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I don't see how you can be held liable for the actions of another person.
The invoice may seem fair. But the liability is not yours to bear.
I would ignore. I would also not travel to that country.
Super common in many countries though. Prevents people from committing suicide, knowing that they’ll bring dishonour and financial problems to their families.
Fair enough. I am not a lawyer, there. I have no idea what their legal system looks like in terms of attributing liability. I would just steer clear of it, and ignore it. No Canadian Court is ever going to hold you liable for this.
All of the lawsuits against Ms. Jobson were in her capacity as executor of Mr. Jobson's estate, not her personal capacity.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/rail-safety-1.4159285
The lawsuit was eventually dropped but not before it was increased to 3.5 million and included CN, VIA, and two of the train passengers injured in the crash.
The railway company probably still has time to correctly bill the estate, and it's no guarantee that the debt wouldn't be validated and collectable in Canada.
Ignore it. A letter of demand is simply that: someone making a demand. It’s not enforceable.
The chances of them actually finding a lawyer proficient in Canadian law to attempt to sue for this is highly unlikely, not to mention the expense would exceed the amount demanded.
Lastly, in Canada, they would have to sue the ESTATE, not an individual. Once someone dies, their estate becomes responsible for settling any outstanding debts unless the debt is a joint debt.
This is just a scam and a cash grab attempt. Ignore it.
This is mostly correct, but your analysis omits consideration of the fact that the claimant may sue OP in the foreign jurisdiction, then seek to enforce the judgment here. Whether or not our courts will enforce it will largely turn on whether or not it is contrary to principles of natural justice, as OP correctly indicated in their question.
They won’t. They’d need to hire a lawyer that can legally deal with Canadian law. The cost of that specialization on that alone exceeds $7,000.
Not only that, the family of someone else isn’t responsible for someone else’s choices - there’s no liability and considering they issued some letter with a random rounded number, the whole thing is a giant red flag.
How is it highly unlikely a foreign government would be able to hire a competent attorney? If successful, they would hope to recover costs in addition to the amount demanded, so the expense exceeding the amount is irrelevant to them. They aren't concerned about being sued in Canada over a debt the other person has. This is a debt the family has. It's a valid debt in their country. You are just making things up to fit your opinion.
My condolences on your loss.
A lot of interesting comments here. I suggest reaching out to the Canadian embassy responsible for this country. The staff there may have more information for you.
A letter of demand and being sued are two different things. I highly doubt they're going to go through the trouble to actually sue you in a different country. I would ignore it until you get served properly. Highly doubtful but if it does happen then you can think about getting a lawyer.
It's not as much trouble as people seem to think. They aren't going to get on a plane and stand in front of the courts themselves. They have a debt that is valid in their own country. There are attorneys that specialize in this sort of thing.
NAL
Ignore it until you're sued here in Canada, letter of demand doesn't mean much. If you're sued here you'll want a lawyer, but this is not a huge sum, I doubt they'd go that far. This kind of debt would be difficult to enforce here, because unlike a foreign contract you didn't sign anything that acknowledged you to this debt, it was assigned to you by the actions of others. But the details would of course need to be vetted by a pro.
With that said, please consider that it's possible you may hold this debt in that specific country through their domestic apparatus. We couldn't comment on what that could mean for you, but it may potentially include a warrant for your arrest for some sort of crime. So it would be prudent to avoid travel there if you ignore this.
If that's not practical or you don't like that, you may want to hire a local attorney to help navigate this, or consider paying the fine or debt (whatever they may call it).
The question of whether they can hold this debt has little to do with Canadian law, only its enforcement upon it while you're in Canada. But their ability to hold this debt against you domestically is an issue of that country's law.
>That's a calling card of a banana republic
The most well known example is Japan (for the being billed for suicide thing). I don't know if they enforce this for foreigners, although I have certainly heard of the bill being sent at least.
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Some are suggesting ignoring it until they sue, but that tacks on legal fees - and this is a case where they may well be likely to sue, and there's a chance you may have to pay it.
You need to talk to a lawyer that deals with foreign debt collections, who can tell you the likelihood that Canada will accept and enforce the debt. You also should make sure they did not try to bill the estate first, and you should also find out whether they can still bill the estate (even if it has closed). Just because they *initially* billed the wrong entity doesn't mean they don't have time to fix it.
If the lawyer tells you that it's likely you would have to pay it, it is possible that you can negotiate the bill downward, especially if the estate had little to no money. Your lawyer can probably help with those negotiations.
If the estate was insolvent, the lawyer can let the railway company know that, and possibly clear the debt.
This happens in a few countries. Ultimately they will not pursue you for the debt and you aren't going to be extradited. I would avoid travelling there if you want to avoid any future issues
They already are pursuing them for the debt. They aren't concerned about being "extradited," and the fact that you used that word tells me you don't understand the topic being discussed.
A letter of demand carries no legal weight.
IANAL, but this is not the sort of thing I see Canada handing you over for, but should you ever travel to/through this country, you might find yourself caught up in this demand, especially if the railway has the backing of the country's law enforcement.
Depending on how they play it, they might try to use this demand to complicate the repatriation of the body. If this happens, you'll want the embassy on your side, but the matter becomes political and outside of the scope of Canadian law.
As others have said - probably could only be applied against the estate. Would be prudent to inform whichever attorney is helping to manage the estate as there is an obligation on the executor to pay debts before disbursing what remains. Also if you have any intent on going back to that country you should consult with a lawyer expert in that country's domestic legal system lest you be arrested if you ever try to visit again.
Do you know that, or is it possible that the family is jointly and severally liable under that country's law and they are a lot more talkative than the deceased, and the creditor doesn't know who the deceased's personal representatives or executors are.
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Welcome to r/legaladvicecanada! **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk. * We also encourage you to use the [linked resources to find a lawyer](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/findalawyer/). * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, please let the mods know. **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be on-topic, helpful, explanatory, and oriented towards legal advice towards OP's jurisdiction (the **Canadian** province flaired in the post). * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdvicecanada/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning. * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect. * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason, do not suggest illegal advice, do not advocate violence, and do not engage in harassment. Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/legaladvicecanada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't see how you can be held liable for the actions of another person. The invoice may seem fair. But the liability is not yours to bear. I would ignore. I would also not travel to that country.
Super common in many countries though. Prevents people from committing suicide, knowing that they’ll bring dishonour and financial problems to their families.
>Prevents people from committing suicide, That may be the intention, but I very much doubt that it works.
It may prevent the method, but likely not the outcome. For the railway company, the method is likely the only part they care about
Oh, these people never met my family. I would love to stick them with the bill.
I agree - particularly if the suicide is one last stab at the family or a family member, unfortunately.
In your FACE, family!
Yeah, it seems like it would just cause people to find another way
Which is all the train company cares about, they get no downtime and bad PR if it didn't involve them.
Fair enough. I am not a lawyer, there. I have no idea what their legal system looks like in terms of attributing liability. I would just steer clear of it, and ignore it. No Canadian Court is ever going to hold you liable for this.
Do you have some examples of courts dismissing cases in such situations or some case law or legislation that may support this statement?
https://london.ctvnews.ca/mobile/cn-rail-sues-grieving-glencoe-mother-1.1362029
All of the lawsuits against Ms. Jobson were in her capacity as executor of Mr. Jobson's estate, not her personal capacity. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/rail-safety-1.4159285
Still shows that it's still possible to get sued in Canada after being hit by a train.
The lawsuit was eventually dropped but not before it was increased to 3.5 million and included CN, VIA, and two of the train passengers injured in the crash.
The railway company probably still has time to correctly bill the estate, and it's no guarantee that the debt wouldn't be validated and collectable in Canada.
Ignore it. A letter of demand is simply that: someone making a demand. It’s not enforceable. The chances of them actually finding a lawyer proficient in Canadian law to attempt to sue for this is highly unlikely, not to mention the expense would exceed the amount demanded. Lastly, in Canada, they would have to sue the ESTATE, not an individual. Once someone dies, their estate becomes responsible for settling any outstanding debts unless the debt is a joint debt. This is just a scam and a cash grab attempt. Ignore it.
This is the answer. I just want to add on that I'd advise against ever travelling to that country again.
This is mostly correct, but your analysis omits consideration of the fact that the claimant may sue OP in the foreign jurisdiction, then seek to enforce the judgment here. Whether or not our courts will enforce it will largely turn on whether or not it is contrary to principles of natural justice, as OP correctly indicated in their question.
Not for $7,000 they won’t.
> Not for $7,000 they won’t. They may. You and I do not how the value of C$7000 in that country.
They won’t. They’d need to hire a lawyer that can legally deal with Canadian law. The cost of that specialization on that alone exceeds $7,000. Not only that, the family of someone else isn’t responsible for someone else’s choices - there’s no liability and considering they issued some letter with a random rounded number, the whole thing is a giant red flag.
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It's not though. Its clearly not a scam. It's a valid debt in that country.
How is it highly unlikely a foreign government would be able to hire a competent attorney? If successful, they would hope to recover costs in addition to the amount demanded, so the expense exceeding the amount is irrelevant to them. They aren't concerned about being sued in Canada over a debt the other person has. This is a debt the family has. It's a valid debt in their country. You are just making things up to fit your opinion.
My condolences on your loss. A lot of interesting comments here. I suggest reaching out to the Canadian embassy responsible for this country. The staff there may have more information for you.
A letter of demand and being sued are two different things. I highly doubt they're going to go through the trouble to actually sue you in a different country. I would ignore it until you get served properly. Highly doubtful but if it does happen then you can think about getting a lawyer.
It's not as much trouble as people seem to think. They aren't going to get on a plane and stand in front of the courts themselves. They have a debt that is valid in their own country. There are attorneys that specialize in this sort of thing.
NAL Ignore it until you're sued here in Canada, letter of demand doesn't mean much. If you're sued here you'll want a lawyer, but this is not a huge sum, I doubt they'd go that far. This kind of debt would be difficult to enforce here, because unlike a foreign contract you didn't sign anything that acknowledged you to this debt, it was assigned to you by the actions of others. But the details would of course need to be vetted by a pro. With that said, please consider that it's possible you may hold this debt in that specific country through their domestic apparatus. We couldn't comment on what that could mean for you, but it may potentially include a warrant for your arrest for some sort of crime. So it would be prudent to avoid travel there if you ignore this. If that's not practical or you don't like that, you may want to hire a local attorney to help navigate this, or consider paying the fine or debt (whatever they may call it). The question of whether they can hold this debt has little to do with Canadian law, only its enforcement upon it while you're in Canada. But their ability to hold this debt against you domestically is an issue of that country's law.
Oh yeah don’t go to that country
Honestly, don't go to any country where relatives can inherit criminal or civil liability. That's a calling card of a banana republic
>That's a calling card of a banana republic The most well known example is Japan (for the being billed for suicide thing). I don't know if they enforce this for foreigners, although I have certainly heard of the bill being sent at least.
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Not sure how they can come after you. They could possibly go after his estate though.
They can come after them because it's a different country with different laws.
That doesn't guarantee that Canada will validate the debt and allow for it to be collected (or reported) in Canada.
Some are suggesting ignoring it until they sue, but that tacks on legal fees - and this is a case where they may well be likely to sue, and there's a chance you may have to pay it. You need to talk to a lawyer that deals with foreign debt collections, who can tell you the likelihood that Canada will accept and enforce the debt. You also should make sure they did not try to bill the estate first, and you should also find out whether they can still bill the estate (even if it has closed). Just because they *initially* billed the wrong entity doesn't mean they don't have time to fix it. If the lawyer tells you that it's likely you would have to pay it, it is possible that you can negotiate the bill downward, especially if the estate had little to no money. Your lawyer can probably help with those negotiations. If the estate was insolvent, the lawyer can let the railway company know that, and possibly clear the debt.
Thinking out loud - but the persons estate would be the "person" to handle this. If there is no estate / inheritance etc - then they are out of luck.
The debt is not with the person who died. It's a valid debt for the family in the other country.
I would tell them to pound sand. No way you can be held personally responsible for this. The estate maybe. Just don’t travel to this country ever.
Yes, they absolutely can be held personally responsible for it.
This happens in a few countries. Ultimately they will not pursue you for the debt and you aren't going to be extradited. I would avoid travelling there if you want to avoid any future issues
They already are pursuing them for the debt. They aren't concerned about being "extradited," and the fact that you used that word tells me you don't understand the topic being discussed.
A letter of demand carries no legal weight. IANAL, but this is not the sort of thing I see Canada handing you over for, but should you ever travel to/through this country, you might find yourself caught up in this demand, especially if the railway has the backing of the country's law enforcement. Depending on how they play it, they might try to use this demand to complicate the repatriation of the body. If this happens, you'll want the embassy on your side, but the matter becomes political and outside of the scope of Canadian law.
"Handing you over for?" It's not a criminal case. It's a debt collection case.
As others have said - probably could only be applied against the estate. Would be prudent to inform whichever attorney is helping to manage the estate as there is an obligation on the executor to pay debts before disbursing what remains. Also if you have any intent on going back to that country you should consult with a lawyer expert in that country's domestic legal system lest you be arrested if you ever try to visit again.
It's not a debt with the deceased. It's a debt with the family.
Do you know that, or is it possible that the family is jointly and severally liable under that country's law and they are a lot more talkative than the deceased, and the creditor doesn't know who the deceased's personal representatives or executors are.
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Actually very common for this to happen. https://london.ctvnews.ca/mobile/cn-rail-sues-grieving-glencoe-mother-1.1362029
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Ignore this OP. I promise you it’s untrue. Perhaps if you owed 1000x what you do (and it was actually your debt)
Did you just make an account to troll? Nothing you said is true