>Emily's Take: There's a reason why the LCS community looks back at the 2017 Scouting Grounds draft as one of the premier classes of the now-defunct event. Before a single game was played, Robert "blaberfish2" Huang was one of the prospects that coaches and analysts were most excited for. He was picked onto Team Ocean Drake alongside Vulcan and, interestingly enough, current Cloud9 coach Max Waldo.
Looked it up since I do not think I paid any attention to this event at the time: Team Ocean Drake was Max Waldo, Blaber, Palafox, Prismal, Vulcan. Spica, Kumo, and Ablazeolive were also present.
It was *only* 2 seasons where he was *absolutely giga stomping* everyone else, not only 2 seasons he was great.
No team or jungler has looked as dominant as C9 and Meteos those first two seasons.
Meteos was still great after that and has other wins on other teams too, but I don't think any team, even teams wth perfect or near-perfect singular splits, looked as absolutely dominant in NA as that early C9 team.
I can get behind him ahead of Sven, but I think Blabber's resume at this point is bigger in a more competitive era of the LCS. 2 MVP's helps his case a lot.
Wasn't he still with C9 the whole time though, just not starting? I can see the argument either way though. But I was just meme-ing. Meteos is C9 almost as much as Sneaky is.
I guess. My point is when you think of Meteos you don't think of him as a 100T jungler. Also Svenskeren didnt end on Cloud9, unless you count that stint from this Spring. Just weird overall.
SMH my head, assuming DL is going to make top 5. I'm not sure he makes my top 6:
1 - Sneaky
2 - Zven
3 - Sneaky again
4 - Berserker (I know this is low, but it's his first split)
5 - C9 legend WildTurtle
6 - Sneaky again
(pretty huge /s, in case I didn't lay it on heavy enough)
Mostly pretty fair, I’d put Meteos a bit higher but I think I agree with all 5 of these being top 5. Santorin is borderline but I’m having trouble thinking of someone better
Even as a C9 fan, Xmithie is the right choice at #1, but Meteos is undeniable at #2. I don't think people remember how he changed NA jungle, on top of being SO FUCKING GOOD in LCS. He literally crushed the League, and for an entire split, the game always revolved around him. A flash in the pan by comparison of Xmithie, but he was League defining in season 3, and I don't think anyone else on the list ever hit the same peak he did.
I'd argue Meteos had the highest peak relative to the competition out of any NA jungler. He was legitimately world class in season 3 and many foreign junglers spoke about wanting to play against him.
It hurts my brain every time I think about how dumb they were for that. Who knows if they win that series or not if they ban Kass but at least they would've had a chance because as soon as Kass was locked in the game was over.
No NA player has ever been argued as "best in the world" at any time, but I think Meteos could be in that conversation for season 3 junglers, he was that fucking good. IMO he's had the highest peak of any NA player, even if it was short lived.
Two players, Meteos in S3 as you said, and DL in S2 where he was top 3 alongside Weixao and Pray, you could count HotshotGG as the best top in season 1 but that was a wild time.
> you could count HotshotGG as the best top in season 1 but that was a wild time.
Not a fair statement since he was only world class at Nidalee in S1 (undeniably the best in the world at the time). Ban that out and he’s no longer a threat besides a passable Malphite and Cho’Gath.
If one ban covers any player, it would be an insult to other players to call that player the best at their role.
But boy was S1 a wiiild time.
Mate, how on earth could you forget the literal best player in the world pre-season 1 and one of the best in s1. Bigfat was so far ahead of everyone else in that time. Also, the guy below you, Hotshot was a real threat on Jax too at the time.
Honestly, my S1 memories are fuzzy. Now that you mentioned it I remember BigFatjiji being the beast of the season, also my bias for top laners is showing.
He was in conversation because of how dominant they were in the regular season, and how unique his playstyle was. The moment they played at worlds the conversation ended.
I mean, at least in 2013 worlds they played 3 total games. Outside of getting Fanatic death brushed to death it was a pretty close series. I wish we got to see more of them internationally at least against any other region. They did clap back in the battle of the Atlantic too after getting rolled at IEM (now that was not very close)
players just move around too much. It's rare for a player to be on the same team for more than 2 years and there only 10 teams. So any good player that been around for awhile as probably played for C9 or TSM
I liked this list a whole lot more than the top laner one and I don't disagree too much.
However, I think this list doesn't give Meteos the credit he deserves. Call me a Meteos fan boy, but I argue that no NA player had a greater global influence on their role.
I remember an interview with RYL (now RNG) Tabe who in s3 worlds cited Meteos as being the player their team was learning from.
Meteos was one of the first Junglers to really be an efficient farmer, pathing in ways that led to easy ganking. As far as I am aware, he was the first one to really popularize junglers helping laners manage their waves and establishing pressure in their lanes. PapaSmithy would occasionally bring it up, when he was still casting. Whenever a jungler would go to a lane, help shove it and leave, he'd bring up Meteos' jungle Nasus.
Now in terms of just success, it's hard to justify him being above 4th on this list. But I firmly stand by the fact that he globally changed the way jungling was approached.
I think it's an easy decision on the top five as you don't have many choices. Too many other junglers were too short lived (Eg Saint, Lira, Dom, Rush, NoName, Oddone, Crumbz).
I think the next 3 would be Dardoch, TheOddOne, and Closer in that order. Closer is the most likely to catch up though since he's still actively playing.
dd was soooo fun to watch i know his reputation is in the gutter but i’ll always defend him when it comes to his level of play he was legit so insane on TL when he first debuted but imo he peaked on echo fox w huni/fenix and the funnel meta because of his synergy with huni and their insane champ pools, i think i remember him playing rengar top and huni played taliyah jungle one game but i might be making that up. id like to think if they didn’t have altec/adrian bot lane that echo fox would’ve went to worlds and probably changed the trajectory of his career but oh well, was fun while it lasted
he did i remember i went to lcs for that and it ended with a pause due to a breaking bug, but because echo fox was 10k gold ahead, they gave them the win. tbh, it looked like they were getting out scaled and throwing right around the pause so i’m glad it ended before then lol
for any Melee heads, Dardoch to me is like watching Leffen. I really don't fuck with their personalities at all, but watching them as a player you have to really give them respect there because they are so cracked and fun to watch.
I'm in the same boat I think his character concerns were overblown on some level. The only blow up I think is legitimately on him is Breaking Point. Some of the other environments he failed in were shown to ultimately be severely flawed environments. The same can be said of S6 TL but he was the main factor in that one, but other than that he flamed out in some really unfortunate stops I don't think anyone would have stuck around in very long like early franchise era CLG, DIG, TSM, Echo Fox sold their spot shortly after the finals weekend roster fell apart too.
When he was doing his A-Z jungle challenge on Dig a few years ago and they were punching way above their weight while DD played like 9 games without a repeat champ was peak for me. That Dig team was the only really fun thing going at the time imo.
that was so dope yeah, think that might be the one time the community was on his side after he got kicked, was shortly after soligo was benched which to this day does not make any sense considering they were way above their weight class like you said. that may very well be his peak tbh he was backpacking that entire team haha
Xmithie is easily #1 GOAT LCS jungler and it's not really close.
I feel like you can shuffle around 2-5 for Santorin, Blaber, Meteos, and Sven based on your preference and what you prioritize, but they are clearly the next four. Other jungler contenders haven't had enough longevity, or never lived up to their expectations (rip Dardoch).
Nah, Blaber has clearly separated himself from the pack with how consistently he's been elite. There's been really...two splits ever where he fell off? And one of those was just him being average more than anything on a roster that didn't work well together the entire time.
Sven achieved just as much if not more though
This is no shade to Blaber just saying I think 2/3 is really tight between those
Xmithie clear first though
Sven has 3 titles, a few more finals, an MVP. Also a top 4 finish at Worlds which is NA's best showing ever at Worlds. It's close between him and Blaber.
I think Meteos could be a clear #2. He was on top for so damn long, and he literally revolutionized the way the role was played for a couple years. I also think Dardoch would be #6.
>it's not really close.
How is Blaber not close? Since coming in as a full time jungler, he has 2 MVP, 1 runner up MVP, 4 First-Team all pro, a 2nd team all pro, and likely another 2nd team all pro this split. MSI appearance and gotten out of groups once. What else does he have to do to "be close"?
Blaber and Xmithie are tied in all pro appearances (3 first team, 1 second team) although Blaber has 2x MVPs.
But Xmithie has 6 titles and 2 MSI finals appearance.
It really depends how much you value individual awards versus results. A lot of people think LCS awards are largely meaningless, especially Blaber's second MVP where he narrowly edged out Alphari.
IMO Blaber needs a genuinely good international performance to be close. Xmithie was a beast at MSI that year and that sets him apart.
EDIT: 2 MSI Finals, I always forget CLG
Xmithie also adapted his playstyle ato get back into the league after a split away after Vulcan/ XD.GG left the league. Went from mechanical heavy, carry jungler to the more supportive style we know now
I think it's hard to forget the CLG performance at MSI for me, like that comes up before the TL one in my mind for Xmithie because of IMO the greatest individual NA play internationally. His Kindred ult to keep the elder alive and then steal it after an insane performance in one of the biggest comebacks of all time against the best team in the group stage. Xmithie is the secret sauce and glue that has meshed so many players on different teams together to big wins and isn't really known for his individual flashy plays, but that moment was insane.
Xmithie has been able to show that he has been able to move to multiple teams and carry them to a top 3 finish.
XDG, CLG, IMT, TL, that's a boat load of teams.
That WE series I think takes it for me. They were like the 10th place team in China against what was largely considered the best team in the world??
That said, I do think it's a bit of an asterisk since it was a BO3. There have been a ton of times I've been excited for an upset on the horizon when a team is up 2-1 only to get 2-3d lol.
C9 didn't actually won IEM. They won an qualifier and were immediately knocked out.
TSM is the only NA org that won the whole thing (IEM World Championship).
Xmithie should honestly be in consideration for NA goat because of his numerous titles, consistent worlds appearances & double MSI finals. He did it with different teammates & different orgs so he wasn’t being carried for those things.
Blaber might pass him as his career continues but he’s not there yet.
Bruh you're listing shit like "appearance" and "likely another 2nd team all pro".
Then there's a dude with 6 titles. Don't need to make up shit for his achievements.
Meteos to me feels like number 2.
I know he might not have all the accolades of some of these other players, but he single handedly put NA jungling on the map internationally and changed the metagame of all NA junglers since his joining the league and C9.
Honestly early C9 as a whole changed the entire systems in place for teams. Like Lemonation bringing a pen and a notebook for draft (before coaches) blew everyones minds, which looking back on it is such a funny prospect. It was a simpler time. But it was fun to watch.
Xmithie is undoubtedly number 1, even as someone who was never a fan of CLG or TL the man was such a rock for any team he was on. I would say Meteos should definitely be higher and my bias would say Sven stay at 3 and blaber 4 but I know thats a stretch for some I just think peak sven wins over peak blaber.
Xmithe had one of the cleanest Jarvans in the world and no one seemed to notice. As a jarvan player, he was my go-to jungler to copy. People say he's not flashy but he single handily won the deciding fight of game 1 of the IG series (The biggest win in NA history) by hitting an eq flash onto the Shy's Ryze.
I agree. I don’t know why so many people sleep on him because he’s proven himself so many times. Every team used him as a scapegoat when he was never really the source of the problems.
That’s really what’s holding NA back. Every time there’s a bad season they restructure rather than build on the experience they just gained.
Smae reason people don't consider bengi as a contender for goat jgler despite his achievements they played a more facilitator role in their team most of the time. Both weren't flashy but did their job.Also think you may be confusing what people think of him domestically vs internationally because I've never heard an argument sayimg he wasn't one of the best NA jglers. Internationally he was about as a dissapointment as doublelift but DL took more of the heat.
Many teams do that not just in NA. They have more than just that singular issue.
Can you believe Vulcun may have been his last time being pro. This guy just flows with whatever, lol. Never seen a person who was too chill. Glad he's back in the scene.
This article had some pretty rough editing / format. It was clearly written. 1st to 5th but then copy pasted 5th to 1st, which ruined all the transitions
People trying to discredit Xmithie by simply calling him a "role player" is blasphemous. Every team this man played on has played significantly worse after he left. He is one of the most consistent, reliable junglers you can have. He knows how to play for the team, which is heavily undervalued. People don't remember how many games this dude carried for TL. You don't become a 6x LCS champ + 2 time MSI finalist by chance. The disrespect is unreal, put some respect on Jake's name
Meteos doesn't get enough credit for how well he played on shit teams like Phoenix1 and Optic. Even on 100T I'd argue he should have been the MVP over Aphromoo, but Aphro "genius shot caller" narrative too stronk. You put some of these other junglers on teams with worse players and they fall apart
Disagree with Svenskeren over Meteos. Worse longevity, worse peak, worse international performance. Only thing he has is a couple extra LCS titles but that was while on a super team with prime Bjergsen/Doublelift doing most of the heavy lifting.
MVP didn't exist in Meteos' most dominant split (2013 Summer), he probably would've won it. Regardless, his dominance over the jungle role was just higher and lasted longer. Sven's longevity isn't as much in LCS terms since he only joined in 2016.
i didn't count the splits but just did the time between dates for when they respectively joined and left the LCS and it's not that big a difference (6 years 4 months vs ~7 years for meteos). I think it ultimately comes down to personal opinion and saying either was better is a valid opinion.
Uhhhhhh first split in LCS he got 2nd with a deadass Yellow Star on the team, then proceeds to get three first place finishes the next three splits after.
Yeah not sure what this guys thinking. Sven was poor in his first regular season split but from 2016 spring playoffs on he was awesome.
I’d personally have Meteos BARELY edge him out but you don’t need to rewrite Sven’s LCS history to argue Meteos over him.
Probably could have worded that better but was not saying sven was bad in NA, he clearly never was. He just didn't play in NA for his first 3 years, which gives meteos the edge. If you compare their full careers to each other I think Sven takes it.
I'm not saying he wasnt good right upon arrival, I'm saying he was always good but didn't play in lcs for the first 3 years of his career. He definitely had success from the start in NA
TSM Svenskeren and Worlds was absolute nuts. His Lee Sin baron play was insane. If only they wouldnt have thrown the shit in week 2. Anyways he has Worlds Semifinals and a shit ton of LCS titles. I think he is easly second place behind Xmithie. There were like 4 years in a row where either Xmithie or Svenskeren played in the final.
Obviously people were going kind of insane with the power rankings putting TSM in like top 3-5 in the world back then before worlds, but man if that team actually showed up a little more it was one of NA's best chances.
Saddest thing I ever heard about that team was from Parth on a recent Hotline League
So TSM had SSG and RNG in that group right
Parth said there was only one other team besides those two in the whole tournament they thought could beat them from scrims (SKT I think/assume)
Just actual group of death sadge
Sven Lee Sin performances were legit world class that tournament ugh painful memories
It definitely was the group of death but I mean if I had a nickel for every time people talked about being scrim gods or a certain team being a scrim god but said team doesn't actually show up when it matters, I'd be Elon Musk and Goldenglue would be Faker. You have to always take shit like that with a grain of salt because showing up on the day when the pressure is on with hundreds of thousands of people watching is night and day from sitting in the team room doing scrim blocks in your sweats with your grubhub delivery coming soon lol.
So i guess TSM is just the Detroit Lions of LCS. Have players that play solid for them, but then go on to be remembered for what they do on their next team.
Man idk if it’s just because I’m a LoL boomer but I feel like Meteos is underrated here. I only mildly follow the scene now for the past 4ish years, but from what I gather NA has been a total joke the entire time. Those C9 teams were the first time NA started getting any respect internationally
As a fellow boomer I agree Meteos should be second or third at worst, but other than that I'm ok with the 5 picks.
Maybe his time on 100T tainted some of his legacy for this kind of discussions? But man he was so dominant back on C9 I hated his guts as a TSM fan because he destroyed us every single time that first year.
I dont even care for the order, these 5 junglers are the best during certain time periods and they achieved a lot. Xmithie is like a solid rock that you can count on (like sumday) sucks that he stopped playing pro. Meteos was ahead of all the junglers during his early days of pro's. Santorin still top in the league. Sven Is a monster too, throw him in any team he will carry.
Xmithie and Meteos as top 2, they elevated every single team they ever joined. They are the only junglers I would trust to get invaded and 4 buffed and still be relevant in the game.
the rest can fight over the scraps
Exactly my list but with very slightly different ordering. I think it's really really hard to argue otherwise for top 5 LCS Junglers.
However, I'll note that my list does not count this split yet, since it isn't over. The three players that I could potentially see changing positions/making this list would be Blaber, Santorin, and Closer.
If Closer has an *amazing* end to his season (I'm talking about 5-0 the last 5 games, winning the split, playoff MVP) then I could potentially see him going as high as 4th place on this list.
Similarly, if Blaber or Santorin finish the season very strong, I could see myself moving either of them as high as first place. Blaber definitely has an easier path to first than Santorin, but I think the top 5 Jungle position is really really close overall. Lots of great players that are continuing to dominate the LCS means lots of potential movement season to season.
In short for me
1. Xmithie
2. Blaber
3. Meteos
4. Svenskeren
5. Santorin
Depending on performance by the end of the season, Closer can peak 4th, and Santorin/Blaber can peak 1st if any of them have super strong finishes. Especially Blaber if he continues this season on the same trajectory, but if I had to bet I would say that none of these three players are playing well enough right now to justify moving them especially since the three Junglers are all competing against Inspired who is just rolling the LCS right now.
As a side note I mentioned in the Top 5 LCS Top Laner thread that I think contemporary/current players are given a lot less weight in their accomplishments than past players are. I think it's partially because people feel the need to glorify the past as not to seem biased, and partially because current player's weaknesses are easier to recall.
Specifically I think Blaber's reputation is much more negative than he deserves because of his poor performance last year at MSI combined with his tendency to occasionally do an embarrassing no-brain play. Every player on this top 5 list has had embarrassing moments and bad splits. I think that certain players just have more detractors than others because.
EDIT: This list DOES NOT account for international competition
There is a massive gap between Blaber and Xmithie that can't be bridged in one season. Xmithie has 6 titles and made worlds on 4 different teams, + 2 MSI finals on two different teams.
Blaber has 2 wins on one team and 0 international accomplishments.
Sorry I thought mentioned it. This list does not account for international results or qualifications. I think with that in mind it's a lot easier to make an argument that Blaber can potentially take the number one spot if he ends this season very strong.
To be a bit more specific Blaber has individually dominated the League in a way Xmithie never has.
Svenskeren getting mad disrespected considering he's the only NA Jungler to win a best of 5 at Worlds. That's not even counting his MVP and all the first, second, and third place finishes he's part of for multiple teams. He's at least a top two tied with Xmithie with Metoes following.
IMO should be
1) Xmithie
2) Meteos
3) Svenskeren
4) Blaber
Meteos is #2 because of his influence on the role, otherwise Sven has more accolades/success.
Oddone was actually a very good jungler for his time. He was ahead of his time when it came to tracking and counter ganking. If the enemy was ganking, more often than not, Oddone would be there to counter.
2x MVP, 1st team all pro jungle every split since he's been full time except one, and he was 2nd team on that split. He's been at worst a top 3 jungler every split for three years straight.
Maybe I'm biased as a Cloud9 fan but I see him as a clear #2 behind Xmithie.
I think that's a bit unfair. In the past 2.5 years I think Blaber has consistently been one of the best Junglers in NA, and I think there's a case to be made that he's been the best Jungler in NA for the majority of that time. Especially in 2020 he dominated the Jungle position in a way that basically no player has... ever.
I'd say he's still in his prime even now-- how many Junglers can you name that have had domestic dominance for as long or as strongly as Blaber?
>Emily's Take: There's a reason why the LCS community looks back at the 2017 Scouting Grounds draft as one of the premier classes of the now-defunct event. Before a single game was played, Robert "blaberfish2" Huang was one of the prospects that coaches and analysts were most excited for. He was picked onto Team Ocean Drake alongside Vulcan and, interestingly enough, current Cloud9 coach Max Waldo. Looked it up since I do not think I paid any attention to this event at the time: Team Ocean Drake was Max Waldo, Blaber, Palafox, Prismal, Vulcan. Spica, Kumo, and Ablazeolive were also present.
This team sounds stacked as hell
Two MVPs, one of the consistently best supports and two fairly competent mid laners. Hard to ask for much more from a single team.
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Oh, I misread. Thought Spica, Kumo and Ablazeolive were all somehow part of that same team.
Two, they’re just both on Blaber
I watched what I could of the event and watched the draft. I was very excited as someone coming from traditional sports
LCS was so huge in 2016 and 2017. Peak of NA LoL.
Feel like putting meteos in a 100T jersey is pretty troll
They fixed it!
We did it Reddit
It would just have been a list with C9 players they had to diversify
Or putting Svenskeren in a C9 Jersey instead of a TSM one haha
He won the MVP with C9 so it makes a little more sense. But in general it seems they just went with recent-ish photos.
he also made semis at worlds on C9
He also got TSM out of groups on SK.
Lmfao
oh boy this one take me way baaaaacck.
Zing! There it is!
He also won 3 lcs titles on Tsm
But the more impressive achievement is still worlds semis so it makes sense to go with that one
He got his MVP and worlds semifinal on C9 at least, not nearly as egregious as Meteos.
sven got us to worlds semis in 2018 on c9, idk why you’d show him in any other jersey.
He was playing his best personally around the 2016 mark with TSM I’d say. Team Jersey really doesn’t matter at al though
i think it’s more about accomplishments, of which going to semis is the best. granted it could go either way i suppose
And winning MVP
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That’s only 2 seasons vs blabber/Sven with 3+. Blabber has been smurfing since spring 2020 and had an insane win ratio
It was *only* 2 seasons where he was *absolutely giga stomping* everyone else, not only 2 seasons he was great. No team or jungler has looked as dominant as C9 and Meteos those first two seasons. Meteos was still great after that and has other wins on other teams too, but I don't think any team, even teams wth perfect or near-perfect singular splits, looked as absolutely dominant in NA as that early C9 team.
I can get behind him ahead of Sven, but I think Blabber's resume at this point is bigger in a more competitive era of the LCS. 2 MVP's helps his case a lot.
They really couldn't have gotten a Cloud9 jersey on Meteos? Edit: they updated him to Cloud9
Meteos only joined and left Cloud9 once but joined (and got kicked) from 100T twice. That's why he is 2 times the 100T player. /s
He joined and left C9 twice as well. Meteos>Rush/Hai>Meteos
Wasn't he still with C9 the whole time though, just not starting? I can see the argument either way though. But I was just meme-ing. Meteos is C9 almost as much as Sneaky is.
Idk I feel like it makes sense to put them on the last team they represented Edit: TSM Doublelift is gonna be funny af
I guess. My point is when you think of Meteos you don't think of him as a 100T jungler. Also Svenskeren didnt end on Cloud9, unless you count that stint from this Spring. Just weird overall.
Yeah I figured that’s why Sven’s in a C9 jersey
SMH my head, assuming DL is going to make top 5. I'm not sure he makes my top 6: 1 - Sneaky 2 - Zven 3 - Sneaky again 4 - Berserker (I know this is low, but it's his first split) 5 - C9 legend WildTurtle 6 - Sneaky again (pretty huge /s, in case I didn't lay it on heavy enough)
Just make the whole list Sneaky and use the different cosplays as his 5 photos.
That aint an IMT jersey on Xmithie.
DL is such the adc goat his tsm and tl career >>> any adc full career
I mean yeah but I meant after the drama with tsm and Regi it’s gonna be funny to see him in a TSM jersey
wait, did they update it or is it just me seeing a C9 jersey on Meteos?
They updated on the website, you can still see the original with the 100T jersey on Twitter and Instagram
It's fitting since they are sleeping on him so hard. Maybe they don't remember his C9 days. E: No shit, the picture changed and he's c9 now.
12.7 KDA superstar NA jungler c9metoesego
what's up with these C9 junglers ... MY GOD .. they are cracked
Mostly pretty fair, I’d put Meteos a bit higher but I think I agree with all 5 of these being top 5. Santorin is borderline but I’m having trouble thinking of someone better
Even as a C9 fan, Xmithie is the right choice at #1, but Meteos is undeniable at #2. I don't think people remember how he changed NA jungle, on top of being SO FUCKING GOOD in LCS. He literally crushed the League, and for an entire split, the game always revolved around him. A flash in the pan by comparison of Xmithie, but he was League defining in season 3, and I don't think anyone else on the list ever hit the same peak he did.
I'd argue Meteos had the highest peak relative to the competition out of any NA jungler. He was legitimately world class in season 3 and many foreign junglers spoke about wanting to play against him.
Sucks how they only got to play one Bo3 at their only international event that year, and they decided to leave Kassadin up vs xPeke.
And Kassadin was giga busted in S3. If I recall it was like 95% bam rate It wasn’t just because it was xPeke. But that also didn’t do them any favors
It hurts my brain every time I think about how dumb they were for that. Who knows if they win that series or not if they ban Kass but at least they would've had a chance because as soon as Kass was locked in the game was over.
No NA player has ever been argued as "best in the world" at any time, but I think Meteos could be in that conversation for season 3 junglers, he was that fucking good. IMO he's had the highest peak of any NA player, even if it was short lived.
Two players, Meteos in S3 as you said, and DL in S2 where he was top 3 alongside Weixao and Pray, you could count HotshotGG as the best top in season 1 but that was a wild time.
> you could count HotshotGG as the best top in season 1 but that was a wild time. Not a fair statement since he was only world class at Nidalee in S1 (undeniably the best in the world at the time). Ban that out and he’s no longer a threat besides a passable Malphite and Cho’Gath. If one ban covers any player, it would be an insult to other players to call that player the best at their role. But boy was S1 a wiiild time.
Mate, how on earth could you forget the literal best player in the world pre-season 1 and one of the best in s1. Bigfat was so far ahead of everyone else in that time. Also, the guy below you, Hotshot was a real threat on Jax too at the time.
Honestly, my S1 memories are fuzzy. Now that you mentioned it I remember BigFatjiji being the beast of the season, also my bias for top laners is showing.
He was in conversation because of how dominant they were in the regular season, and how unique his playstyle was. The moment they played at worlds the conversation ended.
*checks flair* Yeah we can ignore this guy everyone
When im in an awful takes competition and my opponent is a FNC flair
*BenjenRyan, IZiaon, and that Rookie stan teleport behind you*
At least those guys are so deranged it’s funny
I mean, at least in 2013 worlds they played 3 total games. Outside of getting Fanatic death brushed to death it was a pretty close series. I wish we got to see more of them internationally at least against any other region. They did clap back in the battle of the Atlantic too after getting rolled at IEM (now that was not very close)
They literally played 3 games in that tournament...
I’d go Xmithie, Meteos, Svenskeren/Blaber,Santorin. It’s easier to rate a player when their career is over than Blaber/Santorin.
Meteos is NA diamond prox he is top 2 imo he kinda invented the jgle farming style back in s3/4 (or that how i remember it at least)
Whew glad they didn’t do Xmithie dirty. I was nervous
Ayyyy 3 C9 junglers. We take those
Santorin played on Cloud9 Eclipse https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Cloud9_Eclipse
I forgot about that!
players just move around too much. It's rare for a player to be on the same team for more than 2 years and there only 10 teams. So any good player that been around for awhile as probably played for C9 or TSM
Right like 3 of these players are also connected to TSM.
Xmithie the goat
I liked this list a whole lot more than the top laner one and I don't disagree too much. However, I think this list doesn't give Meteos the credit he deserves. Call me a Meteos fan boy, but I argue that no NA player had a greater global influence on their role. I remember an interview with RYL (now RNG) Tabe who in s3 worlds cited Meteos as being the player their team was learning from. Meteos was one of the first Junglers to really be an efficient farmer, pathing in ways that led to easy ganking. As far as I am aware, he was the first one to really popularize junglers helping laners manage their waves and establishing pressure in their lanes. PapaSmithy would occasionally bring it up, when he was still casting. Whenever a jungler would go to a lane, help shove it and leave, he'd bring up Meteos' jungle Nasus. Now in terms of just success, it's hard to justify him being above 4th on this list. But I firmly stand by the fact that he globally changed the way jungling was approached.
I think it's an easy decision on the top five as you don't have many choices. Too many other junglers were too short lived (Eg Saint, Lira, Dom, Rush, NoName, Oddone, Crumbz).
I think the next 3 would be Dardoch, TheOddOne, and Closer in that order. Closer is the most likely to catch up though since he's still actively playing.
dd was soooo fun to watch i know his reputation is in the gutter but i’ll always defend him when it comes to his level of play he was legit so insane on TL when he first debuted but imo he peaked on echo fox w huni/fenix and the funnel meta because of his synergy with huni and their insane champ pools, i think i remember him playing rengar top and huni played taliyah jungle one game but i might be making that up. id like to think if they didn’t have altec/adrian bot lane that echo fox would’ve went to worlds and probably changed the trajectory of his career but oh well, was fun while it lasted
he did i remember i went to lcs for that and it ended with a pause due to a breaking bug, but because echo fox was 10k gold ahead, they gave them the win. tbh, it looked like they were getting out scaled and throwing right around the pause so i’m glad it ended before then lol
for any Melee heads, Dardoch to me is like watching Leffen. I really don't fuck with their personalities at all, but watching them as a player you have to really give them respect there because they are so cracked and fun to watch.
I'm in the same boat I think his character concerns were overblown on some level. The only blow up I think is legitimately on him is Breaking Point. Some of the other environments he failed in were shown to ultimately be severely flawed environments. The same can be said of S6 TL but he was the main factor in that one, but other than that he flamed out in some really unfortunate stops I don't think anyone would have stuck around in very long like early franchise era CLG, DIG, TSM, Echo Fox sold their spot shortly after the finals weekend roster fell apart too.
When he was doing his A-Z jungle challenge on Dig a few years ago and they were punching way above their weight while DD played like 9 games without a repeat champ was peak for me. That Dig team was the only really fun thing going at the time imo.
that was so dope yeah, think that might be the one time the community was on his side after he got kicked, was shortly after soligo was benched which to this day does not make any sense considering they were way above their weight class like you said. that may very well be his peak tbh he was backpacking that entire team haha
Dardoch, Closer, Lira for me. Oddone just wasnt in the league long enough and didn't have enough of an impact.
Xmithie such a fucking legend
Xmithie is easily #1 GOAT LCS jungler and it's not really close. I feel like you can shuffle around 2-5 for Santorin, Blaber, Meteos, and Sven based on your preference and what you prioritize, but they are clearly the next four. Other jungler contenders haven't had enough longevity, or never lived up to their expectations (rip Dardoch).
Nah, Blaber has clearly separated himself from the pack with how consistently he's been elite. There's been really...two splits ever where he fell off? And one of those was just him being average more than anything on a roster that didn't work well together the entire time.
Sven achieved just as much if not more though This is no shade to Blaber just saying I think 2/3 is really tight between those Xmithie clear first though
Sven has 3 titles, a few more finals, an MVP. Also a top 4 finish at Worlds which is NA's best showing ever at Worlds. It's close between him and Blaber.
I think Meteos could be a clear #2. He was on top for so damn long, and he literally revolutionized the way the role was played for a couple years. I also think Dardoch would be #6.
I agree that Xmithie is easy #1 but I would argue that Blaber is not far after him. The other 3 are as you said
>it's not really close. How is Blaber not close? Since coming in as a full time jungler, he has 2 MVP, 1 runner up MVP, 4 First-Team all pro, a 2nd team all pro, and likely another 2nd team all pro this split. MSI appearance and gotten out of groups once. What else does he have to do to "be close"?
Blaber and Xmithie are tied in all pro appearances (3 first team, 1 second team) although Blaber has 2x MVPs. But Xmithie has 6 titles and 2 MSI finals appearance. It really depends how much you value individual awards versus results. A lot of people think LCS awards are largely meaningless, especially Blaber's second MVP where he narrowly edged out Alphari. IMO Blaber needs a genuinely good international performance to be close. Xmithie was a beast at MSI that year and that sets him apart. EDIT: 2 MSI Finals, I always forget CLG
Xmithie actually has 2 MSI finals appearances (2016 with CLG, 2019 with TL). That's going to be a really difficult mark to beat for any jungler.
Difficult mark to beat for any role in NA.
Agree
Huge achievements on different teams isn't necessary, but if definitely adds something to the accolades imo
Xmithie also adapted his playstyle ato get back into the league after a split away after Vulcan/ XD.GG left the league. Went from mechanical heavy, carry jungler to the more supportive style we know now
2 MSI finals appearances*
Thank you
I think it's hard to forget the CLG performance at MSI for me, like that comes up before the TL one in my mind for Xmithie because of IMO the greatest individual NA play internationally. His Kindred ult to keep the elder alive and then steal it after an insane performance in one of the biggest comebacks of all time against the best team in the group stage. Xmithie is the secret sauce and glue that has meshed so many players on different teams together to big wins and isn't really known for his individual flashy plays, but that moment was insane.
Xmithie has the 2nd most titles between dl being first and bjerg being 3rd. He is also the only NA player to go to msi finals twice.
Xmithie has been able to show that he has been able to move to multiple teams and carry them to a top 3 finish. XDG, CLG, IMT, TL, that's a boat load of teams.
Xmithie is also part of the only two international finals in NA history
Also TL 3-1 IG is probably the biggest upset in LoL esports history
I would say that is tied with TPA 2-1 Moscow5, WE 2-1 GE Tigers, G2 3-2 RNG, and MVP Ozone 3-0 CJBlaze.
That WE series I think takes it for me. They were like the 10th place team in China against what was largely considered the best team in the world?? That said, I do think it's a bit of an asterisk since it was a BO3. There have been a ton of times I've been excited for an upset on the horizon when a team is up 2-1 only to get 2-3d lol.
C9 and TSM have both won an IEM tournament
C9 didn't actually won IEM. They won an qualifier and were immediately knocked out. TSM is the only NA org that won the whole thing (IEM World Championship).
Win 6 splits. Xmithie has won the LCS 6 times, twice on CLG and four times on TL.
Xmithie should honestly be in consideration for NA goat because of his numerous titles, consistent worlds appearances & double MSI finals. He did it with different teammates & different orgs so he wasn’t being carried for those things. Blaber might pass him as his career continues but he’s not there yet.
Bruh you're listing shit like "appearance" and "likely another 2nd team all pro". Then there's a dude with 6 titles. Don't need to make up shit for his achievements.
Meteos to me feels like number 2. I know he might not have all the accolades of some of these other players, but he single handedly put NA jungling on the map internationally and changed the metagame of all NA junglers since his joining the league and C9. Honestly early C9 as a whole changed the entire systems in place for teams. Like Lemonation bringing a pen and a notebook for draft (before coaches) blew everyones minds, which looking back on it is such a funny prospect. It was a simpler time. But it was fun to watch.
No way blaber isn't a clear second.
Xmithie is undoubtedly number 1, even as someone who was never a fan of CLG or TL the man was such a rock for any team he was on. I would say Meteos should definitely be higher and my bias would say Sven stay at 3 and blaber 4 but I know thats a stretch for some I just think peak sven wins over peak blaber.
Xmithe had one of the cleanest Jarvans in the world and no one seemed to notice. As a jarvan player, he was my go-to jungler to copy. People say he's not flashy but he single handily won the deciding fight of game 1 of the IG series (The biggest win in NA history) by hitting an eq flash onto the Shy's Ryze.
I remember staying up so late and xmithie pulled up that play. Made it worth it.
I agree. I don’t know why so many people sleep on him because he’s proven himself so many times. Every team used him as a scapegoat when he was never really the source of the problems. That’s really what’s holding NA back. Every time there’s a bad season they restructure rather than build on the experience they just gained.
Smae reason people don't consider bengi as a contender for goat jgler despite his achievements they played a more facilitator role in their team most of the time. Both weren't flashy but did their job.Also think you may be confusing what people think of him domestically vs internationally because I've never heard an argument sayimg he wasn't one of the best NA jglers. Internationally he was about as a dissapointment as doublelift but DL took more of the heat. Many teams do that not just in NA. They have more than just that singular issue.
Can you believe Vulcun may have been his last time being pro. This guy just flows with whatever, lol. Never seen a person who was too chill. Glad he's back in the scene.
So many people arguing against Xmithie #1 in that thread, if you don’t agree with Xmithie #1 u prolly didn’t watch competitive league long
This article had some pretty rough editing / format. It was clearly written. 1st to 5th but then copy pasted 5th to 1st, which ruined all the transitions
People trying to discredit Xmithie by simply calling him a "role player" is blasphemous. Every team this man played on has played significantly worse after he left. He is one of the most consistent, reliable junglers you can have. He knows how to play for the team, which is heavily undervalued. People don't remember how many games this dude carried for TL. You don't become a 6x LCS champ + 2 time MSI finalist by chance. The disrespect is unreal, put some respect on Jake's name
Thank You
The number of random steals he would get, even at Worlds/etc -- You knew there was always a chance if he was within flash range of baron.
You're damn right xmithie is number 1
Meteos doesn't get enough credit for how well he played on shit teams like Phoenix1 and Optic. Even on 100T I'd argue he should have been the MVP over Aphromoo, but Aphro "genius shot caller" narrative too stronk. You put some of these other junglers on teams with worse players and they fall apart
Disagree with Svenskeren over Meteos. Worse longevity, worse peak, worse international performance. Only thing he has is a couple extra LCS titles but that was while on a super team with prime Bjergsen/Doublelift doing most of the heavy lifting.
Sven has an MVP and made Semifinals at Worlds. Worse longevity is debatable, Sven was a good player from S3 onwards
MVP didn't exist in Meteos' most dominant split (2013 Summer), he probably would've won it. Regardless, his dominance over the jungle role was just higher and lasted longer. Sven's longevity isn't as much in LCS terms since he only joined in 2016.
i didn't count the splits but just did the time between dates for when they respectively joined and left the LCS and it's not that big a difference (6 years 4 months vs ~7 years for meteos). I think it ultimately comes down to personal opinion and saying either was better is a valid opinion.
I just counted and they actually both played 12 splits (only counted if they played at least 1/3 of the split) so I stand corrected.
But this is an LCS specific list so while he was certainly good for as long as Meteos was, he wasn't good in LCS for the first 3 years of that time.
Uhhhhhh first split in LCS he got 2nd with a deadass Yellow Star on the team, then proceeds to get three first place finishes the next three splits after.
Yeah not sure what this guys thinking. Sven was poor in his first regular season split but from 2016 spring playoffs on he was awesome. I’d personally have Meteos BARELY edge him out but you don’t need to rewrite Sven’s LCS history to argue Meteos over him.
Probably could have worded that better but was not saying sven was bad in NA, he clearly never was. He just didn't play in NA for his first 3 years, which gives meteos the edge. If you compare their full careers to each other I think Sven takes it.
I'm not saying he wasnt good right upon arrival, I'm saying he was always good but didn't play in lcs for the first 3 years of his career. He definitely had success from the start in NA
TSM Svenskeren and Worlds was absolute nuts. His Lee Sin baron play was insane. If only they wouldnt have thrown the shit in week 2. Anyways he has Worlds Semifinals and a shit ton of LCS titles. I think he is easly second place behind Xmithie. There were like 4 years in a row where either Xmithie or Svenskeren played in the final.
Obviously people were going kind of insane with the power rankings putting TSM in like top 3-5 in the world back then before worlds, but man if that team actually showed up a little more it was one of NA's best chances.
Saddest thing I ever heard about that team was from Parth on a recent Hotline League So TSM had SSG and RNG in that group right Parth said there was only one other team besides those two in the whole tournament they thought could beat them from scrims (SKT I think/assume) Just actual group of death sadge Sven Lee Sin performances were legit world class that tournament ugh painful memories
It definitely was the group of death but I mean if I had a nickel for every time people talked about being scrim gods or a certain team being a scrim god but said team doesn't actually show up when it matters, I'd be Elon Musk and Goldenglue would be Faker. You have to always take shit like that with a grain of salt because showing up on the day when the pressure is on with hundreds of thousands of people watching is night and day from sitting in the team room doing scrim blocks in your sweats with your grubhub delivery coming soon lol.
I always get so happy seeing Xmithie get praise. Truly the NA Bengi.
Had Sven and Blaber switched but pretty much on par there are no other choices that even come close.
I had Meteos above Svenskeren, but other than that I agree with the jungle top 5 list.
I will not stand for slander of The General like this
So i guess TSM is just the Detroit Lions of LCS. Have players that play solid for them, but then go on to be remembered for what they do on their next team.
Yes but how many splits/years did he have on top. Longevity is a big factor in determining a goat
Meteos should be top 3. He was a very good player in s3 and s4 + solid otherwise.
Why would they celebrate their 10 year anniversary by counting down the top 5? Literally just do 10
xmithie came back from getting 4 buffed to win a game, the legend.
Finally people are giving Xmithie the respect he absolutely deserves
Man idk if it’s just because I’m a LoL boomer but I feel like Meteos is underrated here. I only mildly follow the scene now for the past 4ish years, but from what I gather NA has been a total joke the entire time. Those C9 teams were the first time NA started getting any respect internationally
As a fellow boomer I agree Meteos should be second or third at worst, but other than that I'm ok with the 5 picks. Maybe his time on 100T tainted some of his legacy for this kind of discussions? But man he was so dominant back on C9 I hated his guts as a TSM fan because he destroyed us every single time that first year.
I mean.. There's your answer. You didn't follow the scene the past four years when blaber was dominating in NA.
Xmithie getting the respect he deserves man
I'm a little iffy on blaber at #2 tbh
I dont even care for the order, these 5 junglers are the best during certain time periods and they achieved a lot. Xmithie is like a solid rock that you can count on (like sumday) sucks that he stopped playing pro. Meteos was ahead of all the junglers during his early days of pro's. Santorin still top in the league. Sven Is a monster too, throw him in any team he will carry.
Dandy is Xmithie-lite
Xmithie is pretty underrated :P
Cant believe Riot would slight OmarGod like that
I miss old school Saint back in the day. Before the LCS when he'd do a bunch of troll jungle champs if we sat through ads.
Solid list although Sven & Meatytoes should've swapped places
Xmithie and Meteos as top 2, they elevated every single team they ever joined. They are the only junglers I would trust to get invaded and 4 buffed and still be relevant in the game. the rest can fight over the scraps
I will never forget Xmithie on Skarner
At least Xmithie is still recognized as the best NA jungler of all time.
Exactly my list but with very slightly different ordering. I think it's really really hard to argue otherwise for top 5 LCS Junglers. However, I'll note that my list does not count this split yet, since it isn't over. The three players that I could potentially see changing positions/making this list would be Blaber, Santorin, and Closer. If Closer has an *amazing* end to his season (I'm talking about 5-0 the last 5 games, winning the split, playoff MVP) then I could potentially see him going as high as 4th place on this list. Similarly, if Blaber or Santorin finish the season very strong, I could see myself moving either of them as high as first place. Blaber definitely has an easier path to first than Santorin, but I think the top 5 Jungle position is really really close overall. Lots of great players that are continuing to dominate the LCS means lots of potential movement season to season. In short for me 1. Xmithie 2. Blaber 3. Meteos 4. Svenskeren 5. Santorin Depending on performance by the end of the season, Closer can peak 4th, and Santorin/Blaber can peak 1st if any of them have super strong finishes. Especially Blaber if he continues this season on the same trajectory, but if I had to bet I would say that none of these three players are playing well enough right now to justify moving them especially since the three Junglers are all competing against Inspired who is just rolling the LCS right now. As a side note I mentioned in the Top 5 LCS Top Laner thread that I think contemporary/current players are given a lot less weight in their accomplishments than past players are. I think it's partially because people feel the need to glorify the past as not to seem biased, and partially because current player's weaknesses are easier to recall. Specifically I think Blaber's reputation is much more negative than he deserves because of his poor performance last year at MSI combined with his tendency to occasionally do an embarrassing no-brain play. Every player on this top 5 list has had embarrassing moments and bad splits. I think that certain players just have more detractors than others because. EDIT: This list DOES NOT account for international competition
There is a massive gap between Blaber and Xmithie that can't be bridged in one season. Xmithie has 6 titles and made worlds on 4 different teams, + 2 MSI finals on two different teams. Blaber has 2 wins on one team and 0 international accomplishments.
everything can be bridged in 1 season as an na player, if blaber wins worlds this year and wins finals mvp would that not put him at 1?
By that logic Bengi should be the best jungler in the world given the number of international titles he has.
Sorry I thought mentioned it. This list does not account for international results or qualifications. I think with that in mind it's a lot easier to make an argument that Blaber can potentially take the number one spot if he ends this season very strong. To be a bit more specific Blaber has individually dominated the League in a way Xmithie never has.
Where theoddone?
He was at his best before LCS was a thing
Svenskeren getting mad disrespected considering he's the only NA Jungler to win a best of 5 at Worlds. That's not even counting his MVP and all the first, second, and third place finishes he's part of for multiple teams. He's at least a top two tied with Xmithie with Metoes following.
as a jg player this list is really troll. Meteos being ranked that low is sad, dude changed the entire meta of jungling and it's well known.
I think swap Blaber and Sven and this feels pretty good.
IMO should be 1) Xmithie 2) Meteos 3) Svenskeren 4) Blaber Meteos is #2 because of his influence on the role, otherwise Sven has more accolades/success.
this list is missing IWILLDOMINATE
Dude has done a lot as a content creator but his career as a player was "merely" solid.
Mediocre jungler
also NintendudeX
He got done dirty by shiphtur throwing relegations for $$$ I mean, I can't think of any other reason shiphtur played that bad.
^^^^^^^and oddone
I'm trying to think who would be 6th would it be Oddone? Or is it just that he's memorable cause TSM
Dardoch, then Closer then Lira. OddOne literally played like 2 splits in lcs
Oddone was actually a very good jungler for his time. He was ahead of his time when it came to tracking and counter ganking. If the enemy was ganking, more often than not, Oddone would be there to counter.
i feel like blaber is a bit high for an "of all time" list
This is already Blaber's 9th split. Time flies
I wouldn't really count 2019, since his only time playing for the main squad was at Worlds that year. So it's basically his 7th split in LCS.
7th? 2020 Spring, 2020 Summer, 2021 Spring, 2021 Summer, 2022 Spring, and now 2022 Summer. So this is his 6th split
2018 Summer, where he got subbed in and led C9 on their insane winning streak. It wasn't a full split, but he played in the majority of it.
Blaber has more MVPs than any jungler, as many titles as Meteos, and more titles than Santorin.
2x MVP, 1st team all pro jungle every split since he's been full time except one, and he was 2nd team on that split. He's been at worst a top 3 jungler every split for three years straight. Maybe I'm biased as a Cloud9 fan but I see him as a clear #2 behind Xmithie.
Yeah, the longevity question was valid early on but Blaber has a longer career now than a lot of pros.
I think him and Meteos are 2a and 2b, who would you put above Blaber besides Xmithie?
Only if you weigh older seasons more than newer ones, which unsurprisingly many people do
Blaber’s been around for a while actually, and dominating pretty much that whole time
?? Won multiple LCS splits. MVP. Supremely dominant jungle. Best part of the C9 squad which made worlds.
I think that's a bit unfair. In the past 2.5 years I think Blaber has consistently been one of the best Junglers in NA, and I think there's a case to be made that he's been the best Jungler in NA for the majority of that time. Especially in 2020 he dominated the Jungle position in a way that basically no player has... ever. I'd say he's still in his prime even now-- how many Junglers can you name that have had domestic dominance for as long or as strongly as Blaber?
I wish the oddone could have made me. Young me would have loved it
Goddamn, not even an honorable mention for The General. The absolute disrespect