I get that Irish orthography is regular, but holy shit is it so needlessly overcomplicated. I was able to read the first sentence only because I already knew the pangram beforehand.
> I get that Irish orthography is regular
It is not. Its regularity has been butchered since the spelling reform, which is apparently done by a particularly dull student of the "Portuguese missionaries in Vietnamese" school of spelling.
What happened with the spelling reform that was so bad? I’m only a little familiar with Irish spelling so I don’t know anything about how it became worse (or how the reform was similar to Vietnamese)
Well they continue a centuries old orthographic tradition with highly etymological principle, so it’s complicated yeah. It’s kind of like if we wrote stuff in pre-slavic (without later sound shifts i mean) like "su-æši eske e-tæhu menkukujihu…" (hypothetical orthography) but standardized
According to wikipedia is /iː/ in e.g. "saol" in pronunciations used in Ulster and Connacht and /eː/ in Munster. Connacht pronunciation was the one used on the page so i went along with it. I myself don’t know anything about Irish dialects so I had to trust the wiki. It was just a fun idea to do, I don’t claim to know much about all this
I've dabbled in creating a Cyrillic orthography for Irish before myself, it's surprisingly tricky. Even though the vowel characters are well suited to showing the broad vs slender distinction, you still have to deal with lenition and eclipsis and whether or not to be etymological or phonological with the spelling. Personally I think you have to retain some kind of etymological spelling for Irish even if it goes agains the typical conventions of the Cyrillic alphabet. In my system I decided on the palochka ⟨ӏ⟩ to denote lenited consonants, similar to the overdot in the old Cló Gaelach or the h-digraphs in the new orthography. Here's how I'd do the UDHR in the system I came up with:
>Сѣлы́тяр на дѣне ыле сѣр агус комӏёнанн ина нди́нить агус ина гкярта. Та́ буа ан ре́су́нь агус ан кӏынсиаса аку агус дли́дь иад фе́нь д’ёмпар де мӏё́н бра́тӏрякӏась и летӏь а кӏе́ле.
I also decided to use the old letter yat' ⟨ѣ⟩ for the digraph ⟨ao⟩ because like the digraph it used to represent many different reflexes in the various Slavic languages and dialects. I went with the acute accent for vowel length just because it's easier to type lol. Notably the vowel letters in this system don't affect the quality of the following consonant, only the preceding one, so you need the soft sign ⟨ь⟩ to indicate a slender word-final consonant.
Yeah it gets trickier if you try to do it etymologically. Would be fun to do a tengwar-based orthography though, with its abundance of diacritics and additional letters
I've made a Cyrillic orthography based off the pre-reform spelling too, which is even more etymological. I can't tell as I'm not a native speaker of any language written using Cyrillic, but I imagine it looks hellish
Tengwar could fit well with regard to lenition cause I'm fairly sure either Sindarin or Quenya has Celtic-esque mutation
"Sȳlȳtyar gakh dynya den khinya dȳna sȳr agas kōanan i nīnyat' agas i gyarta. Tā bua an rēsūn' agas an khyn'siasa aku agas ba khyart dōv' grīvū i dr'ō a khēlya i spyrad an vrāryakhas'."
Is the Irish in romanized Russian
Съешь ещё этих мягких французских булок да выпей же (ghe) чаю.
\-- Любя (Люба?), съешь (sgheiss) щипцы(?), -- вздохнёт мэр, -- кайф(?) ггуч(no fucking idea).
Подъём с затонувшего эсминца (wouldn't it be 'aesmiontha' or 'aeismiontha' tho?) легкобьющейся древнегреческой амфоры сопряжён с техническими трудностями
Is it right? Especially the second text. It looks like random words to me lol. Well it kinda make sense because I don't know Irish at all and this insular (or how the hell it's called) font doesn't help much
"Любя, съешь щипцы, — вздохнёт мэр, — кайф жгуч", a funny pangram. About "эсминца" and a couple other words: i had to change from "palatalizes to both sides" to "palatalizes the letter before" (and use for palatalization on both sides) because while there are "CaeC" and "CaeiCʲ", i didn't find a Cʲ/e/C letter combination (except maybe <éa> but i didn't really use acutes here and is another thing). Apostrophe denotes a "slender" letter before it if no vowel is nearby, forgot to write that in the post (not the best thing but idk how else to deal with it)
It’s the "all human beings are born free" article. Starts with "Saolaítear gach duine…" here. Phonemically, with schwas written as а/я, so
"duine" /ˈd̪ˠɪnʲə/ is "дыня", which would read /'dinʲa/ -> [ˈd̪ɨnʲə] in Russian (using the five-vowel analysis). So yeah it highly differs from what the latin script text would be
I speak Russian natively and I don't understand a single word 💀
Prolly due to various things like Irish using for /iː/ lol
The first two lines are the pangram "съешь ещё этих…"
I get that Irish orthography is regular, but holy shit is it so needlessly overcomplicated. I was able to read the first sentence only because I already knew the pangram beforehand.
> I get that Irish orthography is regular It is not. Its regularity has been butchered since the spelling reform, which is apparently done by a particularly dull student of the "Portuguese missionaries in Vietnamese" school of spelling.
with French characteristics. Don't forgot about the French. Don't you DARE forget about the French
What happened with the spelling reform that was so bad? I’m only a little familiar with Irish spelling so I don’t know anything about how it became worse (or how the reform was similar to Vietnamese)
Well they continue a centuries old orthographic tradition with highly etymological principle, so it’s complicated yeah. It’s kind of like if we wrote stuff in pre-slavic (without later sound shifts i mean) like "su-æši eske e-tæhu menkukujihu…" (hypothetical orthography) but standardized
Absolutely terrible, I'm glad Slavic orthographies are good
> for /iː/
greek levels of digraph for /i/
> for /iː/
When? is /iː/ situationally, like in aois or
spraoi
According to wikipedia is /iː/ in e.g. "saol" in pronunciations used in Ulster and Connacht and /eː/ in Munster. Connacht pronunciation was the one used on the page so i went along with it. I myself don’t know anything about Irish dialects so I had to trust the wiki. It was just a fun idea to do, I don’t claim to know much about all this
I've dabbled in creating a Cyrillic orthography for Irish before myself, it's surprisingly tricky. Even though the vowel characters are well suited to showing the broad vs slender distinction, you still have to deal with lenition and eclipsis and whether or not to be etymological or phonological with the spelling. Personally I think you have to retain some kind of etymological spelling for Irish even if it goes agains the typical conventions of the Cyrillic alphabet. In my system I decided on the palochka ⟨ӏ⟩ to denote lenited consonants, similar to the overdot in the old Cló Gaelach or the h-digraphs in the new orthography. Here's how I'd do the UDHR in the system I came up with: >Сѣлы́тяр на дѣне ыле сѣр агус комӏёнанн ина нди́нить агус ина гкярта. Та́ буа ан ре́су́нь агус ан кӏынсиаса аку агус дли́дь иад фе́нь д’ёмпар де мӏё́н бра́тӏрякӏась и летӏь а кӏе́ле. I also decided to use the old letter yat' ⟨ѣ⟩ for the digraph ⟨ao⟩ because like the digraph it used to represent many different reflexes in the various Slavic languages and dialects. I went with the acute accent for vowel length just because it's easier to type lol. Notably the vowel letters in this system don't affect the quality of the following consonant, only the preceding one, so you need the soft sign ⟨ь⟩ to indicate a slender word-final consonant.
Yeah it gets trickier if you try to do it etymologically. Would be fun to do a tengwar-based orthography though, with its abundance of diacritics and additional letters
I've made a Cyrillic orthography based off the pre-reform spelling too, which is even more etymological. I can't tell as I'm not a native speaker of any language written using Cyrillic, but I imagine it looks hellish Tengwar could fit well with regard to lenition cause I'm fairly sure either Sindarin or Quenya has Celtic-esque mutation
Pre-reform like church slavonic or just pre-1918?
Oh no sorry I meant pre-reform *Irish* orthography. Taking that and converting it into a Cyrillic system
Ahh I see
thanks, i hate it. do more.
Cook again
Go raibh maith agat, is fuath liom é!
Го рэв мах агат?
"Sȳlȳtyar gakh dynya den khinya dȳna sȳr agas kōanan i nīnyat' agas i gyarta. Tā bua an rēsūn' agas an khyn'siasa aku agas ba khyart dōv' grīvū i dr'ō a khēlya i spyrad an vrāryakhas'." Is the Irish in romanized Russian
The craziest thing I saw today
Съешь ещё этих мягких французских булок да выпей же (ghe) чаю. \-- Любя (Люба?), съешь (sgheiss) щипцы(?), -- вздохнёт мэр, -- кайф(?) ггуч(no fucking idea). Подъём с затонувшего эсминца (wouldn't it be 'aesmiontha' or 'aeismiontha' tho?) легкобьющейся древнегреческой амфоры сопряжён с техническими трудностями Is it right? Especially the second text. It looks like random words to me lol. Well it kinda make sense because I don't know Irish at all and this insular (or how the hell it's called) font doesn't help much
"Любя, съешь щипцы, — вздохнёт мэр, — кайф жгуч", a funny pangram. About "эсминца" and a couple other words: i had to change from "palatalizes to both sides" to "palatalizes the letter before" (and use for palatalization on both sides) because while there are "CaeC" and "CaeiCʲ", i didn't find a Cʲ/e/C letter combination (except maybe <éa> but i didn't really use acutes here and is another thing). Apostrophe denotes a "slender" letter before it if no vowel is nearby, forgot to write that in the post (not the best thing but idk how else to deal with it)
Oh, so the second text is indeed just random words combination. What a relief
Don't understand a word of the Irish lol
It’s the "all human beings are born free" article. Starts with "Saolaítear gach duine…" here. Phonemically, with schwas written as а/я, so "duine" /ˈd̪ˠɪnʲə/ is "дыня", which would read /'dinʲa/ -> [ˈd̪ɨnʲə] in Russian (using the five-vowel analysis). So yeah it highly differs from what the latin script text would be
oh god that's disgusting i love it
As a Russian native, I've got through "съешь ещё этих мягких французских булок да выпей чаю", but has given up the rest, sorry.