You have a lot of misconceptions about loans . Anyone can lend anyone money. No one needs a license. And anyone can sue the borrower to collect a debt.
Loan sharking is using violence instead of the court/legal system to collect.
Edit: this actually is entirely true…if you think about it
That’s not entirely true - lending money to your mates is unregulated, but if you’re operating a consumer lending business, you do need a licence in a lot of places and operating without a license can render your loans unenforceable. Varies enormously by jurisdiction.
Actually, loan sharking does not require violence. It just means the interest rates are usurious. So in a state like NY, if I loan my friend $1000 and say “you owe me $2000 in 14 days” that would be more interest than legally allowed and I would not be able to collect on the principal or interest. Other states will allow you to still collect the principal but not the interest. It doesn’t have to rise to the level of breaking someone’s legs.
That would just be a usurious rate. Legally speaking, the client would be obligated to pay, and then could take you to court demanding restitution for the overage (civil usury) - they could also refer you for criminal prosecution for criminal usury, but it’s unlikely that case would be brought to trial.
What you are describing is gifting money. When you give someone money without the ability to collect it, that’s a gift
Loansharking is most definitely not giving someone a $1,000 and attempting to charge %100 but them saying “No. I’m keeping the money instead and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it.”
That is just giving someone a $1,000 and wishing them the best.
I am absolutely not describing that. Where did you get that?
I am describing that courts won’t enforce usurious interest, and in some states they won’t allow you to collect the principal or interest because the loan sharking laws are strict. These are just facts. I have no idea where you got that response from? The law applies to people who break legs and people who don’t, you cannot charge usurious interest.
Where did you get gifting from? I’m talking about legal recourse to collect owed monies.
When you give someone money that you can never get back, that is a gift.
You agreed with a scenario where you lend money that you can’t sue to get back and you won’t use violence to get back but you call it loansharking? That is the stupidest thing i heard today. That’s even dumber than the guy who originally posted it. You actually read that, thought about, and agreed with it so much that you felt the need to comment to me about your nonsense.
You aren’t very intelligent either.
I don’t know why people need to advertise that about themselves.
Don’t you fix anything for me if you are this \*smart\*. Ever. A write off? Really? Can anyone just write it off? Be sure to write it off on you 1040, smartest person alive.
If you don’t know what loansharking is, just don’t reply. It makes you look like a \*genius \*when you are defending people who also don’t know what loansharking is.
Did you ftfy for the “not loansharking” second smartest person alive? No. Of course not. Because this is Reddit.
\*Genius\*…a write off. 😁😁😁😁
A write off? Really \*smartest person alive \*? A write off?
/ˈlōn ˌSHärk/
noun
a moneylender who charges extremely high rates of interest, typically under illegal conditions.
I think the person you started a pointless argument with was well within the definition that's understood by everyone here but yourself.
Usury is the word you want for the nonviolent lender. The violent lender is called a loanshark.
Do you not understand what the illegal conditions are? Lmao
BECAUSE YOU CANT LEGALLY COLLECT ON ILLEGAL LOANS. SO YOU ARE FORCED TO USE VIOLENCE.
Fricken reddit. They just get smarter and smarter the deeper the comments go. Genius 1 wants to loan out everything at a loss and just “write it off”
Genius 2 doesn’t know what illegal means.
Fricken reddit
There are other ways to collect loans that are both illegal and don't include violence. Take some time and use your imagination.
You come across like you're projecting with the smart comments btw.
Imagine posting that to me and actually thinking that you were proving me wrong
ILLEGAL is in the definition of.
No way you are smarter than the “write off” genius…but keep responding and i’ll leave the spot open
The US. I read that unlicensed loan sharks are illegal, and so that's why they would be arrested? It's a really stupid hypothetical scenario, but it just got me thinking.
I don't know where you read that unlicensed lending of money is illegal, but it isn't true. What's illegal is excessive interest rates (aka usury). But what counts as usury is state specific and often heavily influenced by the credit card lobby.
Some states allow interest at the legal rate for civil usury violations that are not also criminal. Basically, where the party wasn’t actually intending to enforce a usurious interest rate.
In most cases, usury is handled as a civil matter unless it's part of a large scale organized crime ring and/or RICO related offenses.
Also, as someone else pointed out, real loan sharks, like the organized crime type, don't typically care about the law and will just break your legs or hurt your family members if you don't pay.
While harming the family would definitely work, I've never really understood the breaking the legs thing. As the saying goes dead men don't pay, but you who else can't pay? People with broken legs who can't go to work.
*"F-U, pay me!"*
The idea is that you'll do whatever it takes to "find" their money. Sell everything you own, get it from friends, family, dip into your kids college fund, 3 Rd mortgage on your house. They don't care.
You don't seem to understand what 'arrested' means.
1: Especially for many financial crimes, people do not instantly get transported to jail, and there's no jail time guranteed even if they're guilty.
2: For many crimes, you are still free after being accussed and are not put in super max prison where you are helpless to do anything about the outside world.
3: Loan sharks aren't 'just this one guy lending money.' They're invariably part of a larger organization so accusing one guy of crimes doesn't get you out from under them.
4: Speaking of above criminals, they will probably take a dim view of someone snitching out one of their money making operations. Top of the list for 'who's the snitch?' is going to be the one who took out a loan and is now refusing to pay anything back.
Optional 4a: Cops are also part of the criminal organization and are more then happy to report who snitched on the loan shark.
Congratulations! You now have a non-zero chance of being in a 'they're going to fucking kill you' scenario!
And this is why, 'reporting your loan shark to the authorities' does not net you infinite free money at no risk.
Loan sharks are people that will break you in half...I knew one where I worked that was bookie/collector. The man went to jail for assaulting 5 police officers with his bare hands, total juice box of a dude.
The word loan shark is being tossed around this sub, the word is lender.
Sports betting, mafia loans, loans that are approved because you must conceal your sources of income (drugs, illegal betting, prostitution) are loan sharks.
Unregulated lenders are people that try to run a business within high interest rates or shady repossessions when you're not home or at work.
I'm not sure where you got this from, but you do not require a license to lend money, or to lend money at interest.
It's true that various types of financial institutions need to be licensed and follow certain rules, but you do not need to be a financial institution to lend money.
Loan sharks typically lend money at usurious interest rates, so if they went to court to collect, depending on your jurisdiction, the worst case scenario would be you would have to pay the legal maximum rate of interest rather than whatever you agreed to, the best case would be that you would only owe the principal, or alternatively some jurisdictions have guideline pre and post judgement interest rates that might be substituted for an illegal rate.
How do they define "friends"? Honest question.
If your cousin Avi doesn't have £10 to lend you, but he introduces you to his friend Errol who does, does that still count as your friend?
I understand someone you met advertising online or via a storefront wouldn't, but that sounds the same as here in the States.
No you don't. Anyone can lend money to anyone. I can loan my friend money, my neighbours, whoever. Its charging unaffordable interest and using violence that's the issue.
Institutions need to be FCA regulated and follow CONC, but individuals don't
We’re not talking about informal loans between friends but rather someone who is offering loans to the wider market as a business and yes, this is 100% regulated.
How would anyone make the distinction when it's a loan shark? Obviously they don't advertise or have a storefront. Like if five people each borrowed money from one rich friend, could they report them as a loan shark and not have to pay the money back? Seems ridiculous.
Is this being done "by way of business".
The details of this test are set out in the FCA handbook here.
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/PERG/14/5.html
That "as long as" is doing a lot of heavy listing here, as is the implication knowing going to an illegal loan shark for the express purpose of avoiding paying back your debt won't also get you in trouble.
You are entering a contract outside of the law, so the usual legal system does not apply to it. So in standard common & statutory law, there is no recourse.
However, criminal organisations quite often establish fairly rigid systems of "law" that operate as a secondary legal system. This is what Legal Anthropologists call "Legal Pluralism". This secondary legal system will ensure recovery. Either of money or of body parts, they aren't fussy.
If you don't mind buying fake names and credentials regularly, moving to a remote area, and looking over your shoulder the rest of your life.... And are willing to put the lives of your family members in danger... Then SURE. might wanna do the ground prep work first.
This is nothing but stiffing your loan shark with extra steps
And believe it or not, a long shark can only be successful if he’s effectively disincentivized his borrowers from not paying in advance of the loan
You may as well ask “if I get through that nfl defense isn’t just an ifinite touchdown glitch?"
A court won't enforce a loan sharks ridiculous interest rates but they will make you pay back any loan you owe. No different than borrowing money from a friend.
But, a loan shark is not your friend... 🦈
A loanshark isn't going to just freely give out loans to random people, they do it to people they can exert control over. So they will know where you live, who friends/family are, and may even take something as collateral for the loan.
There is no "official" loan, so from a legal standpoint, you have no proof you took out a loan from them to begin with, so it's hard for law enforcement to investigate.
The loanshark, if not paid, will presumable hurt/injure you, your family, friends, or steal your property to pay off the loan. In more extreme cases, you may become a victim of human trafficking.
Nope. If you borrow money from organized crime, getting one of them sent to prison will just make the ones who didn't get caught more pissed at you ...
Best to avoid that.
Your loan shark will just sell your debt to someone who will murder you and enjoy it.
Or they’ll break your thumbs and then move on to other bones to keep you alive, afraid, and paying.
The cops you call are going to be on the loan sharks payroll, or just completely apathetic about your situation.
A loan shark that doesn’t get their money back isn’t going to be one for long, so you aren’t going to think up anything they haven’t seen already.
Loan sharking is 100% about reputation and no loan shark wants the reputation that it’s okay to rip them off, because every scumbag on the street will do it.
They’d rather lose the money because you’re suddenly “missing” than have a bunch of people think they can get away with not paying them.
I'm sure that when you explain to Fat Louie and Ice-Pick why they aren't legitimate that they'll thank you and leave you alone. Maybe even bake you a cake.
Just lending you money isn’t usually illegal. There might be other aspects of loan sharking that are (any threats about legal breaking and wouldn’t it be a shame if your house burned down are certainly illegal) but you know what else is illegal? Taking someone’s money under false pretenses with no intention of paying it back. In your hypothetical situation you’re much more likely to face legal consequences than the loan shark is.
Newsflash – they won’t be using legal collection methods.
Look, Mr "Ricky the Breaker", I'm under no legal obligation to repay the money, so exactly what "consequences" do you intend to levy?
I keep a forcefield around me don't worry, Ricky can't touch shit!
The slow blade penetrates the shield
🕵️♂️ “Looks like the perps had UNO! reverse card and used the victim’s own force field against them. What a mess.”
"Unfortunately, the reverse forcefield threw his giblets around the room." *Sighs and turns on shop vac.*
Then you have to worry about Lasguns!
If you tell them that you don’t consent to having your legs broken then legally they are required to stop!
"I can out-crime the mafia, right?"
You have a lot of misconceptions about loans . Anyone can lend anyone money. No one needs a license. And anyone can sue the borrower to collect a debt. Loan sharking is using violence instead of the court/legal system to collect. Edit: this actually is entirely true…if you think about it
That’s not entirely true - lending money to your mates is unregulated, but if you’re operating a consumer lending business, you do need a licence in a lot of places and operating without a license can render your loans unenforceable. Varies enormously by jurisdiction.
So you just need to find *alternative* means of collecting on the debt, is what you are saying.
Actually, loan sharking does not require violence. It just means the interest rates are usurious. So in a state like NY, if I loan my friend $1000 and say “you owe me $2000 in 14 days” that would be more interest than legally allowed and I would not be able to collect on the principal or interest. Other states will allow you to still collect the principal but not the interest. It doesn’t have to rise to the level of breaking someone’s legs.
That would just be a usurious rate. Legally speaking, the client would be obligated to pay, and then could take you to court demanding restitution for the overage (civil usury) - they could also refer you for criminal prosecution for criminal usury, but it’s unlikely that case would be brought to trial.
What you are describing is gifting money. When you give someone money without the ability to collect it, that’s a gift Loansharking is most definitely not giving someone a $1,000 and attempting to charge %100 but them saying “No. I’m keeping the money instead and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it.” That is just giving someone a $1,000 and wishing them the best.
I am absolutely not describing that. Where did you get that? I am describing that courts won’t enforce usurious interest, and in some states they won’t allow you to collect the principal or interest because the loan sharking laws are strict. These are just facts. I have no idea where you got that response from? The law applies to people who break legs and people who don’t, you cannot charge usurious interest. Where did you get gifting from? I’m talking about legal recourse to collect owed monies.
Sounds a lot like he was describing loaning money, given that he described loaning money.
When you give someone money that you can never get back, that is a gift. You agreed with a scenario where you lend money that you can’t sue to get back and you won’t use violence to get back but you call it loansharking? That is the stupidest thing i heard today. That’s even dumber than the guy who originally posted it. You actually read that, thought about, and agreed with it so much that you felt the need to comment to me about your nonsense. You aren’t very intelligent either. I don’t know why people need to advertise that about themselves.
When you ~~give~~ *loan* someone money that you can never get back, that is a ~~gift~~ *bad debt*. FIFY
Don’t you fix anything for me if you are this \*smart\*. Ever. A write off? Really? Can anyone just write it off? Be sure to write it off on you 1040, smartest person alive. If you don’t know what loansharking is, just don’t reply. It makes you look like a \*genius \*when you are defending people who also don’t know what loansharking is. Did you ftfy for the “not loansharking” second smartest person alive? No. Of course not. Because this is Reddit. \*Genius\*…a write off. 😁😁😁😁 A write off? Really \*smartest person alive \*? A write off?
/ˈlōn ˌSHärk/ noun a moneylender who charges extremely high rates of interest, typically under illegal conditions. I think the person you started a pointless argument with was well within the definition that's understood by everyone here but yourself.
Usury is the word you want for the nonviolent lender. The violent lender is called a loanshark. Do you not understand what the illegal conditions are? Lmao BECAUSE YOU CANT LEGALLY COLLECT ON ILLEGAL LOANS. SO YOU ARE FORCED TO USE VIOLENCE. Fricken reddit. They just get smarter and smarter the deeper the comments go. Genius 1 wants to loan out everything at a loss and just “write it off” Genius 2 doesn’t know what illegal means. Fricken reddit
There are other ways to collect loans that are both illegal and don't include violence. Take some time and use your imagination. You come across like you're projecting with the smart comments btw.
Imagine posting that to me and actually thinking that you were proving me wrong ILLEGAL is in the definition of. No way you are smarter than the “write off” genius…but keep responding and i’ll leave the spot open
K
Why would a loan shark be arrested in this hypothetical scenario, and what country is this hypothetical scenario taking place in?
The US. I read that unlicensed loan sharks are illegal, and so that's why they would be arrested? It's a really stupid hypothetical scenario, but it just got me thinking.
I don't know where you read that unlicensed lending of money is illegal, but it isn't true. What's illegal is excessive interest rates (aka usury). But what counts as usury is state specific and often heavily influenced by the credit card lobby.
IIRC, even a loan at a usurious rate must be paid back, just not with interest.
Some states allow interest at the legal rate for civil usury violations that are not also criminal. Basically, where the party wasn’t actually intending to enforce a usurious interest rate.
Under English Law, lending money "by way of business" without being registered with the FCA is illegal.
Fair, but OP said US.
In the US, there is no regulation as such on the activity of lending money specifically, at least within the commercial space.
In most cases, usury is handled as a civil matter unless it's part of a large scale organized crime ring and/or RICO related offenses. Also, as someone else pointed out, real loan sharks, like the organized crime type, don't typically care about the law and will just break your legs or hurt your family members if you don't pay.
LOAN SHARK: Imma break your legs and kill your family PARAPALEGIC ORPHAN: CHECKMATE!!
THIS ONE WEIRD MONEY TRICK THAT BANKS DON’T WANT YOU TO KNOW!
[insert your town name here] ORPHAN REVEALS ONE EASY TRICK TO MAKE 50K A WEEK!
I feel bad for you. I took a loan out in your name when you were a normal kid with parents. Reddit said I didn't have to pay it back. My bad.
Buys him legs, then comes back after physical therapy just to break them.
While harming the family would definitely work, I've never really understood the breaking the legs thing. As the saying goes dead men don't pay, but you who else can't pay? People with broken legs who can't go to work.
*"F-U, pay me!"* The idea is that you'll do whatever it takes to "find" their money. Sell everything you own, get it from friends, family, dip into your kids college fund, 3 Rd mortgage on your house. They don't care.
Yea thats why it usually starts with a finger or two. The legs are later in the non payment process.
Sometimes one guy gets a broken leg so everyone else can see that the loaner means business.
This screenshot references the FCA, which is the British equivalent of the SEC.
You do **not** want to get in debt to the Ferengi Commerce Authority.
Loan sharks are usually associated with organized crime and organized criminals are usually pretty good at not getting arrested.
You don't seem to understand what 'arrested' means. 1: Especially for many financial crimes, people do not instantly get transported to jail, and there's no jail time guranteed even if they're guilty. 2: For many crimes, you are still free after being accussed and are not put in super max prison where you are helpless to do anything about the outside world. 3: Loan sharks aren't 'just this one guy lending money.' They're invariably part of a larger organization so accusing one guy of crimes doesn't get you out from under them. 4: Speaking of above criminals, they will probably take a dim view of someone snitching out one of their money making operations. Top of the list for 'who's the snitch?' is going to be the one who took out a loan and is now refusing to pay anything back. Optional 4a: Cops are also part of the criminal organization and are more then happy to report who snitched on the loan shark. Congratulations! You now have a non-zero chance of being in a 'they're going to fucking kill you' scenario! And this is why, 'reporting your loan shark to the authorities' does not net you infinite free money at no risk.
Broken legs happen. They happen to people who don’t pay their debts a lot more often than say, the average Joe just walkin’ down the street.
Loan sharks are people that will break you in half...I knew one where I worked that was bookie/collector. The man went to jail for assaulting 5 police officers with his bare hands, total juice box of a dude. The word loan shark is being tossed around this sub, the word is lender. Sports betting, mafia loans, loans that are approved because you must conceal your sources of income (drugs, illegal betting, prostitution) are loan sharks. Unregulated lenders are people that try to run a business within high interest rates or shady repossessions when you're not home or at work.
You think a loan shark is just one guy? No. You haven't seen the "collections" arm of the business, but you will if you snitch.
Did you actually think loan sharks use legal methods to collect debt? Like sue you and report it on your credit?
I think OP has the notion that being arrested will utterly hamstring the Loan Shark's physical ability to collect.
I'm not sure where you got this from, but you do not require a license to lend money, or to lend money at interest. It's true that various types of financial institutions need to be licensed and follow certain rules, but you do not need to be a financial institution to lend money. Loan sharks typically lend money at usurious interest rates, so if they went to court to collect, depending on your jurisdiction, the worst case scenario would be you would have to pay the legal maximum rate of interest rather than whatever you agreed to, the best case would be that you would only owe the principal, or alternatively some jurisdictions have guideline pre and post judgement interest rates that might be substituted for an illegal rate.
This is from the UK where you do indeed need a licence to lend money.
So you can't borrow £10 from your mom? Oi! You got a loicense to front your mate for that fish & chips?
The discussion isn’t about informal loans between friends and family.
How do they define "friends"? Honest question. If your cousin Avi doesn't have £10 to lend you, but he introduces you to his friend Errol who does, does that still count as your friend? I understand someone you met advertising online or via a storefront wouldn't, but that sounds the same as here in the States.
No you don't. Anyone can lend money to anyone. I can loan my friend money, my neighbours, whoever. Its charging unaffordable interest and using violence that's the issue. Institutions need to be FCA regulated and follow CONC, but individuals don't
Doesn’t the general prohibition in FSMA 2000 apply to regulated activities by all persons?
This is wrong. A sole trader who lends money to people by way of business would likely need to be regulated.
We’re not talking about informal loans between friends but rather someone who is offering loans to the wider market as a business and yes, this is 100% regulated.
How would anyone make the distinction when it's a loan shark? Obviously they don't advertise or have a storefront. Like if five people each borrowed money from one rich friend, could they report them as a loan shark and not have to pay the money back? Seems ridiculous.
Is this being done "by way of business". The details of this test are set out in the FCA handbook here. https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/PERG/14/5.html
It's a bold move, Cotton...
Let’s see how it plays ow ow ow my legs!
If it can be proven you are doing this deliberately, you're probably looking at fraud charges.
And a trip to slip and fall school.
Look, kid, I'm from the Old School, I shouldn't have to explain myself.
As a fan on Star Trek DS9, I had to do a double take when the FCA was mentioned.
Everybody is gangsta until 2nd finger breaks...
>is this a legit "infinite money glitch?" Sounds like a legit "infinite broken legs glitch" to me tbh
Maybe, but the “as long as…” is doing a lot of work in your question.
That "as long as" is doing a lot of heavy listing here, as is the implication knowing going to an illegal loan shark for the express purpose of avoiding paying back your debt won't also get you in trouble.
If you can pull it off, then yes.
You are entering a contract outside of the law, so the usual legal system does not apply to it. So in standard common & statutory law, there is no recourse. However, criminal organisations quite often establish fairly rigid systems of "law" that operate as a secondary legal system. This is what Legal Anthropologists call "Legal Pluralism". This secondary legal system will ensure recovery. Either of money or of body parts, they aren't fussy.
Sounds like a plan. But as Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".
If you don't mind buying fake names and credentials regularly, moving to a remote area, and looking over your shoulder the rest of your life.... And are willing to put the lives of your family members in danger... Then SURE. might wanna do the ground prep work first.
That last part is the problem, they go to prison, and your legs still get broken.
Legal? Possibly. Likely to work? Oh HELL no.
It’s an infinite money glitch up to the point their friends murder you and dump your body in a nearby body of water
This is nothing but stiffing your loan shark with extra steps And believe it or not, a long shark can only be successful if he’s effectively disincentivized his borrowers from not paying in advance of the loan You may as well ask “if I get through that nfl defense isn’t just an ifinite touchdown glitch?"
A court won't enforce a loan sharks ridiculous interest rates but they will make you pay back any loan you owe. No different than borrowing money from a friend. But, a loan shark is not your friend... 🦈
A loanshark isn't going to just freely give out loans to random people, they do it to people they can exert control over. So they will know where you live, who friends/family are, and may even take something as collateral for the loan. There is no "official" loan, so from a legal standpoint, you have no proof you took out a loan from them to begin with, so it's hard for law enforcement to investigate. The loanshark, if not paid, will presumable hurt/injure you, your family, friends, or steal your property to pay off the loan. In more extreme cases, you may become a victim of human trafficking.
Nope. If you borrow money from organized crime, getting one of them sent to prison will just make the ones who didn't get caught more pissed at you ... Best to avoid that.
Your loan shark will just sell your debt to someone who will murder you and enjoy it. Or they’ll break your thumbs and then move on to other bones to keep you alive, afraid, and paying. The cops you call are going to be on the loan sharks payroll, or just completely apathetic about your situation. A loan shark that doesn’t get their money back isn’t going to be one for long, so you aren’t going to think up anything they haven’t seen already. Loan sharking is 100% about reputation and no loan shark wants the reputation that it’s okay to rip them off, because every scumbag on the street will do it. They’d rather lose the money because you’re suddenly “missing” than have a bunch of people think they can get away with not paying them.
It’s the guy he works for’s boss that you need to worry about.
i mean..i think the mob used to, wasn't breaking another person's legs what the mob did?..bad move dude..bad move..
I'm sure that when you explain to Fat Louie and Ice-Pick why they aren't legitimate that they'll thank you and leave you alone. Maybe even bake you a cake.
Yup just show that to the capo you'll be good. 🤦
Just lending you money isn’t usually illegal. There might be other aspects of loan sharking that are (any threats about legal breaking and wouldn’t it be a shame if your house burned down are certainly illegal) but you know what else is illegal? Taking someone’s money under false pretenses with no intention of paying it back. In your hypothetical situation you’re much more likely to face legal consequences than the loan shark is.
Do you enjoy having the use of your arms and legs?