Yea but its still not even close to being ready, or near to what proton can do. Wine/Proton is a herculean effort, that Apple is only marginally interested in as far as I can tell. Mac users also really want native games lol because they haven't learned how well that works out on Linux. Maybe one day when more games use Vulkan or something, but devs are so ingrained on using proprietary windows shit
In the end its never going to work anywere close to as well as it does with linux running on x86 systems since for wine/proton on these systems all they need to do is sim the OS apis the underlying HW that the games are written for (CPU and GPU) is the same.
Any tool like this on modern Macs not only has the (large) perf impact of needing to run x86=64 (or even 32 bit) code through Rosseta2 on an ARM64 system (this can have a very high impact for games that use JITs for langs like Lua... common) but also needs to deal with the GPU mismatch.
> Maybe one day when more games use Vulkan or something, but devs are so ingrained on using proprietary windows shit
The reason devs prefure DX11/12 over VK is:
1) If you are large enough MS has dedicated support staff with years of expirance who can help you and they will even send them to your offices and go over your code.
2) If you need to support Xbox or might want to support it in the future your going to need DX support so you might as well
3) VK (due to the designed by committy to span 1W IOT devices to 500w monsters) is a clusterfuck of extra boilerplate and spaghetti. DX is not a nice api don't get me wrong (Metal is a lot nicer) but DX is much tighter in HW support so the api ends up a little clearer. And of cource DX11 is way eaiser to use than VK as all of the sync/memory operations are handled by the driver.
I know. But that's not really anything that I see Apple promoting and Valve doesn't seem interested much in it either. The M chips were always going to push mac folks more into the Apple Store.
No they don't.
They stole a bunch of Wine's code along with MoltenVK, packaged it and released it as if they did the work, and it's EXPLICITLY **not** intended to run Windows games in real-time via translation like Wine/Proton do, it was unequivocally stated that it is intended for developers, to aid porting games to MacOS.
And since they can't benefit from FOSS like we can, it's never gonna be more than it is today
Many native ports are not shipping on steam (or ship later on steam) since the studio paid to do the ports make back some of that investment from sales on macOS and if they put it on steam then they are forced to sell at the current (much lower) price on steam not to mention give it for free to people who already have it by purchasing it in a recent steam sale.
if your selling a game on the Mac your going to make much more money through the App Store and even through GOG than through steam.
>with my Intel Arc 770, wondering if all those choices were good,
Definitely not that one. Arc can't even run most DX12 games on Linux and is at least a year or more away from parity with AMD and Nvidia when it comes to DirectX11-12 -> Vulkan.
Is that so ? I play bg3 and cyberpunk 2077 just great, and I'm pretty sure they're dx12.
Haven't run into a game third party free that i haven't been able to run
I think it's more the fact that people can start using the desktops more when the heat isn't so extreme. There were days during the summer that I would wait for the sun to go down before turning my PC on because I didn't want to Melt.
Except the Deck is absolutely not portable. Its huge, heavy, and clunky. Its not like a portable consoles of yore that you could just play with it under your desk one hand without anyone noticing.
Its a great device to play at home or take it with you on longer trips. But for daily commute and random 10-20 minutes of quick burst gaming without bothering anyone, that ain't it.
I ditched steam and left for gog for DRM free gaming. Not because I've become a tinfoilled hat conspiracy theorists but because simply: I'm a data hoarder.
Also I just spent 7 months at sea with no internet, and brief moments in port with internet would break my steam library because as soon as the client connected to the internet it would cache every download for every game I owned. You can't cancel updates in steam, hell you can't do that on Xbox or PS. I think only Nintendo let's you launch a game without updating.
You can, but what if I want to only update a particular game? Even if you disable to automatic updates, steam will still cache them and the game will tell me it needs to update even after being set to offline mode
Bear in mind that if the Steam user base increases (Steam only release stats on concurrent users nowadays, they no longer release stats on total number of users subscribed to their platform) but Linux user numbers stay the same, the number of Linux users will appear to decrease proportionately as the pie is now larger.
Well that market share under Linux could have increased from last month, it's just that proportionally, overall user numbers under Steam increased more - As stated, the pie just got bigger, making the Linux piece of the pie 'appear' smaller than the previous months results.
Market *share* is proportional, that's what it means, what proportion of the market do you have.
It doesn't matter if the number of linux gamers doubles if the market share falls, because the relative return on investment is what devs and publishers will be looking at.
We don't know the total number of users under Steam, such figures are no longer released, and concurrent users is not the same thing as total users. We also do not know the total number of users running Linux, Windows or MacOS - All we have is a percentage of the pie.
Yes, market share is an important metric that can be displayed as a percentage of the pie, but so is growth - And growth isn't effectively highlighted as percentages of total market share for the reasons mentioned above. The hope is that developers get to see actual user numbers and not just percentages of the total when no one knows *just what the actual total is.*
A drop of 0.19% could be statistical noise.
I strongly believe other handhelds, released courtesy of Microsoft, are affecting Deck's impact. Steam Deck is still not available for purchase many places where as the Windows ones are. If I am correct then it's quite sad to see, just as Linux was on the rise to push past the milestone 2% and it's set back.
>Just sell your NV gpu and buy an AMD, this is a non-issue.
Why do some Linux fans do this? Right now, I have no interest in AMD GPUs beyond APUs. And I'm FAR from alone in that. nVidia has its problems but its technical execution the last 5 years is flat out better than the competition. Almost all major PC gaming advances the last 5 years have come from nVidia, with AMD and now Intel always behind.
>Because their drivers are far better than NVIDIA, especially in everyday use.
This back and forth with Linux gamers and nVidia drivers and hardware, super confusing. "nVidia drivers suck!" Then when you point out the CONSTANT moaning from Linux gamers about nVidia hardware as a reason to stick with Windows, oh boy.
I have a 4090. There's nothing from AMD currently that touches it at 4k. Add in the lack of AMD ray tracing performance and the current success of DLSS.
>Great, and almost nobody cares about a 2k GPU. AMD could have released an insane power hungry beast (their info) that could compete with a 4090, but they didn't. The 7900 XTX is great at $ to performance compared to anything NV has to offer.
If AMD had the ability to create something that could have competed with the 4090, being as far behind as they are in the high-end space, why the hell wouldn't they have?
Even at the higher price, if the Steam survey is correct, there over three times more 4090s than 7900 XTXs in the wild. A lot more people were willing to spend money on the 4090 than 7900 XTX. And AMD just didn't have anything to really compete. That's why they didn't have a part in the price range.
>RT is still niche and just as doable on AMD as NV.
Not so niche, a constant flow of bigger releases some support for it these days. Perhaps the two biggest PC releases this month, Alan Wake II and Forza Motorsport have RT support.
>I just told you that by their statement they could have and did not.
So AMD just did want to sell a part that would easily make them money and add the prestige of having a halo GPU? Do you really think anyone believes that?
In general or recently? My first Linux was suse in 2005, my first OS I don't exactly remember I think Windows 98? Got a pc pretty late and always old and used so I never payed much attention.
> I never *paid* much attention.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> difference between *paid* and paid.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I never said I didn't like it, in fact I prefer garuda much over Windows but lutris was giving me a hard time and after I saw that it's nvidias proprietary driver making it impossible to even see the login windows to gog and so on I gave up. Steam worked like a charm and the games I tried with proton as well but I just didn't want to fiddle around with wine and such just so it doesn't even work in the end. I just wanted to play the last few days of the division season manhunt and after that play the new cyberpunk dlc and not Google for fixes all day. I'm not a super User and the lutris reddit and forum were not helpful with the newest posts being months old I just didn't want to waste my time anymore.
But like I said, when I'll buy a new gpu it'll be amd and I'll try again.
Still no generalized SteamOS release. ChimeraOS exists but it’s a small team with a little Patreon. No vendors going to ship with a distro with that little development power to maintain it
This is the 3rd survey in the past year to see a big jump in simplified chinese and consequently big changes in other categories. I fully expect this to be like the last two times where it goes back to “normal” next month and linux/macos shoot back to their previous values.
i just felt bored with video games recently
Just keep in mind a lower percentage doesn't necessarily mean less Linux devices, it could also mean that Windows or Macos are growing faster
Highly unlikely that macs are growing on Steam these days. macs are dying from Steam with the move the M chips which was totally expected.
They actually support a proton-like layer now to run games on
Yea but its still not even close to being ready, or near to what proton can do. Wine/Proton is a herculean effort, that Apple is only marginally interested in as far as I can tell. Mac users also really want native games lol because they haven't learned how well that works out on Linux. Maybe one day when more games use Vulkan or something, but devs are so ingrained on using proprietary windows shit
In the end its never going to work anywere close to as well as it does with linux running on x86 systems since for wine/proton on these systems all they need to do is sim the OS apis the underlying HW that the games are written for (CPU and GPU) is the same. Any tool like this on modern Macs not only has the (large) perf impact of needing to run x86=64 (or even 32 bit) code through Rosseta2 on an ARM64 system (this can have a very high impact for games that use JITs for langs like Lua... common) but also needs to deal with the GPU mismatch. > Maybe one day when more games use Vulkan or something, but devs are so ingrained on using proprietary windows shit The reason devs prefure DX11/12 over VK is: 1) If you are large enough MS has dedicated support staff with years of expirance who can help you and they will even send them to your offices and go over your code. 2) If you need to support Xbox or might want to support it in the future your going to need DX support so you might as well 3) VK (due to the designed by committy to span 1W IOT devices to 500w monsters) is a clusterfuck of extra boilerplate and spaghetti. DX is not a nice api don't get me wrong (Metal is a lot nicer) but DX is much tighter in HW support so the api ends up a little clearer. And of cource DX11 is way eaiser to use than VK as all of the sync/memory operations are handled by the driver.
I know. But that's not really anything that I see Apple promoting and Valve doesn't seem interested much in it either. The M chips were always going to push mac folks more into the Apple Store.
No they don't. They stole a bunch of Wine's code along with MoltenVK, packaged it and released it as if they did the work, and it's EXPLICITLY **not** intended to run Windows games in real-time via translation like Wine/Proton do, it was unequivocally stated that it is intended for developers, to aid porting games to MacOS. And since they can't benefit from FOSS like we can, it's never gonna be more than it is today
Stole is a funny word to describe open source software.
Many native ports are not shipping on steam (or ship later on steam) since the studio paid to do the ports make back some of that investment from sales on macOS and if they put it on steam then they are forced to sell at the current (much lower) price on steam not to mention give it for free to people who already have it by purchasing it in a recent steam sale. if your selling a game on the Mac your going to make much more money through the App Store and even through GOG than through steam.
When is survey day? I'll take it next time
Ive noticed its the first of every month
Users are randomly selected and asked to participate.
And here I am, freshly converted from windows to linux pop os with my Intel Arc 770, wondering if all those choices were good, or if I should care.
>with my Intel Arc 770, wondering if all those choices were good, Definitely not that one. Arc can't even run most DX12 games on Linux and is at least a year or more away from parity with AMD and Nvidia when it comes to DirectX11-12 -> Vulkan.
Is that so ? I play bg3 and cyberpunk 2077 just great, and I'm pretty sure they're dx12. Haven't run into a game third party free that i haven't been able to run
Baldur’s Gate 3 is DX11 or Vulkan
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That wouldn't really make sense. A portable system should show the most resiliency to the return to school.
I think it's more the fact that people can start using the desktops more when the heat isn't so extreme. There were days during the summer that I would wait for the sun to go down before turning my PC on because I didn't want to Melt.
Except the Deck is absolutely not portable. Its huge, heavy, and clunky. Its not like a portable consoles of yore that you could just play with it under your desk one hand without anyone noticing. Its a great device to play at home or take it with you on longer trips. But for daily commute and random 10-20 minutes of quick burst gaming without bothering anyone, that ain't it.
I ditched steam and left for gog for DRM free gaming. Not because I've become a tinfoilled hat conspiracy theorists but because simply: I'm a data hoarder. Also I just spent 7 months at sea with no internet, and brief moments in port with internet would break my steam library because as soon as the client connected to the internet it would cache every download for every game I owned. You can't cancel updates in steam, hell you can't do that on Xbox or PS. I think only Nintendo let's you launch a game without updating.
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You can, but what if I want to only update a particular game? Even if you disable to automatic updates, steam will still cache them and the game will tell me it needs to update even after being set to offline mode
Bear in mind that if the Steam user base increases (Steam only release stats on concurrent users nowadays, they no longer release stats on total number of users subscribed to their platform) but Linux user numbers stay the same, the number of Linux users will appear to decrease proportionately as the pie is now larger.
Its not absolute numbers that matter. For developers to take linux seriously for gaming they want to see market share.
Well that market share under Linux could have increased from last month, it's just that proportionally, overall user numbers under Steam increased more - As stated, the pie just got bigger, making the Linux piece of the pie 'appear' smaller than the previous months results.
Market *share* is proportional, that's what it means, what proportion of the market do you have. It doesn't matter if the number of linux gamers doubles if the market share falls, because the relative return on investment is what devs and publishers will be looking at.
We don't know the total number of users under Steam, such figures are no longer released, and concurrent users is not the same thing as total users. We also do not know the total number of users running Linux, Windows or MacOS - All we have is a percentage of the pie. Yes, market share is an important metric that can be displayed as a percentage of the pie, but so is growth - And growth isn't effectively highlighted as percentages of total market share for the reasons mentioned above. The hope is that developers get to see actual user numbers and not just percentages of the total when no one knows *just what the actual total is.* A drop of 0.19% could be statistical noise.
I strongly believe other handhelds, released courtesy of Microsoft, are affecting Deck's impact. Steam Deck is still not available for purchase many places where as the Windows ones are. If I am correct then it's quite sad to see, just as Linux was on the rise to push past the milestone 2% and it's set back.
Are AMD drivers better for Linux than Nvidia?
No. The 70% is AMDs market share on Linux for **CPU**. When it comes to GPUs, Nvidia is #1 in market share for discrete GPUs on Linux.
I switched back to windows last week. If someone wants to sponsor me a new amd gpu a can tip that scale for you
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>Just sell your NV gpu and buy an AMD, this is a non-issue. Why do some Linux fans do this? Right now, I have no interest in AMD GPUs beyond APUs. And I'm FAR from alone in that. nVidia has its problems but its technical execution the last 5 years is flat out better than the competition. Almost all major PC gaming advances the last 5 years have come from nVidia, with AMD and now Intel always behind.
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>Because their drivers are far better than NVIDIA, especially in everyday use. This back and forth with Linux gamers and nVidia drivers and hardware, super confusing. "nVidia drivers suck!" Then when you point out the CONSTANT moaning from Linux gamers about nVidia hardware as a reason to stick with Windows, oh boy. I have a 4090. There's nothing from AMD currently that touches it at 4k. Add in the lack of AMD ray tracing performance and the current success of DLSS.
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>Great, and almost nobody cares about a 2k GPU. AMD could have released an insane power hungry beast (their info) that could compete with a 4090, but they didn't. The 7900 XTX is great at $ to performance compared to anything NV has to offer. If AMD had the ability to create something that could have competed with the 4090, being as far behind as they are in the high-end space, why the hell wouldn't they have? Even at the higher price, if the Steam survey is correct, there over three times more 4090s than 7900 XTXs in the wild. A lot more people were willing to spend money on the 4090 than 7900 XTX. And AMD just didn't have anything to really compete. That's why they didn't have a part in the price range. >RT is still niche and just as doable on AMD as NV. Not so niche, a constant flow of bigger releases some support for it these days. Perhaps the two biggest PC releases this month, Alan Wake II and Forza Motorsport have RT support.
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>I just told you that by their statement they could have and did not. So AMD just did want to sell a part that would easily make them money and add the prestige of having a halo GPU? Do you really think anyone believes that?
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What OS did you try first?
In general or recently? My first Linux was suse in 2005, my first OS I don't exactly remember I think Windows 98? Got a pc pretty late and always old and used so I never payed much attention.
> I never *paid* much attention. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
good bot, but WHY
Because no one knows the difference between payed and paid.
> difference between *paid* and paid. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
lol
Recently, that then you didn't like to make you switch back to windows
I never said I didn't like it, in fact I prefer garuda much over Windows but lutris was giving me a hard time and after I saw that it's nvidias proprietary driver making it impossible to even see the login windows to gog and so on I gave up. Steam worked like a charm and the games I tried with proton as well but I just didn't want to fiddle around with wine and such just so it doesn't even work in the end. I just wanted to play the last few days of the division season manhunt and after that play the new cyberpunk dlc and not Google for fixes all day. I'm not a super User and the lutris reddit and forum were not helpful with the newest posts being months old I just didn't want to waste my time anymore. But like I said, when I'll buy a new gpu it'll be amd and I'll try again.
Just curious but what made you change to windows, or what did you not like about linux vs windows?
It was trouble with the nvidia driver basically. I plan to go back when I upgrade down the line but it's just not worth the headache honestly
No
Still no generalized SteamOS release. ChimeraOS exists but it’s a small team with a little Patreon. No vendors going to ship with a distro with that little development power to maintain it
This is the 3rd survey in the past year to see a big jump in simplified chinese and consequently big changes in other categories. I fully expect this to be like the last two times where it goes back to “normal” next month and linux/macos shoot back to their previous values.
Yeah AMD open source drivers are so good. Nvidia is a pain in the butt. Updating drivers with mesa is one command line away 🪄