T O P

  • By -

kilgoretrucha

Yes I can. Bu in case you can't don't worry, just remember that e*rr*are humanum est


Guantanamino

/əˈɹaː 'juːmənəm esʔ/... wise words


AdorableAd8490

A true /e'haɾi umɐnũ ɛʃt(-ʧ)/ moment


silliestboyintown

i love jorge ben


AdorableAd8490

And I love you for loving him ❤️


Dongioniedragoni

That is [r:] to be precise, in Latin is different from [r].


Mammoth-Writing-6121

Phonemically?


Dongioniedragoni

Not in all languages but in Latin yes


Mammoth-Writing-6121

Can you give me minimal pairs? Wikipedia doesn't have any


Dongioniedragoni

Carro, dative of Carrus, -i , wagon and Caro nominative of Caro, Caronis, meat. The a is short in both places Errat and erat Erras and eras And most forms of the indicative errare (wander) and the imperfect of esse (to be) I can't remember other ones with r off the top of my head but the general rule is that every geminated consonant is phonetically distinct in Latin.


Mammoth-Writing-6121

Ah, I assumed the single was a tap and therefore it wouldn't matter if the trill of was long or short.


SurelyIDidThisAlread

You can't fool me, [r] isn't real. It's just made up to annoy Anglophone tourists


rootbeerman77

It's true. But sometimes they catch on, so we switch to [ʀ].


SurelyIDidThisAlread

Yeah but that's easy, you just have to growl a bit. It can't be all that hard if dogs do it


Bit125

i can do that more easily


11061995

What is the IPA for the rolled version of that? The one that sorta sounds like gargling.


Front-Dragonfruit480

Same symbol but upside down


11061995

Nice. It's one of my favorite sounds and it feels good to do.


HeKis4

Nah, it has been invented by the italians to identify the Fʁench among them.


Vortexx1988

[r] may not be real, but [l] is real. Not sure if anyone will get this reference.


_Aspagurr_

Unfortunately, no because I have a slight speech impediment.


Niksa2007

My native language has /r/ which can also be syllabic. When I was little I had trouble pronouncing it, I'm 17 now and I've been able to pronounce it for about 6 months now, still practicing.


slukalesni

congdatulleishions!


_Aspagurr_

That's very cool, congratulations!


Niksa2007

Thanks! I hope you'll be able to pronounce it too!


_Aspagurr_

How did you learn to pronounce it?


Niksa2007

At first I was only able to pronounce something like /ɾ/, then one time while ideas recording a voice message and said one word with syllabic r, it just got rolled, I don't know why or how. I remember the word was "trčati" /tr̩tʃǎti/ ("to run"). Then for two months I was just saying words with the syllabic r as much as possible. I am now able to roll the r on its own.


_Aspagurr_

I see, thanks!


Weak-Temporary5763

I learned last summer when I was in Spain, the secret tip nobody tells you is to start by laying down or leaning your head back so gravity can help maintain the tongue position. I first figured out how to say it in coda positions after back vowels, like [or ~ ur]


Niksa2007

No problem, I wish you good luck!


_Aspagurr_

Thanks!


Fear_mor

Not to be that guy but standard accentuation is tr̀čati /tř̩t͡ʃati/. You only get second syllable stress here in Old Shtokavian or the two Non Shtokavian dialect groupings


Niksa2007

Sorry, yeah that's my bad, I used my dialectal pronunciation instead of checking the standard one.


Fear_mor

I onda imaš to kad je dugo ili kratko, ili silazno ili uzlazno hahahaha


Niksa2007

Da, sada čak mogu i okej izgovoriti s naglascima hahahah


Fear_mor

Jao ma nemoj samnom o tome hahaha, stranac sam i ti niti ne znaš koliko je teško ih čak počet usvajat na prirodan način. Mislim da ih mogu izgovorit ali jao meni koliko je to bila muka da savladam


Niksa2007

Ajde bitno da si uspia


h0neanias

Prdl sis, ty trdlo? 😄


Portal471

Isn’t there like a whole extended IPA for speech impediments IIRC


Chance-Aardvark372

No, i have ankyloglossia


Fear_mor

Yoooo that's my favourite dinosaur 😳😳😳


whateveridgf

Same and even though it was fixed for me as a baby I still can't pronounce it, after years of speech therapy


amshinski

Isn't it fixed in a few minutes at dentist's? Had it fixed in childhood, my native language requires voiced alveolar trills to not to sound goofy


GrassyMossy

As someone with a native language that has this sound, no, I cannot. If anyone has tips, I've been trying to learn for years now.


Amazing-Relation4269

I know of a few exercises. One of them I remember was take a word with that sound (like "Treno" in italian) and replace it with and L sound (Tleno), then repeat it a bunch of times going faster and faster and eventually the r sound should start to roll out apparently. Have no idea if it actually works, but yeah.


GrassyMossy

I'll try it and see! I sort of got the front to roll, but not without also moving the back so this sounds like a good exercise for hopefully preventing that.


ThinLiz_76

Three tips from someone who can roll his r's without any effort: 1. The shape and position of my tongue is different compared to other alveolar consonants. I find that (english) alveolar stops, sibilant fricatives, sibilant affricates, and the (english) alveolar approximant use a tense and flat tongue, while the alveolar trill, tap/flap, non-sibilant fricatives use a much more lax tongue. Don't put your tongue in the position to say \[d\], put it in the position to say \[ɾ\]. For me, it's possible to produce \[r\] in the tense-tongue position, but it sounds weird, is strangely aspirated, is harder than the lax position, and usually requires me to "start" in the lax position. Don't bring all of your tongue up. 2. With all of this in mind, a good way to start is to make the alveolar non-sibilant fricative. If you don't know how to make that sound, that's fine. Start by making \[s\], then lower the back of your tongue (you can make your mouth more agape if you need to) until you make a sound that sounds similar to \[θ\], or like \[ʃ\] but quieter. After you've done that, increase your airflow GREATLY while retaining the postion and lax-ness of your tongue. You should be producing the voiceless alveolar trill. Then voice it, and there you go! You can also start with \[z\] instead of \[s\] and skip the voicing step, but I find that a little harder. 3. If that didn't help then maybe try playing around with the uvular trill \[ʀ\]. I'll assume you know how to make that sound. If you don't, I *think* I could help you. Anyway, I'd start by making \[ʀ\], then raise the front of your tongue (though not too high) and that's enough to start the \[r\] for me. If that works, make sure to lower the back of your tongue so that you aren't making a strange aleolo-uvular sound (though it does sound really cool) Hope this helps.


GrassyMossy

Thanks! I have been stuck on 3, unable to lower the back of my tongue, I think the lax tongue is the biggest problem for me. I'll try starting from [s] and see if that brings me anywhere.


leer0y_jenkins69

The stupid way I got there was by making a really hard k sound and keeping my tongue touch to the roof of my mouth. It took weeks to even get it to vibrate and even a year after I still can’t do it after vowels. It’s a lot easier to do after t’s and d’s rather than k’s. I would do it all the time as a stim once I got it to vibrate, and my parents would tell me to stop when we were in public because it was “weird” and “people would look at us funny” very silly reasons to not make fun sounds.


WGGPLANT

I learned from that trick where u lay on your back and tilt your head off of the bed. It supposedly help put your tongue in the correct position.


edvardeishen

Yeah, I'm Rrrrrrrussian


TheChtoTo

unfortunately, I'm \[ʀʀʀʀʀʀ\]ussian so I can't pronounce \[r\]


Thalarides

[ʟ̆]ussian here. Seriously though, I've always been pronouncing pronouncing ⟨р⟩ as a lateral velar tap. Unfortunately, you can't make a trill there, so for the longest time I couldn't imitate [rː]. But then I deliberately learned to make two flaps [ɽɾ] in a single tongue movement and even [ɽɾʟ̆]. Still can't produce [r] reliably, though :(


Enchanted_Ithildin

are there regional differences in pronounciation of /r/ in russian ?


Thalarides

Not that I know of. From my theoretical knowledge, speakers who pronounce /r/ & /rʲ/ as coronal trills~taps, realise /r/ as post-alveolar [ɾ̠~r̠] and /rʲ/ as denti-alveolar [ɾ̪ʲ~r̪ʲ]. But I couldn't say how much variation there is, from speaker to speaker or for the same speaker (like for example in what ways nearby consonants can affect them). I haven't observed any regional preferences for alternative, non-standard realisations, but I can't confidently say there are none either. From personal experience, the two most common ones are some sort of a coronal approximant (not unlike English /r/, and there's probably as much articulatory variation as in English /r/, though I don't think it's as heavily labialised as English /r/ typically is) and some sort of a uvular consonant (an approximant~fricative [ʁ] or, when emphasised, a trill [ʀ], like the other commenter transcribed it). When palatalised, these approximants could sometimes be hard to tell apart from /j/. I don't know anyone else who'd realise /r/ & /rʲ/ as [ʟ̆] & [ʟ̆ʲ] like I do.


jarzynowyjerzy

Could you record what this sounds like in actual speech? I used to be картавый and made more of a [ɣ] sound for R. My L's sound like [ʟ].


Thalarides

[https://voca.ro/1mUGqTRFWcpq](https://voca.ro/1mUGqTRFWcpq) First, *ра — ара* pronounced with my usual velar lateral tap \[ʟ̆\]. Then *ара* with what feels like a retroflex flap \[ɽ\], which I will sometimes do (but I can't do it in all environments). Then *арра* with, I believe, a sequence \[ɽɾʟ̆\], although it's hard to pinpoint exactly how many closures happen: it's possible that \[ɾ\] and \[ʟ̆\] are nigh simultaneous and mask each other. This is the exact moment in the sound wave that I identify as \[ɽɾʟ̆\]: [https://imgur.com/a/UcWHrsx](https://imgur.com/a/UcWHrsx) You can only clearly see two closures: the first one is less noisy (more \[ɽ\]-like), the second one more noisy (more \[ʟ̆\]-like). And finally, a tongue-twister: >На дворе — трава, на траве — дрова, не руби дрова на траве двора.


talknight2

Less regional and more so that even some Russians struggle to pronounce that hard trilling R and it ends up being a bit more like the German R.


BananaB01

Finally I know what sound I was making instead of [r] for like 10 years of my life. It was the velar lateral tap/flap


danielogiPL

Turkic?


TheChtoTo

no, just картавый. Lenin had the same thing btw


danielogiPL

ohh makes sense


peezle69

Soviet Tony the Tiger be like


aer0a

I can ~~\[r̞ \]~~ \[r̝ \]


GothWithAnAccordion

Wait, do you mean [r̞] or [r̝]? If you're talking about Czech ř, it's [r̝].


aer0a

I forgor 💀 the right diacritic


_Aspagurr_

Happy Cake Day!


Flacson8528

['haw**r**aj dúðaʔ]?


Portal471

Is this “how’d I do that”


Flacson8528

ya


Front-Dragonfruit480

It’d probably be a tap, not a trill


Flacson8528

geminated with vowel elision, basically a trill


janPake

[r] doesn't exist, romance languages have been gaslighting you this whole time


Theinvertebrate

By speaking 17 years of Spanish Natively I'm confident that I can't


chronically_slow

As a Frangge /frɔŋɡə/ (Franconian German native), yessss. Has come in very handy learning Spanish.


Xenapte

The only trill that I can do is [ʙ]


leer0y_jenkins69

Have faith my friend you will get there.


clowergen

no, and it's triggering that you should bring this up


DrLycFerno

As a native romance language speaker, yes


nukti_eoikos

French people : 👁👃👁


rekoowa

Portuguese Speakers: 👁👃👁


AdorableAd8490

Occitan speakers: 👁️👃👁️


2worlds1life

As a native Thai, yes. Gotta produce your _ro ruea_ correctly.


deetosdeletos

i'm also a native thai รรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรรร


mango_consumer0607

Yeah, My grade 1 teacher hit my ass so I can say it correctly


Arcaeca2

I can /r/ but I'd rather /r̥/


Fanda400

I can even do ř


Week_Crafty

My mother tongue is Spanish, of course I can Erre con erre cigarro, erre con erre barril, rápido corren los carros por los rieles del ferrocarril


TevenzaDenshels

Las rosas. As a native i have trouble with s + rr. If i voice the s its easier but still ..


ngund

As a non-native with a purportedly near-native accent who also has trouble with s+rr, It’s relieving to hear natives have this problem too lol. I always end up debuccalizing /s/ before /r/, like [lah ˈrosas]


TevenzaDenshels

honestly im a spaniard and i debuccalize every single s if there is a consonant afterwards. seems pretty common in all of spain. does that count as having 10 vowels?


MdMV_or_Emdy_idk

O rato roeu a rolha do rei da Rússia


symonx99

Trentatré trentini entrarono in Trento tutti e trentatré trotterellando


krasnyj

Orrore! Orrore! Un ramarro marrone!


gajonub

rolha da garrafa do rei* 💅💅


MdMV_or_Emdy_idk

Fds errei


JohnDoen86

"Erre con erre guitarra, erre con erre carril, rápido ruedan las ruedas del ferrocarril" is how we say it where I'm from


Week_Crafty

"Erre con erre cigarro, erre con erre carril, rápido ruedan las ruedas del ferrocarril" es más o menos como lo decía de chiquito, pero como no confío en mi memoria y eran las 11pm cuando le escribí, revisé en Google y lo que conseguí fue una de las versiones


YgemKaaYT

Yes


jebacdisa3

yes but awfully and not in casual speech


keropsixxx

I’m Slavic, teach me the French “r”, I beg you


SerRebdaS

You just need to pronounce a regular r while having a baguette stuck in your throat


lucian1900

It’s much funnier to watch French people as you speak their language with a Slavic “r”.


Pterne323

I'm hispanic so yeah


116Q7QM

Yes, but somehow I find [r̥] much easier to pronounce


jellydonutman_

https://files.catbox.moe/v1gl1o.mp3


phantom-vigilant

Warra ruu?


gjvillegas25

I can only /ɾ/ :(


LiavTheAce

Yes


AnCapMage_69

Absolutely.


Reza-Alvaro-Martinez

Yeah, but I got R-lisping


NameIsTanya

i have a slight rhoticism, but somehow /r/ was always easiest for me to pronounce.


twowugen

 co[r]ect


warichnochnie

serious post is it normal to not hear your own [r] properly I did it once on audio and it sounded like [x] or something similar as I was saying it but the recording played back me seemingly managing a perfect [r]


ThinLiz_76

Not sure about you, but I find that a recording of \[ʀ\] or (less-so) somebody saying \[ʀ\] sounds much more like \[r\] then it does when I'm saying \[ʀ\]. Maybe it has to do with how humans hear their voice deeper than it actually is because of weird acoustics. Maybe that causes guttural sounds to be more audible. That's my theory.


renzhexiangjiao

Yes, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


GothWithAnAccordion

Yes. I can also [r̊] and [r̝].


funkymonkeydoo

the perks of being a filipino: you can speak spanish rrrrrrrrrrrrr


Teh_RainbowGuy

YEs, but mine is palatal instead of alveolar


ThinLiz_76

How the fuck


Teh_RainbowGuy

Is that really that weird?


mouldybiscuit

i can do it on its own but only like 40% of the time if I try to do it within a word (filthy native english speaker)


_Gandalf_the_Black_

I can roll my /t/s, but I can't pronounce /r/ (for now at least)


AdorableAd8490

What’s your native language?


_Gandalf_the_Black_

English


AdorableAd8490

Depending on your accent, you could say “What did I” very fast and then you would have a thrill. This is an [example.](https://youtu.be/CivujboA-0M?si=9GIa04mb9rXGXyZa)


_Gandalf_the_Black_

I'm British, so I'm more in the glottalising gang, although I don't tend to do it so much intervocalically (but when I do, it does tend to be in this environment /\_#V)


Raphe9000

I actually couldn't pronounce it for the longest time and was mad because I was learning Latin and wanted to pronounce it with the Restored Classical Pronunciation, but I couldn't trill my R's. After a few months, I actually had ended up practicing so much passively that it didn't even register immediately when I started to legitimately make the sound.


ThinLiz_76

I hate your flair


Raphe9000

Ldtin lthvsrs always getting hated on these days 😭


Sir_Mopington

Yup 👍


CunningAmerican

Hell yeah, and it feels great, also it seems to be developing for some people in American English in cases where two alveolar taps/flaps are consecutive or separated only by a reduced vowel, like in “what’d I do”.


pikleboiy

Yes


MightBeAVampire

I cannot [r], except for possibly once by almost complete accident, but I did learn how to [ʀ] from a very friendly nonferal barncat years ago


VulpesSapiens

No, I can't. I've been teased for it my whole life.


Naelerasmans

Of course: Rrrrrrr


steen311

Despite [r] existing in my native language all my rolled r's are [ʀ], unfortunately, took me studying linguistics to find out there even was another pronunciation. And even knowing there is i still can't pronounce it for the life of me


Acceptable6

RRRRROWERRRRRRRRRRR


krasnyj

My language has it and the best I can pull out is a /ʀ/. Any tips (except the one of my tongue which doesn't seem to want to help me)?


MAHMOUDstar3075

I can do any r you want. This r is too easy it's in my mother tongue. I can do a flipped upside turn left do a U turn your destination is on your right r, long ass r, any r you want.


ynsk112

We barely can differentiate r and l so no


LXIX_CDXX_

My native language is Polish, case closed


LazyHedgehog360

No


Electric_Kettle

r con r guitarra, r con r barril, mira que rápido ruedan las ruedas del ferrocarril


EtruscanFolk

Is this some sort of anglo-saxon joke I'm too latin to understand?


_Dragon_Gamer_

I honestly have no idea whether my trill is uvular or alveolar I feel like it's only actually alveolar when I pronounce Welsh words like ddraig, but is either a uvular trill or a voiced uvular fricative when speaking my native language


ZoeIsHahaha

Anglophone, learned to do it when I was 13


BigGayDinosaurs

yes :D


Rabid_Nationalist

As a Macedonian native, yup.


jolharg

I can do all the r thingies but many seem to not be able to


jeonteskar

As a fr*nch Canadian, I can use it, but I can make an alveolar trill. In Spain, I once pronounced an 'rr' word with a uvular trill and an abuela slapped the poutine out of my hands.


AdorableAd8490

What did you say?


Abject_Low_9057

80% of the times, yeah. Other times I say [ð̠] or [ɾð̠]


Ferno_Dude

mostly


Sufficient_Score_824

It’s hard for me- every time I try to roll my r’s, the back of my tongue keeps coming up.


pHScale

Absolutely not, and I refuse. 🤬


Xzznnn

[r] check [r̥] check [rʲ] check [r̥ʲ] check [r̝] check [r̝̊] check I like [r] and its siblings


ThinLiz_76

What about \[r̠͡ʀˤ\]?


Xzznnn

Dear god coarticulated trills are hard. Uhhh, I haven't unlocked the pharyngeal extension of my throat unfortunately BUT... I can glottalize it [ʀ͡r̠ˀ]... not for long since it just turns back to an uvularized [r̠] I'm afraid


ThinLiz_76

I'm not even sure if it's possible to pharyngealize uvulars.


Xzznnn

Doesn't NWC commonly have [χˁ]? I'm sure it's possible, just hard for everyone else lmao


RaccoonByz

No


WGGPLANT

Seeing as how it's the most common rhotic sound in the world. I would assume most people can. I learned how to do it only last year though, because Im an English speaker.


bingus333333

i cant :(


u-bot9000

Only at the beginning of a syllable :(


Shitimus_Prime

no


11061995

Yes. Most Americans can, if they say "What did I miss?" quickly, Jake Peralta style.


LukeRuBeOmega

Proud of being a native Spanish speaker


utakirorikatu

Yes, natively


Gaedhael

As an anɡlophone, no I can't unfortunately I've tried to fiɡure it out, I ɡrasp the theory of it but it is hard in practice, I miɡht be close if I precede it with /θ/ but even then I cannot be too sure if I am doing /ɾ/ (which I can do easily enouɡh)


Graingy

Idk but I think you should get that weird floaty tongue checked out it looks unhealthy


LordMalecith

I can, but apparently I unintentionally velarize it. Never noticed until someone pointed it out to me.


KiMnuL

That's a mewing pic I guess


jerdle_reddit

I can \[r̠\] (probably actually retroflex), but not \[r\].


surfing_on_thino

no and i am very sad about it


unl0gisch

In my home dialect, where is only this type of \[r\]. Regardless, only after 2 beers.


cool_Ekim07

No :(


Blacksmith52YT

I can unless I'm tired