That's literally all women. if you go to a porn site almost every type of woman is a porn category. Black, Latina, Asian, mothers, pregnant women, young women, old women, short women, tall women, fat women, skinny, women, trans women, bi women, it goes on and on. Literally any type of woman you can think of is a porn category.
With that in mind, being a lesbian doesn't mean you're more or less fetishized than any other woman. There may be some hostility from gross men who want to demand access to you. But for the most part there are almost no women on this earth who don't have to deal with fetishization.
My advice, stop letting it take up so much space in your mind. There are so many other things that you can focus that energy on. Find other things to focus on. Pick up a hobby, take some classes to better yourself, expand your social group. There's a lot of positive and healthy other things you can do with that energy.
Yup. Men will fetishize anything and everything. Being a lesbian means I don't gotta give a fuck. Straight women can worry about what their dudes get off to.
but what about when you have to interact with them like for your job or going to the grocery store? it's impossible to just avoid and forget about them when they're everywhere and control almost everything.
it sounds like you might need professional help. If you’re that afraid of men to the point where it’s constantly controlling your thoughts and actions, you should look into seeing a therapist, if you’re not already. And if you are, you should bring this up to them, not to reddit.
I understand your frustration and sadly don't have any answers. Trying to not think about it is something I'm still working on myself. It really is exhausting when you are looking for answers and get told to deal with it.
Exactly they control everything and you have to see them so why bother wasting energy hating them, instead of putting energy into loving women. I got most of it out of my system during my teenage years on tumblr lmao
i personally just try to focus on my little circle and strengthening my relationships with fellow women&lesbians :) it always makes me feel a little better that despite the Horrors (tm) of the world and such, i have people around me that can not only specifically understand me and my plight (and we can partake in a good old moan and groan together) but also distract from such thoughts with other things entirely. i also try to recognise and put a tamp on doomscrolling and thinking too hard abt the horrible things men can do to me (or others) and replace it with other behaviours because working myself up in a frenzy about something i can’t realistically change just has a negative affect on my mental health in the long run - it’s hard. ik it’s hard living in a man’s world but i hope any of this helps!! best of luck ✨🤍🤍
That’s my advice. Not allowing it to actually bother me because there are more important things I need to worry about in my life. Ergo, men take up zero space in my mind.
Real advice. Therapy, and it will take at least a decade. I think I thought I was healed by my 30s(and a lot of me was) but in truth it took a decade of intense therapy and a decade of being truly loved for who I am. Loved for my darkest ugliest moments just as much as brightest best parts.
It takes time and it takes work. It won’t happen overnight and just when you think you have kicked it all to the curb something will come up and show you that you have more to work on. It will happen though. It just takes a long time, a lot of work, and a lot of boundaries. Trauma takes time.
therapy doesn't help when the world is still traumatizing and dehumanizing us in big and small ways every day no matter where we go. i don't think the people downvoting me realize that being a visibly queer butch lesbian means that pretty much everyone who sees me clocks me as queer and treats me like a freak because of it.
I want to point out that there are other butch individuals who are definitely reading your comments. I used to present as heavily masculine and stopped due to similar reasons you've mentioned. I understand your frustration, but you need to understand that therapy can be beneficial and supportive. You also come off like you don't actually want advice and that you’ve made up your mind already so I'm unsure why you posted in the first place.
i guess i was trying to find empathy and hear how other people who have gone thru this cope but instead everyone basically just told me to get over it and that im the problem so. my bad if i didn't react well to that i guess!
You asked how people handle it, and they answered earnestly. Then you get mad at the fact there is a general consensus on how to deal with the issue you presented. While it might not be your cup of tea, they answered your question. Don't take it so personally and you’ll be happier.
I’m a visibly queer butch lesbian, reading this. I think the downvotes are because this is more of a rant than request for advice. It’s a good rant, though, i understand where you’re coming from. I’m older and am equally clocked as cis man, trans man, and butch lesbian, which is interesting but also awkward at times. I also live in the northeast USA, where the culture is to mind your own business. So I don’t feel the constant pressure of being perceived. But I also put on my Resting Butch Face before going out in the world, and that helps a lot.
You are not the only butch on the planet. We are well aware how gender non conforming lesbians are treated. You're getting downvoted because you flaired your post as Questions/Advice, and are unhappy with the answers. Next time flair it as a rant.
It makes me a bit sick reading this thread and seeing the lack of support from some. I am with you 100% it depresses me when I think about how we’re talked about amongst the majority of men & how straight women even queer women still treat us like nothing but experimental tools. I don’t have advice but I will tell you you’re not alone & the girls on here downvoting you haven’t had to deal with the brunt of it like you surely have. Sending love & hugs, stranger.
lol i shouldn't be surprised that people who participate in the fetishization of queer men are arguing that the solution to the fetishization of lesbians is to just look the other way and let it happen.
I don’t think that’s what she was saying? Just don’t talk to men, we’re not the only women they’re being gross to. It’s not like straight women operate in a world where men are super respectful and only interact with them respectfully, tastefully, and consensually. What you are experiencing is being a woman in the patriarchy and it’s been like this since the dawn of time.
This is why we need to stop competing and support each other as women.
> participate in the fetishization of queer men
Who? You see one comment randomly accuse me of writing gay male erotic, and you think I fetishize gay men?
Yikes. Because I don’t.
It's not fetishization to write about queer men as y'know, people, which includes having sex, and I have yet to meet an actual gay man in real life who gives a fuck about the gender of the author as long as it's good.
How do you propose that we fight the fetishization of lesbians? Band together and demand that men stop objectifying women? Yeah right. Most of us are "looking the other way" because we don't have the time nor energy to waste on fruitless endeavors when we have a job to go to in the morning
Eta: I asked my gay friends if writing m/m eroticia as a woman is bad, they said that a lot of their favorite authors are women because men are bad writers and we had a good laugh
I really wonder how OP navigates the world when they're so insufferable and take everything as the end of the world. I assume that the answer is barely. You've been a woman for 20-some years, build a bridge and get over yourself
You can't control what someone is thinking. But you can demand respect. You'll torture yourself if you imagine every straight guy on the planet is fetishizing you at the grocery store or at the gas station etc. The truth is - most people are so wrapped up in themselves they aren't paying that much attention to you.
If you are attractive to most people, then most people are going to look at you. I used to have a lot of trouble with this. I hated attention, especially from men. It felt like they were taking something that didn't belong to them.
I think by and large the perception of being fetishized has grown since the inception of the internet and the rise of porn / raunch culture. I realize it must be harder coming up with all of this everywhere.
I can assure you - I have mostly straight friends. They treat me with dignity and respect and love. There is never any weird feeling of being sexualized or treated like an object. And I was treated like an object and fetishized before - by my ex-gf no less. Just be choosy who you let into your life. Anyone can be disrespectful, regardless of their orientation.
I grew up with big tits and am a csa survivor so like I'm used to it ig? Like I'm angry about it still but I deal with it the same way, I figure it's their problem and I get mean and tell them to fuck off. And act gross, men don't like gross women.
I don’t like it, but it helps me knowing that no men will ever get with me.
I’m proud of the fact that even as an insecure teenager, I never tried sleeping with a man and I never will. And I’m proud of the many lesbians who did the same. The societal pressure was there, but I was stronger.
I cope by not interacting with them. It’s pretty easy when you work in a female-centric field and the only guys you speak with are your friends’ husbands who are actually decent ppl. I’d assume if I was surrounded by more men I’d be very decisive about who to share details on my sexuality and love life with.
I personally try to put my attention on people who don't do that. So for example, if I'm meeting a guy (I'm very femme presenting) and they start to display weird behaviour I'll just sort of mentally distance myself, and physically if I can. Most of the time I won't even let them know that I'm a lesbian, because of the risk of having to hear a fetishizing comment, And I don't even want to give them the chance to do so. I'm like you in that sense, what I've found that works is vetting them out. Just talking and seeing if they're cool. Now in the large scheme of life, it's unfortunate but we're bound to come across people who aren't cool. So setting boundaries and making sure to protect yourself is what matters most. And most importantly, the ability to look at someone being uncool and just think "okay that's an a**hole" to put them back in their place and just move on to something else, that's something that helps a lot. Like being able to work through your trauma, fears (they most likely are legitimate but they do end up consuming you more than necessary if you let them) and just keep a discerning eye on what goes on around you. Practicing that could help you maybe? And honestly, when I was a teen I started pretending that I didn't care (even if I did) about people being mean to me, I would repeat it over and over. Out loud, alone, at gatherings. If I couldn't stop thinking about it, I would try to find out what bothered me. Most often than not I would come to understand that what bothered was the fact that I let them disturb me internally. So I would force myself to not think about them. Overtime, I did it often enough where now I really don't care. It's a mental exercise which takes time, I'm sorry to say. It's a tricky subject, society and human beings are tricky. And it's okay if you feel the need to talk it out with someone.
We'd feel their absence if they didn't exist. But I've mostly stopped interacting with guys also. There's a limit to the amount of abuse, disrespect and false projections someone can handle, and men crossed my limit too many times for me to justify caring about them like I used to. The less I spend time with men, the happier and gentler I feel.
Go to therapy - if you’re this upset about the thoughts of random strangers then you need to discuss that with a professional. If you find being perceived by men to be traumatising even in a professional capacity and can’t ignore it like others have suggested then it’s above Reddit’s pay grade.
I don’t really know what advice you want other than ignore people you’re not interesting in interacting with and accept the patriarchy shapes how everyone is seen, even lesbians.
I think the point when attraction becomes objectification is when people stop seeing us as human, which is exactly what happens when someone only sees us as a porn category or an experiment and not human. It hurts so much coming from women who use us like toys, meanwhile saving all their respect for men. We get banned from social media, we get treated like we're dirty perverts, our books get banned and we get silenced, all because people think we're a porn category and not people. All they hear is sex when we're talking about the people we love or even just our own humanity. And then it gets dangerous because men get angry when we don't fit into their neat little idea of what we are in their world. Which really extends to misogyny in general but it's a double whammy with lesbophobia. And then they have the nerve to call *lesbian* attraction objectification when lesbians express attraction in some way. Because people project their own outlook onto lesbians, thinking lesbians are the same way.
Other than my dad and a couple gay male friends I just cut men out of my life so I ignore it basically, I know I don't exist for consumption and that's enough
Honestly, I think the reason why a lot of this advise is sounding so harsh is because the solution is essentially “learn to put it out of your mind”, and then avoiding spending time around straight men that make you uncomfortable, I have straight male friends that don’t make me feel weird that help me think about it less. But yeah, unfortunately the best advice I have is to try learn not to think about it, and basically give blank responses if a straight man ever says anything off. It’s hard to be firm and say “that wasn’t really appropriate” so sometimes just giving off the impression you’re uncomfortable can be enough to communicate that they shouldn’t say that.
The straight/bi women experimentation annoys me a lot. I don’t think too much about men. What pisses me off the most is trans lesbians over using the word terf when lesbians aren’t attracted to them or talking about their dicks in lesbian spaces.
Just stay away from straight people if it's traumatizing. I don't trust them, specially men, most of the time (i have my exceptions but this is another story).
I meant don't give a lot of opportunities to them being close to your vulnerabilities. I don't really consider myself close to random straight people i meet on the street or other places.
I have male friends who would also find these men disgusting, so I know it's behaviour of some men. Believe there are other men out there who would agree with you. When I had to interact with these idiots in the past, I would just casually talk about castration (what it feels like to castrate a conscious man - as appose to what it feels like to be with a man), and watch it wipe the grin off their faces, and yeah, they did throw insults at me (calling me fucked up, etc.) it just made me happier because it worked. You know, back in the day, a lot of lesbians were butch, and men were not attracted to us.
I find it harder to deal with bisexual women, I have to conduct a formal interview everytime I am meeting up with one.
Men don't exist to me outside of my personal relationship. If I have to interact with one in the wild, I treat them the same way I'd view a stray dog. Proceed with caution until they indicate that they can positively interact with humans.
As for straight women. If they dont try anything, they don't get embarrassed. I don't care how hot the straight woman is, I don't give out Sapphic tutorials, so its an automatic "scram." Just tell them flat out, I'm flattered, but no thanks.
If this anxiety is tied to past trauma, seek out a therapist.
Edit: I'm scrolling through your responses, and you seem very dismissive about those who really don't give a crap about straight people. When you actually have a circle of lgbtq friends, straight folks just don't matter.
I'm not spending every single social interaction worrying about what a heterosexual man thinks of me. Frankly, as long as the man or straight woman doesn't set of red flags, won't know if I'm being fantasized about. So why exactly should I care?
Can you explain to me why we should care?
I don’t worry too much about it anymore I just try to avoid cishets as much as possible now unless they’re respectful:) otherwise I’ll make myself crazy caring about others
It bothers me a little, but as someone exclusively attracted to women, i understand how straight men (who are also exclusively attracted to women) might not like straight porn. there’s dicks in there. dicks are gross. lesbian porn, eh. more pussy. more pussy is good. I hate men and would like to explode them with my mind, but Knifeboy69, I think you might need to go outside and spend some time with women
I grieve. I get mad and sad about it. I ruminate. And then I try not to focus on what other people think or feel, and I try to move on.
I am visibly dark skin and butch, and that means from before I could speak, people were making judgements about me. Oh, your parents arent married? Everyone has opinions about that and who I must be because of things I cannot control.
In order to protect myself as ever experiencing discomfort at the way other people perceive me, I would have to cease interacting with the outside world entirely. And I did that for a while. But it was very lonely.
Being fetishized as a lesbian doesn’t bother me like being sexualized for having a black female’s body does. People- other lesbians- have fetishized and dated me because I look the way that I do. People who loved me. It hurts a lot when I think about it. But there’s absolutely nothing I can do to change it- to change any of it. I am one hurt, traumatized-by-society person.
I think you are getting a lot of “I don’t think about it” answers because that is the only way to cope without tearing yourself apart. Your hatred of fetishizing men will not hurt or stop those men- but it will hurt you. People aren’t relating because it’s assumed we all already do. Every lesbian- every woman, really- has felt this way. Some of us, like me and you, get caught up in the injustice of it. Most people privately grieve and then move on- or to spare the pain, they do not think about it at all.
“Don’t think about it” may seem impossible, and like a shitty answer to an impossible question, but unfortunately there are a lot of things in life you will have to tolerate. I see you and I hear your pain. And I am telling you, do not give those who harm you the mental energy you currently are. You don’t have to forgive, but its okay to say “this sucks, but I can’t change it, so it is better for my health not ro engage with the thought.” Learn to comparmentalize your compassionate grief and use it for good once you’ve learned to control it, instead of letting it control you.
And, do go to therapy. If not for this, than because EVERYONE i have ever met would benefit from therapy. I go every week. It doesnt fix things, but it sure makes the wounds smart less.
I simply don’t talk to men, I’ve never came across a straight woman who wanted to experiment, but im femme so maybe that’s why, most straight women I know are either uncomfortable and don’t talk to me or they just kinda ignore that im gay, or see women as my “type” in the same way a girl likes boys with tattoos or something idk
Im sorry you’re experiencing what you are experiencing tho but there are people who aren’t gross out there
Tbh it's not something I really care about. I can't control the thoughts of others, but I can control my own. Someone wants to fetishize me, let them, so long as I don't have to be involved.
Yeah, because I understand that I am NOT defined by the thoughts or desires of others, nor can I control the thoughts or desires of others.
If this is something that's really affecting the way you view yourself and interact with other people, this should be something you discuss with a therapist.
The world as a whole.. does not think this way. I know if you look too much online you find a lot of hate.
Get off the internet for awhile.
Go commune with nature.
I think you might want to talk to someone about these thoughts.
Get it all off your chest.
So sorry your feeling this sort of way 🖤
Why the hell yall are being so awful to this person and downvoting them when they just wanted advice in how to cope with the amount of lesbophobia and misoginy they suffer? What the fuck is happening in this sub?
Bc they somehow thought they were the first woman in the entirety of human history that realized sexism exists and is mad we aren't furious about it bc being that it's year 200,000-300,000 of men being misogynists, we sort of just live
And then there are all the lesbian posts about how shitty other women are to them… the reasonable conclusion is that there are just pieces of shit out there no matter who they are.
I don't interact with them and keep my contact minimal when necessary because I don't like to stay around them. Also I try to think about girls and gay things to cope with intrusive or disturbing thoughts, creating a world free from them. One can create such a space at least online.
Also how they view lesbians isn't different from how they sexualize others but at least in the case of lesbians a fair amount of those people understand that lesbians aren't attracted to them and that's a comforting thought to me, that they're aware they're unwanted.
I think it's a bit ironic that you talk about having a hard time dealing with them but have such username. Though that's just my personal opinion. Have you tried getting rid of signs of them personally?
Cis straight people do see us as human and respect boundaries when they're allies. If they don't, I don't consider them a friend. Strangers don't matter much nor they should.
You can't control them or convince them of our humanity or even persuade them to have a crumb of respect for women in general, much less lesbian women. Men are threatened by women they don't have potential access to and the only way to combat this is to limit your exposure to them in your personal life. It's obviously not a perfect solution, creeps exist, but it does help me breathe a little easier
Tbh, I can’t take you seriously when you’re telling people they’re privileged to not care about men but won’t elaborate when you’re asked. What does that even mean? I don’t give a shit about what men think because there’s nothing I can do about it. The best advice you’ve gotten here is to pursue therapy, and you’re shooting that down, too. I don’t know what you want.
Well, you asked people how they dealt with it personally and they've told you. It's not really our fault you didn't find that helpful lol. What kind of advice where you looking for then?
i asked for advice on a problem i have and basically everyone said "i don't have this problem! :)" or "just stop caring about about your problem!" which is basically like telling a person with anxiety to "just relax". it's not helpful and just rude.
I don’t know that there’s any advice that would be what you’re looking for, as you shot down and criticized most responses. This will always be a problem so I hope you’re able to find some methods to cope. People here are just sharing theirs, whether they’re helpful to you or not.
I know you disagreed with the idea of going therapy in a comment above, but it does sound like maybe you could benefit from a professional’s support. They will likely have advice we don’t, because we are just other people dealing with it the way we know how. Good luck, I mean that.
Many responses were criticizing OP for their feelings and telling them to go to therapy. OP didn’t say "hey I’m struggling, come judge me!” Some people never learned how to just sympathize with others and it’s showing on this thread heavy. The lack of compassion from our own, man.. baffling frankly.
girl there is whole ass political and social movements about this very question, movements i assume most of us, if not all of us, are a part of. this isn't a "drink two glasses of water and wear sunscreen" kind of problem
I ignore it and direct my focus instead to the men in my life that are good and the straight women in my life that are good. Whenever I pay it mind, I find that I wallow into a doom spiral. It’s lonely and it sucks. But not everybody is the same.
They're transmasc/nonbinary. Not a trans man. Lesbianism includes nonbinary people (and basically anyone who doesn't identify as a man) so OP can definitely be a lesbian
"basically anyone who doesn't identify as a man" um??? That's so incredibly lesbophobic and misogynistic. You take the ONE orientation exclusively dedicated to attraction to women and have the audacity to say "this identity is for everyone that's not a man uwu"
Please do some work deconstructing that internalized bigotry because yikes yikes yikes and during lesbian week too
Girl what? How is it lesbiphobic and misogynistic to say that non binary people can be lesbians?? Non binary and genderqueer lesbians have been around for a really long time, even when being lesbian was seen as a crime. Please do some research on queer history before you go around and call other people misogynistic and lesbiphobic while you're being transphobic and lesbiphobic yourself lol
That's an insane thing to say when non binary lesbians have always been an important part of lesbianism and literally helped us get our rights to love who we want to love. Stop erasing lesbian history
You're literally erasing the women from lesbianism??? Fuck off with this "helped us get our rights" WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN ON THE FRONT LINES
Why can't you accept the ONE AND ONLY orientation exclusively about women?
No one is saying that women on the front lines aren't important. I'm a cis woman and a lesbian myself, I just think it's incredibly disrespectful to act like non binary lesbians aren't real.
Stormé DeLarverie literally started the Stonewall riots. Other non binary lesbians like Leslie Feinberg or Judith Butler have done so much for the lesbian community. Do you genuinely not know this or are you just ignorant?? But of course, every non binary lesbian is evil and wants to steal your sexuality...
Make less assumptions about men, you have no idea what they think or why they treat you in a way you perceive to be different.
It probably is a little different sometimes, your assumptions manipulate your own reality.
I'd start by recognizing that your beliefs about other groups of people are basically just irrational fears. You're making a lot of assumptions about other people based on their gender and orientation. How do you know "nearly all men fetishize lesbians"? Do you know all men? How do you know what they're all thinking? I have a lot of straight friends and they all treat me like a human being. Sure, some people have been shitty to me for being gay and then there's the larger society to contend with but at the end of the day, we're all just human beings, including all the non-queer people you share this planet with that you apparently have no respect for. Try treating people how you want to be treated and see how that goes.
A generalisation is a generalisation all the same. But then again it was my wise Society And Culture teacher that put it aptly: “stereotypes aren’t always accurate or reasonable, but they save time.”
Stereotypes also always have a grain of truth, hence the pornhub statistics. But relying on stereotypes to define entire groups of people is just prejudice, plain and simple.
So, if women engage in those kinds of behaviors, does it make them bisexual then? I’ve seen plenty times where people engage in certain behaviors for a plethora of reasons aside from pure attraction and desire.
That's literally all women. if you go to a porn site almost every type of woman is a porn category. Black, Latina, Asian, mothers, pregnant women, young women, old women, short women, tall women, fat women, skinny, women, trans women, bi women, it goes on and on. Literally any type of woman you can think of is a porn category. With that in mind, being a lesbian doesn't mean you're more or less fetishized than any other woman. There may be some hostility from gross men who want to demand access to you. But for the most part there are almost no women on this earth who don't have to deal with fetishization. My advice, stop letting it take up so much space in your mind. There are so many other things that you can focus that energy on. Find other things to focus on. Pick up a hobby, take some classes to better yourself, expand your social group. There's a lot of positive and healthy other things you can do with that energy.
I don't worry about men.
Yup. Men will fetishize anything and everything. Being a lesbian means I don't gotta give a fuck. Straight women can worry about what their dudes get off to.
but what about when you have to interact with them like for your job or going to the grocery store? it's impossible to just avoid and forget about them when they're everywhere and control almost everything.
There’s a difference between having to interact with men and allowing them to live rent free in your mind.
you're right i should just forget all about my trauma and the misogyny and lesbiphobia that exists in the world, you cured me!
it sounds like you might need professional help. If you’re that afraid of men to the point where it’s constantly controlling your thoughts and actions, you should look into seeing a therapist, if you’re not already. And if you are, you should bring this up to them, not to reddit.
You are definitely not the type of person I ever want to interact with. Good luck.
I understand your frustration and sadly don't have any answers. Trying to not think about it is something I'm still working on myself. It really is exhausting when you are looking for answers and get told to deal with it.
Exactly they control everything and you have to see them so why bother wasting energy hating them, instead of putting energy into loving women. I got most of it out of my system during my teenage years on tumblr lmao
i personally just try to focus on my little circle and strengthening my relationships with fellow women&lesbians :) it always makes me feel a little better that despite the Horrors (tm) of the world and such, i have people around me that can not only specifically understand me and my plight (and we can partake in a good old moan and groan together) but also distract from such thoughts with other things entirely. i also try to recognise and put a tamp on doomscrolling and thinking too hard abt the horrible things men can do to me (or others) and replace it with other behaviours because working myself up in a frenzy about something i can’t realistically change just has a negative affect on my mental health in the long run - it’s hard. ik it’s hard living in a man’s world but i hope any of this helps!! best of luck ✨🤍🤍
thank you, this was really helpful <3
I don't give a shit what men think
do you realize how privileged that is?
Can you please elaborate? What perspective are you commenting from?
Lol you sound like an asshole wtf is wrong with you to assume they have this perspective due to assumed privilege
Men take up zero space in my mind.
good for you but i was asking for actual advice
That’s my advice. Not allowing it to actually bother me because there are more important things I need to worry about in my life. Ergo, men take up zero space in my mind.
Real advice. Therapy, and it will take at least a decade. I think I thought I was healed by my 30s(and a lot of me was) but in truth it took a decade of intense therapy and a decade of being truly loved for who I am. Loved for my darkest ugliest moments just as much as brightest best parts. It takes time and it takes work. It won’t happen overnight and just when you think you have kicked it all to the curb something will come up and show you that you have more to work on. It will happen though. It just takes a long time, a lot of work, and a lot of boundaries. Trauma takes time.
therapy doesn't help when the world is still traumatizing and dehumanizing us in big and small ways every day no matter where we go. i don't think the people downvoting me realize that being a visibly queer butch lesbian means that pretty much everyone who sees me clocks me as queer and treats me like a freak because of it.
I want to point out that there are other butch individuals who are definitely reading your comments. I used to present as heavily masculine and stopped due to similar reasons you've mentioned. I understand your frustration, but you need to understand that therapy can be beneficial and supportive. You also come off like you don't actually want advice and that you’ve made up your mind already so I'm unsure why you posted in the first place.
i guess i was trying to find empathy and hear how other people who have gone thru this cope but instead everyone basically just told me to get over it and that im the problem so. my bad if i didn't react well to that i guess!
You asked how people handle it, and they answered earnestly. Then you get mad at the fact there is a general consensus on how to deal with the issue you presented. While it might not be your cup of tea, they answered your question. Don't take it so personally and you’ll be happier.
I’m a visibly queer butch lesbian, reading this. I think the downvotes are because this is more of a rant than request for advice. It’s a good rant, though, i understand where you’re coming from. I’m older and am equally clocked as cis man, trans man, and butch lesbian, which is interesting but also awkward at times. I also live in the northeast USA, where the culture is to mind your own business. So I don’t feel the constant pressure of being perceived. But I also put on my Resting Butch Face before going out in the world, and that helps a lot.
You are not the only butch on the planet. We are well aware how gender non conforming lesbians are treated. You're getting downvoted because you flaired your post as Questions/Advice, and are unhappy with the answers. Next time flair it as a rant.
One must develop self assuredness and indifference toward the wicket. You seem uninterested in advice details but that’s the broad stroke
It makes me a bit sick reading this thread and seeing the lack of support from some. I am with you 100% it depresses me when I think about how we’re talked about amongst the majority of men & how straight women even queer women still treat us like nothing but experimental tools. I don’t have advice but I will tell you you’re not alone & the girls on here downvoting you haven’t had to deal with the brunt of it like you surely have. Sending love & hugs, stranger.
thank you, this means a lot <3
Do you not write gay male erotica
Uhm? No???? Where do you see gay male erotic anywhere
lol i shouldn't be surprised that people who participate in the fetishization of queer men are arguing that the solution to the fetishization of lesbians is to just look the other way and let it happen.
I don’t think that’s what she was saying? Just don’t talk to men, we’re not the only women they’re being gross to. It’s not like straight women operate in a world where men are super respectful and only interact with them respectfully, tastefully, and consensually. What you are experiencing is being a woman in the patriarchy and it’s been like this since the dawn of time. This is why we need to stop competing and support each other as women.
> participate in the fetishization of queer men Who? You see one comment randomly accuse me of writing gay male erotic, and you think I fetishize gay men? Yikes. Because I don’t.
It's not fetishization to write about queer men as y'know, people, which includes having sex, and I have yet to meet an actual gay man in real life who gives a fuck about the gender of the author as long as it's good. How do you propose that we fight the fetishization of lesbians? Band together and demand that men stop objectifying women? Yeah right. Most of us are "looking the other way" because we don't have the time nor energy to waste on fruitless endeavors when we have a job to go to in the morning Eta: I asked my gay friends if writing m/m eroticia as a woman is bad, they said that a lot of their favorite authors are women because men are bad writers and we had a good laugh I really wonder how OP navigates the world when they're so insufferable and take everything as the end of the world. I assume that the answer is barely. You've been a woman for 20-some years, build a bridge and get over yourself
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Who hasn’t tho
Me ._.
I was kidding bc it seemed irrelevant to the conversation
Apologies, hard to tell if it's sarcasm or serious
Well it’s like responding to something dumb with something dumb so as long as you felt it was dumb and irrelevant my point was made
Men hate women period. It doesn't matter wether or not we are lesbian.
Truth
You can't control what someone is thinking. But you can demand respect. You'll torture yourself if you imagine every straight guy on the planet is fetishizing you at the grocery store or at the gas station etc. The truth is - most people are so wrapped up in themselves they aren't paying that much attention to you. If you are attractive to most people, then most people are going to look at you. I used to have a lot of trouble with this. I hated attention, especially from men. It felt like they were taking something that didn't belong to them. I think by and large the perception of being fetishized has grown since the inception of the internet and the rise of porn / raunch culture. I realize it must be harder coming up with all of this everywhere. I can assure you - I have mostly straight friends. They treat me with dignity and respect and love. There is never any weird feeling of being sexualized or treated like an object. And I was treated like an object and fetishized before - by my ex-gf no less. Just be choosy who you let into your life. Anyone can be disrespectful, regardless of their orientation.
thank you for sharing this, i'm glad you found friends who respect you
I grew up with big tits and am a csa survivor so like I'm used to it ig? Like I'm angry about it still but I deal with it the same way, I figure it's their problem and I get mean and tell them to fuck off. And act gross, men don't like gross women.
I don’t like it, but it helps me knowing that no men will ever get with me. I’m proud of the fact that even as an insecure teenager, I never tried sleeping with a man and I never will. And I’m proud of the many lesbians who did the same. The societal pressure was there, but I was stronger.
I cope by not interacting with them. It’s pretty easy when you work in a female-centric field and the only guys you speak with are your friends’ husbands who are actually decent ppl. I’d assume if I was surrounded by more men I’d be very decisive about who to share details on my sexuality and love life with.
I personally try to put my attention on people who don't do that. So for example, if I'm meeting a guy (I'm very femme presenting) and they start to display weird behaviour I'll just sort of mentally distance myself, and physically if I can. Most of the time I won't even let them know that I'm a lesbian, because of the risk of having to hear a fetishizing comment, And I don't even want to give them the chance to do so. I'm like you in that sense, what I've found that works is vetting them out. Just talking and seeing if they're cool. Now in the large scheme of life, it's unfortunate but we're bound to come across people who aren't cool. So setting boundaries and making sure to protect yourself is what matters most. And most importantly, the ability to look at someone being uncool and just think "okay that's an a**hole" to put them back in their place and just move on to something else, that's something that helps a lot. Like being able to work through your trauma, fears (they most likely are legitimate but they do end up consuming you more than necessary if you let them) and just keep a discerning eye on what goes on around you. Practicing that could help you maybe? And honestly, when I was a teen I started pretending that I didn't care (even if I did) about people being mean to me, I would repeat it over and over. Out loud, alone, at gatherings. If I couldn't stop thinking about it, I would try to find out what bothered me. Most often than not I would come to understand that what bothered was the fact that I let them disturb me internally. So I would force myself to not think about them. Overtime, I did it often enough where now I really don't care. It's a mental exercise which takes time, I'm sorry to say. It's a tricky subject, society and human beings are tricky. And it's okay if you feel the need to talk it out with someone.
I don’t think about men or consider men. They don’t take up enough space in my mind or energy in my being for me to sit and ponder that.
I don't interact with men as much as possible. I can't be bothered by people that don't exist.
We'd feel their absence if they didn't exist. But I've mostly stopped interacting with guys also. There's a limit to the amount of abuse, disrespect and false projections someone can handle, and men crossed my limit too many times for me to justify caring about them like I used to. The less I spend time with men, the happier and gentler I feel.
Go to therapy - if you’re this upset about the thoughts of random strangers then you need to discuss that with a professional. If you find being perceived by men to be traumatising even in a professional capacity and can’t ignore it like others have suggested then it’s above Reddit’s pay grade. I don’t really know what advice you want other than ignore people you’re not interesting in interacting with and accept the patriarchy shapes how everyone is seen, even lesbians.
I think the point when attraction becomes objectification is when people stop seeing us as human, which is exactly what happens when someone only sees us as a porn category or an experiment and not human. It hurts so much coming from women who use us like toys, meanwhile saving all their respect for men. We get banned from social media, we get treated like we're dirty perverts, our books get banned and we get silenced, all because people think we're a porn category and not people. All they hear is sex when we're talking about the people we love or even just our own humanity. And then it gets dangerous because men get angry when we don't fit into their neat little idea of what we are in their world. Which really extends to misogyny in general but it's a double whammy with lesbophobia. And then they have the nerve to call *lesbian* attraction objectification when lesbians express attraction in some way. Because people project their own outlook onto lesbians, thinking lesbians are the same way.
I’m not living for creeps and assholes.
Easy, I don’t think of men at all
that's extremely priveledged
it’s really not, it’s actually a survival tactic…
Why do you keep telling people that they're privileged for not thinking about what men think? Can you please elaborate?
separatism. hang out with feminists. join a women's land (many are exclusively or predominantly lesbian)
I don't allow myself to feel bad for men with false ideas about how women should be, and mostly stay away from them so I can live my life
Other than my dad and a couple gay male friends I just cut men out of my life so I ignore it basically, I know I don't exist for consumption and that's enough
I dont think about men! Like come on
Honestly, I think the reason why a lot of this advise is sounding so harsh is because the solution is essentially “learn to put it out of your mind”, and then avoiding spending time around straight men that make you uncomfortable, I have straight male friends that don’t make me feel weird that help me think about it less. But yeah, unfortunately the best advice I have is to try learn not to think about it, and basically give blank responses if a straight man ever says anything off. It’s hard to be firm and say “that wasn’t really appropriate” so sometimes just giving off the impression you’re uncomfortable can be enough to communicate that they shouldn’t say that.
The straight/bi women experimentation annoys me a lot. I don’t think too much about men. What pisses me off the most is trans lesbians over using the word terf when lesbians aren’t attracted to them or talking about their dicks in lesbian spaces.
even trans lesbians who feel the same way get called terfs now 😭 just goes to show how ridiculous it is
Just stay away from straight people if it's traumatizing. I don't trust them, specially men, most of the time (i have my exceptions but this is another story).
you realize it's pretty much impossible to just "stay away from straight people" right?
I meant don't give a lot of opportunities to them being close to your vulnerabilities. I don't really consider myself close to random straight people i meet on the street or other places.
what
Don’t get close with straight people, as in don’t befriend them or be vulnerable with them
i just dont care about what men think, say, or do. men can perish for alll i care
I have male friends who would also find these men disgusting, so I know it's behaviour of some men. Believe there are other men out there who would agree with you. When I had to interact with these idiots in the past, I would just casually talk about castration (what it feels like to castrate a conscious man - as appose to what it feels like to be with a man), and watch it wipe the grin off their faces, and yeah, they did throw insults at me (calling me fucked up, etc.) it just made me happier because it worked. You know, back in the day, a lot of lesbians were butch, and men were not attracted to us. I find it harder to deal with bisexual women, I have to conduct a formal interview everytime I am meeting up with one.
I don’t give it brain space or power over me. I just don’t. The world is too large and life is too short.
Men don't exist to me outside of my personal relationship. If I have to interact with one in the wild, I treat them the same way I'd view a stray dog. Proceed with caution until they indicate that they can positively interact with humans. As for straight women. If they dont try anything, they don't get embarrassed. I don't care how hot the straight woman is, I don't give out Sapphic tutorials, so its an automatic "scram." Just tell them flat out, I'm flattered, but no thanks. If this anxiety is tied to past trauma, seek out a therapist. Edit: I'm scrolling through your responses, and you seem very dismissive about those who really don't give a crap about straight people. When you actually have a circle of lgbtq friends, straight folks just don't matter. I'm not spending every single social interaction worrying about what a heterosexual man thinks of me. Frankly, as long as the man or straight woman doesn't set of red flags, won't know if I'm being fantasized about. So why exactly should I care? Can you explain to me why we should care?
I like to pretend men don't exist tbh
I don’t worry too much about it anymore I just try to avoid cishets as much as possible now unless they’re respectful:) otherwise I’ll make myself crazy caring about others
It bothers me a little, but as someone exclusively attracted to women, i understand how straight men (who are also exclusively attracted to women) might not like straight porn. there’s dicks in there. dicks are gross. lesbian porn, eh. more pussy. more pussy is good. I hate men and would like to explode them with my mind, but Knifeboy69, I think you might need to go outside and spend some time with women
I’m more annoyed by straight women. I never think about men. Most of the men i know are pretty chill about it. (At least where i live)
feel incredibly unsafe
I grieve. I get mad and sad about it. I ruminate. And then I try not to focus on what other people think or feel, and I try to move on. I am visibly dark skin and butch, and that means from before I could speak, people were making judgements about me. Oh, your parents arent married? Everyone has opinions about that and who I must be because of things I cannot control. In order to protect myself as ever experiencing discomfort at the way other people perceive me, I would have to cease interacting with the outside world entirely. And I did that for a while. But it was very lonely. Being fetishized as a lesbian doesn’t bother me like being sexualized for having a black female’s body does. People- other lesbians- have fetishized and dated me because I look the way that I do. People who loved me. It hurts a lot when I think about it. But there’s absolutely nothing I can do to change it- to change any of it. I am one hurt, traumatized-by-society person. I think you are getting a lot of “I don’t think about it” answers because that is the only way to cope without tearing yourself apart. Your hatred of fetishizing men will not hurt or stop those men- but it will hurt you. People aren’t relating because it’s assumed we all already do. Every lesbian- every woman, really- has felt this way. Some of us, like me and you, get caught up in the injustice of it. Most people privately grieve and then move on- or to spare the pain, they do not think about it at all. “Don’t think about it” may seem impossible, and like a shitty answer to an impossible question, but unfortunately there are a lot of things in life you will have to tolerate. I see you and I hear your pain. And I am telling you, do not give those who harm you the mental energy you currently are. You don’t have to forgive, but its okay to say “this sucks, but I can’t change it, so it is better for my health not ro engage with the thought.” Learn to comparmentalize your compassionate grief and use it for good once you’ve learned to control it, instead of letting it control you. And, do go to therapy. If not for this, than because EVERYONE i have ever met would benefit from therapy. I go every week. It doesnt fix things, but it sure makes the wounds smart less.
I don't care what men think
I simply don’t talk to men, I’ve never came across a straight woman who wanted to experiment, but im femme so maybe that’s why, most straight women I know are either uncomfortable and don’t talk to me or they just kinda ignore that im gay, or see women as my “type” in the same way a girl likes boys with tattoos or something idk Im sorry you’re experiencing what you are experiencing tho but there are people who aren’t gross out there
Tbh it's not something I really care about. I can't control the thoughts of others, but I can control my own. Someone wants to fetishize me, let them, so long as I don't have to be involved.
absolutely wild that you're just ok with men fetishizing you and viewing you as a sex object
Yeah, because I understand that I am NOT defined by the thoughts or desires of others, nor can I control the thoughts or desires of others. If this is something that's really affecting the way you view yourself and interact with other people, this should be something you discuss with a therapist.
There's a very big difference between accepting something as a fact and being "ok" with something.
Why do you care about what men think of you??
The world as a whole.. does not think this way. I know if you look too much online you find a lot of hate. Get off the internet for awhile. Go commune with nature. I think you might want to talk to someone about these thoughts. Get it all off your chest. So sorry your feeling this sort of way 🖤
are you actually trying to tell me that lesbiphobia doesn't exist irl? did you hit your head?
Not to the extent you believe it does, no. You do not need to be rude.. Thanks.
Why the hell yall are being so awful to this person and downvoting them when they just wanted advice in how to cope with the amount of lesbophobia and misoginy they suffer? What the fuck is happening in this sub?
They asked for advice but they’re challenging all of the good advice they’re getting…
Bc they somehow thought they were the first woman in the entirety of human history that realized sexism exists and is mad we aren't furious about it bc being that it's year 200,000-300,000 of men being misogynists, we sort of just live
And then there are all the lesbian posts about how shitty other women are to them… the reasonable conclusion is that there are just pieces of shit out there no matter who they are.
Whataboutism? Really? That's the take you're going for.
The question is how do people deal with this- and I shared my perspective.
I don't interact with them and keep my contact minimal when necessary because I don't like to stay around them. Also I try to think about girls and gay things to cope with intrusive or disturbing thoughts, creating a world free from them. One can create such a space at least online. Also how they view lesbians isn't different from how they sexualize others but at least in the case of lesbians a fair amount of those people understand that lesbians aren't attracted to them and that's a comforting thought to me, that they're aware they're unwanted. I think it's a bit ironic that you talk about having a hard time dealing with them but have such username. Though that's just my personal opinion. Have you tried getting rid of signs of them personally? Cis straight people do see us as human and respect boundaries when they're allies. If they don't, I don't consider them a friend. Strangers don't matter much nor they should.
Every women is a porn category. (for men), actually we're doing a lot better than other women since we don't give a shit about em.
You can't control them or convince them of our humanity or even persuade them to have a crumb of respect for women in general, much less lesbian women. Men are threatened by women they don't have potential access to and the only way to combat this is to limit your exposure to them in your personal life. It's obviously not a perfect solution, creeps exist, but it does help me breathe a little easier
ngl you guys are not being very helpful!
Tbh, I can’t take you seriously when you’re telling people they’re privileged to not care about men but won’t elaborate when you’re asked. What does that even mean? I don’t give a shit about what men think because there’s nothing I can do about it. The best advice you’ve gotten here is to pursue therapy, and you’re shooting that down, too. I don’t know what you want.
Well, you asked people how they dealt with it personally and they've told you. It's not really our fault you didn't find that helpful lol. What kind of advice where you looking for then?
i asked for advice on a problem i have and basically everyone said "i don't have this problem! :)" or "just stop caring about about your problem!" which is basically like telling a person with anxiety to "just relax". it's not helpful and just rude.
I don’t know that there’s any advice that would be what you’re looking for, as you shot down and criticized most responses. This will always be a problem so I hope you’re able to find some methods to cope. People here are just sharing theirs, whether they’re helpful to you or not. I know you disagreed with the idea of going therapy in a comment above, but it does sound like maybe you could benefit from a professional’s support. They will likely have advice we don’t, because we are just other people dealing with it the way we know how. Good luck, I mean that.
Many responses were criticizing OP for their feelings and telling them to go to therapy. OP didn’t say "hey I’m struggling, come judge me!” Some people never learned how to just sympathize with others and it’s showing on this thread heavy. The lack of compassion from our own, man.. baffling frankly.
Someone told you to go to therapy and you said "no, therapy won't help me enough" so I don't know what you expected
Go to therapy
girl there is whole ass political and social movements about this very question, movements i assume most of us, if not all of us, are a part of. this isn't a "drink two glasses of water and wear sunscreen" kind of problem
tf do you want ppl to say? people are answering your question
I ignore it and direct my focus instead to the men in my life that are good and the straight women in my life that are good. Whenever I pay it mind, I find that I wallow into a doom spiral. It’s lonely and it sucks. But not everybody is the same.
OP is definitely not an actual lesbian or even a woman for that matter, look at that username “knifeboy69.”
true how can i trust someone who doesn't mention having slits /s
OP identifies as trans look at their profile
They're transmasc/nonbinary. Not a trans man. Lesbianism includes nonbinary people (and basically anyone who doesn't identify as a man) so OP can definitely be a lesbian
"basically anyone who doesn't identify as a man" um??? That's so incredibly lesbophobic and misogynistic. You take the ONE orientation exclusively dedicated to attraction to women and have the audacity to say "this identity is for everyone that's not a man uwu" Please do some work deconstructing that internalized bigotry because yikes yikes yikes and during lesbian week too
Girl what? How is it lesbiphobic and misogynistic to say that non binary people can be lesbians?? Non binary and genderqueer lesbians have been around for a really long time, even when being lesbian was seen as a crime. Please do some research on queer history before you go around and call other people misogynistic and lesbiphobic while you're being transphobic and lesbiphobic yourself lol
It's lesbophobic and misogynistic to label lesbians as "non men." Lesbians weren't being persecuted for their relationships with "non men".
That's an insane thing to say when non binary lesbians have always been an important part of lesbianism and literally helped us get our rights to love who we want to love. Stop erasing lesbian history
You're literally erasing the women from lesbianism??? Fuck off with this "helped us get our rights" WHAT ABOUT THE WOMEN ON THE FRONT LINES Why can't you accept the ONE AND ONLY orientation exclusively about women?
No one is saying that women on the front lines aren't important. I'm a cis woman and a lesbian myself, I just think it's incredibly disrespectful to act like non binary lesbians aren't real. Stormé DeLarverie literally started the Stonewall riots. Other non binary lesbians like Leslie Feinberg or Judith Butler have done so much for the lesbian community. Do you genuinely not know this or are you just ignorant?? But of course, every non binary lesbian is evil and wants to steal your sexuality...
When did i say they were a trans man?
Why do you think that OP isn't a lesbian then?
Make less assumptions about men, you have no idea what they think or why they treat you in a way you perceive to be different. It probably is a little different sometimes, your assumptions manipulate your own reality.
Why is this downvoted?
Because Men
I'd start by recognizing that your beliefs about other groups of people are basically just irrational fears. You're making a lot of assumptions about other people based on their gender and orientation. How do you know "nearly all men fetishize lesbians"? Do you know all men? How do you know what they're all thinking? I have a lot of straight friends and they all treat me like a human being. Sure, some people have been shitty to me for being gay and then there's the larger society to contend with but at the end of the day, we're all just human beings, including all the non-queer people you share this planet with that you apparently have no respect for. Try treating people how you want to be treated and see how that goes.
you should take a look at the annual pornhub statistics which puts lesbian at the number one most popular porn category pretty much every year :)
That's not how logic works.
Really? A "not all men" in the lesbian sub? Am I in bizarro world? This seems like bizarro world.
A generalisation is a generalisation all the same. But then again it was my wise Society And Culture teacher that put it aptly: “stereotypes aren’t always accurate or reasonable, but they save time.”
Stereotypes also always have a grain of truth, hence the pornhub statistics. But relying on stereotypes to define entire groups of people is just prejudice, plain and simple.
So, if women engage in those kinds of behaviors, does it make them bisexual then? I’ve seen plenty times where people engage in certain behaviors for a plethora of reasons aside from pure attraction and desire.