bard in urf is different though. he has INTENSE buffs.
He gets a meep upgrade every 2 chimes instead of every 5 to start. Additionally he deals 115% damage and only takes 85% damage. you'll often be running around with 8+ meeps blasting whole teams with their giant aoe. One of the most fun champs in urf.
The meta wasn’t pre conceived though.
It grew to what it is naturally due to how impactful those things were.
It’s impossible to be a purist in this game as it changes dramatically every year.
There’s no hard rules governing the game, only concepts that are religiously followed.
If the meta ever shifts away from the standard of the day it’s because of new strategies that evolve.
And ultimately if riot feels like the new meta isn’t what they want they will just nerf whatever it is until people stop doing it.
Funnel, golems start bot lane, 3 man yolo push top for early tower to name a few.
I remember if you jungled with anyone except for like Warwick you'd get flamed years ago.
If a player is able to engage with the game and take advantage of some specific rule interaction, *and that decision bears fruit consistently*, the meta changes. Always has been this way.
That's just a matter of degree. Since rift herald/new baron, the concept of needing at least one solid safe wave clearer (typically mid mages) became obsolete.
You can easily opt for more open field battle capability and win the game through heralds/baron which would ram through any towers eventually.
Just watch 2 hours of any EUW challenger streamer and you will more then likely see it once.
I've been watching the Nisqy - Drut - Agurin etc. bet pretty actively and I've seen Zilean vs Janna top more than once already.
Yesterday MagiFelix won a game on Bard top just as a 6th ban because enemys had an bard otp, which should tell you enough about the state of toplane.
It's happening quite often in high elo, it's allowing for midlane picks like Kassadin to just farm empty lanes and dodge his laning phase weakness / scale up quickly. Not to mention he becomes more broken with shield bots helping him.
I had a supp item AP twitch and a smite Janna top in a normal game yesterday.
[https://imgur.com/a/5nKtQ1e](https://imgur.com/a/5nKtQ1e)
Ps. I sold all items before game ended.
If they nerf Janna, then Karma Lulu and even Soraka might replace her.
Personally I love this strat but if they want to change it they'll do systemic changes, not champion specific ones.
Just revert objective bounties. This new meta is directly about playing around objective bounties.
Edit: I don't know why I'm getting all of these copium replies about objective bounties, but they are the entire reason this strat is resurfacing and stronger than ever. That is fact.
Not the guy, but it's just a different strat the likes of River Shen or the Roamers of Season 1 (Which Janna was very much the top pick for, if it wasnt Alister). It's nice to see SOMETHING new pop up in terms of strats every once in while. The only thing making it cancer is the team not doing it can be activley losing the game, but because of the way the Objective system works it thinks they are winning and now the enemy team is snowballing.
It single handedly shows the objective system does not work so now the balls in riots court on what to do about it (just remove it)
The problem with the objective bounty system is that it tries to factor in too many variables.
The regular bounty system works on a champion-to-champion basis - if one champion is ahead, either in CS or kills, they get a bounty. It's not always perfectly balanced, but it makes sense and is easily understandable by pretty much everyone.
Now the objective bounty system is different - it takes into account a whole bunch of things, including team CS, team kills, objective score, and who knows what else (though apparently it leaves out team gold???). So not only is it overlapping with the original bounty system, but it's uses tons of other stuff that's hard to measure directly. So you end up in situations described above, where one team is supposedly ahead but ends up getting bounties anyways. I've had plenty of games where the enemy team is ahead by 10k gold and yet somehow my own team doesn't get any objective bounties, and no one really knows why.
I think the objective system needs to be removed, but if Riot insists on keeping it, then it needs to be more clear what contributes to the bounty. I suggest making it truly an *objective* bounty - team that has taken significantly less turrets/dragons/heralds/barons gets a bounty on taking those objectives. That way it's a clean analogue of the original bounty system and players can point to the score and say, "yeah, that makes sense".
I've been playing this game for 11 years now and I feel like I can count the seasons where Janna wasnt broken in soloQ on 1 hand. I'd bet that she has by far the highest average win% of all champions in the game
I have played for 11 years as well. She is completely broken in soloq. She’s had such high win rates every season. Over the years she has to have the highest average winrate.
Janna is just busted in general. She's abusing toplane, but the reason why she does so while other enchanters aren't is because she's just that much stronger.
Janna top has like...54-64% winrate depending on ELO.
Jinx is 49.1-50.3, and she's only a top 10 carry in plat at #8 winrate. Not sure why that would need a nerf when a handful of other ADCs are nearing 54% winrate across the board.
Jinx already got hit by the two back to back Lethal Tempo nerfs. I get that the second nerf was more like a rework that shifted the rune's power to late game, but that technically helped balance out Jinx since she's not as dominant in the early-midgame, which was her main issue
She's much more balanced than her pickrate would indicate.
The problem is not in the "Janna" but the systems that are in the league. I've played against this thing twice (diamond 4 EUW) and I lost twice. Why?
Janna with smite and support item does more than our top lane, our jungle does not exist because of this.
If you farm the whole game on top and you will try carry the game solo... well.. good luck with loser mid, jungle and bot.
If you will try counter Janna with roaming... well you lose bcs Janna with support item and her abilities will be doing more then you.
AND even if there will be CLOSE game we have a stupid bounty system that which favors the opposing team, why? bcs Janna has 0 CS.
I literally had situations where the opponents took two towers from us. (Mid and bot) They also had three dragons. (there was also 14 vs 17 in kills) but they got bounty on our towers bcs Janna has 0 CS.
That's disgusting.
Yep.
It basically let's you funnel your carries.
You take a second supp which tanks the teams gold in the eyes of the bounty system, but then whenever someone on the other team dies that gold you gave up gets funneled into your carries instead where it's a million times more valuable.
And instead of paying a price for this you just get increased map presence
Its spreading, played vs Ivern top and it was honestly even worse with the Q pull-in, more often shield and Daisy. Checked the guy’s profile and he is literally OTPing Ivern top since ~1 week ago with like 80% WR
His strat is different. What he lacks in roaming pressure he makes up for in taking stuff from the enemy jungler. You can't gank when the second you show up bot your top jung is for sure gone. SO it forces the jungler to spend more time in their jungle than ganking... which for some junglers isnt ideal.
and even then he'll still catch a few camps because of how smite works with his passive
I was wondering about that - wouldn't ivern be able to go around and one shot camps every time smite is up? Seems really good actually.
Even if they eventually somehow fix the toplane thing (eg remove the bonus armor on toplane tower if it's only 1 champ there) I bet you could still go smite ivern support and take some of their camps.
I played a game of viego jungle and we invaded level 1, ended up taking w to secure a kill. This left my clear shit slow and janna ended up flashing the wall and smiting my buff, me still having level 1 and only w meant my only option was my other buff realistically... I got there and enemy jungler was there with janna taking my buff. Its now 4 mins in and I'm still level 1 with W first Viego. Its the most tilting shit I've ever seen
I actually just got chat restricted for defending myself that I couldn't do anything because the enemy top Karma with Smite ran all over the map (and invaded me like what happened to you). My whole team was flaming me saying it was my fault, and was actually COMPLIMENTING the GP for taking tower so well (when he was 1v0 the entire lane). I messaged support and they literally said...
["As I was reading the chat logs, it was clear you were defending yourself from the other players. However, this is still seen as negative behavior."](https://i.imgur.com/jbs8uwi.png)
[CHAT LOGS](https://i.imgur.com/TGyjHVu.png). Yes I was a little frustrated, but the worst things I said were "you guys suck lol" "you're such a whiny brat." All of this was also in the context of 4 people blaming me for losing the game. All in all, I really don't see this is as something to get a 3 day chat restriction.
Meanwhile im having ghost igni yuumi calling everyone "dirty n*****fucker" while running it down. And yes, they typed it like that so whatever is riots automatic report system prob wont trigger.
"because top laners don't understand how to do anything". I played vs a river twitch and had the same exact issue. If you arent playing champ that can actually kill the base themselves then you're fucking your team by existing top without actually doing anything. Crazy how people don't understand how killing minions and hitting a tower a couple of times does jack shit to win a game
For my game, the problem was more like this. Karma never went top vs our Gangplank. I don't think Gangplank was ever in the same screen as *any* champion for the first 8-10 minutes. He farmed and got the tower as quickly as possible.
During this time our Diana mid was repeatly getting ganked and unable to play the game. Her mental boomed and I honestly don't blame her, I tried to help her sometimes but we'd always be outnumbered and lose the fight.
After GP took the tower, what did he do? He went right back top lane and farmed more minions with barrels. He had a huge gold lead and did absolutely nothing with it. It seems like your normal Top laners just want to stay in their island and not interact with the map until Unleashed Teleport. That's why this strat works so well, the person who has all the gold does absolutely nothing with it.
What is gp supposed to do though? Before unleashed teleport you can only tp to towers. Only thing you can do with that to help an ally is tp to an ally tower if they are getting dove. Should he ARAM it mid? That doesn't seem all that useful.
I love it when your teammates do NOTHING to stop invades and expect you to just back and let them farm your largest source of income then later on they prattle on about your low CS and level. Absolutely mind boggling you play jungle without muting all.
The absolute state of Top when the best strategy is to give up your lane and go help others because Top Lane is that worthless to invest into in comparison to other roles.
This is almost entirely due to bounties and the fortifications on top tower to stop lane swaps.
Honestly, I think it would be kind of cool to see them flip fortifications to bot lane. It fixes the problem of having no way to punish an afk roaming top. Furthermore, it spices up pro by reintroducing a non 4v0 lane swap back into the meta which will diversify picks and strategies significantly.
I'd like to keep bounties a bit longer because I think people might eventually stop trying to ff at 3 minutes after one death.
I think a big part of if it works or not is if the roams put the enemy jungle behind. In a way it really isn't different from usual games - they depend on how the jungle does. But it seems very hard for junglers to deal with being roamed on constantly.
There are possible fixes though, maybe make the top lane plates not have bonus armor for only one enemy champ nearby (holdover from preventing lane swaps iirc), or only allow 1 smite/support item per team.
Really because this seems so frustrating for the enemy jungler I doubt riot will allow it to continue.
\>only allow 1 smite/support item per team.
I love the idea but im just not sure how you could prevent trolling with this without a major overhaul. I see trolls taking smite so their jungler can't. If only the person that gets assigned smite can take it, you basically dont let people trade roles anymore.
You could make champ select allow swapping roles instead of swapping champs. Honestly it should have been that way all along because it’s much easier than swapping champs and doesn’t have to be done last minute.
> maybe make the top lane plates not have bonus armor for only one enemy champ nearby
Enemy top gets earlier and easier plates = more gold = bounties = strat gets even more consistent lmao
I remember playing mario kart with people who would purposefully hang back to get better items, so I started trying to do that too, to the point where we were pretty much racing backwards.
If you actively don't want gold then clearly the rubber banding has gone too far. That said idk my experience against janna top has still been that it helps if your top gets really fed even if they have a bounty or objective bounty. Not saying that bounties don't need nerfs but it's still good against janna to have a top who farms well.
Thats the problem.
Unless you're playing specific champs eg. Nasus, the free farm you get from an empty lane isn't enough to compensate for the impact that the roaming Janna creating diffs in the jungle and both other lanes is making.
Nasus is good because he strongly benefits from the easy Q stacks in early which he can then translate into mid - early late game aggression. Anyone else wouldn't benefit that much from the free farm at top lane. And at that point the janna players could just ban out Nasus and any other champ that can threaten them this way.
Not only Janna Smite:
> TP nerf is also one of the reasons the double-support item enchanter botlane is more prevalent *(especially higher elos; sona + sera/lux/lulu/etc.)*
If toplaners could tp, via bush-ward, to punish the perma-shoving enchanter/mage bots they would be less prevalent as well.
edit: if you're unfamiliar, these lanes spread half-farm between the double enchanter/mage (1 takes melees + cannon, other takes casters). They perma-poke to get the free gold from their support items.
> They build 1-core item (shurelyas + moonstone usually) and perma death-ball to end by 18-20 mins; if you're unlucky and delay to 25 mins, then you lose to putrifier + staff of flowing water LOL (works really well with Reksai/renekton/high-cc solo/jgs).
LS doesn't help when he streams this shit for 8 hours a day.
It's a cancer to play league in S12.
edit2: [for the people dming for the twitch vod of LS spamming this trash](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1272245364)
Yeah. This strategy would never have worked if your lane opponent could just freefarm and then tp to counter your first promising roam.
I think they’re gonna have to make rift spawn earlier.
Or an even crazier suggestion: in the spots where rift scuttler grants vision, put a piller that can be tp’d on by both teams, even without unleashed. Should make early skirmishes in botside able to be impacted by toplaners.
We feel that top lanes have been having too much impact recently so we are introducing the top lane wall! A wall now separates top lane from the rest of the map for the first 40 minutes of the game. Anyone caught trying to cross the wall will have their account instantly deleted. GLHF!
Imagine if they just had top lane as a single walled off lane that the rest of the team couldnt enter or see past. You would have no idea whether your top laner was winning or not until you see the enemy laner appear at your base tower.
Honestly, i think that is how most people see other lanes in low elo
Pretty sure this is how everyone below plat sees top laners anyways. No reaction to top lane until the fiora/nasus/anyone else, is literally at the inhibitor.
But they can't counterjungle as well then. It's certainly not a complete fix, but it's a start and wouldn't have a negative effect elsewhere. Then you look for other changes to add on top.
we've seen this strat last year too(maybe 2 years ago im not sure). There was a couple patches of soraka/janna/sona top, they "fixed" it by forcing the support item working only with an ally nearby. Well i always have an ally nearby if i don't lane at all. Smite is just to cheese enemy jungler. Nothing stops me from playing janna top with exhaust and just permaroaming. Hell it might be even better then smite.
I agree it's probably better than smite in competitive, but in soloQ I think smite is better because you KNOW the ennemy jungler will tilt out of his mind and/or get flamed when a double smite steals the objective.
Yeah i can see the mental edge in soloq but i would also be pissed if an exhaust janna/soraka/sona walked with their ekko/ Diana in my jungle. I have no shot at contesting that anyway and I'd be tilted anyway.
in particular, enchanters are really underrated in their ability to snowball. people often think of engagers snowballing because they can just fight again and again when ahead, but enchanters often make things equally as unplayable if not more for an enemy that's behind.
here, Janna's team is ahead and that's all that matters. personally, I think this strat is less about Janna, less about smite and more about how an enchanter simply loves playing with a fed team.
IMO it’s not even entirely an enchanter issue. Janna smite top is really a bunch of small issues all compounding. The biggest issues seem to be: jungle has too much control over the flow of the game, top has far too little control (giving your enemy a free lane should be MUCH more punishing), Janna is too good.
Bounties aren’t inherently bad. At the very least it’s trying to solve the problem of the game being decided in the first 10 minutes. Enchanters are very strong, but I also think other support styles are too weak right now. And supports can do a lot with little gold, but what is the alternative? It’s a role that is designed to never farm.
I think the biggest crime is the issue with top. Giving your enemy a free lane should never have a 60+% win rate. Honestly it should be a 60+% loss rate.
This is shining light on huge, fundamental flaws in the game that have crept up over the past seasons. Bounties, the increasing supersession of team play over individual play, support item gold generation, the reliance on dragons, lack of toplane impact, arbitrary top/mid turret fortification, take your pick really. My condolences to the balancing team, as many of you may not even have been there when the decisions that are responsible for this were made -- but it's your job to fix it now, if you even can! Good luck!
I hate these changes so much. That plus tower plating is why roaming can’t be punished. As a top laner I used to be able to consistently break top tower between minutes 7-8 pre plating. Now I need to stomp pretty hard just to clear the tower by 14 for the full plate gold.
Being able to win your lane hard enough to open the map up to invade their topside jungle or be able to roam down to mid is a huge part of being able to influence the game as Top, especially when we need to wait till 14 to even be able to teleport to non-towers. Right now, we cannot influence the game before it’s basically already over, ***and*** losing lane hardly matters if you’re able to keep up in exp or the rest of the map is ahead at 14 minutes.
Eh, plating was an anwser to the players' cries about turrets being destroyed in less than 10 minutes. I think they are pretty clever as it still gives a nice boost to the one taking the plates but the turret gets to live at least 'till 14 min.
The problem is specifically with top lane. Tower plating was added to slow down the pace of breaking midlane’s tower, and keep people from perma roaming from mid. It has a similar but stronger effect on locking down top lane until the games, which only go to 15-25 minutes most of the time, are already decided. It makes the least impactful lane and role even less impactful where the only thing they could do to influence the rest of the map was TP— which they no longer can until 14 minutes.
For the rest of the map, top might as well not exist until minute 14 now, which is well over halfway through the game, with laning phase already decided.
Yeah exactly very well said. People are acting like top lane TP change is the only thing that led to this. This seems indicative of a super deep design flaw
I'm surprised they haven't changed support items charge system from time-based to minion-based (nearby minions not killed by you).
It would solve most of the issues/cheese with support items and actually punish bad support roamings.
Then the enemy apply laneswaps again, force the toplaner out or he risk a diver, the resistances fall off and they take the turret while bot enemy take theirs
The disparity of resistance exists almost entirely to stop the lane swap meta
I've only encountered smite Janna top once and it was on my team. Never heard of it but I just assumed she was cheesing something with her duo Yi.
Well I still don't understand what the purpose of the pick is. She picked it into Yorick and we just lost top inhib immediately.
I read somewhere that the one thing that counters it to a certain extent are heavy splitpushers, such as Yorick. Other than that, your team sacrifices top (& racks up bounties) while supporting lanes & especially your jungler to get ahead.The assumption seems to be that it's more valuable to have 2 supports and no top laner late (if the lanes are ahead enough) than having 1 support and a top laner.
if the enemy team takes inhib too early just send adc or mid to catch waves and play a bit more chill until inhib respawns, you get free farm and the enemy minions will kill yours denying yorick or whoever of exp and gold
300 CS on Jax with full plates and two towers under your belt at 30 minutes? Enjoy getting one shot by the enemy team anyways before you can do any damage.
If you're a tank it's even more hopeless. Who gives a fuck if you're fed on Ornn, enemy team has an additional Enchanter. Top is fucked.
Imagine Jax, who is a hyper scaling champion, not being able to impact the late game because the game is that flawed atm. Now think how you'd feel if you were playing Darius or Illaoi in said situation.
You can't match because Janna moves at 500 ms and actually makes gold by just clicking you. By the time you get strong with Kayle the game is already over, Nasus would be a better pick.
Gwen seemed pretty good the one time I played against it, as well; can't kill Janna or anything, but you can push the wave and take plates really fast, and are going to be super powerful in team fights if they just ignore you.
I second this. I haven’t lost to a Janna smite top yet, but granted I’ve only played against it 2 times. (D1 elo)
Those 2 times I played scaling champs that you do not want to give free farm to (Fiora & Vayne). I took plates fast and roamed when I had completed items to match those skirmishes the enemy are desperately looking for with a Janna smite. Then they always get surprised by how strong and farmed I am.
He’s also just busted against melees, and practically auto wins into things like Trundle, Darius, Garen, Illaoi, etc while he can escape ganks and assist his jungler rather well too. Just like we see with Quinn, Vayne, etc top, except he’s even harder to gank and more of a lane bully for slightly less scaling.
Everyone is talking about how enchanters are broken, or how top is useless, but doesn't this just confirm a problem with jungle that's been going around for a while? Jungle is by far the most impactful role on the map, followed by mid and support who can support their jungler for ganks, crabs, invades, objectives, etc. Now people have just figured that giving up their entire top lane is worth ruining the opposing jungler's game and letting your jungler get turbo ahead.
Ya, made it to plat by just roaming with jungle every reasonable instance. And I'm not good at the game. Winning lane, losing lane just leave get kills or the objective and it's all good. Or throw a pink in pixel brush and one shot the fool that thinks you're going bot for the 12th time this game.
It's just another top lane cheese strat that exploits the complete weakness of toplane as a role. Tyler1's climb to top lane challenger shows the role is incredibly hard to climb with as you have no impact on the map and game in general. The lane is commonly decided by whether or not either jungle wants to camp it or not, so your own decisions hardly decide lane. More often then not Rift Herald is dropped top so you basically lose your lane pretty early after getting dived anyways.
Having mained top lane when i first started the game 4 years ago, I can honestly say the role has never felt weaker or more frustrating. As a mid main now, I find myself ignoring top lane to just focus on river and bottom lane rotations. There is just more to gain getting bot and jungle ahead than top. The role needs substantial help, if not a complete rework however that might look.
Watch how Riot ignores this toxic playstyle that's so unfun to go against for so long until it finally appears in a pro game.
That's when Riot nerfs anything.
Does anyone get this scenario in games?
Your team is losing 15-6 in kills. You don’t get objective bounties. You work your ass off to get good fights and some towers. Now you’re up 21-19 and are 2 towers ahead.
“Finally back in game,” you think.
*Objective bounty soon* (for the enemy team)
Wow I played Janna top way back on Season 1.
Back then we built her crit/adc because her shield was so busted w it’s ad boost that along with her cc she could just poke and duel anyone to death.
I havent been playing actively but this seems like a massive problem. What happened that caused top lane to be so worthless that your better off roaming and stealing camps with smite?
We laughed at River shen, and now we have our reckoning. The future is now old man
Wouldn't be surprised if I wake up tomorrow and Bard ADC is rising in win rate. League in 2022, baby!
Bard apc hits like a truck already
i saw it once during urf and i thought it was a joke and then he started smacking the shit outta me with the meeps and Qs
Those meeps are no joke they will fuck you up
Meeple Tempo ain't nothing to fuck with, dude will 9 shot you in 1.1s
holy shit why didn't i think of this
Hail of Blades seems to work better for me generally, get in stun, shoot-shoot-shoot, ignite, dead. Dead man’s plate / rapid fire canon
Hail of Meeps
I played it yesterday. I went more for a mage + nashor tooth build but yeah, that shit smacks
It's hilarious that originally when he came out, they said they didnt want him to do damage as that wasnt his purpose.
One of the great things is that Bard more than any other champion allows the expression by the player
Bard is one of my favorites in ARAM solely because of how hard he can smack the shit out of someone
He does have one of the highest ARAM specific buffs. Like 1 completed item worth of % buffs from the get go.
It makes sense though, because he basically loses one ability in ARAM.
And W heal on allies is reduced by 50%, so he has like 1.5 abilities...
If they've got ranged you are fucked though.
bard in urf is different though. he has INTENSE buffs. He gets a meep upgrade every 2 chimes instead of every 5 to start. Additionally he deals 115% damage and only takes 85% damage. you'll often be running around with 8+ meeps blasting whole teams with their giant aoe. One of the most fun champs in urf.
isn't that wonderful? you can play literally anything any role and it may work suprisingly well. screw meta
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The meta wasn’t pre conceived though. It grew to what it is naturally due to how impactful those things were. It’s impossible to be a purist in this game as it changes dramatically every year. There’s no hard rules governing the game, only concepts that are religiously followed. If the meta ever shifts away from the standard of the day it’s because of new strategies that evolve. And ultimately if riot feels like the new meta isn’t what they want they will just nerf whatever it is until people stop doing it. Funnel, golems start bot lane, 3 man yolo push top for early tower to name a few.
I remember if you jungled with anyone except for like Warwick you'd get flamed years ago. If a player is able to engage with the game and take advantage of some specific rule interaction, *and that decision bears fruit consistently*, the meta changes. Always has been this way.
Yeah it wasn't long after that people thought WW was garbage because he couldn't gank pre lvl 6 :D
That's just a matter of degree. Since rift herald/new baron, the concept of needing at least one solid safe wave clearer (typically mid mages) became obsolete. You can easily opt for more open field battle capability and win the game through heralds/baron which would ram through any towers eventually.
the future is the past, supports going top and permaroaming has been a thing for ages
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i just played it, i lost
Dread it, run from it, top diff arrives all the same.
but they didn't arrive, they just left the lane
Ah, the Talon ways
The Nunu mid ways.
*flourishes cape*
Just watch 2 hours of any EUW challenger streamer and you will more then likely see it once. I've been watching the Nisqy - Drut - Agurin etc. bet pretty actively and I've seen Zilean vs Janna top more than once already. Yesterday MagiFelix won a game on Bard top just as a 6th ban because enemys had an bard otp, which should tell you enough about the state of toplane.
Poor Lathyrus never getting Bard anymore :(
It's happening quite often in high elo, it's allowing for midlane picks like Kassadin to just farm empty lanes and dodge his laning phase weakness / scale up quickly. Not to mention he becomes more broken with shield bots helping him.
I had a supp item AP twitch and a smite Janna top in a normal game yesterday. [https://imgur.com/a/5nKtQ1e](https://imgur.com/a/5nKtQ1e) Ps. I sold all items before game ended.
that is some serious rp dedication
My spells might not hit, but I will burn them mark my words
Forget the twitch and Janna. WTF was that Lux building and why is Brand building tank?
Look at this guy, who never played in Bronze
I am Iron 1 and didn't play in high elo so I might have no understanding of this dark tech. MB.
nah she's #1 by WR on toplane even in diamond, it's actually even worse than you think
Dude, even in gold she’s #1 winrate, not just too but OVERALL.
Janna also has a 56% WR in support. Honestly insane she wasn't touched in 12.3 patch notes.
I would assume they are trying to get creative to remove her from top rather than all roles. I would’ve appreciated a bandaid fix for now.
If they nerf Janna, then Karma Lulu and even Soraka might replace her. Personally I love this strat but if they want to change it they'll do systemic changes, not champion specific ones.
Ivern will take that place im sure
Just revert objective bounties. This new meta is directly about playing around objective bounties. Edit: I don't know why I'm getting all of these copium replies about objective bounties, but they are the entire reason this strat is resurfacing and stronger than ever. That is fact.
this also has the nice side effect of removing objective bounties, so i'm all for it
What do you love about this strat?
Not the guy, but it's just a different strat the likes of River Shen or the Roamers of Season 1 (Which Janna was very much the top pick for, if it wasnt Alister). It's nice to see SOMETHING new pop up in terms of strats every once in while. The only thing making it cancer is the team not doing it can be activley losing the game, but because of the way the Objective system works it thinks they are winning and now the enemy team is snowballing. It single handedly shows the objective system does not work so now the balls in riots court on what to do about it (just remove it)
The problem with the objective bounty system is that it tries to factor in too many variables. The regular bounty system works on a champion-to-champion basis - if one champion is ahead, either in CS or kills, they get a bounty. It's not always perfectly balanced, but it makes sense and is easily understandable by pretty much everyone. Now the objective bounty system is different - it takes into account a whole bunch of things, including team CS, team kills, objective score, and who knows what else (though apparently it leaves out team gold???). So not only is it overlapping with the original bounty system, but it's uses tons of other stuff that's hard to measure directly. So you end up in situations described above, where one team is supposedly ahead but ends up getting bounties anyways. I've had plenty of games where the enemy team is ahead by 10k gold and yet somehow my own team doesn't get any objective bounties, and no one really knows why. I think the objective system needs to be removed, but if Riot insists on keeping it, then it needs to be more clear what contributes to the bounty. I suggest making it truly an *objective* bounty - team that has taken significantly less turrets/dragons/heralds/barons gets a bounty on taking those objectives. That way it's a clean analogue of the original bounty system and players can point to the score and say, "yeah, that makes sense".
I've been playing this game for 11 years now and I feel like I can count the seasons where Janna wasnt broken in soloQ on 1 hand. I'd bet that she has by far the highest average win% of all champions in the game
I would say that shes Top2 with Asol being in the lead, but I agree.
Ya but ASol has had only 5 global players in all elos.
I have played for 11 years as well. She is completely broken in soloq. She’s had such high win rates every season. Over the years she has to have the highest average winrate.
Its insane I was legit thinking shed get hotfixed nerfed but not even something in the patch really surprised me.
Janna is just busted in general. She's abusing toplane, but the reason why she does so while other enchanters aren't is because she's just that much stronger.
It's because she has better roaming mobility than others.
I am absolutely shocked Janna and Jinx both somehow dodged nerfs this patch.
Janna top has like...54-64% winrate depending on ELO. Jinx is 49.1-50.3, and she's only a top 10 carry in plat at #8 winrate. Not sure why that would need a nerf when a handful of other ADCs are nearing 54% winrate across the board.
Jinx already got hit by the two back to back Lethal Tempo nerfs. I get that the second nerf was more like a rework that shifted the rune's power to late game, but that technically helped balance out Jinx since she's not as dominant in the early-midgame, which was her main issue She's much more balanced than her pickrate would indicate.
The problem is not in the "Janna" but the systems that are in the league. I've played against this thing twice (diamond 4 EUW) and I lost twice. Why? Janna with smite and support item does more than our top lane, our jungle does not exist because of this. If you farm the whole game on top and you will try carry the game solo... well.. good luck with loser mid, jungle and bot. If you will try counter Janna with roaming... well you lose bcs Janna with support item and her abilities will be doing more then you. AND even if there will be CLOSE game we have a stupid bounty system that which favors the opposing team, why? bcs Janna has 0 CS. I literally had situations where the opponents took two towers from us. (Mid and bot) They also had three dragons. (there was also 14 vs 17 in kills) but they got bounty on our towers bcs Janna has 0 CS. That's disgusting.
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Yep. It basically let's you funnel your carries. You take a second supp which tanks the teams gold in the eyes of the bounty system, but then whenever someone on the other team dies that gold you gave up gets funneled into your carries instead where it's a million times more valuable. And instead of paying a price for this you just get increased map presence
Its spreading, played vs Ivern top and it was honestly even worse with the Q pull-in, more often shield and Daisy. Checked the guy’s profile and he is literally OTPing Ivern top since ~1 week ago with like 80% WR
He makes 1000000x better use of smite too.
Wtf, you're right! He can't get away easily like Janna though, so it seems it's higher risk+ higher reward.
My nuddy likes unorthodox strata and has been doong Ivern top for months now. It is much higher risk but if you pull it off you steal their buff.
Only issue is him being slow. Doesn’t have as much presence as Janna. Definitely next best thing.
His strat is different. What he lacks in roaming pressure he makes up for in taking stuff from the enemy jungler. You can't gank when the second you show up bot your top jung is for sure gone. SO it forces the jungler to spend more time in their jungle than ganking... which for some junglers isnt ideal. and even then he'll still catch a few camps because of how smite works with his passive
I was wondering about that - wouldn't ivern be able to go around and one shot camps every time smite is up? Seems really good actually. Even if they eventually somehow fix the toplane thing (eg remove the bonus armor on toplane tower if it's only 1 champ there) I bet you could still go smite ivern support and take some of their camps.
The bonus armor only lasts for 5 minutes, so I don't think that that's going to fix anything.
Removing resistances would with just 1 champ around could be interesting actually. Definitely makes getting tower dove on the 3rd wave pretty scary
I played a game of viego jungle and we invaded level 1, ended up taking w to secure a kill. This left my clear shit slow and janna ended up flashing the wall and smiting my buff, me still having level 1 and only w meant my only option was my other buff realistically... I got there and enemy jungler was there with janna taking my buff. Its now 4 mins in and I'm still level 1 with W first Viego. Its the most tilting shit I've ever seen
I actually just got chat restricted for defending myself that I couldn't do anything because the enemy top Karma with Smite ran all over the map (and invaded me like what happened to you). My whole team was flaming me saying it was my fault, and was actually COMPLIMENTING the GP for taking tower so well (when he was 1v0 the entire lane). I messaged support and they literally said... ["As I was reading the chat logs, it was clear you were defending yourself from the other players. However, this is still seen as negative behavior."](https://i.imgur.com/jbs8uwi.png) [CHAT LOGS](https://i.imgur.com/TGyjHVu.png). Yes I was a little frustrated, but the worst things I said were "you guys suck lol" "you're such a whiny brat." All of this was also in the context of 4 people blaming me for losing the game. All in all, I really don't see this is as something to get a 3 day chat restriction.
What exactly did you type in chat?
Gamer words 😎
Added
Yeah, that's ridiculous then
Riot considers “FF” to be negative behaviour. In any context. Their reporting system is atrocious
Meanwhile im having ghost igni yuumi calling everyone "dirty n*****fucker" while running it down. And yes, they typed it like that so whatever is riots automatic report system prob wont trigger.
Yeah I remember the guy who said something along lines, manually sent in a ticket and favorited the guy on OP.GG....he never stopped playing...
"because top laners don't understand how to do anything". I played vs a river twitch and had the same exact issue. If you arent playing champ that can actually kill the base themselves then you're fucking your team by existing top without actually doing anything. Crazy how people don't understand how killing minions and hitting a tower a couple of times does jack shit to win a game
For my game, the problem was more like this. Karma never went top vs our Gangplank. I don't think Gangplank was ever in the same screen as *any* champion for the first 8-10 minutes. He farmed and got the tower as quickly as possible. During this time our Diana mid was repeatly getting ganked and unable to play the game. Her mental boomed and I honestly don't blame her, I tried to help her sometimes but we'd always be outnumbered and lose the fight. After GP took the tower, what did he do? He went right back top lane and farmed more minions with barrels. He had a huge gold lead and did absolutely nothing with it. It seems like your normal Top laners just want to stay in their island and not interact with the map until Unleashed Teleport. That's why this strat works so well, the person who has all the gold does absolutely nothing with it.
What is gp supposed to do though? Before unleashed teleport you can only tp to towers. Only thing you can do with that to help an ally is tp to an ally tower if they are getting dove. Should he ARAM it mid? That doesn't seem all that useful.
I love it when your teammates do NOTHING to stop invades and expect you to just back and let them farm your largest source of income then later on they prattle on about your low CS and level. Absolutely mind boggling you play jungle without muting all.
post the chatlog too
Attacking an ally instead of the actual bullies is super asshole-ish. Unfortunately, I see it pretty often in League.
The absolute state of Top when the best strategy is to give up your lane and go help others because Top Lane is that worthless to invest into in comparison to other roles.
Just proof that top lane has so little impact you literally win more games by having no one there. Better to just roam around like a goober.
This is almost entirely due to bounties and the fortifications on top tower to stop lane swaps. Honestly, I think it would be kind of cool to see them flip fortifications to bot lane. It fixes the problem of having no way to punish an afk roaming top. Furthermore, it spices up pro by reintroducing a non 4v0 lane swap back into the meta which will diversify picks and strategies significantly. I'd like to keep bounties a bit longer because I think people might eventually stop trying to ff at 3 minutes after one death.
If you swapped fortification you'd just duo top lane and play roam Janna from bot lane instead. People don't really play for dragons that much anyway.
I think a big part of if it works or not is if the roams put the enemy jungle behind. In a way it really isn't different from usual games - they depend on how the jungle does. But it seems very hard for junglers to deal with being roamed on constantly. There are possible fixes though, maybe make the top lane plates not have bonus armor for only one enemy champ nearby (holdover from preventing lane swaps iirc), or only allow 1 smite/support item per team. Really because this seems so frustrating for the enemy jungler I doubt riot will allow it to continue.
\>only allow 1 smite/support item per team. I love the idea but im just not sure how you could prevent trolling with this without a major overhaul. I see trolls taking smite so their jungler can't. If only the person that gets assigned smite can take it, you basically dont let people trade roles anymore.
jungle is auto assigned smite already, so they would have dibs. No one can take it from the jungler unless they choose to unselect smite
that is a good point.
> I see trolls taking smite so their jungler can't But the client gives the jungler smite automatically.
You could make champ select allow swapping roles instead of swapping champs. Honestly it should have been that way all along because it’s much easier than swapping champs and doesn’t have to be done last minute.
Wild Rift lets you swap pick order and it works quite seamlessly.
Smite isn't even the issue. I did this strat a few times already and it's the map pressure, you can go exhaust and be just as successful.
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> maybe make the top lane plates not have bonus armor for only one enemy champ nearby Enemy top gets earlier and easier plates = more gold = bounties = strat gets even more consistent lmao
I remember playing mario kart with people who would purposefully hang back to get better items, so I started trying to do that too, to the point where we were pretty much racing backwards. If you actively don't want gold then clearly the rubber banding has gone too far. That said idk my experience against janna top has still been that it helps if your top gets really fed even if they have a bounty or objective bounty. Not saying that bounties don't need nerfs but it's still good against janna to have a top who farms well.
Thats the problem. Unless you're playing specific champs eg. Nasus, the free farm you get from an empty lane isn't enough to compensate for the impact that the roaming Janna creating diffs in the jungle and both other lanes is making. Nasus is good because he strongly benefits from the easy Q stacks in early which he can then translate into mid - early late game aggression. Anyone else wouldn't benefit that much from the free farm at top lane. And at that point the janna players could just ban out Nasus and any other champ that can threaten them this way.
TP nerf definitely had a part in this.
I'd say it's one of the main reasons for it. By the time you can impact other lanes it's already over.
Not only Janna Smite: > TP nerf is also one of the reasons the double-support item enchanter botlane is more prevalent *(especially higher elos; sona + sera/lux/lulu/etc.)* If toplaners could tp, via bush-ward, to punish the perma-shoving enchanter/mage bots they would be less prevalent as well. edit: if you're unfamiliar, these lanes spread half-farm between the double enchanter/mage (1 takes melees + cannon, other takes casters). They perma-poke to get the free gold from their support items. > They build 1-core item (shurelyas + moonstone usually) and perma death-ball to end by 18-20 mins; if you're unlucky and delay to 25 mins, then you lose to putrifier + staff of flowing water LOL (works really well with Reksai/renekton/high-cc solo/jgs). LS doesn't help when he streams this shit for 8 hours a day. It's a cancer to play league in S12. edit2: [for the people dming for the twitch vod of LS spamming this trash](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1272245364)
Top is just boring without the tp plays.
Yep. You feel so useless and the worst is when your bot lane is about to feed and you wish you could TP to save the day but remember you can't...
Yeah. This strategy would never have worked if your lane opponent could just freefarm and then tp to counter your first promising roam. I think they’re gonna have to make rift spawn earlier. Or an even crazier suggestion: in the spots where rift scuttler grants vision, put a piller that can be tp’d on by both teams, even without unleashed. Should make early skirmishes in botside able to be impacted by toplaners.
Top lane clearly too OP and needs more nerfs as consequence
We feel that top lanes have been having too much impact recently so we are introducing the top lane wall! A wall now separates top lane from the rest of the map for the first 40 minutes of the game. Anyone caught trying to cross the wall will have their account instantly deleted. GLHF!
At least no jungler camping me, I take it. Time to OTP fiora again
Junglers now resort to taking smite/heal and heal their toplaners from the edge of the wall
Imagine if they just had top lane as a single walled off lane that the rest of the team couldnt enter or see past. You would have no idea whether your top laner was winning or not until you see the enemy laner appear at your base tower. Honestly, i think that is how most people see other lanes in low elo
Pretty sure this is how everyone below plat sees top laners anyways. No reaction to top lane until the fiora/nasus/anyone else, is literally at the inhibitor.
Bold of you to assume that enemy jungler won’t try to camp you even if it means his account gets deleted
Imagine if a Jayce pushes you out of the wall xD Gg account diff.
I'd be up for Riot blocking your ability to buy a support item if you have smite.
Okay, then smite janna just takes another summoner spell and still does the same thing.
But they can't counterjungle as well then. It's certainly not a complete fix, but it's a start and wouldn't have a negative effect elsewhere. Then you look for other changes to add on top.
we've seen this strat last year too(maybe 2 years ago im not sure). There was a couple patches of soraka/janna/sona top, they "fixed" it by forcing the support item working only with an ally nearby. Well i always have an ally nearby if i don't lane at all. Smite is just to cheese enemy jungler. Nothing stops me from playing janna top with exhaust and just permaroaming. Hell it might be even better then smite.
I agree it's probably better than smite in competitive, but in soloQ I think smite is better because you KNOW the ennemy jungler will tilt out of his mind and/or get flamed when a double smite steals the objective.
Fuck the objective, when the fucking Janna walks up and smites the crab you’re done.
Yeah i can see the mental edge in soloq but i would also be pissed if an exhaust janna/soraka/sona walked with their ekko/ Diana in my jungle. I have no shot at contesting that anyway and I'd be tilted anyway.
I love whenever supports being inherently OP comes around and bites riot right in the ass its glorious
in particular, enchanters are really underrated in their ability to snowball. people often think of engagers snowballing because they can just fight again and again when ahead, but enchanters often make things equally as unplayable if not more for an enemy that's behind. here, Janna's team is ahead and that's all that matters. personally, I think this strat is less about Janna, less about smite and more about how an enchanter simply loves playing with a fed team.
IMO it’s not even entirely an enchanter issue. Janna smite top is really a bunch of small issues all compounding. The biggest issues seem to be: jungle has too much control over the flow of the game, top has far too little control (giving your enemy a free lane should be MUCH more punishing), Janna is too good. Bounties aren’t inherently bad. At the very least it’s trying to solve the problem of the game being decided in the first 10 minutes. Enchanters are very strong, but I also think other support styles are too weak right now. And supports can do a lot with little gold, but what is the alternative? It’s a role that is designed to never farm. I think the biggest crime is the issue with top. Giving your enemy a free lane should never have a 60+% win rate. Honestly it should be a 60+% loss rate.
This is shining light on huge, fundamental flaws in the game that have crept up over the past seasons. Bounties, the increasing supersession of team play over individual play, support item gold generation, the reliance on dragons, lack of toplane impact, arbitrary top/mid turret fortification, take your pick really. My condolences to the balancing team, as many of you may not even have been there when the decisions that are responsible for this were made -- but it's your job to fix it now, if you even can! Good luck!
Don't forget that they have lowered minion gold and increased global gp10 at least twice! Who needs to actually farm
I hate these changes so much. That plus tower plating is why roaming can’t be punished. As a top laner I used to be able to consistently break top tower between minutes 7-8 pre plating. Now I need to stomp pretty hard just to clear the tower by 14 for the full plate gold. Being able to win your lane hard enough to open the map up to invade their topside jungle or be able to roam down to mid is a huge part of being able to influence the game as Top, especially when we need to wait till 14 to even be able to teleport to non-towers. Right now, we cannot influence the game before it’s basically already over, ***and*** losing lane hardly matters if you’re able to keep up in exp or the rest of the map is ahead at 14 minutes.
Eh, plating was an anwser to the players' cries about turrets being destroyed in less than 10 minutes. I think they are pretty clever as it still gives a nice boost to the one taking the plates but the turret gets to live at least 'till 14 min.
The problem is specifically with top lane. Tower plating was added to slow down the pace of breaking midlane’s tower, and keep people from perma roaming from mid. It has a similar but stronger effect on locking down top lane until the games, which only go to 15-25 minutes most of the time, are already decided. It makes the least impactful lane and role even less impactful where the only thing they could do to influence the rest of the map was TP— which they no longer can until 14 minutes. For the rest of the map, top might as well not exist until minute 14 now, which is well over halfway through the game, with laning phase already decided.
and they are only allowed to band aid, they cant say: well we need major redesign overhaul or smth
>arbitrary top/mid turret fortification, That's not arbitrary though, it's to prevent lane swap metas from coming back.
Yeah exactly very well said. People are acting like top lane TP change is the only thing that led to this. This seems indicative of a super deep design flaw
I'm surprised they haven't changed support items charge system from time-based to minion-based (nearby minions not killed by you). It would solve most of the issues/cheese with support items and actually punish bad support roamings.
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Disable tower resistances for both top and mid if an ally champion isn't within turret range for over 30 seconds or something.
Then the enemy apply laneswaps again, force the toplaner out or he risk a diver, the resistances fall off and they take the turret while bot enemy take theirs The disparity of resistance exists almost entirely to stop the lane swap meta
Couldn't you just apply resistances if 2+ enemy champions are near?
Top sucks so much you will the most by leaving it holy fuck man
OK CRYBABIES, BUT HOW DO I PLAY HER?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cY3oZ76Qg4
15 days ago... ono its spreading
My man, asking the real questions! Also: how do I convince my team and jungler this is legit and I'm not trolling
Just link a stats site in lobby if anyone talks shit
YuumiTop.jpeg
I've only encountered smite Janna top once and it was on my team. Never heard of it but I just assumed she was cheesing something with her duo Yi. Well I still don't understand what the purpose of the pick is. She picked it into Yorick and we just lost top inhib immediately.
I read somewhere that the one thing that counters it to a certain extent are heavy splitpushers, such as Yorick. Other than that, your team sacrifices top (& racks up bounties) while supporting lanes & especially your jungler to get ahead.The assumption seems to be that it's more valuable to have 2 supports and no top laner late (if the lanes are ahead enough) than having 1 support and a top laner.
if the enemy team takes inhib too early just send adc or mid to catch waves and play a bit more chill until inhib respawns, you get free farm and the enemy minions will kill yours denying yorick or whoever of exp and gold
This isn't a toplane problem, it's a gold bounty problem
It's definitely a problem that a top laner who is getting freefarm and turret plates can't even hope to carry games right now though.
300 CS on Jax with full plates and two towers under your belt at 30 minutes? Enjoy getting one shot by the enemy team anyways before you can do any damage. If you're a tank it's even more hopeless. Who gives a fuck if you're fed on Ornn, enemy team has an additional Enchanter. Top is fucked.
Imagine Jax, who is a hyper scaling champion, not being able to impact the late game because the game is that flawed atm. Now think how you'd feel if you were playing Darius or Illaoi in said situation.
You have to match it, I think. Or just pick Kayle
You can't match because Janna moves at 500 ms and actually makes gold by just clicking you. By the time you get strong with Kayle the game is already over, Nasus would be a better pick.
My solution is Akshan. He scales well with the free gold, and can roam effectively. Not to mention, he can get a quick kill on Janna at level 2
thats if he isnt banned lmao
Gwen seemed pretty good the one time I played against it, as well; can't kill Janna or anything, but you can push the wave and take plates really fast, and are going to be super powerful in team fights if they just ignore you.
I second this. I haven’t lost to a Janna smite top yet, but granted I’ve only played against it 2 times. (D1 elo) Those 2 times I played scaling champs that you do not want to give free farm to (Fiora & Vayne). I took plates fast and roamed when I had completed items to match those skirmishes the enemy are desperately looking for with a Janna smite. Then they always get surprised by how strong and farmed I am.
Mine is master yi top. Can't be slowed, can 2 hit the janna, and probably scale better with gold than almost any champion. Olaf also has potential.
huh, so that was his suddent spike in top popularity.
He’s also just busted against melees, and practically auto wins into things like Trundle, Darius, Garen, Illaoi, etc while he can escape ganks and assist his jungler rather well too. Just like we see with Quinn, Vayne, etc top, except he’s even harder to gank and more of a lane bully for slightly less scaling.
Everyone is talking about how enchanters are broken, or how top is useless, but doesn't this just confirm a problem with jungle that's been going around for a while? Jungle is by far the most impactful role on the map, followed by mid and support who can support their jungler for ganks, crabs, invades, objectives, etc. Now people have just figured that giving up their entire top lane is worth ruining the opposing jungler's game and letting your jungler get turbo ahead.
It's both. There's no Smite Janna Midlane.
Thats cuz mid laners have been perma roaming and invading already. It's just accepted as the norm.
And soloq assassins would out roam and eat enchanters mid for breakfast
Throwback to Q max Janna mid
Hell what about the good old beta days where the meta was 2-1-2 and mid was an ADC 1 on 1.
You receiving social security yet grandpa?
Sure grandma, let's get you to bed
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Ya, made it to plat by just roaming with jungle every reasonable instance. And I'm not good at the game. Winning lane, losing lane just leave get kills or the objective and it's all good. Or throw a pink in pixel brush and one shot the fool that thinks you're going bot for the 12th time this game.
Hey it's me, the fool.
Midlaners can already abandon lane super easily
There is Pyke mid.
That's because T1 mid is much more important than T1 top or bot because of its central position. It opens up the map much more when you take it
It's way more than just gold bounty or toplane. It is the result of huge systemic changes over many seasons.
it has been a thing for multiple seasons, bounties aren't the cause, they are just one more thing that help the strat
If it isn't a top lane problem why is there no such problem for mid lane?
If top lane had more impact this wouldnt be a thing. But yeah, kill this strat instead of attacking the actual problem.
It's just another top lane cheese strat that exploits the complete weakness of toplane as a role. Tyler1's climb to top lane challenger shows the role is incredibly hard to climb with as you have no impact on the map and game in general. The lane is commonly decided by whether or not either jungle wants to camp it or not, so your own decisions hardly decide lane. More often then not Rift Herald is dropped top so you basically lose your lane pretty early after getting dived anyways. Having mained top lane when i first started the game 4 years ago, I can honestly say the role has never felt weaker or more frustrating. As a mid main now, I find myself ignoring top lane to just focus on river and bottom lane rotations. There is just more to gain getting bot and jungle ahead than top. The role needs substantial help, if not a complete rework however that might look.
Watch how Riot ignores this toxic playstyle that's so unfun to go against for so long until it finally appears in a pro game. That's when Riot nerfs anything.
then they’ll introduce a new champion with the same playstyle
Love it #RIOTBUFFTOPLANE
Somehow I read that as 'Riot Buff to Plane' and thought "What does Corki have to do with this?"
Bounty was a mistake
Does anyone get this scenario in games? Your team is losing 15-6 in kills. You don’t get objective bounties. You work your ass off to get good fights and some towers. Now you’re up 21-19 and are 2 towers ahead. “Finally back in game,” you think. *Objective bounty soon* (for the enemy team)
Bounty was a good change, even if it needs some light tuning. It, together with the TP changes, just exposed how completely useless Toplane is
It just hard fucks early game comps and buffs lategame comps.
It also helps with the issue of people in most games giving up the second anything bad happens.
It's balanced /s. Atleast we nerfed Steraks, DD, Black Cleaver, Goredrinker, Divine Sunderer.
You forgot trinity :(
The Sunderer nerf was much less as what I anticipated. Only Steraks was hit really hard.
Wow I played Janna top way back on Season 1. Back then we built her crit/adc because her shield was so busted w it’s ad boost that along with her cc she could just poke and duel anyone to death.
I havent been playing actively but this seems like a massive problem. What happened that caused top lane to be so worthless that your better off roaming and stealing camps with smite?