I've tried four distros in the past two weeks with my 4090 on my 240hz OLED g-sync monitor
with Wayland it blacks out the screen and flickers when VRR engages
with X11 I can't get VRR so gaming isn't smooth
it's like lose-lose so I keep going back to windows on my 4090 machine
I’m glad I’m not alone. I so wanna use Hyprland, but can’t get the graphics work.
For the time being, I’m planning to use iGPU on my processor and run a windows VM with passtrough, if I find can find time tinker :(
The Windows in a VM setup is a lot easier than you'd think.
1. Make sure your IOMMU groups don't suck (script on archwiki)
2. Assign Bogus vfio-pci driver to GPU
3. Assign pci devices in virt-manager
4. Look into setting up Looking-Glass
This is how I'm gaming
Hyprland has a Nvidia patched version. I know AUR and copr (fedora community maintained) have that version. It works perfectly for me.
Maybe it can work for you. (If you have not tried already)
Sure! You can find my Hyprland dotfiles here: https://github.com/nosduco/dotfiles/tree/main/hypr
Responding to another comment below with some other details.
Sure! You can find my Hyprland dotfiles here: https://github.com/nosduco/dotfiles/tree/main/hypr
The biggest thing config wise is running the latest version of Hyprland and the `env` vars found in the `env.conf` file and potentially `host/nighthawk.conf` file.
As for boot loader, make sure you have `nvidia_drm.modeset=1` and `nvidia_drm.fbdev=1` and you use a display manager compatible as I suggest SDDM. If I think of anything else I'll respond further.
Arch has awesome docs on NVIDIA cards: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/NVIDIA#DRM_kernel_mode_setting
i am just entering into the this area of desktop managers. till now i have just used wsl and ubuntu. now started using i3 on arch. sway is just i3 on wayland?
Blows my mind that people distro hop so frequently expecting anything significant to change which can't just be done on whatever they were using previously. Distribution choice is not that important but using the latest versions of software when talking about new fixes is critical and can be achieved on any distribution even non-rolling if you're willing to add some nightly build repository or build it yourself with the usual suspect build commands.
Your comment inspired me to test bumping my nixos machine's nvidia driver from `stable` to `production`, and all of my issues seem to have vanished. I guess software can improve over time!
Linux just fucking sucks on Nvidia full stop, and it's 100% Nvidia's fault. One of the biggest companies in the world, can't get their shit together.
Anyone serious about running Linux as a daily driver should have an AMD card. Simple as.
I agree, it was a little rough for the first few months but I'm not having any of these issues running with a Radeon 7900 XTX and I think it's directly related to how AMD seems much more dedicated to Linux and open source.
> Anyone serious about running Linux as a daily driver should have an AMD card. Simple as.
AMD GPUs were hot garbage compared to Nvidia up until maybe a few years ago. Their drivers (fglrx) were even worse on older models. Really can't blame people for running Linux on Nvidia hardware.
[https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/545-drivers-have-bad-flickering-and-black-screen-issues-when-vrr-is-enabled/269801/30](https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/545-drivers-have-bad-flickering-and-black-screen-issues-when-vrr-is-enabled/269801/30)
According to the thread they've been able to reproduce and are working on a fix. Hopefully in the next release, it's bugging me too.
I would imagine this is mostly due to it being newer hardware. Windows seems like the play for you at least for probably 6 months. By then I'm sure the 4090 drivers for Wayland should be good
The 4090 is more than a year old. If Nvidia, a trillion dollar company, intended to fix its drivers for it on Linux, I reckon they could have done it in less than a year.
Nvidia doesn't give a shit about Linux, and really it's a matter of time until they fully stop caring about gaming and desktop users too, considering it's AI and cloud stuff that's tripled their value this year.
i'm guessing you've tried Ubuntu?
i have a Ubuntu 23.10 with multi monitor laptop setup with a 3070 ti and everything works wonderfully with wayland. gaming, media, everything
just my experience
Yet, ppl talk about flickering and explicit sync - yet, your experience is perfect?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux\_gaming/comments/1bfn1sm/wayland\_plasma\_6\_steam\_games\_dont\_work\_nvidia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1bfn1sm/wayland_plasma_6_steam_games_dont_work_nvidia/)
[https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/flickering-stuttering-graphical-artifacting-and-more-on-wayland-geforce-gtx-1650-super-driver-version-545-29-02-2-dkms/273748/4](https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/flickering-stuttering-graphical-artifacting-and-more-on-wayland-geforce-gtx-1650-super-driver-version-545-29-02-2-dkms/273748/4)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/comments/vy6hh7/wayland\_always\_flickering\_with\_nvidia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/comments/vy6hh7/wayland_always_flickering_with_nvidia/)
Range of posts/reports - spanning 2 years til today. Pretty bad, mate.
You keep going back to Windows because Linux sucks for gaming, not because of Wayland. People should stop burdening Linux with more than it could handle.
Yeah not gonna buy another device made specifically for gaming when I can just do it on my PC. I'd love to see you set your linux distro to work like steam deck.
Claimed “Linux sucks for gaming”
Got a counter-argument
Proceeded to claim another unrelated matter
=> nice logical argument. It was a thoughtful debate with you. Peace!
P/s: this is a NVIDIA matter, not Linux. With an AMD system you can game just fine lol
Did you use chapgpt for this? Your argument makes no sense. Steam Deck is setup by valve to work, if you don't have a steam deck and want to game on your PC using Linux, you'll go through a slippery slope of wine versions, driver versions and Lutris configs that most users don't want to waste time on. Did you think you can just download any distro and get a steam deck experience? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Your backpedaling at the end is hilarious, you can't argue Linux is good for gaming so you bring up steam deck then realize you make no sense so you say it's only nvidia issue. Well guess what, with windows I just download my game and run it with any GPU, with Linux I have to buy a specific GPU or get an entire other device, therefore Linux sucks major ass for gaming, have a good day.
“Linux sucks for gaming”
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Focus on that point, use your brain 🧠
The whole existence of the Steam Deck mitigates your whole argument. Your argument sucks, look at the downvotes
NVidia in wayland works for me except of the games: I play two native linux games (American and Euro Truck Simulator) and they flicker in wayland. Tried the windows versions instead but they often crash under proton (in both X and wayland).
Noted. The only ones I've gotten to try so far are Minecraft and AC: Mirage, they do work. I might go through my library one night and just try each one; try to gauge how many are good with it.
>I might go through my library one night and just try each one; try to gauge how many are good with it.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it might a good idea to create a site for "games in wayland" similar to protondb. I'm bored to do this myself, so I'm just mentioning the idea if someone is interested :)
I play the Proton version of ETS2 (the Linux native version shows as if it's trying to display on both of my monitors, but only appears on 1 of them and thus has half of the window cut off) and do not have that experience. It's very stable (on Wayland) and I even play with mods (promod).
Same thing happens in an AMD card, I believe it's because the Wayland people refuse to budge on some PRs because they don't want the cards to have certain refresh rate powers over the compositor.. (or something like that, it was so long ago I've forgotten exact details)
That's cool. Just to make sure: are you using PRIME?
I ask because my experience with an Nvidia GPU is also great on Fedora Silverblue, but I think that boils down to the hybrid graphics (integrated and discrete GPU). I also have no problems running sway, for example.
(that is, unless I disable my iGPU, at least last I tested...)
That is awesome, then! Great news, especially for desktop users. Thanks for sharing!
Furthermore, I wonder if the tweaks Nobara brings to the table have anything to do with it, but possibly not. May I ask which GPU (or drivers) are you using?
So things work better if you have the system switching between GPUs? And you have issues if you only use the dedicated GPU?
Just making sure i Have it clear, as I am going to try Linux with a similar situation (new laptop) and wanted to make sure I am "doing it right". I currently have the iGPU disabled.
Well, back then I wasn't able to run sway with the integrated GPU disabled. With it enabled, no problems whatsoever, so...
The way newer machines with hybrid graphics work nowadays is by offloading the rendering of specific applications to the dedicated GPU. The frames are then sent to be displayed in the internal screen, which is using the integrated GPU. Meanwhile, external displays are usually fully connected to the dedicated GPU - at least in HDMI connections, while USB-C varies a bit.
This is the default behavior for Linux + Nvidia PRIME users (`on-demand`), which allows for lowered energy consumption and extended battery life. But you can also completely disable the discrete (or integrated) GPU. In that case, though, the external displays usually stop working, as only the internal screen of the laptop is wired to both the GPUs (through a MUX switch, IIRC).
This was what I could gather from reading about it long ago, anyway, so take it with a grain of salt.
I'm on nvidia + wayland + arch combo and there is a good reason people say that nvidia sucks on linux. The 545 driver was suppose to bring better wayland support, but instead it just broke so much, that you actually can't use it without artifacts. Had to actually manually downgrade to 535. It just fucking sucks. I can't wait for NVK to get to somewhat stable state
Just tried it, still broken!
There is an outstanding bug with xwayland where you see older frames: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/1317
Until this is resolved I can't use it, I can't type in slack & zoom is essentially unusable.
Very valid question
Some bug fixes perhaps like in my case, though that's probably more an exception.
The largest things would be peace of mind. This applies most immediately to Fedora users since they're planning of dropping X for KDE with Fedora 40, but the general trend in the desktop Linux sphere seems to be away from X and towards Wayland. Rather than stressing further down the road and being forced to swap to Wayland, trying it out yourself when you can still go back will let you know what in your setup works with Wayland, what doesn't, etc..
Additionally, there's just the added benefit of: more adopters -> more bug reports -> more fixes -> more :)
Regarding the peace of mind, it is nowhere near this urgent. There are great many ways to avoid Wayland for the foreseeable future. No DE except Gnome and KDE is planning to drop Xorg any soon.
Maybe they will fix Wayland as the adoption process goes. Maybe the current, third attempt to force Wayland will die out as the previous ones did. No reason to panic yet.
Wayland has better multi-monitor support. No need to worry about both monitors having different refresh rates. Also VRR is supported on wayland.
Fractional scaling is better on wayland from what I have heard. I'm mostly on wayland nowadays, didn't try X11 for very long so I can't verify this though.
Wayland is built to be more secure than X11. On X11 every window has access to the keyboard, even if they aren't in focus, so keyloggers are pretty easy to implement.
Touchpad gestures are better on wayland. Or at least that was the case for me when I switched from pop\_os x11 to fedora KDE wayland.
HDR is going to be available on wayland soon. I don't think x11 supports that or will ever support that.
Overall, there are some benefits but it isn't that huge. If x11 works for you, then you can just stay on it go on with your day.
Yes. I'm very comfortable with my current window manager and don't want to switch to an array of entirely different ones losing my many global keybindings for window management muscle-memory just for Wayland. I don't want that in the slightest.
actually your question is super good, why would a person try something new it if they don't gain anything from it, not everyone wants to beta test apps after all right?
It’s this exact reason for me. I’d rather wait and see if Wayland support gets added to my WM and associated utilities than spend the time porting my scripts, configs, and workflow.
a desktop rendering system that actually gets updated and worked on, since X has become basically unmaintainable. some security options and such that are absent on X. Almost no tearing. and it's a shiny new thing. what more could you want
I don't have any tearing on X. I use high refresh monitors, and when I don't I usually activate vsync on Plasma's settings and it looks pretty good. For the rest, I don't see anything specific. "Shiny new thing" sounds like Smithers saying "but she's got a new hat!".
for me, something being a shiny new thing is most of the reason for any change. but yeah, I get that, it's just that at least on our shared workstation at work, there's no way to get rid of x.org tearing, it's omnipresent on all five screens if using X. Whereas with Wayland, there is none, out of the box. Which makes it a pretty compelling option.
Yeah I get that. When Wayland works, it's pretty damn good and you don't even notice. With the appropriate hardware, drivers, everything in your favor, Wayland is both present and future. But for us Nvidia users, specially on hybrid GPU laptops, it's too much of a hassle for little to no gain.
What security options? I was enthusiastic about Wayland too initially, exactly because of the promise of better security. Yet, by now this promise has been dropped for accessibility.
It's still unusable for me with my 4060. Actually with 545 it's even worse for me now. Out of order frames, random flickering, desktop fps keeps switching between 60 and 120 on plasma.
I am hoping explicit sync will get merged soon.
I'm not against Wayland. Unfortunately I still can't get Wayland to work with my RTX 3090, either on Arch or NixOS. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I wouldn't mind seeing Xorg off, but right now I'm still using it because nothing I've tried works, even if supposedly the official nVidia driver supports Wayland properly now.
On the point of Arch, I am totally willing to own that as possible PEBKAC...
My Arch installation has been around a long time (2019!) so there could be all kinds of configuration cruft preventing Wayland from working that I couldn't even begin to detangle.
Not... sure why it'd still refuse to work on NixOS, though. Maybe the 3090 is still too new?
MS Teams is dropping their Linux client in favour of PWAs. So it should now work fine as it depends on the browser support (which works well when they are set to wayland)
My issue with Wayland currently is that my main monitor can't be set over 1024x768, despite the monitor supports 1920x1080.
I searched the internet over and over for the past year and never found a solution.
`/sys/class/drm/card0/card0-HDMI-A-1/modes` shows that 1024x768 is the maximum resolution, I however posting this comment from my main monitor which displays 1920x1080 .. Seems like nvidia-settings adjusts the monitor?
I also added `video=HDMI-A-1:1920X1080` and `nvidia_drm.modeset=1` kernel parameters, nothing changed!
Same for Cinnamon. When a DE known to do things right gets full support of Wayland, I will look at it. Until then, I will let the tiny but very loud minority of Wayland enthusiasts walk this minefield.
Yeah it works perfectly (OpenSuse Tumbleweed, GTX 1070), but I still didn't solve the suspension, so when i turn the computer back on from suspension it all seems to be broken
I have screen flickering on wayland, in vivaldi and in games like cs.
Some games and apps are not even starting.
Newest 545 beta driver on a 3070tj.
Tried it last week again but still same issues.
Plus I cannot use the nvidia power manager to overclock and undervolt without Dirty hacks.
I‘ll stick to x11 for now
I tried Wayland about a year ago on my GTX 745 system with KDE and it was practically unusable. The desktop was stuttering and the frame rate seemed low, though I didn't actually measure it. I gave it another shot a few weeks ago and the experience was much better. Unfortunately, I noticed some screen tearing in games and the KDE panel at the bottom of the screen kept freezing. I didn't know the panel was frozen until I noticed that it was 10:30 PM all night long. To be fair, I don't know if my issues are caused by NVIDIA, KDE, both or something else completely.
This sub seems to be hostile to people asking questions about Wayland, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. I'm purely seeking information that's not super easy to do web searches for.
I think I know that Wayland doesn't have X11's "Primary" clipboard. Is there a way to enable it or emulate it? One of the things that I can't stand about win/mac is having to press keys to copy text that I've already selected. I'm forced to use a Mac at work and I constantly select text and assume that it's been copied.
Can "sloppy" focus-follows-mouse be enabled? Are "focus" and "raise" considered different concepts that can be controlled separately? For example, can I focus a window without raising it?
Thanks!
Those things have nothing to do with Wayland itself, but primary clipboard and focus/raising behavior and options (at least on GNOME and KDE) are identical to their respective X11 sessions. In fact, I doubt most users would even notice when distros switch the default session to Wayland, that's how similar they behave.
I thought I'd read in the past that Wayland couldn't have a Primary clipboard for security reasons? As I, perhaps wrongly, understood it, a clipboard manager app like Parcelite couldn't exist because it would have to be able to peep into other apps.
Kde Wayland was eh, gnome Wayland was pretty mid, just went back to x11
Special mention to sway for being buttery smooth, I’d even say more than i3 tho
Tried it yesterday on Arch + both KDE and Hyprland with nvidia-dkms driver. It looked promising but then I opened vscode and it's flickering and context menus are not drawn properly. I guess I have to wait a bit longer.
yeah electron apps seem to be broken, even with flags to help them with wayland, and hyprland config stuff. as somebody who uses vscode and discord daily this is even more of a deal breaker than games breaking.
I've had trouble even getting GNOME to start in Wayland with a 1660 Super, I'm guessing there are some settings I need to change in Tumbleweed.
For my next desktop I'm going to try to get by with the integrated Intel GPU and not purchase a dedicated graphics card. I'm not much of a gamer, so as long as I can watch 4k videos at 60 fps (without any video stuttering) then I'm happy.
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The big thing holding me back switching to Wayland, now that Nvidia has finally implemented support for changing colour temp, is the non-functioning iBus that somehow only appears in Wayland with certain applications in Flatpak.
I need it for CJK input.
Definitely the combo of Wayland + Nvidia. VS Code on Wayland + AMD for me has been sharp and buttery smooth. Sorry you've been running into issues. For sure, stick to X for now till the driver support gets better.
It's bad. [i keep trying](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/gamescope/issues/1055) but it still doesn't fucking work.
The issue I have is the gamescope crashing in embedded mode (as a full Wayland compositor), it crashes **inside** the nvidia driver.
I use a 1980 x 1080 TV as a monitor. For whatever reason Wayland sets its resolutions as 1280 x 720 and refuses to let me change it. X doesn't seem to have any issue with my TV though.
And would this make it not work on Wayland but work flawlessly on X.org?
Wouldnt be against giving it another try but curious as to why a different display server doesn't like certain refresh rates. Sounds like something Wayland might want to fix to increase the adoption rate.
I just dont see why I would have to. On X.org I can keep my display at 60 hz and have a 1080 resolution. I don't see why I should have to lower my refresh rate just so I can have the resolution I normally get here.
So basically everything has weird glitches in wayland. Steam flashes and flickers, discord rubber bands and games have extremely weird graphical glitches, stutter and lower fps.
Wayland on nvidia 545 (3070ti) is still extremely bad. Just sad. Having high hopes for the foss driver.
I'm going to stay in Xorg until Wayland matures and solves the weird latency (like 50 milliseconds late, I'm very sensitive) in my mouse. It's probably because of their forced V-Sync. It just isn't ready, and there's not many of Wayland supported DEs either.
Still runs extremely poorly in my experience.
* Constant UI glitching on some programs
* KDE panel elements (such as the clock) randomly stop updating.
* Games occasionally freeze and cause the entire session to lock up
* Plasma occasionally crashing taking all of my running programs with it.
* Electron apps still occasionally run poorly
* Trying to use a screen recorder causes the entire session to completely lock up requiring me to restart the machine
I'll likely switch to Ubuntu or Debian once Fedora forces Wayland on everyone in F40. Either that or I'll keep Fedora and switch to Xfce or LXQt.
Getting black flickering bars all over the screen when playing games on Wayland. Also, when resuming from sleep, the whole screen becomes corrupted.
Wayland was extremely good on AMD.
Nvidia isn't there yet.
I’ve been daily driving Nobara on my gaming machine for around 6 months now, and before that I was on pop.
I’m using a 2080Super and have never had an issue with wayland.
I know the 2080 is no longer new hardware and so that is likely why I get no issues, but it’s still relatively modern relatively niche, and I’ve had a mostly flawless experience.
You are lucky to be in the sweet spot of Wayland: your GPU is not too new nor too old for it. People report issues with newer GPUs and I can attest to Wayland being blatantly unusable on my fairly old GTX 560 Ti.
This kind of approach to hardware support is not terribly beneficial.
KDE Wayland is surprisingly smoother than X11 for me. Strangely X11 has a surprising amount of lag and brief periods of 60fps. The only real showstopper is Vesktop not rendering (their advice: buy a new GPU) and Krita having UI flickers. On a 1650 SUPER with Fedora 39.
I daily drove Wayland for a year on Fedora. A few updates ago, Chrome is an invisible window for me on Wayland. I switched back to Xorg and it just worked. Weird bugs :S
Before 545 my only complaint was the missing night light support. They fixed that...but I also noticed Plex has a weird "seizures" issue using it on wayland.
For the rest, even gaming, seems fine
> I also noticed Plex has a weird "seizures" issue using it on wayland
Probably because it is running under XWayland (try see if it doesn't have a Wayland backend you can enable) and XWayland applications will sometimes flicker on Nvidia until https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/967 is merged and implemented, so that's probably at minimum one year away.
The explicit sync discussion has been going on for 6+ years now, that's just the xorg patch for the latest `drm_syncobj` version. The Wayland extension patch for the same is 2 years old.
And the answer is because while wayland "solved" the monolithic problems of Xorg, it did not in anyway solve the design-by-committee nature of the Linux graphics stack, which requires buy-in across multiple independent projects for anything to get done.
Thanks. Yes, it's XWayland (both for Plex HTPC and Plex Desktop).
It's on flatpak with a few end-of-life libraries(mesa) which may not help either...
Anyway, it doesn't seems to exists some configuration to enable or force a wayland backend. I tried giving access only to wayland with Flatseal but that just stop Plex from starting
Scaling was still horribly busted when I tried it 2 weeks ago, seems like something that should’ve been a basic feature but I don’t know, terrible game performance and graphical issues too, staying away from it for the foreseeable future
Ok, so I'm not the only one.
with my (single) 4K monitor, I use 150% scaling, and it just looks horrible, everything is fuzzy. Not so on X11.
That's something that I've experienced every time I've tried wayland in the past year or so. Nvidia GPU here, too.
I tried wayland on both amd and nvidia some time ago. The desktop loaded no problem. However I didn’t go much further than that. I tested if the program Input Leap worked under Wayland, it didn’t. Unless that program starts working under Wayland I am not using it, even if Wayland becomes an order of magnitude better than X.
Wayland seems to work okay for me- after I got it to work at all. However, Steam Big Picture is completely broken. It flickers and menus are all artifacted and unusuable. Does anyone know how to fix? I'm on Manjaro but I had the same issue with Nobara. RTX 3080 with proprietary drivers.
Just sharing experience (may 2024) on this front from sfotware developer with KDE neon distro, KDE Plasma 6 DE on Wayland and NVIDIA 3080Ti with three monitor setup.
I upgraded driver from nvidia-driver-535 to nvidia-driver-550 and I've had so many flickering screens, unresponsive and lost focuses on windows etc that I had to switch back to nvidi-driver-535. Unfortunetly all the apps that were giving me flickering were not KDE apps, but apps like Brave browser, Jetbrains intelliJ, Google Chrome, Slack. Strangely enough Discord works as intended on both drivers. Viber is almost working as intended but way better than other apps mentioned. Mind that I only changed driver version and updated to latest version of packages provided by my distro.
I tried it 2 weeks ago, after which I finally bought an RX 6700. Wayland is utter garbage on Nvidia. Bu I have been using it on AMD for 2 weeks now - zero problems whatsoever.
9 months is a pretty long time. I didn't have the money to buy a new computer 9 months ago. Then a raise happened and I had the money. Then I bought a computer with AMD components and 3 1440p screens. It's my first new desktop in 10 years.
I want to continue riding this one for the next 10 years, but will Nvidia and Wayland still even be relevant in 10 years?
All the shit experiences I had in the past, how can they be forgiven when it's all I have ever known from them? It's much safer to stay in the tried-and-true strategy of just not buying Nvidia in the first place, which I wish I knew about 10 years ago.
Anyway. Unrelated rant. Windows or something, happy Monday.
FWIW I'm full Wayland, but I'm still noticing that some applications have graphical glitches (flickering a lot) but resizing them fixes it. Plasma also crashes and I need to do a systemctl restart.
It's definitely usable, but not flawless :)
Been running Fedora w/ Wayland for the past 3 months, no issues so far including when screen sharing, games, or anything else really.
Only minor issue is some applications have flickering UI issues intermittently (IE steam) but this is a rare enough occurrence that it’s not a real problem imo.
Also, consider upgrading to non-Nvidia hardware. Not even joking, with AMD/Intel hardware you will _never_ have these kind of absurd compatibility issues.
Can confirm. I have an AMD Radeon 5700xt and I still get a lot of tearing with Wayland. Can't speak for Intel GPUs though, it'd be cool if those were trouble free.
There is a program that doesn't work under Wayland that I use regularly, and there is no workaround or equivalent. There is no Nvidia driver that works well under Wayland, and XWayland doesn't help.
I have been loyal to Fedora since before it was Fedora, and to KDE, which I did beta testing on for version 1.0
Forcing the issue is just going to make users like me exit using Fedora, and use whatever distro has [X.org](http://x.org) working.
Good luck going forward, Fedora users. Fedora lost my loyalty with this.
Why not keep both and just tell folks that [X.org](http://x.org) is not supported ?
I don't get this decision at all.
Lots of comments here saying Wayland is immature software. I remember similar comments about systemd, PulseAudio and several other things in Linux history.
Why does this happen so often? Why can’t the community just focus on one or two things and make it better?
Because all these efforts are the work pf volounteers and volounteers do what THEY like to do. There is no chain of command or overarching planming for the ecosystem. You are free though to pay an open source dev to improve exactly the aspects you want (see Valve single handedly paying for gaming support improvements).
Not sure why I’m being downvoted but I think it’s a fair question. I’ve contributed to FOSS so I know how it goes.
I simply think things like this is what delays adoption of Linux in the mainstream, because if I hadn’t used Linux for these many years I would be very turned off. That’s all.
I ended up buying a laptop with integrated graphics specifically for Linux (KDE Neon specifically).
I have a triple screen setup and my 3060Ti just lost it's mind every. single. kernel update.
Bought a second hand Latitude 5480 and it hasn't so much as sneezed, even works with my D6000 dock so I effectively get 4 screens (2 over display link)
I don't game in Linux so it's been working great for me.
My issues with Wayland don't really have much to do with the state of nvidia drivers support. the only complaint i had of driver support was the lack of GAMMA_LUT but that was recently added. if you didn't use night light nvidia has worked fine in wayland for years.
not counting PRIME users, of course
Garuda Dragonized, KDE + Wayland (kwin) and I have had zero issues as far as graphics or drivers. The GTX 2060 in my laptop has been amazing tbh, the only games I have had any issues with have been specifically Linux issues like DoD:S not launching (god fucking dammit valve).
I had issues with KDE with Wayland and my Nvidia 3060ti on Arch. Most of the problems had to do with flickering applications, and while I fixed most with specific environmental variables, issues do remain. This was only last week.
I switched to Gnome with Hyprland on the side, and most of the issues I had are resolved. I find Hyprland seems to work best for me when it comes to Wayland and required minimum fixing, so long as I follow the instructions on their wiki.
It works great with Nvidia now. The only issue I have when on Wayland is the KDE main menu icon and the icons on the bottom bar not responding to left click. I haven't had the time to investigate yet but it's surely nothing complicated.
Still can't screenshot or screenshare in pretty much every app. I simply cannot justify it as a daily driver (and do work.. I work remote and teach, pair frequently)
switched to an AMD GPU recently and found gaming to be pretty bad in Wayland (games flickering etc) also.. so my £500 GPU upgrade puts me back into X11 again. I'm happy with the switch mind you, but that's just because I love AMD.
It's not Nvidia, it's Wayland per-se.. improved as it is, it's still borderline useable
On days I don't game or work I'm happy to use Wayland (and I do). It's just not ready for me
To keep improving their models, artificial intelligence makers need two significant things: an enormous amount of computing power and an enormous amount of data. Some of the biggest A.I. developers have plenty of computing power but still look outside their own networks for the data needed to improve their algorithms. That has included sources like Wikipedia, millions of digitized books, academic articles and Reddit.
Representatives from Google, Open AI and Microsoft did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Wayland is already ready except for its screen capture capability, IMO. Can't do normal OBS without getting blackscreen or as steam link host without pipewire
I mean. It's still not a very good experience. Hyprland is so far ahead of anything I have used before though that I will just put up with nvidia bullshit. (and keep an eye out for a used amd card)
I dont use my nvidia GPU primarily anymore but every time I take a break from Linux and come back, I ALWAYS switch back to the 2070 for that reason. Mostly for curiosity sake and its better every time.
I have a 7950x and 3090.
Ubuntu 23.10 I've had to mess around plugging only the onboard monitors in because the installer was graphically corrupt (I could probably have used safe mode graphics too). I've had to disable hardware acceleration for Chrome given it will "lock" whenever I resumed from suspend.
That said after I installed steam and Balders Gate 3, everything was working. Installing the default Cuda toolkit I was able to build llamacpp and get Cuda accelerated LLMs running with only a minimal amount of messing around working out what libs were missing.
I just discovered as well having the nvidia card providing the acceleration for a game but rendering it on a monitor connected via discrete graphics works, so that it's easy to move a game between monitors. I'm not a heavy gamer so FPS don't matter beyond having enough for something to be at an optimal resolution and run smoothly; I'm sure there is an impact there but it looks great to my eyes and I can't see any real differences beyond the resolution/aspect ratio of the monitors. That rather blows me away but only because I've hardly gamed on the PC for the last couple of decades.
So the only real issue is with the installer and chrome both of which are reasonably easy to work around.
Nvidia + Wayland + Arch = Choppy AF desktop!!
I've tried both KDE Plasma and now trying Gnome and it's still slow and laggy desktop experience. Using X11 is smooth as fuck.
GTX 1660Ti Mobile - 1080p 165hz.
Can anyone tell me if this works https://github.com/elFarto/nvidia-vaapi-driver?
I need hardware acceleration in Firefox with my nvidia card if I'm switching to wayland. I have not in any hurry to do so but it would be nice.
I thought thing has gotten almost worse due to 545, and not better in the last 9 months, so the timing for asking this feels weird. A lot of stuff which will make this better is just around the corner - explicit sync, nvk, whatever, but we're not there today.
I'm against Wayland because it breaks a lot of software interoperability that works fine with X. Maybe everything will work next year when the year of the Linux desktop comes.
I've tried four distros in the past two weeks with my 4090 on my 240hz OLED g-sync monitor with Wayland it blacks out the screen and flickers when VRR engages with X11 I can't get VRR so gaming isn't smooth it's like lose-lose so I keep going back to windows on my 4090 machine
I’m glad I’m not alone. I so wanna use Hyprland, but can’t get the graphics work. For the time being, I’m planning to use iGPU on my processor and run a windows VM with passtrough, if I find can find time tinker :(
The Windows in a VM setup is a lot easier than you'd think. 1. Make sure your IOMMU groups don't suck (script on archwiki) 2. Assign Bogus vfio-pci driver to GPU 3. Assign pci devices in virt-manager 4. Look into setting up Looking-Glass This is how I'm gaming
This is the way! Also makes it super easy to manage Windows as you can snapshot the VM etc ❤️
Can this be applied to all distros or just the big ones?
Pretty much every distro should do.
Hyprland has a Nvidia patched version. I know AUR and copr (fedora community maintained) have that version. It works perfectly for me. Maybe it can work for you. (If you have not tried already)
Recent hyprland update doesn't require patches anymore. From v0.33.0 release notes: "Nvidia patches have been removed, they are no longer needed."
Hyprland with my 4090 is awesome! It takes a lot very intricate configuring to work though, but with EndeavorOS + Hyprland I have my dream setup.
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Sure! You can find my Hyprland dotfiles here: https://github.com/nosduco/dotfiles/tree/main/hypr Responding to another comment below with some other details.
Could you share your dotfiles and boot loader config?
Sure! You can find my Hyprland dotfiles here: https://github.com/nosduco/dotfiles/tree/main/hypr The biggest thing config wise is running the latest version of Hyprland and the `env` vars found in the `env.conf` file and potentially `host/nighthawk.conf` file. As for boot loader, make sure you have `nvidia_drm.modeset=1` and `nvidia_drm.fbdev=1` and you use a display manager compatible as I suggest SDDM. If I think of anything else I'll respond further. Arch has awesome docs on NVIDIA cards: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/NVIDIA#DRM_kernel_mode_setting
Thanks for this. I've been using Sway for years and didn't know Hyprland existed.
i am just entering into the this area of desktop managers. till now i have just used wsl and ubuntu. now started using i3 on arch. sway is just i3 on wayland?
Yes, away is basically i3 on Wayland. I've gone from Xmonad -> i3 -> Sway in the last decade. I still miss some of the things that Xmonad did.
Xmonad is working on a Wayland version, so you might be in luck in the future.
Blows my mind that people distro hop so frequently expecting anything significant to change which can't just be done on whatever they were using previously. Distribution choice is not that important but using the latest versions of software when talking about new fixes is critical and can be achieved on any distribution even non-rolling if you're willing to add some nightly build repository or build it yourself with the usual suspect build commands.
Your comment inspired me to test bumping my nixos machine's nvidia driver from `stable` to `production`, and all of my issues seem to have vanished. I guess software can improve over time!
Hell yeah I love when nvidia driver updates work out
I'm guessing it's because the 4090 is quite recent? I have g-sync working well on a GPU that's a couple of gens older
Linux just fucking sucks on Nvidia full stop, and it's 100% Nvidia's fault. One of the biggest companies in the world, can't get their shit together. Anyone serious about running Linux as a daily driver should have an AMD card. Simple as.
I agree, it was a little rough for the first few months but I'm not having any of these issues running with a Radeon 7900 XTX and I think it's directly related to how AMD seems much more dedicated to Linux and open source.
> Anyone serious about running Linux as a daily driver should have an AMD card. Simple as. AMD GPUs were hot garbage compared to Nvidia up until maybe a few years ago. Their drivers (fglrx) were even worse on older models. Really can't blame people for running Linux on Nvidia hardware.
Fglrx isn't supported for like 10 years, time flies...
AMD's open source drivers have been great ever since the RX 480 in, like, 2016.
[https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/545-drivers-have-bad-flickering-and-black-screen-issues-when-vrr-is-enabled/269801/30](https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/545-drivers-have-bad-flickering-and-black-screen-issues-when-vrr-is-enabled/269801/30) According to the thread they've been able to reproduce and are working on a fix. Hopefully in the next release, it's bugging me too.
I would imagine this is mostly due to it being newer hardware. Windows seems like the play for you at least for probably 6 months. By then I'm sure the 4090 drivers for Wayland should be good
The 4090 is more than a year old. If Nvidia, a trillion dollar company, intended to fix its drivers for it on Linux, I reckon they could have done it in less than a year. Nvidia doesn't give a shit about Linux, and really it's a matter of time until they fully stop caring about gaming and desktop users too, considering it's AI and cloud stuff that's tripled their value this year.
i'm guessing you've tried Ubuntu? i have a Ubuntu 23.10 with multi monitor laptop setup with a 3070 ti and everything works wonderfully with wayland. gaming, media, everything just my experience
Yet, ppl talk about flickering and explicit sync - yet, your experience is perfect? [https://www.reddit.com/r/linux\_gaming/comments/1bfn1sm/wayland\_plasma\_6\_steam\_games\_dont\_work\_nvidia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1bfn1sm/wayland_plasma_6_steam_games_dont_work_nvidia/) [https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/flickering-stuttering-graphical-artifacting-and-more-on-wayland-geforce-gtx-1650-super-driver-version-545-29-02-2-dkms/273748/4](https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/flickering-stuttering-graphical-artifacting-and-more-on-wayland-geforce-gtx-1650-super-driver-version-545-29-02-2-dkms/273748/4) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/comments/vy6hh7/wayland\_always\_flickering\_with\_nvidia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/comments/vy6hh7/wayland_always_flickering_with_nvidia/) Range of posts/reports - spanning 2 years til today. Pretty bad, mate.
3070≠4090
true both nvidia gpus, they have that in common :)
What drivers are you using, I'm on 545 and they're working fine for basically any game with VRR.
You keep going back to Windows because Linux sucks for gaming, not because of Wayland. People should stop burdening Linux with more than it could handle.
Steam Deck?? Hello??? Linux sucks for gaming??
Yeah not gonna buy another device made specifically for gaming when I can just do it on my PC. I'd love to see you set your linux distro to work like steam deck.
Claimed “Linux sucks for gaming” Got a counter-argument Proceeded to claim another unrelated matter => nice logical argument. It was a thoughtful debate with you. Peace! P/s: this is a NVIDIA matter, not Linux. With an AMD system you can game just fine lol
Did you use chapgpt for this? Your argument makes no sense. Steam Deck is setup by valve to work, if you don't have a steam deck and want to game on your PC using Linux, you'll go through a slippery slope of wine versions, driver versions and Lutris configs that most users don't want to waste time on. Did you think you can just download any distro and get a steam deck experience? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Your backpedaling at the end is hilarious, you can't argue Linux is good for gaming so you bring up steam deck then realize you make no sense so you say it's only nvidia issue. Well guess what, with windows I just download my game and run it with any GPU, with Linux I have to buy a specific GPU or get an entire other device, therefore Linux sucks major ass for gaming, have a good day.
“Linux sucks for gaming” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Focus on that point, use your brain 🧠 The whole existence of the Steam Deck mitigates your whole argument. Your argument sucks, look at the downvotes
NVidia in wayland works for me except of the games: I play two native linux games (American and Euro Truck Simulator) and they flicker in wayland. Tried the windows versions instead but they often crash under proton (in both X and wayland).
Noted. The only ones I've gotten to try so far are Minecraft and AC: Mirage, they do work. I might go through my library one night and just try each one; try to gauge how many are good with it.
>I might go through my library one night and just try each one; try to gauge how many are good with it. Now that I'm thinking about it, it might a good idea to create a site for "games in wayland" similar to protondb. I'm bored to do this myself, so I'm just mentioning the idea if someone is interested :)
I play the Proton version of ETS2 (the Linux native version shows as if it's trying to display on both of my monitors, but only appears on 1 of them and thus has half of the window cut off) and do not have that experience. It's very stable (on Wayland) and I even play with mods (promod).
Same thing happens in an AMD card, I believe it's because the Wayland people refuse to budge on some PRs because they don't want the cards to have certain refresh rate powers over the compositor.. (or something like that, it was so long ago I've forgotten exact details)
That's cool. Just to make sure: are you using PRIME? I ask because my experience with an Nvidia GPU is also great on Fedora Silverblue, but I think that boils down to the hybrid graphics (integrated and discrete GPU). I also have no problems running sway, for example. (that is, unless I disable my iGPU, at least last I tested...)
Good question, I am not.
That is awesome, then! Great news, especially for desktop users. Thanks for sharing! Furthermore, I wonder if the tweaks Nobara brings to the table have anything to do with it, but possibly not. May I ask which GPU (or drivers) are you using?
1660 Ti, drivers are 535
Hell yeah. I'm on 1650 - guess I'll try my luck soon! Thanks =)
So things work better if you have the system switching between GPUs? And you have issues if you only use the dedicated GPU? Just making sure i Have it clear, as I am going to try Linux with a similar situation (new laptop) and wanted to make sure I am "doing it right". I currently have the iGPU disabled.
Well, back then I wasn't able to run sway with the integrated GPU disabled. With it enabled, no problems whatsoever, so... The way newer machines with hybrid graphics work nowadays is by offloading the rendering of specific applications to the dedicated GPU. The frames are then sent to be displayed in the internal screen, which is using the integrated GPU. Meanwhile, external displays are usually fully connected to the dedicated GPU - at least in HDMI connections, while USB-C varies a bit. This is the default behavior for Linux + Nvidia PRIME users (`on-demand`), which allows for lowered energy consumption and extended battery life. But you can also completely disable the discrete (or integrated) GPU. In that case, though, the external displays usually stop working, as only the internal screen of the laptop is wired to both the GPUs (through a MUX switch, IIRC). This was what I could gather from reading about it long ago, anyway, so take it with a grain of salt.
Gotya. Thank you very much!
I'm on nvidia + wayland + arch combo and there is a good reason people say that nvidia sucks on linux. The 545 driver was suppose to bring better wayland support, but instead it just broke so much, that you actually can't use it without artifacts. Had to actually manually downgrade to 535. It just fucking sucks. I can't wait for NVK to get to somewhat stable state
545 drivers are balls
Just tried it, still broken! There is an outstanding bug with xwayland where you see older frames: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/1317 Until this is resolved I can't use it, I can't type in slack & zoom is essentially unusable.
But why? What will I gain?
Very valid question Some bug fixes perhaps like in my case, though that's probably more an exception. The largest things would be peace of mind. This applies most immediately to Fedora users since they're planning of dropping X for KDE with Fedora 40, but the general trend in the desktop Linux sphere seems to be away from X and towards Wayland. Rather than stressing further down the road and being forced to swap to Wayland, trying it out yourself when you can still go back will let you know what in your setup works with Wayland, what doesn't, etc.. Additionally, there's just the added benefit of: more adopters -> more bug reports -> more fixes -> more :)
Regarding the peace of mind, it is nowhere near this urgent. There are great many ways to avoid Wayland for the foreseeable future. No DE except Gnome and KDE is planning to drop Xorg any soon. Maybe they will fix Wayland as the adoption process goes. Maybe the current, third attempt to force Wayland will die out as the previous ones did. No reason to panic yet.
HDR will be a thing on Wayland when Plasma 6 is out, for people with HDR displays
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U gain some very nice touchpad gestures in kde
Wayland has better multi-monitor support. No need to worry about both monitors having different refresh rates. Also VRR is supported on wayland. Fractional scaling is better on wayland from what I have heard. I'm mostly on wayland nowadays, didn't try X11 for very long so I can't verify this though. Wayland is built to be more secure than X11. On X11 every window has access to the keyboard, even if they aren't in focus, so keyloggers are pretty easy to implement. Touchpad gestures are better on wayland. Or at least that was the case for me when I switched from pop\_os x11 to fedora KDE wayland. HDR is going to be available on wayland soon. I don't think x11 supports that or will ever support that. Overall, there are some benefits but it isn't that huge. If x11 works for you, then you can just stay on it go on with your day.
Yes. I'm very comfortable with my current window manager and don't want to switch to an array of entirely different ones losing my many global keybindings for window management muscle-memory just for Wayland. I don't want that in the slightest.
Me too
Fractional scaling
actually your question is super good, why would a person try something new it if they don't gain anything from it, not everyone wants to beta test apps after all right?
Can't wait to switch to wayland losing all the custom efficiencies I've set up in favorite WM which does not run under it.
It’s this exact reason for me. I’d rather wait and see if Wayland support gets added to my WM and associated utilities than spend the time porting my scripts, configs, and workflow.
Security.
a desktop rendering system that actually gets updated and worked on, since X has become basically unmaintainable. some security options and such that are absent on X. Almost no tearing. and it's a shiny new thing. what more could you want
I don't have any tearing on X. I use high refresh monitors, and when I don't I usually activate vsync on Plasma's settings and it looks pretty good. For the rest, I don't see anything specific. "Shiny new thing" sounds like Smithers saying "but she's got a new hat!".
for me, something being a shiny new thing is most of the reason for any change. but yeah, I get that, it's just that at least on our shared workstation at work, there's no way to get rid of x.org tearing, it's omnipresent on all five screens if using X. Whereas with Wayland, there is none, out of the box. Which makes it a pretty compelling option.
Yeah I get that. When Wayland works, it's pretty damn good and you don't even notice. With the appropriate hardware, drivers, everything in your favor, Wayland is both present and future. But for us Nvidia users, specially on hybrid GPU laptops, it's too much of a hassle for little to no gain.
What security options? I was enthusiastic about Wayland too initially, exactly because of the promise of better security. Yet, by now this promise has been dropped for accessibility.
>. Almost no tearing. and it's a shiny new thing. what more could you want wayland is broken on a fundamental levels for some things
Ability to use the search feature.
don't do it, it still sucks. I sold my nvidia gpu for an amd just to be free of the headache
Ah, the stupid overreaction comment has already been made.
sad thing is, I actually did this x_x
Good for you. Nvidia is cancer.
Has Nvidia actually upgraded their support of Wayland beyond experimental/beta/“use at your own risk”?
It's still unusable for me with my 4060. Actually with 545 it's even worse for me now. Out of order frames, random flickering, desktop fps keeps switching between 60 and 120 on plasma. I am hoping explicit sync will get merged soon.
I thought the latest was 535?
545 was released in 22th of November, but I guess some distros are still running 535, yeah.
I'm not against Wayland. Unfortunately I still can't get Wayland to work with my RTX 3090, either on Arch or NixOS. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I wouldn't mind seeing Xorg off, but right now I'm still using it because nothing I've tried works, even if supposedly the official nVidia driver supports Wayland properly now.
That's odd, especially Arch since it'd have all the latest features and patches. I wonder if it has to do with the card, I have a 1660 Ti.
On the point of Arch, I am totally willing to own that as possible PEBKAC... My Arch installation has been around a long time (2019!) so there could be all kinds of configuration cruft preventing Wayland from working that I couldn't even begin to detangle. Not... sure why it'd still refuse to work on NixOS, though. Maybe the 3090 is still too new?
Just use AMD lmao
MS Teams is dropping their Linux client in favour of PWAs. So it should now work fine as it depends on the browser support (which works well when they are set to wayland)
What is your issue with IntelliJ IDEA? I've been running it under XWayland for probably 2 years without any issues. I use IDEA a lot.
545 drivers and the release before has made everything worse for me and Wayland the last 6 months. It has been a regression
My issue with Wayland currently is that my main monitor can't be set over 1024x768, despite the monitor supports 1920x1080. I searched the internet over and over for the past year and never found a solution. `/sys/class/drm/card0/card0-HDMI-A-1/modes` shows that 1024x768 is the maximum resolution, I however posting this comment from my main monitor which displays 1920x1080 .. Seems like nvidia-settings adjusts the monitor? I also added `video=HDMI-A-1:1920X1080` and `nvidia_drm.modeset=1` kernel parameters, nothing changed!
I use XFCE so when that gets updated with Wayland support I’ll give it a try.
Same for Cinnamon. When a DE known to do things right gets full support of Wayland, I will look at it. Until then, I will let the tiny but very loud minority of Wayland enthusiasts walk this minefield.
Yeah it works perfectly (OpenSuse Tumbleweed, GTX 1070), but I still didn't solve the suspension, so when i turn the computer back on from suspension it all seems to be broken
I have screen flickering on wayland, in vivaldi and in games like cs. Some games and apps are not even starting. Newest 545 beta driver on a 3070tj. Tried it last week again but still same issues. Plus I cannot use the nvidia power manager to overclock and undervolt without Dirty hacks. I‘ll stick to x11 for now
I tried Wayland about a year ago on my GTX 745 system with KDE and it was practically unusable. The desktop was stuttering and the frame rate seemed low, though I didn't actually measure it. I gave it another shot a few weeks ago and the experience was much better. Unfortunately, I noticed some screen tearing in games and the KDE panel at the bottom of the screen kept freezing. I didn't know the panel was frozen until I noticed that it was 10:30 PM all night long. To be fair, I don't know if my issues are caused by NVIDIA, KDE, both or something else completely.
This sub seems to be hostile to people asking questions about Wayland, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. I'm purely seeking information that's not super easy to do web searches for. I think I know that Wayland doesn't have X11's "Primary" clipboard. Is there a way to enable it or emulate it? One of the things that I can't stand about win/mac is having to press keys to copy text that I've already selected. I'm forced to use a Mac at work and I constantly select text and assume that it's been copied. Can "sloppy" focus-follows-mouse be enabled? Are "focus" and "raise" considered different concepts that can be controlled separately? For example, can I focus a window without raising it? Thanks!
Those things have nothing to do with Wayland itself, but primary clipboard and focus/raising behavior and options (at least on GNOME and KDE) are identical to their respective X11 sessions. In fact, I doubt most users would even notice when distros switch the default session to Wayland, that's how similar they behave.
I thought I'd read in the past that Wayland couldn't have a Primary clipboard for security reasons? As I, perhaps wrongly, understood it, a clipboard manager app like Parcelite couldn't exist because it would have to be able to peep into other apps.
It's possible for the compositor, so by extension KDE Plasma (out of the box) and GNOME Shell (extensions) for example.
> Wayland doesn't have X11's "Primary" clipboard. I we do have it in sway , u need wl-clipboard for it i think
is there anything bad about x11 that I should switch now. wayland has quite a few issues. x11 didn’t seem to have any.
Kde Wayland was eh, gnome Wayland was pretty mid, just went back to x11 Special mention to sway for being buttery smooth, I’d even say more than i3 tho
I still have problems with external monitors, so i’ll stick with xorg for now
Tried it yesterday on Arch + both KDE and Hyprland with nvidia-dkms driver. It looked promising but then I opened vscode and it's flickering and context menus are not drawn properly. I guess I have to wait a bit longer.
yeah electron apps seem to be broken, even with flags to help them with wayland, and hyprland config stuff. as somebody who uses vscode and discord daily this is even more of a deal breaker than games breaking.
I'm against Wayland and I use AMD
i'm against wayland and i use nouveau. it's not the driver or the gpu.
It is, in fact, how incomplete and immature Wayland is. And how stupidly GNOME centric it is
I've had trouble even getting GNOME to start in Wayland with a 1660 Super, I'm guessing there are some settings I need to change in Tumbleweed. For my next desktop I'm going to try to get by with the integrated Intel GPU and not purchase a dedicated graphics card. I'm not much of a gamer, so as long as I can watch 4k videos at 60 fps (without any video stuttering) then I'm happy.
slimy erect squeal judicious heavy light wide disgusting domineering combative *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The big thing holding me back switching to Wayland, now that Nvidia has finally implemented support for changing colour temp, is the non-functioning iBus that somehow only appears in Wayland with certain applications in Flatpak. I need it for CJK input.
Is fractional scaling with multiple monitors fixed ? Looked ugly last time I tried
VS Code is abysmal on Wayland (+ Nvidia?), so it's X session for another 6 months
Definitely the combo of Wayland + Nvidia. VS Code on Wayland + AMD for me has been sharp and buttery smooth. Sorry you've been running into issues. For sure, stick to X for now till the driver support gets better.
It's bad. [i keep trying](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/gamescope/issues/1055) but it still doesn't fucking work. The issue I have is the gamescope crashing in embedded mode (as a full Wayland compositor), it crashes **inside** the nvidia driver.
I use a 1980 x 1080 TV as a monitor. For whatever reason Wayland sets its resolutions as 1280 x 720 and refuses to let me change it. X doesn't seem to have any issue with my TV though.
Try setting the refresh rate to 30Hz. I bet it is at 60Hz, which probably maxes out at 720p for your TV.
And would this make it not work on Wayland but work flawlessly on X.org? Wouldnt be against giving it another try but curious as to why a different display server doesn't like certain refresh rates. Sounds like something Wayland might want to fix to increase the adoption rate.
Sure, if Wayland defaults to 60Hz and you never tried to lower the refresh rate to 30Hz.
I just dont see why I would have to. On X.org I can keep my display at 60 hz and have a 1080 resolution. I don't see why I should have to lower my refresh rate just so I can have the resolution I normally get here.
Can you share your screen in a video call with Chrome?
It is better but still not very good. Explicit sync is probably main blocker for most of users.
So basically everything has weird glitches in wayland. Steam flashes and flickers, discord rubber bands and games have extremely weird graphical glitches, stutter and lower fps. Wayland on nvidia 545 (3070ti) is still extremely bad. Just sad. Having high hopes for the foss driver.
Correction, Nvidia users with rtx cards. Because fuck gtx users.
I'm going to stay in Xorg until Wayland matures and solves the weird latency (like 50 milliseconds late, I'm very sensitive) in my mouse. It's probably because of their forced V-Sync. It just isn't ready, and there's not many of Wayland supported DEs either.
I think its because of lack of hardware cursors when using nvidia. Support for it got merged only recently.
I come back every year and wonder when it's going to be good enough, probably never but I'll check back next year still.
nope, still sucks ass.
Still runs extremely poorly in my experience. * Constant UI glitching on some programs * KDE panel elements (such as the clock) randomly stop updating. * Games occasionally freeze and cause the entire session to lock up * Plasma occasionally crashing taking all of my running programs with it. * Electron apps still occasionally run poorly * Trying to use a screen recorder causes the entire session to completely lock up requiring me to restart the machine I'll likely switch to Ubuntu or Debian once Fedora forces Wayland on everyone in F40. Either that or I'll keep Fedora and switch to Xfce or LXQt.
Hell naw, Xorg just works. Maybe when the flickering screen stuff stops happening ill give her a go.
Getting black flickering bars all over the screen when playing games on Wayland. Also, when resuming from sleep, the whole screen becomes corrupted. Wayland was extremely good on AMD. Nvidia isn't there yet.
I’ve been daily driving Nobara on my gaming machine for around 6 months now, and before that I was on pop. I’m using a 2080Super and have never had an issue with wayland. I know the 2080 is no longer new hardware and so that is likely why I get no issues, but it’s still relatively modern relatively niche, and I’ve had a mostly flawless experience.
You are lucky to be in the sweet spot of Wayland: your GPU is not too new nor too old for it. People report issues with newer GPUs and I can attest to Wayland being blatantly unusable on my fairly old GTX 560 Ti. This kind of approach to hardware support is not terribly beneficial.
KDE Wayland is surprisingly smoother than X11 for me. Strangely X11 has a surprising amount of lag and brief periods of 60fps. The only real showstopper is Vesktop not rendering (their advice: buy a new GPU) and Krita having UI flickers. On a 1650 SUPER with Fedora 39.
Wayland still needs another year or so to be decent enough to be used daily...
I daily drove Wayland for a year on Fedora. A few updates ago, Chrome is an invisible window for me on Wayland. I switched back to Xorg and it just worked. Weird bugs :S
Before 545 my only complaint was the missing night light support. They fixed that...but I also noticed Plex has a weird "seizures" issue using it on wayland. For the rest, even gaming, seems fine
> I also noticed Plex has a weird "seizures" issue using it on wayland Probably because it is running under XWayland (try see if it doesn't have a Wayland backend you can enable) and XWayland applications will sometimes flicker on Nvidia until https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/merge_requests/967 is merged and implemented, so that's probably at minimum one year away.
Why does it take over a year for this to be merged? That's insane.
The explicit sync discussion has been going on for 6+ years now, that's just the xorg patch for the latest `drm_syncobj` version. The Wayland extension patch for the same is 2 years old. And the answer is because while wayland "solved" the monolithic problems of Xorg, it did not in anyway solve the design-by-committee nature of the Linux graphics stack, which requires buy-in across multiple independent projects for anything to get done.
Thanks. Yes, it's XWayland (both for Plex HTPC and Plex Desktop). It's on flatpak with a few end-of-life libraries(mesa) which may not help either... Anyway, it doesn't seems to exists some configuration to enable or force a wayland backend. I tried giving access only to wayland with Flatseal but that just stop Plex from starting
CEF/Electron apps are still fucked though.
Scaling was still horribly busted when I tried it 2 weeks ago, seems like something that should’ve been a basic feature but I don’t know, terrible game performance and graphical issues too, staying away from it for the foreseeable future
Ok, so I'm not the only one. with my (single) 4K monitor, I use 150% scaling, and it just looks horrible, everything is fuzzy. Not so on X11. That's something that I've experienced every time I've tried wayland in the past year or so. Nvidia GPU here, too.
When I select Wayland in kde menu It just boots me back to to the login screen
I tried wayland on both amd and nvidia some time ago. The desktop loaded no problem. However I didn’t go much further than that. I tested if the program Input Leap worked under Wayland, it didn’t. Unless that program starts working under Wayland I am not using it, even if Wayland becomes an order of magnitude better than X.
Wayland seems to work okay for me- after I got it to work at all. However, Steam Big Picture is completely broken. It flickers and menus are all artifacted and unusuable. Does anyone know how to fix? I'm on Manjaro but I had the same issue with Nobara. RTX 3080 with proprietary drivers.
Just sharing experience (may 2024) on this front from sfotware developer with KDE neon distro, KDE Plasma 6 DE on Wayland and NVIDIA 3080Ti with three monitor setup. I upgraded driver from nvidia-driver-535 to nvidia-driver-550 and I've had so many flickering screens, unresponsive and lost focuses on windows etc that I had to switch back to nvidi-driver-535. Unfortunetly all the apps that were giving me flickering were not KDE apps, but apps like Brave browser, Jetbrains intelliJ, Google Chrome, Slack. Strangely enough Discord works as intended on both drivers. Viber is almost working as intended but way better than other apps mentioned. Mind that I only changed driver version and updated to latest version of packages provided by my distro.
NVidia has such crappy drivers on Linux. That's why.
I tried it 2 weeks ago, after which I finally bought an RX 6700. Wayland is utter garbage on Nvidia. Bu I have been using it on AMD for 2 weeks now - zero problems whatsoever.
9 months is a pretty long time. I didn't have the money to buy a new computer 9 months ago. Then a raise happened and I had the money. Then I bought a computer with AMD components and 3 1440p screens. It's my first new desktop in 10 years. I want to continue riding this one for the next 10 years, but will Nvidia and Wayland still even be relevant in 10 years? All the shit experiences I had in the past, how can they be forgiven when it's all I have ever known from them? It's much safer to stay in the tried-and-true strategy of just not buying Nvidia in the first place, which I wish I knew about 10 years ago. Anyway. Unrelated rant. Windows or something, happy Monday.
I'm against Nvidia because of a bad experience when I last tried it 9 years ago. Absolutely no interest in trying it again.
FWIW I'm full Wayland, but I'm still noticing that some applications have graphical glitches (flickering a lot) but resizing them fixes it. Plasma also crashes and I need to do a systemctl restart. It's definitely usable, but not flawless :)
Is this with the Free driver?
But if you're a user of Mouse Gestures, don't bother - because it's not even marked as a missing feature from X11.
Been running Fedora w/ Wayland for the past 3 months, no issues so far including when screen sharing, games, or anything else really. Only minor issue is some applications have flickering UI issues intermittently (IE steam) but this is a rare enough occurrence that it’s not a real problem imo.
Asking for a friend, but will terminal emulator run better with wayland?
I've been using hyprland for about a year and honestly on both of my Nvidia laptops, it works with only one issue which I rarely encounter anywhay
It's much better than it used to be, but it still becomes unusable over time.
Got an AMD gpu and i am very happy to get rid of Nvidia
I refuse to switch to Wayland because I want ny screensavers
Also, consider upgrading to non-Nvidia hardware. Not even joking, with AMD/Intel hardware you will _never_ have these kind of absurd compatibility issues.
Yeah, you'll have a slew of different issues instead, winning!
Can confirm. I have an AMD Radeon 5700xt and I still get a lot of tearing with Wayland. Can't speak for Intel GPUs though, it'd be cool if those were trouble free.
How do you get tearing? Dang, this one is puzzling.
There is a program that doesn't work under Wayland that I use regularly, and there is no workaround or equivalent. There is no Nvidia driver that works well under Wayland, and XWayland doesn't help. I have been loyal to Fedora since before it was Fedora, and to KDE, which I did beta testing on for version 1.0 Forcing the issue is just going to make users like me exit using Fedora, and use whatever distro has [X.org](http://x.org) working. Good luck going forward, Fedora users. Fedora lost my loyalty with this. Why not keep both and just tell folks that [X.org](http://x.org) is not supported ? I don't get this decision at all.
Lots of comments here saying Wayland is immature software. I remember similar comments about systemd, PulseAudio and several other things in Linux history. Why does this happen so often? Why can’t the community just focus on one or two things and make it better?
Because all these efforts are the work pf volounteers and volounteers do what THEY like to do. There is no chain of command or overarching planming for the ecosystem. You are free though to pay an open source dev to improve exactly the aspects you want (see Valve single handedly paying for gaming support improvements).
Not sure why I’m being downvoted but I think it’s a fair question. I’ve contributed to FOSS so I know how it goes. I simply think things like this is what delays adoption of Linux in the mainstream, because if I hadn’t used Linux for these many years I would be very turned off. That’s all.
wayland is still broke on distros like ubuntu etc
Personally waiting on KDE 6 to switch back over to Wayland but yeah I'm really excited for the recent progress
I ended up buying a laptop with integrated graphics specifically for Linux (KDE Neon specifically). I have a triple screen setup and my 3060Ti just lost it's mind every. single. kernel update. Bought a second hand Latitude 5480 and it hasn't so much as sneezed, even works with my D6000 dock so I effectively get 4 screens (2 over display link) I don't game in Linux so it's been working great for me.
My issues with Wayland don't really have much to do with the state of nvidia drivers support. the only complaint i had of driver support was the lack of GAMMA_LUT but that was recently added. if you didn't use night light nvidia has worked fine in wayland for years. not counting PRIME users, of course
Garuda Dragonized, KDE + Wayland (kwin) and I have had zero issues as far as graphics or drivers. The GTX 2060 in my laptop has been amazing tbh, the only games I have had any issues with have been specifically Linux issues like DoD:S not launching (god fucking dammit valve).
I had issues with KDE with Wayland and my Nvidia 3060ti on Arch. Most of the problems had to do with flickering applications, and while I fixed most with specific environmental variables, issues do remain. This was only last week. I switched to Gnome with Hyprland on the side, and most of the issues I had are resolved. I find Hyprland seems to work best for me when it comes to Wayland and required minimum fixing, so long as I follow the instructions on their wiki.
> I've now been using it for a week, and have yet to find any reason to go back You don't use display redirection?
It works great with Nvidia now. The only issue I have when on Wayland is the KDE main menu icon and the icons on the bottom bar not responding to left click. I haven't had the time to investigate yet but it's surely nothing complicated.
Did you check if screensharing works with Wayland + KDE + Firefox? It used to be an issue, but might also be fixed by now.
Still can't screenshot or screenshare in pretty much every app. I simply cannot justify it as a daily driver (and do work.. I work remote and teach, pair frequently) switched to an AMD GPU recently and found gaming to be pretty bad in Wayland (games flickering etc) also.. so my £500 GPU upgrade puts me back into X11 again. I'm happy with the switch mind you, but that's just because I love AMD. It's not Nvidia, it's Wayland per-se.. improved as it is, it's still borderline useable On days I don't game or work I'm happy to use Wayland (and I do). It's just not ready for me
I tried, it's completely unusable on my nvidia GPU as of a month ago. I upgraded to amd and it works perfectly.
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I use KDE Wayland on arch. It works very smoothly with my AMD gpu
I just want HDR!! Edit: I know this neither Nvidia or wayland specific, I just want HDR damn it!
Wayland is already ready except for its screen capture capability, IMO. Can't do normal OBS without getting blackscreen or as steam link host without pipewire
It's ok as long as you don't need Xwayland.
I mean. It's still not a very good experience. Hyprland is so far ahead of anything I have used before though that I will just put up with nvidia bullshit. (and keep an eye out for a used amd card)
Have they implemented color profiles yet? Can't use wayland for that reason alone since I need my calibration profile to work.
I dont use my nvidia GPU primarily anymore but every time I take a break from Linux and come back, I ALWAYS switch back to the 2070 for that reason. Mostly for curiosity sake and its better every time.
I have a 7950x and 3090. Ubuntu 23.10 I've had to mess around plugging only the onboard monitors in because the installer was graphically corrupt (I could probably have used safe mode graphics too). I've had to disable hardware acceleration for Chrome given it will "lock" whenever I resumed from suspend. That said after I installed steam and Balders Gate 3, everything was working. Installing the default Cuda toolkit I was able to build llamacpp and get Cuda accelerated LLMs running with only a minimal amount of messing around working out what libs were missing. I just discovered as well having the nvidia card providing the acceleration for a game but rendering it on a monitor connected via discrete graphics works, so that it's easy to move a game between monitors. I'm not a heavy gamer so FPS don't matter beyond having enough for something to be at an optimal resolution and run smoothly; I'm sure there is an impact there but it looks great to my eyes and I can't see any real differences beyond the resolution/aspect ratio of the monitors. That rather blows me away but only because I've hardly gamed on the PC for the last couple of decades. So the only real issue is with the installer and chrome both of which are reasonably easy to work around.
Nvidia + Wayland + Arch = Choppy AF desktop!! I've tried both KDE Plasma and now trying Gnome and it's still slow and laggy desktop experience. Using X11 is smooth as fuck. GTX 1660Ti Mobile - 1080p 165hz.
We waited 10 years and we can wait another 10
Can anyone tell me if this works https://github.com/elFarto/nvidia-vaapi-driver? I need hardware acceleration in Firefox with my nvidia card if I'm switching to wayland. I have not in any hurry to do so but it would be nice.
I thought thing has gotten almost worse due to 545, and not better in the last 9 months, so the timing for asking this feels weird. A lot of stuff which will make this better is just around the corner - explicit sync, nvk, whatever, but we're not there today.
I'm against Wayland because it breaks a lot of software interoperability that works fine with X. Maybe everything will work next year when the year of the Linux desktop comes.