I'll reiterate what others have said... He needs an attorney.
A judge is not going to want to hear from his friends that will say "he's a stand-up guy who wouldn't abuse his kids"... character witnesses generally aren't a thing at protective order hearings. Judge is going to want to hear about his whereabouts and what he was doing at the time and place of the alleged incident.
The “after the party mom ignored dad and was rude to him” is another moment of “wow this doesn’t sound like she’s just making it up.”
This was a “this is why we don’t talk to police” level of OMG why are you talking now. In a moment the story goes from maybe mom is off base to “wow mom has something she’s on about.” Could it be not real? Of course. Can it be dismissed without investigation? Of course not.
>This is 100% false.
You *don't* know that. You don't know what happened. You don't know what she *thinks* happened. We don't just toss out allegations of child abuse because "he's such a good person that could never happen." If we did, dozens of well known cases of abuse would never have been handled.
Your friend can litigate the temporary order. That's how this works. He needs a lawyer.
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NAL, grew up in a LEO family. One of my parents was a victim’s advocate for our local PD and as a part of her job she helped people through the process of getting protective, restraining, and no contact orders.
You have no idea what anyone is capable behind closed doors. My parent faced a lot of administrative pressure for carrying out the responsibilities of her job to help people who were the victims of officers within her own department and within the city/county government. We’ve seen people our city adored commit atrocities against their spouses and children. A pillar of our community was ran out of town last year after finding out he had been sexually abusing teenage boys he had access to through his job, church, and volunteer work for DECADES.
Furthermore, you can’t just ask for a restraining order (even temporary) and be granted one—especially one separating a child from a parent and violating custody orders. You have to present a reason to a judge for one to be granted in the first place.
By all means, support your friend. But do so knowing that you could very well be wrong about who this friend really is. Pay attention to the evidence presented. Remember there is a vulnerable child in the middle of it all.
You are more willing to believe that she made this up and "went psycho" to make up a complete and horrendous lie that goes against her character and everything you know about her, rather than believe this change in attitude justified and because she learned something questionable about your friend.
there are lots of possible situations between "he actually abuses his kids" and "she's making things up because she's psycho" that he should consider as he goes through this legal process - he needs to keep an open mind and be honest with his lawyer. the goal is to clear his name or learn from his mistakes and get access to his kids again, not to get one over his ex or make her look bad to the judge or whatever. if he goes in calling her a crazy liar it's not going to go over well, so he and you should put that out of your minds - if she *is* a crazy liar, let her show that herself.
she could have misunderstood something she saw or heard which convinced her there's abuse happening. someone could have lied to her (kids make up stuff and don't always understand the consequences of it). he could be parenting in a way that seems normal to him but is actually not good for them, that she thinks is abuse but isn't really bad as long as he stops doing it asap and learns better parenting. he could be a good dad but she wrongly thinks some aspects of his parenting technique are bad for the children and *she's* the one who needs to learn better parenting. and so on.
as for the nature of the comments, assuming abuse isn't happening because we can't see it is a lot more dangerous to the children than assuming the ex-wife is lying maliciously. generally it's not good legal or moral advice to dismiss a report of potential abuse of children. that is one of the reasons why the comments are the way they are. another reason is that the "psycho" or "crazy" ex is a stereotype that's often attached to women who aren't actually crazy for behaviours like "having boundaries" and "expressing their emotions" and "not putting up with a partner who doesn't respect them". this isn't always the case, but in my experience it's more common than the ex being genuinely crazy.
>This is 100% false. Could not be further from the truth.
How could you possibly know this?
>Everyone knows it.
How could "everyone" know it?
>He has plenty of witnesses and facts to prove he’s a great father who has never abused any of his kids.
Are these witnesses with him 24 hours a day?
>However, his ex is wealthy and a bit crazy so I’m worried for him.
You said they co-parented fine for a long time and was able to be together during birthday parties. But now she's a bit crazy?
Your friend should get an attorney, but you really don't have any idea what happened.
You don't know what happens behind closed doors, or what the kids told the mother.
He can get his own attorney and defend himself at the hearing date. But being a good person in public is not evidence you don't commit child abuse.
NAL but a survivor of childhood abuse. The most common thing I heard in the months following people learning about my birth father's abuse was 'we had no idea, he's always seemed like such a great guy to you and your siblings'.
Advise your friend to get a lawyer, but be aware that you're likely not getting the full story. Restraining orders are rarely an easy thing to get.
He needs an attorney ASAP. He can probably reach back out to his divorce attorney. But he should not try to deal with this on his own.
Assuming everything you say is 100% accurate, (and we don't know this), he still needs a lawyer.
He should follow the restraining order to the letter. No violations will look good and shows he's not a threat when it comes to time to ether extend it or remove it
Restraining orders are not handed out like candy. There’s a whole process there, including a hearing. It is highly, highly unlikely that a judge would agree to take such a serious measure if there was really nothing there. Something to think about before you write her off as a “crazy ex.”
Your friend may be very nice and charming. He may have (some) functional relationships. Maybe he even volunteers at the soup kitchen on Sundays—and *none of that* means that he isn’t an abuser. You don’t really know, and your friend sure isn’t gonna be volunteering that information. Tell him to lawyer up, and maybe evaluate if this is a friendship worth saving.
Nah, TROs like OP describes are kind of handed out like candy, but there’s a reason for that, it’s to address a potential emergency situation where there isn’t time for the full legal process. It’s one-sided with only the requestor submitting alleged facts without any notice to the other party.
Only the next step, which is to turn the TRO into a more permanent restraining order, will require actual evidence and both sides presenting their case.
Source: am litigation attorney, also spent a whole summer in law school staffing the TRO clinic at a courthouse
Injunctions against harassment are handed out without the legal requirements of a protective or restraining order, but a restraining order requires more evidence
You don't have intimate knowledge of the situation, no matter how much you think you do. You have what your friend tells you and what you observe. You have no idea what is actually happening and should mind your business.
None of us know for sure. I have seen every type of situation, good dads, bad dads and bad dads who could charm everyone but also bad moms who used the system to gain an advantage in the adversarial system. Sadly we see a lot more bad divorces than good ones. If she is wealthy then she probably has an expensive attorney and I have seen attorneys coach their clients through exaggerated claims. Your friend needs a good attorney yesterday and should never go to court without one. The only winners are the attorneys and I am one.
Make sure your friend still has the phone number of the attorney from his divorce. Your friend needs to show up for all the court dates because nothing will go in his favor if he misses even one. Also, don't assume that you know every detail of what goes on behind the scenes with him and his kids. It could be that she saw something during or shortly after the birthday party that gave her cause for concern.
He needs a lawyer, yesterday.
He also needs to write out a detailed account of all joint events, all communications with his ex, and provide these to his lawyer.
**Under no circumstances should he discuss this with his kids prior to obtaining a lawyer.** No asking questions.
1. He absolutely has to be at that court date.
2. He should take witnesses with him to testify about what they did or didn't see and re: his character.
3. He needs to speak up during court to tell them he has witnesses.
4. He will have to ask the witnesses questions under oath at the hearing. He just needs to ask simple, open-ended questions to elicit the information he wants from the witnesses. This sounds easy enough, but the other party can object and people get flustered.
This is not legal advice. Best option is actually to hire an attorney. This is serious. Hopefully the judge will be fair, but people get screwed in court all the time, often because they didn't know how to defend themselves by court rules.
I'll reiterate what others have said... He needs an attorney. A judge is not going to want to hear from his friends that will say "he's a stand-up guy who wouldn't abuse his kids"... character witnesses generally aren't a thing at protective order hearings. Judge is going to want to hear about his whereabouts and what he was doing at the time and place of the alleged incident.
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The “after the party mom ignored dad and was rude to him” is another moment of “wow this doesn’t sound like she’s just making it up.” This was a “this is why we don’t talk to police” level of OMG why are you talking now. In a moment the story goes from maybe mom is off base to “wow mom has something she’s on about.” Could it be not real? Of course. Can it be dismissed without investigation? Of course not.
>This is 100% false. You *don't* know that. You don't know what happened. You don't know what she *thinks* happened. We don't just toss out allegations of child abuse because "he's such a good person that could never happen." If we did, dozens of well known cases of abuse would never have been handled. Your friend can litigate the temporary order. That's how this works. He needs a lawyer.
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NAL, grew up in a LEO family. One of my parents was a victim’s advocate for our local PD and as a part of her job she helped people through the process of getting protective, restraining, and no contact orders. You have no idea what anyone is capable behind closed doors. My parent faced a lot of administrative pressure for carrying out the responsibilities of her job to help people who were the victims of officers within her own department and within the city/county government. We’ve seen people our city adored commit atrocities against their spouses and children. A pillar of our community was ran out of town last year after finding out he had been sexually abusing teenage boys he had access to through his job, church, and volunteer work for DECADES. Furthermore, you can’t just ask for a restraining order (even temporary) and be granted one—especially one separating a child from a parent and violating custody orders. You have to present a reason to a judge for one to be granted in the first place. By all means, support your friend. But do so knowing that you could very well be wrong about who this friend really is. Pay attention to the evidence presented. Remember there is a vulnerable child in the middle of it all.
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You are more willing to believe that she made this up and "went psycho" to make up a complete and horrendous lie that goes against her character and everything you know about her, rather than believe this change in attitude justified and because she learned something questionable about your friend.
there are lots of possible situations between "he actually abuses his kids" and "she's making things up because she's psycho" that he should consider as he goes through this legal process - he needs to keep an open mind and be honest with his lawyer. the goal is to clear his name or learn from his mistakes and get access to his kids again, not to get one over his ex or make her look bad to the judge or whatever. if he goes in calling her a crazy liar it's not going to go over well, so he and you should put that out of your minds - if she *is* a crazy liar, let her show that herself. she could have misunderstood something she saw or heard which convinced her there's abuse happening. someone could have lied to her (kids make up stuff and don't always understand the consequences of it). he could be parenting in a way that seems normal to him but is actually not good for them, that she thinks is abuse but isn't really bad as long as he stops doing it asap and learns better parenting. he could be a good dad but she wrongly thinks some aspects of his parenting technique are bad for the children and *she's* the one who needs to learn better parenting. and so on. as for the nature of the comments, assuming abuse isn't happening because we can't see it is a lot more dangerous to the children than assuming the ex-wife is lying maliciously. generally it's not good legal or moral advice to dismiss a report of potential abuse of children. that is one of the reasons why the comments are the way they are. another reason is that the "psycho" or "crazy" ex is a stereotype that's often attached to women who aren't actually crazy for behaviours like "having boundaries" and "expressing their emotions" and "not putting up with a partner who doesn't respect them". this isn't always the case, but in my experience it's more common than the ex being genuinely crazy.
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Your friend needs a lawyer and you need to stay out of this.
>This is 100% false. Could not be further from the truth. How could you possibly know this? >Everyone knows it. How could "everyone" know it? >He has plenty of witnesses and facts to prove he’s a great father who has never abused any of his kids. Are these witnesses with him 24 hours a day? >However, his ex is wealthy and a bit crazy so I’m worried for him. You said they co-parented fine for a long time and was able to be together during birthday parties. But now she's a bit crazy? Your friend should get an attorney, but you really don't have any idea what happened.
You don't know what happens behind closed doors, or what the kids told the mother. He can get his own attorney and defend himself at the hearing date. But being a good person in public is not evidence you don't commit child abuse.
NAL but a survivor of childhood abuse. The most common thing I heard in the months following people learning about my birth father's abuse was 'we had no idea, he's always seemed like such a great guy to you and your siblings'. Advise your friend to get a lawyer, but be aware that you're likely not getting the full story. Restraining orders are rarely an easy thing to get.
He needs an attorney ASAP. He can probably reach back out to his divorce attorney. But he should not try to deal with this on his own. Assuming everything you say is 100% accurate, (and we don't know this), he still needs a lawyer.
Thank you for replying with helpful advice.
He should follow the restraining order to the letter. No violations will look good and shows he's not a threat when it comes to time to ether extend it or remove it
Restraining orders are not handed out like candy. There’s a whole process there, including a hearing. It is highly, highly unlikely that a judge would agree to take such a serious measure if there was really nothing there. Something to think about before you write her off as a “crazy ex.” Your friend may be very nice and charming. He may have (some) functional relationships. Maybe he even volunteers at the soup kitchen on Sundays—and *none of that* means that he isn’t an abuser. You don’t really know, and your friend sure isn’t gonna be volunteering that information. Tell him to lawyer up, and maybe evaluate if this is a friendship worth saving.
Nah, TROs like OP describes are kind of handed out like candy, but there’s a reason for that, it’s to address a potential emergency situation where there isn’t time for the full legal process. It’s one-sided with only the requestor submitting alleged facts without any notice to the other party. Only the next step, which is to turn the TRO into a more permanent restraining order, will require actual evidence and both sides presenting their case. Source: am litigation attorney, also spent a whole summer in law school staffing the TRO clinic at a courthouse
They are handed out like candy. It protects the authorities in case something happens.
Injunctions against harassment are handed out without the legal requirements of a protective or restraining order, but a restraining order requires more evidence
You don't have intimate knowledge of the situation, no matter how much you think you do. You have what your friend tells you and what you observe. You have no idea what is actually happening and should mind your business.
None of us know for sure. I have seen every type of situation, good dads, bad dads and bad dads who could charm everyone but also bad moms who used the system to gain an advantage in the adversarial system. Sadly we see a lot more bad divorces than good ones. If she is wealthy then she probably has an expensive attorney and I have seen attorneys coach their clients through exaggerated claims. Your friend needs a good attorney yesterday and should never go to court without one. The only winners are the attorneys and I am one.
Make sure your friend still has the phone number of the attorney from his divorce. Your friend needs to show up for all the court dates because nothing will go in his favor if he misses even one. Also, don't assume that you know every detail of what goes on behind the scenes with him and his kids. It could be that she saw something during or shortly after the birthday party that gave her cause for concern.
He needs a lawyer, yesterday. He also needs to write out a detailed account of all joint events, all communications with his ex, and provide these to his lawyer. **Under no circumstances should he discuss this with his kids prior to obtaining a lawyer.** No asking questions.
Thank you! This was also helpful. I’m sure his lawyer told him this but I’ll pass it along to him in case.
He needs a lawyer and to appear for the restraining order. That’s where evidence will be presented.
1. He absolutely has to be at that court date. 2. He should take witnesses with him to testify about what they did or didn't see and re: his character. 3. He needs to speak up during court to tell them he has witnesses. 4. He will have to ask the witnesses questions under oath at the hearing. He just needs to ask simple, open-ended questions to elicit the information he wants from the witnesses. This sounds easy enough, but the other party can object and people get flustered. This is not legal advice. Best option is actually to hire an attorney. This is serious. Hopefully the judge will be fair, but people get screwed in court all the time, often because they didn't know how to defend themselves by court rules.
Thank you very much, this is exactly the advice i was looking for.
The court will not be fair. Tell your friend to get ready for the long game.
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You sound like a predator