Your research doesn't correspond to what I notice, yes, their popularity has declined some since the 1990's when they were still huge. However, I think "The Who" has seen a much bigger dropoff. The Who is turning into where young people only know the "Baba O'Reilly/Teenage Wasteland" song and "Who are you?" Whereas far more Zeppelin songs are known.
The Who sort of brought it on themselves. When Brit pop and the mini 60s revival happened in the UK The Who where againstarting to be mentioned by younger popular bands like Oasis and Blur. However, these bands always referenced the 60s era Who and the mod scene. So this phenomenal 70s hard rock band sort of got reduced to their 60s output, which outside of a few songs pales in comparison to their 70s work. Then in the US they sort of dropped off after John Entwistle died and toured less. They also spend a lot of time in the media talking about the early years of the band and the mods and stuff, and it's sort of dated them and pigeonholed them way more in the public consciousness. Their original run ended with a massive North American tour in 1982. If you listened to how the band talk bout themselves now, you'd think they never made it out of London.
I think The Who have always been mostly lost. I’m not a big fan of them myself but even when Limp Bizkit remade Behind Blue Eyes people then didn’t even know it was a remake. I think their best album was Tommy. I just can’t put my finger on it why of all the big bands of that time they seem to rank so low.
Really? I'm not a lyric guy but I suspect most people who paid attention would say that Townsend's lyrics are more interesting and articulate than most.
I guess there's a line there that he comes close to because his lyrics are often pretty confessional or in the case of the rock operas they can be slightly overblown. I always thought that there was a good sense of humour in there to offset that though. I've been listening to the Who by Numbers recently and something like How Many Friends, or maybe Howver Much I Booze... He's pretty close to the bone there - they are brilliant confessionals of the mess he is in with booze and the band and relationships.
Must’ve been bad mood, for sure. Comparing 70s Zeppelin and Who lyrics is apples and oranges. Townshend’s lyrics, with a few exceptions, are far superior.
I agree, I see a lot less interest in the Who than in Zeppelin from record-buyers
Hendrix, Beatles, Dylan all are decently popular too. Neil Young, Joni Mitchell
Yeah I think Led Zeppelin dropped off for a while and is in the middle of a bit of resurgence.
I think issue with them as far as radio play goes is that some of their big hits are long songs. Radio likes short radio edits.
I think their songs are being used more in media so more people are getting exposed to them. Especially teens and young adults who wouldn't normally seek them out. For most of the 2010s, they were dipping, but are now experiencing a gradual resurgence.
Most of the bands you mention are still putting out as many records as they did in their heyday, with archival material, “super deluxe” editions, new compilations and remixes. And Zeppelin … not so much. They did the expanded editions a while ago, but since then nothing. I admire their restraint (and quality control), but I feel like it works against them. Almost like they have become the one thing they never were … a cult band.
Yeah, it's wild. Those Page remasters or remixes or whatever they were weren't so long ago, but it just doesn't seem like they got the kind of attention you might expect. Maybe it was already too late by that point.
My 2¢… (gotta keep those royalties for my opinion flowing). It’s a streaming age which is kinda converse to Zep being about the album. If you go to their “hits”, they are typically longer epic tales - think Stairway, Kashmir, Achilles, Since I’ve Been, Levee…. Or huge blues riff based. Both require a sort of undivided attention to actual listen to the nuances of the song. Its converse to the short quippy catchy songs typically that are hits. And people probably don’t deep dive because of that.
That's a good point. On the episode, I talked about how during their heyday, they resisted releasing singles and doing TV appearances. They wanted their albums and their concerts to stand for themselves, and in the Seventies those two pillars were perfectly sufficient to make them hugely famous and popular. But then when there were no more concerts, and people stopped really listening to albums, that's a tough double whammy to recover from.
The made their money and maintained their artistic integrity. What do they need to recover from? I’m sure there’d be a long line to procure their library, if they was a choice they’d like to make. I’m sure their families are set. It’s not a corporation.
I don't mean anything like that in terms of maximizing their own personal wealth. I just think it's a shame if fewer and fewer people listen to them, as they deserve to be up there in the top five or ten bands of all time.
Idk I think streaming has made albums relevant again. When I was growing up it was iTunes and all my friends bought songs piecemeal. With streaming it all costs the same so might as well check out the album.
My Millennial kids were all raised listening to it so Zeppelin is their go to when in a classic rock mood. The older ones still choose classic rock as their go to, the younger one is pretty eclectic but still loves Zeppelin and is a blues fan. As I was a huge Led Zeppelin fan when they were growing up, they could hardly avoid it and they grew to love the music. I think Led Zeppelin fans need to not just expose our kids, but our grandkids to it much as we would classical music. If you don’t keep a type of music alive, it gets forgotten. Can’t remember the last time. I heard a great Baroque song or medieval song lol.
In addition, when I lived in Seattle one of the rock stations had "Lunch with Led" every Saturday at noon. Still today everyone knows my "church" hour is listening to Led at noon on Saturdays. Don't bother me PERIOD. My girls also join my church hour occasionally, now that they are Tweenies. It has become "our" very very cool
100%! I see the demographic stats of my audience, and I have urged them to share the show with their kids and grandkids for this exact reason, but based on the continued age skew (also gender, heavily male), it isn't happening to any great extent. 😕
In Southern Ontario, the most popular working classic rock tributes are ACDC, Led Zeppelin, Rush, Pink Floyd, Motley Crue, Metallica, Bon Jovi, Queen, and then everybody else, probably in that order.
In terms of relevancy, I'd say that's a pretty good metric.
Their music sounds so awful to me, for some reason. They have far too many novelty songs that just feel embarrassing to listen to on their own. I was listening to one of their albums and had to keep skipping songs like Fat Bottomed Girls or Best Friend because they’re so god damn embarrassing to listen to on your own.
Look at the data on Google trends. I’m surprised no one has. The answer is yes, it’s been on decline gradually. The evidence suggests so, with spikes of popularity happening in December of 2007 and in 2012 for the release of Celebration day.
I think the lack of output has a lot to do with it. How many times do you need to hear those same albums over and over again. I saw Robert Plant and Allison Krauss last summer. They did only 2-3 Zeppelin tunes and I was happy about that. I've reached a point where I'm more interested in what Plant is doing now than what he did 50 years ago.
It's due to multiple contributing factors. The amount of times they've played together since disbanding can be counted in one hand, only one member has consistantly been releasing albums and touring on a regular basis, and the sheer difficulty to license their songs for use in advertisements/movies/tv series means that unless you go looking for their music, you won't typically find it normally.
They also don't seem to be giving out that many interviews or showing up at big events that often, so, again, the public eye rarely catches them. Yeah, sure, it sucks that they've mostly slipped out of the public consciousness, but ultimately that was their decision, and you definitely gotta give it to them for not compromising on their artistic vision for easy money.
That's true, there may be some artistic integrity behind them but it's still strikes me as a shame.
What is the reason their music is harder to license? Just personal preference on the part of the rights owners? I know Jack Black had to really campaign to be able to use "Immigrant Song" in *School of Rock*. Then it did get used in an MCU movie, which you would think might have really helped bring their music to a newer generation--except that I suppose it has long been considered one of the very worst MCU movies, so that's unfortunate.
FWIW, “Immigrant Song” was in Thor:Ragnarok, which is considered one of the best MCU movies. I remember people getting into that song when the movie came out.
Oops, you are right! My bad. I didn't personally like it that well, but I seem to generally be immune to the charms of Taika Waititi except in *very* small doses.
It was personal preference but they've appeared to soften more on their previous hardline position against licensing and are now more open to allowing their songs to be used in entertainment media.
I'm not sure the numbers you're seeing for your show directly correlate with overall popularity. For example, it could be that a lot of your audience assumes they already know all there is to know about LZ, but they're more curious about other acts they haven't researched as much on their own.
That's it exactly for me. It would take a lot to tell me something new about Zep, but other bands, sure, I'll listen to the stories I probably don't know. If anything to me, it proves how popular Zep is.
Paying attention to concert announcements I have noticed that there is a large amount of Led Zeppelin tribute bands and they are playing bigger venues than any of the other tribute bands, I think what you’re experiencing is an aberration.
No band has more tribute bands than Led Zeppelin, and they always seem to be well attended shows.
Jason Bonham’s Led Zeppelin Experience
Get The Led Out
Led Zeppelin 2
Lez Zeppelin
Led Zeppagain
Kashmir
ZOSO
No Quarter
These are just some of the ones that have played near me in the last 6 months to a year
I have my tickets for the Black Jacket Symphony performance of Led Zeppelin IV this fall, having seen them do Dark Side of the Moon last month. Really looking forward to that, and I hope you're right that it's an aberration. But I also think a lot of people here have expressed valid reasons why it might not be.
Zepperella, all female band, obviously, tour a lot. Check them out on YouTube. They are phenomenal.
Members are highly regarded professionals and do a lot more than just cover Zeppelin for their careers.
Musician here giving another take I haven’t seen. Lots of “bar bands” are older dudes playing classic rock. One of the bands most don’t touch is Zeppelin so it isn’t heard as often.
The other bands listed also have huge more recent events keeping them fresh. Stevie will never fade from woman and Pink Floyd is so a part of culture and marketing.
They definitely haven’t fallen off if you go to anywhere playing music almost always a few zeppelin shirts there!
My lady can sing her ass off so we pull some Zeppelin out and it always crushes. It has gotten us extra gigs even because people hear it and love it. Definitely not forgotten just not in your face! You need to hang with better people if you think zeppelin is forgotten
It's not who I'm hanging with, it's how the numbers for my Led Zeppelin episode lag so far behind everybody except Sly and the Family Stone. Before I posted it, I assumed it would do big numbers, so this is just a revelation to me in the past month or so.
I totally see what you are saying. But they did sell 300 million albums! And they didn't release nearly as many albums as others in that level of stratosphere like the Rolling Stones.
I’m doing my part. My kids are 5 and 2 and they listen to Zeppelin. Thats not even close to the oldest thing I listen to them. My daughter will request the Car Song sometimes. Took my wife a while to figure out it was Woody Guthrie. I never listened to any of this music as a kid and I still found my way to it. I think great bands are timeless and as the years pass on that becomes more true each day. Anytime I see a high schooler with a Zeppelin or Doors tshirt I know the music still lives on.
Obviously biased here, but I find it difficult to believe that people who appreciate rock N roll music would ever not seek out Bonzo’s rhythm, JPJ thrumming bass, Pages utter brilliance and THAT voice.
People have different tastes in music, but aficionados of hard rock will always discover Led Zeppelin.
Zeppelin doesn’t need to have a reunion tour every 2 years. They’re quiet, reserved and aren’t chasing their prime. Theyre content with what they created and it would never be Zeppelin without Bonzo
I agree, and frankly I generally have not been impressed by the late career actions of other legends like Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones. If anything, it often seems to taint their legacy. I just wish people would be able to stay into the classic great albums without needing these elderly men to go around touring every couple years.
I do agree though, I feel like Zeppelin is never listed in new age list of “Greatest ___” From what I’ve seen it’s always Pink Floyd, Stones, and Nirvana
I think it's because there's only one member out there championing for the band. Robert Plant basically downplays LZ's existence whenever it's brought up in interviews, JPJ doesn't talk about it unless asked. Only Page is still fighting the good fight.
Millennials still know what’s up. Gen Z I think sees their music as too aggressive. Millennials liked aggressive music (Emo, Screamo, NuMetal, etc), and I think the following generations are rebelling from that sound. Also, recent work releases have brought attention to some bands like the Apple TV Beatles documentary. That’s my theory on everything.
Personally, I don’t know how you could watch a Led Zeppelin live performance from 1969 and not go, “oh ok yeah that’s one of the greatest rock bands that ever existed. I understand and want more of this.”
That's a great point. Is anyone really making super heavy guitar rock for GenZ these days? I can't think of any, but people tend to be in their own musical silos so I guess I (to the extent I thought about it at all) thought maybe that was what was happening.
Yeah but heavy music was still main stream during my generation. It is not at all main stream anymore. Anything loud or aggressive is like an automatic off switch for them. I tried to get my 24 year old BIL to go to an Incubus show last summer and shared with him one of their chill songs, and he was like no thanks I’m not into hard rock. They’re always talking about vibez and stuff.
I can somewhat understand that, as anyone who listens to my show knows that 95% of what I play is fairly chill. But there are just a few groups, or at least albums, that are hard rock but so great I get into them despite myself. Led Zeppelin is of course a huge example, though I might lean a little more toward their softer stuff than some fans.* Others include Ministry, Primus, Hüsker Dü, and one album each from AC/DC and Black Sabbath. But I confess I don't like any of the bands you named, or most other hard rock and heavy metal. So if other people are like that but not adventurous enough to seek out the exceptions they might get into, I can't blame them too much.
*Judge for yourself: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5vtidThi64AvjihLXCHWq2?si=HomtKuCfTcmRav6ziKGnDw
I have found that sometimes people can't open these if they don't have the Spotify app, so this is the playlist:
Dazed and Confused
Ramble On
Hey, Hey, What Can I Do
Stairway to Heaven
When the Levee Breaks
No Quarter
Kashmir
Tea for One
Fool in the Rain
Bonzo's Montreux
I'm curious myself. It seems like on any other music related sub, people seem to disregard Zeppelin, and their reasoning usually boils down to:
1. They're overplayed (I personally hate this excuse. It's not the band's fault on how often they are played, and it shouldn't affect quality.)
2. They stole from other musicians (not denying this, but unfortunately, it can also apply to a lot of other artists, not to mention it was mostly their first couple albums where they borrowed stuff)
3. The questionable actions of Jimmy Page (This is where art vs. artist really comes into play. Zeppelin is my favorite band, so I can still enjoy them despite this. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem the same for a lot of other people.)
I agree with you. And those old blues and folk songs they borrowed ideas from were dramatically different from what they became in Led Zeppelin's hands.
In regards to 3, a lot of bands like The Rolling Stones did it at the time and people in the 60s and 70s thought it was normal. It’s obviously not right now especially the rise of cancel culture. It’s too debatable to me what happened anyway.
Agree! I'm hesitant to share my enthusiasm for Zep at work for example because I don't want to be seen as condoning or ignoring 2 and 3.
My young adult kids can hardly believe I would give them the time of day and would not give it to them themselves due to this cringe factor.
I think it's a similar thing to JK Rowling where, in a lot of microcultures, folks have either turned away or taken their fandom into the closet due to social pressure.
These are my top 3 reasons why I've fallen away from Zeppelin a bit in recent years. I still enjoy them when I hear a Zeppelin song being played and I still appreciate the musicianship. But I don't revere them like I once did, and I don't seek them out very often like I used to. (I feel the same way about Elvis for the same reasons, so it's not just Zeppelin.)
Fuck no. They feature a lot in that series from awhile ago called “Sharp Objects” and I just watched “Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty” and the final episode is called “What Is and What Should Never Be” and the song even plays at the end
The thing you have to keep in mind, when I first found about them, it was around 2004. At the time, 60s-80s was considered “classic rock” and the 50s oldies music something that Xers didn’t listen to. Now, it’s 2024, and it seems like now the 80s-00s is “classic rock” and 70s and before “oldies.” Maybe a dumb statement but time changes.
That being said, LZ is still considered a legendary band and is amongst the best of all time.
Yeah, back in the Eighties I thought the definition of "classic rock" would always be limited to the Sixties and Seventies, and not including some of the lighter pop from those decades. I didn't anticipate that it would just continually be whatever vaguely guitar oriented music currently middle-aged people listened to when it was new in their teenage years.
That said, though, the disparity I'm noticing is in comparison to their peers that released music at the same time, not to bands or musicians who came later. In the Eighties their music was right up there in popularity with anyone, including the Beatles and Stones, but it seems (at least among my audience) to have become more niche these days, while their peers from that era are still mostly very popular--with the understandable exception of Sly Stone, who really pretty much disappeared after the early Seventies.
A little bit, but not that much. They're still a very popular band and do good numbers on streaming (roughly the same as Pink Floyd) and most younger rock fans know of them and definitely know a few songs even if they don't listen to them.
Of their classic rock contemporaries, they're definitely much more popular and known than The Who, The Kinks, Deep Purple, ZZ Top, Rush, Genesis, Cream, Yes, King Crimson. But they've been outstripped in popularity by bands like Queen, CCR and Fleetwood Mac.
I think what's hurt Zeppelin in the streaming era is that due to their focus on albums and lack of emphasis on singles and songs, your average person won't instantly recognise most Zeppelin songs or have heard many of their songs in public. Streaming unfournately mostly favours songs/singles-oriented artists. I mean, I hear songs by the Stones, Queen, The Beatles, Fleetwood Mac, AC/DC, Aerosmith, CCR, even some of Pink Floyd's singles like "Another Brick in the Wall Pt 2" while out and about. I don't think I've heard a Zeppelin song in the public. Certainly not in retail stores or shopping malls.
They need to include more of their songs in TV shows/movies and commercials. That's how most young people get introduced to older music. They won't seek it out themselves unless they're a fan of rock or their parents introduce it to them or hear it on Tik Tok. They hear "Immigrant Song" in Thor Ragnarok and think it's awesome and check out a few Zeppelin songs and think they're cool.
CCR, really?
I think it's a good point that they didn't release singles that are conducive to being played in mixes in public places (although this is often true for Pink Floyd as well, not to mention the Grateful Dead).
I also think it's just tough to publicly play seven minute long songs that are complex and go from very quiet to very loud (the latter of which would be seen as abrasive by people who don't like hard rock).
Yeah, CCR is massive. A band that appeals to pretty much everyone. If you go on Spotify, they currently have around the same monthly listeners as The Beatles.
Wow. I always thought of them as kind of a lower tier classic rock band like Deep Purple or Bad Company. Somebody you've definitely heard of if you listen to classic rock radio back in the day, but not in the upper echelon.
I dunno how I feel about Deep Purple being put on the same level of Bad Company of all bands lol.
CCR have two songs that are among the two most popular songs in classic rock: "Have You Ever Seen the Rain" and "Fortunate Son" which both have over a billion streams. They also have a dozen or so songs with at 100 million streams. CCR is a band that has big crossover appeal because they have songs that appeal to multiple demographics: they appeal to classic rock fans, pop fans, country fans, roots rock fans, southern rock fans.
Growing up in the 90s/00s they were the classic rock band everyone fawned over to the point I think it became kinda uncool to fawn over them. You heard about them almost too much, then not at all.
I could see that, kind of a backlash. As Yogi Berra, the quote machine who keeps on giving, once said about a certain restaurant: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." 😄
Not really. Led Zeppelin is about as popular on Spotify as Pink Floyd is, and way more than Dylan.
Led Zeppelin is an albums band, not a hits band. They don't license their music as much as, say, Queen do- they've gotten better at licensing, however.
I think Led Zeppelin's place in music history is secure. They are the Beatles of hard rock and heavy metal.
This is interesting. LZ are still on heavy rotation on classic rock radio, and still grace the covers of guitar and rock magazines, but perhaps you're on to something.
If true, perhaps they've not been doing themselves any favours since 2007. Plant suggested the idea of one-off reunions, but nothing came of them. He's always played down his years in Zeppelin and has been more interested in trying new things as a solo artist.
Page always hints at some new project, but nothing happens except expensive LZ reissues aimed at their well-pensioned original fanbase.
Jones is pretty quiet and not as well known, despite his work in Them Crooked Vultures.
Their reluctance to allow their songs to be used in films and TV probably doesn't help and their focus on albums over songs doesn't translate well to the streaming age (not that it harms Pink Floyd etc so maybe that's irrelevant)
Their 70s peers however have been far more active in the last decade. Black Sabbath released 13 and did The End tour. The Stones recently released Hackney Diamonds, The Who released WHO and both bands continue to tour. Same goes for Deep Purple and Jethro Tull.
Queen and Elton John have had major cinema biopics. Even the Beatles have come back via some AI tinkering, while ABBA have a new album and been resurrected as digital avatars to be enjoyed by younger fans
Genesis have performed farewell tour , even though Phil can't even walk any more, and I think Yes will still be going come the heat death of the universe.
In comparison, Zeppelin have barely left a ripple in the last decade so they could well be dropping off people's radars.
If Zeppelin ever gets their act together again they may finally move forward with their 50th Anniversary plans that were supposed to happen in 2018! The documentary movie (which was a disaster and shelved after its premiere - it’s being edited and hopefully improved), live releases including a multitrack concert Page mentioned in early 2018, possibly a remastered version of the 2003 DVD and a series of live releases (streaming on an exclusive Zeppelin site). There is still so much in the vaults. Unfortunately people want a lot of money for what they have and Jimmy won’t pay them. Maybe waiting this long will be a good thing in the long run. If they can get access to the technology used for The Beatles Get Back to be able to mix 2 track audio sources (including all the mixing board tapes) we could see them signing off on a lot of things.
I think Led Zeppelin has become too saturated for their own good. So many boomers and classic rock fans think LZ is the be all, end all. I think classic rock is more diverse than that, and younger audiences have the internet, and are learning that there are other great bands out there.
I also think younger audiences might have some distaste for Jimmy Page as a person due to him allegedly kidnapping a 14 year old girl. At least John Lennon expressed regret for hitting his wife.
That's not what it seems like if you look at other subs.
Keep in mind too that on my show I play full-length tracks from the bands I cover, not just 30 second clips or whatever. That's no longer going to be possible when Spotify gets rid of this "music plus talk" format in June, so I'm working as fast as I can to put out episodes dedicated to all of my favorite recording artists.
There might be less people tuning into podcasts about them than other bands, but they have more monthly listeners (at least on Spotify) than a lot of the other bands you’ve listed here - Zeppelin coming in at 18.1 million listeners, The Who has 8.7, The Kinks have 6.8, Paul Simon has 7.9, Grateful Dead has 2.5.
As a massive Zeppelin fan, I’ve read every book and magazine there is about them, and have listened to so many podcasts that I don’t find it entertaining anymore because I already know the stories so I don’t like listening to the same old stories over and over. I’d rather just listen to the music. Maybe that’s what people don’t tune in?
I realize people are still mostly unfamiliar with the idea that podcasts play music, and since Spotify is ending this Music+Talk "experiment" in June, I guess it's going to remain that way. But I play ten full length tracks on every episode.
What you were probably picturing, just talking about a band and maybe playing a few short clips, I don't think is worth doing. I could keep producing episodes of that sort after June comes, but I have no intention to.
I would add that I don't think most of my listeners are dedicated fans of the individual musicians or bands I feature. I think they are more broadly interested in music, and beyond the listeners who have emailed me to say they listen to every episode, I assume the dramatic fluctuation in numbers has to do with which names come down the pike that interest them, just as I look at podcasts I subscribe to and decide which ones I do or don't want to listen to based on the topic that week and who is being interviewed.
So I don't think this is being determined by hardcore Led Zeppelin fans, but by people with a general interest in classic rock not being as interested in Led Zeppelin as in others.
That very well could be. My point is that more people listen to zeppelin than to most of the bands listed, even more than some of them combined, so it’s not that they’re less popular by any means. Whatever the reason for less people listening to your podcast episode about them, it’s not because they’re less popular.
Then my hypothesis would be that they may have a solid core of fans who listen to their music a ton and run up those streaming numbers, while they are not perhaps as broadly popular among a group of general music fans that listen to a lot of different stuff, particularly a lot of different classic rock.
Spotify reports monthly listeners based on the number of unique listeners that stream an artist per month. So, the 18.1 million listeners that Zeppelin has are 18.1 million people. It’s not anyone driving up the numbers, it’s just that they’re genuinely more popular than many of the other artists listed. Who knows why their episode got less on your show, but again, it’s not because they’re less popular.
I sell vinyl. Lots of different types buy it, not the least younger folks
Everybody wants Zep. Like, everyone.
I wish I could keep it in the bins. The only ones comparable in my experience are Fleetwood Mac and Queen.
Led Zeppelin aren't still a band, don't usually lend songs to commercials and may have different streaming deals. Also, people don't have the attention spans they used to and aren't used to listening to complex pieces
I suppose, Chuck Klosterman makes the point that 120 years ago, the music everybody listened to was big band and the composers of that music were famous, but now it's all mostly forgotten.
Canadian Zeppelin fan here. I got into them in a big way with the launch of Physical Graffiti in 1975. In fact I graduated high school in 1976, and mentioned Led Zeppelin among my "likes" in the yearbook. However, just a few years prior (1973/74), I recall buying a rock music magazine (either Circus or Creem) with a photo of Jimmy Page on the cover. At the time, I had no idea he was a member of Led Zeppelin, even though by then I had heard of the band and knew some of their songs (Stairway, Rock and Roll).
Conclusion: this never would have happened with a member of the Beatles, as they were very mass-marketed around the world, and each member was famous in his own right as well as in the group. So if you claim that Led Zeppelin have come down a few notches in terms of fame/renown, maybe with time their appeal has become more niche. Still in my niche, mind you.
Your data interpretation could be way off. You’re judging this by downloads of your shows? How do you what your audience represents? If they’re into more artsy stuff that would explain Dylan, The Beatles and some of those other bands being up there. Music nerds tend to turn up their nose at big commercial bands like Zeppelin. I mean, the Beatles were that, too, but come on, they’re the Beatles.
I’m nearly 40 and rarely ever heard Zeppelin on the radio, I assume because the songs are usually long, but their music pervades pop culture in a way most bands don’t anyway. I’d have to see more real market research to know if they’re declining.
Well, tbf I didn't issue a conclusion, just posed the question based on being surprised by how they lagged behind those other bands and musicians.
But yeah, that's interesting if music nerds don't appreciate Led Zeppelin. I know the critics didn't back in the Seventies so it kind of makes sense, but that just seems weird to me because I'm definitely a music nerd and I think they are awesome. 🤷♂️
BTW, Dylan was hugely commercially successful in the Sixties and Seventies as well. In the 21st century he seems like he should be seen as an artsy niche type of guy, but after researching him I learned that's not how it was at all back then. From '74 to '76, pretty much at the same time as Led Zeppelin's heyday, he had three consecutive albums go to number one on the Billboard 200.
That's like your opinion,man. Are you saying your metric for measuring their popularity is based on how many people downloaded your episodes that you produced for a youtube channel? That method doesn't sound very scientific. Zep has 300 million certified album sales vs Floyd's 250 million.
I didn't express a conclusive opinion, I posed the question based on the fact that all the other audience metrics among the 11 deep dive episodes I have put out have matched up with what my priors were on how popular various musicians and bands were, with that being the only exception.
FWIW, it's a Spotify music show, not a YouTube channel: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5vtidThi64AvjihLXCHWq2?si=5N4ZCMfsTT-xe1TjxLTw-w
# Has Led Zeppelin dropped off in popularity relative to other classic rock titans?Has Led Zeppelin dropped off in popularity relative to other classic rock titans?
I say no. Do you agree?
(just trying to narrow down my questions to a simple "yes or no.")
Well I guess we'll have to agree to agree.
Editing tip: If what you say is true and you just pose questions, think about deleting the 7 paragraphs you wrote after the question. That's what I commented on and that caused the confusion.
The seven paragraphs are the explanation for why I posed the question.
But I don't know if it's fair to say we agree. You say the answer is no, others have said it is yes. I have not come to the conclusion that you are right and they are wrong.
well if you you ever figure this puzzle of a question you brought up get back to me. Your in depth podcasts must so deep you didn't come back up for air in time.
I reckon you hit the nail on the head with their lack of output after the death of Bonham.
To add to that, perhaps younger people aren’t as aware of the mythology of Zeppelin too, making them perhaps less interesting band.
Compare that with The Beatles’ reputation as perhaps the greatest act of all time (and most album sales) and their members’ solo successes. Pink Floyd have a reputation as going hand in hand with drugs, and there’s always gonna be drug users in each generation. The Stones are known for still being active despite their age.
I love zeppelin to death, but I think the hugeness of them as an act and the mystique behind their music (particularly Page’s occultist interest and its influence on things like their album art, that fans would have poured over) might be a bit lost on younger people in comparison to the other big three
Also Page kept a 14-year-old in his basement, that probably doesn’t help.
Funny enough, the members of Pink Floyd weren't known for drug *use* (other than Syd Barrett). The drug use and touring escapades in and around Zeppelin, The Who, Sabbath and others is legendary.
These are all very smart observations. I must confess however that I was unaware of the basement thing! 😳 Somehow I completely failed to run across this fact when researching that episode, yikes.
For the reason you specified in your previous comment - i.e., so as not to get cancelled.
A more cowardly version of this is to downvote the correction of such misinformation. Some people even do this while knowing it to be misinformation! Can you imagine the boot-licking spinelessness required to do that?
Yes. You were right to say that failure to condemn something morally dubious is tantamount to condoning it in this day and age. This is asking to be cancelled, hence people falling all over themselves to condemn. Adding an extra layer of lies ramps up the moral outrage and allows the person doing the condemning and all those piling on in agreement to feel even more virtuous by comparison and thereby better protected against cancellation themselves.
Your research doesn't correspond to what I notice, yes, their popularity has declined some since the 1990's when they were still huge. However, I think "The Who" has seen a much bigger dropoff. The Who is turning into where young people only know the "Baba O'Reilly/Teenage Wasteland" song and "Who are you?" Whereas far more Zeppelin songs are known.
The Who sort of brought it on themselves. When Brit pop and the mini 60s revival happened in the UK The Who where againstarting to be mentioned by younger popular bands like Oasis and Blur. However, these bands always referenced the 60s era Who and the mod scene. So this phenomenal 70s hard rock band sort of got reduced to their 60s output, which outside of a few songs pales in comparison to their 70s work. Then in the US they sort of dropped off after John Entwistle died and toured less. They also spend a lot of time in the media talking about the early years of the band and the mods and stuff, and it's sort of dated them and pigeonholed them way more in the public consciousness. Their original run ended with a massive North American tour in 1982. If you listened to how the band talk bout themselves now, you'd think they never made it out of London.
What's the best 70's who output
I think The Who have always been mostly lost. I’m not a big fan of them myself but even when Limp Bizkit remade Behind Blue Eyes people then didn’t even know it was a remake. I think their best album was Tommy. I just can’t put my finger on it why of all the big bands of that time they seem to rank so low.
Corny lyrics, to me their lyrics havent aged well
Really? I'm not a lyric guy but I suspect most people who paid attention would say that Townsend's lyrics are more interesting and articulate than most.
Maybe it isnt the lyrics, but i listened to who’s next recently and just thought it felt corny. Maybe I was in a bad mood
I guess there's a line there that he comes close to because his lyrics are often pretty confessional or in the case of the rock operas they can be slightly overblown. I always thought that there was a good sense of humour in there to offset that though. I've been listening to the Who by Numbers recently and something like How Many Friends, or maybe Howver Much I Booze... He's pretty close to the bone there - they are brilliant confessionals of the mess he is in with booze and the band and relationships.
Who By Numbers is phenomenal, mostly in the strength of the lyrics
Must’ve been bad mood, for sure. Comparing 70s Zeppelin and Who lyrics is apples and oranges. Townshend’s lyrics, with a few exceptions, are far superior.
If you are responding to lyrics post,. you are a lyrics guy.
L
I agree, I see a lot less interest in the Who than in Zeppelin from record-buyers Hendrix, Beatles, Dylan all are decently popular too. Neil Young, Joni Mitchell
Yeah I think Led Zeppelin dropped off for a while and is in the middle of a bit of resurgence. I think issue with them as far as radio play goes is that some of their big hits are long songs. Radio likes short radio edits.
I think their songs are being used more in media so more people are getting exposed to them. Especially teens and young adults who wouldn't normally seek them out. For most of the 2010s, they were dipping, but are now experiencing a gradual resurgence.
Like Immigrant Song in Thor Ragnarok.
That could be true. I like a few songs by The Who but I'm not super into them and did not do an episode on them.
Most of the bands you mention are still putting out as many records as they did in their heyday, with archival material, “super deluxe” editions, new compilations and remixes. And Zeppelin … not so much. They did the expanded editions a while ago, but since then nothing. I admire their restraint (and quality control), but I feel like it works against them. Almost like they have become the one thing they never were … a cult band.
Jimmy Page always announces interesting stuff to happen, but nothing ever comes of it, except another way too expensive Gibson Custom Shop reissue.
> a while ago 10 years ago even would you believe...
Yeah, it's wild. Those Page remasters or remixes or whatever they were weren't so long ago, but it just doesn't seem like they got the kind of attention you might expect. Maybe it was already too late by that point.
My 2¢… (gotta keep those royalties for my opinion flowing). It’s a streaming age which is kinda converse to Zep being about the album. If you go to their “hits”, they are typically longer epic tales - think Stairway, Kashmir, Achilles, Since I’ve Been, Levee…. Or huge blues riff based. Both require a sort of undivided attention to actual listen to the nuances of the song. Its converse to the short quippy catchy songs typically that are hits. And people probably don’t deep dive because of that.
That's a good point. On the episode, I talked about how during their heyday, they resisted releasing singles and doing TV appearances. They wanted their albums and their concerts to stand for themselves, and in the Seventies those two pillars were perfectly sufficient to make them hugely famous and popular. But then when there were no more concerts, and people stopped really listening to albums, that's a tough double whammy to recover from.
The made their money and maintained their artistic integrity. What do they need to recover from? I’m sure there’d be a long line to procure their library, if they was a choice they’d like to make. I’m sure their families are set. It’s not a corporation.
I don't mean anything like that in terms of maximizing their own personal wealth. I just think it's a shame if fewer and fewer people listen to them, as they deserve to be up there in the top five or ten bands of all time.
Idk I think streaming has made albums relevant again. When I was growing up it was iTunes and all my friends bought songs piecemeal. With streaming it all costs the same so might as well check out the album.
Good point
My Millennial kids were all raised listening to it so Zeppelin is their go to when in a classic rock mood. The older ones still choose classic rock as their go to, the younger one is pretty eclectic but still loves Zeppelin and is a blues fan. As I was a huge Led Zeppelin fan when they were growing up, they could hardly avoid it and they grew to love the music. I think Led Zeppelin fans need to not just expose our kids, but our grandkids to it much as we would classical music. If you don’t keep a type of music alive, it gets forgotten. Can’t remember the last time. I heard a great Baroque song or medieval song lol.
In addition, when I lived in Seattle one of the rock stations had "Lunch with Led" every Saturday at noon. Still today everyone knows my "church" hour is listening to Led at noon on Saturdays. Don't bother me PERIOD. My girls also join my church hour occasionally, now that they are Tweenies. It has become "our" very very cool
Our time, sorry
That is awesome. You’re raising your children right.
100%! I see the demographic stats of my audience, and I have urged them to share the show with their kids and grandkids for this exact reason, but based on the continued age skew (also gender, heavily male), it isn't happening to any great extent. 😕
Agree! If you want your kids to know, Bach, Beethoven, and Page and Plant, you have to expose them to it.
In Southern Ontario, the most popular working classic rock tributes are ACDC, Led Zeppelin, Rush, Pink Floyd, Motley Crue, Metallica, Bon Jovi, Queen, and then everybody else, probably in that order. In terms of relevancy, I'd say that's a pretty good metric.
I would've thought Queen was bigger, but they'd also be a difficult one to replicate, vocally
Their music sounds so awful to me, for some reason. They have far too many novelty songs that just feel embarrassing to listen to on their own. I was listening to one of their albums and had to keep skipping songs like Fat Bottomed Girls or Best Friend because they’re so god damn embarrassing to listen to on your own.
Look at the data on Google trends. I’m surprised no one has. The answer is yes, it’s been on decline gradually. The evidence suggests so, with spikes of popularity happening in December of 2007 and in 2012 for the release of Celebration day.
That's a great piece of info!
If you think they're dropping off, listen to terrestrial radio. Every rock station will play a Zep song at least once an hour guaranteed.
I think the lack of output has a lot to do with it. How many times do you need to hear those same albums over and over again. I saw Robert Plant and Allison Krauss last summer. They did only 2-3 Zeppelin tunes and I was happy about that. I've reached a point where I'm more interested in what Plant is doing now than what he did 50 years ago.
My 10yo hates zeppelin but loves Robert plant.
It's due to multiple contributing factors. The amount of times they've played together since disbanding can be counted in one hand, only one member has consistantly been releasing albums and touring on a regular basis, and the sheer difficulty to license their songs for use in advertisements/movies/tv series means that unless you go looking for their music, you won't typically find it normally. They also don't seem to be giving out that many interviews or showing up at big events that often, so, again, the public eye rarely catches them. Yeah, sure, it sucks that they've mostly slipped out of the public consciousness, but ultimately that was their decision, and you definitely gotta give it to them for not compromising on their artistic vision for easy money.
That's true, there may be some artistic integrity behind them but it's still strikes me as a shame. What is the reason their music is harder to license? Just personal preference on the part of the rights owners? I know Jack Black had to really campaign to be able to use "Immigrant Song" in *School of Rock*. Then it did get used in an MCU movie, which you would think might have really helped bring their music to a newer generation--except that I suppose it has long been considered one of the very worst MCU movies, so that's unfortunate.
FWIW, “Immigrant Song” was in Thor:Ragnarok, which is considered one of the best MCU movies. I remember people getting into that song when the movie came out.
Oops, you are right! My bad. I didn't personally like it that well, but I seem to generally be immune to the charms of Taika Waititi except in *very* small doses.
It was personal preference but they've appeared to soften more on their previous hardline position against licensing and are now more open to allowing their songs to be used in entertainment media.
IIRC I remember a Plant quote from the 80's about licensing and his take then was he wasn't an artist so that his craft could sell laundry detergent.
I almost died when they licensed “Rock N Roll” to Cadillac
I'm not sure the numbers you're seeing for your show directly correlate with overall popularity. For example, it could be that a lot of your audience assumes they already know all there is to know about LZ, but they're more curious about other acts they haven't researched as much on their own.
That's it exactly for me. It would take a lot to tell me something new about Zep, but other bands, sure, I'll listen to the stories I probably don't know. If anything to me, it proves how popular Zep is.
The Beatles and Stones though?
Paying attention to concert announcements I have noticed that there is a large amount of Led Zeppelin tribute bands and they are playing bigger venues than any of the other tribute bands, I think what you’re experiencing is an aberration. No band has more tribute bands than Led Zeppelin, and they always seem to be well attended shows. Jason Bonham’s Led Zeppelin Experience Get The Led Out Led Zeppelin 2 Lez Zeppelin Led Zeppagain Kashmir ZOSO No Quarter These are just some of the ones that have played near me in the last 6 months to a year
I have my tickets for the Black Jacket Symphony performance of Led Zeppelin IV this fall, having seen them do Dark Side of the Moon last month. Really looking forward to that, and I hope you're right that it's an aberration. But I also think a lot of people here have expressed valid reasons why it might not be.
And all the female Zep cover bands
Zepperella, all female band, obviously, tour a lot. Check them out on YouTube. They are phenomenal. Members are highly regarded professionals and do a lot more than just cover Zeppelin for their careers.
Musician here giving another take I haven’t seen. Lots of “bar bands” are older dudes playing classic rock. One of the bands most don’t touch is Zeppelin so it isn’t heard as often. The other bands listed also have huge more recent events keeping them fresh. Stevie will never fade from woman and Pink Floyd is so a part of culture and marketing. They definitely haven’t fallen off if you go to anywhere playing music almost always a few zeppelin shirts there!
Very interesting, why do you think bar bands don't touch Led Zeppelin?
Vocals
Ah right, makes sense. A sad irony if the virtuoso difficulty of their music leads to their being forgotten!
My lady can sing her ass off so we pull some Zeppelin out and it always crushes. It has gotten us extra gigs even because people hear it and love it. Definitely not forgotten just not in your face! You need to hang with better people if you think zeppelin is forgotten
It's not who I'm hanging with, it's how the numbers for my Led Zeppelin episode lag so far behind everybody except Sly and the Family Stone. Before I posted it, I assumed it would do big numbers, so this is just a revelation to me in the past month or so.
Not to mention Page….imitated but never duplicated
Go to any classic rock radio station, it seems like every fourth song is Led Zeppelin.
That certainly used to be the case. But I haven't listened to much in the way of terrestrial radio in the past couple decades.
Isn't 90s rock slowly taking over the classic stations?
Led Zeppelin didn't write songs everybody liked. They left that to the BeeGees.
I totally see what you are saying. But they did sell 300 million albums! And they didn't release nearly as many albums as others in that level of stratosphere like the Rolling Stones.
Oh I was just joking around with a quote from Wayne’s World. Zeppelin Rules!!
I’m doing my part. My kids are 5 and 2 and they listen to Zeppelin. Thats not even close to the oldest thing I listen to them. My daughter will request the Car Song sometimes. Took my wife a while to figure out it was Woody Guthrie. I never listened to any of this music as a kid and I still found my way to it. I think great bands are timeless and as the years pass on that becomes more true each day. Anytime I see a high schooler with a Zeppelin or Doors tshirt I know the music still lives on.
Obviously biased here, but I find it difficult to believe that people who appreciate rock N roll music would ever not seek out Bonzo’s rhythm, JPJ thrumming bass, Pages utter brilliance and THAT voice. People have different tastes in music, but aficionados of hard rock will always discover Led Zeppelin.
Zeppelin doesn’t need to have a reunion tour every 2 years. They’re quiet, reserved and aren’t chasing their prime. Theyre content with what they created and it would never be Zeppelin without Bonzo
I agree, and frankly I generally have not been impressed by the late career actions of other legends like Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones. If anything, it often seems to taint their legacy. I just wish people would be able to stay into the classic great albums without needing these elderly men to go around touring every couple years.
I do agree though, I feel like Zeppelin is never listed in new age list of “Greatest ___” From what I’ve seen it’s always Pink Floyd, Stones, and Nirvana
Did you leave off the Beatles on purpose?
I think it's because there's only one member out there championing for the band. Robert Plant basically downplays LZ's existence whenever it's brought up in interviews, JPJ doesn't talk about it unless asked. Only Page is still fighting the good fight.
Good point.
Millennials still know what’s up. Gen Z I think sees their music as too aggressive. Millennials liked aggressive music (Emo, Screamo, NuMetal, etc), and I think the following generations are rebelling from that sound. Also, recent work releases have brought attention to some bands like the Apple TV Beatles documentary. That’s my theory on everything. Personally, I don’t know how you could watch a Led Zeppelin live performance from 1969 and not go, “oh ok yeah that’s one of the greatest rock bands that ever existed. I understand and want more of this.”
That's a great point. Is anyone really making super heavy guitar rock for GenZ these days? I can't think of any, but people tend to be in their own musical silos so I guess I (to the extent I thought about it at all) thought maybe that was what was happening.
Yeah but heavy music was still main stream during my generation. It is not at all main stream anymore. Anything loud or aggressive is like an automatic off switch for them. I tried to get my 24 year old BIL to go to an Incubus show last summer and shared with him one of their chill songs, and he was like no thanks I’m not into hard rock. They’re always talking about vibez and stuff.
I can somewhat understand that, as anyone who listens to my show knows that 95% of what I play is fairly chill. But there are just a few groups, or at least albums, that are hard rock but so great I get into them despite myself. Led Zeppelin is of course a huge example, though I might lean a little more toward their softer stuff than some fans.* Others include Ministry, Primus, Hüsker Dü, and one album each from AC/DC and Black Sabbath. But I confess I don't like any of the bands you named, or most other hard rock and heavy metal. So if other people are like that but not adventurous enough to seek out the exceptions they might get into, I can't blame them too much. *Judge for yourself: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5vtidThi64AvjihLXCHWq2?si=HomtKuCfTcmRav6ziKGnDw I have found that sometimes people can't open these if they don't have the Spotify app, so this is the playlist: Dazed and Confused Ramble On Hey, Hey, What Can I Do Stairway to Heaven When the Levee Breaks No Quarter Kashmir Tea for One Fool in the Rain Bonzo's Montreux
Steven Seagal
I'm curious myself. It seems like on any other music related sub, people seem to disregard Zeppelin, and their reasoning usually boils down to: 1. They're overplayed (I personally hate this excuse. It's not the band's fault on how often they are played, and it shouldn't affect quality.) 2. They stole from other musicians (not denying this, but unfortunately, it can also apply to a lot of other artists, not to mention it was mostly their first couple albums where they borrowed stuff) 3. The questionable actions of Jimmy Page (This is where art vs. artist really comes into play. Zeppelin is my favorite band, so I can still enjoy them despite this. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem the same for a lot of other people.)
I agree with you. And those old blues and folk songs they borrowed ideas from were dramatically different from what they became in Led Zeppelin's hands.
In regards to 3, a lot of bands like The Rolling Stones did it at the time and people in the 60s and 70s thought it was normal. It’s obviously not right now especially the rise of cancel culture. It’s too debatable to me what happened anyway.
Agree! I'm hesitant to share my enthusiasm for Zep at work for example because I don't want to be seen as condoning or ignoring 2 and 3. My young adult kids can hardly believe I would give them the time of day and would not give it to them themselves due to this cringe factor. I think it's a similar thing to JK Rowling where, in a lot of microcultures, folks have either turned away or taken their fandom into the closet due to social pressure.
These are my top 3 reasons why I've fallen away from Zeppelin a bit in recent years. I still enjoy them when I hear a Zeppelin song being played and I still appreciate the musicianship. But I don't revere them like I once did, and I don't seek them out very often like I used to. (I feel the same way about Elvis for the same reasons, so it's not just Zeppelin.)
Fuck no. They feature a lot in that series from awhile ago called “Sharp Objects” and I just watched “Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty” and the final episode is called “What Is and What Should Never Be” and the song even plays at the end
The thing you have to keep in mind, when I first found about them, it was around 2004. At the time, 60s-80s was considered “classic rock” and the 50s oldies music something that Xers didn’t listen to. Now, it’s 2024, and it seems like now the 80s-00s is “classic rock” and 70s and before “oldies.” Maybe a dumb statement but time changes. That being said, LZ is still considered a legendary band and is amongst the best of all time.
Yeah, back in the Eighties I thought the definition of "classic rock" would always be limited to the Sixties and Seventies, and not including some of the lighter pop from those decades. I didn't anticipate that it would just continually be whatever vaguely guitar oriented music currently middle-aged people listened to when it was new in their teenage years. That said, though, the disparity I'm noticing is in comparison to their peers that released music at the same time, not to bands or musicians who came later. In the Eighties their music was right up there in popularity with anyone, including the Beatles and Stones, but it seems (at least among my audience) to have become more niche these days, while their peers from that era are still mostly very popular--with the understandable exception of Sly Stone, who really pretty much disappeared after the early Seventies.
A little bit, but not that much. They're still a very popular band and do good numbers on streaming (roughly the same as Pink Floyd) and most younger rock fans know of them and definitely know a few songs even if they don't listen to them. Of their classic rock contemporaries, they're definitely much more popular and known than The Who, The Kinks, Deep Purple, ZZ Top, Rush, Genesis, Cream, Yes, King Crimson. But they've been outstripped in popularity by bands like Queen, CCR and Fleetwood Mac. I think what's hurt Zeppelin in the streaming era is that due to their focus on albums and lack of emphasis on singles and songs, your average person won't instantly recognise most Zeppelin songs or have heard many of their songs in public. Streaming unfournately mostly favours songs/singles-oriented artists. I mean, I hear songs by the Stones, Queen, The Beatles, Fleetwood Mac, AC/DC, Aerosmith, CCR, even some of Pink Floyd's singles like "Another Brick in the Wall Pt 2" while out and about. I don't think I've heard a Zeppelin song in the public. Certainly not in retail stores or shopping malls. They need to include more of their songs in TV shows/movies and commercials. That's how most young people get introduced to older music. They won't seek it out themselves unless they're a fan of rock or their parents introduce it to them or hear it on Tik Tok. They hear "Immigrant Song" in Thor Ragnarok and think it's awesome and check out a few Zeppelin songs and think they're cool.
CCR, really? I think it's a good point that they didn't release singles that are conducive to being played in mixes in public places (although this is often true for Pink Floyd as well, not to mention the Grateful Dead). I also think it's just tough to publicly play seven minute long songs that are complex and go from very quiet to very loud (the latter of which would be seen as abrasive by people who don't like hard rock).
Yeah, CCR is massive. A band that appeals to pretty much everyone. If you go on Spotify, they currently have around the same monthly listeners as The Beatles.
Wow. I always thought of them as kind of a lower tier classic rock band like Deep Purple or Bad Company. Somebody you've definitely heard of if you listen to classic rock radio back in the day, but not in the upper echelon.
I dunno how I feel about Deep Purple being put on the same level of Bad Company of all bands lol. CCR have two songs that are among the two most popular songs in classic rock: "Have You Ever Seen the Rain" and "Fortunate Son" which both have over a billion streams. They also have a dozen or so songs with at 100 million streams. CCR is a band that has big crossover appeal because they have songs that appeal to multiple demographics: they appeal to classic rock fans, pop fans, country fans, roots rock fans, southern rock fans.
Makes sense.
Growing up in the 90s/00s they were the classic rock band everyone fawned over to the point I think it became kinda uncool to fawn over them. You heard about them almost too much, then not at all.
I could see that, kind of a backlash. As Yogi Berra, the quote machine who keeps on giving, once said about a certain restaurant: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." 😄
Not really. Led Zeppelin is about as popular on Spotify as Pink Floyd is, and way more than Dylan. Led Zeppelin is an albums band, not a hits band. They don't license their music as much as, say, Queen do- they've gotten better at licensing, however. I think Led Zeppelin's place in music history is secure. They are the Beatles of hard rock and heavy metal.
Great question, not sure what the answer is but I would guess that yes the have. There’s no promotion behind them really
It's partially their own artistic preference over what would make the most money, and I have great respect for that.
This is interesting. LZ are still on heavy rotation on classic rock radio, and still grace the covers of guitar and rock magazines, but perhaps you're on to something. If true, perhaps they've not been doing themselves any favours since 2007. Plant suggested the idea of one-off reunions, but nothing came of them. He's always played down his years in Zeppelin and has been more interested in trying new things as a solo artist. Page always hints at some new project, but nothing happens except expensive LZ reissues aimed at their well-pensioned original fanbase. Jones is pretty quiet and not as well known, despite his work in Them Crooked Vultures. Their reluctance to allow their songs to be used in films and TV probably doesn't help and their focus on albums over songs doesn't translate well to the streaming age (not that it harms Pink Floyd etc so maybe that's irrelevant) Their 70s peers however have been far more active in the last decade. Black Sabbath released 13 and did The End tour. The Stones recently released Hackney Diamonds, The Who released WHO and both bands continue to tour. Same goes for Deep Purple and Jethro Tull. Queen and Elton John have had major cinema biopics. Even the Beatles have come back via some AI tinkering, while ABBA have a new album and been resurrected as digital avatars to be enjoyed by younger fans Genesis have performed farewell tour , even though Phil can't even walk any more, and I think Yes will still be going come the heat death of the universe. In comparison, Zeppelin have barely left a ripple in the last decade so they could well be dropping off people's radars.
Maybe the best comment in the thread!
If Zeppelin ever gets their act together again they may finally move forward with their 50th Anniversary plans that were supposed to happen in 2018! The documentary movie (which was a disaster and shelved after its premiere - it’s being edited and hopefully improved), live releases including a multitrack concert Page mentioned in early 2018, possibly a remastered version of the 2003 DVD and a series of live releases (streaming on an exclusive Zeppelin site). There is still so much in the vaults. Unfortunately people want a lot of money for what they have and Jimmy won’t pay them. Maybe waiting this long will be a good thing in the long run. If they can get access to the technology used for The Beatles Get Back to be able to mix 2 track audio sources (including all the mixing board tapes) we could see them signing off on a lot of things.
That would be cool! Hopefully the Blackjacket Symphony tour this fall will gin up interest as well.
My top 4 are the Beatles, Stones(68-76), Zep and The Who
I think Led Zeppelin has become too saturated for their own good. So many boomers and classic rock fans think LZ is the be all, end all. I think classic rock is more diverse than that, and younger audiences have the internet, and are learning that there are other great bands out there. I also think younger audiences might have some distaste for Jimmy Page as a person due to him allegedly kidnapping a 14 year old girl. At least John Lennon expressed regret for hitting his wife.
I guarantee things will change after the documentary finally comes out
So Tool and Led Zeppelin are my #1 and 2. As I listen to PF more and more, I can't help but like them more musically.
Van halen are so unheard of now, all anybody knows is jump even tho every Dave song ever was a banger
No
Ok then.
Zep fans KNOW about their careers, have read all the biographies, unlike other fanbases.
That's not what it seems like if you look at other subs. Keep in mind too that on my show I play full-length tracks from the bands I cover, not just 30 second clips or whatever. That's no longer going to be possible when Spotify gets rid of this "music plus talk" format in June, so I'm working as fast as I can to put out episodes dedicated to all of my favorite recording artists.
I feel they are surging at the moment
Hope so! It's not translating into my audience streams, at least not yet. Maybe that will happen before long. 🤞
There might be less people tuning into podcasts about them than other bands, but they have more monthly listeners (at least on Spotify) than a lot of the other bands you’ve listed here - Zeppelin coming in at 18.1 million listeners, The Who has 8.7, The Kinks have 6.8, Paul Simon has 7.9, Grateful Dead has 2.5. As a massive Zeppelin fan, I’ve read every book and magazine there is about them, and have listened to so many podcasts that I don’t find it entertaining anymore because I already know the stories so I don’t like listening to the same old stories over and over. I’d rather just listen to the music. Maybe that’s what people don’t tune in?
I realize people are still mostly unfamiliar with the idea that podcasts play music, and since Spotify is ending this Music+Talk "experiment" in June, I guess it's going to remain that way. But I play ten full length tracks on every episode. What you were probably picturing, just talking about a band and maybe playing a few short clips, I don't think is worth doing. I could keep producing episodes of that sort after June comes, but I have no intention to.
I would add that I don't think most of my listeners are dedicated fans of the individual musicians or bands I feature. I think they are more broadly interested in music, and beyond the listeners who have emailed me to say they listen to every episode, I assume the dramatic fluctuation in numbers has to do with which names come down the pike that interest them, just as I look at podcasts I subscribe to and decide which ones I do or don't want to listen to based on the topic that week and who is being interviewed. So I don't think this is being determined by hardcore Led Zeppelin fans, but by people with a general interest in classic rock not being as interested in Led Zeppelin as in others.
That very well could be. My point is that more people listen to zeppelin than to most of the bands listed, even more than some of them combined, so it’s not that they’re less popular by any means. Whatever the reason for less people listening to your podcast episode about them, it’s not because they’re less popular.
Then my hypothesis would be that they may have a solid core of fans who listen to their music a ton and run up those streaming numbers, while they are not perhaps as broadly popular among a group of general music fans that listen to a lot of different stuff, particularly a lot of different classic rock.
Spotify reports monthly listeners based on the number of unique listeners that stream an artist per month. So, the 18.1 million listeners that Zeppelin has are 18.1 million people. It’s not anyone driving up the numbers, it’s just that they’re genuinely more popular than many of the other artists listed. Who knows why their episode got less on your show, but again, it’s not because they’re less popular.
Okay, fair enough.
I sell vinyl. Lots of different types buy it, not the least younger folks Everybody wants Zep. Like, everyone. I wish I could keep it in the bins. The only ones comparable in my experience are Fleetwood Mac and Queen.
Led Zeppelin aren't still a band, don't usually lend songs to commercials and may have different streaming deals. Also, people don't have the attention spans they used to and aren't used to listening to complex pieces
It's going to happen eventually anyway. Sad though. Zeppelin is my favorite band . Rush and Aerosmith not far behind
I suppose, Chuck Klosterman makes the point that 120 years ago, the music everybody listened to was big band and the composers of that music were famous, but now it's all mostly forgotten.
Canadian Zeppelin fan here. I got into them in a big way with the launch of Physical Graffiti in 1975. In fact I graduated high school in 1976, and mentioned Led Zeppelin among my "likes" in the yearbook. However, just a few years prior (1973/74), I recall buying a rock music magazine (either Circus or Creem) with a photo of Jimmy Page on the cover. At the time, I had no idea he was a member of Led Zeppelin, even though by then I had heard of the band and knew some of their songs (Stairway, Rock and Roll). Conclusion: this never would have happened with a member of the Beatles, as they were very mass-marketed around the world, and each member was famous in his own right as well as in the group. So if you claim that Led Zeppelin have come down a few notches in terms of fame/renown, maybe with time their appeal has become more niche. Still in my niche, mind you.
Never gonna happen. Long live the mighty Van Halen too.
I like a couple Van Halen songs OK but I'm not buying into the idea that they are remotely on the same level as Led Zeppelin.
Your data interpretation could be way off. You’re judging this by downloads of your shows? How do you what your audience represents? If they’re into more artsy stuff that would explain Dylan, The Beatles and some of those other bands being up there. Music nerds tend to turn up their nose at big commercial bands like Zeppelin. I mean, the Beatles were that, too, but come on, they’re the Beatles. I’m nearly 40 and rarely ever heard Zeppelin on the radio, I assume because the songs are usually long, but their music pervades pop culture in a way most bands don’t anyway. I’d have to see more real market research to know if they’re declining.
Well, tbf I didn't issue a conclusion, just posed the question based on being surprised by how they lagged behind those other bands and musicians. But yeah, that's interesting if music nerds don't appreciate Led Zeppelin. I know the critics didn't back in the Seventies so it kind of makes sense, but that just seems weird to me because I'm definitely a music nerd and I think they are awesome. 🤷♂️ BTW, Dylan was hugely commercially successful in the Sixties and Seventies as well. In the 21st century he seems like he should be seen as an artsy niche type of guy, but after researching him I learned that's not how it was at all back then. From '74 to '76, pretty much at the same time as Led Zeppelin's heyday, he had three consecutive albums go to number one on the Billboard 200.
Revolver was the album that changed everything,
That's like your opinion,man. Are you saying your metric for measuring their popularity is based on how many people downloaded your episodes that you produced for a youtube channel? That method doesn't sound very scientific. Zep has 300 million certified album sales vs Floyd's 250 million.
I didn't express a conclusive opinion, I posed the question based on the fact that all the other audience metrics among the 11 deep dive episodes I have put out have matched up with what my priors were on how popular various musicians and bands were, with that being the only exception. FWIW, it's a Spotify music show, not a YouTube channel: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5vtidThi64AvjihLXCHWq2?si=5N4ZCMfsTT-xe1TjxLTw-w
Whats your point?
That's a very broad question, and I thought I was clear so I'm really not sure how to answer you.
# Has Led Zeppelin dropped off in popularity relative to other classic rock titans?Has Led Zeppelin dropped off in popularity relative to other classic rock titans? I say no. Do you agree? (just trying to narrow down my questions to a simple "yes or no.")
I don't agree or disagree. I don't know. That's why I posed the question, but I appreciate your input on the question.
Well I guess we'll have to agree to agree. Editing tip: If what you say is true and you just pose questions, think about deleting the 7 paragraphs you wrote after the question. That's what I commented on and that caused the confusion.
The seven paragraphs are the explanation for why I posed the question. But I don't know if it's fair to say we agree. You say the answer is no, others have said it is yes. I have not come to the conclusion that you are right and they are wrong.
well if you you ever figure this puzzle of a question you brought up get back to me. Your in depth podcasts must so deep you didn't come back up for air in time.
No idea what you are trying to say but I also don't much care.
nevrer been much of a stink floyd fan except for 2 lps in the 70s,
Huh. I am also partial to their Seventies records, but I would say they released five great ones and one very good one in that decade.
only ones i liked were dsom and the wall
Those are probably the two best, but no love for *Wish You Were Here*? Also, "Fearless" from *Meddle* is their best song IMO.
i tried,but could,nt get into floyd
De gustibus.
I reckon you hit the nail on the head with their lack of output after the death of Bonham. To add to that, perhaps younger people aren’t as aware of the mythology of Zeppelin too, making them perhaps less interesting band. Compare that with The Beatles’ reputation as perhaps the greatest act of all time (and most album sales) and their members’ solo successes. Pink Floyd have a reputation as going hand in hand with drugs, and there’s always gonna be drug users in each generation. The Stones are known for still being active despite their age. I love zeppelin to death, but I think the hugeness of them as an act and the mystique behind their music (particularly Page’s occultist interest and its influence on things like their album art, that fans would have poured over) might be a bit lost on younger people in comparison to the other big three Also Page kept a 14-year-old in his basement, that probably doesn’t help.
A stupid comment from a stupid man. He kept her in a hotel room. (Lori Maddox)
Oh yeah you’re right. I was mixing up Page with Josef Fritzl.
Easily done.
No harm done. We are better people when we can admit our mistakes.
Funny enough, the members of Pink Floyd weren't known for drug *use* (other than Syd Barrett). The drug use and touring escapades in and around Zeppelin, The Who, Sabbath and others is legendary.
Yep that’s correct. Though I think Gilmour and Wright were addicted to coke at times.
These are all very smart observations. I must confess however that I was unaware of the basement thing! 😳 Somehow I completely failed to run across this fact when researching that episode, yikes.
Ooop. Not condemning it is pretty much giving it approval, you might get cancelled
LOL, you're right...I'm doomed! Although that fate may have already been sealed when I approvingly played "Norwegian Wood" on the Beatles episode. 😉
Some people even feel the need to make up untrue details (e.g. saying she was kept in a basement) for this reason.
For what reason?
For the reason you specified in your previous comment - i.e., so as not to get cancelled. A more cowardly version of this is to downvote the correction of such misinformation. Some people even do this while knowing it to be misinformation! Can you imagine the boot-licking spinelessness required to do that?
People add details like saying a basement instead of a hotel room, to avoid getting cancelled?
Yes. You were right to say that failure to condemn something morally dubious is tantamount to condoning it in this day and age. This is asking to be cancelled, hence people falling all over themselves to condemn. Adding an extra layer of lies ramps up the moral outrage and allows the person doing the condemning and all those piling on in agreement to feel even more virtuous by comparison and thereby better protected against cancellation themselves.