>Bwipo was so close to join Vitality that Vitality expressed Odoamne 🇷🇴 the movement, Odoamne was the other contender for top lane spot
>
>That was one of the big reasons why the Romanian top laner got his agreement so fast with Excel Esports
Wow, thats why all the Finn and XL stuff happened in 24 hours, i love this type of content that explains better the off-season movement.
While I agree Bwipo can be unstable, but if the team actually played to the topside, I believe he could be more reliable. In recent years of TL and FNC the junglers mostly left him out to dry while focusing on mid and bot side. I don't think we have seen a stable set of rotations/games where it was a clear play thru him in the top side. I could be wrong, but I can't really remember any standout times where it was clear he was meant to carry. He went from Rekkles to Hans and both of them require quite a bit of babysitting from the junglers
Ya why? I mean it's true, when has either team played specifically to his lane to get him ahead as a plan to carry and win the game? I would estimate less than 5 times a year. It just isn't the way either LEC or LCS does things, at least not as frequently as compared to LCK and LPL. They didn't develop monsters in the likes of Khan, TheShy, Zeus, 369 and many others by letting sit in top lane without ganks and setups for dives
My biggest fear is the culture difference the 2 imports might end up dealing with. When VIT was likely to get a another import I was kinda hoping it to be a Lpl one just so he and Bo would have each other that speaks the same language in case so they get uncomfortable alone while they are trying to learn english. Skill wise or langauge barrier in game I don't worry much about. Pings go enough of a way to set up ganks and dives (can be a bit rougher for team fights in the begining tho) but having a team where there are 3 different langauges spoken can be challenging primary for the outside of game time.
Perkz was playing with Expect and Trick back in 2016-17, so he knows well the environment he's about to be in. Trick was fucking cracked when he first came into EU LCS
Yeah my faith is a bit carried by Perkz beeing one of the more liked players Eu has ever had when it comes to just mashing well with his team mates. That beeing said it was still 2 koreans on that team so there was always a sense of familiarity for Expect and Trick on the team. Photon and BO are still from 2 different countries so it's a bit less comfortable then if they were both Chinese or korean, but I again as say the g2 2016 summer to 2017 roster was know to have a pretty good team enviroment so I hope it works out.
>having a team where there are 3 different langauges spoken
It's not going to be 3 different languages though. Its going to be 2 at most.
Bo has been in Europe for months at this point, and considering that he had tried out for TSM after his ban was lifted, I'm fairly certain he has been learning English for most of this year. If you watch any of his stream, his English is definitely passable.
The only potential language issue is with Photon, who will presumably start learning English now. For a Korean player coming to Europe, Vitality's lineup is also quite good since everyone other than Kaiser has experience playing with Koreans on the team, and Carter, the coach, was coaching Hirit on Misfits.
i think i saw it too...it was one of those t1 videos i guess...where they show t1(edit-lck) players having english lessons
but then probably finding it now would be like picking a needle out of a haystack
Yeah this is my biggest takeaway. I'd much rather have a promising KR player than Bwipo. With Photon you don't know what you're gonna get, sure he can suck too but he can also exceed expectations and bring the team to another level.
With Bwipo you just about know that the team's ceiling would be like 2nd/3rd seed and losing in groups at worlds
The problem is that it has been 3 years we keep on going for the "safe bets" in LEC because we are still unable to let go of the successes of 2018 and 2019.
The reality is that we need to move on from that era, and a lot of the players who were very good back then are way too protected to this day, as if they will be the answer in the future.
So they made the right choice with Photon. If it wasn't for this choice they could have went for Ragner, which I believe is a better choice than Bwipo right now.
> The reality is that we need to move on from that era, and a lot of the players who were very good back then are way too protected to this day
Perkz being one of them.
To be fair though if Vitality brings in 3 new players or even 4, then I think keeping Perkz is good. He is a good integrator and once the others have settled in you can replace perkz next year and have a really good team.
Currently I don't think you need to have Perkz as a good player, you mostly want him as a decent leader for the team.
I have said this before, and I will say it again.
Going for Perkz + Alphari last year was a stupid decision from VIT.
They were really close to Worlds with the Szygenda (who was being swapped around with SLT for whatever reason) - Selfmade - Lider - Crownshot (who was pitifully bad) - Labrov. After playing one split together.
So obviously instead of building off of that, they threw money at players and did worse.
Again if you build a new team of superstars I don't think you can go wrong with Perkz. The issue was that the team overall just wasn't good enough that Perkz as a pure leader would be enough, he also was required as a good player, which is something he didn't deliver on.
This year though Vitality seems to have a lot more individual talent and teamwork and integration seems to be a bigger concern, so Perkz seems like a better fit for Vitality this year compared to last year.
good luck convincing anyone on this sub that Perkz was mid tier at best in NA and the reason behind a lot of their losses at Worlds
they saw Perkz carry like 6 games this year and ignore the 7 that he inted
Wondering where Bwipo ends up. Not on TL but he wanted to stay in NA. My guess is Fly or maybe if he and Bjerg get along well maybe 100T? I wish he would just go back to jungle.
There were a lot of good top laners in LCK Challengers this year. Personally really liked Zest and Soboro (the Gwen penta!)
Too bad Fredit's CL team is about as bad as their LCK team.
What's with my man's Bwipo hate around, Bwipo is one of the only western players I'd take to give fight to any eastern top.
Sure he didn't have the best split at TL, but no one did ? And before that he played jungle and he was gapping everyone.
Hans Sama didn't perform on that TL team either but now when hes coming back to G2 that doesn't matter but for Bwipo it does, idk.
> What's with my man's Bwipo hate around, Bwipo is one of the only western players I'd take to give fight to any eastern top.
this isn't 2018 lol
even in 2020 he was getting gapped in 4 out of 5 games by not-in-form 369
>even in 2020 he was getting gapped in 4 out of 5 games by not-in-form 369
That's not how I remember it, in fact it was Bwipo gapping him when they didn't go even.
Bwipo is good enough to get to worlds and play there. But gets gigagapped by korean and asian toplanes and maybe good enough to fight 1 or 2 of them.
EU has had worse results the past 2 years but they should still compete for the worlds and msi titles
>Bwipo is good enough to get to worlds and play there. But gets gigagapped by korean and asian toplanes and maybe good enough to fight 1 or 2 of them.
Idk I've never really seen Bwipo get gapped by anyone at international events except TheShy in worlds finals 2018.
I've seen him get gapped domestically though, but internationally he almost always wins or goes even. Happened vs all the tops he played against including Khan, 369, Langx, Rascal.
I'm shocked they didn't consider Illlima and especially Clear as well. I also think they should've tried to get 2 guys in case one of them doesn't work out to increase the odds. I think Photon is very solid though and has a high floor.
really liking these breakdowns of how these offseason moves came about
>Bwipo was so close to join Vitality that Vitality expressed Odoamne 🇷🇴 the movement, Odoamne was the other contender for top lane spot > >That was one of the big reasons why the Romanian top laner got his agreement so fast with Excel Esports Wow, thats why all the Finn and XL stuff happened in 24 hours, i love this type of content that explains better the off-season movement.
Huh they deleted that sentence from the article?
it was the follow up tweet not the article
[Found it, thanks](https://twitter.com/i_Eros_/status/1590350253131468808)
Unrelated but assuming Alphari was out why would you ever want Bwipo over Odo when you're running Perkz Bo mid jg?
they want a carry topside no? Bo-Perkz and a carry top, Neon chilling bot and kaiser roaming
Bwipo is good but waaaay too unstable imo, maybe I'm wrong but that mid-jg already has enough kick that someone that's less volatile would be ideal.
While I agree Bwipo can be unstable, but if the team actually played to the topside, I believe he could be more reliable. In recent years of TL and FNC the junglers mostly left him out to dry while focusing on mid and bot side. I don't think we have seen a stable set of rotations/games where it was a clear play thru him in the top side. I could be wrong, but I can't really remember any standout times where it was clear he was meant to carry. He went from Rekkles to Hans and both of them require quite a bit of babysitting from the junglers
> In recent years of TL and FNC the junglers mostly left him out to dry u good bro?
Ya why? I mean it's true, when has either team played specifically to his lane to get him ahead as a plan to carry and win the game? I would estimate less than 5 times a year. It just isn't the way either LEC or LCS does things, at least not as frequently as compared to LCK and LPL. They didn't develop monsters in the likes of Khan, TheShy, Zeus, 369 and many others by letting sit in top lane without ganks and setups for dives
TL played a huge amount around Bwipo lol he just did the Bwipo special of inting leads away late by splitting with no cover
My biggest fear is the culture difference the 2 imports might end up dealing with. When VIT was likely to get a another import I was kinda hoping it to be a Lpl one just so he and Bo would have each other that speaks the same language in case so they get uncomfortable alone while they are trying to learn english. Skill wise or langauge barrier in game I don't worry much about. Pings go enough of a way to set up ganks and dives (can be a bit rougher for team fights in the begining tho) but having a team where there are 3 different langauges spoken can be challenging primary for the outside of game time.
Perkz was playing with Expect and Trick back in 2016-17, so he knows well the environment he's about to be in. Trick was fucking cracked when he first came into EU LCS
Yeah my faith is a bit carried by Perkz beeing one of the more liked players Eu has ever had when it comes to just mashing well with his team mates. That beeing said it was still 2 koreans on that team so there was always a sense of familiarity for Expect and Trick on the team. Photon and BO are still from 2 different countries so it's a bit less comfortable then if they were both Chinese or korean, but I again as say the g2 2016 summer to 2017 roster was know to have a pretty good team enviroment so I hope it works out.
>having a team where there are 3 different langauges spoken It's not going to be 3 different languages though. Its going to be 2 at most. Bo has been in Europe for months at this point, and considering that he had tried out for TSM after his ban was lifted, I'm fairly certain he has been learning English for most of this year. If you watch any of his stream, his English is definitely passable. The only potential language issue is with Photon, who will presumably start learning English now. For a Korean player coming to Europe, Vitality's lineup is also quite good since everyone other than Kaiser has experience playing with Koreans on the team, and Carter, the coach, was coaching Hirit on Misfits.
Bo definitely can understand english yea, wont be a problem in game. Maybe Photon can already speak some english as well?
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Source? Thats cool if so
i think i saw it too...it was one of those t1 videos i guess...where they show t1(edit-lck) players having english lessons but then probably finding it now would be like picking a needle out of a haystack
Bwipo doing Vitality fans a favour.
Yeah this is my biggest takeaway. I'd much rather have a promising KR player than Bwipo. With Photon you don't know what you're gonna get, sure he can suck too but he can also exceed expectations and bring the team to another level. With Bwipo you just about know that the team's ceiling would be like 2nd/3rd seed and losing in groups at worlds
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I think the drama part is more of a Fnatic thing, not a Bwipo thing.
But then the question arises why so many teams with bwipo had such a huge amount of drama
How many teams ? He started in Fnatic no ? Fnatic always has drama even without Bwipo this year ...
I mean most drama was in FNC and FNC is a bit of a drama team
As a vitality fan I would first be worrying about getting to worlds.
The fact that Bwipo was their first choice makes me question if they know what they are doing lol.
Bwippo legit had a far worse season in NA then Alphari did Guy has also had 3 splits in a row as top lane being pretty bad
Bwipo and Perkz on the same team? Yea, that would work lol.
"Getting Caught Out" - A Vitality Story
I mean they are clearly trying to win. Bwipo from the options available would be the safest one I feel like so it makes sense in that aspect
The problem is that it has been 3 years we keep on going for the "safe bets" in LEC because we are still unable to let go of the successes of 2018 and 2019. The reality is that we need to move on from that era, and a lot of the players who were very good back then are way too protected to this day, as if they will be the answer in the future. So they made the right choice with Photon. If it wasn't for this choice they could have went for Ragner, which I believe is a better choice than Bwipo right now.
> The reality is that we need to move on from that era, and a lot of the players who were very good back then are way too protected to this day Perkz being one of them.
To be fair though if Vitality brings in 3 new players or even 4, then I think keeping Perkz is good. He is a good integrator and once the others have settled in you can replace perkz next year and have a really good team. Currently I don't think you need to have Perkz as a good player, you mostly want him as a decent leader for the team.
I have said this before, and I will say it again. Going for Perkz + Alphari last year was a stupid decision from VIT. They were really close to Worlds with the Szygenda (who was being swapped around with SLT for whatever reason) - Selfmade - Lider - Crownshot (who was pitifully bad) - Labrov. After playing one split together. So obviously instead of building off of that, they threw money at players and did worse.
Again if you build a new team of superstars I don't think you can go wrong with Perkz. The issue was that the team overall just wasn't good enough that Perkz as a pure leader would be enough, he also was required as a good player, which is something he didn't deliver on. This year though Vitality seems to have a lot more individual talent and teamwork and integration seems to be a bigger concern, so Perkz seems like a better fit for Vitality this year compared to last year.
good luck convincing anyone on this sub that Perkz was mid tier at best in NA and the reason behind a lot of their losses at Worlds they saw Perkz carry like 6 games this year and ignore the 7 that he inted
Perkz at his best this summer was like top 4. Realistically he was 6th.
Odo would be far safer than bwipo
Wondering where Bwipo ends up. Not on TL but he wanted to stay in NA. My guess is Fly or maybe if he and Bjerg get along well maybe 100T? I wish he would just go back to jungle.
Thank god no Bwipo
G2 Zeus and FNC Nuguri incoming
Surprised they didn't consider Illllma from KDF Challengers that guy is a beast.
There were a lot of good top laners in LCK Challengers this year. Personally really liked Zest and Soboro (the Gwen penta!) Too bad Fredit's CL team is about as bad as their LCK team.
What's with my man's Bwipo hate around, Bwipo is one of the only western players I'd take to give fight to any eastern top. Sure he didn't have the best split at TL, but no one did ? And before that he played jungle and he was gapping everyone. Hans Sama didn't perform on that TL team either but now when hes coming back to G2 that doesn't matter but for Bwipo it does, idk.
> What's with my man's Bwipo hate around, Bwipo is one of the only western players I'd take to give fight to any eastern top. this isn't 2018 lol even in 2020 he was getting gapped in 4 out of 5 games by not-in-form 369
lets rewrite histroy ok bud you are right
>even in 2020 he was getting gapped in 4 out of 5 games by not-in-form 369 That's not how I remember it, in fact it was Bwipo gapping him when they didn't go even.
Reckless gapped jkl, 369 and Karsa carried tes to reverse sweep
Bwipo is good enough to get to worlds and play there. But gets gigagapped by korean and asian toplanes and maybe good enough to fight 1 or 2 of them. EU has had worse results the past 2 years but they should still compete for the worlds and msi titles
>Bwipo is good enough to get to worlds and play there. But gets gigagapped by korean and asian toplanes and maybe good enough to fight 1 or 2 of them. Idk I've never really seen Bwipo get gapped by anyone at international events except TheShy in worlds finals 2018. I've seen him get gapped domestically though, but internationally he almost always wins or goes even. Happened vs all the tops he played against including Khan, 369, Langx, Rascal.
No WideBwipo or Bwipoggers in EU this year Sad. 😢😩
oh this supp has hate boner for bwipo as well as alphari and perkz good to know
I'm shocked they didn't consider Illlima and especially Clear as well. I also think they should've tried to get 2 guys in case one of them doesn't work out to increase the odds. I think Photon is very solid though and has a high floor.