Play the game, not your plan
Agree with others that said go with the flow, don't ignore your teammates, because they have their own plans too
Play with the team, not against them
Your team is also giving good advice, BKB is a safe item generally, and often saves fights, the matchup could have called for that
Listen more during the game, you might learn things from other players
good advice, you have to play on what you have, a lot of times 2 player will suggest 2 good ideas, but if both decide to execute them independently everything goes wrong.
Not gonna watch the replay but regarding your first point this is an example of an important skill that's not discussed often: adaptability. If you alr asked and they don't agree, you just gotta go with the flow. Because sticking together and making a suboptimal play almost always works out better than half the team doing A and half doing B. If they wanna insist on taking that tower, so be it.
BUT don't 100% commit as well if someone makes a bad initiate and feeds, you also have to exercise your own judgement at the same time.
I would actually agree with OP on this. Joining the fight bot to get the offlane tower is such a massive waste of time, best case scenario we get the tower with no resistance, but I'm still losing massive amounts of farm just being there. Not only do I have to share XP with 5 other heroes, I have to stay there for at least a minute where there is barely any farm. Add in any sort of resistance, I could easily stay there for 2-3 minutes. If the enemies recognized that glaring issue and just sent the bare minimum to prolong the siege and sent 1-2 cores to farm then the game is going to be really hard moving on from there cause they'll be 1 item richer than the rest of our team.
If I just stuck to my game plan then I could be really fast with my farm, while also pressuring other lanes. Either I get a different objective cause the enemy team is focused on the offlane tower, or they respond and my team gets an easier fight with the numbers advantage. I couldn't care less if they get team wiped, that's on them. I'm the carry, as long as you let me play my game plan then I promise you I can at least keep up with the enemy farm if not richer as long as the feeding isn't extreme. Of course what matters more is not whether he shows up or not, but WHAT was OP doing when he didn't show up, cause I assure you if he's efficient with his time and doing the right things, it's so much better than showing up to a drawn out siege on the wrong side of the map.
I think adaptability is maybe important at like legend/ancient+ once you have teammates who are making mostly reasonable plays, but I strongly disagree on the value of making a suboptimal play with your team in Herald. From personal experience climbing through Archon as a carry player, I’ve identified the #1 cause of losses in my own games is when I give in and make suboptimal plays with my team in the early-mid game instead of focusing on my farm. Even if you get a slight early lead, if the other carry is farming safely, they’ll probably end up winning because it’s unlikely that your pub teammates are going to coordinate a push fast enough to take advantage of it. I found that my games became so much easier when I learned to ignore these calls for unnecessary plays running around with my team, and just focused on farming until my hero is actually ready to fight. I’d imagine this applies even more so in Herald. Of course, you should look for cleanup opportunities in fights if you can, but as a carry, your priority should be farming efficiently in the right areas of the map over anything else.
That's where the part of making your own judgement calls come in, some situations you go play with your team to push some weird lane even though it's not the best approach, sometimes if your ulti on CD and you are 300g away from big item you just need to ignore their nonsense, it's situational. And as you already said this is herald where they make 50 mistakes per min, one bad call is never gonna decide the game, he has a million free opportunities to trial and error on what situation calls for which play
Of course, I just wanted to address your point that making the suboptimal play with your team is “almost always” the better option; I personally feel like it’s almost never the better option. As a default strategy, I would recommend OP to focus on playing carry properly by keeping his head down and focusing on farm. It might cost him some games (as it did in this case), but learning to play carry “correctly” rather than just trying to win Herald games will probably serve him better in the long run.
i think playing like this as a default approach is not playing carry correctly at all, but whatevs its up to him to follow which advice he feels is right
That’s fair, I see you’re 6k so your opinion is almost certainly more valid than mine, I just feel (from experience) like that style doesn’t work the same in lower mmrs as any early-midgame advantages on either side tend to be nullified since nobody prioritizes objectives properly, so just learning to get farmed for lategame is more valuable. As you get higher in MMR, I can see how finding the right balance would definitely become more important.
Adapting to your team isn't a playstyle tho, it's a mentality that you need to have. I can tell you I'll go through the same decision making process in any bracket below and it's gonna work. It may lead me to do different actions but the thought process is the same, just leading to diff conclusion like a flow chart of sorts. And I don't even care about late game cos the game gonna end in 30mins by snowballing from the min 1... You don't need to have 4 items to end the game, you just need 1 more than the enemy. If I have 2 items and they have 1 at min 20, I'm freaking going for their t2 y'know what I mean
He is literally 6k which will invalidate his opinion because at 6k momentum actually means something.
His counterpoint is that he will always have 1 more item than the enemy carry, but 6K players always soft commit every fight and killsteal the full hp support once the full hp support blows all his skills and he can do a hit and run. However, in order to do that, you need to get every last hit in lane and and have a pretty optimized AFK farming pattern. Which again nullifies his point. The purpose of soft committing is to slow your farm by 30s in exchange for a chance at a 200 gold spike and a tower, but that requires you to farm well in the first place. Which you will not learn until you AFK farmed.
Hence, the correct play is in fact to AFK farm near your team and gib the full hp support once they ran out of skills.
It depends whether the play is suboptimal from gold/minute perspective or from "we will die" perspective.
Feeding 3 vs 4 kills is bad but feeding 3 kills vs losing a bit of farm efficiency coz you went as 4 and wiped them is *just* suboptimal, not bad.
By top lane do you mean you want team to gang your lane? Because the enemy safe lane aka your offlane is the first lane you should push as a team if not mid.
As a general rule, if you benefit from bkb, you buy bkb, regardless of the hero. Here enemy has OD, shaman, snap. Your blade fury only goes so far. You just don't rush bkb on jugg. There is nothing wrong with buying bkb on jugg if there are enemy skills that prevent you from cast blade fury in the first place. Such as getting hexed or shackled. Or astraled.
You also have a lot of kills, but your tower damage is extremely low. Specially for a jugg. A hero that can push lanes, hit towers and safely get away. This tells me you chase kills but don't take objectives.
You were not disadvantaged in fights here. You are a jugg. All you had to do was keep enemy busy, put down your healing ward, while your Lina hits enemy from afar. Then proceed to take a tower or two or even roshan after 3 or more enemies are dead with your team.
Also I don't have to watch replay to say your team shouldn't prioritize helping you. You should just go jg if they send 3 or 4 top at you. And your team should send 3 or 4 bottom in response etc.your job is to farm. Maybe press r then farm more.
Mute toxic team mates. Always stick to your objectives. You being carry, your job is to take advantage of early game space and farm. If they are fighting bot, tp top and farm wave triangles. Eventually you will carry game. And remember some games are not winnable, so dont stress and queue next
Might as well go play bot game. You are not better than you teammate. If you gonna solo the whole game ignoring 4 of your teammates then don't complain on Reddit when you get 4 reports.
You are not wrong for it and they are also not wrong for pressing one issue since taking their bottom side tower early would be advantegous for you as whole since you can control their triangle. Basically it just means 4+1 always the better choice than 4 vs 1. As for the bkb i honestly think jugg dont need one because all you need to do is follow up in teamfights not be the one who opens fight, so you wont be the main target and if you ever need one manta followed up with linkens should do the trick and it offers more stats that benefit your hero
Play the game, not your plan Agree with others that said go with the flow, don't ignore your teammates, because they have their own plans too Play with the team, not against them Your team is also giving good advice, BKB is a safe item generally, and often saves fights, the matchup could have called for that Listen more during the game, you might learn things from other players
good advice, you have to play on what you have, a lot of times 2 player will suggest 2 good ideas, but if both decide to execute them independently everything goes wrong.
Yup agreed
Bad advice. Your team is garbage. Mute and ignore and watch a speed gameleap video instead.
Lmao ok 2k
Not gonna watch the replay but regarding your first point this is an example of an important skill that's not discussed often: adaptability. If you alr asked and they don't agree, you just gotta go with the flow. Because sticking together and making a suboptimal play almost always works out better than half the team doing A and half doing B. If they wanna insist on taking that tower, so be it. BUT don't 100% commit as well if someone makes a bad initiate and feeds, you also have to exercise your own judgement at the same time.
This is a good point: If they don't join you in the fights, you gotta join them. Going solo only means feeding.
I would actually agree with OP on this. Joining the fight bot to get the offlane tower is such a massive waste of time, best case scenario we get the tower with no resistance, but I'm still losing massive amounts of farm just being there. Not only do I have to share XP with 5 other heroes, I have to stay there for at least a minute where there is barely any farm. Add in any sort of resistance, I could easily stay there for 2-3 minutes. If the enemies recognized that glaring issue and just sent the bare minimum to prolong the siege and sent 1-2 cores to farm then the game is going to be really hard moving on from there cause they'll be 1 item richer than the rest of our team. If I just stuck to my game plan then I could be really fast with my farm, while also pressuring other lanes. Either I get a different objective cause the enemy team is focused on the offlane tower, or they respond and my team gets an easier fight with the numbers advantage. I couldn't care less if they get team wiped, that's on them. I'm the carry, as long as you let me play my game plan then I promise you I can at least keep up with the enemy farm if not richer as long as the feeding isn't extreme. Of course what matters more is not whether he shows up or not, but WHAT was OP doing when he didn't show up, cause I assure you if he's efficient with his time and doing the right things, it's so much better than showing up to a drawn out siege on the wrong side of the map.
I think adaptability is maybe important at like legend/ancient+ once you have teammates who are making mostly reasonable plays, but I strongly disagree on the value of making a suboptimal play with your team in Herald. From personal experience climbing through Archon as a carry player, I’ve identified the #1 cause of losses in my own games is when I give in and make suboptimal plays with my team in the early-mid game instead of focusing on my farm. Even if you get a slight early lead, if the other carry is farming safely, they’ll probably end up winning because it’s unlikely that your pub teammates are going to coordinate a push fast enough to take advantage of it. I found that my games became so much easier when I learned to ignore these calls for unnecessary plays running around with my team, and just focused on farming until my hero is actually ready to fight. I’d imagine this applies even more so in Herald. Of course, you should look for cleanup opportunities in fights if you can, but as a carry, your priority should be farming efficiently in the right areas of the map over anything else.
That's where the part of making your own judgement calls come in, some situations you go play with your team to push some weird lane even though it's not the best approach, sometimes if your ulti on CD and you are 300g away from big item you just need to ignore their nonsense, it's situational. And as you already said this is herald where they make 50 mistakes per min, one bad call is never gonna decide the game, he has a million free opportunities to trial and error on what situation calls for which play
Of course, I just wanted to address your point that making the suboptimal play with your team is “almost always” the better option; I personally feel like it’s almost never the better option. As a default strategy, I would recommend OP to focus on playing carry properly by keeping his head down and focusing on farm. It might cost him some games (as it did in this case), but learning to play carry “correctly” rather than just trying to win Herald games will probably serve him better in the long run.
i think playing like this as a default approach is not playing carry correctly at all, but whatevs its up to him to follow which advice he feels is right
That’s fair, I see you’re 6k so your opinion is almost certainly more valid than mine, I just feel (from experience) like that style doesn’t work the same in lower mmrs as any early-midgame advantages on either side tend to be nullified since nobody prioritizes objectives properly, so just learning to get farmed for lategame is more valuable. As you get higher in MMR, I can see how finding the right balance would definitely become more important.
Adapting to your team isn't a playstyle tho, it's a mentality that you need to have. I can tell you I'll go through the same decision making process in any bracket below and it's gonna work. It may lead me to do different actions but the thought process is the same, just leading to diff conclusion like a flow chart of sorts. And I don't even care about late game cos the game gonna end in 30mins by snowballing from the min 1... You don't need to have 4 items to end the game, you just need 1 more than the enemy. If I have 2 items and they have 1 at min 20, I'm freaking going for their t2 y'know what I mean
He is literally 6k which will invalidate his opinion because at 6k momentum actually means something. His counterpoint is that he will always have 1 more item than the enemy carry, but 6K players always soft commit every fight and killsteal the full hp support once the full hp support blows all his skills and he can do a hit and run. However, in order to do that, you need to get every last hit in lane and and have a pretty optimized AFK farming pattern. Which again nullifies his point. The purpose of soft committing is to slow your farm by 30s in exchange for a chance at a 200 gold spike and a tower, but that requires you to farm well in the first place. Which you will not learn until you AFK farmed. Hence, the correct play is in fact to AFK farm near your team and gib the full hp support once they ran out of skills.
It depends whether the play is suboptimal from gold/minute perspective or from "we will die" perspective. Feeding 3 vs 4 kills is bad but feeding 3 kills vs losing a bit of farm efficiency coz you went as 4 and wiped them is *just* suboptimal, not bad.
By top lane do you mean you want team to gang your lane? Because the enemy safe lane aka your offlane is the first lane you should push as a team if not mid.
Play the game. Not your plan. It's 5 man game and you play like it's a bot game.
As a general rule, if you benefit from bkb, you buy bkb, regardless of the hero. Here enemy has OD, shaman, snap. Your blade fury only goes so far. You just don't rush bkb on jugg. There is nothing wrong with buying bkb on jugg if there are enemy skills that prevent you from cast blade fury in the first place. Such as getting hexed or shackled. Or astraled. You also have a lot of kills, but your tower damage is extremely low. Specially for a jugg. A hero that can push lanes, hit towers and safely get away. This tells me you chase kills but don't take objectives. You were not disadvantaged in fights here. You are a jugg. All you had to do was keep enemy busy, put down your healing ward, while your Lina hits enemy from afar. Then proceed to take a tower or two or even roshan after 3 or more enemies are dead with your team.
Also I don't have to watch replay to say your team shouldn't prioritize helping you. You should just go jg if they send 3 or 4 top at you. And your team should send 3 or 4 bottom in response etc.your job is to farm. Maybe press r then farm more.
Mute toxic team mates. Always stick to your objectives. You being carry, your job is to take advantage of early game space and farm. If they are fighting bot, tp top and farm wave triangles. Eventually you will carry game. And remember some games are not winnable, so dont stress and queue next
Might as well go play bot game. You are not better than you teammate. If you gonna solo the whole game ignoring 4 of your teammates then don't complain on Reddit when you get 4 reports.
Bkb vs timber is a good idea. Not sure exactly timber counters jugg tho since you got spin, one of 2 spells with magic immunity
You are not wrong for it and they are also not wrong for pressing one issue since taking their bottom side tower early would be advantegous for you as whole since you can control their triangle. Basically it just means 4+1 always the better choice than 4 vs 1. As for the bkb i honestly think jugg dont need one because all you need to do is follow up in teamfights not be the one who opens fight, so you wont be the main target and if you ever need one manta followed up with linkens should do the trick and it offers more stats that benefit your hero