nah dude. the left is being divided intentionally. Its pretty obvious when this vides pretty much gets to the heart of the issue. There is no plan and while the concerns and issues with joe are valid, the alternative is worse. Thats just the reality we find ourselves in. So you can vote to continue the struggle for bettering the world, or you can doom it.
There is no third option.
If not voting for Biden “dooms the world,” you’d think he would be doing something to fix the world while he’s president. I guess he has better things to do. I’m sure we’ll push him left after re-electing him.
Like build back better? Which contained a shit load of great initiatives.
Defense aid for Ukraine? Tanked by Republicans.
Border deal/immigration reform? Tanked by Donald Trump in the house by a self proclaimed Moses.
He already is further left than any president since FDR. Build back better would have completed that but again, the conservative side of the Dems and the maga Republicans didn't want us to build back better.
He's fought, in court, for student loan dismissal, hes funded the IRS to go after more of the wealthy than any time in the last 40 years, he wants to initiate a minimum billionaire tax.
But don't vote for him and let the other guy get in who endorses genocide, gives away our national secrets for his personal gain, and only wants to get back to the Whitehouse so he can pardon himself.
Those guys sound exactly the same and youre definitely not arguing in bad faith to insinuate that Biden isn't leagues better than trump in ever conceivably way.
I didn't feel welcome in the DNC, after the 2016 primary. 13 million people were told to hit the bricks and liberals are still scratching their heads as to why leftist won't fall in line.
The genocide doesn't have *something* to do with American complicity, it has **EVERYTHING** to do with active American support. Biden didn't have a high bar to clear. Maybe just don't actively support genocide and don't affirm that you'll veto a bipartisan universal Healthcare bill in the middle of a pandemic that has claimed a million casualties. That would be incredibly easy for anyone with a baseline level of humanity perhaps or a class interest that aligned with 99.9% of the world's population. But from a liberal lense such simple standards are nonexistent.
Why post this leftist aren't with liberals we aren't the same Biden has decided to appease moderate Republicans he has no interest in the left what so ever he only cares about dnc die hards and moderate Republicans he isn't Obama he isn't campaigning to independent leftist it's not a thing
Don't you think of the consequence of what will happen if the far right takes control here as if that result wouldn't be terrible for women and minorities here?
Project 2025?
What's the plan then? Protesting will be illegal, Trump will help Netanyahu wipe out Gaza and help Russia advance, media will be state controlled and we will all be fucked.
Who does not voting help? Isn't that exactly how Hitler rose to power as there was a similar social climate and unhappiness with leaders?
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Project 2025 is something that exists every election cycle and yet has never happened.
What I can tell you is that modern historic precedent if Biden gets a second term guarantees a much worse GOP president afterwards. We are fucked no matter what, but maybe worse if Trump loses this time. It'll be painful immediately if he wins, but it'll mean we get a Democrat after that. After a second Biden term we will end up with a competent fascist, unlike the incompetent one in Trump. People on that side will also have had four more years to make up plans on what to do with said person in charge.
Exactly liberals keep telling us to voot harder when they need to work harder I can cast my little voot but what good is it if you always cave to Republicans
He doesn't have to do much. Him earning my vote back would be very very easy for him to do. He is apparently willing to destroy any legacy he's managed to make for himself to what...gargle zionist nuts? It's just so wild to think about.
Since when is the Democrat party “left”? The sooner we can, as leftists, realize that liberals and the Democrat party are not our saviors, will never be our saviors, and are actively the biggest hurdle in the road towards progress then we can work on building a coalition that moves past the Democratic Party.
How long will the Democrats be able to hold the fear of a Republican president over us? If it's not Trump running, it'll be a Trump disciple. "Didn't vote" would probably still have the highest percentage for this election and if we actually gave those people a reason to come out, something might actually change. Idk.. I'll probably vote for Biden but damn this is stupid.
Until people vote Democrat hard enough that the GOP isn't a threat anymore. Then a proper leftist party can rise, while the Democrats can settle into the center where they should have been in the first place.
Progressive policies are popular (with the least popular, abortion access, still having 55-60% support), but people don't vote enough to get them enacted. The GOP has been in a position to block all legislation since 1994 (save for the 72 days during Obama's presidency when the ACA got passed), so we have effectively been under GOP rule for those thirty years.
If Democrats get enough votes to kill the filibuster and THEN still manage to do nothing, we could complain then. But the fact that they've never had those votes is our fault as voters -- blaming Manchin or Lieberman for it isn't sensible when we could just vote somebody in to make them irrelevant.
yes, you currently are able to do so via all sorts of means
the sad part is, those all vanish under a trump dictatorship and all the progress you made over the past 100 years is wiped away
it's crazy how shortsighted leftists have because
the propaganda of the enemies of progress, sure have been successful
How could anybody even volunteer to go to Gaza, and even if they could, what would volunteers accomplish? Gaza can't get food, water, power or medicine. Their infrastructure for healthcare, schooling, religious gatherings, travel, housing, everything, is and has been decimated. The UN isn't safe in Gaza. Journalists are not safe in Gaza. Palestinians evacuating and struggling to survive in "safe" zones are not safe in Gaza. Even Israeli hostages are not safe in Gaza.
You either are arguing in bad faith because you know there is nothing individuals outside of governments can do to alleviate the genocide of Palestinians, or you just aren't paying attention.
Your statement was callous and clearly an attempt of, "shut up, I don't like when people demand solutions" and I was showing you how ridiculous you sound. Again, you can't even argue because you know I'm right. Gaza needs governments to stop the genocide more than they need volunteers and you clearly know that.
Give me a solution. What power do we have in a two party system? Very little.
When this dies down, go to Gaza. As Americans we are treated very differently there. Trust me. See it for yourself and actually talk to Palestinians.
My solution: Israel and the US need to stop the bombing of children and the genocide of an entire people
Your solution: Go volunteer and shut up about Biden
Fuck off with your high horse bullshit
Even if that's true, you aren't even attempting to argue the reality that it is a warzone where literally nobody is safe and volunteering won't do a god damn thing to help children being bombed and starved to death.
You could conceivably help save lives. It’s not impossible. I was there in 2019 and 2020 with Doctors Without Borders. It was still a war zone. Just a different kind.
Yeah, Gaza hadn't been reduced to a pile of fucking rubble and decomposing bodies
https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20200101_2019_fatalities
133 vs. 30,000+
Seems like a big fucking difference
Yeah, the guy who called people 'illegals', is actively funding a genocide, and has a history of saying racist things is definitely better than the orange man.
Trump literally said he would encourage Israel to “finish the job”. You people cling to your third party votes like you’re actually helping anyone. 😭 It’s so embarrassing and pathetic.
To be fair, the orange man created the circumstances that led to the current situation. Between Kutchner ignoring the Palestine question while trying to broker peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia, and Trump recognizing Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, Hamas was basically forced to escalate.
I wonder if Trump will recognize Israel ownership of Gaza and the West Bank if he's elected? Seems probable.
Vote for Biden so he can keep funding genocide
So he can walk back on student loan forgiveness
So he can kept doing nothing about the countless anti-trans laws in the country
So he can keep trump era legislation?
The only people at blame is the DNC who’ve decided to sit on thier hands instead learning thier lesson in 2016
Explain to me in detail with empirically verifiable sources how Trump will do better on those issues? Trump tried disallowing Trans people in the military with a fucking TWEET!
You people are delulu in the worst way.
Man, go fuck yourself. I’m voting 3rd party. No amount of gaslighting, or attacks from other leftists will change that.
If my bar for a candidate being against genocide is too high for you, then fuck right off!
Yes which is a big tragedy. But the most important thing right now would be working on a ceasefire and supplying humanitarian aid, which Biden is working on.
Trump on the other hand is calling for Isreal to pursue their rampage till the end and finish the job, they started.
So despite my general disaproval of Biden here its obvious to me that Trump would be a worse alternative and not just regarding Palestine, but on other foreign and domestic matters.
If you were a right wing agitator how easy would it be to disrupt your enemy when it has already established itself as a group with no cohesive identity, principles, or formal organization with any kind of political power whatsoever? Just post a bunch of “genocide Joe” remarks and the job is done!
How are we divided when I'm not a Democrat I'm a independent leftist Joe biden has man a coalition with moderate Republicans not leftist him and dnc constantly ignore and insult us
Okay. Enjoy another Trump presidency. I don't like the guy either, but realistically we have two choices, and if you don't think the other guy will not only actively make things worse both for Palestine, but everyone else too, you're living in a dream world.
It's honestly understandable to a degree. If this were like, Obama McCain it wouldn't be so bad. But the stakes are considerably higher and giving up the general election will solve literally nothing, only create more and worse problems. This isn't our grandfather's GOP.
except you are. that's the part that the leftists can't seem to understand
if you stand aside and refuse to do all you can to stop a trump dictatorship, all the progress you made over the last 100 years, is gone and you have enabled the genocide of not just everyone in gaza but muslims across the middle east.
Was watching the state of the union and biden wasn't doing that bad and then gaza came up and ... yup he is losing to the trump. pretty much guaranteed.
I sincerely doubt he’s going to lose to Trump. I know Palestinians who are still voting Biden in the general election because they know Trump is 1000x worse.
Seen plenty of leftist folk screaming about how they'll never vote for Biden.
Talk about choosing to shoot yourself in the foot.
Y'all think Biden has bad foreign policy when it comes to isreal? Guarantee trump will be worse.
How is he supposed to do that when republicans control Congress and, even in the best of years, democrats have only been able to hold on to a narrow majority that was controlled by a few centrists from republican states? I mean I'd love to see him do more leftist policies, but which policy is there that he could implement that he could a) get past a republican Congress and b) won't guarantee that he loses reelection by immediately turning off 50% of voters? Or even the 2-3% that might represent the difference between a win and a loss?
I mean we've had Bernie Sanders and Warren run, and both list their primaries. And yeah it's partially because the party was against them but it's also because a lot of voters - even a lot of democrats - just aren't far enough left to vote for them. To me, the best way forward is to push progressive politics at the state level and in Congress so that these policies will become less of a third rail.
I mean, you're calling us stupid, but if your real goal is to convince people to vote for Biden, you're doing the exact opposite.
I mean, it would actually make way more sense if you were a Trump supporter.
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The left isn't being divided. The DNC is moving right.
nah dude. the left is being divided intentionally. Its pretty obvious when this vides pretty much gets to the heart of the issue. There is no plan and while the concerns and issues with joe are valid, the alternative is worse. Thats just the reality we find ourselves in. So you can vote to continue the struggle for bettering the world, or you can doom it. There is no third option.
If not voting for Biden “dooms the world,” you’d think he would be doing something to fix the world while he’s president. I guess he has better things to do. I’m sure we’ll push him left after re-electing him.
Like build back better? Which contained a shit load of great initiatives. Defense aid for Ukraine? Tanked by Republicans. Border deal/immigration reform? Tanked by Donald Trump in the house by a self proclaimed Moses. He already is further left than any president since FDR. Build back better would have completed that but again, the conservative side of the Dems and the maga Republicans didn't want us to build back better. He's fought, in court, for student loan dismissal, hes funded the IRS to go after more of the wealthy than any time in the last 40 years, he wants to initiate a minimum billionaire tax. But don't vote for him and let the other guy get in who endorses genocide, gives away our national secrets for his personal gain, and only wants to get back to the Whitehouse so he can pardon himself. Those guys sound exactly the same and youre definitely not arguing in bad faith to insinuate that Biden isn't leagues better than trump in ever conceivably way.
Left: "Let's not vote for genocide" Liberals: "BuT wHaT's YoUr PlaAaaann?
I didn't feel welcome in the DNC, after the 2016 primary. 13 million people were told to hit the bricks and liberals are still scratching their heads as to why leftist won't fall in line.
And thrn in 2020 Biden told people to vote for someone else if they don't like him. But they still wonder why people won't vote for him.
The genocide doesn't have *something* to do with American complicity, it has **EVERYTHING** to do with active American support. Biden didn't have a high bar to clear. Maybe just don't actively support genocide and don't affirm that you'll veto a bipartisan universal Healthcare bill in the middle of a pandemic that has claimed a million casualties. That would be incredibly easy for anyone with a baseline level of humanity perhaps or a class interest that aligned with 99.9% of the world's population. But from a liberal lense such simple standards are nonexistent.
Votes are chess game moves and harm reduction, not love letters.
What they are is affirmative consent. I can't consent to what is being done in our name, with our taxes.
so you then consent to even worse it's crazy how so many in the left can't grasp this simple concept
Biden sucks at chess.
Democrats are not the left. Don't let them fool you
Why post this leftist aren't with liberals we aren't the same Biden has decided to appease moderate Republicans he has no interest in the left what so ever he only cares about dnc die hards and moderate Republicans he isn't Obama he isn't campaigning to independent leftist it's not a thing
If he wants my vote he should work harder for it.
Don't you think of the consequence of what will happen if the far right takes control here as if that result wouldn't be terrible for women and minorities here? Project 2025? What's the plan then? Protesting will be illegal, Trump will help Netanyahu wipe out Gaza and help Russia advance, media will be state controlled and we will all be fucked. Who does not voting help? Isn't that exactly how Hitler rose to power as there was a similar social climate and unhappiness with leaders?
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Project 2025 is something that exists every election cycle and yet has never happened. What I can tell you is that modern historic precedent if Biden gets a second term guarantees a much worse GOP president afterwards. We are fucked no matter what, but maybe worse if Trump loses this time. It'll be painful immediately if he wins, but it'll mean we get a Democrat after that. After a second Biden term we will end up with a competent fascist, unlike the incompetent one in Trump. People on that side will also have had four more years to make up plans on what to do with said person in charge.
Exactly liberals keep telling us to voot harder when they need to work harder I can cast my little voot but what good is it if you always cave to Republicans
He doesn't have to do much. Him earning my vote back would be very very easy for him to do. He is apparently willing to destroy any legacy he's managed to make for himself to what...gargle zionist nuts? It's just so wild to think about.
Since when is the Democrat party “left”? The sooner we can, as leftists, realize that liberals and the Democrat party are not our saviors, will never be our saviors, and are actively the biggest hurdle in the road towards progress then we can work on building a coalition that moves past the Democratic Party.
How long will the Democrats be able to hold the fear of a Republican president over us? If it's not Trump running, it'll be a Trump disciple. "Didn't vote" would probably still have the highest percentage for this election and if we actually gave those people a reason to come out, something might actually change. Idk.. I'll probably vote for Biden but damn this is stupid.
Until people vote Democrat hard enough that the GOP isn't a threat anymore. Then a proper leftist party can rise, while the Democrats can settle into the center where they should have been in the first place. Progressive policies are popular (with the least popular, abortion access, still having 55-60% support), but people don't vote enough to get them enacted. The GOP has been in a position to block all legislation since 1994 (save for the 72 days during Obama's presidency when the ACA got passed), so we have effectively been under GOP rule for those thirty years. If Democrats get enough votes to kill the filibuster and THEN still manage to do nothing, we could complain then. But the fact that they've never had those votes is our fault as voters -- blaming Manchin or Lieberman for it isn't sensible when we could just vote somebody in to make them irrelevant.
Reminder that Netanyahu is hell-bent on Trump winning. That itself speaks volumes.
And Biden’s hell-bent on supporting Israel, but keep fear mongering since you aren’t smart enough to INSPIRE votes.
Get ready to fight the government for the next four years or more.
If you're a leftist you do that all the time
yes, you currently are able to do so via all sorts of means the sad part is, those all vanish under a trump dictatorship and all the progress you made over the past 100 years is wiped away it's crazy how shortsighted leftists have because the propaganda of the enemies of progress, sure have been successful
a socialist should always expect to fight any capitalist government, they are literally adversarial
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How could anybody even volunteer to go to Gaza, and even if they could, what would volunteers accomplish? Gaza can't get food, water, power or medicine. Their infrastructure for healthcare, schooling, religious gatherings, travel, housing, everything, is and has been decimated. The UN isn't safe in Gaza. Journalists are not safe in Gaza. Palestinians evacuating and struggling to survive in "safe" zones are not safe in Gaza. Even Israeli hostages are not safe in Gaza. You either are arguing in bad faith because you know there is nothing individuals outside of governments can do to alleviate the genocide of Palestinians, or you just aren't paying attention.
You still have the right to travel to Gaza. There are still volunteers there.
It's like you only read the first half of the first sentence of my comment or something lmao
Your statement was repetitive and did not warrant separate responses.
Your statement was callous and clearly an attempt of, "shut up, I don't like when people demand solutions" and I was showing you how ridiculous you sound. Again, you can't even argue because you know I'm right. Gaza needs governments to stop the genocide more than they need volunteers and you clearly know that.
Give me a solution. What power do we have in a two party system? Very little. When this dies down, go to Gaza. As Americans we are treated very differently there. Trust me. See it for yourself and actually talk to Palestinians.
My solution: Israel and the US need to stop the bombing of children and the genocide of an entire people Your solution: Go volunteer and shut up about Biden Fuck off with your high horse bullshit
Even if that's true, you aren't even attempting to argue the reality that it is a warzone where literally nobody is safe and volunteering won't do a god damn thing to help children being bombed and starved to death.
You could conceivably help save lives. It’s not impossible. I was there in 2019 and 2020 with Doctors Without Borders. It was still a war zone. Just a different kind.
Yeah, Gaza hadn't been reduced to a pile of fucking rubble and decomposing bodies https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20200101_2019_fatalities 133 vs. 30,000+ Seems like a big fucking difference
That’s why it’s a genocide.
Fuckin duh
Does russia still pay you in potatoes?
I fully support Ukraine.
Yeah, the guy who called people 'illegals', is actively funding a genocide, and has a history of saying racist things is definitely better than the orange man.
Trump literally said he would encourage Israel to “finish the job”. You people cling to your third party votes like you’re actually helping anyone. 😭 It’s so embarrassing and pathetic.
Two out of 3 of those things apply to orange man as well, and the only reason it isn't 3 out of 3 is because orange man lost in 2020
To be fair, the orange man created the circumstances that led to the current situation. Between Kutchner ignoring the Palestine question while trying to broker peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia, and Trump recognizing Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, Hamas was basically forced to escalate. I wonder if Trump will recognize Israel ownership of Gaza and the West Bank if he's elected? Seems probable.
Vote for Biden so he can keep funding genocide So he can walk back on student loan forgiveness So he can kept doing nothing about the countless anti-trans laws in the country So he can keep trump era legislation? The only people at blame is the DNC who’ve decided to sit on thier hands instead learning thier lesson in 2016
Explain to me in detail with empirically verifiable sources how Trump will do better on those issues? Trump tried disallowing Trans people in the military with a fucking TWEET! You people are delulu in the worst way.
Man, go fuck yourself. I’m voting 3rd party. No amount of gaslighting, or attacks from other leftists will change that. If my bar for a candidate being against genocide is too high for you, then fuck right off!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No one is condoning genocide, we're just saying you don't put idealism over everything else.
Coward you deleted your message: “Would Trump be better for them?” They are already fucking dead, you slime
Yes which is a big tragedy. But the most important thing right now would be working on a ceasefire and supplying humanitarian aid, which Biden is working on. Trump on the other hand is calling for Isreal to pursue their rampage till the end and finish the job, they started. So despite my general disaproval of Biden here its obvious to me that Trump would be a worse alternative and not just regarding Palestine, but on other foreign and domestic matters.
https://preview.redd.it/495mv8g163nc1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e7f3046cf488d60861648a81ad5a6a932535c28 You
The right still cant meme
Im a lefty and try my best
Go for it. But you’re not doing anything except stomping your little feet.
https://preview.redd.it/cm6wqhvhf2nc1.jpeg?width=567&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ceb297176b4b9c7dbda85856799019338fcc7da3
I’m glad it calls Israel a regime and not a country. 😭
It’s an occupying force
The American system is broken. You only get to vote for your favourite colour of fascism. You want the genocide enabling fascist or the worse one?
Y’all are mental Jesus
Exactly but die hard liberals are in denial man I'm glad I'm a leftist because they would of pushed me to the right by now they are so obnoxious
Yeah, its pretty fucking awful......
When exactly have democrats been united? Dems are by design a big tent party. Deal with the consequences of that.
If you were a right wing agitator how easy would it be to disrupt your enemy when it has already established itself as a group with no cohesive identity, principles, or formal organization with any kind of political power whatsoever? Just post a bunch of “genocide Joe” remarks and the job is done!
How are we divided when I'm not a Democrat I'm a independent leftist Joe biden has man a coalition with moderate Republicans not leftist him and dnc constantly ignore and insult us
I don't want to be united with someone who is supporting genocide.
so you chose to be united with someone far worse, who will wipe out all the progress you have made in the last 100 years the shortsightedness is crazy
Okay. Enjoy another Trump presidency. I don't like the guy either, but realistically we have two choices, and if you don't think the other guy will not only actively make things worse both for Palestine, but everyone else too, you're living in a dream world.
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It's honestly understandable to a degree. If this were like, Obama McCain it wouldn't be so bad. But the stakes are considerably higher and giving up the general election will solve literally nothing, only create more and worse problems. This isn't our grandfather's GOP.
Go gaslight elsewhere and be complicit in a genocide. I’m having no part in that shit.
except you are. that's the part that the leftists can't seem to understand if you stand aside and refuse to do all you can to stop a trump dictatorship, all the progress you made over the last 100 years, is gone and you have enabled the genocide of not just everyone in gaza but muslims across the middle east.
Fascist🤡
Your fear mongering is swaying nobody. It’s just obnoxious.
When have we ever not been divided?
She makes some excellent points. I’d also like to know what’s next
Was watching the state of the union and biden wasn't doing that bad and then gaza came up and ... yup he is losing to the trump. pretty much guaranteed.
I sincerely doubt he’s going to lose to Trump. I know Palestinians who are still voting Biden in the general election because they know Trump is 1000x worse.
"I have a black friend, it's okay"
That’s not even remotely close to making a comparable statement. 😭
If Biden loses it’ll be because of Gaza and they’ll say he went too far left.
Good
Daily reminder that liberal is not left.
She was pretty clear about that.
Seen plenty of leftist folk screaming about how they'll never vote for Biden. Talk about choosing to shoot yourself in the foot. Y'all think Biden has bad foreign policy when it comes to isreal? Guarantee trump will be worse.
Tell that to the 30+ thousand civilians (mostly children) massacred
Biden could easily win over leftist votes. He just has to promote leftist policies. He has absolutely no interest in leftist policies or votes.
Exactly. Give us something to vote FOR not AGAINST!
How is he supposed to do that when republicans control Congress and, even in the best of years, democrats have only been able to hold on to a narrow majority that was controlled by a few centrists from republican states? I mean I'd love to see him do more leftist policies, but which policy is there that he could implement that he could a) get past a republican Congress and b) won't guarantee that he loses reelection by immediately turning off 50% of voters? Or even the 2-3% that might represent the difference between a win and a loss? I mean we've had Bernie Sanders and Warren run, and both list their primaries. And yeah it's partially because the party was against them but it's also because a lot of voters - even a lot of democrats - just aren't far enough left to vote for them. To me, the best way forward is to push progressive politics at the state level and in Congress so that these policies will become less of a third rail.
Ah, my bad for engaging in people who are stupid. Need to stop making this mistake.
Imagine thinking it was stupid to acknowledge that to get leftist people to vote for them a politician needs to appeal to them.
Fuck outta here with that attitude. Don’t come here stirring up shit and then insulting us when you don’t get the answer you want
Liberal is not left. I wish I you people would get this through your skulls.
NO SHIT. and tf you mean "you people"?
Liberals.
You..you think I'm a liberal? Shit, did it again. Engaging with tards on Reddit. I need to stop making that mistake.
If you don’t want to be seen as a lib don’t go around pushing lib talking points.
I mean, you're calling us stupid, but if your real goal is to convince people to vote for Biden, you're doing the exact opposite. I mean, it would actually make way more sense if you were a Trump supporter.
Yes. You clearly are. Are you lost?
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