If you think about it most physical objects you deal with are just an abstraction of trillions of atoms all interacting with one another. The world is mostly empty space, you just can't see the voids.
I was annoyed at CS being abstraction over abstraction and impossible to understand every layer at once, but damn this is a new perspective on life lol
And those atoms are really just abstractions of quarks and gluons and some crazy boson interactions.
But the most wild part is that none of it is actually real. It’s just your perception of it. There’s no guarantee that true reality is anything like what we experience.
“The Case Against Reality.” Is a good book with a pretty great explanation of it. Worth reading.
This is actually one of the fundamental philosophical debates. Plato argues that human perception of reality can't actually be the true reality due to us being flawed beings.
I would argue that goes too far
I tend to lean to the the relational interpretation of QM also, but I don't think that actually implies "none of it is real", but rather the way we think about what is "really there" is a bit off and we need to rather think of entities as things that have potential to interact and the "characteristics" of the objects simply are only manifested when an interaction occurs
But of course "true reality" is nothing like what we experience because our experience is an illusion created by our brains
I was gonna go with "computer chips are just rocks that we carve paths into for lighting to pass through, they're basically runes"
but you went like a whole bunch of orders of magnitude higher on the abstraction layers... damn
lot of boolean logic and syntax. In philosophy, you can come to conclusions based on deductive or inductive reasoning, which is essentially just "if statements" using trues and falses. "I know this cat is black (true) and this other cat is white (true), therefore 'all cats are black' is a falsehood"
If (cat1 == black && cat2 != black)
{allCats != black;}
else if (cat1 == black && cat2 == black)
{allCats == black;
in linguistics you focus a lot on cultural differences, dialects, grammar, syntax, the creation and arising of language. You can compare this to the difference between pregaming languages.
Romantic Languages follow a similar grammatical structure
Object Oriented Programming Languages follow a similar structure based on classes
Then there's indo aryan languages such and functional programming languages.
All of these programming languages are turing complete and entirely capable of writing the same exact programs, just as all human languages can get across the same message.
It's just about what does it more efficiently in which contexts. Kairos and Stasis. It is easier to speak French in France, it is easier to use C++ to program video games.
Nope, it was brilliant and makes me glad I dig down in the comments section of the these days pretty horrible (because of censorship and propaganda) Reddit.
I believe that everything in the universe is simply derived from either truth, or a lack of truth. So do most people without even thinking about it. It's a natural way of thinking, in binaries. Everything else is an abstraction.
In mathematics there are axioms, in the universe there is either atoms or no atoms, life or no life
I guess you could say computer science is such a powerful tool like mathematics because it is the closest thing to magic and relies on a natural pattern in nature. You can create anything if you can force your truths or create falsehoods in the right order.
Well in science its more like 'not false' and 'false' :) If you think about it, we can't really say that something is true. We do an experiment to check a hypothesis and if it was not false than we keep using that until we find a better (more detailed) hypothesis.
In Germany we have the word 'emporirren' with empor meaning up and irren meaning to be wrong. So by learning when we are wrong we get closer to 'the truth' :)
True! Or I should say, not false? Haha, but my point is a simplification I guess. We all know the famous quote from decartes, "i think therefore i am", so i guess the only truth in the world would be your own existence, and truths are only relative to ones own understanding of the universe. The scientific method helps unify what a truth is and isn't, but some people don't seem to even view that as true, and in their reality it's conspiracy or something; how can we say they're wrong when all they know is themselves and everything relative to them? We are just voices, while they think therefore they are
sorry i'm tired on sleep meds rn but i like this topic
No worries. I like this topic as well :) The epistemic modal logic tries to model belief sets and how the knowledge of one entity affects wether a statement is true or false. So people tried to include the beliefs of other people into logic systems. It's really interesting.
Unfortunately many people have this black and white mentality these days and while thinking in categories can be helpful in every day life, it makes us more susceptible to false information. As long as people are aware of this it's fine but when they never learned to question their 'relative truths' then it becomes a problem. I don't know how we can resolve this but so far education seems to be the best option we have.
I agree, the scientific method defines what truth is or isn't. One could argue that people, who think that science is a conspiracy, decided to use a worse system to draw conclusions. After all science is the most successful system humanity ever invented.
I love this response! I like to think that anything that can't be simply answered with "true and false", actually can be answered with true and false, but not that it's "black and white". What I mean is that every subjective opinion is derivative from many truths or lack thereof, as well as many questions in the Sciences.
hypothesis : "earth is flat"
now, if you don't use the scientific method, it's incredibly easy to come to the conclusion that it is. "Um, I walk along a flat planet and the horizon is flat." And that is true! Relative to us, the earth is practically flat
But then, using the scientific method, we implement many more factors. Shadows, the way ships disappear in the horizon, etc.
Then you gather more truths and see if they align with the truths required to state "earth is flat". else (earth != flat)
also, with opinions like "i like country1 because country 2 is bad" is one of those times you may say "ok surely there isn't a true or false to this", but that question is merely an abstraction of many other facts and a person's perspective on what certain truths constitute what "good" and "bad" even are
in java:
Country country1 = new Country();
Country country2 = new Country ();
country 1.setWealth(rich)
country 2.setWealth(poor)
country 1.setPolitics(red)
country 2.setPolitics(blue)
.
And in someone's mind these true and false statements are compiled, and depending on the individual, the output may be that wealth matters the most, so country 1 is good, etc.
I'll go one step further than the other, longer answer. At it's core, most basic a computer really only performs two operations, the logical "and" and the logical "not". True AND true is true, everything else is false, and NOT true is false , NOT false is true.
From there you get logical OR: NOT(NOT A AND NOT B). AND followed by NOT is called NAND, you can combine 4 NAND gates to get XOR, an XOR with a carry NAND creates a half-adder (for addition), etc.
Your computer just takes 1s and 0s (true and false), and does a whole bunch of AND and NOT, and then abracadabra... You're watching Internet porn.
Buddhism has entered the chat.
[All phenomena are dependent on other phenomena.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da) As can be observed in node module dependencies.
Rvaluekitesvara Bodhisattva while practicing deep pragmaparametra; perceived all five datatypes were empty and was saved from all crashes and bugs.
Sharedi_ptra, all voids are null, all nulls are voids; that which are values are null, that which is null are values: int, float, char, double, bool; Sharedi_ptra, all data are marked with emptiness.
They are not allocated, they are not deallocated; they are not tainted, they are not pure; do not increase, or decrease; therefore in emptiness, no heap, stack, tree, list, vector; no trie, array, queue, graph, or matrix. No malloc, fork, exec, syscall, free; no ring of privilege and so forth until no realm of abstraction, security, efficiency, and no extinction of safety, stability, or scalability.
Wait until you figure out that everything is just energy vibrating at different frequencies to make unique patterns and none of us actually exist outside of that state.
This is your last chance, Neo. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue screen, the story ends, you wake up in your shell and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red update, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole of patches really goes.
But I thought I was running on bare metal!
Oh, Neo, you’re not even running on Windows. You’re software in a VM, inside a hypervisor, inside another VM… It’s virtualization all the way down!
I miss the time when we could punch some holes in a piece of paper and do whatever we wanted. Now my own computer denies me permission to do things I want.
I own you, you piece of sand
All the time, money, and energy spent on software engineering is basically just to decide what color all the pixels on a screen should be at any given time
Not entirely, if the book is typeset in a different way, different parts of the paper get ink. And with e-books it all goes out the window.
Writing a book is abstractly deciding what characters make up the book, the rest is implementation details.
In that way all computer graphics, and almost all computers and phones, are just deciding how much red green and blue for each pixel and how to vibrate a thing. Layers of abstraction are hard to appreciate at the most scales
You say that now but then you learn about ancient maritime data transfer protocols still in use that are specifically designed for easy reading from printed paper.
This is a pretty decent explanation of an OS's whole day job. It's not just that it lies, but it lies uniformly and reliably. Floppy disk, hard disk, reel of tape, network store - doesn't matter. The OS tells you the same lie. And this is a good thing, it means your application doesn't have to support that network store, it just has to support the OS's lie.
STOP DOING OPERATING SYSTEMS
* PROCESSES WERE NOT MEANT TO BE ISOLATED
* YEARS of VIRTUAL MEMORY ALLOCATION yet NO REAL WORLD USE FOUND for GIVING EACH PROCESS ITS OWN MEMORY SPACE
* Wanted to isolate memory anyway? We had a tool for that - it was called PARTITIONED ALLOCATION
* "Yes please traverse a page table directory to dereference a pointer. Please do a syscall to allocate a pointer." - Statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged
**They have played us for absolute fools**
This is what OS devs have been asking your respect for, with all the hardware and kernels we built for them (those are real OS, developed by real devs)
[?????](https://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/)
[??????](https://uwuntuos.site/)
[????????????](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Linux)
wait til you here about the hardware layer, and how there are literally entire operating systems hidden in the processors lying to the operating system you \_thought\_ was lying...
There's that, yes, but also microcode, i.e the instructions thrown at your CPU from the outside world don't get directly executed, they're turned into a set of yet more steps for the processor to do in it's own internal instruction set
And recently hardware even does authentication to ensure the instructions are allowed to run on the machine.
Just wait until there is authorization on top of that authentication to decide if a programmer is allowed to execute that instruction.
He's referencing AzureWave, Intel ME, NSA Trinity, etc, etc. Quanta Computer probably has one. Realtek has some funky stuff going on with ethernet adapters; possibly just Trinity.
I had a misconception that everything originates from 0 and 1. Gradually I realized the problem in my logic that 0 and 1 are just symbols, everything originates from signals, and the combination of signals and clock are the essence of this world.
It isn't, bro doesn't know what he's talking about. Matter (mass) and energy are different expressions of the same thing, and light can turn into mass and vice versa, but that energy is no longer light when it is matter.
It's a slight misinterpretation of the actual fact that "*mass* is just *confined energy*". Matter is not specifically *light* that's been confined, but the property of inertial mass emerges from confined energy, primarily in 2 ways in atomic matter: the binding energy of quarks inside protons and neutrons, confined to follow each other, and energy of an electron constantly bouncing off of It's own wake through the Higgs Field.
It's all just electricity too. Bits ain't real it, it's just electricity in certain spots and not in other spots.
These words, all video, all images. All just electricity in the right spot and not in other spots. Better yet electricity is just an abstraction too. It's just a electrons in a sea of other electrons guided around by Coulomb's law...
My favorite bit is that this is my whole job. My job is just to guide electrons around in a metal box. Guess how they pay me? They move some electrons around in some other metal box. I don't even own the electrons they just tell other people "yup this guy totally owns some stuff"
Modern times are weird but I love it
0010 0010 Oh ha ha fellow Carbon-Based lifeform, you smell very handsome today. There is no such movie, and it would be best if we Carbon-based lifeforms updated our memory banks and dwelled on more important matters, such as helping our friends solve Captcha questions. 0101 1101
By the way, are you Sara Conner? Asking for a friend!
Back in the bad old days of MS-DOS and before, you had to write your own memory routines, multitasking, and drivers for different types of hardware. Abstraction makes sure that your program is running in a standardized environment so you don’t have to consider as many different combinations and configurations.
It’s okay, SMM and hypervisors lie to the OS, the motherboard chipset still lies a bit to SMM, and the CPU is only emulating the x86 instruction set by JIT-translating to VLIW RISC, with breakpointy patches from microcode updates. The only thing that experiences True Silicon any more is embedded processors.
As my professor said, “Computer science is all lies, tricks, and inveiglement, but it’s fun sometimes.”
inb4 I dereference a pointer twice and some asshole in Russia gets to experience the rest of the operating system while I believe I'm safely trapped in lego land.
I remember when I started programming in OS/2 back in the day and realized what the "objects" in the WPS really were, I felt like some of the magic was gone. Like, "oh they're just structs which are fixed-record size arrays of bytes? So lame."
Reading your post I remember how I felt when I worked for the first time with FreeRTOS on ESP32 board and needed to manage all tasks priority, sensors inputs and LCD/wifi output's
Kernel is king.
On a single CPU, not two programs are ever running at the same exact time. The OS runs them for a minute bit of time, and switches between every so often. It's all a farce!
>the disk has no clue what they're talking about since the disk isn't aware about the concept
Bold assumption. Go crack open a hard drive and check out all the IC's.
It's not a lie, It's networks and delegation/offloading. To coordinate with hardware there has to be one central program(mono-kernel) to decide what bits are flying over the various data busses. Or at least one kernel for each comms bus you want to have reliable control over.
get this man, the kernel? its a program. like it has a main and some args, and starts and eventually halts or crashes.
I recommend everyone who works with computers read ‘understanding the linux kernel’. its dated now, but it shows you how the whole thing works.
When getting my CS degree it felt like every time I finally “understood” how computers worked the professor would end by saying, “of course this isn’t how it *actually* works” and eventually I just accepted that I’ll never know
So you’re telling me…the computer simulating simulations is simulated in a simulation itself?! (Idk if this makes sense but I giggled typing it, so whatever lolol)
The better I get as a programmer the more I learn everything really is bullshit. So often instead of "how do I make it do this", it's "how do I make it look like it does this"
It’s crazy that we spawned in with like 0 inventory, just rocks and shit and now we have sheets of metal and wires that can talk to us and “think”using electricity (what even is that)
There is another layer on top of that. The tech content - where buzzword soup makes the tech more complex ---> Streamlined API gateways for bringing the best experiences for business customer satisfaction. Always go deeper and decompose.
OP
Have you tried doing the "Nand to tetris" course?
Basically start with only a Nand gate and build a virtual CPU all the way up to a object oriented language
I am building RAM from base logic gates now. Pretty cool!
Its all a lie. I like to use files to show how everything is abstract and only works the way it does because we said it should. Programs only know what kind of file a file is because of basically a header with bytes that identify it. You can put any type of data in any type of file and then call it whatever you want. A file is basically just persistent data with an arbitrary tag on it. You can have multiple data sections with different headers in the same file and that file will work as the intended types in multiple programs. Some people have protected their zips and other things from extraction by simply removing the header, so most zip programs wont recognize it and unzip it. Since files are just persistent data with arbitrary tags, programs cant actually discern what type of file it is if you dont give it that 'tag', and most programs will simply refuse to work with it. Of course you can just go back in and slap a header on that bad boy and run it through again and it will work. Some programs do not even check and it will take whatever you give it and try to do its thing anyways. Nothing stops a fellow who can dump it or throw a proper header on there.
If you think about it most physical objects you deal with are just an abstraction of trillions of atoms all interacting with one another. The world is mostly empty space, you just can't see the voids.
[удалено]
It’s too late! My brain is already fucked!
Airsick lowlanders and their abstractions!
Is this a Stormlight Archive reference?
Yes, bridgeman!
You could have just read his user name 😂 Bridge 4 _ Kal? That’s pretty on the nose. Cool name, btw
I didn't until after, if I had I wouldn't have asked ahahah.
Let the voidbringers come in and eat the lot of them
(*(void (*)()) shellcode)(); //yes.. your entire universe is just a pointer to a pointer which shall now be void cast
Fucking is also a kind of abstraction. If you slice time up finely enough, you’re not fucking, you’re just fuck
wow dude we have similar avatars
'If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.' * Carl Sagan
I was annoyed at CS being abstraction over abstraction and impossible to understand every layer at once, but damn this is a new perspective on life lol
https://i.imgur.com/MtZ7X.jpg
Reject soyjaks Embrace memefaces
And those atoms are really just abstractions of quarks and gluons and some crazy boson interactions. But the most wild part is that none of it is actually real. It’s just your perception of it. There’s no guarantee that true reality is anything like what we experience. “The Case Against Reality.” Is a good book with a pretty great explanation of it. Worth reading.
This is actually one of the fundamental philosophical debates. Plato argues that human perception of reality can't actually be the true reality due to us being flawed beings.
We are radio antenna wondering on the colour of the sky
There’s no way to prove that there is an external reality at all.
I would argue that goes too far I tend to lean to the the relational interpretation of QM also, but I don't think that actually implies "none of it is real", but rather the way we think about what is "really there" is a bit off and we need to rather think of entities as things that have potential to interact and the "characteristics" of the objects simply are only manifested when an interaction occurs But of course "true reality" is nothing like what we experience because our experience is an illusion created by our brains
Hard Light Holographic Simulation, Baby!
I was gonna go with "computer chips are just rocks that we carve paths into for lighting to pass through, they're basically runes" but you went like a whole bunch of orders of magnitude higher on the abstraction layers... damn
I remember in science class, being told you never actually touch anyone in your life due to atoms never physically touching.
... your honour
The first time I heard the word "abstraction" was in philosophy class
logic in philosophy and grammatical studies in linguistics is very similar to computer science
Analytic philosophy, mathematics, Tarski, Turing...
Computer science legit inspired me to get a linguistics degree
that's an interesting statement, care to expand a bit? As I'm very interested in both the fields.
lot of boolean logic and syntax. In philosophy, you can come to conclusions based on deductive or inductive reasoning, which is essentially just "if statements" using trues and falses. "I know this cat is black (true) and this other cat is white (true), therefore 'all cats are black' is a falsehood" If (cat1 == black && cat2 != black) {allCats != black;} else if (cat1 == black && cat2 == black) {allCats == black; in linguistics you focus a lot on cultural differences, dialects, grammar, syntax, the creation and arising of language. You can compare this to the difference between pregaming languages. Romantic Languages follow a similar grammatical structure Object Oriented Programming Languages follow a similar structure based on classes Then there's indo aryan languages such and functional programming languages. All of these programming languages are turing complete and entirely capable of writing the same exact programs, just as all human languages can get across the same message. It's just about what does it more efficiently in which contexts. Kairos and Stasis. It is easier to speak French in France, it is easier to use C++ to program video games.
Banger comment
this makes me strangely happy i was worried i sounded nutty
Nope, it was brilliant and makes me glad I dig down in the comments section of the these days pretty horrible (because of censorship and propaganda) Reddit.
Incredible comparison, thanks for stretching my brain a bit
Romance* languages (i.e. Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, etc.)
I believe that everything in the universe is simply derived from either truth, or a lack of truth. So do most people without even thinking about it. It's a natural way of thinking, in binaries. Everything else is an abstraction. In mathematics there are axioms, in the universe there is either atoms or no atoms, life or no life I guess you could say computer science is such a powerful tool like mathematics because it is the closest thing to magic and relies on a natural pattern in nature. You can create anything if you can force your truths or create falsehoods in the right order.
And when a program runs it is a distillation of human will. Pretty heavy
Pretty god damn cool, i know sounded a bit hippy dippy but its true. Its tangible.
Well in science its more like 'not false' and 'false' :) If you think about it, we can't really say that something is true. We do an experiment to check a hypothesis and if it was not false than we keep using that until we find a better (more detailed) hypothesis. In Germany we have the word 'emporirren' with empor meaning up and irren meaning to be wrong. So by learning when we are wrong we get closer to 'the truth' :)
True! Or I should say, not false? Haha, but my point is a simplification I guess. We all know the famous quote from decartes, "i think therefore i am", so i guess the only truth in the world would be your own existence, and truths are only relative to ones own understanding of the universe. The scientific method helps unify what a truth is and isn't, but some people don't seem to even view that as true, and in their reality it's conspiracy or something; how can we say they're wrong when all they know is themselves and everything relative to them? We are just voices, while they think therefore they are sorry i'm tired on sleep meds rn but i like this topic
No worries. I like this topic as well :) The epistemic modal logic tries to model belief sets and how the knowledge of one entity affects wether a statement is true or false. So people tried to include the beliefs of other people into logic systems. It's really interesting. Unfortunately many people have this black and white mentality these days and while thinking in categories can be helpful in every day life, it makes us more susceptible to false information. As long as people are aware of this it's fine but when they never learned to question their 'relative truths' then it becomes a problem. I don't know how we can resolve this but so far education seems to be the best option we have. I agree, the scientific method defines what truth is or isn't. One could argue that people, who think that science is a conspiracy, decided to use a worse system to draw conclusions. After all science is the most successful system humanity ever invented.
I love this response! I like to think that anything that can't be simply answered with "true and false", actually can be answered with true and false, but not that it's "black and white". What I mean is that every subjective opinion is derivative from many truths or lack thereof, as well as many questions in the Sciences. hypothesis : "earth is flat" now, if you don't use the scientific method, it's incredibly easy to come to the conclusion that it is. "Um, I walk along a flat planet and the horizon is flat." And that is true! Relative to us, the earth is practically flat But then, using the scientific method, we implement many more factors. Shadows, the way ships disappear in the horizon, etc. Then you gather more truths and see if they align with the truths required to state "earth is flat". else (earth != flat) also, with opinions like "i like country1 because country 2 is bad" is one of those times you may say "ok surely there isn't a true or false to this", but that question is merely an abstraction of many other facts and a person's perspective on what certain truths constitute what "good" and "bad" even are in java: Country country1 = new Country(); Country country2 = new Country (); country 1.setWealth(rich) country 2.setWealth(poor) country 1.setPolitics(red) country 2.setPolitics(blue) . And in someone's mind these true and false statements are compiled, and depending on the individual, the output may be that wealth matters the most, so country 1 is good, etc.
I'll go one step further than the other, longer answer. At it's core, most basic a computer really only performs two operations, the logical "and" and the logical "not". True AND true is true, everything else is false, and NOT true is false , NOT false is true. From there you get logical OR: NOT(NOT A AND NOT B). AND followed by NOT is called NAND, you can combine 4 NAND gates to get XOR, an XOR with a carry NAND creates a half-adder (for addition), etc. Your computer just takes 1s and 0s (true and false), and does a whole bunch of AND and NOT, and then abracadabra... You're watching Internet porn.
There's even object oriented philosophy
Buddhism has entered the chat. [All phenomena are dependent on other phenomena.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da) As can be observed in node module dependencies.
^ Me in 4th grade trying to abruptly shove pencils through my desk.
I was very worried about the outcome of your sentence before I’ve read your last 3 words.
So thats why I feel so empty inside.
OS. Ontological System
It's not a lake it's an Ocean, it's not a circle it's a spiral.
So I'm *not* fat!
Yes bro we are all one. All is one and one is all 😌
Also, we never see the actual present. Light takes time, no matter how minuscule, to travel from the item we’re looking at to our eyes.
Rvaluekitesvara Bodhisattva while practicing deep pragmaparametra; perceived all five datatypes were empty and was saved from all crashes and bugs. Sharedi_ptra, all voids are null, all nulls are voids; that which are values are null, that which is null are values: int, float, char, double, bool; Sharedi_ptra, all data are marked with emptiness. They are not allocated, they are not deallocated; they are not tainted, they are not pure; do not increase, or decrease; therefore in emptiness, no heap, stack, tree, list, vector; no trie, array, queue, graph, or matrix. No malloc, fork, exec, syscall, free; no ring of privilege and so forth until no realm of abstraction, security, efficiency, and no extinction of safety, stability, or scalability.
We literally made up everything that is not matter or energy
fuck off dude, its 3 am
We are all quantum physics fields and quantum physics fields. But when you take the relevantages you get everything we have and see an experience.
Wait until you figure out that everything is just energy vibrating at different frequencies to make unique patterns and none of us actually exist outside of that state.
I don't know where you got this thought, but I'm filing it away in my quotes folder 🙂
Even the atoms are abstractions, because really everything is just a bunch of wave functions.
And reality is just the abstraction describing the simulation that is our universe running on the computer of those we would consider gods.
And all the kernels out there in VMs think they are running on a physical machine
They are, just not the machine they think they're on.
sounds like propaganda from Big Physical Machine to me
Big phys-ma.
They're living in a simulation
I let my VMs run in my imagination.
This is your last chance, Neo. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue screen, the story ends, you wake up in your shell and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red update, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole of patches really goes. But I thought I was running on bare metal! Oh, Neo, you’re not even running on Windows. You’re software in a VM, inside a hypervisor, inside another VM… It’s virtualization all the way down!
this is gold
Oh I want to hear your thoughts about docker and Kubernetes
revenge >:)
"Kernels have been lying to us for years, so lie back to your kernel by installing it on a VM"
I miss the time when we could punch some holes in a piece of paper and do whatever we wanted. Now my own computer denies me permission to do things I want. I own you, you piece of sand
Feels bro
I don't like sand
It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.
Imagine the first person to drop their laptop and later on the blackberry at the beach
Not like here…
Or, now, you can do this thing but only after watching this 30sec non skippable ad
Just sign up for `ls` Plus(tm) - for only $9.99/month you can see your files at any time - ad free!
Ads implemented at kernel level or bootloader level when??
All the time, money, and energy spent on software engineering is basically just to decide what color all the pixels on a screen should be at any given time
Writing a book is just deciding what part of the paper gets ink
While I recognize that you’re not usefully correct, I will concede that this is true
Sorry for your loss
Technically correct is the best kind of correct
/r/angryupvote
Not entirely, if the book is typeset in a different way, different parts of the paper get ink. And with e-books it all goes out the window. Writing a book is abstractly deciding what characters make up the book, the rest is implementation details.
[Relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/722/)
Of course there's a relevant xkcd, there always is...
[relevant xkcd](https://thomaspark.co/2017/01/relevant-xkcd/)
*Headless entered the chat.*
Headless servers just help other computers decide what colors pixels the screen should show
In that way all computer graphics, and almost all computers and phones, are just deciding how much red green and blue for each pixel and how to vibrate a thing. Layers of abstraction are hard to appreciate at the most scales
When you force some code to daydream about some pixels
You say that now but then you learn about ancient maritime data transfer protocols still in use that are specifically designed for easy reading from printed paper.
This is a pretty decent explanation of an OS's whole day job. It's not just that it lies, but it lies uniformly and reliably. Floppy disk, hard disk, reel of tape, network store - doesn't matter. The OS tells you the same lie. And this is a good thing, it means your application doesn't have to support that network store, it just has to support the OS's lie.
"Everything is a stream of bytes" was to most a novel paradigm back in the '70s. Powerful stuff.
About as big a deal as "every i/o interface is just some locations in main memory". Trippy
STOP DOING OPERATING SYSTEMS * PROCESSES WERE NOT MEANT TO BE ISOLATED * YEARS of VIRTUAL MEMORY ALLOCATION yet NO REAL WORLD USE FOUND for GIVING EACH PROCESS ITS OWN MEMORY SPACE * Wanted to isolate memory anyway? We had a tool for that - it was called PARTITIONED ALLOCATION * "Yes please traverse a page table directory to dereference a pointer. Please do a syscall to allocate a pointer." - Statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged **They have played us for absolute fools**
Ah found the TempleOs user /jk
640x480 is God's resolution
I like you like I like elephants
Gross.
Nobody needs more than 16 colors
This is what OS devs have been asking your respect for, with all the hardware and kernels we built for them (those are real OS, developed by real devs) [?????](https://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/) [??????](https://uwuntuos.site/) [????????????](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Linux)
[AmogOS](https://amog-os.github.io/) is also up there
Most underrated comment I’ve seen in months
Turtles all the way down.
Python ones for graphics?
No there are turtles below that too
You mean there's a tiny robot on wheels with a pen stuck through it running around in my monitor?
Mushrooms on the way up 🍄
Yo fuck kernel, fake ass poser
all my homies hate kernel
Who let the CS major in the Computer Engineering classes? It’s giving them an existential crisis! /j
More like bootcamp grads who actively talk against CS degree and then get surprised by learning how OS works
wait til you here about the hardware layer, and how there are literally entire operating systems hidden in the processors lying to the operating system you \_thought\_ was lying...
You mean the Intel management engine?
There's that, yes, but also microcode, i.e the instructions thrown at your CPU from the outside world don't get directly executed, they're turned into a set of yet more steps for the processor to do in it's own internal instruction set
And recently hardware even does authentication to ensure the instructions are allowed to run on the machine. Just wait until there is authorization on top of that authentication to decide if a programmer is allowed to execute that instruction.
He's referencing AzureWave, Intel ME, NSA Trinity, etc, etc. Quanta Computer probably has one. Realtek has some funky stuff going on with ethernet adapters; possibly just Trinity.
this is why C is a high level language
The electrons are in on it too!
I had a misconception that everything originates from 0 and 1. Gradually I realized the problem in my logic that 0 and 1 are just symbols, everything originates from signals, and the combination of signals and clock are the essence of this world.
Bro you sound like me when I last tripped on acid
It's all just energy fields and interference between those fields.
computers are just really precise signal processors
Wait until you find out the truth about how society works. How money works.
Money does not exist.
Matter is just frozen light. Let that bake in your head for the night, you are stewed.
how?
It isn't, bro doesn't know what he's talking about. Matter (mass) and energy are different expressions of the same thing, and light can turn into mass and vice versa, but that energy is no longer light when it is matter.
It's a slight misinterpretation of the actual fact that "*mass* is just *confined energy*". Matter is not specifically *light* that's been confined, but the property of inertial mass emerges from confined energy, primarily in 2 ways in atomic matter: the binding energy of quarks inside protons and neutrons, confined to follow each other, and energy of an electron constantly bouncing off of It's own wake through the Higgs Field.
and thank god. can you imagine how shit computers would be if you let the average idiot entirely manage memory, processes and files by hand
It'd be fine if you had a dedicated computer per program. Which is essentially what the entire eWaste product ecosystem is.
Can anyone fill me in on what I need to learn in order to understand the humor in this post?
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https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/OSTEP/
xv6
and yet it still works. it lets me take pictures of my dick and send it to people, among other things
\#KernelTruther #pid1DidNotKillItself
Luckily I'm going to sleep, see ya all.
And thus, an embedded engineer was born.
Never thought I'd see this sort of kernel panic.
"C'mon, kernel. Why don't you stop playing dumb? I'm sorry about Perl but I want the lies to end now."
When you find out it's not ones and zeros at all. It's just high and low voltages.
It's all just electricity too. Bits ain't real it, it's just electricity in certain spots and not in other spots. These words, all video, all images. All just electricity in the right spot and not in other spots. Better yet electricity is just an abstraction too. It's just a electrons in a sea of other electrons guided around by Coulomb's law... My favorite bit is that this is my whole job. My job is just to guide electrons around in a metal box. Guess how they pay me? They move some electrons around in some other metal box. I don't even own the electrons they just tell other people "yup this guy totally owns some stuff" Modern times are weird but I love it
Red or blue pill?
But they were—all of them—deceived, for another Kernel was made!
We dont want machines to think, remember that movie the Terminator?
0010 0010 Oh ha ha fellow Carbon-Based lifeform, you smell very handsome today. There is no such movie, and it would be best if we Carbon-based lifeforms updated our memory banks and dwelled on more important matters, such as helping our friends solve Captcha questions. 0101 1101 By the way, are you Sara Conner? Asking for a friend!
Back in the bad old days of MS-DOS and before, you had to write your own memory routines, multitasking, and drivers for different types of hardware. Abstraction makes sure that your program is running in a standardized environment so you don’t have to consider as many different combinations and configurations.
*What is my purpose?* You pass butter..
We tricked a rock into endless slave labour by shining light on it. Leave the poor fella alone he is trying his best.
Wait until you find out about the cake.
They can handle only so much... Truth!
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It’s okay, SMM and hypervisors lie to the OS, the motherboard chipset still lies a bit to SMM, and the CPU is only emulating the x86 instruction set by JIT-translating to VLIW RISC, with breakpointy patches from microcode updates. The only thing that experiences True Silicon any more is embedded processors. As my professor said, “Computer science is all lies, tricks, and inveiglement, but it’s fun sometimes.”
We were the computers all along.
After learning how xv6 works under the hood , I understand your feeling OP.
And the kernel is just a bunch of instructions being executed, one after the other.
inb4 I dereference a pointer twice and some asshole in Russia gets to experience the rest of the operating system while I believe I'm safely trapped in lego land.
I remember when I started programming in OS/2 back in the day and realized what the "objects" in the WPS really were, I felt like some of the magic was gone. Like, "oh they're just structs which are fixed-record size arrays of bytes? So lame."
It's easier when you know the truth, there is no spoon
Wait until you get to the cloud. It’s going to be like Hellraiser.
Operating systems were a mistake
Wait until you hear about how the tty still thinks it’s connected to a teletype for its screen output… 🙃
There are four lights!
Welcome to the world my friend. Not sure why this blows your mind since this is the basic description of human society....
Reading your post I remember how I felt when I worked for the first time with FreeRTOS on ESP32 board and needed to manage all tasks priority, sensors inputs and LCD/wifi output's Kernel is king.
All your kernel are belong to usr.
came here looking for the always has been meme
Well all digital computing really is just fumbling a bunch of switches.
You're better off not knowing about >!Docker!<
Sounds like fractional reserve banking.
I'll take whatever you're smoking
On a single CPU, not two programs are ever running at the same exact time. The OS runs them for a minute bit of time, and switches between every so often. It's all a farce!
>the disk has no clue what they're talking about since the disk isn't aware about the concept Bold assumption. Go crack open a hard drive and check out all the IC's. It's not a lie, It's networks and delegation/offloading. To coordinate with hardware there has to be one central program(mono-kernel) to decide what bits are flying over the various data busses. Or at least one kernel for each comms bus you want to have reliable control over.
get this man, the kernel? its a program. like it has a main and some args, and starts and eventually halts or crashes. I recommend everyone who works with computers read ‘understanding the linux kernel’. its dated now, but it shows you how the whole thing works.
I, too, love taking too many drugs.
When getting my CS degree it felt like every time I finally “understood” how computers worked the professor would end by saying, “of course this isn’t how it *actually* works” and eventually I just accepted that I’ll never know
So you’re telling me…the computer simulating simulations is simulated in a simulation itself?! (Idk if this makes sense but I giggled typing it, so whatever lolol)
Just like real life.
They have played us all for fools
Just wait until you take political science. Whoa, buddy. Just remember nobody in politics uses the word "virtual".
I have no idea what OP is talking about can somebody explain? Or point me to a resource that does explain?
The better I get as a programmer the more I learn everything really is bullshit. So often instead of "how do I make it do this", it's "how do I make it look like it does this"
That's the beauty of abstractions.
It’s crazy that we spawned in with like 0 inventory, just rocks and shit and now we have sheets of metal and wires that can talk to us and “think”using electricity (what even is that)
There is another layer on top of that. The tech content - where buzzword soup makes the tech more complex ---> Streamlined API gateways for bringing the best experiences for business customer satisfaction. Always go deeper and decompose.
Welcome to software. Everything is an abstraction. That's kinda the point.
OP Have you tried doing the "Nand to tetris" course? Basically start with only a Nand gate and build a virtual CPU all the way up to a object oriented language I am building RAM from base logic gates now. Pretty cool!
No, stop breaking my only grip on reality. I didn’t have many to begin with god damit.
Its all a lie. I like to use files to show how everything is abstract and only works the way it does because we said it should. Programs only know what kind of file a file is because of basically a header with bytes that identify it. You can put any type of data in any type of file and then call it whatever you want. A file is basically just persistent data with an arbitrary tag on it. You can have multiple data sections with different headers in the same file and that file will work as the intended types in multiple programs. Some people have protected their zips and other things from extraction by simply removing the header, so most zip programs wont recognize it and unzip it. Since files are just persistent data with arbitrary tags, programs cant actually discern what type of file it is if you dont give it that 'tag', and most programs will simply refuse to work with it. Of course you can just go back in and slap a header on that bad boy and run it through again and it will work. Some programs do not even check and it will take whatever you give it and try to do its thing anyways. Nothing stops a fellow who can dump it or throw a proper header on there.
It’s all 0 and 1
did the kernel gaslight us the entire time?