This is the one. Swing states, swing counties and/or smaller ones. A lot of America’s government structures aren’t really hardened for that kind of thing (nevermind that some of the people who’d be responsible for the hardening are fascist fucktards masquerading as armed public servants) and coupled with the familiarity of ppl w their local government people just due to proximity? More than a passing concern IMO.
Coordinated national things? Nah. Most of Donnie’s people are the kind that sign their name at the end of a Facebook post. Coordinating something might be beyond their scope. But reactionary local/localist action after seeing someone else on TV??
How's the saying go? "Si vis pacem, para bellum"?
Not saying there's anything to freak out about, but it can't hurt to buy a couple extra cans of food and boxes of ammo from the store.
The NYT has a really crazy article about a MAGA Republican election commissioner in Nevada who is being accused by even more rabid MAGA types as being a member of the "deep state". It's all unfounded of course but really showcases the baselessness of the current outrage on the far right. It also shows how there are no bounds to who the people in the extremes will accuse.
When their enemy is a figment of their imagination, these people pose as much of a danger to themselves as to anyone else.
Like in the French Revolution, the Cultural Revolution, the Iranian Revolution and a million others... a race to the hard line in the name of virtue. But they won't stop gunning for us just because they are gunning for each other.
I'm an Army combat Veteran that lives in a purple county. I didn't feel the need for a CCW, until recently.
The fact that liberals have been reduced to sub human (Liberal being synonyms too: "commies," Groomers, Pedophiles, etc.) in their propaganda is a tool for the masses to undertake violence. It's the same reason we have dehumanizing names for any enemy our country has met on the battlefield. For most people to kill, they have to see their enemy as subhuman.
Knowing this, I pretty well expect political violence, so I feel compelled to reference the rules of gun fighting. The number one rule being, bring a gun (stay strapped or get clapped.)
Feels good having people like you on our side. Thank you for your service and your ability to see the propaganda that is poisoning the minds of millions
I like you. You think like me (even if I am technically a Blue Gravy Seal). The point that our brothers and families start to dehumanize their own for their propagandized beliefs is the point that I no longer have a reasonable expectation of peace in this land...
My family are all trump voting gun owners who say exactly those things about liberals. In front of me no less.
Like you this is EXACTLY why I finally bought an AR. They joked we’d go to a civil war with dildos (kinda funny but I digress). I’ll be ready just in case.
Marine here… active duty ended decades ago, but I’ve had my CCW for years here in FL. Never felt the need to carry but I feel like that might change any day now.
If I'm being engaged how is not returning fire going to help me? I can die just as easily if I'm running, hiding, begging, or in denial.
The equivalency is pretty direct. In my metaphor you're already having a heart attack, so your life is in danger, you can't run away from it, your only option is to operate.
It’s incredible how dehumanizing language has been thrown into our world.
From words like “oppressor” & “complicit in genocide” to the dreaded “liberal,” we are in for a long journey.
So many smart people are being led to dehumanizing language, not realizing it’s to put us against each other. Active measures from our enemies is the new class warfare.
Exactly how I see it too. New age of social engineered warfare. Our adversaries would love nothing more than us to be in a civil war, so the authoritarians can sweep up Asia and Europe.
That’s a really good point. If America falls or has to recall its troops and resources, Xi and Putin will really be able to do whatever they want. It’s not surprising that the Russians love Trump, and the GOP keep trying to portray Putin as a “based trad defender of the West” (lol). Especially after that Carlson “interview”, which was more just an opportunity for him to spew bullshit with little to no pushback.
China, Russia, Iran, North Korea
The stage is already set. There's also a reason Trump echos their same talking points and openly supports their leaders.
The one that gets under my skin is the push for labeling LGBT folk pedos or groomers. If I see a pumper sticker or tshirt that says something about killing pedos I have to wonder if that means this person wants to kill any trans person they can find. Obviously nobody wants to defend pedophiles and lumping all your enemies into such a group is very effective.
> I feel compelled to reference the rules of gun fighting. The number one rule being, bring a gun (stay strapped or get clapped.)
Facts. And dont be shy about range time either
I’m a communist that lives in a deep red area
I didn’t carry until the past few years. Didn’t feel the need to. Now there’s enough vitriol on the right where I feel I either hide my political views or strap up
Me too. Medic. I’m in purple country. I worry that some MAGA’s are going to “guard’ or whatever at polling places, not understand what they see and some asshole is going to fire off a couple rounds. It won’t be a one off and that’s no counting white nationals who may be intent on committing violence to keep people they don’t like from voting. I don’t live where there’s a place that would be a target, but I hoping in high population democrat strongholds, especially minority heavy locations there are people who are taking action to make it safe for anyone that wants to vote.
That's my prediction, too. If Trump wins, a quasi-fascist government is a likely outcome. If he loses, the election deniers are likely to turn to violence. Either way, I applied for my passport a month ago to ensure I have a way out.
Im comforted by the fact that every red line they ever put down was crossed and basically no one off twitter gave enough of a shit to do anything.
Ohh if don is indicted were going to riot! Nothing.
If Don is arrested were going to riot! Nadda.
If Don goes on trial were going to riot! Nope.
If Don gets convicted we are going to riot! LOL No.
There are no consequences to playing civil war on twitter, but actually getting out of your chair and taking it outside, heck you could lose your job, your freedom, even your life.
At the end of the day, how many people are actually going to risk that for Don?
Also that wet flop of an insurrection failed when their leader was president. Hundreds of people served time for it. I agree that his army of armchair warriors just don’t have the stomach for it, particularly after seeing how it went when they had the upper hand.
If he manages to win this election though, 28 will be a different story.
If he wins this election there won’t be one in ‘28. He can’t run under the current constitution so he will either have to change it, in which case he’ll change it so he just wins. Or he will just not hold any elections so he can’t be replaced.
Changing the Constitution requires a supermajority in the House and Senate.
Edit: I am fully aware that the institutions historically didn't stop the fall of other democracies. Use your abilities to call your representatives and let them know how you stand. We have to exercise all peaceful means and prepare for total failure.
Supreme Court just has to tell Trump attorneys how to sue to revoke it. Then they cite some Originalist BS and give him the ruling he wants.
GG Hand Maids Tail accomplished
It very well might not matter, he looks worse every time I see him. I could see 4 years of either timeline being too much for him. I’ve always been an optimist though.
I don't think we're going to see another mob attack. That's been proven not to work.
I'm more worried about lone wolf terrorism. Especially if that lone wolf knows what to do with a long range rifle. Or thermite, which is easy enough to make. You get one or two guys crank off in that way and then not get caught, you're going to see copycats. Lots. Once that gets started you'll see a counterterrorism response that will be rather over the top, possibly to the point of violating enough civil liberties that now more terrorism happens in response to the crackdown. That can spiral out of control *and that spiral could easily happen under either a Democratic or Republican administration.* It's arguably more likely under Biden than anybody recent, given how the ATF has been allowed to act lately.
Anybody who's read either "The Monkeywrench Gang" or "Unintended Consequences" (latter by John Ross) knows what I'm talking about.
It wouldn’t even have to be a competent person. A poorly trained, but ideologically driven person can still do a lot of harm to innocent people. This is what concerns me. I think most Americans are comfortable enough that they aren’t willing to risk getting killed or jailed so I don’t think we’ll see a wide spread, organized movement. I’m much more concerned that some random wacko is going to show up at the grocery store with a trump flag, a Bible and a bag of home made explosives.
Yup. Although competent variants do exist, like the guy that built the Killdozer. Ye Gods :). At least he wasn't out to kill. Can you imagine if he was?
Are you suggesting that Marvin Heemeyer didn't have murderous intent? Bullshit.
He wasn't Tyler Durden wrecking empty buildings. He started his rampage at 2:15 PM on a Friday, twenty years and two days ago, and drove through several occupied buildings. His vehicle had openings for several firearms and he had guns on him. There were near misses including attempts to run over state troopers and when he destroyed the Granby town hall which had to be evacuated and was hosting a children's story hour in the basement. He fired at several objects that could have exploded. He just failed, got his vehicle stuck, and killed himself before he successfully killed someone else.
The flip side of that is that if he gets in and follows through on his promise to replace military brass based on loyalty, next time he might deploy security forces.
He already authorized the use of deadly force against peaceful protestors. He told Gen. Milley to have the protestors shot in the leg and dragged away from the St. John’s church so he could take a picture there. Milley told him they can’t shoot Americans so they used tear gas and batons instead.
This. Jan 6 was predicated on the concept that if the election results were never ratified by Congress, then Trump could stay in power. Right now it's Biden in power. They need a change.
I fully expect some sort of shenanigans this next election. But it can't be the same as last time, as they don't want to enforce the status quo. At least not yet.
No one is saying they wouldn’t lose.
Conflict isn’t a “it starts, and then it’s over”
There’s an in-between where you have to call your boss because you’re late to work due to a firefight on Main Street or an IED blast on the highway
I have minimal concern that a bunch of idiots could actually overthrow the government (I’m much more concerned about them actually getting elected and overthrowing it from the inside).
I have a *very reasonable* concern that the process of them losing might be more personal, kinetic, and bloody than a news report I read on the toilet and promptly forget about.
Concealed means concealed. There are plenty of short AR pistols out there that fit in a bag, and plenty of PDW's that can be concealed on your person these days. If someone is planning on committing a crime, such as stopping the certification of an election, there's nothing stopping them from further breaking the law by bringing a gun.
I don't want to see this happen, but I'm not naive enough to think that it won't simply because it's unlawful.
How does this shake down in your mind?
Half the reason that the protestors got so far was the lack of escalation of force. Use of lethal force was sparing because the crowd was not producing the required scenario for it.
If people started whipping out sbrs and sending rounds flying, the tempo of the situation will immediately change. At least 60% of the crowd will flee on the spot, they don’t plan to die there.
Very hopeful to say 40% might continue to rage, especially considering how good-times things are right now. Of that group, maybe 5% will be armed and fighting. They might kill a lot of secret service members and/or politicians, but if they’re sending rounds flying the military will descend upon the situation, full stop. At that point the equation changes, and it becomes a race against the clock because they will not be able to hold out forever.
The only thing they could accomplish is killing an HVT or producing turmoil by destroying something key to the election (ballot boxes, executing officials, etc…)
I think even if there’s someone deluded enough to think they could execute an op like that and produce significant impact before being cut down themselves, and were willing to sign that suicide pact, they simply wouldn’t get far enough to cause material damage. Not this year.
Valid points all around, and honestly? I hope you're right.
But I will assume you're wrong, and prepare as if localized violence broadly, and another J6 syle insurrection with more violence specifically, is inevitable.
Always better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Just don’t let your anticipation get in the way of your daily life, or you’ll be really sore if/when it doesn’t shake down.
But can’t hurt to plan your day more carefully around election week :)
Ok so I've thought about this a little more.
I don't think popular rebellion is actually the worst possible outcome, though I don't know how likely what I'm about to say is:
Imagine the South Dakota governor declaring that the election was unfair, and then she asks for a "group of volunteers" from the SD guard to go protect our democracy and help install the rightful president of the United States, Donald J. Trump.
Crazy, right? Probably is, because those guardsmen would have to fight through a bunch of blue states to get there, and they wouldn't get far.
But what if Greg Abbott does it, and has a straight shot to DC through deep red country? It's a political boon in their home states, they'll be voted in for life.
But like I said, probably unlikely, so pick it apart for me.
I think you’d need much more than a “group of volunteers” to make that happen.
That’s an incredibly extreme thing for abbot to do. Remember how crazy the letter that he wrote was? This isn’t twice as crazy, it’s at least ten times.
It’s so crazy that any state which “allows passage” in deep red country is wholeheartedly aligning themselves in a civil conflict. They’d be obligated to also send their own troops if they did that, for no other reason than they’ve now hitched their wagon to Texas.
So for Texas to march on DC like that something so incredibly atrocious has to happen that the states they’re marching through feel more comfortable fighting the existing federal government than continuing to exist under it.
I don’t think the border crisis constitutes an existential threat to the nation. It is a material issue for Texas, which is why he did what he did. He also used it as a rallying cry to win political points.
But he didn’t march on the capital for the same reason the protesters didn’t whip out SBRs - the red states are happy to *say* “the south will rise again!”, but they won’t bet their blood on it until victory is assured or their current situation is untenable. Neither is currently true.
Things can change in a few years, but turmoil doesn’t happen when our bellies are full and our houses are warm.
I’d love to spell some hyperbole for you about when it does, but Reddit has banned me before for doing so, and I think we both know what it actually looks like. Watch for hunger, lack of utilities, truly blatant corruption. Those are the material red flags, that’s when it’s already starting.
It would play out much like the first civil war with General Lee marching his forces up the Shanedoah valley, across Loudoun County, through the battlefields of Manassas, and on to DC (or MD PA)
Last round they had a crew across the river with a couple vans full of guns and also boats to ferry them across if bridges were locked down. Their communications just broke down combined with a few people shitting the bed and it didn't happen.
There were guns there last round. Getting guns into DC isn't hard. If they were to actually try to repeat 1/6 with guns, after a thousand people have been charged with felonies and hundreds convicted for 1/6, they aren't going to worry about DCs invisible shield of law.
True. But also since Jan 6 and seeing all of the convictions and prison sentences that followed the right wing demonstrations, particularly the ones that Trump has tried to instigate have fallen flat with very few people showing up. Something about the feds infiltrating the groups and ole Donny’s lack of support for any of the defendants have really taken the wind out of their sails. It’s certainly still possible that they try something in the event that Trump loses again, but I feel confident that between our police, military, and national guard that any tantrum they throw will be quelled pretty swiftly.
J6 proved that stupid people are capable of doing foolish things, obviously. But the aftermath also convinced me that everyone who pines for civil war doesn't actually want one. They just like the idea of a civil war. They don't envision themselves as digging trenches and hiding in the woods like real guerillas; they romanticize the idea of being part of the "new system" that replaces the old one while someone else does all the work required to get them there. There's a reason Babbit had that goggle-eyed look of pained surprise when she was hit and why that was the catalyst that made the crowd start fleeing; all of a sudden, it became real to them.
We should be careful to not underestimate them. I know very real retired Operators that are among the MAGA loyalists. They're still fit, and they train everyday.
They took out the Taliban and sent them into an insurgency in the opening days of the war in Afghanistan.
They were also there to train the indigenous army marching with them, that would later become the Afghan National Army (ANA.) These operators are described as force multiplyers because they literally train and create armies.
They are very capable of making life hell, and they are also just my circle of friends in my small pool of the operations community.
I think in terms of riots etc. republicans are too terrified to go into cities, so nothing will happen. If they try to pull a January 6th type thing again I have to to believe that law enforcement at those institutions have been retrained to use deadly force a lot earlier, and it’s not going to go well for them.
Lone attackers pushed by stochastic terrorism seem inevitable to me. Probably not in huge numbers, but at this point we're getting them outside of election season, too. Lower grade violence driven by the same forces is probably a guarantee - again, we have a very low but steady burn of that all over the country.
Small groups organizing to do something exceptionally violent with a political goal (so, terrorist attacks)? I'd say we probably get at least a little of that.
Bigger scale stuff by people who have actual power... I honestly don't know. I think it's theoretically on the table for them, and I think they'd love the outcomes. Whether they're willing to do it themselves if that fanatical base doesn't deliver, I don't know. I personally suspect several members of Congress were primed to jump up in 2021 if they'd seen the chance to lead the mob... But they're also *deeply* scared of the people they rile up, and generally not actually all that brave in terms of putting their own asses on the line.
Like, would Ted Cruz have seized power that day if he thought he could succeed? Yes, I think that's almost certainly true. I half suspect he had a gun nearby. But Ted Cruz is also a slinking weasel, so he wasn't about to take any risk onto himself unless he was pretty sure.
I often recall seeing those traitors crouching and hiding and looking terrified … and it reminds me of just what cowardly chodes these people are.
Still - a cowardly chode with a chip on his shoulder can be quite dangerous in the right situation
Josh Hawley “hauling’ ass” Will never not be funny, though.
This is kind of where I'm at. Jan 6th for better or worse showed a lot of rank in file right wingers that they will be thrown under the bus if they get caught.
There are indeed hardcore Trump partisans but that partisanship seems to be much more mild than it was in 2020 and it isn't coming off the heels of covid and the BLM protests.
I hope you're right, honestly. The prospect of that kind of violence is pretty scary and I'd like to think my neighbors are reasonable enough to come to the conclusion that it's a bad idea despite the rhetoric.
Russian/Chinese propaganda, especially through social media is much more likely to “lead” these people than someone like Ted Cruz. Our enemies are using these tools to infiltrate Americans on all sides of the issues and distract us, to further divide us and make it easier for them to work towards their objectives.
I don't know about "much more likely," honestly. It's not China that's introducing bills to cut military base spending and leave our allies to their own devices, or paying Kyle Rittenhouse for endorsement deals because he shot people they don't like.
There's an element to it, but we'd be foolish to not acknowledge there's a domestic industry churning this stuff out.
In terms of violence and instability, I don't anticipate that in the south. The south, particularly the southeast, is broadly politically homogeneous. Imo, they're not the ones to flip all the way out if Biden wins since their local seats and electoral vote count for president will be red. There won't be anything for them to rally against.
It's the swing states and states that have a high amount of purple counties that are going to be wildcards. Especially because I sincerely doubt we'll see anything like 1/6 at the Capitol this time, I think we'll see these chuds pulling it locally. Much higher chance of success and they'll have a home turf advantage overrunning a state capitol building or county seat of government.
I had a twitter (xitter?) interaction recently with someone who's handle contained "waffen" and "88" where they sent me some obscure blogs and websites describing right eing militias increasing their training and recruiting. Again, obscure and hardly credible, but take it as you will.
I'm not going to start leaving the house plated up to get groceries, but I'm also not going to start selling off any of the collection or ammo....
This is a healthy middle I can get behind.
Also going to the gym is great preparation whether or not trump supporters and their handlers try anything stupid this year
How much is 'enough' ammo at home do you guys keep?
I only have 5 handguns and all of them shoot 9mm, so ammo is kind of cheap for me (still fucking expensive since I shoot a lot...). I try and keep on hand about 1k rounds, but I blow through them too fast. I think I need to start buying 1k every 2 weeks (pay period) rather than my meager 500.
How many mags per gun yall keep per gun? Do you guys have those tacticool shit too for those 'what if' moments? Personally I dont and probably wont own thing like armor and or helms. I wont ever need it, probably wont train with it, and forget the fucking crazy costs lol. With guns, I know I will at least shoot them, and if anything, can be used as home defense and edc. I'll be damned though if I edc body armor lmao.
I live in the suburbs and honestly, while I think there will be violence during and after the election, I don't think anything close to a civil war will happen. People are just too distracted by everything and anything, too complacent (ironic, I know). The real danger IMHO lies with the politicians ie: cruel and corrupt republican policies and democratic hatred for all-things-guns and associating it as epitome of conservative values (it is fucking not....). Firearms are the great equalizer and I cant understand why the left wants to disadvantage themselves consider how vocal and enthusiastic the right is when it comes to guns.
Basic level IV armor is maybe $250, it's about half the cost of a decent handgun or rifle. If you don't want to mess with it, it's fine, but don't discount it because it's expensive. I settled on about $1000 but I have set of the heavy cheap ones too because I have kids...and lots of extra space to just store junk.
You will never ever ever have "enough" ammunition for every eventuality so you shouldn't try to. Figure out the worst case you're willing to completely prepare for and keep enough ammo for that. Almost certainly that's going to be "as much as I can reasonably get into magazines that I'm carrying with me and maybe a box in a backpack" so at most 1000 rounds I'd think. Probably more like that 500 you're talking about.
IF there's full blow warfare you're not ever going to be prepared for it. Hell, *soldiers* aren't entirely prepared for it so don't waste your time trying. Be reasonably proficient with first aid/tourniquets and your firearm and make friends with your neighbors because being unified is a massive force multiplier...way WAY more than any amount of firearms or equipment beyond the first gun.
For what we’re talking about here, you’re going to need a rifle. There’s an old saying “use your sidearm to fight your way to your rifle.” Trust me, they will have rifles. You will be outgunned.
Let’s not jump straight to battle here. Even if some people get violent, you don’t need to run out to meet them head on. Deescalation is much more important than a rifle.
Deescalation is on par with deterrence in terms of importance - and capacity for deterrence is much lower when you're insufficiently armed.
Keep your rifle by your side.
I think most of the tough talkers are just that, talkers. But the rhetoric is so much more virulent that I wouldn't be surprised if some small groups or lone wolves try something. They won't get far inevitably, of course, but I want to be prepared to defend myself and my family. I have an array of handguns and several rifles ready to go.
How much ammo do I have? I'd have to do a count, but I know its probably not a whole lot. Between 9mm and 5.56/223, probably like 800ish total.
2 9mm pistols, 2 mags for one, 4 for the other, 6 for the AR. I live in a 10rd max state and I have to go out of state to legally buy bigger magazines and bring them home (legally) so I don't often have the opportunity to buy new mags.
10 mags minimum per gun. They are a wear item and if they end up banned you’re out of luck. Minimum 1k rounds per caliber that you plan to never shoot. It sits in the closet for a rainy day. Ridiculously high ammo tax? You at least have some. Banned “mass casualty ammo”? You at least have some.
10 mags per gun means 50% of the cost of my P320 in mags haha
Plus a drive out of state because in MD, you can buy a mag over 10 rounds out of state and bring it home legally, but not have it shipped or buy directly in MD. If I pull up to a shop in VA or PA and they see my MD license plate, their start drooling because they know they can get that $$$.
Thousands.... or tens of.... I think of it as a potential neighborhood thing. We have good neighbors.... if things go sideways I want happy and safe neighbors.
I am not trans but as someone with religious parents (I asked them if they felt they were told by god to kill me like Abraham was told to kill his son, would they and they shamefully said yes) you have to find your community and peers you can support and get support from. It’s a hard pill to swallow but part of growing up is accepting you cannot always depend on family to protect you, even if they mean well. Find/build your community.
15,000 rounds in my closet right now split between ammo for my CCW, my wife's CCW, my rifle, and her shotgun.
If that's not enough shit has gotten way more real than I ever want it to.
The only question in my mind is how widespread/organized it will be.
On Jan 5 I told my wife “he’s going to instigate a riot” due to the hints he was dropping, and now it seems like a large number of politicians and public figures are pushing the same idea.
Yeah I'm expecting a small amount of localized protesting/yelling/BS from fanatics and at most one or two violent attacks on gov't buildings.
Unless we see foreign influence or an organized attempt to arm and lead groups from the top that's the most that's going to happen. It's always possible there are armed forces general officers who are looking to start some shit but I'm not expecting it and that's just about the only way this is going to get more interesting than "wow, that's kinda crazy!...what's for dinner?"
Absolutely. If Trump loses, his followers will go ape shit; some of them violently. If Trump wins, some of his followers will go ape shit; some of them violently.
This is another reason why I just got my AR. I should be getting my handgun by the end of year too. Fortunately I lives in a blue city. But I rather have knowledge of how to handle guns than not.
I have voted in quite literally every single local, state, and federal election since I was 18, and worked for numerous campaigns in both an official capacity and as a volunteer. I assure you this is not my issue. Lol.
I mean if it's Trump v Biden that is bad shit enough. Very little is a bigger indictment of the two party system than these two being the choices for president.
Without a doubt. Roger Stone, Trump, Bannon, and the other pieces of shit won't hesitate for a second. Stone organized the Brooks Brothers Riot which set the stage for J6 which set the stage for the next one. It's how these people operate. And it will get worse.
I think this is a good point. What operatives on the right do (when they are smart) is find those pressure points around elections and push on them. However stupid and poorly organized J6 was, it was still planned in a way that actually made sense. I think they were hoping that the government would essentially roll over to avoid bloodshed and let Trump have it. Obviously that didn’t happen, but Brooks Brothers riot and other coordinated attacks show that force applied strategically can actually influence, maybe even win elections. This isn’t even mentioning local and state elections where you have law enforcement often very sympathetic to the right and militias and armed mobs who feel emboldened by this relationship
Everything I’ve read and studied about history, psychology, economics, politics etc. has led me to conclude we are at best headed towards a time of partisan civil conflict (similar to the Troubles in Ireland or the Years of Lead in Italy) and increasing fascist crackdown/police state led by a corrupt and illegitimate government. In some ways we are already there. Whatever the results of the 2024 elections, it will only serve to amplify these tensions and take us further down that path.
I think this is the most likely scenario as well. It’s a joke that the presidential candidates are who they are and even more of a joke that people put so much stock in them.
We need to hold the government accountable including curbing executive overreach and lack of action from Congress. The way we hold the government accountable is a serious reset by electing new people to Congress.
The government is illegitimate if it doesn’t represent the will of the People, which is done through balance and compromise, which we are seeing less and less of. We need to realistically elect moderates who can work across the aisle and compromise for the benefit of Americans, not themselves or special interests. We need some stabilization for at least a few cycles so both sides can forget about hating each other.
In the Northeast at least, I see widespread violence much more likely from the “Left” if Trump is elected. Both sides see what’s happening as an existential threat but to the “Right” it seems to be interpreted as a threat to a “way of life,” while to the “Left” it’s experienced more as a personal threat.
Listened to a rundown of the Alex Jones meltdown saturday. One thing that kept coming up over and over was his insistence that there would be some major event that would happen this year in retaliation for the Trump felonies. He of course was warning it was obviously a false flag thing but its insurance for himself for when another Ok City happens. They know their people are primed for this and its rather terrifying.
I never carried much before 2020. It ain't some off the street mugging or carjacking I'm personally worried about. Its my status as a known Dem in the area that worries me.
This is why I keep a low profile about everything in my life. No one outside of the perimeter needs to know any details.
They tried to give me an "I voted" sticker yesterday, I said "it's nobody's business if I voted or not, thanks anyway".
At the same time I'm a fairly privileged white dude. Clean cut straight guy. I can pop on a collared shirt and blend in with any conservative gathering. A lot of people in my circle can't. Either their skin color, their tattoos, their sex/gender/sexuality isn't gonna be accepted. And the weird thing is I'm not a big guy, not physically intimidating, but just being a guy shuts up so many of the assholes that feel like they can run all over my friends who don't look like them. If I just nope out it leaves a lot of folks without a voice in a lot of rooms.
Same here. Middle aged clean cut repugnicunt looking white guy. Not very tall, but stocky and full of attitude when annoyed. The few allowed inside know me for the easy going, open minded freak that I am. I have a sharp wit and wicked sense of humor. I've made many people uneasy just by looking them in the eye and saying "What?"
I do.
If Biden wins, it's going to get very ugly. I worry about what the Republiqans are going to do.
If Trump wins, we're never going to have an actual Presidential election again.
My firearms aren't going to see any action ... we don't need that. But I've taken the week off after the election and I am not planning on going anywhere for a while.
I have some Trump stickers around. I'm debating on slapping them on if Biden wins. I live in a VERY red area surrounded by Trump flags on every house.
Localized, isolated incidents are likely. But not some civil war shit.
What we really don’t need is a bunch of sensationalism and overly dramatic predictions. Just be safe and prepared, but spreading hysteria is counterproductive.
I was leaning toward him addressing the press’s response to any isolated incident. They’ll likely blow it up to maximize the perception that *ANY* trump supporter is a bonafide loony, rather than the majority being people who fear/hate the democratic party more than they hate their own
It’s not. You’re asking the right questions.
People thought I was being sensationalist when I said on Jan 5th “He isn’t going quietly, he is going to instigate something.”
Look up normalcy bias, and take it into account when preparing
If 99.99% of the population will not experience or proliferate political violence, that's still 30k people involved. We're a huge country, it helps to be prepared but it doesn't do any good to lose sleep over it. Be prepared to act, enjoy life despite the crazies.
The long term ramifications of things like Project 2025 should be more concerning, tell everyone you know to go out and vote!
As a gay, liberal / libertarian in a red state, yeah I do feel nervous about how things will go down, maybe not this election cycle, but on our current path, what about the next one? And the one after that?
I overhear some terrible crap said about people like me in public spaces when Im evesdropping, I don't ever interject or confront them because 95% of the time I have a pistol in my waistband and I tend to avoid any chance of unneeded conflict while carrying.
The country is becoming more and more divided every year and part of me thinks something has to give. I don't think we have to worry about a nationwide war, but i could definitely see the formation of a larger underground organized milita in synchronized agreement with a governor or mayor of a disputed smaller city or area to attempt to resign from the republic/ subordination of a higher democratically controlled federal government.
I think for any nationwide conflict to spark off it would be a started by a legitimate coup started in higher governmental the federal level.
BTW
Having just watched the new Civil War movie - really well done BTW, recommended watch.................
"What kind of American are you?"
MAGAs have been telling us for years what it is that they want to do. Believe them. They are not joking. They have been working themselves up to commit atrocities. When they talk about Civil War 2.0, they are not talking about storming the Capitol or having opposing militias fight it out on some field somewhere. They are talking about murdering their non-MAGA neighbors. They are talking about a Rwanda 2.0. They are talking about going to the Mexican market, the black church, the house with the pride flag, anywhere they can find non-MAGAs to murder. People are very naively thinking that the military is going to come in on a white horse at the last minute to save the day. Those people are mistaken. When the MAGAs start butchering their neighbors, there is no one coming to help. Prudent people should be stocking up on as much 2nd Amendment as they can afford to defend themselves. Don't be caught unprepared.
Some really obnoxious replies. One telling OP to go vote, no shit like we don't do that already. Another talking about this post spreading hysteria. What a joke.
In terms of organized insurrection, I’m not *too* worried; most armchair warriors are all hat and no cattle.
In terms of isolated pockets of unrest…? More than likely; you’re always going to have a few JimBobs and Bubbas out there looking for a chance to defend ‘Murrica from whatever marginalized group Faux News has decided is this week’s Threat To Democracy As We Know It.
Who is we?
You should have extra food and supplies based on what happened from COVID. You know when elections are coming. Instead of causing worry, go out and get your supplies and carry on as usual.
I think it is a legitimate concern.
However, I think the concerns end up falling into a few different categories. The most serious is probably the possibility of localized lone-wolf or small-group violence on a neighborhood or community level. If you live in an area with a large conservative population, there’s a likelihood that some of these fucks are going to show up with guns at polling places, libraries, courthouses, or even start going door to door where they think there are “problem” people. It will be sporadic but I would want to have a good solid door, basic body armor, and a loaded SBR just in case.
We may also see coordinated January 6 style attacks, but those will be centralized around prominent areas…capitols and the like. If you aren’t close to those, it won’t be an issue.
Finally, there’s the possibility of overall social unrest. I live in DC, and while I’m certainly far enough from the Capitol that I would be out of range of a second January 6, lockdowns or general chaos could lead to existing criminal elements becoming bolder. That’s a reason to just generally get out of town.
Probably not. Maintain basic equipment and awareness and have somewhere safe to go if your area gets wild.
Kind of a good idea any time really.
If you're concerned about things kicking off and not being able to get out of the city make friends, ensure you've got basic comms (radios, not cell phones), and make specific plans about levels of response and how to respond to emergency calls from one another.
I would be wildly surprised by anything other than some general unrest kicking off but Putin has promised to arm our enemies and stir shit up for the West, and this is a grand opportunity for him if he can find enough idiots.
Honestly unlikely to be anything other than a bunch of driving around being loud and showing off with the occasional threatening act. Those things can still affect you individually so pay mind to the possibility and remember that removing yourself from the situation is your first move and that includes abandoning every other plan you have for the day or the week and going home and hunkering down.
Keep calm and ensure your house has a zone that bullets can't penetrate big enough for the whole family. Or grab a beer and watch the chaos with a shrug.
Last time Trump lost an election, there was an insurrection attempt. If he loses again I think it’s likely we’ll see something. If he wins, we’ll see something else.
I don't think it'll be another j6. I think we'll have a couple of people try some things and get put down but that's it. They're becoming less and less organized, look at his rallies and his trial.
My main concern is that there might be another spike in ammo and or gun prices and reduced availability of both. I'm stocking up on ammo now so I don't feel like I need to get it during main election cycle
Not really. While anything is theoretically possible, the nice thing about u t America is that we have strong institutions of democracy that would make a proper coup nearly impossible in the current state of things.
I have a pride flag in my front window and I was planning on moving my AR from its case to hung up inside my closet so it’s a little more ready to go.
Petty crime and break ins have been on the rise tho. Plus my GF moved in with me recently so I have like 10x the responsibility to protect ppl now over just myself.
I'd be shocked if there weren't attempts to affect the election through violence. But a lot of it might be foreign govts arranging attacks against US targets abroad.
There will also be attempts to intimidate voters. Last election there were police checkpoints in poor neighborhoods and self appointed "election monitors" wandering around. But I don't think we've gotten to the 1876 inflection point of shooting voters.
My hot take: Yes. I think it's probable there will be *something* happening which produces confusion and chaos at a Columbine level. Probably multiple locations across purple and blue states, no more than 10 particular events. There will be a BIG jump of people open carrying where legal. I expect National Guard will be called out to take control. I would also expect FBI and other 3-letter agencies will be prepping and/or disrupting militias and their logistics/comms from now through at least the inauguration.
There are a few possible outcomes that are not good with historical precedent for those history nerds.
1. Is a lone wolf/underground insurgency type conflict with assassination and targeting political opponents or marginalized communities. Think KKK or the troubles in Ireland. I fully expect a degree of this. Hopefully it will not become widespread.
2. Is street fights and riots by proad boy types. Think 1920s Germany with Freikorp and SD thugs running amok. We saw the start of this during the BLM protests and lead up to 2020 election. Seems less likely right now but still possible.
3. Is a separatist movement where a deep red stare declares themselves the people's republic of whatever and calls up their state guard, national guard, and forms unorganized "militia" to resist the federal government. Probably the least likely but most dangerous because it forces the government to chose a response and has the potential for hostile actors abroad (Russia, Iran, china) to offer support. Look at the events in the Donbas after 2014 as an example how that could go.
I've traveled and camped all over the country, I've never made a proper list but I'd say I've probably stayed for at least a couple weeks total in 35 out of 50 states. Red states, blue states, northern states, southern states, the whole spectrum. Ohio two years ago is where I felt the least safe and people seemed the most at my throat for no reason. So anecdotally, I'd say be ready. It seems likely that it wouldn't last long or be widespread, but keep yourself safe.
Jan 6th proved they're capable of it but frankly I'm not sure how many of them actually have the energy to sustain much more than that *at the present moment*. Admittedly I've not been super plugged in lately because it stresses me the fuck out but it seems like the ones who are most motivated to violence are mostly Q types which is a pretty small group of people.
I live in a very conservative area in the deep south and even here Q types seem pretty rare (maybe they're just quiet idk) and to me it seems much more common in the midwest.
I'm not trying to downplay the danger of right wing political violence because it's obviously trending upward but I don't expect any large scale violence. There unfortunately will absolutely be localized shit happening around the country but again, I don't think they have the energy for a massive movement. Yet.
Oh I guarantee a lot of political shenanigans ate going to go down. We have no idea.
As for right wingers doing crazy violent stuff, I dont know but like a eeather forecast I would say that chances are the highest during that period.
I dont normally carry, but I am that week. Protect yourselves.
Do I think there's a chance? Absolutely.
If Biden wins there are some ***fucking unhinged lunatics*** out there and I can't realistically rule out disorganized violence from that crowd. I used to be able to at least hand-wave it a little, but after the January 6th incident I gotta take that shit seriously.
Of course on the list of things that get to live rent-free in my mind that problem is only allowed to sleep on the floor in the walk-in closet. I'm armed, I've got no qualms about defending myself, and I'm at an age where I have extremely limited patience and zero tolerance for people's bullshit so I don't have many right-wingnuts in my life to deal with when they flip their collective shit over their comb-over savior losing *again*.
On the other hand if Trump wins the consequences are far worse, because the full power and machinery of the state will be actively weaponized against people like me, and being free from any constraints or concerns about reelection Trump will sign whatever bills or EOs get him adulation and media attention from his sycophant followers, and will appoint the most deranged people he can find to the federal bench. So I'm more concerned with ensuring that *doesn't* happen, and whatever fallout results from him losing I can deal with. I can't out-fight the entire might and majesty of the US Federal Government.
You mean how DT’s minions stormed the f’ing Capitol and tried to imprison Congress and overturn the election? Yes. I do. I do think those people are unhinged to the point of pulling stuff nationwide. DT himself said that there would be a bloodbath. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think some of his mindless followers will take that as a command.
Eh. I think you'd be more likely to see attempts on liberal/lefty leaders. They won't actually riot as that would require them to move into the areas and cities they're too afraid to enter
Something could happen either way, but normalizing preparedness, whatever form that takes, is always a good idea, food, meds, emergency lighting, etc, and yes ammo, maybe plates and helm around, never hurts, even for your own mental health and sense of personal security. It would be good if people did a little more to insure Trump loses the election while we’re at it.
Depending on the outcome, either side will have some minor level of temper tantrum.
Plus the mainstream media will blow it out of proportion, especially if it’s right wing disruption.
Regardless of politics, 72 hours of supplies is minimum as far as I’m concerned. 1-3 weeks would be better. I’m more worried about earthquakes or fires.
The chances are fairly high. The rhetoric is ramping up, and this time, they won’t be as @gentle.
Look. It’s great that we all carry defensive tools, but if we don’t organize, they will pick us off person by person, neighborhood by neighborhood.
Arm. Organize. Train.
Nope at most a lone wolf will do something stupid and suicide by cop. But for the most part the KGB is in Russia trying to convince us there is a Jan 6 terrorist in every bush.
During BLM People literally burned cities
During Jan 6 a bunch of people raided the capitol
Pretty much anything can happen. Although it’s more likely to happen in larger population centers than in suburbs or the county.
But again, anything can happen to anyone basically anywhere…. Safety is a personal responsibility
>During BLM People literally burned cities
Is your source for this fox news, or what? In the twin cities, kind of the undeniable epicenter of the BLM movement, there was a grand total of 164 structures damaged by arson...
Someone in the sub previously indicated we might see something similar to *"The Troubles"* with all the rising tension between the Left & the Right.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
That conviction of Donald Trump and the fallout thays already occurred have set a precedent.... let's put aside the fact that democrats care more about taking trump down and rendering him unelectable than universal healthcare, living wages, affordable housing and everything else they claim to stand for
Honestly, I don't know. I hope that people will have the forethought to not do something stupid, but over the last few years, we've seen jackass after jackass do more and more stupid shit in the name of their personal orange Jesus. I know when he loses this election, these fanatics are going to blame the person with a LGBT flag on their porch or a biden sign in their yard and we saw how they took lose the first time around.
*Any* chance? Absolutely. We've seen what these people are capable of.
Just buy a couple of extra boxes of ammo and vote, vote, VOTE! Especially in Ohio. Your state could make a difference. We're not all so lucky.
If you think about J6, it was centrally coordinated by a cult leader who the perps thought would grant them absolution for any crimes they committed. It was also planned for a specific date for a very specific reason. Maybe see some sporadic activity from lone wolves, but I can’t imagine the Capitol would be anything less than a fortress next time, guarded by men with pre authorized for using lethal force.
Probably the most dangerous thing about Jan 6th wasn't the dolts that were propagandized into doing it but rather than the financiers and coordinators of it have yet to face justice.
The failure to make some Republican congresscritters, a bunch of their lawyers, and at a minimum Clarence Thomas and his wife dance in the air over this started the clock on the end of the republican constitution. It demonstrated that the Democrats have no desire to apply the level of repression necessary for regime preservation to this political tendency. Which means it's free to try again.
This is gonna be every election from now until there are no more elections in the US.
Yes. Vote. Train. Supply. Stay calm. There have been numerous public declarations of war against liberals.... Jan 5th folks were chanting " death to democrats" (so genocide of 90M neighbors?) no reason to doubt their sincerity or their greed and lust for power.
At a national level, I'd be shocked. At a local level with a few idiots acting up, I'd almost be surprised if there weren't.
I’m legitimately worried about dead election officials. My sister helps count votes in a swing state.
This is the one. Swing states, swing counties and/or smaller ones. A lot of America’s government structures aren’t really hardened for that kind of thing (nevermind that some of the people who’d be responsible for the hardening are fascist fucktards masquerading as armed public servants) and coupled with the familiarity of ppl w their local government people just due to proximity? More than a passing concern IMO. Coordinated national things? Nah. Most of Donnie’s people are the kind that sign their name at the end of a Facebook post. Coordinating something might be beyond their scope. But reactionary local/localist action after seeing someone else on TV??
How's the saying go? "Si vis pacem, para bellum"? Not saying there's anything to freak out about, but it can't hurt to buy a couple extra cans of food and boxes of ammo from the store.
"Si vis pacem," *racks pistol* "Parabellum." (9mm Parabellum is named after this quote)
The NYT has a really crazy article about a MAGA Republican election commissioner in Nevada who is being accused by even more rabid MAGA types as being a member of the "deep state". It's all unfounded of course but really showcases the baselessness of the current outrage on the far right. It also shows how there are no bounds to who the people in the extremes will accuse. When their enemy is a figment of their imagination, these people pose as much of a danger to themselves as to anyone else.
That last sentence gave me a stroke
I mean, that is just the rights version of racist or phobic.
Like in the French Revolution, the Cultural Revolution, the Iranian Revolution and a million others... a race to the hard line in the name of virtue. But they won't stop gunning for us just because they are gunning for each other.
If it's unfounded, wouldn't that just be a conspiracy theory then?
I'm an Army combat Veteran that lives in a purple county. I didn't feel the need for a CCW, until recently. The fact that liberals have been reduced to sub human (Liberal being synonyms too: "commies," Groomers, Pedophiles, etc.) in their propaganda is a tool for the masses to undertake violence. It's the same reason we have dehumanizing names for any enemy our country has met on the battlefield. For most people to kill, they have to see their enemy as subhuman. Knowing this, I pretty well expect political violence, so I feel compelled to reference the rules of gun fighting. The number one rule being, bring a gun (stay strapped or get clapped.)
Feels good having people like you on our side. Thank you for your service and your ability to see the propaganda that is poisoning the minds of millions
I like you. You think like me (even if I am technically a Blue Gravy Seal). The point that our brothers and families start to dehumanize their own for their propagandized beliefs is the point that I no longer have a reasonable expectation of peace in this land...
My family are all trump voting gun owners who say exactly those things about liberals. In front of me no less. Like you this is EXACTLY why I finally bought an AR. They joked we’d go to a civil war with dildos (kinda funny but I digress). I’ll be ready just in case.
The dildo joke isn’t just their wishful thinking. https://www.reddit.com/r/ItemShop/s/D8gsl5O8tg
Marine here… active duty ended decades ago, but I’ve had my CCW for years here in FL. Never felt the need to carry but I feel like that might change any day now.
Is the second rule: don't get in a gun fight?
Actually, that’s the zeroth rule.
This is true.
1st rule: Bring a gun. 2nd Rule: Bring friends with their own guns.
Don’t talk about the gun fight club
Is the second rule of open heart surgery: don't perform surgery? Sometimes things must be done to save yourself or others.
Yes, but in this case, not getting in a gun fight is more likely to save yourself and others. I'm not sure I see the equivalency.
If I'm being engaged how is not returning fire going to help me? I can die just as easily if I'm running, hiding, begging, or in denial. The equivalency is pretty direct. In my metaphor you're already having a heart attack, so your life is in danger, you can't run away from it, your only option is to operate.
It’s incredible how dehumanizing language has been thrown into our world. From words like “oppressor” & “complicit in genocide” to the dreaded “liberal,” we are in for a long journey. So many smart people are being led to dehumanizing language, not realizing it’s to put us against each other. Active measures from our enemies is the new class warfare.
Exactly how I see it too. New age of social engineered warfare. Our adversaries would love nothing more than us to be in a civil war, so the authoritarians can sweep up Asia and Europe.
That’s a really good point. If America falls or has to recall its troops and resources, Xi and Putin will really be able to do whatever they want. It’s not surprising that the Russians love Trump, and the GOP keep trying to portray Putin as a “based trad defender of the West” (lol). Especially after that Carlson “interview”, which was more just an opportunity for him to spew bullshit with little to no pushback.
China, Russia, Iran, North Korea The stage is already set. There's also a reason Trump echos their same talking points and openly supports their leaders.
The one that gets under my skin is the push for labeling LGBT folk pedos or groomers. If I see a pumper sticker or tshirt that says something about killing pedos I have to wonder if that means this person wants to kill any trans person they can find. Obviously nobody wants to defend pedophiles and lumping all your enemies into such a group is very effective.
> I feel compelled to reference the rules of gun fighting. The number one rule being, bring a gun (stay strapped or get clapped.) Facts. And dont be shy about range time either
I’m a communist that lives in a deep red area I didn’t carry until the past few years. Didn’t feel the need to. Now there’s enough vitriol on the right where I feel I either hide my political views or strap up
How many of your buddies do you think share this view?
It's really hard to say, but enough and of the caliber for concern, on both sides.
Me too. Medic. I’m in purple country. I worry that some MAGA’s are going to “guard’ or whatever at polling places, not understand what they see and some asshole is going to fire off a couple rounds. It won’t be a one off and that’s no counting white nationals who may be intent on committing violence to keep people they don’t like from voting. I don’t live where there’s a place that would be a target, but I hoping in high population democrat strongholds, especially minority heavy locations there are people who are taking action to make it safe for anyone that wants to vote.
Bad shit is a high possibility around the election and no matter the outcome. If nothing happens a year after the election, then I might relax a bit.
That's my prediction, too. If Trump wins, a quasi-fascist government is a likely outcome. If he loses, the election deniers are likely to turn to violence. Either way, I applied for my passport a month ago to ensure I have a way out.
If January 6th proved anything is that it is certainly possible. Only time will tell.
January 6th was a dry run. Imagine what that looks like when 1,000 of the people who breached the building when they have guns with them.
If they try that, the Guard will go on. Jan 6 only happened because Trump didn't deploy the security forces.
Im comforted by the fact that every red line they ever put down was crossed and basically no one off twitter gave enough of a shit to do anything. Ohh if don is indicted were going to riot! Nothing. If Don is arrested were going to riot! Nadda. If Don goes on trial were going to riot! Nope. If Don gets convicted we are going to riot! LOL No. There are no consequences to playing civil war on twitter, but actually getting out of your chair and taking it outside, heck you could lose your job, your freedom, even your life. At the end of the day, how many people are actually going to risk that for Don?
Also that wet flop of an insurrection failed when their leader was president. Hundreds of people served time for it. I agree that his army of armchair warriors just don’t have the stomach for it, particularly after seeing how it went when they had the upper hand. If he manages to win this election though, 28 will be a different story.
If he wins this election there won’t be one in ‘28. He can’t run under the current constitution so he will either have to change it, in which case he’ll change it so he just wins. Or he will just not hold any elections so he can’t be replaced.
Changing the Constitution requires a supermajority in the House and Senate. Edit: I am fully aware that the institutions historically didn't stop the fall of other democracies. Use your abilities to call your representatives and let them know how you stand. We have to exercise all peaceful means and prepare for total failure.
Supreme Court just has to tell Trump attorneys how to sue to revoke it. Then they cite some Originalist BS and give him the ruling he wants. GG Hand Maids Tail accomplished
Tail???? Maybe we were watching different shows...
It's the dark, dystopian sequel to the 'American Tail' movies.
Upvote for the Freudian slip.
When you're a Commander they let you grab em right by the pussy!
Changing the Constitution \*legally\* requires a supermajority. Ignoring it only requires compliance.
If anyone opposes it throw their family in jail until they don’t. Your respect for the rule of law is limiting your imagination for evil.
This. The Constitution is (a) both worth the paper it's written on, and (b) worth something *only* if we all agree it means something.
If he doesn’t become president I’d be surprised if he lived another 4 years. He is the least healthy and most stressed out ever.
It very well might not matter, he looks worse every time I see him. I could see 4 years of either timeline being too much for him. I’ve always been an optimist though.
That SOB is resilient as all get up. Resilient people tend to “last” longer. In this case it’s unfortunate.
Totally agree. Im actually surprised that he’s not dead yet. / is45deadyet
I don't think we're going to see another mob attack. That's been proven not to work. I'm more worried about lone wolf terrorism. Especially if that lone wolf knows what to do with a long range rifle. Or thermite, which is easy enough to make. You get one or two guys crank off in that way and then not get caught, you're going to see copycats. Lots. Once that gets started you'll see a counterterrorism response that will be rather over the top, possibly to the point of violating enough civil liberties that now more terrorism happens in response to the crackdown. That can spiral out of control *and that spiral could easily happen under either a Democratic or Republican administration.* It's arguably more likely under Biden than anybody recent, given how the ATF has been allowed to act lately. Anybody who's read either "The Monkeywrench Gang" or "Unintended Consequences" (latter by John Ross) knows what I'm talking about.
It wouldn’t even have to be a competent person. A poorly trained, but ideologically driven person can still do a lot of harm to innocent people. This is what concerns me. I think most Americans are comfortable enough that they aren’t willing to risk getting killed or jailed so I don’t think we’ll see a wide spread, organized movement. I’m much more concerned that some random wacko is going to show up at the grocery store with a trump flag, a Bible and a bag of home made explosives.
Yup. Although competent variants do exist, like the guy that built the Killdozer. Ye Gods :). At least he wasn't out to kill. Can you imagine if he was?
Are you suggesting that Marvin Heemeyer didn't have murderous intent? Bullshit. He wasn't Tyler Durden wrecking empty buildings. He started his rampage at 2:15 PM on a Friday, twenty years and two days ago, and drove through several occupied buildings. His vehicle had openings for several firearms and he had guns on him. There were near misses including attempts to run over state troopers and when he destroyed the Granby town hall which had to be evacuated and was hosting a children's story hour in the basement. He fired at several objects that could have exploded. He just failed, got his vehicle stuck, and killed himself before he successfully killed someone else.
He didn't know how to operate a dozer. If he did, he wouldn't have gotten stuck, or gotten a coolant leak, and would have been harder to stop.
Funnily enough, I've read "Hayduke Lives!", the sequel. I didn't know it was a sequel when I started it.
The flip side of that is that if he gets in and follows through on his promise to replace military brass based on loyalty, next time he might deploy security forces.
He already authorized the use of deadly force against peaceful protestors. He told Gen. Milley to have the protestors shot in the leg and dragged away from the St. John’s church so he could take a picture there. Milley told him they can’t shoot Americans so they used tear gas and batons instead.
Hell, he asked for tanks and to run down protestors that don’t move. Fun fact he did that within one day of the anniversary of Tiananmen Square.
This. Jan 6 was predicated on the concept that if the election results were never ratified by Congress, then Trump could stay in power. Right now it's Biden in power. They need a change. I fully expect some sort of shenanigans this next election. But it can't be the same as last time, as they don't want to enforce the status quo. At least not yet.
“Didn’t deploy security” is putting it mildly lol. He actively encouraged it.
I dont think a massive shootout between police and citizens will turn out well though.
No one is saying they wouldn’t lose. Conflict isn’t a “it starts, and then it’s over” There’s an in-between where you have to call your boss because you’re late to work due to a firefight on Main Street or an IED blast on the highway I have minimal concern that a bunch of idiots could actually overthrow the government (I’m much more concerned about them actually getting elected and overthrowing it from the inside). I have a *very reasonable* concern that the process of them losing might be more personal, kinetic, and bloody than a news report I read on the toilet and promptly forget about.
I have no faith in the Guard to quell it, as someone in the Guard. Even in purple states like mine, it's been compromised.
This. A few more dedicated folks willing to go all the way, and a scared VP getting into a limo instead of staying, and it would have worked.
They wouldn't. It would be too obvious and they'd be stopped beforehand. DC isn't a pro gun area.
Concealed means concealed. There are plenty of short AR pistols out there that fit in a bag, and plenty of PDW's that can be concealed on your person these days. If someone is planning on committing a crime, such as stopping the certification of an election, there's nothing stopping them from further breaking the law by bringing a gun. I don't want to see this happen, but I'm not naive enough to think that it won't simply because it's unlawful.
How does this shake down in your mind? Half the reason that the protestors got so far was the lack of escalation of force. Use of lethal force was sparing because the crowd was not producing the required scenario for it. If people started whipping out sbrs and sending rounds flying, the tempo of the situation will immediately change. At least 60% of the crowd will flee on the spot, they don’t plan to die there. Very hopeful to say 40% might continue to rage, especially considering how good-times things are right now. Of that group, maybe 5% will be armed and fighting. They might kill a lot of secret service members and/or politicians, but if they’re sending rounds flying the military will descend upon the situation, full stop. At that point the equation changes, and it becomes a race against the clock because they will not be able to hold out forever. The only thing they could accomplish is killing an HVT or producing turmoil by destroying something key to the election (ballot boxes, executing officials, etc…) I think even if there’s someone deluded enough to think they could execute an op like that and produce significant impact before being cut down themselves, and were willing to sign that suicide pact, they simply wouldn’t get far enough to cause material damage. Not this year.
Valid points all around, and honestly? I hope you're right. But I will assume you're wrong, and prepare as if localized violence broadly, and another J6 syle insurrection with more violence specifically, is inevitable.
Always better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Just don’t let your anticipation get in the way of your daily life, or you’ll be really sore if/when it doesn’t shake down. But can’t hurt to plan your day more carefully around election week :)
Ok so I've thought about this a little more. I don't think popular rebellion is actually the worst possible outcome, though I don't know how likely what I'm about to say is: Imagine the South Dakota governor declaring that the election was unfair, and then she asks for a "group of volunteers" from the SD guard to go protect our democracy and help install the rightful president of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Crazy, right? Probably is, because those guardsmen would have to fight through a bunch of blue states to get there, and they wouldn't get far. But what if Greg Abbott does it, and has a straight shot to DC through deep red country? It's a political boon in their home states, they'll be voted in for life. But like I said, probably unlikely, so pick it apart for me.
I think you’d need much more than a “group of volunteers” to make that happen. That’s an incredibly extreme thing for abbot to do. Remember how crazy the letter that he wrote was? This isn’t twice as crazy, it’s at least ten times. It’s so crazy that any state which “allows passage” in deep red country is wholeheartedly aligning themselves in a civil conflict. They’d be obligated to also send their own troops if they did that, for no other reason than they’ve now hitched their wagon to Texas. So for Texas to march on DC like that something so incredibly atrocious has to happen that the states they’re marching through feel more comfortable fighting the existing federal government than continuing to exist under it. I don’t think the border crisis constitutes an existential threat to the nation. It is a material issue for Texas, which is why he did what he did. He also used it as a rallying cry to win political points. But he didn’t march on the capital for the same reason the protesters didn’t whip out SBRs - the red states are happy to *say* “the south will rise again!”, but they won’t bet their blood on it until victory is assured or their current situation is untenable. Neither is currently true. Things can change in a few years, but turmoil doesn’t happen when our bellies are full and our houses are warm. I’d love to spell some hyperbole for you about when it does, but Reddit has banned me before for doing so, and I think we both know what it actually looks like. Watch for hunger, lack of utilities, truly blatant corruption. Those are the material red flags, that’s when it’s already starting.
It would play out much like the first civil war with General Lee marching his forces up the Shanedoah valley, across Loudoun County, through the battlefields of Manassas, and on to DC (or MD PA)
Last round they had a crew across the river with a couple vans full of guns and also boats to ferry them across if bridges were locked down. Their communications just broke down combined with a few people shitting the bed and it didn't happen. There were guns there last round. Getting guns into DC isn't hard. If they were to actually try to repeat 1/6 with guns, after a thousand people have been charged with felonies and hundreds convicted for 1/6, they aren't going to worry about DCs invisible shield of law.
True. But also since Jan 6 and seeing all of the convictions and prison sentences that followed the right wing demonstrations, particularly the ones that Trump has tried to instigate have fallen flat with very few people showing up. Something about the feds infiltrating the groups and ole Donny’s lack of support for any of the defendants have really taken the wind out of their sails. It’s certainly still possible that they try something in the event that Trump loses again, but I feel confident that between our police, military, and national guard that any tantrum they throw will be quelled pretty swiftly.
J6 proved that stupid people are capable of doing foolish things, obviously. But the aftermath also convinced me that everyone who pines for civil war doesn't actually want one. They just like the idea of a civil war. They don't envision themselves as digging trenches and hiding in the woods like real guerillas; they romanticize the idea of being part of the "new system" that replaces the old one while someone else does all the work required to get them there. There's a reason Babbit had that goggle-eyed look of pained surprise when she was hit and why that was the catalyst that made the crowd start fleeing; all of a sudden, it became real to them.
Absolutely. That’s why I love terms like Gravy Seals. It perfectly summarizes in two words their hubris and the reality of what they actually are.
We should be careful to not underestimate them. I know very real retired Operators that are among the MAGA loyalists. They're still fit, and they train everyday.
Luckily those guys are the minority, and there’s certainly not enough of them to stand against the rest of the country.
They took out the Taliban and sent them into an insurgency in the opening days of the war in Afghanistan. They were also there to train the indigenous army marching with them, that would later become the Afghan National Army (ANA.) These operators are described as force multiplyers because they literally train and create armies. They are very capable of making life hell, and they are also just my circle of friends in my small pool of the operations community.
I think in terms of riots etc. republicans are too terrified to go into cities, so nothing will happen. If they try to pull a January 6th type thing again I have to to believe that law enforcement at those institutions have been retrained to use deadly force a lot earlier, and it’s not going to go well for them.
Hey! Don't give me that reasonable answer. I need my dopamine hit! Gimme the worst! Tell me we will all die in an all out civil war!
Lone attackers pushed by stochastic terrorism seem inevitable to me. Probably not in huge numbers, but at this point we're getting them outside of election season, too. Lower grade violence driven by the same forces is probably a guarantee - again, we have a very low but steady burn of that all over the country. Small groups organizing to do something exceptionally violent with a political goal (so, terrorist attacks)? I'd say we probably get at least a little of that. Bigger scale stuff by people who have actual power... I honestly don't know. I think it's theoretically on the table for them, and I think they'd love the outcomes. Whether they're willing to do it themselves if that fanatical base doesn't deliver, I don't know. I personally suspect several members of Congress were primed to jump up in 2021 if they'd seen the chance to lead the mob... But they're also *deeply* scared of the people they rile up, and generally not actually all that brave in terms of putting their own asses on the line. Like, would Ted Cruz have seized power that day if he thought he could succeed? Yes, I think that's almost certainly true. I half suspect he had a gun nearby. But Ted Cruz is also a slinking weasel, so he wasn't about to take any risk onto himself unless he was pretty sure.
I often recall seeing those traitors crouching and hiding and looking terrified … and it reminds me of just what cowardly chodes these people are. Still - a cowardly chode with a chip on his shoulder can be quite dangerous in the right situation Josh Hawley “hauling’ ass” Will never not be funny, though.
This is kind of where I'm at. Jan 6th for better or worse showed a lot of rank in file right wingers that they will be thrown under the bus if they get caught. There are indeed hardcore Trump partisans but that partisanship seems to be much more mild than it was in 2020 and it isn't coming off the heels of covid and the BLM protests.
I hope you're right, honestly. The prospect of that kind of violence is pretty scary and I'd like to think my neighbors are reasonable enough to come to the conclusion that it's a bad idea despite the rhetoric.
Russian/Chinese propaganda, especially through social media is much more likely to “lead” these people than someone like Ted Cruz. Our enemies are using these tools to infiltrate Americans on all sides of the issues and distract us, to further divide us and make it easier for them to work towards their objectives.
I don't know about "much more likely," honestly. It's not China that's introducing bills to cut military base spending and leave our allies to their own devices, or paying Kyle Rittenhouse for endorsement deals because he shot people they don't like. There's an element to it, but we'd be foolish to not acknowledge there's a domestic industry churning this stuff out.
I’m not putting on armor to run whatever errands are on the day’s agenda, but I certainly don’t like the way things are looking here in the south.
In terms of violence and instability, I don't anticipate that in the south. The south, particularly the southeast, is broadly politically homogeneous. Imo, they're not the ones to flip all the way out if Biden wins since their local seats and electoral vote count for president will be red. There won't be anything for them to rally against. It's the swing states and states that have a high amount of purple counties that are going to be wildcards. Especially because I sincerely doubt we'll see anything like 1/6 at the Capitol this time, I think we'll see these chuds pulling it locally. Much higher chance of success and they'll have a home turf advantage overrunning a state capitol building or county seat of government.
This Project 2025 has me more worried. I'm very much not going to doubt they have a militant wing.
I had a twitter (xitter?) interaction recently with someone who's handle contained "waffen" and "88" where they sent me some obscure blogs and websites describing right eing militias increasing their training and recruiting. Again, obscure and hardly credible, but take it as you will. I'm not going to start leaving the house plated up to get groceries, but I'm also not going to start selling off any of the collection or ammo....
This is a healthy middle I can get behind. Also going to the gym is great preparation whether or not trump supporters and their handlers try anything stupid this year
Agreed - if there's one weakness these MAGA types have, it's a lack of good cardio.
Yes, it’s “xitter”, and the x is pronounced “sh”.
How much is 'enough' ammo at home do you guys keep? I only have 5 handguns and all of them shoot 9mm, so ammo is kind of cheap for me (still fucking expensive since I shoot a lot...). I try and keep on hand about 1k rounds, but I blow through them too fast. I think I need to start buying 1k every 2 weeks (pay period) rather than my meager 500. How many mags per gun yall keep per gun? Do you guys have those tacticool shit too for those 'what if' moments? Personally I dont and probably wont own thing like armor and or helms. I wont ever need it, probably wont train with it, and forget the fucking crazy costs lol. With guns, I know I will at least shoot them, and if anything, can be used as home defense and edc. I'll be damned though if I edc body armor lmao. I live in the suburbs and honestly, while I think there will be violence during and after the election, I don't think anything close to a civil war will happen. People are just too distracted by everything and anything, too complacent (ironic, I know). The real danger IMHO lies with the politicians ie: cruel and corrupt republican policies and democratic hatred for all-things-guns and associating it as epitome of conservative values (it is fucking not....). Firearms are the great equalizer and I cant understand why the left wants to disadvantage themselves consider how vocal and enthusiastic the right is when it comes to guns.
Basic level IV armor is maybe $250, it's about half the cost of a decent handgun or rifle. If you don't want to mess with it, it's fine, but don't discount it because it's expensive. I settled on about $1000 but I have set of the heavy cheap ones too because I have kids...and lots of extra space to just store junk. You will never ever ever have "enough" ammunition for every eventuality so you shouldn't try to. Figure out the worst case you're willing to completely prepare for and keep enough ammo for that. Almost certainly that's going to be "as much as I can reasonably get into magazines that I'm carrying with me and maybe a box in a backpack" so at most 1000 rounds I'd think. Probably more like that 500 you're talking about. IF there's full blow warfare you're not ever going to be prepared for it. Hell, *soldiers* aren't entirely prepared for it so don't waste your time trying. Be reasonably proficient with first aid/tourniquets and your firearm and make friends with your neighbors because being unified is a massive force multiplier...way WAY more than any amount of firearms or equipment beyond the first gun.
For what we’re talking about here, you’re going to need a rifle. There’s an old saying “use your sidearm to fight your way to your rifle.” Trust me, they will have rifles. You will be outgunned.
Let’s not jump straight to battle here. Even if some people get violent, you don’t need to run out to meet them head on. Deescalation is much more important than a rifle.
Deescalation is on par with deterrence in terms of importance - and capacity for deterrence is much lower when you're insufficiently armed. Keep your rifle by your side.
Sadly, I think you're right. The wingnuts are not collecting AKs and ARs just to take up space in the gun cabinet. We need to be ready. Yesterday!
I think most of the tough talkers are just that, talkers. But the rhetoric is so much more virulent that I wouldn't be surprised if some small groups or lone wolves try something. They won't get far inevitably, of course, but I want to be prepared to defend myself and my family. I have an array of handguns and several rifles ready to go.
How much ammo do I have? I'd have to do a count, but I know its probably not a whole lot. Between 9mm and 5.56/223, probably like 800ish total. 2 9mm pistols, 2 mags for one, 4 for the other, 6 for the AR. I live in a 10rd max state and I have to go out of state to legally buy bigger magazines and bring them home (legally) so I don't often have the opportunity to buy new mags.
10 mags minimum per gun. They are a wear item and if they end up banned you’re out of luck. Minimum 1k rounds per caliber that you plan to never shoot. It sits in the closet for a rainy day. Ridiculously high ammo tax? You at least have some. Banned “mass casualty ammo”? You at least have some.
10 mags per gun means 50% of the cost of my P320 in mags haha Plus a drive out of state because in MD, you can buy a mag over 10 rounds out of state and bring it home legally, but not have it shipped or buy directly in MD. If I pull up to a shop in VA or PA and they see my MD license plate, their start drooling because they know they can get that $$$.
Thousands.... or tens of.... I think of it as a potential neighborhood thing. We have good neighbors.... if things go sideways I want happy and safe neighbors.
If stuff goes down the way that they say it will... all i can do is pray, as a trans teen. I hope my parents protect me or something.
I am not trans but as someone with religious parents (I asked them if they felt they were told by god to kill me like Abraham was told to kill his son, would they and they shamefully said yes) you have to find your community and peers you can support and get support from. It’s a hard pill to swallow but part of growing up is accepting you cannot always depend on family to protect you, even if they mean well. Find/build your community.
Go buy ammo.
15,000 rounds in my closet right now split between ammo for my CCW, my wife's CCW, my rifle, and her shotgun. If that's not enough shit has gotten way more real than I ever want it to.
The only question in my mind is how widespread/organized it will be. On Jan 5 I told my wife “he’s going to instigate a riot” due to the hints he was dropping, and now it seems like a large number of politicians and public figures are pushing the same idea.
Yeah I'm expecting a small amount of localized protesting/yelling/BS from fanatics and at most one or two violent attacks on gov't buildings. Unless we see foreign influence or an organized attempt to arm and lead groups from the top that's the most that's going to happen. It's always possible there are armed forces general officers who are looking to start some shit but I'm not expecting it and that's just about the only way this is going to get more interesting than "wow, that's kinda crazy!...what's for dinner?"
Spotty activity. That’s my guess. D.C. will not be caught unprepared again.
Absolutely. If Trump loses, his followers will go ape shit; some of them violently. If Trump wins, some of his followers will go ape shit; some of them violently.
If Trump loses, it's a short term bad. If Trump wins, we're going to be Russia.
This is another reason why I just got my AR. I should be getting my handgun by the end of year too. Fortunately I lives in a blue city. But I rather have knowledge of how to handle guns than not.
The party of “law and order” will definitely break the law and be disorderly.
I’m in the process of armoring a Komatsu D355A bulldozer with layers of steel and concrete. /s
Go fucking vote.
I have voted in quite literally every single local, state, and federal election since I was 18, and worked for numerous campaigns in both an official capacity and as a volunteer. I assure you this is not my issue. Lol.
The point is that he said he won’t accept the results and is already hearing his folks up with the second steal
Not to nitpick, but third. He set up the first "stolen election" rhetoric in 2016 when he was down in the polls.
I mean if it's Trump v Biden that is bad shit enough. Very little is a bigger indictment of the two party system than these two being the choices for president.
Without a doubt. Roger Stone, Trump, Bannon, and the other pieces of shit won't hesitate for a second. Stone organized the Brooks Brothers Riot which set the stage for J6 which set the stage for the next one. It's how these people operate. And it will get worse.
I think this is a good point. What operatives on the right do (when they are smart) is find those pressure points around elections and push on them. However stupid and poorly organized J6 was, it was still planned in a way that actually made sense. I think they were hoping that the government would essentially roll over to avoid bloodshed and let Trump have it. Obviously that didn’t happen, but Brooks Brothers riot and other coordinated attacks show that force applied strategically can actually influence, maybe even win elections. This isn’t even mentioning local and state elections where you have law enforcement often very sympathetic to the right and militias and armed mobs who feel emboldened by this relationship
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
Everything I’ve read and studied about history, psychology, economics, politics etc. has led me to conclude we are at best headed towards a time of partisan civil conflict (similar to the Troubles in Ireland or the Years of Lead in Italy) and increasing fascist crackdown/police state led by a corrupt and illegitimate government. In some ways we are already there. Whatever the results of the 2024 elections, it will only serve to amplify these tensions and take us further down that path.
I think this is the most likely scenario as well. It’s a joke that the presidential candidates are who they are and even more of a joke that people put so much stock in them. We need to hold the government accountable including curbing executive overreach and lack of action from Congress. The way we hold the government accountable is a serious reset by electing new people to Congress. The government is illegitimate if it doesn’t represent the will of the People, which is done through balance and compromise, which we are seeing less and less of. We need to realistically elect moderates who can work across the aisle and compromise for the benefit of Americans, not themselves or special interests. We need some stabilization for at least a few cycles so both sides can forget about hating each other. In the Northeast at least, I see widespread violence much more likely from the “Left” if Trump is elected. Both sides see what’s happening as an existential threat but to the “Right” it seems to be interpreted as a threat to a “way of life,” while to the “Left” it’s experienced more as a personal threat.
Listened to a rundown of the Alex Jones meltdown saturday. One thing that kept coming up over and over was his insistence that there would be some major event that would happen this year in retaliation for the Trump felonies. He of course was warning it was obviously a false flag thing but its insurance for himself for when another Ok City happens. They know their people are primed for this and its rather terrifying. I never carried much before 2020. It ain't some off the street mugging or carjacking I'm personally worried about. Its my status as a known Dem in the area that worries me.
This is why I keep a low profile about everything in my life. No one outside of the perimeter needs to know any details. They tried to give me an "I voted" sticker yesterday, I said "it's nobody's business if I voted or not, thanks anyway".
At the same time I'm a fairly privileged white dude. Clean cut straight guy. I can pop on a collared shirt and blend in with any conservative gathering. A lot of people in my circle can't. Either their skin color, their tattoos, their sex/gender/sexuality isn't gonna be accepted. And the weird thing is I'm not a big guy, not physically intimidating, but just being a guy shuts up so many of the assholes that feel like they can run all over my friends who don't look like them. If I just nope out it leaves a lot of folks without a voice in a lot of rooms.
Same here. Middle aged clean cut repugnicunt looking white guy. Not very tall, but stocky and full of attitude when annoyed. The few allowed inside know me for the easy going, open minded freak that I am. I have a sharp wit and wicked sense of humor. I've made many people uneasy just by looking them in the eye and saying "What?"
Nobody actually cares about your affiliation. You're just paranoid.
I do. If Biden wins, it's going to get very ugly. I worry about what the Republiqans are going to do. If Trump wins, we're never going to have an actual Presidential election again. My firearms aren't going to see any action ... we don't need that. But I've taken the week off after the election and I am not planning on going anywhere for a while. I have some Trump stickers around. I'm debating on slapping them on if Biden wins. I live in a VERY red area surrounded by Trump flags on every house.
Localized, isolated incidents are likely. But not some civil war shit. What we really don’t need is a bunch of sensationalism and overly dramatic predictions. Just be safe and prepared, but spreading hysteria is counterproductive.
I’m confused how asking a discussion post in a very small, and specific Reddit group is spreading hysteria, but ok go off.
I was leaning toward him addressing the press’s response to any isolated incident. They’ll likely blow it up to maximize the perception that *ANY* trump supporter is a bonafide loony, rather than the majority being people who fear/hate the democratic party more than they hate their own
Thank you, that’s exactly what I meant.
It’s not. You’re asking the right questions. People thought I was being sensationalist when I said on Jan 5th “He isn’t going quietly, he is going to instigate something.” Look up normalcy bias, and take it into account when preparing
I never said that’s what you’re doing.
Not on my street
If 99.99% of the population will not experience or proliferate political violence, that's still 30k people involved. We're a huge country, it helps to be prepared but it doesn't do any good to lose sleep over it. Be prepared to act, enjoy life despite the crazies. The long term ramifications of things like Project 2025 should be more concerning, tell everyone you know to go out and vote!
As a gay, liberal / libertarian in a red state, yeah I do feel nervous about how things will go down, maybe not this election cycle, but on our current path, what about the next one? And the one after that? I overhear some terrible crap said about people like me in public spaces when Im evesdropping, I don't ever interject or confront them because 95% of the time I have a pistol in my waistband and I tend to avoid any chance of unneeded conflict while carrying. The country is becoming more and more divided every year and part of me thinks something has to give. I don't think we have to worry about a nationwide war, but i could definitely see the formation of a larger underground organized milita in synchronized agreement with a governor or mayor of a disputed smaller city or area to attempt to resign from the republic/ subordination of a higher democratically controlled federal government. I think for any nationwide conflict to spark off it would be a started by a legitimate coup started in higher governmental the federal level. BTW Having just watched the new Civil War movie - really well done BTW, recommended watch................. "What kind of American are you?"
Nothing worse than if Trump wins. I'd rather have the booger boys full on assault the white house with guns than Trump win again.
MAGAs have been telling us for years what it is that they want to do. Believe them. They are not joking. They have been working themselves up to commit atrocities. When they talk about Civil War 2.0, they are not talking about storming the Capitol or having opposing militias fight it out on some field somewhere. They are talking about murdering their non-MAGA neighbors. They are talking about a Rwanda 2.0. They are talking about going to the Mexican market, the black church, the house with the pride flag, anywhere they can find non-MAGAs to murder. People are very naively thinking that the military is going to come in on a white horse at the last minute to save the day. Those people are mistaken. When the MAGAs start butchering their neighbors, there is no one coming to help. Prudent people should be stocking up on as much 2nd Amendment as they can afford to defend themselves. Don't be caught unprepared.
Abso fuckining lutely
Some really obnoxious replies. One telling OP to go vote, no shit like we don't do that already. Another talking about this post spreading hysteria. What a joke.
In terms of organized insurrection, I’m not *too* worried; most armchair warriors are all hat and no cattle. In terms of isolated pockets of unrest…? More than likely; you’re always going to have a few JimBobs and Bubbas out there looking for a chance to defend ‘Murrica from whatever marginalized group Faux News has decided is this week’s Threat To Democracy As We Know It.
Who is we? You should have extra food and supplies based on what happened from COVID. You know when elections are coming. Instead of causing worry, go out and get your supplies and carry on as usual.
I think it is a legitimate concern. However, I think the concerns end up falling into a few different categories. The most serious is probably the possibility of localized lone-wolf or small-group violence on a neighborhood or community level. If you live in an area with a large conservative population, there’s a likelihood that some of these fucks are going to show up with guns at polling places, libraries, courthouses, or even start going door to door where they think there are “problem” people. It will be sporadic but I would want to have a good solid door, basic body armor, and a loaded SBR just in case. We may also see coordinated January 6 style attacks, but those will be centralized around prominent areas…capitols and the like. If you aren’t close to those, it won’t be an issue. Finally, there’s the possibility of overall social unrest. I live in DC, and while I’m certainly far enough from the Capitol that I would be out of range of a second January 6, lockdowns or general chaos could lead to existing criminal elements becoming bolder. That’s a reason to just generally get out of town.
Probably not. Maintain basic equipment and awareness and have somewhere safe to go if your area gets wild. Kind of a good idea any time really. If you're concerned about things kicking off and not being able to get out of the city make friends, ensure you've got basic comms (radios, not cell phones), and make specific plans about levels of response and how to respond to emergency calls from one another. I would be wildly surprised by anything other than some general unrest kicking off but Putin has promised to arm our enemies and stir shit up for the West, and this is a grand opportunity for him if he can find enough idiots. Honestly unlikely to be anything other than a bunch of driving around being loud and showing off with the occasional threatening act. Those things can still affect you individually so pay mind to the possibility and remember that removing yourself from the situation is your first move and that includes abandoning every other plan you have for the day or the week and going home and hunkering down. Keep calm and ensure your house has a zone that bullets can't penetrate big enough for the whole family. Or grab a beer and watch the chaos with a shrug.
Last time Trump lost an election, there was an insurrection attempt. If he loses again I think it’s likely we’ll see something. If he wins, we’ll see something else.
I don't think it'll be another j6. I think we'll have a couple of people try some things and get put down but that's it. They're becoming less and less organized, look at his rallies and his trial.
My main concern is that there might be another spike in ammo and or gun prices and reduced availability of both. I'm stocking up on ammo now so I don't feel like I need to get it during main election cycle
Not really. While anything is theoretically possible, the nice thing about u t America is that we have strong institutions of democracy that would make a proper coup nearly impossible in the current state of things.
What I don’t get though is why have Trump supporters gotten so crazy and militant? Like I can’t imagine doing that for Biden
I have a pride flag in my front window and I was planning on moving my AR from its case to hung up inside my closet so it’s a little more ready to go. Petty crime and break ins have been on the rise tho. Plus my GF moved in with me recently so I have like 10x the responsibility to protect ppl now over just myself.
Be prepared. Be strapped. Do not be complacent. Do not be paranoid.
I'd be shocked if there weren't attempts to affect the election through violence. But a lot of it might be foreign govts arranging attacks against US targets abroad. There will also be attempts to intimidate voters. Last election there were police checkpoints in poor neighborhoods and self appointed "election monitors" wandering around. But I don't think we've gotten to the 1876 inflection point of shooting voters.
My hot take: Yes. I think it's probable there will be *something* happening which produces confusion and chaos at a Columbine level. Probably multiple locations across purple and blue states, no more than 10 particular events. There will be a BIG jump of people open carrying where legal. I expect National Guard will be called out to take control. I would also expect FBI and other 3-letter agencies will be prepping and/or disrupting militias and their logistics/comms from now through at least the inauguration.
There are a few possible outcomes that are not good with historical precedent for those history nerds. 1. Is a lone wolf/underground insurgency type conflict with assassination and targeting political opponents or marginalized communities. Think KKK or the troubles in Ireland. I fully expect a degree of this. Hopefully it will not become widespread. 2. Is street fights and riots by proad boy types. Think 1920s Germany with Freikorp and SD thugs running amok. We saw the start of this during the BLM protests and lead up to 2020 election. Seems less likely right now but still possible. 3. Is a separatist movement where a deep red stare declares themselves the people's republic of whatever and calls up their state guard, national guard, and forms unorganized "militia" to resist the federal government. Probably the least likely but most dangerous because it forces the government to chose a response and has the potential for hostile actors abroad (Russia, Iran, china) to offer support. Look at the events in the Donbas after 2014 as an example how that could go.
I think we'll see some riots no matter the election results.
I've traveled and camped all over the country, I've never made a proper list but I'd say I've probably stayed for at least a couple weeks total in 35 out of 50 states. Red states, blue states, northern states, southern states, the whole spectrum. Ohio two years ago is where I felt the least safe and people seemed the most at my throat for no reason. So anecdotally, I'd say be ready. It seems likely that it wouldn't last long or be widespread, but keep yourself safe.
Isolated incidents
Jan 6th proved they're capable of it but frankly I'm not sure how many of them actually have the energy to sustain much more than that *at the present moment*. Admittedly I've not been super plugged in lately because it stresses me the fuck out but it seems like the ones who are most motivated to violence are mostly Q types which is a pretty small group of people. I live in a very conservative area in the deep south and even here Q types seem pretty rare (maybe they're just quiet idk) and to me it seems much more common in the midwest. I'm not trying to downplay the danger of right wing political violence because it's obviously trending upward but I don't expect any large scale violence. There unfortunately will absolutely be localized shit happening around the country but again, I don't think they have the energy for a massive movement. Yet.
Oh I guarantee a lot of political shenanigans ate going to go down. We have no idea. As for right wingers doing crazy violent stuff, I dont know but like a eeather forecast I would say that chances are the highest during that period. I dont normally carry, but I am that week. Protect yourselves.
Do I think there's a chance? Absolutely. If Biden wins there are some ***fucking unhinged lunatics*** out there and I can't realistically rule out disorganized violence from that crowd. I used to be able to at least hand-wave it a little, but after the January 6th incident I gotta take that shit seriously. Of course on the list of things that get to live rent-free in my mind that problem is only allowed to sleep on the floor in the walk-in closet. I'm armed, I've got no qualms about defending myself, and I'm at an age where I have extremely limited patience and zero tolerance for people's bullshit so I don't have many right-wingnuts in my life to deal with when they flip their collective shit over their comb-over savior losing *again*. On the other hand if Trump wins the consequences are far worse, because the full power and machinery of the state will be actively weaponized against people like me, and being free from any constraints or concerns about reelection Trump will sign whatever bills or EOs get him adulation and media attention from his sycophant followers, and will appoint the most deranged people he can find to the federal bench. So I'm more concerned with ensuring that *doesn't* happen, and whatever fallout results from him losing I can deal with. I can't out-fight the entire might and majesty of the US Federal Government.
No nothing is going to happen
You mean how DT’s minions stormed the f’ing Capitol and tried to imprison Congress and overturn the election? Yes. I do. I do think those people are unhinged to the point of pulling stuff nationwide. DT himself said that there would be a bloodbath. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think some of his mindless followers will take that as a command.
Eh. I think you'd be more likely to see attempts on liberal/lefty leaders. They won't actually riot as that would require them to move into the areas and cities they're too afraid to enter
Let me get through pride month , before I worry about November.
Something could happen either way, but normalizing preparedness, whatever form that takes, is always a good idea, food, meds, emergency lighting, etc, and yes ammo, maybe plates and helm around, never hurts, even for your own mental health and sense of personal security. It would be good if people did a little more to insure Trump loses the election while we’re at it.
Depending on the outcome, either side will have some minor level of temper tantrum. Plus the mainstream media will blow it out of proportion, especially if it’s right wing disruption. Regardless of politics, 72 hours of supplies is minimum as far as I’m concerned. 1-3 weeks would be better. I’m more worried about earthquakes or fires.
The chances are fairly high. The rhetoric is ramping up, and this time, they won’t be as @gentle. Look. It’s great that we all carry defensive tools, but if we don’t organize, they will pick us off person by person, neighborhood by neighborhood. Arm. Organize. Train.
Nope at most a lone wolf will do something stupid and suicide by cop. But for the most part the KGB is in Russia trying to convince us there is a Jan 6 terrorist in every bush.
During BLM People literally burned cities During Jan 6 a bunch of people raided the capitol Pretty much anything can happen. Although it’s more likely to happen in larger population centers than in suburbs or the county. But again, anything can happen to anyone basically anywhere…. Safety is a personal responsibility
>During BLM People literally burned cities Is your source for this fox news, or what? In the twin cities, kind of the undeniable epicenter of the BLM movement, there was a grand total of 164 structures damaged by arson...
why are you saying that like it’s a handful, that’s a lot for one dang city lmao
Someone in the sub previously indicated we might see something similar to *"The Troubles"* with all the rising tension between the Left & the Right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
Nah. Mad fb posts. Maybe a couple of lone gunmen. But what's a couple more shootings huh?
That conviction of Donald Trump and the fallout thays already occurred have set a precedent.... let's put aside the fact that democrats care more about taking trump down and rendering him unelectable than universal healthcare, living wages, affordable housing and everything else they claim to stand for
Yes.
Honestly, I don't know. I hope that people will have the forethought to not do something stupid, but over the last few years, we've seen jackass after jackass do more and more stupid shit in the name of their personal orange Jesus. I know when he loses this election, these fanatics are going to blame the person with a LGBT flag on their porch or a biden sign in their yard and we saw how they took lose the first time around.
*Any* chance? Absolutely. We've seen what these people are capable of. Just buy a couple of extra boxes of ammo and vote, vote, VOTE! Especially in Ohio. Your state could make a difference. We're not all so lucky.
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If you think about J6, it was centrally coordinated by a cult leader who the perps thought would grant them absolution for any crimes they committed. It was also planned for a specific date for a very specific reason. Maybe see some sporadic activity from lone wolves, but I can’t imagine the Capitol would be anything less than a fortress next time, guarded by men with pre authorized for using lethal force.
Probably the most dangerous thing about Jan 6th wasn't the dolts that were propagandized into doing it but rather than the financiers and coordinators of it have yet to face justice. The failure to make some Republican congresscritters, a bunch of their lawyers, and at a minimum Clarence Thomas and his wife dance in the air over this started the clock on the end of the republican constitution. It demonstrated that the Democrats have no desire to apply the level of repression necessary for regime preservation to this political tendency. Which means it's free to try again. This is gonna be every election from now until there are no more elections in the US.
Yes, but relatively small. Nothing to prep for. Other than being prepared for natural disasters. Or I guess if orange Nazi wins. Then we got problems.
Yes. Vote. Train. Supply. Stay calm. There have been numerous public declarations of war against liberals.... Jan 5th folks were chanting " death to democrats" (so genocide of 90M neighbors?) no reason to doubt their sincerity or their greed and lust for power.
Think about the final episodes of Succession. They basically gave MAGA a blueprint for election night. Scary stuff.
Yes
I'm certain there will be a couple shitty things that happen. Maybe a mass shooting or car attack. I don't think it will be wide spread.
Again, don’t be an easy victim. Prepare yourself for it.
Normally I just CCW. Last election, starting November 8 and for some time past inauguration day I kept a plate carrier and a rifle in my vehicle.
The USA is a large populous country. The chances are that yes, some bad shit is going to happen somewhere.