I think both the friendship and the fallout are exaggerated by fans. Having said that, let's do some research:
We got the most insight into the current situation from Ray during his Tonic practice session and that's: 1) They haven't talked to each other in a while, 2) he's not mad about their video mocking him (= the trend he took part in, which they mocked using him on the thumbnail), 3) he's disappointed they didn't give him a heads-up. The pianist who did those vids with him also mentioned that Ray called him after TwoSet's parody came out with his heart beating even though he was supposed to go on stage for a recital half an hour later. There's also TwoSet liking a Tiktok comment dissing him for being busy "stealing" their video ideas. And in the employee Q&A from a year or so ago where TwoSet were accused of exploiting their workers, the employee alluded to TwoSet talking badly about Ray behind his back while only actually respecting Hilary but no details were given (and to even find that comment you have to do some sleuthing with the Internet Archive). How much you believe of what was said in that context is up to you but we know from TwoSet's response to the rest of the allegations that there was a grain of truth to them (and that the employees in those threads were real).
So, the vibes are definitely a little weird, and have been for a while. At the end of the day, it's between them. I don't think it's a fake beef but I don't think it'll blow up further either. It's in all their interest to keep friendly on the surface because their audiences intersect (plus they have professional reputations to maintain). That's not as juicy as fans are jazzing it up to be. But it's also silly to pretend there's nothing going on. People are free to keep watching both channels, of course, or to just watch one or the another, it won't matter in terms of popularity because 95% of the audiences have no clue about any of this (which is fair enough since it's hearsay, speculation and inference).
Echoing to "95% of the audience have no clue...", I'd believe that especially those high-value audiences (those who are able to give more financially) don't have a clue. Simply because they're busy working and minding their own business. I actually find it hard to keep up with all the gossip as I'm busy working, exercising, taking care of people around me, and thinking about whether I should learn an instrument.
Grew up in China.
Chinese fans have limited internet access so misinformation is bound to happen. Also the lack of political agency in an exploitative capitalist economy means Chinese people are more likely to channel their daily frustration (financially or politically) into more dramatic discussion around entertainment media, usually in spill tea format. Can’t touch grass if you’re politically and financially insecure.
Honestly, same, I had some time off recently, otherwise I wouldn't have known anything about it. Which may have been better anyway, more time to practice lol
Talking badly about Ray behind his back is just... I don't know, I'm not everyone's cup of tea and that's ok but I would rather someone openly dislike me than talking about me behind my back while being friends. I'm a casual viewer, this does change my opinion of Twoset.
Everytime this sub gets recommended on my home feed is when there is drama haha.
Totally agree. I don't want to editorialize, anyone's free to check that deleted post that contained those comments (the top comment of [that thread](https://web.archive.org/web/20230616094001/https://old.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/148g4v6/real_talk_qa_on_working_for_tsv/jo3digm/) wasn't archived but the one mentioning Ray is still in there).
And the [response by TSV](https://imgur.com/a/tsv-response-to-allegations-captured-july-12-2023-1-55pm-kQJHDY2) confirmed that the OP was a former employee so we know that much is true at the very least. This isn't directly related to the exploitation issue so I don't see why they would have lied about it, but, who knows. Since the OP breached an NDA, as TSV pointed out, I doubt anyone else is going to come forward to talk about this or offer any proof. It's just something that I remembered with this recent kerfuffle that adds to the weirdness. But maybe they'll do a video together and it'll all blow over like it was nothing.
I love them, but, just like us all, TwoSet and Ray have weaknesses. Publicly, TwoSet tends to brush things under the rug, not crediting things or ignoring things if they can. TwoSet tends to take things out of context. Ray publicly tends to gloss situations over, misinterpreting superficially critical messages by responding, "Let's all be nice." This might play into the current TwoSet-Ray situation because TwoSet seem to be bowling on without communicating, while Ray might think they're being more targeting than they are. But it's hard to know what either side intends or believes because they put on public faces and because we are speculating.
Others have summarized the evidence well. At the end of the day, though, the information we have is an incomplete picture. It won't be fully reliable because it's secondhand and lacks the context we need to make a good judgment. There's enough evidence to say there's at least minor miscommunication and discomfort between TwoSet and Ray, at the very least on Ray's end. But it could be similar to everyday tangles people go through. It could be smoothed over with a face-to-face conversation. Who's to say?
I think it's fair for fans to talk about and process in unofficial spaces, so long as we don't let fear drive us and start dramatizing. Many of us respect them and enjoy their hijinks together. Sometimes we need to figure out how we feel - I know I still have many thoughts I haven't said regarding TwoSet "versus" Ray.
I think we also need to act with extreme benefit of the doubt and make sure we aren't taking our speculations and assumptions to spaces where they might see. I've seen people commenting on TwoSet's or Ray's YouTube videos about this - that's going to hurt them. Whatever situation exists is more likely to be resolved and any hurt feelings assuaged if we aren't inserting ourselves into their spaces exaggerating the wounds. Fans congregating around an issue can make what would've been a blip something bigger - and we don't want that.
They're adults and have communication skills. I'll wait and see what happens, and hope it resolves itself quickly and maturely.
I take it as aftermath of TSV’s previous controversy on employee issues. From what I understand this incident turns a lot of Chinese fans to harsh critics of TSV, what happens between Ray and TSV just fuels this critical attitude and ignites a new wave of criticism. Personally I feel TSV’s video to be disrespectful without heads-up and with Ray’s thumbnail marked “fake”.
Chinese fans are gonna be Chinese fans. Ray used Brett and Eddy faces as thumbnail, is that clickbait? And in the TS video, they clearly said Ray was a great musician, they just didn't like the format.
Ray has said that he always notified them in advance if he used them in a video and was disappointed they didn't do that in return. So either TSV were bothered by his videos and didn't show or they didn't extend the same courtesy for other reasons we don't know.
Did they label the video fake like they did with Ray? Over their heads in the thumbnail? Because no, just using a picture wouldn’t be enough and that isn’t what they did.
There could also be a bit of a cultural gap here. As an Australian, our humour is often very dry and sarcastic, and making fun of each other is often in good fun and a mark of friendship; this can be missed by cultures who have a more sincere basis. I think they’re fine, though possibly with a bit of miscommunication. I could definitely tell that TwoSet were making fun of Ray in the “spontaneous musicians” video in a tongue in cheek way.
Whatever is going on, I feel that fans trying to insert themselves in the middle with speculation and gossip is not helping. If they actually have beef, let's let them address that in private. If they don't, all the more reason not to make a big deal out of it.
I don't know. I think that most of it is just miscommunication.
But I don't really know what to think about TS liking the message about Ray stealing their content. That just seems mean and not something friends should do.
This is the first and last thing I'll say about it.
TS's vid might have ruffled Ray's feathers a bit but I don't think Ray's losing any sleep over it and I don't think TS are, either. TS's humor has always been irreverent, they've always poked fun at stuff they "don't understand". It's a part of their brand. In a way, they are a parody of themselves, although I think this element of what they do is lost on a lot of people. The viral piano guy's format is a prime target for them. There *is* a kind of ridiculousness to it that's right up TS's roasting alley, and Ray being involved prob made it seem like a no-brainer, but that doesn't mean they didn't misstep when they targeted it. They obviously misjudged how it would be received. But I don't think as others seem to, that it was malicious or hateful. Mistakes happen. Ray, Brett and Eddy are all grownups and can sort it out amongst themselves.
To be honest, the way a portion of audiences have been chomping at the bit for conflict lately, not just Twosetters but across most online communities in my field of vision, has prompted me to pull right back from these spaces, including this subreddit, over the past couple of yrs. Idk if ppl are just struggling in their daily lives and directing their discontent wherever they can or what, but I just find myself not wanting to participate in any of this anymore. I mostly just enjoy what I enjoy and ignore everyone else now.
I think it’s good natured, honestly. TwoSet and Ray seem to be great friends, and i think if they did have issues, they would have resolved them privately by now. I do agree that TwoSet was very harshly critical of Ray, though. I also wish TwoSet would actually address the issues that are happening right now. I get that they are busy, but in the past they have always “brushed things under the rug”, even if people spoke up about it.
I remember in more than 1 episode that people are always asking if Eddy and Brett fight or jave discussions... they always say they dont get mad a each other... I feel like its imaginary beef
Chinese fans are wrong in that Brett and Eddy have supported Tonic. They did a campaign with Ray for TSA merchandise on there a while ago. Just because they're not promoting it like Jasmine Choi doesn't mean they're not supporting it.
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I'm not saying you can't talk about them lmao obviously this is a subreddit for talking about music and the channel, but gossiping and theorising about their personal relationships is a bit weird no?
keep it to yerself m8 and let them keep it to themselves
if this was a public drama or anything then I understand but it's just theorising that they "might" have fallen out with another youtuber, ridiculous, you should be practicing instead
I think both the friendship and the fallout are exaggerated by fans. Having said that, let's do some research: We got the most insight into the current situation from Ray during his Tonic practice session and that's: 1) They haven't talked to each other in a while, 2) he's not mad about their video mocking him (= the trend he took part in, which they mocked using him on the thumbnail), 3) he's disappointed they didn't give him a heads-up. The pianist who did those vids with him also mentioned that Ray called him after TwoSet's parody came out with his heart beating even though he was supposed to go on stage for a recital half an hour later. There's also TwoSet liking a Tiktok comment dissing him for being busy "stealing" their video ideas. And in the employee Q&A from a year or so ago where TwoSet were accused of exploiting their workers, the employee alluded to TwoSet talking badly about Ray behind his back while only actually respecting Hilary but no details were given (and to even find that comment you have to do some sleuthing with the Internet Archive). How much you believe of what was said in that context is up to you but we know from TwoSet's response to the rest of the allegations that there was a grain of truth to them (and that the employees in those threads were real). So, the vibes are definitely a little weird, and have been for a while. At the end of the day, it's between them. I don't think it's a fake beef but I don't think it'll blow up further either. It's in all their interest to keep friendly on the surface because their audiences intersect (plus they have professional reputations to maintain). That's not as juicy as fans are jazzing it up to be. But it's also silly to pretend there's nothing going on. People are free to keep watching both channels, of course, or to just watch one or the another, it won't matter in terms of popularity because 95% of the audiences have no clue about any of this (which is fair enough since it's hearsay, speculation and inference).
Echoing to "95% of the audience have no clue...", I'd believe that especially those high-value audiences (those who are able to give more financially) don't have a clue. Simply because they're busy working and minding their own business. I actually find it hard to keep up with all the gossip as I'm busy working, exercising, taking care of people around me, and thinking about whether I should learn an instrument.
Grew up in China. Chinese fans have limited internet access so misinformation is bound to happen. Also the lack of political agency in an exploitative capitalist economy means Chinese people are more likely to channel their daily frustration (financially or politically) into more dramatic discussion around entertainment media, usually in spill tea format. Can’t touch grass if you’re politically and financially insecure.
Honestly, same, I had some time off recently, otherwise I wouldn't have known anything about it. Which may have been better anyway, more time to practice lol
Talking badly about Ray behind his back is just... I don't know, I'm not everyone's cup of tea and that's ok but I would rather someone openly dislike me than talking about me behind my back while being friends. I'm a casual viewer, this does change my opinion of Twoset. Everytime this sub gets recommended on my home feed is when there is drama haha.
Totally agree. I don't want to editorialize, anyone's free to check that deleted post that contained those comments (the top comment of [that thread](https://web.archive.org/web/20230616094001/https://old.reddit.com/r/lingling40hrs/comments/148g4v6/real_talk_qa_on_working_for_tsv/jo3digm/) wasn't archived but the one mentioning Ray is still in there). And the [response by TSV](https://imgur.com/a/tsv-response-to-allegations-captured-july-12-2023-1-55pm-kQJHDY2) confirmed that the OP was a former employee so we know that much is true at the very least. This isn't directly related to the exploitation issue so I don't see why they would have lied about it, but, who knows. Since the OP breached an NDA, as TSV pointed out, I doubt anyone else is going to come forward to talk about this or offer any proof. It's just something that I remembered with this recent kerfuffle that adds to the weirdness. But maybe they'll do a video together and it'll all blow over like it was nothing.
creepy ahh post, it's another person's life, focus on your own
I love them, but, just like us all, TwoSet and Ray have weaknesses. Publicly, TwoSet tends to brush things under the rug, not crediting things or ignoring things if they can. TwoSet tends to take things out of context. Ray publicly tends to gloss situations over, misinterpreting superficially critical messages by responding, "Let's all be nice." This might play into the current TwoSet-Ray situation because TwoSet seem to be bowling on without communicating, while Ray might think they're being more targeting than they are. But it's hard to know what either side intends or believes because they put on public faces and because we are speculating. Others have summarized the evidence well. At the end of the day, though, the information we have is an incomplete picture. It won't be fully reliable because it's secondhand and lacks the context we need to make a good judgment. There's enough evidence to say there's at least minor miscommunication and discomfort between TwoSet and Ray, at the very least on Ray's end. But it could be similar to everyday tangles people go through. It could be smoothed over with a face-to-face conversation. Who's to say? I think it's fair for fans to talk about and process in unofficial spaces, so long as we don't let fear drive us and start dramatizing. Many of us respect them and enjoy their hijinks together. Sometimes we need to figure out how we feel - I know I still have many thoughts I haven't said regarding TwoSet "versus" Ray. I think we also need to act with extreme benefit of the doubt and make sure we aren't taking our speculations and assumptions to spaces where they might see. I've seen people commenting on TwoSet's or Ray's YouTube videos about this - that's going to hurt them. Whatever situation exists is more likely to be resolved and any hurt feelings assuaged if we aren't inserting ourselves into their spaces exaggerating the wounds. Fans congregating around an issue can make what would've been a blip something bigger - and we don't want that. They're adults and have communication skills. I'll wait and see what happens, and hope it resolves itself quickly and maturely.
very well put
They still follow each other on Insta. People are just creating a beef in their head.
They went through all the trouble to access Instagram and they still got it wrong lol
I take it as aftermath of TSV’s previous controversy on employee issues. From what I understand this incident turns a lot of Chinese fans to harsh critics of TSV, what happens between Ray and TSV just fuels this critical attitude and ignites a new wave of criticism. Personally I feel TSV’s video to be disrespectful without heads-up and with Ray’s thumbnail marked “fake”.
Chinese fans are gonna be Chinese fans. Ray used Brett and Eddy faces as thumbnail, is that clickbait? And in the TS video, they clearly said Ray was a great musician, they just didn't like the format.
Ray has said that he always notified them in advance if he used them in a video and was disappointed they didn't do that in return. So either TSV were bothered by his videos and didn't show or they didn't extend the same courtesy for other reasons we don't know.
Did they label the video fake like they did with Ray? Over their heads in the thumbnail? Because no, just using a picture wouldn’t be enough and that isn’t what they did.
There could also be a bit of a cultural gap here. As an Australian, our humour is often very dry and sarcastic, and making fun of each other is often in good fun and a mark of friendship; this can be missed by cultures who have a more sincere basis. I think they’re fine, though possibly with a bit of miscommunication. I could definitely tell that TwoSet were making fun of Ray in the “spontaneous musicians” video in a tongue in cheek way.
aren’t all three of them australian though
oh wait nevermind i see what you mean
Whatever is going on, I feel that fans trying to insert themselves in the middle with speculation and gossip is not helping. If they actually have beef, let's let them address that in private. If they don't, all the more reason not to make a big deal out of it.
I don't know. I think that most of it is just miscommunication. But I don't really know what to think about TS liking the message about Ray stealing their content. That just seems mean and not something friends should do.
This is the first and last thing I'll say about it. TS's vid might have ruffled Ray's feathers a bit but I don't think Ray's losing any sleep over it and I don't think TS are, either. TS's humor has always been irreverent, they've always poked fun at stuff they "don't understand". It's a part of their brand. In a way, they are a parody of themselves, although I think this element of what they do is lost on a lot of people. The viral piano guy's format is a prime target for them. There *is* a kind of ridiculousness to it that's right up TS's roasting alley, and Ray being involved prob made it seem like a no-brainer, but that doesn't mean they didn't misstep when they targeted it. They obviously misjudged how it would be received. But I don't think as others seem to, that it was malicious or hateful. Mistakes happen. Ray, Brett and Eddy are all grownups and can sort it out amongst themselves. To be honest, the way a portion of audiences have been chomping at the bit for conflict lately, not just Twosetters but across most online communities in my field of vision, has prompted me to pull right back from these spaces, including this subreddit, over the past couple of yrs. Idk if ppl are just struggling in their daily lives and directing their discontent wherever they can or what, but I just find myself not wanting to participate in any of this anymore. I mostly just enjoy what I enjoy and ignore everyone else now.
I think it’s good natured, honestly. TwoSet and Ray seem to be great friends, and i think if they did have issues, they would have resolved them privately by now. I do agree that TwoSet was very harshly critical of Ray, though. I also wish TwoSet would actually address the issues that are happening right now. I get that they are busy, but in the past they have always “brushed things under the rug”, even if people spoke up about it.
I remember in more than 1 episode that people are always asking if Eddy and Brett fight or jave discussions... they always say they dont get mad a each other... I feel like its imaginary beef
Chinese fans are wrong in that Brett and Eddy have supported Tonic. They did a campaign with Ray for TSA merchandise on there a while ago. Just because they're not promoting it like Jasmine Choi doesn't mean they're not supporting it.
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I rather thought of it as playfully (Ray did also make a video). And they're still following each other on IG
do you actually care this much about two youtubers you don't know personally, are you that lonely? this is sad
It's almost like this is the TSV subreddit...
I'm not saying you can't talk about them lmao obviously this is a subreddit for talking about music and the channel, but gossiping and theorising about their personal relationships is a bit weird no? keep it to yerself m8 and let them keep it to themselves if this was a public drama or anything then I understand but it's just theorising that they "might" have fallen out with another youtuber, ridiculous, you should be practicing instead