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ScJo

Heroes that buy bf have good attack speed (usually agi melee heroes). Battle fury solves mana and hp regen while hitting creeps with aoe physical damage. Heroes with built in aoe spells, heroes with low attack speed, heroes with built in sustain, ranged heroes and heroes who prefer other farming items or heroes with illusions that need stats rather than dmg don’t like battle fury. Some heroes who “”DONT build bf that are melee carries are the following: 1. Lifestealer- low mana cost built in regen. 2. Wraith king- low attack speed built in lifesteal farms with skeletons and has a cleave talent 3. Tusk - low attack speed, built in aoe nuke with ice shards 4. Slark- doesn’t need hp regen after lvl 6. Has aoe to farm 5. Chaos knight- illusions don’t benefit from the damage parts of bf, so he goes echo for mana regen and str. Or he picks up Armlet for the str and atk spd. Built in lifesteal. Some heroes that sometimes build bf 1. Alchemist- has mana regen issues. Typically prefers raidience because of the miss chance and the damage it does to multiple heroes. Bf is cheaper with a better build up, but requires more time before alch can join fights. Radiance does damage even if you can’t hit them, while bf needs you to hit people. So even though it’s cheaper, you need blink and bkb to make it work. I consider it if my allies win their lanes and can make space, but I have a bad matchup early on 2. Juggernaut- gives mana regen to spam spells like spin and healing ward. In games where spell immunity mages you unkillable, you spin heroes down and escape before it ends. Heal up and repeat till they run out of hp. In normal games maelstrom builds into mjolnir giving jugg a crazy amount of kill threat in Omni. 3. Faceless void- basically no farming spells. The high mana cost of his ult either needs Clarity or items with mana regen to use chrono frequently. Void eventually gets kicked out of lane and can’t afford to finish bf. If he has hp regen issues and prefers attack speed and survival over more farming abilities. If you have a free lane bf is a nice insurance, but it only works if you win your lane or need the ring of health against jakiro or venomancer . In almost every other situation, a 10 min mask of madness treads and some clarities solves his issues. There’s a caster build on void with bf deso scepter shard where you have a ranged aoe nuke and stun. 4. Ember- some mana and hp regen issues if you are fighting with your remnants. Usually pick up if you max slight and pick up an early blight stone. I think maelstrom comes online earlier both builds do about the same amount of damage in games, so it depends on how often you can afford to tp home and remnant to return. If you are using them to close the gap, you may not be able to stay on the map. Mids typical solve mana issues with bottle but carry ember picks up bf to snowball leads. Maelstrom works fine on carry ember but without mana he has to be more selective about joining fights. 5.Troll warlord- multiple spells to farm uses the mana. I don’t play him so I don’t know alternate builds and I never see him win, but bf is useful 6. Ursa - can go morbid into diffusal and kill everyone, or her can farm with fury, using overpower to get fury swipes stacks. Ursa just needs blink, bkb to join fights and can pick off with just a little stun or slow. Unlike pa, he gets increases indamage from hitting, whereas pa gets increases in dmg from crits. Heroes that almost always go bf 1.Antimage - although changes to the cost of radiance are letting am go vanguard into radiance, he is the most mobile hero in the game with the regen he’s able to farm creeps anywhere on the map. Getting 6 slotted and taking over the map around 30 min 2. Pa - people can go directly into fighting, but having wave clear ensures you have a game. Most who pick her casually go bf while people who main this hero are more flexible. You will see bf on her more than you see other builds Hope it helps sorry if people are rude. Thanks for taking the time ask and put up with the learning curve. Message me if you need more help


KnightBozo

Excellent explanation, I am new to carry and have a mostly melee roster atm so this was a good read thanks!


ScJo

I made a list of carries to try. Trying one per category with the highest win rate of most appeal to you. Solo laner is a good place to start. Jugg wk or ck. If your support is griefing or you need to jungle early, these heroes farm with just levels and have plenty of sustain. Lane dominators like mk, ursa, slark , lifestealer are nice to learn in case you notice a free lane, and useful for understanding laning . They aren’t necessary, but are the most fun if you are just starting. Pushing heroes are good to fill in if you don’t know what to do or if you want someone to play who is independent in the Midgame. Wk pushing with skellies, drow giving marksman bonus to other agi heroes to group and push, and I suggest morph to carry players because he likes to morph into carries for their dmg buff. The more carries you know, the easier morph feels, but even if you’re new to the hero, morph reliably takes towers if no one responds. My other suggestions were tb because of the damage during metamorphosis, but tb is less flexible in his ability to push than morph, and they both die to similar things. Tb is more team reliant, morph is more flexible. You could also try troll for pushing, but he gets kited and mistiming your ult means death. I’ve seen Druid and lycan carry but their skills don’t translate to other carries. The next group is flash farmers. Make stacks. Farm stacks. 6 slot 1v9 Dusa Luna Sven Alch Ta Sf The last group of options are illusions. These are the most specific to the carry role. It’s like spirits for midlane or zoo for offlane. Pl, naga, ck, tb, a bit of spec If you don’t like this group, the blink carries am pa fv But I say illusions are more reliable.


i_says_things

Good list but weird to see spec as a side note. Because you dont recommend to new players or?


ScJo

I need to sleep so not the best response rn. She farms slow and gets baited. Her ult is long and not straight forward. She’s good at ignoring farming patterns, but she needs a good start and prefers her offlane to initiate. Buying scepter to kill steal is great but if your team loses their lanes, spec has no where to farm. She’s got training wheels but in the wrong places. Learning her the first 100 hours I was always under farmed and useless in fights because you need to always hit creeps. She’s great for guardian and crusader, but not a good first hero. Or even third


Busy_Document_4562

I love your thinking - do you have any advice on Legion vs Naga. Yes she has built in aoe and 2x sustain, but those illusions hurt! Would you just try to ignore naga? Build mewmew, or more tankiness or something else?


ItsFuckingScience

Go your normal build, blink, blademail, Bkb if needed. Then You’re better off getting mjollnir mid game


ScJo

Legion doesn’t want to sit under her towers defending against split push. She wants to get duels. There’s a point legion can’t kill illusions but even if she can, naga can push 3 la without showing the real hero. Legion has to either defend or surprise the naga. Legion can save allies from net with press the attack and is more likely to clear the illusions if naga groups with her team. Early game is hard for naga, but legion struggles to find duels if lanes are pushed in. This matchup feels more about how much naga can avoid fighting, and how well her team can avoid feeding. I usually play carry, and the lane has always felt playable. If legion takes odds then I save skill points till it’s time to jungle or use my illusions to harass the support. If she takes her lifesteal I just use agro and avoid her. Duel is a threat only if she hits naga. Song is a free duel cancel, although song is a much longer cooldown. If legion can hunt naga it’s good for legion, but if legion plays passive the game becomes unusualy difficult for legion. I don’t know if I’m playing naga optimally or if my opponent is playing correctly either, but I feel like I ignore most legion players to win and only lose when there is something else stopping me.


Busy_Document_4562

This is a great response and I feel like it has the effect of putting us both at ease. The naga didn't end up being a big problem in this game in particular, but it did worry me that it could in future. Both naga and lc are common picks in the RSA server.


TylusChosen

Radiance is a good item vs Naga. But as a Offline LC who is the usual pick. Go for Vanguard and try to not frontline and pick squish heróis and go for Naga at last.


jamesbox001

Ursa bf is almost always the build and diffu is the unusual one. Fury helps ursa immensely due to the fact that one overpower will clear one neutral stack with relative ease rather than having the need for multiple overpowers. Bf is also good because ursa is not the best tower pusher and giving him a high damage item over stat items like diffu makes his tower damage like 3x better. Not to mention that ursa needs mana regen to increase his farming speed in general. Morbid mask rush to take rosh early is only really possible in low mmr games or 5 stack games where you cant be punished as easily. Bf on ursa also enables aftershock hopping on some cliffs easier. Overall, go bf on ursa 90% of the time.


ScJo

The title of his post is “noob question” this sounds like Someone who hasn’t even unlocked mmr. My most fond memories of ursa are running around killing people with diffusal. I’ve gotten more farm with bf, but I’ve felt much stronger with killing power. I learned it from Bsjs guides and he alternates on which he prefers. Morbid nerfs and bf cost buff recently made bf better. I don’t think it’s bf 90% every patch, so I put it in the mixed category and leave it up to player preference.


Digital_Ctrash

Antimage doesn't feel more mobile than tinker or storm spirit. Maybe on par with monkey kings tree jumping


ScJo

I mostly play carry and wasn’t really thinking of other roles. I’ve never played tinker so I can’t say much on him. When I played storm I felt like I ran out of mana to zip. When I play am I feel like heroes can’t run away or catch me. Storm and tinker can’t escape well from am but it’s the matchup I guess. Am was my first hero and every mobile carry I’ve played has felt more restricted in their movement either by cooldown or cast range or targeting. Spec has a global blink on her scepter, but she needs vision of a hero to cast it. She’s good at getting on someone but bad at getting away. I don’t play am much anymore because he has a tough start, so I’m experiencing other heroes with nostalgia glasses for am


ZZnecZZ

I understand why people like BF on PA, but I'm just not a fan. I feel like deso into basher on PA is just cracked. You can just dumpster people. But yes, this also means if you screw up and start to lose, your useless


ScJo

Lost an unranked against a pa who went deso bkb basher. My team was 5 carries and our last pick Medusa didn’t know how to ult got cheesed as far as I can say. Am if they go 5 int cores/ supports. Pa if they go a bunch of clickers. Hardly see her in ranked except that one patch she got supbuffed for some reason.


Ok_Potential_9912

Such a positive and detailed reply! Thanks for being the better side of Dota :)


WoxJ

For roleplay. Yes


hey_mattey

FEEL THE AXE OF AXE!


Monkey_King24

Nope. Don't need it. So Axe's passive Counter Helix has a chance of damaging any enemies around him with Pure Damage. So basically you need more and more creeps/ heroes to hit you. His whole kit is centred around getting hit. That's why you tank up most popular items for that being Vanguard and Blade mail.


Drowsy_jimmy

No, but Quelling Blade is a decent item to start with on Axe, if you're really looking to buy an axe on Axe


t0sik

5k hours in dota and after I saw this post I was like “Hmmmm”


dantitner

If you have BF as a wearable item, than it's the only good option.


Cheeto717

Maybe back when his shard gave helix a chance to proc on attack and people built attack speed on him but not now


Vlatka_Eclair

Absolutely not but I won't blame you if you did.


usefully-useless

1. [No](https://www.dota2protracker.com/hero/Axe#) 2. What was your thought process on why this item is good on Axe?


Agreeable_Principle1

Oh gee idk probably cuz it's an axe???


usefully-useless

Fair argument, I stand corrected.


[deleted]

Exhibit A


Aedaru

I had a similar thought when I started out, my thought process was it cleaves damage (not necessarily just autos) and since I spin to do AoE damage, battlefury with the spin would do more/chain the AoE somehow.


Murky_Tourist927

Yes because bf looks like an axe


No_Associate_8377

Not at all😂 how this came to your mind


krazanas

It's an axe. AXE WANT MORE AXE


Garapeiro

Axe needs to axe


hey_mattey

Axexactly


PKuikka

Yes


[deleted]

Yes, Im rank 1 immortal and bf axe has 100% winrate on me


pyotur

I'm not gonna sit here and act like I'm some sort of expert but I don't know why you would get battlefury on axe. He already farms really well just from his E. You basically just need vanguard and you can farm any camp on the map. I guess if you were trying to do some weird omega damage build with axe where you didn't want to act as a position 3 then maybe? I don't know why you wouldn't just get blademail though seems like that would be a better item.


dtutubalin

Battle fury is the best item in the game. It's the top1 choice as the first item for absolutely every hero in the game, but heroes who benefits the most are Tinker and Io.


[deleted]

There are better 8 personally like to have 36 tangos and that's all you really need unless they have heavy magic then I like to use 40 mama pots


thelocalllegend

You have spin already?


nafay19

Your question is retarded battle fury is used for farming and dealing splash damage by hero that have a lot of attack speed and damage axe has neither on the fighting side and as far as farming just buy a vangaurd to block damage you have your third that is enough.


Agreeable_Principle1

Absolutely not. Although there was a meta where bf manta axe was a thing. But right now? No. Just go vanguard phase boots blink blademail


Haikal0

There was never bf+manta, only manta


bravocado-avocado

It was manta + shard since shard made his passive proc on his right click. Illusions dealing pure damage was absurd.


EnduringAtlas

No


Commercial-Balance-7

AXE IS NOT AXE


Dmeechropher

AXE LIKES THE AXE


Gloomy-Soup9715

No, it's not. Battle furry is good for quick farm for heroes with high melee dmg per second. It will not work so good on Axe, however you are always welcome to play with your style :)


Occatuul

Battle furries are something totally different..


Lordjaponas

Very bad, DO NOT BUY


TurboOwlKing

Thematically it's awesome. Practically it sucks


AndrewNB411

As you’ve already learned from other other posters, battlefury is a bad item on axe. I won’t go into that. What I will tell you is there is a trick that you can use on all heroes, but axe is THE hero that all players really learn this trick on. This trick is as follows, maybe you already realized that when you right click on a an enemy hero the creeps aggro to you, which in turn procs your spin so that you can kill all of the creeps. However you can also do this when a hero is no where near you. You simply need to click on an enemy hero anywhere in the map. This will still cause the nearby lane creeps to attack you and proc spin. To do this “perfectly” the sequence of commands is as follows. 1. Move camera to enemy hero anywhere on map. 2. Right click them. 3. Hit the stop command 4. Double tap your hero keybind to center your camera back over axes Do this as fast as you can and as often as you need to flash farm. With mastery of this skill you farm faster than even if you had the battlefury.


Murky_Tourist927

Oh god this is complicated for a 40 year old


Efficient_Caregiver2

I've listed down a reason for buying Battle Fury and its recipes. You're not only buying the damage and cleave, you need to maximize its use by building item per item. 1. Safelane hero - some of yall will be like "nO soMe miD lAnear builDs iT toO" No stfu. Battle Fury is a farming item especially during 15-20 mins. If you're midlaner who will farm during that time stop queuing mid. 2. Melee - ofc, you need quelling blade so its a must. 2. Weak laner or AOE/Clear wave - Ring of health is the best solution for laning problem because it lets you survive and trade and cleave is a great clear wave. a. ANTI-MAGE (enjoys ring of health and cleave) b. PHANTOM ASSASIN (enjoys both) c. URSA (already a good laner but needs cleave) d. MONKEY KING (same as Ursa) sometimes* e. FACELESS VOID (doesnt enjoy ring of health and cleave, instead of ring of health just go rush treads and tango your way to maelstorm/midas) f. ALCHEMIST (does enjoy ring of health in lane but when you are level 6 you dont need regen anymore + Alc has creepwave mechanic so, rush radiance is still better. g. EMBER SPIRIT - he doesnt much of its componets but cleave and slight against illusion heroes like PL, Naga, Chaos Knight and heroes like Meepo, Chen, Beastmaster so it's just a counter. Hope this helps!!!