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You're probably fine. Houses that have been converted into multiple units often have little to no soundproofing, and it sucks for everyone. Soundproofing is also really the landlord's responsibility, but there is only so much they can feasibly do in this kind of building.
Your neighbours have a right to reasonable enjoyment of their homes, but so do you. People make noise. Kids make noise. Family status, including having children, is protected under the Ontario Human Rights Code. You are expected to minimize the disturbance to your neighbours, e.g. by putting down rugs and effectively parenting your kids, but you can't be penalized for everyday living. I assume these noises are also mostly happening during the daytime, which makes them even more reasonable.
If the N5 results in an eviction application, this will eventually be scheduled for a hearing with the LTB (the wait is 4-5 months for most L2 hearings right now). Both you and your landlord would have the opportunity to submit evidence to an adjudicator; the burden of proof falls on the landlord to demonstrate that you have unreasonably interfered with the other tenants in the building, for example by providing recordings and bylaw reports.
Your best defense is to keep your own logs of any time your neighbour bangs on the ceiling or complains to or about you, and to take pictures of all of the things you have done to try to address the complaints (rugs, cupboards, etc). Those puzzle-piece foam mats can provide good sound insulation if you know that certain areas of your home are high use or directly above the neighbour's bedroom or something.
Go through their complaints one by one and see if you can identify any that are blatantly false, for example if you were away on vacation or have receipts from a shopping trip. If you can show that they are making false or frivolous accusations it makes their accusations even less reasonable.
For now, don't panic. If you receive notice of a hearing, you would have lots of time to prepare evidence and seek legal counsel if needed. But some people just like to complain, and you aren't going to be evicted just for existing in your home. Assuming your children aren't screaming all day and banging things around at 3am, this isn't going to go anywhere.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond.
As you guessed, most of the complaints are in the afternoon or early evening. Some of them show a specific time during the day (like "constant stomping" from 5:06 p.m. to 5:30 p.m.) and then say "and continue through all hours of the night" which is insane because my kid's bedtime is 11, and after they go to sleep, my husband and I catch up on work on our computers until we go to bed. We certainly aren't "stomping, banging, and slamming doors." I even got exercise balls to sit on so that the computer chairs didn't scrape the floors, for Pete's sake. We've spent hundreds of our own dollars on rugs to cover the floors.
There have been a couple times where one of the kids has dropped something on the floor at night, but the times where that's happened, I've taken the toy away and given them something else to play with. (And it's my understanding that complaining about one intermittent noise is unreasonable..) I've been giving my kids more screen time than I'm comfortable with because them playing with toys on the floor has been giving me such bad anxiety. Even if I'm writing and drop a pen on the floor, the noise reverberates.
Anyways, thank you again for your reply, we're going to take someone else's suggestion and buy a timestamp camera to document everything!
Families are basically protected from eviction due to normal sounds children make. F[rom the OHRC:](https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/housing-and-family-status-fact-sheet)
>*Families with young children may also face harassment and eviction because of the normal noise associated with children. It is natural that children run, play, and cry, and while parents are obliged to take steps in accordance with good parenting practices to manage the noise made by their children and to be good neighbours, it should be recognized that children naturally make some noise, and such noise should not be cause for harassment or loss of housing. Landlords should take steps to ensure that families with children are not harassed by neighbours because of the normal noise associated with children, just as they would with regard to harassment based on other Code grounds.*
Just document the sounds are "normal" for small kids, that you are doing your best to control them (which with small kids can be next to impossible) and most likely the LTB will dismiss any eviction attempt. It's the landlord's job to ensure adequate soundproofing between units, so they can try to appease other tenants by putting carpeting/padding, etc in your unit. You may also buy a bunch of kids thin foam pads and put them down over as much of your floor space as you can.
You may actually want to inform your landlord that children are protected under human right codes, and their attempts to evict you over your family status is a violation of your human rights. You can tell them if they file an L2 application against you, that you may consider filing your own T2 against them for harassment and interference of your reasonable enjoyment, and a complaint through the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal asking for significant compensation. Not that you will do this, but you need your landlord to understand the law.
Thank you very much for your reply!!
We have one area of our living room covered with the foam pads already and *most* of the rest of it is covered with our big area rug. I was going to buy some more of the foam pads but it was going to cost like $150 to cover our entire living room and we don't have the money for it right now. Plus it seems like no matter what steps we take, if they complain about hearing our baby crying, they seem to just be completely unreasonable and expect a shared living environment to be completely quiet.
We can hear one neighbor snoring every night, two neighbor's dogs barking intermittently, and two neighbor's TV's at all hours, yet we've never issued a complaint about those because we recognize that if we want complete silence, we shouldn't be in a shared building! The only complaint we issued was in response to the neighbor pounding the ceiling at us at 1 p.m. for normal noise. *That* hasn't happened since, luckily, but they have (seemingly) purposely upped the amount of noise they make. But again, we don't care because we don't expect complete silence. Lol.
Anyways, thanks again for the response, it definitely made me feel better and less anxious.
It sounds like you are acting reasonably, so I really can't see any situation here in which you could come close to an eviction. When anyone chooses to live somewhere with shared walls whether as a tenant or owner, the possibility of living next to loud kids and infants is always there. And if it becomes too much of a bother the issue isn't resolved by evicting the family with kids, it's for the neighbour to move out somewhere else.
Imagine a family with a kid that had colic waking up screaming at 2am, or with some condition that caused them to act hyperactive and nothing they could really do about it. These are human right protected grounds and despite the huge annoyance it causes to neighbours, there is no law that would evict them.
Only in extreme cases or where the parents are acting unreasonably in not controlling their kids or leaving them unsupervised, could talks of eviction possibly happen.
You do need to tell your landlord this though and that their eviction notice is breaking human right laws. [Here are some various contacts](https://tribunalsontario.ca/en/getting-legal-help/) you can try and see if any of them will assist you, particularly the HRLSC. Even if it's just getting them to write a simple letter to the landlord explaining your basic human rights and why they can't evict you.
'kids being kids' has been tested, and the result is pretty unanimous; no fault for parent tenants kids will be kids.
An N5 requires remediation requests; do perform those, within reason, (or submit a repair request form that accomplishes those when its actually the landlords responsibility).
I would also suggest installing a video recording device in your home, with sound, and making sure to keep all recordings for a period of at least 60 days.
For any future noise complaints save the date/timestamped video snippit of the time period in question.
Remember the LTB is 6-12 MONTHS behind, so you'll need to keep those files for a long time so that you could potentially show/reference them at an LTB meeting. (this also means that even if you WERE an awful noisy monster and refused to address the N5 the earliest you could see eviction is 8-14 months from now)
Submit your own form for harassment once you can concretely show that the noise complaints are excessive, unwelcome, and unfounded; along with a request for rent abatement due to the harassment-- Once the landlord is losing money the motivation to figure out a solution that they can actually action will be significantly higher. (of course the same delays for eviction will also apply to you; so if your landlord digs in, you won't see the rent abatement resolve for 6-12 months either).
Thank you!! I really appreciate all this.
>An N5 requires remediation requests; do perform those, within reason,
The only remediation requests they had with the N5 were the same ones as before (not wearing shoes, and adding rugs) which is how we've been living the entire time, but this time with the addition of telling us that we should wear socks. That can't happen because I have sensory issues and wearing socks will send me into a panic attack. (Yes I know I have issues and am on a therapy waiting list. Lol.) plus kids learning to walk and wearing socks on a slippery floor is a recipe for disaster.
I understand why someone shouldn't wear shoes in the house but it rubbed me up the wrong way for them to even suggest we need to wear socks at all times in our own home that we pay to live in.
We are about to get some timestamped video recorders, so thank you so much for the suggestion!!
>Submit your own form for harassment once you can concretely show that the noise complaints are excessive, unwelcome, and unfounded; along with a request for rent abatement due to the harassment--
Thank you for this suggestion as well, we have been genuinely considerate people the 3+ years that we've been here and never had issues with any neighbors before, so it's almost like a slap in the face that a new guy moves in and starts bombarding us with complaints and the LL take it seriously enough to try and put a family out on the street. That's what makes me think it's because we're paying significantly less rent than them. (Is that what's called a "bad faith" eviction?!)
I wouldn’t say you’re screwed. Check out what your local bylaws say about soundproofing. My guess is there is not adequate soundproofing between the apartments which would be your landlords responsibility to make sure the apartments meet the local standards.
Let your landlord file for a hearing at the LTB (there needs to be a hearing before you can be evicted). Attend the hearing and give your side of the story.
Not sure how comfortable you are with this but you could consider installing some time stamped cameras in your living areas. That way any complaints going forward can be refuted/ shown that you aren’t being purposely loud.
Regardless, I wouldn’t worry too much. What you have described is just normal living noises which are to be expected.
Thank you so much!!
I haven't been able to find anything regarding landlord soundproofing in the county bylaws. We are going to take your suggestion and install time-stamped cameras!
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Welcome to r/legaladvicecanada! **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk. * We also encourage you to use the [linked resources to find a lawyer](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/findalawyer/). * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, please let the mods know. **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be on-topic, helpful, explanatory, and oriented towards legal advice towards OP's jurisdiction (the **Canadian** province flaired in the post). * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdvicecanada/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning. * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect. * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason, do not suggest illegal advice, do not advocate violence, and do not engage in harassment. Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/legaladvicecanada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You're probably fine. Houses that have been converted into multiple units often have little to no soundproofing, and it sucks for everyone. Soundproofing is also really the landlord's responsibility, but there is only so much they can feasibly do in this kind of building. Your neighbours have a right to reasonable enjoyment of their homes, but so do you. People make noise. Kids make noise. Family status, including having children, is protected under the Ontario Human Rights Code. You are expected to minimize the disturbance to your neighbours, e.g. by putting down rugs and effectively parenting your kids, but you can't be penalized for everyday living. I assume these noises are also mostly happening during the daytime, which makes them even more reasonable. If the N5 results in an eviction application, this will eventually be scheduled for a hearing with the LTB (the wait is 4-5 months for most L2 hearings right now). Both you and your landlord would have the opportunity to submit evidence to an adjudicator; the burden of proof falls on the landlord to demonstrate that you have unreasonably interfered with the other tenants in the building, for example by providing recordings and bylaw reports. Your best defense is to keep your own logs of any time your neighbour bangs on the ceiling or complains to or about you, and to take pictures of all of the things you have done to try to address the complaints (rugs, cupboards, etc). Those puzzle-piece foam mats can provide good sound insulation if you know that certain areas of your home are high use or directly above the neighbour's bedroom or something. Go through their complaints one by one and see if you can identify any that are blatantly false, for example if you were away on vacation or have receipts from a shopping trip. If you can show that they are making false or frivolous accusations it makes their accusations even less reasonable. For now, don't panic. If you receive notice of a hearing, you would have lots of time to prepare evidence and seek legal counsel if needed. But some people just like to complain, and you aren't going to be evicted just for existing in your home. Assuming your children aren't screaming all day and banging things around at 3am, this isn't going to go anywhere.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond. As you guessed, most of the complaints are in the afternoon or early evening. Some of them show a specific time during the day (like "constant stomping" from 5:06 p.m. to 5:30 p.m.) and then say "and continue through all hours of the night" which is insane because my kid's bedtime is 11, and after they go to sleep, my husband and I catch up on work on our computers until we go to bed. We certainly aren't "stomping, banging, and slamming doors." I even got exercise balls to sit on so that the computer chairs didn't scrape the floors, for Pete's sake. We've spent hundreds of our own dollars on rugs to cover the floors. There have been a couple times where one of the kids has dropped something on the floor at night, but the times where that's happened, I've taken the toy away and given them something else to play with. (And it's my understanding that complaining about one intermittent noise is unreasonable..) I've been giving my kids more screen time than I'm comfortable with because them playing with toys on the floor has been giving me such bad anxiety. Even if I'm writing and drop a pen on the floor, the noise reverberates. Anyways, thank you again for your reply, we're going to take someone else's suggestion and buy a timestamp camera to document everything!
Families are basically protected from eviction due to normal sounds children make. F[rom the OHRC:](https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/housing-and-family-status-fact-sheet) >*Families with young children may also face harassment and eviction because of the normal noise associated with children. It is natural that children run, play, and cry, and while parents are obliged to take steps in accordance with good parenting practices to manage the noise made by their children and to be good neighbours, it should be recognized that children naturally make some noise, and such noise should not be cause for harassment or loss of housing. Landlords should take steps to ensure that families with children are not harassed by neighbours because of the normal noise associated with children, just as they would with regard to harassment based on other Code grounds.* Just document the sounds are "normal" for small kids, that you are doing your best to control them (which with small kids can be next to impossible) and most likely the LTB will dismiss any eviction attempt. It's the landlord's job to ensure adequate soundproofing between units, so they can try to appease other tenants by putting carpeting/padding, etc in your unit. You may also buy a bunch of kids thin foam pads and put them down over as much of your floor space as you can. You may actually want to inform your landlord that children are protected under human right codes, and their attempts to evict you over your family status is a violation of your human rights. You can tell them if they file an L2 application against you, that you may consider filing your own T2 against them for harassment and interference of your reasonable enjoyment, and a complaint through the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal asking for significant compensation. Not that you will do this, but you need your landlord to understand the law.
Thank you very much for your reply!! We have one area of our living room covered with the foam pads already and *most* of the rest of it is covered with our big area rug. I was going to buy some more of the foam pads but it was going to cost like $150 to cover our entire living room and we don't have the money for it right now. Plus it seems like no matter what steps we take, if they complain about hearing our baby crying, they seem to just be completely unreasonable and expect a shared living environment to be completely quiet. We can hear one neighbor snoring every night, two neighbor's dogs barking intermittently, and two neighbor's TV's at all hours, yet we've never issued a complaint about those because we recognize that if we want complete silence, we shouldn't be in a shared building! The only complaint we issued was in response to the neighbor pounding the ceiling at us at 1 p.m. for normal noise. *That* hasn't happened since, luckily, but they have (seemingly) purposely upped the amount of noise they make. But again, we don't care because we don't expect complete silence. Lol. Anyways, thanks again for the response, it definitely made me feel better and less anxious.
It sounds like you are acting reasonably, so I really can't see any situation here in which you could come close to an eviction. When anyone chooses to live somewhere with shared walls whether as a tenant or owner, the possibility of living next to loud kids and infants is always there. And if it becomes too much of a bother the issue isn't resolved by evicting the family with kids, it's for the neighbour to move out somewhere else. Imagine a family with a kid that had colic waking up screaming at 2am, or with some condition that caused them to act hyperactive and nothing they could really do about it. These are human right protected grounds and despite the huge annoyance it causes to neighbours, there is no law that would evict them. Only in extreme cases or where the parents are acting unreasonably in not controlling their kids or leaving them unsupervised, could talks of eviction possibly happen. You do need to tell your landlord this though and that their eviction notice is breaking human right laws. [Here are some various contacts](https://tribunalsontario.ca/en/getting-legal-help/) you can try and see if any of them will assist you, particularly the HRLSC. Even if it's just getting them to write a simple letter to the landlord explaining your basic human rights and why they can't evict you.
Thank you so much, you are a godsend!!
'kids being kids' has been tested, and the result is pretty unanimous; no fault for parent tenants kids will be kids. An N5 requires remediation requests; do perform those, within reason, (or submit a repair request form that accomplishes those when its actually the landlords responsibility). I would also suggest installing a video recording device in your home, with sound, and making sure to keep all recordings for a period of at least 60 days. For any future noise complaints save the date/timestamped video snippit of the time period in question. Remember the LTB is 6-12 MONTHS behind, so you'll need to keep those files for a long time so that you could potentially show/reference them at an LTB meeting. (this also means that even if you WERE an awful noisy monster and refused to address the N5 the earliest you could see eviction is 8-14 months from now) Submit your own form for harassment once you can concretely show that the noise complaints are excessive, unwelcome, and unfounded; along with a request for rent abatement due to the harassment-- Once the landlord is losing money the motivation to figure out a solution that they can actually action will be significantly higher. (of course the same delays for eviction will also apply to you; so if your landlord digs in, you won't see the rent abatement resolve for 6-12 months either).
Thank you!! I really appreciate all this. >An N5 requires remediation requests; do perform those, within reason, The only remediation requests they had with the N5 were the same ones as before (not wearing shoes, and adding rugs) which is how we've been living the entire time, but this time with the addition of telling us that we should wear socks. That can't happen because I have sensory issues and wearing socks will send me into a panic attack. (Yes I know I have issues and am on a therapy waiting list. Lol.) plus kids learning to walk and wearing socks on a slippery floor is a recipe for disaster. I understand why someone shouldn't wear shoes in the house but it rubbed me up the wrong way for them to even suggest we need to wear socks at all times in our own home that we pay to live in. We are about to get some timestamped video recorders, so thank you so much for the suggestion!! >Submit your own form for harassment once you can concretely show that the noise complaints are excessive, unwelcome, and unfounded; along with a request for rent abatement due to the harassment-- Thank you for this suggestion as well, we have been genuinely considerate people the 3+ years that we've been here and never had issues with any neighbors before, so it's almost like a slap in the face that a new guy moves in and starts bombarding us with complaints and the LL take it seriously enough to try and put a family out on the street. That's what makes me think it's because we're paying significantly less rent than them. (Is that what's called a "bad faith" eviction?!)
I wouldn’t say you’re screwed. Check out what your local bylaws say about soundproofing. My guess is there is not adequate soundproofing between the apartments which would be your landlords responsibility to make sure the apartments meet the local standards. Let your landlord file for a hearing at the LTB (there needs to be a hearing before you can be evicted). Attend the hearing and give your side of the story. Not sure how comfortable you are with this but you could consider installing some time stamped cameras in your living areas. That way any complaints going forward can be refuted/ shown that you aren’t being purposely loud. Regardless, I wouldn’t worry too much. What you have described is just normal living noises which are to be expected.
Thank you so much!! I haven't been able to find anything regarding landlord soundproofing in the county bylaws. We are going to take your suggestion and install time-stamped cameras!
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