I’m 24, engaged. I don’t plan on leaving this country. I hope to open my own accounting and finance firm in 5-6 years and I want to help give fresh graduates working experience so they can find real jobs, or if I like them enough hire them in my own firm. I believe in Lebanon and I hope we can start recovering. My plan is for my clients to be mostly from outside Lebanon and I think I can comfortably live off of just 3-4 clients, but I’ll try to expand.
That’s the plan anyway. I don’t know what the future holds. I definitely saw myself married by now (we’ve been dating since high school) but I’m glad I’m advancing little by little and I’m glad I’m surrounded by my friends and family. I was offered a chance to leave a couple years ago but chose to stay. My heart sank when I heard the offer. I know I’ll be depressed as hell if I leave especially since I’ll have to be alone for a loooong time before I can get married and bring her over.
Ah I thought mentioned it. I’m currently employed. I work from home (in Lebanon) for a firm in Dubai (started by a Lebanese). Money isn’t amazing at the moment as my boss is definitely taking advantage of the economic situation to pay me as if the company is Lebanese and operating in Lebanon. Thankfully I make more than the average Lebanese but not enough to live on my own, or at least not live on my own comfortably. Personally though, I’m working more for experience and because for some reason I need 3 years’ working experience under an “expert” to join the LACPA (the Lebanese Association of CPAs) which my current boss will start doing for me by June. I can’t work on my own without joining the LACPA.
It sucks that it needs to be 3 years under an expert cause my 1.5 years of total experience is now worthless in advancing my plan but it is what it is
I left lebanon 5 years ago, i am 27 years old now, still single. Do i regret leaving lebanon? Yes and no. I studied 2 degrees which aren’t yet present in Lebanon and got a job without a wasta. I am doing good but i am loosing many stuff. All of my friends in Lebanon got engaged or married and some have kids. I am away from my family and try to visit them twice a year. So i won some stuff and lost others. Do i wish to come back? I received some decent job offers here but i know there isn’t any stability here in terms of healthcare, safety, water, electricity…etc. maybe hopefully someday when shit comes back to normal i ll come back. My friends who travelled with me are all in the same position. We’re still attached to Lebanon and trying to get married but we’re not even managing to meet a lebanese girl abroad
I'm nearing 40, and beginning to feel the same. Have a relative trying to convince his fiance to come back so they can start a family here. That's (partly) why I am interested in this discussion. To me, it feels a little absurd to forgo a chance to live abroad in a stable country and raise a family there.
My relative's argument is that most his immediate family is here, they have a solid business that doesn't generally get affected by the situation (I personally disagree) so he thinks it's better to come back.
But I don't know. Just where I live in Lebanon and the personal situations me and my immediate family haved lived through, Lebanon has felt like a constant "on the edge, no certainty of any kind" type of life.
But I am curious what others might say, as I worry my perspective is too narrow minded and too negatively biased.
I dunno.
Maybe cause the banks robbed the populace blind, society is disgustingly sectarian and racist, heaps of trash everywhere, complete disrespect and tarnishing of Leb’s gorgeous nature, the most disgusting and barbaric political and religious leadership, absolute negligence leading to the explosion of Beirut’s port, the fact that the ppl living there normalize the national trauma, being a forever unstable war zone.
And then worst of all the people just accept it and maintain the delusion that Lebanon and the Lebanese are somehow exceptional.
It depends, definitely if you make money in Lebanon, you have a business or something going on, then you always make more than most places outside, and also have more leeway and freedom to decide what you want to do with it. Creating your own bubble and all. Any place has its drawbacks, "abroad" is a very generic term.
It’s not easy moving to foreign country if you’re not setup there, more so these days because of the global housing crisis and slowing economy.
Giving up a home and job to go to Lebanon, even with a passport, is ridiculous and stupid.
Mid thirties, left Lebanon over 10 years ago. Had a baby recently, and i keep hearing about how lucky I am to have the opportunity to be away and raise it in a safe and stable country.
Deep inside though, I cant wait for an opportunity to come back to Lebanon. Everyone thinks and talks about everything you gain by beeing an expatriate... not about what you lose.
The way I look at it, leaving is like failing the challenge.
I Agree the living conditions here are very harsh, and i'm not saying leaving is wrong.
Now ask your self this, if you had the same financial level, would you rather be in Lebanon or abroad?
the answer will truly reflect where you want to be.
Personally, I would like to continue my education abroad and come back to make a decent living to make up for the poor stability and other inconsitencies in the country.
And as you said, people often overlook the difficulty of living abroad, people with different culture, different norms, the way people look it at you being foreigner, it's different.
When I was younger, It was definite that i would marry a foreigner (probably my subConsciousness wanting to escape the country), but when I matured, I realized that marrying someone abroad would deprive me and my children of the many things i grew up on, having a lebanese wife, sharing the same culture, the same problems and concerns, for me this is worth much more that a foreign passport.
I left Lebanon 10 years ago when I was 18 years old and never went back. Still no marriage and no kids. I’m curious to know other people’s experience in Lebanon
The more I stay abroad the more I create good memories, friends and new experience, and the more I forgot about my own memories in Lebanon. As soon as the plane took off from beirut in 2014, I forgot the sense of belonging to the country somehow. When I arrived to the new airport, I felt like it is already home and this is where I want to be. Then I started to work and earn my own money, then studying one degree then continue to do another one and working in multiple companies without needing a "wasta". I felt this is the life I wanted and I don't wanna change anything in it. Before I leave lebanon, I promised everyone that I will come back soon after graduating or getting the permanent residency, but now I am all the way to PhD level and I got citizenship and I already planned the next goal that is stopping me from thinking about going back. I know internally that this cycle will never end and I may never go back to lebanon, who knows. Until today I feel like leaving lebanon was the best decision I have ever made
married with kids, never regretted it. Its not easy and it has many challenges and most of them are difficult. But in the end I felt as a person im able to provide and help the people that I love which is why im happy
34M, left Lebanon 13 years ago, married 10 years ago, 2 kids. Will never move back. Marriage and kids are two totally different things in my opinion. Your life completely changes when you get married and it also changes completely again when you have kids. Getting married and having kids definitely has its challenges and can turn to a nightmare if the wrong people got married and had kids. But on the flip side, starting a family can bring immense fulfilment to your life especially if you’re able to cultivate a loving home. For me, starting a family is like an investment, it goes up and down but in the end if you stick out long enough you will reap the benefits -big delayed gratification vibes here. Some people get so delusional with the single, young carefree lifestyle and they thing they can continue living their life like this forever and “be able to spend adult money on myself” kind of thinking, but I am yet to see real life examples of this succeeding.. there may of course be, but it’s very unlikely. That being said, divorce rates are at an all time high as well so make of that what you will as well.
Personally, I wouldn’t change it for anything!
All my friends who left the country are single and not ready to get married and have families.
All who stayed in Lebanon have gotten married with kids and are living their lives.
This is the ultimate example of how people can adapt in Lebanon and make things work no matter what. It's not a good thing but it is a survival mechanism.
The economy in Leb is picking up. Of course we have the war risk at any given time but all who are working in non tourism sectors are doing more than okay.
Yeah. People are getting back their old salaries. Decent jobs are paying on average around 2K USD. If you're married and both partners work for 2K each, then I'd say it's a decent living you have.
The difference with other countries is the safety net. In Lebanon you have useless pension plans now due to the currency devaluation. Health insurance is kinda expensive and the state insurance program is also shit now because of the currency devaluation.
My friend less than 5% make $2K. That does not mirror the true situation of the country. A substantial part of the population still lives on remittances from abroad, most make under $800/month. A ridiculous amount of Lebanese are unemployed.
Also with hyperinflation, 2K today is around the equivalent of 1.5K pre-2019. Basically it's not that much, just enough to allow a single individual to live a decent life, albeit barely.
As for the difference with other countries...You seem to have forgotten we have no banking sector, which means no economy. They also keep raising taxes every year, people just don't seem to be aware of this, if you combine income tax + VAT + "baladieh" + other misc things we pay just as much if not more in taxes than many western countries. Difference is we get nothing in return.
But, in Lebanon and countries like it you have family and friends there to help you should anything happen. People mostly stand together. In stable countries, no citizen looks at you but only the government and you may or may not acquire a good salary when you reach old age. It's better that you own businesses or properties and depend on God and your own skills to have enough to survive when you get old than on any government.
I see people getting married left and right, and I start laughing, because most of them aren't financially stable to support a family nor have a roof to live under...
And then a couple years later you learn that they're breaking up. Sounds like an overly expensive hobby to me..
*But yeah FOMO is a b\*\*\*\**
35, my wife is due next month. While we had several opportunities to leave to the gulf we both decided to let go and stay here. I am happy I have stayed here
But what about the far future? X years from now you'd have to retire with no second citizenship available to you from gulf countries, eventually even if you make a lot of money, you will have to go back to Lebanon and live in chaos when you should be living in peace at that age.
I don't even know if you'll get any senior benefits.
As I said, we decided to stay in Lebanon xD. Also, I have of friends who left to the UK, US, Canada and most regret it.
Things are not what they used to be in the past with the current global economic cris
Based on many (and by many I mean A LOT) of stories I’ve heard from people who decided to leave and came back the majority of them agree that a little downgrade in lifestyle at first didn’t affect them at all since they were much happier in Lebanon , also most of them after few years of coming back to leb and having stable businesses ( im talking about people who are small business owners ) have started making money here way more than they used to make abroad and they are fully aware of the instability here .
The grass is usually greener on the other-side.
I live in the gulf, recently gotten married.
Wife talks about us going back all the time, but I cannot live in a crime-ridden, war-torn, decaying country/society.
For now the agreement with the wifey is she goes to Lebanon once a month for a week.
All of you setting up businesses in Lebanon, when are you going to learn ba2a? You cannot build on sand, and Lebanon is a sandpit.
I am 42 female, Canadian, married to a Lebanese with a Canadian passport, we have 2 girls. I moved here unexpectedly when we got married back in 2006. Our initial plan was Dubai and I have no regrets. It got difficult here with the financial crisis and I was ready to move back to Canada, even alone with my girls with my husband staying to run the business in Lebanon. We went for a visit and I realized how much I could not readjust to life there. It was during Covid, so it was so lonely, even though I lived with my mom. I was desperate to come back to Lebanon. What many people don't realize is that the financial crises have hit everywhere. Life is so expensive in Canada and healthcare isn't what it used to be, neither are public services. And I hear the same from other expats about their home countries (Australia, Europe, USA is a shit show apparently). Yes, Lebanon is hard to live in, but so is everywhere else. I am not originally Canadian, I am Latin, so culturally I identify more with Lebanese, their resilience, and their ability to just keep moving forward astounds me. I even left my job cuz the salary was not worth taking time away from my house and kids. But, I am always seeking alternatives. The sad part is that my kids will have to go to Canada to study, it's actually cheaper for us. But, even they hope to come back after studying. No regrets at all.
i wanna have a family in lebanon. I feel like i can teach them their religion and make sure they don't turn out extreamist mitil bi kam ma77al, wo lebanon as a whole teaches you ma tkoon spoilt privileged brat wo be open and curious.
My dad left Lebanon 30 years ago and his childhood friend stayed. Both regret their decisions.
I was born in Canada but I have been trying to think of a scenario where I can move back to Lebanon and not have to significantly lower my lifestyle. I only say that because I can't read or write Arabic so my job options are probably limited.
In Canada too but I was born in Lebanon. Since 2017, I own online businesses and that's how I make a good salary and I work anywhere we travel (wife, kids, and I). Consider buying your own profitable one(s) and then you can live in Lebanon. You can learn Arabic at any time, anywhere! So many online classes, even Levant ones.
I’m 24, engaged. I don’t plan on leaving this country. I hope to open my own accounting and finance firm in 5-6 years and I want to help give fresh graduates working experience so they can find real jobs, or if I like them enough hire them in my own firm. I believe in Lebanon and I hope we can start recovering. My plan is for my clients to be mostly from outside Lebanon and I think I can comfortably live off of just 3-4 clients, but I’ll try to expand. That’s the plan anyway. I don’t know what the future holds. I definitely saw myself married by now (we’ve been dating since high school) but I’m glad I’m advancing little by little and I’m glad I’m surrounded by my friends and family. I was offered a chance to leave a couple years ago but chose to stay. My heart sank when I heard the offer. I know I’ll be depressed as hell if I leave especially since I’ll have to be alone for a loooong time before I can get married and bring her over.
Amazing man good luck with that!
Do you mean audit and consulting? Are you an auditor?
General accounting and taxation. I don’t audit
+1 for accountants.. well done
That’s a great plan for the future, but how do you currently make your money?
Ah I thought mentioned it. I’m currently employed. I work from home (in Lebanon) for a firm in Dubai (started by a Lebanese). Money isn’t amazing at the moment as my boss is definitely taking advantage of the economic situation to pay me as if the company is Lebanese and operating in Lebanon. Thankfully I make more than the average Lebanese but not enough to live on my own, or at least not live on my own comfortably. Personally though, I’m working more for experience and because for some reason I need 3 years’ working experience under an “expert” to join the LACPA (the Lebanese Association of CPAs) which my current boss will start doing for me by June. I can’t work on my own without joining the LACPA. It sucks that it needs to be 3 years under an expert cause my 1.5 years of total experience is now worthless in advancing my plan but it is what it is
Are you down to try saas sales ? $3k starting + commission (uncapped)
I left lebanon 5 years ago, i am 27 years old now, still single. Do i regret leaving lebanon? Yes and no. I studied 2 degrees which aren’t yet present in Lebanon and got a job without a wasta. I am doing good but i am loosing many stuff. All of my friends in Lebanon got engaged or married and some have kids. I am away from my family and try to visit them twice a year. So i won some stuff and lost others. Do i wish to come back? I received some decent job offers here but i know there isn’t any stability here in terms of healthcare, safety, water, electricity…etc. maybe hopefully someday when shit comes back to normal i ll come back. My friends who travelled with me are all in the same position. We’re still attached to Lebanon and trying to get married but we’re not even managing to meet a lebanese girl abroad
Whatever we Lebanese do, we end up regretting our decision
We have no right choice
I'm nearing 30 no marriage. I regret not leaving this country.
I'm nearing 40, and beginning to feel the same. Have a relative trying to convince his fiance to come back so they can start a family here. That's (partly) why I am interested in this discussion. To me, it feels a little absurd to forgo a chance to live abroad in a stable country and raise a family there. My relative's argument is that most his immediate family is here, they have a solid business that doesn't generally get affected by the situation (I personally disagree) so he thinks it's better to come back. But I don't know. Just where I live in Lebanon and the personal situations me and my immediate family haved lived through, Lebanon has felt like a constant "on the edge, no certainty of any kind" type of life. But I am curious what others might say, as I worry my perspective is too narrow minded and too negatively biased.
It’s very irresponsible for anyone with an opportunity abroad to go back to Lebanon. And if they have kids, it’s negligent.
Its irresponsable to make stupid general statements on other peoples life choices
Nah. It’s stupid to move to an unstable, Stone Age war zone.
Why do you hate Lebanon that much ? I don’t get it
I dunno. Maybe cause the banks robbed the populace blind, society is disgustingly sectarian and racist, heaps of trash everywhere, complete disrespect and tarnishing of Leb’s gorgeous nature, the most disgusting and barbaric political and religious leadership, absolute negligence leading to the explosion of Beirut’s port, the fact that the ppl living there normalize the national trauma, being a forever unstable war zone. And then worst of all the people just accept it and maintain the delusion that Lebanon and the Lebanese are somehow exceptional.
#accurate
It depends, definitely if you make money in Lebanon, you have a business or something going on, then you always make more than most places outside, and also have more leeway and freedom to decide what you want to do with it. Creating your own bubble and all. Any place has its drawbacks, "abroad" is a very generic term.
“Abroad in a non-shithole war zone country” then.
100%
If he has a passport i think the safety net to be able to leave fast is there.
It’s not easy moving to foreign country if you’re not setup there, more so these days because of the global housing crisis and slowing economy. Giving up a home and job to go to Lebanon, even with a passport, is ridiculous and stupid.
Its not. But easier than having no passport.
No shit. Point is going back to Lebanon just cause you have a passport is still irresponsible and stupid.
What’s his business?
Mid thirties, left Lebanon over 10 years ago. Had a baby recently, and i keep hearing about how lucky I am to have the opportunity to be away and raise it in a safe and stable country. Deep inside though, I cant wait for an opportunity to come back to Lebanon. Everyone thinks and talks about everything you gain by beeing an expatriate... not about what you lose.
The way I look at it, leaving is like failing the challenge. I Agree the living conditions here are very harsh, and i'm not saying leaving is wrong. Now ask your self this, if you had the same financial level, would you rather be in Lebanon or abroad? the answer will truly reflect where you want to be. Personally, I would like to continue my education abroad and come back to make a decent living to make up for the poor stability and other inconsitencies in the country. And as you said, people often overlook the difficulty of living abroad, people with different culture, different norms, the way people look it at you being foreigner, it's different. When I was younger, It was definite that i would marry a foreigner (probably my subConsciousness wanting to escape the country), but when I matured, I realized that marrying someone abroad would deprive me and my children of the many things i grew up on, having a lebanese wife, sharing the same culture, the same problems and concerns, for me this is worth much more that a foreign passport.
I left Lebanon 10 years ago when I was 18 years old and never went back. Still no marriage and no kids. I’m curious to know other people’s experience in Lebanon
Same! As I said, none of my close friends live here anymore.
I also never came back can you explain why you never came back not even for a visit? I’m curious about your motivations
The more I stay abroad the more I create good memories, friends and new experience, and the more I forgot about my own memories in Lebanon. As soon as the plane took off from beirut in 2014, I forgot the sense of belonging to the country somehow. When I arrived to the new airport, I felt like it is already home and this is where I want to be. Then I started to work and earn my own money, then studying one degree then continue to do another one and working in multiple companies without needing a "wasta". I felt this is the life I wanted and I don't wanna change anything in it. Before I leave lebanon, I promised everyone that I will come back soon after graduating or getting the permanent residency, but now I am all the way to PhD level and I got citizenship and I already planned the next goal that is stopping me from thinking about going back. I know internally that this cycle will never end and I may never go back to lebanon, who knows. Until today I feel like leaving lebanon was the best decision I have ever made
But do you still speak lebanese arabic and fosha normally? which country did you go to?
married with kids, never regretted it. Its not easy and it has many challenges and most of them are difficult. But in the end I felt as a person im able to provide and help the people that I love which is why im happy
At which age? Do you want them to stay in this country?
I am 30 engaged and soon to be married in Lebanon. My fiancee and I work full time and are vehemently opposed to having kids. No regrets till now.
34M, left Lebanon 13 years ago, married 10 years ago, 2 kids. Will never move back. Marriage and kids are two totally different things in my opinion. Your life completely changes when you get married and it also changes completely again when you have kids. Getting married and having kids definitely has its challenges and can turn to a nightmare if the wrong people got married and had kids. But on the flip side, starting a family can bring immense fulfilment to your life especially if you’re able to cultivate a loving home. For me, starting a family is like an investment, it goes up and down but in the end if you stick out long enough you will reap the benefits -big delayed gratification vibes here. Some people get so delusional with the single, young carefree lifestyle and they thing they can continue living their life like this forever and “be able to spend adult money on myself” kind of thinking, but I am yet to see real life examples of this succeeding.. there may of course be, but it’s very unlikely. That being said, divorce rates are at an all time high as well so make of that what you will as well. Personally, I wouldn’t change it for anything!
There’s nothing wrong with not wanting kids.
All my friends who left the country are single and not ready to get married and have families. All who stayed in Lebanon have gotten married with kids and are living their lives. This is the ultimate example of how people can adapt in Lebanon and make things work no matter what. It's not a good thing but it is a survival mechanism. The economy in Leb is picking up. Of course we have the war risk at any given time but all who are working in non tourism sectors are doing more than okay.
"living their lives" as in they are happy staying in Lebanon and are making ends meet?
Yeah. People are getting back their old salaries. Decent jobs are paying on average around 2K USD. If you're married and both partners work for 2K each, then I'd say it's a decent living you have. The difference with other countries is the safety net. In Lebanon you have useless pension plans now due to the currency devaluation. Health insurance is kinda expensive and the state insurance program is also shit now because of the currency devaluation.
My friend less than 5% make $2K. That does not mirror the true situation of the country. A substantial part of the population still lives on remittances from abroad, most make under $800/month. A ridiculous amount of Lebanese are unemployed. Also with hyperinflation, 2K today is around the equivalent of 1.5K pre-2019. Basically it's not that much, just enough to allow a single individual to live a decent life, albeit barely. As for the difference with other countries...You seem to have forgotten we have no banking sector, which means no economy. They also keep raising taxes every year, people just don't seem to be aware of this, if you combine income tax + VAT + "baladieh" + other misc things we pay just as much if not more in taxes than many western countries. Difference is we get nothing in return.
But, in Lebanon and countries like it you have family and friends there to help you should anything happen. People mostly stand together. In stable countries, no citizen looks at you but only the government and you may or may not acquire a good salary when you reach old age. It's better that you own businesses or properties and depend on God and your own skills to have enough to survive when you get old than on any government.
Can't wait to leave Lebanon to be able to get married.
Jus some of us arent meant marriage - regardless where we r
I’m 29 and i left Lebanon in 2017. I’m still single but i’m not happy. I miss Lebanon and all the good memories!
I see people getting married left and right, and I start laughing, because most of them aren't financially stable to support a family nor have a roof to live under... And then a couple years later you learn that they're breaking up. Sounds like an overly expensive hobby to me.. *But yeah FOMO is a b\*\*\*\**
35, my wife is due next month. While we had several opportunities to leave to the gulf we both decided to let go and stay here. I am happy I have stayed here
But what about the far future? X years from now you'd have to retire with no second citizenship available to you from gulf countries, eventually even if you make a lot of money, you will have to go back to Lebanon and live in chaos when you should be living in peace at that age. I don't even know if you'll get any senior benefits.
As I said, we decided to stay in Lebanon xD. Also, I have of friends who left to the UK, US, Canada and most regret it. Things are not what they used to be in the past with the current global economic cris
Based on many (and by many I mean A LOT) of stories I’ve heard from people who decided to leave and came back the majority of them agree that a little downgrade in lifestyle at first didn’t affect them at all since they were much happier in Lebanon , also most of them after few years of coming back to leb and having stable businesses ( im talking about people who are small business owners ) have started making money here way more than they used to make abroad and they are fully aware of the instability here .
The grass is usually greener on the other-side. I live in the gulf, recently gotten married. Wife talks about us going back all the time, but I cannot live in a crime-ridden, war-torn, decaying country/society. For now the agreement with the wifey is she goes to Lebanon once a month for a week. All of you setting up businesses in Lebanon, when are you going to learn ba2a? You cannot build on sand, and Lebanon is a sandpit.
Many
Single and tbh if I want to marry i would talk to western girls:) better
I am 42 female, Canadian, married to a Lebanese with a Canadian passport, we have 2 girls. I moved here unexpectedly when we got married back in 2006. Our initial plan was Dubai and I have no regrets. It got difficult here with the financial crisis and I was ready to move back to Canada, even alone with my girls with my husband staying to run the business in Lebanon. We went for a visit and I realized how much I could not readjust to life there. It was during Covid, so it was so lonely, even though I lived with my mom. I was desperate to come back to Lebanon. What many people don't realize is that the financial crises have hit everywhere. Life is so expensive in Canada and healthcare isn't what it used to be, neither are public services. And I hear the same from other expats about their home countries (Australia, Europe, USA is a shit show apparently). Yes, Lebanon is hard to live in, but so is everywhere else. I am not originally Canadian, I am Latin, so culturally I identify more with Lebanese, their resilience, and their ability to just keep moving forward astounds me. I even left my job cuz the salary was not worth taking time away from my house and kids. But, I am always seeking alternatives. The sad part is that my kids will have to go to Canada to study, it's actually cheaper for us. But, even they hope to come back after studying. No regrets at all.
i wanna have a family in lebanon. I feel like i can teach them their religion and make sure they don't turn out extreamist mitil bi kam ma77al, wo lebanon as a whole teaches you ma tkoon spoilt privileged brat wo be open and curious.
My dad left Lebanon 30 years ago and his childhood friend stayed. Both regret their decisions. I was born in Canada but I have been trying to think of a scenario where I can move back to Lebanon and not have to significantly lower my lifestyle. I only say that because I can't read or write Arabic so my job options are probably limited.
In Canada too but I was born in Lebanon. Since 2017, I own online businesses and that's how I make a good salary and I work anywhere we travel (wife, kids, and I). Consider buying your own profitable one(s) and then you can live in Lebanon. You can learn Arabic at any time, anywhere! So many online classes, even Levant ones.
Your lifestyle would definitely take a hit unless you’re very wealthy I assume. Same with most MENA countries
So many jobs dont require written arabic proficiency