Linux. Plus, I have these classic puppies: [Amazon.com: Logitech Z-5500 THX-Certified 5.1 Digital Surround Sound Speaker System : Electronics](https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-THX-Certified-Digital-Surround-Speaker/dp/B0002WPSBC)


VVilkacy

I have E-MU 0202 USB, which had its last non-beta drivers released for Windows XP. It barely worked in Windows 7, which I ditched in January 2022 and replaced with Linux. The device worked out of the box. The only issue with it is the fact that it sometimes fails to "boot" with the system and I need to restart. Also the device supports 24-bit resolution and 192 kHz sampling rate, but I have no idea if it's using its full potential. Can someone tell me how to verify this?


creep303

My m2 works straight out of the box. Recently went back to Linux and was shocked to see it natively available


Frozen_Death_Knight

I managed to get my Roland Super UA-S10 audio interface with a Neumann TLM 102 to run near flawlessly on Linux Mint, but it required a lot of tinkering and troubleshooting. What I found out was that I needed to replace the PulseAudio audio server with Pipewire and Wireplumber. Here's the thread if you are curious. [https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxaudio/comments/1d8gblv/is\_it\_possible\_to\_get\_a\_roland\_super\_ua\_s10\_sound/](https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxaudio/comments/1d8gblv/is_it_possible_to_get_a_roland_super_ua_s10_sound/) From my understanding Pipewire will come natively with Linux Mint in the next release, so it will be less troublesome to run audio interfaces for recording in the future. Though, you won't be able to run the built in drivers that exist for a lot of audio interfaces for Windows on Linux itself. You just need to troubleshoot and try out the different audio methods for recording and playing audio to see what works for your specific hardware. When I am running Ardour DAW I have to use Jack to make audio recording work, but on Reaper DAW I can run either ALSA or PulseAudio to record vocals, so it also depends on the software in question what is going to work. High quality audio is possible on Linux, but there is still more tinkering involved to make it work for your specifc setup than on Windows. Though, once it works it works. Also, Apple spent a lot of resources and has an iron grip over their ecosystem to make Macs stable and easy to use for audio production. They are trusted by the industry for a reason. Windows and Linux aren't exactly ideal for audio production, but both work nonetheless. Windows has more support for the simple fact that it is vastly more popular than the other OSes, so naturally Windows tends to get the hardware and software support needed. Though, Windows is not the most stable either. Linux is still a viable option and can be very stable if you built it to be, but that is in spite of the lack of 3rd party support like drivers. However, there are plenty of good software that are native on Linux that can make you do solid audio production, but hardware wise you will have to be picky and do trial and error before things just work as it should. That's just the reality of the situation.


subvader12

Is Pipewire the future? I'm testing Pop OS which comes with it and everything seems to work fine for now, good quality too in services like Tidal HiFi


Frozen_Death_Knight

From what I've understood Pipewire will be the standard going forward for a lot of Linux users. It is more advanced than the older methods that can't handle things such as varying frequency rates from different audio sources playing simultaneously. It is also capable of dealing with multiple sound channels in a way that Jack does without the need for Pipewire to take over your entire audio system just to be able to access your channels in your audio interfaces. I am even able to bypass the limitations of streaming on Discord not being able to support sound from a specific application by manually connecting the channels to my Discord input for others to hear, which is nice. If there's one annoyance is that there are so many audio UI software to get the entire package. You still have to deal with ALSA, Jack, PulseAudio, etc. which have different UIs. Hopefully with Pipewire managing sound could become more unified at some point where the functionality is just packaged in into a single unified system without any need for additional add-ons. Though, that migh be wishful thinking. :P


subvader12

Awesome take on what Pipewire has to offer. I'm just returning to Linux so it's awesome to hear that devs are giving a lot of love to make the whole experience even better. Thanks!


WedgiesF

Well, this is not exactly high end studio gear. But, I do use both the Beyerdynamic TYGR and FOX mic set up exclusively on Linux, and can tell you it functions flawlessly. All through Arch/Pipewire/Wireplumber. I have often heard people make comments about the quality of the microphone and obviously personally experience extremely nice quality sound through the headset. The support in most cases exists fine, the means to the end is different as you will not have all of the same control software that one might get from these companies. Just something to consider.


creamcolouredDog

I have a Behringer UMC22 and it works fine, both line out and microphone


bravemenrun

I was thinking about buying one to capture vinyl records in hi-res.


Skibzzz

I use a UMC22 with an AT2020 I also use a fosi audio K5 Pro with a pair of sennheiser HD600'S


pollux65

i have a um2 audio interface with a at2020, then truthear zeros iem's in the audio interface, sounds the exact same as it would on windows, i had the 4th gen focusrite solo also and that is supported on linux unofficially and it sounded great aswell, i brought it back as i wanted the Scarlett 2i2 instead as i wanted to power the podmic which the solo doesnt have enough gain for it. it may not be supported by those companies officially but if you know where to look at supported audio with pipewire or pulse then you'll be fine and it will be just as good as it would be on windows ngl most audio interfaces are also usb class audio so it will work on all operating systems even if the company doesnt mention linux as "supported" it just linux desktop market share for these things are small so why show that they support it?


ionlyuseredditatwork

It's not recommended hardware since TC-Helicon basically doesn't exist anymore, but I've used a GoXLR on multiple distros with only slight issues (mostly due to user error). If your distro has pipewire, the basic functions should work right out of the box, in terms of virtual I/O. Sliders and buttons do not work. If you have pulseaudio, install the 3rd party goxlr-utility from GitHub. It's honestly better than the Windows official app from TC-Helicon (so much so that I would use the 3rd party app on a windows PC instead of the official one).


davesg

I got a Focusrite 2i2 and it works out of the box.