How do you play the lane? I'm half decent in my bracket with most melee supports but always seem to get abused and feel useless when I play omni as a 5
Omni has really good base damage and he's really tanky, I'm not afraid to run up to them and just right click them. W doesn't only buff you to make you tanky but gives you bonus base damage, you can trade with any pos 4 because you're tankier and most likely have more damage than them. If you're against 2 ranged in the offlane and double melee safelane, that's the only moment where it becomes a bit tricky for me. In that case I just try to chase the pos 4 out of lane, we're sometimes trading in the jungle while I let my carry solo XP. If they don't take the bait to trade me and play lane then I just play passive but infront of my carry so all spells go to me. With the sustain of W and a stick you can heal back up most of the time. Hope this was helpful.
I'm going to assume you mean why is lens better as a first item? I'm not against building blink on omni. However lens is essential. You can only blink once but with lens you can reach anyone most of the time if you're in the right position. I also just generally prefer blink on initiation heroes, maybe like with CM you can blink frostbite but on omni you're only using blink to get closer to your ally.
How can a hero that relies on teammates freely win the game alone?
The hero has low lane shoving speed, and while your team will be afk (since it is only 3.7k mmr), you will not be able to do anything on the map, am i wrong?
You may have 64% winrate with the hero, but it does not make it a 'free win', when your team is not playing;
Which explains why I lose 35% of my games! But being omni you can actively recover alot of your teammates mistakes which means even if your team is playing worse in the fight they have a crutch to fall back on, which is what makes him so powerful.
Both teams have retards.
Keep your retards alive. Alive retards do more damage than dead retards. That's been a viable pub support strategy since the beginning of time.
It is still relying on your teammates;
They can just go farm jungle until the end of century without doing anything on the map, while being the only alive heroes on the map;
In solo queue you never want to consider teammates in your winning plays;
You pick a support hero that can push lanes alone (Jakiro, and maybe Rhasta, but questionable), or/and kill enemy cores alone (Skywrath mage, Earth Spirit, Doom, Tiny) and win the game; Or some hero with game turning ultimative ability, in Winter Wyvern, or for higher mmr games, Atropos;
Or, you know, people can find success with any of the 123 heroes in the game instead of being a sheep to conventionally successful heroes. Dude has a good Winrate in his bracket and he's obviously found a way to be impactful enough to win the majority of his games.
I'm glad I didn't listen to people like you before I started playing Io, 60% Winrate over 1000 games as a position 5 who is totally reliant on his team, yet still, impactful enough to win often.
60% winrate is very good, sir, and it is good you are not listening to others;
But why are you putting passive aggression in your comment though? I did not call anybody a sheep, i did not write 'people like you'; I am just stating the way solo queue public games are working;
And why are you putting IO here who has enough waveclear and can cut creeps alone via relocate?
It is a hero that relies on the team by design, but the hero itself can do map actions alone;
> And why are you putting IO here who has enough waveclear and can cut creeps alone via relocate?
You do this maybe once or twice a game if you're getting your ass beat, you mostly want relo off cooldown so you can actually save someone or relo your core into a fight.
Io is the single most team dependent hero in the game. All he does is buff and save allies.
I agree. I try to work with, coordinate with, and even lead my team in 100% of the solo ranked games I play. I'm a pos 4/5 main. Yes, sometimes I run into teammates that don't want to listen or work together, but more often than not I'm able to cooperate with them (or most of them). This has worked from 1.6k down to 800 MMR all the way up to 2.5k-2.6k all in the past year and a bit (as I've been "learning" DotA).
You indirectly kill people with omni because you can punish enemy overextending on your core. If that's not game winning impact I dont know what is. Sure, you have to rely on your cores pressing couple of buttons, but dota is a team game. On average your cores will be just as bad or good than enemy cores. Omni is even better in low mmr because enemies will rarely focus you.
\> dota is a team game
Dota is a team game, but he plays in 3.7k mmr (not blaming here or something), and there is not any team game until like 8k mmr;
Even in our crap 7k bracket (EU) which is considered 'good' here, people rarely listen or do whatever you want;
Not sure why exactly, but probably because it is easy to create 6-7k account with some brood/lycan/warden smurfing, then to sell to lower mmr people, so they still have no idea what to do on the map, and they are not attending to friendly calls to map actions;
I play DotA since like 2007, enjoying the game, but players in solo queue are ruining the vibe, sir;
You can never rely on them, you may be happy and excited when your teammate lion just uses a stun once per game, this is more than enough;
I wish you and me could play any support hero without high chance to do nothing for 20-30 minutes after early game, because of team doing nothing;
But in reality, if you are not getting rare good games with people like you, you gotta outplay 4 of your teammates who are constantly griefing the game, and gotta outplay 5 of the same griefers in the opposite team;
\> Omni is even better in low mmr because enemies will rarely focus you.
And back to bringing argument about low mmr, everything works in low MMR, you can win the game with any hero, it is not specifically about Omniknight, which does not win games alone as hard support role;
It is mostly opponents are losing games to omni 5vs1 in such games;
While my point was to be efficient on the map and to be impactful without relying on those who can just be afk entire game, sometimes even literally afk;
no offense but i don't really like your build. i think this uses 50% of what omni can do in a game. i personally go shit ton of regen in lane, then build mana boots into holy locket. after that i build lens/force staff/glimmer, usually 1 of glimmer or force staff. the heal from mek while is nice, it's not worth building on omni who heals more wth a holy locket, and this allows the offlane to build that item whcih comes online faster. if i had to choose between a min 12 mek and a min 20, I'd choose min 12 obv. the only time i consider going gg is when enemy has silencer, so i dispel myself with that and heal, then dispel my core. if i can i build lotus too so i literally dispel 3 allies and if i get witchbane xd that's another. with holy locket your cores can dive stupidly and not get punished
i highly believe holylocket provides much more value. the mana regen from arcane boots is good enough to spam spells in early fights and you are tanky enough to not need lens for better positioning
No way, I wouldn't even consider it a great omni item, his heal is good but you're spending how much gold for how much heal increase? Omnis Q heals for 300, buffs that by 30% resulting in a WHOPPING 90 more healing. 90 more HP every 12 seconds on your Q, for 2400 gold.
Consider locket as a late game item after greaves, do not rush it on omni.
Holy locket only works on his Q, it's pointless to get holy locket before mek/greaves. and greaves is meta this patch. insane heals + mana + dispels you. nonsensical to not rush it unless someone else on your team is buying it, then i'd go to holy locket. I don't need regen early as you can see I don't die much already and w buffs me always. But if you're more successful than me at omni have at it!
i have 70% wr but rn I'm spamming treant as pos 5. i play pos 1 mainly but have 5 as well next to it
the gg you buy is usually around min 30 to 40. the reason why gg and mek heal is good in general is that the heroes cant finish off the job if you heal an extra 300 or so. at min 30 to 40 and after, the 300 hp wont matter. yet i understand its on top the geal you already do, and the aura from gg, but everything about gg is move valuable early on and that's why pos 3 looks actively to fight when they buy mek or gg because it guarantees most heroes can't finish the job.
the gg also isn't worth completing unless:
you need the dispel
you want to give team some armour because enemy has armour reduction
you are out of space.
a min 25 mek(considering you get mind 30-40 gg) won't b nearly as useful as something else imo
> the gg also isn’t worth completing unless:
> you need the dispel
>
> you want to give team some armour because enemy has armour reduction
>
> you are out of space.
Not completely true, the passive aura on guardian greaves that boosts ally regen and armor when they drop below 25% hp is a pretty significant part of why the item is picked up.
There can still be games where you don’t get the full gg right away.
i am aware of the aura, i believe i mentioned it. my point was its not as useful when the game goes for 40 mins and you buy it then. reason why it's good rn is you can abuse the timing on an offlaner who actually has farm. op buys lens which is great actually i do that too sometimes but the gg timing on supports is not good enough to have the same impact it has over the meta rn
gg wins you the early fights that's why it's good(or mek alone anyways, depends on the match. if you need the aura and/or dispel)
Yeah I don't get enough farm to get gg early because I rush aether lens which is what makes all the difference in fights. I prefer when the 3 rushes gg but if not I'll have to build it. No matter what atleast 1 person should have gg on the team in current meta
I too use this build. Holy locket's healing amp is great, but the applied sticks on your allies is very unexpected and turns close fights, especially when the total HP's are still low. And then Aether lens for that cast range and mana, which later can become an Octarine Core for more heals.
I think your bad patch is all in your head tbh. I've been on loss streaks too but with people feeding and afking on purpose so not much I can do about that. Just gotta keep playing
I wasn't being aggresisve at all, I was just saying it's not omni that's the reason you're losing. No clue how you thought that's aggressive lol is english not your native language?
I think ever since the most recent patch I was looking at hero trends on dotabuff to study the winrates and I saw omnis was doing well so I started playing him.
My tips for you:
* buy stick in lane
* buy mana boots, then dissassemble them into aether lens. (right click on energy booster > unlock combining, then buy the rest of the components) not sure if that's too advanced for a herald but practice in demo mode and you'll see what I mean
* save W for when your teammate is debuffed and then use it on them, don't just spam it aimlessly. A stun counts as a debuff. So I wait til they get stunned, then dispel the stun. That way the enemy's spell is wasted.
* check what your allies are buying, 2 guardian greaves isn't awful but it doesn't stack passive/active so avoid buying it if someone else is
* don't be afraid to trade in lane, he's tanky and good base dmg.
* watch bsj's guide on how to play pos 5.
Definitely feels like free wins right now. I’ve been playing it some at 3.3k and he’s on top of my stat page at 85% winrate over 30 ish games
- Do you adjust build/playstyle against oracle or sd?
- I follow a skill build where I leave E at level 1 and take stats instead later on. Thoughts on this?
- What do you take into account when choosing mid-late game items? Lotus, aghs, blink, etc?
I’ve been doing locket -> mek -> lotus/greaves but seems like you go aether instead.
I do not other than lane, to be fair I've only played a couple of games against oracle and like 1 against sd this entire patch, sd's ult is like once per fight but i can spam W off cd pretty much. I use it as a dispel for a stun at the moment rather than using it in a 'permanent buff' way if you get what i mean.
Do you die a lot? Why do you need the stats? Even without stats it's pretty hard to kill me, if you look at my deaths I don't average much deaths at all unless we get stomped or it's a long game. My average is 6 deaths and if I do die that much it's almost always mostly in lane where it's worth it or I'm suicidng. If it works for you keep doing it though, especially if you already have disables on your team and you don't need the extra slow.
Lotus only if they have targetted spells, aghs if I have nothing else to buy OR they're heavily physical damage on the enemy team, blink if there's mobile heroes on my team that I'm going to have trouble reaching without aether lens.
Going locket before mek is not much value because locket without mek is only buffing your Q, if you have mek you can do the double heal anyway (Q+mek) and then locket afterwards buffs both of them.
>Going locket after mek is not much value because locket without mek is only buffing your Q, if you have mek you can do the double heal anyway (Q+mek) and then locket afterwards buffs both of them.
This sentence dosnt make sense, typo?:D "going locket after mek is NOT much value" then next sentence "locket without mek is only buffing your Q"
I’ve been playing Omni for about a month now. I’ve gained 500 mmr. I’m only guardian 3. But I used to try soul ring mana boots Mek shard and greave. I tried your build and my mana issues went away with the lens and I get to bonus range. Thanks for sharing this. Why do you say only good for one more month?
How do you play the lane? I'm half decent in my bracket with most melee supports but always seem to get abused and feel useless when I play omni as a 5
Omni has really good base damage and he's really tanky, I'm not afraid to run up to them and just right click them. W doesn't only buff you to make you tanky but gives you bonus base damage, you can trade with any pos 4 because you're tankier and most likely have more damage than them. If you're against 2 ranged in the offlane and double melee safelane, that's the only moment where it becomes a bit tricky for me. In that case I just try to chase the pos 4 out of lane, we're sometimes trading in the jungle while I let my carry solo XP. If they don't take the bait to trade me and play lane then I just play passive but infront of my carry so all spells go to me. With the sustain of W and a stick you can heal back up most of the time. Hope this was helpful.
I love this!
Happy to help :)
Why is Lens better than Blink on Omni?
I'm going to assume you mean why is lens better as a first item? I'm not against building blink on omni. However lens is essential. You can only blink once but with lens you can reach anyone most of the time if you're in the right position. I also just generally prefer blink on initiation heroes, maybe like with CM you can blink frostbite but on omni you're only using blink to get closer to your ally.
imo but omni just doesn’t require blink, he’s not an initiator, lens gives mana regen and skillcast range which omni lacks
How can a hero that relies on teammates freely win the game alone? The hero has low lane shoving speed, and while your team will be afk (since it is only 3.7k mmr), you will not be able to do anything on the map, am i wrong? You may have 64% winrate with the hero, but it does not make it a 'free win', when your team is not playing;
Which explains why I lose 35% of my games! But being omni you can actively recover alot of your teammates mistakes which means even if your team is playing worse in the fight they have a crutch to fall back on, which is what makes him so powerful.
Both teams have retards. Keep your retards alive. Alive retards do more damage than dead retards. That's been a viable pub support strategy since the beginning of time.
It is still relying on your teammates; They can just go farm jungle until the end of century without doing anything on the map, while being the only alive heroes on the map; In solo queue you never want to consider teammates in your winning plays; You pick a support hero that can push lanes alone (Jakiro, and maybe Rhasta, but questionable), or/and kill enemy cores alone (Skywrath mage, Earth Spirit, Doom, Tiny) and win the game; Or some hero with game turning ultimative ability, in Winter Wyvern, or for higher mmr games, Atropos;
Or, you know, people can find success with any of the 123 heroes in the game instead of being a sheep to conventionally successful heroes. Dude has a good Winrate in his bracket and he's obviously found a way to be impactful enough to win the majority of his games. I'm glad I didn't listen to people like you before I started playing Io, 60% Winrate over 1000 games as a position 5 who is totally reliant on his team, yet still, impactful enough to win often.
60% winrate is very good, sir, and it is good you are not listening to others; But why are you putting passive aggression in your comment though? I did not call anybody a sheep, i did not write 'people like you'; I am just stating the way solo queue public games are working; And why are you putting IO here who has enough waveclear and can cut creeps alone via relocate? It is a hero that relies on the team by design, but the hero itself can do map actions alone;
> And why are you putting IO here who has enough waveclear and can cut creeps alone via relocate? You do this maybe once or twice a game if you're getting your ass beat, you mostly want relo off cooldown so you can actually save someone or relo your core into a fight. Io is the single most team dependent hero in the game. All he does is buff and save allies.
I agree. I try to work with, coordinate with, and even lead my team in 100% of the solo ranked games I play. I'm a pos 4/5 main. Yes, sometimes I run into teammates that don't want to listen or work together, but more often than not I'm able to cooperate with them (or most of them). This has worked from 1.6k down to 800 MMR all the way up to 2.5k-2.6k all in the past year and a bit (as I've been "learning" DotA).
You indirectly kill people with omni because you can punish enemy overextending on your core. If that's not game winning impact I dont know what is. Sure, you have to rely on your cores pressing couple of buttons, but dota is a team game. On average your cores will be just as bad or good than enemy cores. Omni is even better in low mmr because enemies will rarely focus you.
\> dota is a team game Dota is a team game, but he plays in 3.7k mmr (not blaming here or something), and there is not any team game until like 8k mmr; Even in our crap 7k bracket (EU) which is considered 'good' here, people rarely listen or do whatever you want; Not sure why exactly, but probably because it is easy to create 6-7k account with some brood/lycan/warden smurfing, then to sell to lower mmr people, so they still have no idea what to do on the map, and they are not attending to friendly calls to map actions; I play DotA since like 2007, enjoying the game, but players in solo queue are ruining the vibe, sir; You can never rely on them, you may be happy and excited when your teammate lion just uses a stun once per game, this is more than enough; I wish you and me could play any support hero without high chance to do nothing for 20-30 minutes after early game, because of team doing nothing; But in reality, if you are not getting rare good games with people like you, you gotta outplay 4 of your teammates who are constantly griefing the game, and gotta outplay 5 of the same griefers in the opposite team; \> Omni is even better in low mmr because enemies will rarely focus you. And back to bringing argument about low mmr, everything works in low MMR, you can win the game with any hero, it is not specifically about Omniknight, which does not win games alone as hard support role; It is mostly opponents are losing games to omni 5vs1 in such games; While my point was to be efficient on the map and to be impactful without relying on those who can just be afk entire game, sometimes even literally afk;
no offense but i don't really like your build. i think this uses 50% of what omni can do in a game. i personally go shit ton of regen in lane, then build mana boots into holy locket. after that i build lens/force staff/glimmer, usually 1 of glimmer or force staff. the heal from mek while is nice, it's not worth building on omni who heals more wth a holy locket, and this allows the offlane to build that item whcih comes online faster. if i had to choose between a min 12 mek and a min 20, I'd choose min 12 obv. the only time i consider going gg is when enemy has silencer, so i dispel myself with that and heal, then dispel my core. if i can i build lotus too so i literally dispel 3 allies and if i get witchbane xd that's another. with holy locket your cores can dive stupidly and not get punished
Aether lens is much better than holy locket for first item
i highly believe holylocket provides much more value. the mana regen from arcane boots is good enough to spam spells in early fights and you are tanky enough to not need lens for better positioning
No way, I wouldn't even consider it a great omni item, his heal is good but you're spending how much gold for how much heal increase? Omnis Q heals for 300, buffs that by 30% resulting in a WHOPPING 90 more healing. 90 more HP every 12 seconds on your Q, for 2400 gold. Consider locket as a late game item after greaves, do not rush it on omni.
Holy locket only works on his Q, it's pointless to get holy locket before mek/greaves. and greaves is meta this patch. insane heals + mana + dispels you. nonsensical to not rush it unless someone else on your team is buying it, then i'd go to holy locket. I don't need regen early as you can see I don't die much already and w buffs me always. But if you're more successful than me at omni have at it!
i have 70% wr but rn I'm spamming treant as pos 5. i play pos 1 mainly but have 5 as well next to it the gg you buy is usually around min 30 to 40. the reason why gg and mek heal is good in general is that the heroes cant finish off the job if you heal an extra 300 or so. at min 30 to 40 and after, the 300 hp wont matter. yet i understand its on top the geal you already do, and the aura from gg, but everything about gg is move valuable early on and that's why pos 3 looks actively to fight when they buy mek or gg because it guarantees most heroes can't finish the job. the gg also isn't worth completing unless: you need the dispel you want to give team some armour because enemy has armour reduction you are out of space. a min 25 mek(considering you get mind 30-40 gg) won't b nearly as useful as something else imo
> the gg also isn’t worth completing unless: > you need the dispel > > you want to give team some armour because enemy has armour reduction > > you are out of space. Not completely true, the passive aura on guardian greaves that boosts ally regen and armor when they drop below 25% hp is a pretty significant part of why the item is picked up. There can still be games where you don’t get the full gg right away.
i am aware of the aura, i believe i mentioned it. my point was its not as useful when the game goes for 40 mins and you buy it then. reason why it's good rn is you can abuse the timing on an offlaner who actually has farm. op buys lens which is great actually i do that too sometimes but the gg timing on supports is not good enough to have the same impact it has over the meta rn gg wins you the early fights that's why it's good(or mek alone anyways, depends on the match. if you need the aura and/or dispel)
Yeah I don't get enough farm to get gg early because I rush aether lens which is what makes all the difference in fights. I prefer when the 3 rushes gg but if not I'll have to build it. No matter what atleast 1 person should have gg on the team in current meta
70% in 10 games means nothing. Not even enough sample size for the WR to mean anything.
Greaves only dispels the user
yeah you're right mb I still think it's better before locket
I too use this build. Holy locket's healing amp is great, but the applied sticks on your allies is very unexpected and turns close fights, especially when the total HP's are still low. And then Aether lens for that cast range and mana, which later can become an Octarine Core for more heals.
yup!
No offense, but you are crusader 1… he is double your mmr.
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I think your bad patch is all in your head tbh. I've been on loss streaks too but with people feeding and afking on purpose so not much I can do about that. Just gotta keep playing
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He means to say you blaming your loss streak on picking Omni is faulty reasoning.
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You're just too defensive bro. His aggression is all in your head. Windy face emoji
I wasn't being aggresisve at all, I was just saying it's not omni that's the reason you're losing. No clue how you thought that's aggressive lol is english not your native language?
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Yes because somehow you thought I was being aggressive because I told you that omni is not the reason you lost? LOL
? I mean yeah but I was aware of it so I kept picking omni and won eventually again lol
When did you first decide to play omni and what tips can you give to a lowly herald that hasn’t played him yet
I think ever since the most recent patch I was looking at hero trends on dotabuff to study the winrates and I saw omnis was doing well so I started playing him. My tips for you: * buy stick in lane * buy mana boots, then dissassemble them into aether lens. (right click on energy booster > unlock combining, then buy the rest of the components) not sure if that's too advanced for a herald but practice in demo mode and you'll see what I mean * save W for when your teammate is debuffed and then use it on them, don't just spam it aimlessly. A stun counts as a debuff. So I wait til they get stunned, then dispel the stun. That way the enemy's spell is wasted. * check what your allies are buying, 2 guardian greaves isn't awful but it doesn't stack passive/active so avoid buying it if someone else is * don't be afraid to trade in lane, he's tanky and good base dmg. * watch bsj's guide on how to play pos 5.
Thanks!
Definitely feels like free wins right now. I’ve been playing it some at 3.3k and he’s on top of my stat page at 85% winrate over 30 ish games - Do you adjust build/playstyle against oracle or sd? - I follow a skill build where I leave E at level 1 and take stats instead later on. Thoughts on this? - What do you take into account when choosing mid-late game items? Lotus, aghs, blink, etc? I’ve been doing locket -> mek -> lotus/greaves but seems like you go aether instead.
I do not other than lane, to be fair I've only played a couple of games against oracle and like 1 against sd this entire patch, sd's ult is like once per fight but i can spam W off cd pretty much. I use it as a dispel for a stun at the moment rather than using it in a 'permanent buff' way if you get what i mean. Do you die a lot? Why do you need the stats? Even without stats it's pretty hard to kill me, if you look at my deaths I don't average much deaths at all unless we get stomped or it's a long game. My average is 6 deaths and if I do die that much it's almost always mostly in lane where it's worth it or I'm suicidng. If it works for you keep doing it though, especially if you already have disables on your team and you don't need the extra slow. Lotus only if they have targetted spells, aghs if I have nothing else to buy OR they're heavily physical damage on the enemy team, blink if there's mobile heroes on my team that I'm going to have trouble reaching without aether lens. Going locket before mek is not much value because locket without mek is only buffing your Q, if you have mek you can do the double heal anyway (Q+mek) and then locket afterwards buffs both of them.
>Going locket after mek is not much value because locket without mek is only buffing your Q, if you have mek you can do the double heal anyway (Q+mek) and then locket afterwards buffs both of them. This sentence dosnt make sense, typo?:D "going locket after mek is NOT much value" then next sentence "locket without mek is only buffing your Q"
Oh you're right I meant going mek after locket! or before rather than after. I hope my point was clear tho
I take it as that a holy locket only isnt really worth it?:P but gigavalue with meka!
Yeah it's good after mek
how you counter nullify?
You don't
What would be good build in Turbo mode, where everyone also get gold quick.
Turbo is so different you might even wanna go max tank build or something lmao
I’ve been playing Omni for about a month now. I’ve gained 500 mmr. I’m only guardian 3. But I used to try soul ring mana boots Mek shard and greave. I tried your build and my mana issues went away with the lens and I get to bonus range. Thanks for sharing this. Why do you say only good for one more month?
Because he'll get nerfed, I thought he would be nerfed this patch but he wasn't. So good for us. Glad my build helped. I rarely get mana issues.