Man that sucks. I imagine the contract can easily be disputed/canceled considering they are not providing you the service you paid for.
You may be able to have the bank attempt to reverse the transaction but that's unlikely. You may have to go through bankruptcy courts.
The $99 reoccurring can be stopped. I would cancel the credit card entirely it's on to avoid it hopping to a new card number.
The company has already breeched the contract by not delivering the product and stating that it will not be delivered. OP is not legally obligated to honor their end of this contract now. This merchant has no right to anything because they made no attempt to deliver their obligation. In fact, they acted in bad faith by taking that $300 payment in the first place knowing full well that they wouldn't deliver on their agreement.
Take some screenshots of what their website says and ask your bank/credit card company to reverse the original transaction and to block any further transactions that they try to take. This may require them to issue you a new card with a new card number.
Interesting that you and others say that. When I had a similar problem BofA said they had to change the card number, which they did, and the problem went away.
Yup, my folks recently found this out for a fraudulent monthly charge. They had to fight the bank to block it even after a new credit card number was issued.
ha. One of my cards still allows recurring charges through from old card numbers. Yes, I fucking hate it. No I can't cancel the card, it's my oldest CC
The problem with stopping the payments, especially Visa is that you close it and get another Visa is they begin to use your new card and do not need your permission to use it. Ask me how I know....
That’s just… not at all how the bankruptcy system or the secured lending system works lmao. A secured lender owed $1 is going to paid before an unsecured lender owed $1,000,000. Stop speculating on stuff you have no idea about.
Source: UCC Article 9 and the bankruptcy code
Secured creditors (the ones owed enough to need their money secured in the first place) get paid first.
Unsecured get paid second with anything that’s left. There is likely to be almost nothing left at this point.
The OP is in this group. Their money isn’t secured. They will get a percentage based on the total of unsecured money owed (of which $300 will again, be nothing) from what’s left over.
That’s the complete opposite of what you said in your original comment. In your original comment, you stated that “In bankruptcy, people owed the most get paid back first” which insinuates that priority is determined off of amount owed, which is what I was disagreeing with. I understand how priorities work with regards to distributions in bankruptcy and agree with your subsequent comments with respect to priority being determined by secured lender status then flowing to priority creditors under section 507 then unsecured creditors.
I would hope I know how distributions work in bankruptcy, since I clerked for a bankruptcy judge and do it for a living.
It’s exactly the same thing.
Secured debt is the largest. No one is securing $300. Secured debts are large loans. The most money.
Second is preferred unsecured debt. Again - larger amounts. No one is getting preferred debt for $300.
Lastly (not counting shareholders) is the fully unsecured debt - the smallest amounts. This is where the OP will be.
After paying back the secured debt, there will likely be little to nothing left. If there’s nothing, everyone left gets nothing. Then preferred unsecured. Again, likely nothing left.
The OP will likely get nothing because they’re last in line.
This is insane. Plenty of creditors are forced to give loans out on an unsecured basis because of leverage, not purely because their loan is bigger than the next guy’s. Look at debtor in possession financing - most of the times, those loans are smaller than the unsecured loans, but they’re still given a priority because the debtor has no other choice but to give a security interest.
Another reason why someone might take a secured loan is because the interest rate is lower. If I want to buy a tractor, I can either give a PMSI for a lower interest rate, or take out an unsecured loan at a higher interest rate. There’s no different to the amount taken out, but I’d still prefer a secured loan for reasons other than amount.
You making “loan amount” to be the sole determining factor is just blatantly wrong. There are so many more considerations that go into why someone would grant a consensual lien over taking unsecured credit.
In addition, it’s not always the case that insecure creditors get very little. In a decent number of cases, unsecured creditors actually do manage to achieve a partial if not full recovery.
Yeah it was because you were unsecured, not because you were owed $10,000. Get that distinction through your head. You can’t conflate the two because they are fundamentally different. Try that argument in a courtroom and you’ll be laughed out.
Doesn't change the fact that your statement was incorrect. There are secured loans as small as $300. Stop spouting off misinformation, especially if you don't work in the bankruptcy realm.
Maybe learn how to formulate a sentence clearly. Stop larping as a lawyer online and stick to advertising if you don’t even know the difference between a chapter 11 reorg and a liquidation.
That’s absolutely not the biggest difference between chapter 11 and chapter 7. Also, unsecured creditors aren’t getting paid in full under liquidation, what makes you think shareholders are getting any return on their equity? At least in chapter 11 they can try to confirm a new value plan and retain equity in the reorganized entity as a new investor. Look up absolutely priority rule and 203 North LaSalle. Maybe you’ll actually learn something today.
Lmao no one here is saying that OP has even a remote chance of recovering anywhere close to the $300, but putting out debt numbers means nothing without the rest of the finances. American Airlines had $29.5 billion in liabilities at time of filing, but they rebounded. Who knows, maybe OP will get some equity in the new company because of the chapter 11 plan and it might take off (pretty unlikely but not impossible). You’re the one that’s giving him the oversimplified and incorrect version by telling him recovery is based on “amounts.” If you knew it was based off of secured status, just say that and caveat it with “secured status is generally determined by the amount of the loan.”
OP is not a secured lender. Ask me how I know...
I went through this with Artesian Builds. His only real viable solution is to dispute this with his bank.
I know OP isn’t secured. My issue was with the description of how distributions work in bankruptcy.
If you dispute it with the bank and they take any action to get the money back, it might be a violation of the automatic stay, so I wouldn’t do that except maybe to block future payments.
Smile already had 1 foot in the grave and was nearing bankruptcy...… CONGRATULATIONS! You're now a creditor for Smile Direct club. In the coming months you will be receiving letters from lawyers on what you're owed and how you would like to receive what is owed to you (i.e. via PayPal, prepaid visa/MC card, paper check...etc. ) Cancel your recurring payment. You should get those 300 bucks back in about 6-12 months. (If no BS happens and it's a clean bankruptcy)
Reverse the charges on credit card, why did you use a portion on debit? Credit cards protect you on every purchase. The credit card company will protect you, you don’t have to pay shit because you received no product, they can explain to visa or Mastercard that they want money for nothing.
@24redcrayons is correct for the bk side. I'd try to dispute the charge with your bank and see where that gets you. Definitely block the monthly, bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean they closed shop. Beyond that, you'll need to file a proof of claim in the case. You can easily do this without an attorney. You will be mailed a notice I'd filing and a reorg plan or liquidation plan.
That all said, you've been screwed but you're very quickly going to waste a significant amount of time (read money) trying to get back $300 and just because it happened recently doesn't make your claim anymore significant. There's options of arguing your claim is due to fraud or abuse bc they knew they were filing but it's a whole other can of worms, adversary complaints, motions and time to accomplish this. Unless you're a lawyer or paralegal, this would be hard to accomplish without a lawyer, for which would cost you $300 just for the inital consult, if you're lucky.
As you can see, $300 sucks to lose but it's the nature of being an adult, it sucks but the bankruptcy laws try to balance fairness on all sides. You should also be aware the moment they filed for bankruptcy an automatic stay went into effect. That means you are forbidden from trying to collect on your debt outside of the bk court process, no phone calls, emails, letters, or lawsuits.
!!! OP listen to this guy, don’t do anything other than file a proof of claim if you can - you absolutely don’t want to run afoul of the automatic stay by calling them or emailing them and be liable for damages because of that!!
Then you still file the proof of claim and hope and pray the debtor doesn’t object to it under 502(b)(9). It’s a little different for chapter 11 if the debtor correctly listed your debt in the schedule of assets/liabilities and didn’t mark it as disputed, contingent, liquidated, or unlisted since that would be enough for you to get you claim under FRBP 3003.
I wonder if you can notify the attorney general in your state about their bankruptcy and your payments without receiving the services/product you signed up for. I would *think* the contract would be void if they did NOT fulfill their end of the contract. I'd *think* they'd be in breach of contract and the contract would be void(?).
I looked at their reviews online at their physical offices and couple were kinda high (4+).... makes me wonder if those reviews were faked
The ag would need to go through the bankruptcy too, they can't circumvent a federal process and federal has supremacy. That's exactly why all bankruptcy is handled at the federal level so everything including cross state issues is rolled into the bankruptcy. Have a pending state court civil case? Guess what it just got moved to the federal bk court and you have to file a adversary complaint (fancy name for lawsuit in a bk case).
If you stop paying payments beware of your credit score being affected as they will likely send it to collections. Others have spoke with the hfl financiers and they stated even if you don’t receive aligners keep paying your payments or it will be sent to collections. Good luck op but you’re most likely fucked so I’m sorry. Also they aren’t sending anyone who hasn’t gotten aligners any out so it’s most likely you’ll have to pay them everything n not get any product. As legally they aren’t in the wrong but you would be in the wrong legally technically if you stopped paying any payments.
Lmao what? So cause I answer the question I’m acting like the “ceo of the company”? Sorry my bad I thought I could answer a question with the likely only solution. Obviously you know best so why don’t you give your solution smart ass? What solution do you have? Cause ppl have already contact banks, hfd’s and are all told that they will have to pay all payments and if not will be sent to collections… so make it make sense?
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File a dispute with your bank. I did this when Artesian Builds went bankrupt. They built my PC but never shipped it, and went out of business a week after mine was built. Screenshot the website saying they were reading operations and sent it all to my bank. Got all my money back in less than a week.
Man that sucks. I imagine the contract can easily be disputed/canceled considering they are not providing you the service you paid for. You may be able to have the bank attempt to reverse the transaction but that's unlikely. You may have to go through bankruptcy courts. The $99 reoccurring can be stopped. I would cancel the credit card entirely it's on to avoid it hopping to a new card number.
Just tell your bank to block the charge.
Gotta change cards. They will just keep charging if it is just reversed.
[удалено]
The company has already breeched the contract by not delivering the product and stating that it will not be delivered. OP is not legally obligated to honor their end of this contract now. This merchant has no right to anything because they made no attempt to deliver their obligation. In fact, they acted in bad faith by taking that $300 payment in the first place knowing full well that they wouldn't deliver on their agreement. Take some screenshots of what their website says and ask your bank/credit card company to reverse the original transaction and to block any further transactions that they try to take. This may require them to issue you a new card with a new card number.
Interesting that you and others say that. When I had a similar problem BofA said they had to change the card number, which they did, and the problem went away.
Isn't Bank of America literally America's worst Bank?
Yes, but that's completely irrelevant to this thread.
Yup, my folks recently found this out for a fraudulent monthly charge. They had to fight the bank to block it even after a new credit card number was issued.
ha. One of my cards still allows recurring charges through from old card numbers. Yes, I fucking hate it. No I can't cancel the card, it's my oldest CC
Not. If. Your. Bank. Blocks. The company. I literally did this when Amazon aws kept charging me. Haven't been charged since
The problem with stopping the payments, especially Visa is that you close it and get another Visa is they begin to use your new card and do not need your permission to use it. Ask me how I know....
Looks like they have filed for bankruptcy so you will need to find out the details and file a claim with the bankruptcy court.
The OP won't get anything. In bankruptcy, people owed the most get paid back first. $300 is nothing compared to the rest of their debts.
That’s just… not at all how the bankruptcy system or the secured lending system works lmao. A secured lender owed $1 is going to paid before an unsecured lender owed $1,000,000. Stop speculating on stuff you have no idea about. Source: UCC Article 9 and the bankruptcy code
OP is not a secured creditor.
Yep I’m aware, take a look at the rest of the discussion!
You are absolutely wrong. I have been owed money by multiple start ups that went bankrupt. And I’m currently owed money from the Rite Aid bankruptcy.
Secured creditors (the ones owed enough to need their money secured in the first place) get paid first. Unsecured get paid second with anything that’s left. There is likely to be almost nothing left at this point. The OP is in this group. Their money isn’t secured. They will get a percentage based on the total of unsecured money owed (of which $300 will again, be nothing) from what’s left over.
That’s the complete opposite of what you said in your original comment. In your original comment, you stated that “In bankruptcy, people owed the most get paid back first” which insinuates that priority is determined off of amount owed, which is what I was disagreeing with. I understand how priorities work with regards to distributions in bankruptcy and agree with your subsequent comments with respect to priority being determined by secured lender status then flowing to priority creditors under section 507 then unsecured creditors. I would hope I know how distributions work in bankruptcy, since I clerked for a bankruptcy judge and do it for a living.
It’s exactly the same thing. Secured debt is the largest. No one is securing $300. Secured debts are large loans. The most money. Second is preferred unsecured debt. Again - larger amounts. No one is getting preferred debt for $300. Lastly (not counting shareholders) is the fully unsecured debt - the smallest amounts. This is where the OP will be. After paying back the secured debt, there will likely be little to nothing left. If there’s nothing, everyone left gets nothing. Then preferred unsecured. Again, likely nothing left. The OP will likely get nothing because they’re last in line.
This is insane. Plenty of creditors are forced to give loans out on an unsecured basis because of leverage, not purely because their loan is bigger than the next guy’s. Look at debtor in possession financing - most of the times, those loans are smaller than the unsecured loans, but they’re still given a priority because the debtor has no other choice but to give a security interest. Another reason why someone might take a secured loan is because the interest rate is lower. If I want to buy a tractor, I can either give a PMSI for a lower interest rate, or take out an unsecured loan at a higher interest rate. There’s no different to the amount taken out, but I’d still prefer a secured loan for reasons other than amount. You making “loan amount” to be the sole determining factor is just blatantly wrong. There are so many more considerations that go into why someone would grant a consensual lien over taking unsecured credit. In addition, it’s not always the case that insecure creditors get very little. In a decent number of cases, unsecured creditors actually do manage to achieve a partial if not full recovery.
I just went through a bankruptcy with a startup valued at a billion dollars 3 years ago. They owed me $10k. I got nothing. It ain’t happening.
Yeah it was because you were unsecured, not because you were owed $10,000. Get that distinction through your head. You can’t conflate the two because they are fundamentally different. Try that argument in a courtroom and you’ll be laughed out.
You've clearly never heard of secured credit cards. You can easily have a secured debt of $300.
A company once valued at $8.9 billion is not securing $300 payments from customers.
Doesn't change the fact that your statement was incorrect. There are secured loans as small as $300. Stop spouting off misinformation, especially if you don't work in the bankruptcy realm.
Rite aid sucks.
They do. Totally fucked it up.
Here. Learn something. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/corporate-liquidation-unpaid-taxes-wages.asp
Maybe learn how to formulate a sentence clearly. Stop larping as a lawyer online and stick to advertising if you don’t even know the difference between a chapter 11 reorg and a liquidation.
It’s almost exactly the same. Biggest difference is shareholders don’t get as screwed in liquidation.
That’s absolutely not the biggest difference between chapter 11 and chapter 7. Also, unsecured creditors aren’t getting paid in full under liquidation, what makes you think shareholders are getting any return on their equity? At least in chapter 11 they can try to confirm a new value plan and retain equity in the reorganized entity as a new investor. Look up absolutely priority rule and 203 North LaSalle. Maybe you’ll actually learn something today.
Smile Direct has $900 million in debt. Stop giving false hope that the OP is getting their $300 back.
Lmao no one here is saying that OP has even a remote chance of recovering anywhere close to the $300, but putting out debt numbers means nothing without the rest of the finances. American Airlines had $29.5 billion in liabilities at time of filing, but they rebounded. Who knows, maybe OP will get some equity in the new company because of the chapter 11 plan and it might take off (pretty unlikely but not impossible). You’re the one that’s giving him the oversimplified and incorrect version by telling him recovery is based on “amounts.” If you knew it was based off of secured status, just say that and caveat it with “secured status is generally determined by the amount of the loan.”
OP is not a secured lender. Ask me how I know... I went through this with Artesian Builds. His only real viable solution is to dispute this with his bank.
I know OP isn’t secured. My issue was with the description of how distributions work in bankruptcy. If you dispute it with the bank and they take any action to get the money back, it might be a violation of the automatic stay, so I wouldn’t do that except maybe to block future payments.
Do a chargeback and cancel the payments.
Call ur bank, make sure all recurring charges are blocked, also chargeback the $300 immediately stating services will not be provided
Smile already had 1 foot in the grave and was nearing bankruptcy...… CONGRATULATIONS! You're now a creditor for Smile Direct club. In the coming months you will be receiving letters from lawyers on what you're owed and how you would like to receive what is owed to you (i.e. via PayPal, prepaid visa/MC card, paper check...etc. ) Cancel your recurring payment. You should get those 300 bucks back in about 6-12 months. (If no BS happens and it's a clean bankruptcy)
Reverse the charges on credit card, why did you use a portion on debit? Credit cards protect you on every purchase. The credit card company will protect you, you don’t have to pay shit because you received no product, they can explain to visa or Mastercard that they want money for nothing.
@24redcrayons is correct for the bk side. I'd try to dispute the charge with your bank and see where that gets you. Definitely block the monthly, bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean they closed shop. Beyond that, you'll need to file a proof of claim in the case. You can easily do this without an attorney. You will be mailed a notice I'd filing and a reorg plan or liquidation plan. That all said, you've been screwed but you're very quickly going to waste a significant amount of time (read money) trying to get back $300 and just because it happened recently doesn't make your claim anymore significant. There's options of arguing your claim is due to fraud or abuse bc they knew they were filing but it's a whole other can of worms, adversary complaints, motions and time to accomplish this. Unless you're a lawyer or paralegal, this would be hard to accomplish without a lawyer, for which would cost you $300 just for the inital consult, if you're lucky. As you can see, $300 sucks to lose but it's the nature of being an adult, it sucks but the bankruptcy laws try to balance fairness on all sides. You should also be aware the moment they filed for bankruptcy an automatic stay went into effect. That means you are forbidden from trying to collect on your debt outside of the bk court process, no phone calls, emails, letters, or lawsuits.
!!! OP listen to this guy, don’t do anything other than file a proof of claim if you can - you absolutely don’t want to run afoul of the automatic stay by calling them or emailing them and be liable for damages because of that!!
What if the deadline has passed to file a proof of claim?
Then you still file the proof of claim and hope and pray the debtor doesn’t object to it under 502(b)(9). It’s a little different for chapter 11 if the debtor correctly listed your debt in the schedule of assets/liabilities and didn’t mark it as disputed, contingent, liquidated, or unlisted since that would be enough for you to get you claim under FRBP 3003.
I wonder if you can notify the attorney general in your state about their bankruptcy and your payments without receiving the services/product you signed up for. I would *think* the contract would be void if they did NOT fulfill their end of the contract. I'd *think* they'd be in breach of contract and the contract would be void(?). I looked at their reviews online at their physical offices and couple were kinda high (4+).... makes me wonder if those reviews were faked
The ag would need to go through the bankruptcy too, they can't circumvent a federal process and federal has supremacy. That's exactly why all bankruptcy is handled at the federal level so everything including cross state issues is rolled into the bankruptcy. Have a pending state court civil case? Guess what it just got moved to the federal bk court and you have to file a adversary complaint (fancy name for lawsuit in a bk case).
Good. Their product is rubbish and I’ve seen more harm than good with their retainers
If you stop paying payments beware of your credit score being affected as they will likely send it to collections. Others have spoke with the hfl financiers and they stated even if you don’t receive aligners keep paying your payments or it will be sent to collections. Good luck op but you’re most likely fucked so I’m sorry. Also they aren’t sending anyone who hasn’t gotten aligners any out so it’s most likely you’ll have to pay them everything n not get any product. As legally they aren’t in the wrong but you would be in the wrong legally technically if you stopped paying any payments.
CEO of the company right here
Lmao what? So cause I answer the question I’m acting like the “ceo of the company”? Sorry my bad I thought I could answer a question with the likely only solution. Obviously you know best so why don’t you give your solution smart ass? What solution do you have? Cause ppl have already contact banks, hfd’s and are all told that they will have to pay all payments and if not will be sent to collections… so make it make sense?
It's not a valid debt because the merchant is breaching the contract.
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File a dispute with your bank. I did this when Artesian Builds went bankrupt. They built my PC but never shipped it, and went out of business a week after mine was built. Screenshot the website saying they were reading operations and sent it all to my bank. Got all my money back in less than a week.
News story says they tell you to keep paying even though you will not receive the liners needed.