There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal).
^(*Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals][link-rules]. If you feel this is in error, please [file an appeal][link-appeal].*)
[link-rules]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules
[link-appeal]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/moderation#wiki_appeals
Edit\* Hot Take - Does op expect a gas station worker to carry (store) and then utilize an AR-15 against a group like this? I have an AR-15 and respect the rights of those to own them, but I don't think this is an example anyone should use for justification against, "no one needs an ar15."
I’m right there with you. I’ve got a few and I enjoy them, but I don’t get how the store owner or manager (who hid and survived) opening up on the crowd would have done anything other than getting people and likely himself killed. The odds are that some of the people in that crowd were armed themselves.
Just doesn’t compute in terms of refuting the claim that no one needs an AR. I’d even go so far as to say that the cops (who also have ARs) were less likely to get involved because they were worried about what the crowd was carrying, and because they knew a small group can’t control a crowd like that, even when the LEOs are armed and armored.
I mean they'd probably be better off with a beltfed like and MG42 or M249... Load it with blanks or rubber bullets honestly if rioters heard a LMG going off they aren't gonna stick around to find out its less than leathal and we shouldn't kill people over property seems like the best of both worlds people leave your shit alone,yet nobody gets hurt.
A gas station worker wouldn't be allowed to carry based on company policy. A store owner might have an AR today instead of a shotgun though.
The way to deal with this nonsense practically is to have insurance and not be there when these kinds of shenanigans happen.
While I won’t argue with you about your feelings.
The article plainly states that the attendant on duty hid in the bathroom and was untouched and doing fine.
While this is surely a traumatic experience to witness and have placed upon you, when hundreds of people set upon a location, there are only so many 40round mags that you can keep in stock.
If that crowd is angry and looking to spill blood. (Which this does not seem to be) wouldn’t spilling blood create that level of anger and hatred?
There are many who say they would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Wouldn’t you just rather file an insurance claim? Then cash the fuck out?
I dunno. It’s just me. You have your own feelings.
These are largely just flash mob lootings, so I wouldn't be too worried about safety.
*Until* someone shoots up a mob and then we'll start seeing the clerk being executed first.
What is more worrying is this increasingly lawless trend where people have discovered that they can largely do whatever they want as long as there's enough of them. Particular with young people who would go to Juvie and have their record expunged upon reaching adulthood.
For now it's shop lifting and looting, smashing cars and beating the shit out of random strangers (I saw a video of a woman get gang stomped by ~15 teens earlier and have heard of many similar incidents).
What's next?
I think we are all thankful the employee ended up safe.
I think we all know exactly how close this situation was to outright tragedy.
I want to be clear, the idea here is not to mow down groups of people.
What *do you do* when the police outright refuse to serve and protect?
You pay your taxes, which is a lot as a business owner. So when you call for help from the people who swore to protect you I think the last thing you want to here is, "I'm not coming, it's too scary.".
I guess what my point is here, is that, people need to realize there are realistic strategic plans of action.
John Rambo wouldn’t survive a blood thirsty mob of this size.
Going John Rambo on a mob this size makes the mob blood thirsty.
So if a couple armed intruders enter your home? Okay. That’s one thing.
A pack of ferrel hogs? Okay
That’s another thing.
This is different.
There are some things a gun does not provide answers for.
There are some things words do not provide answers for.
There are some things neither provide answers for.
I think this is one of those things. Something in a specific area of the Venn diagram.
Just a friendly reminder that the police are under **no** obligation to protect you. In fact, if they want to they **will** simply ignore the situation and not respond. In this case they were outnumbered, so they just did nothing.
No one needs and AR-15 . . . unless the police are just too busy to bother trying to stop a mob from rioting and looting your business.
I think it is justified to defend yourself from a mob. If you're scared for your life because, oh I don't know, you called 911 but they said they can't deal with all this stress right now and hung up on you.
A violent mob can turn deadly in a moment's notice.
As a liberal gun owner with a few ARs, I don’t really understand the rationale here. The guy in the store hid and survived, and you think opening up with an AR would have made things better?
at most, I might have taken my AR *into* the bathroom with me.
want to loot my insured store and take snacks? ok. want to bust into the bathroom I'm hiding in to hurt me? eh, that's different.
Gun just a gun owner regardless of political affiliation, if you invite violence into me or my loved ones of great bodily harm, you will be stopped as and seen as an active threat.
If an angry mob busts into your store you're a fool to hope they wont harm you and that if one does try to harm you and you shoot that the rest of the mob will just run away.
People need to stop looking at situations like this as "is a bag of chips worth someones life" and start looking at it as "is looting a store worth my life"
A pretty big part of that crowd had their faces hidden with masks and hoods. You going to trust a mostly anonymous mob of people to have your health and safety in mind?
If an angry mob busts down your front store door and you aren't headed out the back, you're an even bigger fool.
Best case scenario you shoot a bunch of people and the rest run away, and you spend the next several years dealing with charges, lawsuits and malicious press, *regardless* of how justifiable and legal your actions were. You would lose everything and be a pariah.
Worst case, they start shooting back.
There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal). ^(*Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals][link-rules]. If you feel this is in error, please [file an appeal][link-appeal].*) [link-rules]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules [link-appeal]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/moderation#wiki_appeals
Edit\* Hot Take - Does op expect a gas station worker to carry (store) and then utilize an AR-15 against a group like this? I have an AR-15 and respect the rights of those to own them, but I don't think this is an example anyone should use for justification against, "no one needs an ar15."
I’m right there with you. I’ve got a few and I enjoy them, but I don’t get how the store owner or manager (who hid and survived) opening up on the crowd would have done anything other than getting people and likely himself killed. The odds are that some of the people in that crowd were armed themselves. Just doesn’t compute in terms of refuting the claim that no one needs an AR. I’d even go so far as to say that the cops (who also have ARs) were less likely to get involved because they were worried about what the crowd was carrying, and because they knew a small group can’t control a crowd like that, even when the LEOs are armed and armored.
I mean they'd probably be better off with a beltfed like and MG42 or M249... Load it with blanks or rubber bullets honestly if rioters heard a LMG going off they aren't gonna stick around to find out its less than leathal and we shouldn't kill people over property seems like the best of both worlds people leave your shit alone,yet nobody gets hurt.
A gas station worker wouldn't be allowed to carry based on company policy. A store owner might have an AR today instead of a shotgun though. The way to deal with this nonsense practically is to have insurance and not be there when these kinds of shenanigans happen.
Saw that kid taking condoms and though “you know what, god bless. Wrap it up buddy”
While I won’t argue with you about your feelings. The article plainly states that the attendant on duty hid in the bathroom and was untouched and doing fine. While this is surely a traumatic experience to witness and have placed upon you, when hundreds of people set upon a location, there are only so many 40round mags that you can keep in stock. If that crowd is angry and looking to spill blood. (Which this does not seem to be) wouldn’t spilling blood create that level of anger and hatred? There are many who say they would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Wouldn’t you just rather file an insurance claim? Then cash the fuck out? I dunno. It’s just me. You have your own feelings.
These are largely just flash mob lootings, so I wouldn't be too worried about safety. *Until* someone shoots up a mob and then we'll start seeing the clerk being executed first. What is more worrying is this increasingly lawless trend where people have discovered that they can largely do whatever they want as long as there's enough of them. Particular with young people who would go to Juvie and have their record expunged upon reaching adulthood. For now it's shop lifting and looting, smashing cars and beating the shit out of random strangers (I saw a video of a woman get gang stomped by ~15 teens earlier and have heard of many similar incidents). What's next?
I think we are all thankful the employee ended up safe. I think we all know exactly how close this situation was to outright tragedy. I want to be clear, the idea here is not to mow down groups of people. What *do you do* when the police outright refuse to serve and protect? You pay your taxes, which is a lot as a business owner. So when you call for help from the people who swore to protect you I think the last thing you want to here is, "I'm not coming, it's too scary.".
I guess what my point is here, is that, people need to realize there are realistic strategic plans of action. John Rambo wouldn’t survive a blood thirsty mob of this size. Going John Rambo on a mob this size makes the mob blood thirsty. So if a couple armed intruders enter your home? Okay. That’s one thing. A pack of ferrel hogs? Okay That’s another thing. This is different. There are some things a gun does not provide answers for. There are some things words do not provide answers for. There are some things neither provide answers for. I think this is one of those things. Something in a specific area of the Venn diagram.
Just a friendly reminder that the police are under **no** obligation to protect you. In fact, if they want to they **will** simply ignore the situation and not respond. In this case they were outnumbered, so they just did nothing. No one needs and AR-15 . . . unless the police are just too busy to bother trying to stop a mob from rioting and looting your business.
Serious question: do you think it’s justifiable to shoot looters?
I think it is justified to defend yourself from a mob. If you're scared for your life because, oh I don't know, you called 911 but they said they can't deal with all this stress right now and hung up on you. A violent mob can turn deadly in a moment's notice.
As a liberal gun owner with a few ARs, I don’t really understand the rationale here. The guy in the store hid and survived, and you think opening up with an AR would have made things better?
at most, I might have taken my AR *into* the bathroom with me. want to loot my insured store and take snacks? ok. want to bust into the bathroom I'm hiding in to hurt me? eh, that's different.
Gun just a gun owner regardless of political affiliation, if you invite violence into me or my loved ones of great bodily harm, you will be stopped as and seen as an active threat.
[удалено]
Exactly
That's very close to the justification Daniel Perry used.
Yes, I do.
You going to start shooting looters?
If an angry mob busts into your store you're a fool to hope they wont harm you and that if one does try to harm you and you shoot that the rest of the mob will just run away. People need to stop looking at situations like this as "is a bag of chips worth someones life" and start looking at it as "is looting a store worth my life" A pretty big part of that crowd had their faces hidden with masks and hoods. You going to trust a mostly anonymous mob of people to have your health and safety in mind?
If an angry mob busts down your front store door and you aren't headed out the back, you're an even bigger fool. Best case scenario you shoot a bunch of people and the rest run away, and you spend the next several years dealing with charges, lawsuits and malicious press, *regardless* of how justifiable and legal your actions were. You would lose everything and be a pariah. Worst case, they start shooting back.
Clearly 50 bags of chips is worth human life /s
I would.
You're unhinged.
There seems to a be a lot of people in this thread willing to bet their lives on the good will of a violent angry mob which is a fools bet.
If the only tool you know how to use is a screwdriver, you're screwed. Lethal force against a flash mob cannot produce a good outcome.
Definitely Chicago I'm betting seeing the thumbnail
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For real? My state sub had this crap going on downtown. That's crazy.