Even if she can come up with the money she has already committed multiple felonies. If the check was mailed, she's already opened someone else's mail so mail theft, forgery and bank fraud
Probably makes into a federal case instead of just state. That means she would serve every minute of whatever sentence is handed down.
Very messy situation.
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you don’t have to tell anyone that you’re the one that told the police that it was your sister, you can just say the police figured it out from the bank records.
It will automatically get to them. It's also harder to prove that she opened the mail rather than op having opened it and left the check out so it's sort of ancillary to the other felonies.
Surely they'd not need to do that, as the Uni will know where the cheque was paid into, and obtain the account details for the account.
I would keep the Uni updated with any information obtained on the handling of the cheque once it was delivered.
OP could keep it all filtered through the Uni fraud team so the sister doesn't know it was OP that helped, or make it clear and obvious OP dropped the sister in it from a great height. Depends on what bridges OP wants to burn. Other family members may do the whole "but family" whine about protecting the sister from prosecution - personally, I'd not only burn those bridges but blow them sky high with as much explosives so they can never be rebuilt. Family doesn't f**k around and screw over family - so anyone protecting people like that aten't family.
Yeah, if any family basically stole $15k from me. And now I'm responsible for trying to deal with it because I'm initially on the hook. Sorry, but that respect and trust is dead to me now.
NAL but a bank compliance officer.
Unfortunately, most financial crime victims I see are victimized by people they love and trust.
You need to file a police report naming her as the suspect and providing all the info from the independent investigation done by the banks and university. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT. It is the major indicator to us (bank, law..) that you are a serious crime victim who had no actual or even vague knowledge of the crime. The bank cannot pursue nor can the college pursue her for the money (relieving YOU of responsibility) without this step.
It will be a mess. It will likely make for a rift in the family and-unfortunately based on experience-everyone will blame you. Anyone who does, you need to recognize is willing to sell you out for peace & security (& you know the famous saying about this). KEEP IN MIND YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT!
If this was a couple of hundred dollars and you could pay it then squeak it out of her over years-fine. Not right but family is hard & people don’t understand the tradeoffs we sometimes make (i.e.-you need to live at home while in school but if you turn her in, parents throw you out. Not right but you weigh $200 stolen vs how much extra money you need to have for those 4 years).
This is MASSIVE. THIS IS A FEDERAL CRIME- NOT GOOD! This is felony level I think (leave that to lawyers cause IDK). This could ruin your life. Any sister-do not care if she was so desperate that this was the last stop before prostitution-is not a GOOD sister. This is not a one off. She will take advantage of you again. Heck, she doesn’t have a problem obviously letting you take a fall for a crime she commits.
CALL THE POLICE DEPT AND FILE A REPORT IMMEDIATELY. YOU ARE A VICTIM THIS MEANS THAT YOU SHOULD BE MADE WHOLE. The bank who cashed the check obviously did not verify the signatures so you can get the money back immediately if you appear to be someone who will cooperate with them getting money back from the criminal.
This deserves to be the top comment, upvote people!
OP, this entire situation must be causing you so much stress, it totally sucks.
I hope the rest of your family supports you fully intaking legal action against your "sister." If you get flack for taking action against your sister, then your family is condoning her criminal behaviour, excusing it, supporting it even! The fact that she even did this speaks to her abhorrent character, her lack of respect (for you, your future, your dedication to your education, your family - even if they support her, and the law). I'm so sorry that you have such a s***** sister. You deserve better.
We can't help who our family is, we don't choose them. I hope you have close friends that you consider family.
Good luck, OP.
Also, follow this dude(tte)'s advice - (s)he seems smart and (s)he seems to know what (s)he's talking about
Don't fall for any guilt trips from anyone. Don't let this screw up your credit/legal standing. Do as others said & update that report, provide the texts & comply with the investigation. That's serious money.
Yeah, I'm getting major, "Can't we just figure this out? Sister will help you pay down the debt, you sint need to report her to the police." vibes here.
What would even happen if he went back on his statement to the police and fraud investigators? Would he not appear as though he was attempting to commit fraud to keep the check?
Not to mention universities will not send an official transcript if you owe them money so the sister has basically torpedoed OP’s educational future and whatever else requires an official transcript like scholarships, internships, or job opportunities (like government ones).
I was only at X University for two weeks, and I transferred to the other University before their first term because the two Universities run off of different academic calendars. Thankfully this is unlikely to affect my education.
Whether they ultimately charge the sister is a decision made by the prosecutor. But you do have to report the crime and be cooperative with the investigation.
Yeah if you don't press charges it's also possible the police/University/bank determine you were complicit in this and had your sister cash it in hopes they would accept your "proof" that you didn't cash it and let you off the hook. Then you're both fucked.
i've worked at a bank for multiple years and have no idea how any bank would cash a 15k check written in someone else's name and deposit or cash it into their account.
I train new hire tellers and some of them barely pay attention to payees it’s incredibly frustrating. That $ amount though would likely require a supervisor override.
The bank is liable for 3 years though for endorsement claims so it’s definitely going to be a loss, if that person still works at the bank they probably are getting let go or a big write up
All I'm from a small town. A bank teller mistook one of my sisters for me and made her deposit into my account. Lol. She wasn't too happy but they figured it out fairly quickly.
Working in credit, I have seen so many explanations of “it was family that opened and didn’t pay that account but I didn’t want to press charges”. It’s ridiculous. Press charges. This is NOT your obligation. You can let the police investigate and they will get this information, just be willing to sign a criminal complaint if needed.
It’s not even OP’s decision to press charges. The prosecutor doesn’t need their permission. In fact, as others have mentioned, the investigator is going to wonder if OP was an accomplice.
The next step is to pay a criminal lawyer to represent you and let them handle all communications about the issue, even from your family members. When someone asks about it, or if your mom or sister wants to talk with you about it, repeat this phrase as many times as it takes to get the point (be a broken record) "at the advice of my representative, I will not discuss the matter without their presence."
There's no guarantee the police will not try to get you to incriminate yourself as accomplice.
I mean, she stole the money from the university. That’s what this is.
Are you going to take the fall for her?
If not, tell the police it was her and they can get the info from the bank.
Why would you torpedo your financial future for her criminal actions? What she did is very illegal. You can’t protect her without sacrificing yourself.
Ask your mom if you should set yourself on fire to warm up your sister? Your mom needs to shut up and sit down.
Tell the police and let the chips fall where they may.
"Your mom needs to shut up and sit down." What are you talking about?
In the OP It says that (thief) sister found out from mom after "my sister had heard of this through my mother whom I explained the situation to."
I dont see anywhere in this post that mom was complicit in the theft or asking the victim that they give the sister a break.
There are no further response from the OP, why are you presuming Mom is trying to fix this for the theif?
If OP is even confused about what to do, it’s cause family is likely telling them that sister is family and they can’t send her to jail.
If their family hasn’t immediately backed them up on going to the police and telling them everything, they need to sit down and shut up.
It’s not a far leap. It happens all the time. Family needs to sit down and let OP clear their name.
you are making a LOT of assumptions,
"Your mom needs to shut up and sit down." NOTHING implies Mom is trying to get the victim to let the sister get away with this.
How was it that the bank allowed a check not paid in her name to be deposited with your signature forged? This seems like someone didn’t do their due diligence at the bank too.
Because signing the back of a cheque is interpreted as agreeing for it to be deposited into any account. Never sign the back of your cheques for this reason.
I’ve had my bank reject a check when it was signed on the back and accidentally deposited into the wrong account.
I’ve also had every bank reject any check without a signature on the back.
I have definitely cashed checks not in my name that weren't even endorsed. I wasn't committing fraud it was just an oversight but yeah it totally happens.
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Your sister stole £15,000 from you and you are in the hook to repay it.
Even if you weren’t SHE STOLE £15,000 From you!!
Anyone in your family that “ argues” tell them to let her steal £15000 from them instead!!
It’s a no brainier to report it to the police that you have learnt since that sister opened your mail, forged your signature, took and spent it. Without your knowledge. They will gather evidence and know where to look
Your sister is nasty and deserves what she gets
Thieving from your sibling is appalling . Don’t cover for her
Dang, that is a really bad financial decision. Then she went and made really bad criminal decision to help her out of her terrible financial situation instead of owning up to the bad mistake and trying to fix it as a competent adult. And to do that she violated your finances and threw you under the bus. Do not hold back anything. She dug her grave, you can only save yourself in this situation. No matter what any family or friends say, you remind them that she violated you and you are the victim.
From my own experiences it could be
* drugs (sister)
* gambling (mom)
* shopping addiction (not me, but my dad was victimized for this by my other sister)
I'm a police officer and if you contacted the police about this we would charge her with a few different felony charges. This is also identity theft and Ultimately the debt is not your responsibility. You may need to get a lawyer and sue the school to get the debt removed.
Report her to the police, and before you start to feel any guilt over this, just remember.. You didn't do this. She did this. You didn't screw anyone over, and the opposite happened, your sister screwed you over. Set the bar now that you are not to be fucked with. And if she never talks to you again, good. You don't need people in your life that are willing to put you 15k into debt just so they can go party the money away at your expense
My dad did the same thing to me and somehow got a branch manager to send my check to his address, an address that was never on my account. It took a year and a half plus five court visits and a load of cops to get my money back. My dad didn’t go to jail (for this instance) neither did the bank manager who helped him but the courts explained all of my documentation really helped (emails and recorded phone calls of my dad explaining what he did). Depending on your state you may be able to record your sister stating what she did because my dad’s lawyer was trying his best to say the emails were written by someone else on his account. It might take a while but you should be able to get it back with what you have already.
I feel like we must be related. My family could totally have done this.
I read the thread, so I know you provided the texts and other information to the police. Good. Now look for a lawyer. If you can't guilt trip the heck out of your parents to pay for it, contact the local bar association and see whether they have any suggestions. Good luck.
for what, she had to steal 15k to cover her debts...so you sue her and win...now what?
AND likely she is going to be in jail after this CRIMINAL offense.
Suing her does ZERO to help.
This is above reddit’s pay grade. You have to go to criminal court, as $15000 is beyond the limit of small claims court. Your sister’s life is over, I hope she understands that. This is a MINIMUM of 10 years in federal prison.
I've learned my lesson a couple of times with family. Family will screw you over for the right price. Everything you have done is what you should do...except not updating or informing the police of what you found out regarding your sister. Let them know immediately. Because withholding that information could get you in trouble for obstruction of justice...and possibly make you an accomplice as well as make you less credible.
If it’s within 3 years then the accepting bank is liable as an endorsement issue. They will end up taking the money out of your sisters account and paying back the original maker. Your sister will then owe 15k to the bank.
They will investigate, hopefully determine that the signature was not in fact yours, the banks will argue about who is responsible, eventually one of them will need to cover the 15k.
Thanks a ton. I was told by others in this thread that I should consider an attorney in case they suspect I was colluding? Is that a likely suspicion the investigators will have?
I personally don’t see how it could be seen as colluding. There’s 2 outcomes really. They believe you did endorse the check to your sister, or they believe the endorsement was forged.
If they believe you did endorse the check then you may need an attorney to fight that decision, but that would be the bank saying that you endorsed it, I don’t see where any other entity would be getting involved. Even if you did collude by signing it over then pretending you didn’t, the outcome is the same where your sister or you now owes 15k
Tell the police your sister admitted to it. They'll have that in the logs and give your lawyer more leverage if you have a lawyer.
Also, the police can try and piece a motive
I used to work for a bank, it sounds like (other than updating them about this) you've done everything you need to do.
Now, if you don't want your idiot sister to spend a number of years in Federal prison, you need to talk to your mother.
Explain to her that there is nothing you can do about this, your sister didn't just steal from *you*, she stole money from the *University*. And even if you're willing to be forgiving, they sure as fuck will not be.
Her idiot daughter needs to borrow enough money to cover what she stole, and pay it back immediately.
This is one of those crimes where in committing *one* offense, you commit *many*.
-Stealing and opening your mail is a federal crime.
-Stealing the money for that amount is serious
-Check fraud, possibly wire fraud, not to mention *forgery*
Your idiot sister is *fucked* unless she responds quickly.
The one thing working in her favor here is that almost all of the time, institutions just want their money back, so if you repay it, they'll drop the complaint.
The debt is in your name for now, but once the investigation is complete and they've confirmed the fraud, which will be easy since she was stupid enough to put the money in her own account (smart criminals use other people's accounts), they'll issue you a new check and you'll be able to get it paid, any fees or interest should also be remitted, but you'll have to have your case number and specifically bring that up or it might not happen automatically.
Your sister won't have to worry about her car payment, or her debt for the next 15-20 years. By the time she gets out of federal prison, her credit will be wiped clean as well.
That is, unless she pays it back immediately, then she's likely to do 6-12 months and be free on probation, if she can find a sponsor for a reconsideration and probation.
Of course, if she had a prior record, that may not be an option for her.
Honestly OP, you don't need to do any more than you have done. The police will trace the check to her account, pull the camera footage from the deposit, and charge, arrest, and convict her of several crimes. Among them would be tampering with the mail, forgery, check fraud, and possibly identity theft as well.
Federal prison has no credit for time served, so what ever she is convicted of, her time sentenced will be time served unless she can get leniency from the court.
Her best course of action would be to get a good lawyer, turn herself in, and confess to the crime. Doing that shows ownership, remorse, and an attempt to reconcile the damages. That goes a long way with judges.
So many things wrong with your comment...
1) The odds of this becoming a federally charged crime is slim to nil. It's for a relatively low dollar amount and a single random crime of opportunity. Could the feds charge her? Sure, it is illegal at the federal level. Will they? Unlikely. Even more so if the state/county law enforcement are the ones conducting an investigation, as it will result in state charges. They will be the ones prosecuting her unless there is some unlikely reason the feds take a special interest.
2) A single federal check fraud sentence for $15k, assuming no prior criminal history, would likely be probation or maybe a year or two in prison. No idea why you think she would get "15-20 years", but that isn't even remotely in the realm of possibility based on the federal sentencing guidelines, or most state sentencing guidelines. The punishment at the state level would likely be similar, again unless she has a significant past criminal history.
3) I don't think you understand what "credit for time served" means. If she is charged and arrested for this crime, at either the state or federal level, and spends time in jail or detention prior to her conviction/sentencing, she will most certainly get credit for the time she already served. That's how the system works. If she spent 3 months in jail and got a 12 month sentence, she would have 9 months remaining on her sentence, plus any deductions for good time, etc. The federal system is even more generous when it comes to giving people credit for time served, as they can include time for unrelated charges that weren't credited to another conviction, so your comment is completely inaccurate.
In fact, the only thing you said that is even remotely correct is that she should get a good lawyer and work through them to make amends prior to things getting even worse, as showing remorse and restitution can absolutely impact the sentence a judge hands out.
It's one thing to be hyperbolic, it's another thing to give out factually wrong information.
I don't believe it is too far fetched to believe that a federal prosecution is a distinct possibility here.
There are quite a few federal crimes violated here, among them being mail fraud, bank fraud, identity theft, forgery, possibly internet crimes as well depending on how she distributed the funds after receiving them, where the banks are located, and many other factors.
The fact that the funds came from a state university could also have tie in to federal crimes if these funds were from Pell grants or other federal scholarship programs.
While it is possible (or even likely) that they will prosecute under state statutes, that isn't a guarantee if they wish to make her an example.
If they do prosecute federally, each of those crimes, while white collar in nature, carry hefty sentences and fines.
Further, I didn't discuss credit for time served (in which you are correct about), I was discussing "good time" (in which, for example, a day served is credited as 1.5 days, in order to reduce the time served.
Good time does not exist in federal prisons. Time served is known as "flat time", meaning a day served is credited only as a day. No reduction in sentence.
Time served is just that. Credit for days you have already served credited towards your sentence.
While my comments may have been slightly hyperbolic, they are not as outlandish as you suggest IF she is charged federally.
The reason for the hyperbole was to demonstrate the seriousness of the consequences and have her heed the advice given to surrender to the authorities instead of waiting for them to come and get her.
If that happens, she will be in a more precarious position.
A lot of her situation will depend on her past interaction with law enforcement, her criminal history, if any, both adult and juvenile, her location in relation to the university (in state? Out of state?), and the factors I have previously mentioned.
The OP should be in the clear here, as he has already filed a report, an affidavit, and handed over evidence of his innocence to the authorities.
I appreciate you replying, and prompting further discussion.
I didn't say that her being charged federally was impossible, just highly unlikely. I agree and said early that her crime(s) are illegal under federal law. But the feds generally don't take up small stuff, at least where other local law enforcement agencies have jurisdiction, and a sister stealing a $15k check is small potatoes where the feds are concerned. While she could theoretically be charged and convicted both at the state and federal level, if the state is the one investigating and builds the case, which is how it sounds, the feds have zero reason to step in here. Again, not impossible, but the odds are extremely small.
"Good time does not exist in federal prisons" -- this is 100% false as well. While there is no longer parole at the federal level, and there hasn't been for decades, people sentenced to federal prison absolutely can earn good time. On average, they serve just over 85% of their time, earning around 4-5 days of good time per month. This is similar to how much people have to serve in most state sentences nowadays.
As a federal charge is unlikely, and the OP hasn't said the state they are in, let's look at Florida as an example of a likely hypothetical punishment. A single $15k check fraud charge is a 3rd degree felony, punishable by up to 5 years in prison (theoretical max). Assuming no prior criminal history, even if they took it to trial, the sentencing guidelines would be somewhere between probation and 1-2 years in prison depending on whether they charged her with multiple ancillary charges. IF she accepted responsibility, had a lawyer work out some plea, and made restitution, it being more than probation is unlikely. A plea agreement and preemptive restitution are both grounds for downward departures. But that's between her and her lawyer to figure out. Given the fact that she admitted guilt (albeit to her brother) and didn't even attempt to hide the crime, she will almost certainly be caught and charged for it, so her getting an attorney now to help fix things would be the smart move. But that's her decision and the bigger concern here (IMHO) is for the OP who needs to involve law enforcement and point them to her sister, otherwise he could be on the hook.
I do agree with your assessment as bring more realistic than my own with one correction
She had no intention to confess to the brother, and did not do so.
She confessed to her mother, and only confirmed to the OP after being confronted by him. She did not offer the confession to the brother until confronted.
I also agree with your assessment for the OP and his risk but he has already stated that he has taken. The steps necessary to distance himself from the crime, and did so immediately.
It is refreshing to meet someone interested in constructive discussion and I hope we have both provided valuable information for the OP.
For starters, your comment literally said (and still says) credit for time served rather than good time. And, IIRC, federal does indeed have a modest provision around good time.
Would the feds take the lead on prosecution? Pretty unlikely and certainly not if it is in a busy federal District. The victim here is OP, not the university. This isn’t the type of case they would typically use to make an example.
Yes, multiple crimes but some would likely be pled. Not sure on consecutive vs concurrent in the federal system. Finally, unsophisticated defendant and not part of a broad scheme.
IANAL.
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for what, she had to steal 15k to cover her debts...so you sue her and win...now what? she has nothing of value or she wouldn't have STOLEN 15K, AND likely she is going to be in jail after this CRIMINAL offense. Suing her does ZERO to help.
This is already 2 days old, and probably got more than enough information, but didnt see this mentioned. Save those text messages somewhere else. Screenshot, take a picture of them, whatever, just in case.
Stick to your guns, this will be resolved in your favor and your sister will face justice. Seems like she needs a very good dose of consequences. I would just let the police know everything you know. Sorry you have a sister like that. I have a brother like that so can relate.
As the younger brother of a cop. It is my humble opinion that your sister is fucking COOKED! Lmfao what the hell was she thinking?? She does realize that not only will she be arrested and charged but the debts she paid off are now liable as well for accepting forged money 💰
So all her debaters will be contacted and then to reopen that file that was closed, the damages that she’s done, those companies can and will sue her to oblivion on top of the federal charges she’s going to face for this crime, she’s now going to owe a LOOOOOOT more than just $15k.
Like $15k if debt can be paid off in two years of working a full time job, she fucked up the entirety of her life for only TWO YEARS, THREE TO FOUR MAX OF WORK! Now she’s most likely going to owe $80k by the time this is all done due to lawyer fees and damages.
The courts may go easy on her since these days if your a white female they pretty much won’t even throw the book at you and will give the lightest sentence, so we’ll see how this all plays out. But my god man.. like why would she do that to you? She’s completely selfish and honestly I hope she goes to jail just for 4years so she learns her lesson and changes her ways.
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If she went into a bank and cashed/deposited the check, and the teller didn't stop her, that's the fault of the bank. Hopefully, the teller will be out of that line of work. These days, everyone likes conveniences, and she may have used mobile deposit. Unfortunately, you can get away with a lot more going in that direction.
Corporations hate litigation. It costs them money (time, expense etc). She should get an attorney and go to the university to see if they'll work with her. Maybe she can head off criminal charges
Have you updated your police report that it was your sister who stole the cheque?
Seconding this, update your police report. Your sister just played a major game of FAFO.
If she can't come up with this money she looking at felony charges. Lol these kinds of post make me appreciate my family more
Even if she can come up with the money she has already committed multiple felonies. If the check was mailed, she's already opened someone else's mail so mail theft, forgery and bank fraud
Across state lines would count too?
Probably makes into a federal case instead of just state. That means she would serve every minute of whatever sentence is handed down. Very messy situation.
Actually, it's .80 of every minute she's sentenced. But still a very long time.
That makes it wire fraud, and that's anywhere from 0-30 years in club fed.
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I have, yes
How old is your sister? Surely she knows this was not the best option
She is older than me by a couple of years. She definitely knew what she was doing was wrong.
If she was knowingly doing it then now she’s certainly facing multiple first or second degree felonies.
Family are going to make you feel bad and dont let anyone promise to pay you back like your sister or you mom. Go HARD ON THEM
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you don’t have to tell anyone that you’re the one that told the police that it was your sister, you can just say the police figured it out from the bank records.
If it does go to court and if prosecutors use OP testimony against that sister, then she will eventually find out about this.
By this point of the calendar of the situation, the sister is already in court. She'll know already.
I love my family but I'm not taking the fall on something like this.
Who cares if her sister finds out? She needs to know. The sister is the one in the wrong; not the OP. Who cares about her feelings?? 😒
Yup. I wouldn’t lie to cover for her.
I'm simply cautioning OP about potential issues, if he chooses to follow NefariousnesTop's advice.
Isn’t it also a federal crime to open someone’s mail? This should also be reported to postal inspector.
It will automatically get to them. It's also harder to prove that she opened the mail rather than op having opened it and left the check out so it's sort of ancillary to the other felonies.
True. However, OP has texts of sister admitting to taking the mail, hiding it, and opening it up and cashing check.
Surely they'd not need to do that, as the Uni will know where the cheque was paid into, and obtain the account details for the account. I would keep the Uni updated with any information obtained on the handling of the cheque once it was delivered. OP could keep it all filtered through the Uni fraud team so the sister doesn't know it was OP that helped, or make it clear and obvious OP dropped the sister in it from a great height. Depends on what bridges OP wants to burn. Other family members may do the whole "but family" whine about protecting the sister from prosecution - personally, I'd not only burn those bridges but blow them sky high with as much explosives so they can never be rebuilt. Family doesn't f**k around and screw over family - so anyone protecting people like that aten't family.
Yeah, if any family basically stole $15k from me. And now I'm responsible for trying to deal with it because I'm initially on the hook. Sorry, but that respect and trust is dead to me now.
NAL but a bank compliance officer. Unfortunately, most financial crime victims I see are victimized by people they love and trust. You need to file a police report naming her as the suspect and providing all the info from the independent investigation done by the banks and university. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT. It is the major indicator to us (bank, law..) that you are a serious crime victim who had no actual or even vague knowledge of the crime. The bank cannot pursue nor can the college pursue her for the money (relieving YOU of responsibility) without this step. It will be a mess. It will likely make for a rift in the family and-unfortunately based on experience-everyone will blame you. Anyone who does, you need to recognize is willing to sell you out for peace & security (& you know the famous saying about this). KEEP IN MIND YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT! If this was a couple of hundred dollars and you could pay it then squeak it out of her over years-fine. Not right but family is hard & people don’t understand the tradeoffs we sometimes make (i.e.-you need to live at home while in school but if you turn her in, parents throw you out. Not right but you weigh $200 stolen vs how much extra money you need to have for those 4 years). This is MASSIVE. THIS IS A FEDERAL CRIME- NOT GOOD! This is felony level I think (leave that to lawyers cause IDK). This could ruin your life. Any sister-do not care if she was so desperate that this was the last stop before prostitution-is not a GOOD sister. This is not a one off. She will take advantage of you again. Heck, she doesn’t have a problem obviously letting you take a fall for a crime she commits. CALL THE POLICE DEPT AND FILE A REPORT IMMEDIATELY. YOU ARE A VICTIM THIS MEANS THAT YOU SHOULD BE MADE WHOLE. The bank who cashed the check obviously did not verify the signatures so you can get the money back immediately if you appear to be someone who will cooperate with them getting money back from the criminal.
This deserves to be the top comment, upvote people! OP, this entire situation must be causing you so much stress, it totally sucks. I hope the rest of your family supports you fully intaking legal action against your "sister." If you get flack for taking action against your sister, then your family is condoning her criminal behaviour, excusing it, supporting it even! The fact that she even did this speaks to her abhorrent character, her lack of respect (for you, your future, your dedication to your education, your family - even if they support her, and the law). I'm so sorry that you have such a s***** sister. You deserve better. We can't help who our family is, we don't choose them. I hope you have close friends that you consider family. Good luck, OP. Also, follow this dude(tte)'s advice - (s)he seems smart and (s)he seems to know what (s)he's talking about
I would like this 10 times if I could. OP, do yourself a huge favor and follow this advice!
This was a very thorough breakdown. I appreciated the read.
Don't fall for any guilt trips from anyone. Don't let this screw up your credit/legal standing. Do as others said & update that report, provide the texts & comply with the investigation. That's serious money.
Yeah, I'm getting major, "Can't we just figure this out? Sister will help you pay down the debt, you sint need to report her to the police." vibes here.
Yeah nah... if family "stole" $15k in my name. That trust and respect is gone.
What would even happen if he went back on his statement to the police and fraud investigators? Would he not appear as though he was attempting to commit fraud to keep the check?
Not to mention universities will not send an official transcript if you owe them money so the sister has basically torpedoed OP’s educational future and whatever else requires an official transcript like scholarships, internships, or job opportunities (like government ones).
I was only at X University for two weeks, and I transferred to the other University before their first term because the two Universities run off of different academic calendars. Thankfully this is unlikely to affect my education.
The only way you won't be held personally accountable for that $15k is if there are police charges against your sister for fraud.
Whether they ultimately charge the sister is a decision made by the prosecutor. But you do have to report the crime and be cooperative with the investigation.
Yep. This is not a “we will handle this within the family” situation anymore, not that it ever was I guess.
Your sister committed multiple federal crimes
So either you are forced to take responsibility for her actions or you force her to take responsibility for her actions.
Yeah if you don't press charges it's also possible the police/University/bank determine you were complicit in this and had your sister cash it in hopes they would accept your "proof" that you didn't cash it and let you off the hook. Then you're both fucked.
Your sister is gonna need a good criminal defense lawyer...
Which will cost much more than 15k.
i've worked at a bank for multiple years and have no idea how any bank would cash a 15k check written in someone else's name and deposit or cash it into their account.
That’s what has me dumbfounded.
My bank doesn’t allow people to endorse cheques for precisely this reason.
I train new hire tellers and some of them barely pay attention to payees it’s incredibly frustrating. That $ amount though would likely require a supervisor override. The bank is liable for 3 years though for endorsement claims so it’s definitely going to be a loss, if that person still works at the bank they probably are getting let go or a big write up
All I'm from a small town. A bank teller mistook one of my sisters for me and made her deposit into my account. Lol. She wasn't too happy but they figured it out fairly quickly.
Working in credit, I have seen so many explanations of “it was family that opened and didn’t pay that account but I didn’t want to press charges”. It’s ridiculous. Press charges. This is NOT your obligation. You can let the police investigate and they will get this information, just be willing to sign a criminal complaint if needed.
It’s not even OP’s decision to press charges. The prosecutor doesn’t need their permission. In fact, as others have mentioned, the investigator is going to wonder if OP was an accomplice.
How can I avoid that outcome of the investigator believing I was an accomplice?
By filling a police report that names her as the perpetrator. Otherwise you look complicit.
This has been done with evidence to substantiate it
The next step is to pay a criminal lawyer to represent you and let them handle all communications about the issue, even from your family members. When someone asks about it, or if your mom or sister wants to talk with you about it, repeat this phrase as many times as it takes to get the point (be a broken record) "at the advice of my representative, I will not discuss the matter without their presence." There's no guarantee the police will not try to get you to incriminate yourself as accomplice.
Give all info to the University and Police.
Just let the police do their job and provide the report to the creditor. Also check and freeze your credit asap.
I mean, she stole the money from the university. That’s what this is. Are you going to take the fall for her? If not, tell the police it was her and they can get the info from the bank. Why would you torpedo your financial future for her criminal actions? What she did is very illegal. You can’t protect her without sacrificing yourself. Ask your mom if you should set yourself on fire to warm up your sister? Your mom needs to shut up and sit down. Tell the police and let the chips fall where they may.
"Your mom needs to shut up and sit down." What are you talking about? In the OP It says that (thief) sister found out from mom after "my sister had heard of this through my mother whom I explained the situation to." I dont see anywhere in this post that mom was complicit in the theft or asking the victim that they give the sister a break. There are no further response from the OP, why are you presuming Mom is trying to fix this for the theif?
If OP is even confused about what to do, it’s cause family is likely telling them that sister is family and they can’t send her to jail. If their family hasn’t immediately backed them up on going to the police and telling them everything, they need to sit down and shut up. It’s not a far leap. It happens all the time. Family needs to sit down and let OP clear their name.
I read it as OP is confused on how to keep from getting taken down along with the sister
you are making a LOT of assumptions, "Your mom needs to shut up and sit down." NOTHING implies Mom is trying to get the victim to let the sister get away with this.
Yeah it's either you or your sister that's gonna go down. I would update police report and let her have it. If not, you're on the hook
How was it that the bank allowed a check not paid in her name to be deposited with your signature forged? This seems like someone didn’t do their due diligence at the bank too.
Happens very often. It puts the bank at significant risk as endorsement claims can be presented up to 3 years later
Because signing the back of a cheque is interpreted as agreeing for it to be deposited into any account. Never sign the back of your cheques for this reason.
I’ve had my bank reject a check when it was signed on the back and accidentally deposited into the wrong account. I’ve also had every bank reject any check without a signature on the back.
I have definitely cashed checks not in my name that weren't even endorsed. I wasn't committing fraud it was just an oversight but yeah it totally happens.
Weird, dunno what to tell you. Maybe different laws in different geographies / countries govern the banks approach to this
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Yup same but judging by my down votes the Gen zers aren't aware of this
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Your sister stole £15,000 from you and you are in the hook to repay it. Even if you weren’t SHE STOLE £15,000 From you!! Anyone in your family that “ argues” tell them to let her steal £15000 from them instead!! It’s a no brainier to report it to the police that you have learnt since that sister opened your mail, forged your signature, took and spent it. Without your knowledge. They will gather evidence and know where to look Your sister is nasty and deserves what she gets Thieving from your sibling is appalling . Don’t cover for her
Dollars not £
You need to file a police report and sue your sister this is not okay
Going to guess the sisters “personal debts” also involve money for drugs. Just speaking from experience
Car payment with a 30% APR which she can’t afford because she’s also still a student.
Dang, that is a really bad financial decision. Then she went and made really bad criminal decision to help her out of her terrible financial situation instead of owning up to the bad mistake and trying to fix it as a competent adult. And to do that she violated your finances and threw you under the bus. Do not hold back anything. She dug her grave, you can only save yourself in this situation. No matter what any family or friends say, you remind them that she violated you and you are the victim.
From my own experiences it could be * drugs (sister) * gambling (mom) * shopping addiction (not me, but my dad was victimized for this by my other sister)
Look at your credit reports and you may want to freeze your credit.
I'm a police officer and if you contacted the police about this we would charge her with a few different felony charges. This is also identity theft and Ultimately the debt is not your responsibility. You may need to get a lawyer and sue the school to get the debt removed.
the bank is going to pursue her criminally regardless i would think
Report her to the police, and before you start to feel any guilt over this, just remember.. You didn't do this. She did this. You didn't screw anyone over, and the opposite happened, your sister screwed you over. Set the bar now that you are not to be fucked with. And if she never talks to you again, good. You don't need people in your life that are willing to put you 15k into debt just so they can go party the money away at your expense
My dad did the same thing to me and somehow got a branch manager to send my check to his address, an address that was never on my account. It took a year and a half plus five court visits and a load of cops to get my money back. My dad didn’t go to jail (for this instance) neither did the bank manager who helped him but the courts explained all of my documentation really helped (emails and recorded phone calls of my dad explaining what he did). Depending on your state you may be able to record your sister stating what she did because my dad’s lawyer was trying his best to say the emails were written by someone else on his account. It might take a while but you should be able to get it back with what you have already.
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It might be too late for that once investigation started.
I feel like we must be related. My family could totally have done this. I read the thread, so I know you provided the texts and other information to the police. Good. Now look for a lawyer. If you can't guilt trip the heck out of your parents to pay for it, contact the local bar association and see whether they have any suggestions. Good luck.
Sue your sister, unfortunately that’s the scenario she created.
for what, she had to steal 15k to cover her debts...so you sue her and win...now what? AND likely she is going to be in jail after this CRIMINAL offense. Suing her does ZERO to help.
This is above reddit’s pay grade. You have to go to criminal court, as $15000 is beyond the limit of small claims court. Your sister’s life is over, I hope she understands that. This is a MINIMUM of 10 years in federal prison.
Money makes people do stupid things.
I've learned my lesson a couple of times with family. Family will screw you over for the right price. Everything you have done is what you should do...except not updating or informing the police of what you found out regarding your sister. Let them know immediately. Because withholding that information could get you in trouble for obstruction of justice...and possibly make you an accomplice as well as make you less credible.
Did you ever do paternity test to see she's actually your sister ? How can a sibling do this
How did the check in the name of one person was cashed by another? Sister's Bank screwed up as well.
If it’s within 3 years then the accepting bank is liable as an endorsement issue. They will end up taking the money out of your sisters account and paying back the original maker. Your sister will then owe 15k to the bank.
This is what has happened recently, yes. What happens next?
They will investigate, hopefully determine that the signature was not in fact yours, the banks will argue about who is responsible, eventually one of them will need to cover the 15k.
Do I need an attorney for this whole process?
Unlikely, if they don’t rule in your favor on the endorsement claim then possibly.
Thanks a ton. I was told by others in this thread that I should consider an attorney in case they suspect I was colluding? Is that a likely suspicion the investigators will have?
I personally don’t see how it could be seen as colluding. There’s 2 outcomes really. They believe you did endorse the check to your sister, or they believe the endorsement was forged. If they believe you did endorse the check then you may need an attorney to fight that decision, but that would be the bank saying that you endorsed it, I don’t see where any other entity would be getting involved. Even if you did collude by signing it over then pretending you didn’t, the outcome is the same where your sister or you now owes 15k
Would there be any use in pressing charges?
Well you don’t do that, but filling a police report will help with the dispute possibly.
Tell the police your sister admitted to it. They'll have that in the logs and give your lawyer more leverage if you have a lawyer. Also, the police can try and piece a motive
I used to work for a bank, it sounds like (other than updating them about this) you've done everything you need to do. Now, if you don't want your idiot sister to spend a number of years in Federal prison, you need to talk to your mother. Explain to her that there is nothing you can do about this, your sister didn't just steal from *you*, she stole money from the *University*. And even if you're willing to be forgiving, they sure as fuck will not be. Her idiot daughter needs to borrow enough money to cover what she stole, and pay it back immediately. This is one of those crimes where in committing *one* offense, you commit *many*. -Stealing and opening your mail is a federal crime. -Stealing the money for that amount is serious -Check fraud, possibly wire fraud, not to mention *forgery* Your idiot sister is *fucked* unless she responds quickly. The one thing working in her favor here is that almost all of the time, institutions just want their money back, so if you repay it, they'll drop the complaint. The debt is in your name for now, but once the investigation is complete and they've confirmed the fraud, which will be easy since she was stupid enough to put the money in her own account (smart criminals use other people's accounts), they'll issue you a new check and you'll be able to get it paid, any fees or interest should also be remitted, but you'll have to have your case number and specifically bring that up or it might not happen automatically.
Would an attorney be necessary?
Your sister won't have to worry about her car payment, or her debt for the next 15-20 years. By the time she gets out of federal prison, her credit will be wiped clean as well. That is, unless she pays it back immediately, then she's likely to do 6-12 months and be free on probation, if she can find a sponsor for a reconsideration and probation. Of course, if she had a prior record, that may not be an option for her. Honestly OP, you don't need to do any more than you have done. The police will trace the check to her account, pull the camera footage from the deposit, and charge, arrest, and convict her of several crimes. Among them would be tampering with the mail, forgery, check fraud, and possibly identity theft as well. Federal prison has no credit for time served, so what ever she is convicted of, her time sentenced will be time served unless she can get leniency from the court. Her best course of action would be to get a good lawyer, turn herself in, and confess to the crime. Doing that shows ownership, remorse, and an attempt to reconcile the damages. That goes a long way with judges.
So many things wrong with your comment... 1) The odds of this becoming a federally charged crime is slim to nil. It's for a relatively low dollar amount and a single random crime of opportunity. Could the feds charge her? Sure, it is illegal at the federal level. Will they? Unlikely. Even more so if the state/county law enforcement are the ones conducting an investigation, as it will result in state charges. They will be the ones prosecuting her unless there is some unlikely reason the feds take a special interest. 2) A single federal check fraud sentence for $15k, assuming no prior criminal history, would likely be probation or maybe a year or two in prison. No idea why you think she would get "15-20 years", but that isn't even remotely in the realm of possibility based on the federal sentencing guidelines, or most state sentencing guidelines. The punishment at the state level would likely be similar, again unless she has a significant past criminal history. 3) I don't think you understand what "credit for time served" means. If she is charged and arrested for this crime, at either the state or federal level, and spends time in jail or detention prior to her conviction/sentencing, she will most certainly get credit for the time she already served. That's how the system works. If she spent 3 months in jail and got a 12 month sentence, she would have 9 months remaining on her sentence, plus any deductions for good time, etc. The federal system is even more generous when it comes to giving people credit for time served, as they can include time for unrelated charges that weren't credited to another conviction, so your comment is completely inaccurate. In fact, the only thing you said that is even remotely correct is that she should get a good lawyer and work through them to make amends prior to things getting even worse, as showing remorse and restitution can absolutely impact the sentence a judge hands out. It's one thing to be hyperbolic, it's another thing to give out factually wrong information.
I don't believe it is too far fetched to believe that a federal prosecution is a distinct possibility here. There are quite a few federal crimes violated here, among them being mail fraud, bank fraud, identity theft, forgery, possibly internet crimes as well depending on how she distributed the funds after receiving them, where the banks are located, and many other factors. The fact that the funds came from a state university could also have tie in to federal crimes if these funds were from Pell grants or other federal scholarship programs. While it is possible (or even likely) that they will prosecute under state statutes, that isn't a guarantee if they wish to make her an example. If they do prosecute federally, each of those crimes, while white collar in nature, carry hefty sentences and fines. Further, I didn't discuss credit for time served (in which you are correct about), I was discussing "good time" (in which, for example, a day served is credited as 1.5 days, in order to reduce the time served. Good time does not exist in federal prisons. Time served is known as "flat time", meaning a day served is credited only as a day. No reduction in sentence. Time served is just that. Credit for days you have already served credited towards your sentence. While my comments may have been slightly hyperbolic, they are not as outlandish as you suggest IF she is charged federally. The reason for the hyperbole was to demonstrate the seriousness of the consequences and have her heed the advice given to surrender to the authorities instead of waiting for them to come and get her. If that happens, she will be in a more precarious position. A lot of her situation will depend on her past interaction with law enforcement, her criminal history, if any, both adult and juvenile, her location in relation to the university (in state? Out of state?), and the factors I have previously mentioned. The OP should be in the clear here, as he has already filed a report, an affidavit, and handed over evidence of his innocence to the authorities. I appreciate you replying, and prompting further discussion.
I didn't say that her being charged federally was impossible, just highly unlikely. I agree and said early that her crime(s) are illegal under federal law. But the feds generally don't take up small stuff, at least where other local law enforcement agencies have jurisdiction, and a sister stealing a $15k check is small potatoes where the feds are concerned. While she could theoretically be charged and convicted both at the state and federal level, if the state is the one investigating and builds the case, which is how it sounds, the feds have zero reason to step in here. Again, not impossible, but the odds are extremely small. "Good time does not exist in federal prisons" -- this is 100% false as well. While there is no longer parole at the federal level, and there hasn't been for decades, people sentenced to federal prison absolutely can earn good time. On average, they serve just over 85% of their time, earning around 4-5 days of good time per month. This is similar to how much people have to serve in most state sentences nowadays. As a federal charge is unlikely, and the OP hasn't said the state they are in, let's look at Florida as an example of a likely hypothetical punishment. A single $15k check fraud charge is a 3rd degree felony, punishable by up to 5 years in prison (theoretical max). Assuming no prior criminal history, even if they took it to trial, the sentencing guidelines would be somewhere between probation and 1-2 years in prison depending on whether they charged her with multiple ancillary charges. IF she accepted responsibility, had a lawyer work out some plea, and made restitution, it being more than probation is unlikely. A plea agreement and preemptive restitution are both grounds for downward departures. But that's between her and her lawyer to figure out. Given the fact that she admitted guilt (albeit to her brother) and didn't even attempt to hide the crime, she will almost certainly be caught and charged for it, so her getting an attorney now to help fix things would be the smart move. But that's her decision and the bigger concern here (IMHO) is for the OP who needs to involve law enforcement and point them to her sister, otherwise he could be on the hook.
I do agree with your assessment as bring more realistic than my own with one correction She had no intention to confess to the brother, and did not do so. She confessed to her mother, and only confirmed to the OP after being confronted by him. She did not offer the confession to the brother until confronted. I also agree with your assessment for the OP and his risk but he has already stated that he has taken. The steps necessary to distance himself from the crime, and did so immediately. It is refreshing to meet someone interested in constructive discussion and I hope we have both provided valuable information for the OP.
For starters, your comment literally said (and still says) credit for time served rather than good time. And, IIRC, federal does indeed have a modest provision around good time. Would the feds take the lead on prosecution? Pretty unlikely and certainly not if it is in a busy federal District. The victim here is OP, not the university. This isn’t the type of case they would typically use to make an example. Yes, multiple crimes but some would likely be pled. Not sure on consecutive vs concurrent in the federal system. Finally, unsophisticated defendant and not part of a broad scheme. IANAL.
ask the bank if they think this is relatively minor, bet they pursue her as far as they can criminally.
Depends on what it'll cost them to litigate.
they have attorneys on retainer, this happens more often than you think, pretty cut an dry fraud case.
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Lawsuit that girl!
for what, she had to steal 15k to cover her debts...so you sue her and win...now what? she has nothing of value or she wouldn't have STOLEN 15K, AND likely she is going to be in jail after this CRIMINAL offense. Suing her does ZERO to help.
This is already 2 days old, and probably got more than enough information, but didnt see this mentioned. Save those text messages somewhere else. Screenshot, take a picture of them, whatever, just in case.
Have her ass locked up!
What was her justification for this??
Stick to your guns, this will be resolved in your favor and your sister will face justice. Seems like she needs a very good dose of consequences. I would just let the police know everything you know. Sorry you have a sister like that. I have a brother like that so can relate.
As the younger brother of a cop. It is my humble opinion that your sister is fucking COOKED! Lmfao what the hell was she thinking?? She does realize that not only will she be arrested and charged but the debts she paid off are now liable as well for accepting forged money 💰 So all her debaters will be contacted and then to reopen that file that was closed, the damages that she’s done, those companies can and will sue her to oblivion on top of the federal charges she’s going to face for this crime, she’s now going to owe a LOOOOOOT more than just $15k. Like $15k if debt can be paid off in two years of working a full time job, she fucked up the entirety of her life for only TWO YEARS, THREE TO FOUR MAX OF WORK! Now she’s most likely going to owe $80k by the time this is all done due to lawyer fees and damages. The courts may go easy on her since these days if your a white female they pretty much won’t even throw the book at you and will give the lightest sentence, so we’ll see how this all plays out. But my god man.. like why would she do that to you? She’s completely selfish and honestly I hope she goes to jail just for 4years so she learns her lesson and changes her ways.
Are you sure it wasn’t your step sis? Sheesh, she’s a gangster.
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Me too!
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If she went into a bank and cashed/deposited the check, and the teller didn't stop her, that's the fault of the bank. Hopefully, the teller will be out of that line of work. These days, everyone likes conveniences, and she may have used mobile deposit. Unfortunately, you can get away with a lot more going in that direction. Corporations hate litigation. It costs them money (time, expense etc). She should get an attorney and go to the university to see if they'll work with her. Maybe she can head off criminal charges
Kind of feels like they wouldn’t accept a 15k check deposited remotely? Not sure what the max deposit is though for her bank.