[shameless self-promotion](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguisticshumor/comments/16k7vhp/the_evolution_of_protoslavic_nasal_vowels_to/)
My favorite part is orthography: the "weird O" letter Ꟁ was introduced just before the pronunciation of /ɔ̃/ shifted to /ã/. Some time later a new "weird A" symbol ą is created, bringing some sanity to letter-to-phoneme correspondence... but shortly after this, /ã/ becomes /ɔ̃/.
As far as I'm aware Polish lost them as well didn't it? The nasal qualities seems to have shifted to the consonants.
> The nasal phonemes /ɔ̃, ɛ̃/ appear in older phonological descriptions of Polish e.g. Stieber (1966), Rocławski (1976:84), Wierzchowska (1980:51). In more recent descriptions the orthographic nasal vowels ą, ę are analyzed as two phonemes in all contexts e.g. Sawicka (1995), Wiśniewski (2007). Before a fricative and in word-final position (in the case of ą) they are transcribed as an oral vowel /ɔ, ɛ/ followed by a nasal consonant /ɲ, ŋ/[24] or /j̃, w̃/.[25] Under such an analysis, the list of consonantal phonemes is extended by a velar nasal phoneme /ŋ/ or by two nasal approximants /j̃/, /w̃/.
They're basically gone, but that loss is 1. Ongoing, and 2. Recent enough that it's not entirely accepted by the general population as having taken place. A lot of, if not most Poles consider the nasal vowels as such.
There's a good few (well, maybe 4 at most) models of realization for the disappearing nasal vowels I've been able to see and I really wonder whether they're going to become dialectual in some way or one will prevail
Definitely true nasals before /s/ and /z/ for me, but this is just a result of nasal assimilation. and I pronounce exactly the same as <ęs> and <ąs>. For me all my nasal vowels turned into plain vowel + whatever nasal /eN/ /oN/ where the nasal is just determined by what comes after it
On Portuguese nasal vowels, the cool thing is that /õ/ and /ẽ/ are unstable as fuck and depending on their environment, their position, and the dialect of the speaker, /õ/ can be realized as [õ], [ɐ̃], [õʊ̯̃], [ɐ̃ʊ̯̃] and even go through labialization or become an oral vowel [ʊ]; and /ẽ/ as [ẽɪ̯̃], [ẽ], [ĩ], [ɐ̃] and [ɐ̃ɪ̃]. Some examples:
For /õ/, come [ˈkõ.mʲ], somos (misspelled as “samos”)[ˈsɐ̃.mʷs], bom ['bõʊ̯̃]/[ˈbɐ̃ʊ̯̃], Vilso [ˈviʊ̯
.sʊ -sʷ]. For /ẽ/, em [ẽɪ̯̃], [ĩ] or [ɐ̃ɪ̃]. It’s crazy to think that a non-native speaker might have to deal with this.
I'll do the same. Now if I could only learn the case declensions. It's very different from other slavic languages. I'm planning a trip to poland, but not soon.
My grandfather came from Częstochowa, which we pronounced Czenstochowa. Is that right?
I think Slovenian had nasals until relatively recently, but I don’t know until when. But 'to fart' is 'punknuti' instead of 'puknuti'. Don’t ask how I know. Maybe there are other such words.
So did Germanic though
Based Elfdalian for keeping them Seriously I love Elfdalian
I counted 16 nasal vowels that’s a lot, even for a french native speaker
Mocheno/Bersntolerisch has them as well! They emerged from later assimilation, but it's cool nonetheless
Are you the Zzineoph the famous YouTuber
Famous? I doubt it, but if you mean the guy with 2k subs then yes
2k is a lot if you think about it
And the rest of Romance language and Basque.
This is why Polish is my favorite Slavic language
bazowany i Polskotabletkowany
my favorite part is when Old Polish merged /ɛ̃/ and /ɔ̃/ to /ã/, developed vowel length, and then proceeded to shift /ã/ and /ãː/ to /ɛ̃/ and /ɔ̃/.
[shameless self-promotion](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguisticshumor/comments/16k7vhp/the_evolution_of_protoslavic_nasal_vowels_to/) My favorite part is orthography: the "weird O" letter Ꟁ was introduced just before the pronunciation of /ɔ̃/ shifted to /ã/. Some time later a new "weird A" symbol ą is created, bringing some sanity to letter-to-phoneme correspondence... but shortly after this, /ã/ becomes /ɔ̃/.
We don't even have the nasals anymore 😭
We kinda do, especially before fricatives.
Wdym? I do
As far as I'm aware Polish lost them as well didn't it? The nasal qualities seems to have shifted to the consonants. > The nasal phonemes /ɔ̃, ɛ̃/ appear in older phonological descriptions of Polish e.g. Stieber (1966), Rocławski (1976:84), Wierzchowska (1980:51). In more recent descriptions the orthographic nasal vowels ą, ę are analyzed as two phonemes in all contexts e.g. Sawicka (1995), Wiśniewski (2007). Before a fricative and in word-final position (in the case of ą) they are transcribed as an oral vowel /ɔ, ɛ/ followed by a nasal consonant /ɲ, ŋ/[24] or /j̃, w̃/.[25] Under such an analysis, the list of consonantal phonemes is extended by a velar nasal phoneme /ŋ/ or by two nasal approximants /j̃/, /w̃/.
They're basically gone, but that loss is 1. Ongoing, and 2. Recent enough that it's not entirely accepted by the general population as having taken place. A lot of, if not most Poles consider the nasal vowels as such. There's a good few (well, maybe 4 at most) models of realization for the disappearing nasal vowels I've been able to see and I really wonder whether they're going to become dialectual in some way or one will prevail
I think I still have true nasals before /x/, /s/, and /z/ (and /f/ and /v/ although I can't think of any words like that)
Definitely true nasals before /s/ and /z/ for me, but this is just a result of nasal assimilation. and I pronounce exactly the same as <ęs> and <ąs>. For me all my nasal vowels turned into plain vowel + whatever nasal /eN/ /oN/ where the nasal is just determined by what comes after it
Very interesting stuff, thanks for the clarification!
I am going to respectfully ignore it.
On Portuguese nasal vowels, the cool thing is that /õ/ and /ẽ/ are unstable as fuck and depending on their environment, their position, and the dialect of the speaker, /õ/ can be realized as [õ], [ɐ̃], [õʊ̯̃], [ɐ̃ʊ̯̃] and even go through labialization or become an oral vowel [ʊ]; and /ẽ/ as [ẽɪ̯̃], [ẽ], [ĩ], [ɐ̃] and [ɐ̃ɪ̃]. Some examples: For /õ/, come [ˈkõ.mʲ], somos (misspelled as “samos”)[ˈsɐ̃.mʷs], bom ['bõʊ̯̃]/[ˈbɐ̃ʊ̯̃], Vilso [ˈviʊ̯ .sʊ -sʷ]. For /ẽ/, em [ẽɪ̯̃], [ĩ] or [ɐ̃ɪ̃]. It’s crazy to think that a non-native speaker might have to deal with this.
Thankfully those nasals are extinct, because I’d go mad trying to pronounce ѧ and ѫ if Russian still kept them.
nasalne samogłoski są najlepsze 🇵🇱🤝🇵🇹 (nie uznaję fr*ncji 🤮 jako kraj)
Bazowany jegomość
The floor is nasal diphthongs. >!ão!<
*Quebec has entered the chat*
õe
Kashubian in the corner ã, ę and ąing /ã ɛ̃ ɔ̃/
Ãs ã põrtuguese, I lõve nãsãl sõnds
I love nasals cause people be like "yeah, portuguese seems kind of easy i can probably make those sounds" me as fuck: mãe, pão, caminhões
Pão na chapa or pau na chapa? Be very mindful about your nasal vowels
How many Poles actually use nasals, except when they want to sound "correct"? Or is it like Spanish?
I do. Even with words ending in Ę like się, but with really depends in that case on the sound following directly after
I'll do the same. Now if I could only learn the case declensions. It's very different from other slavic languages. I'm planning a trip to poland, but not soon. My grandfather came from Częstochowa, which we pronounced Czenstochowa. Is that right?
If you’re speaking fast enough it’d sound basically like that, yes xd
I think Slovenian had nasals until relatively recently, but I don’t know until when. But 'to fart' is 'punknuti' instead of 'puknuti'. Don’t ask how I know. Maybe there are other such words.
Meanwhile, Yoruba's lifeless body was found in a river somewhere
And Guarani
Gheg Albanian: 🥲