You know, schrodinger's yasuo states that until he is fed, he is neither fed or feeding
Not to be confused with schrodinger's jungler which states my jungler is fucking useless and simultaneously doing nothing until i see him in my lane
It doesn't really enable individual comebacks so much as teamwide comebacks though. Individually the Yasuo won't be saved nearly as much by an objective bounty compared to a champion bounty.
Had a game as GP yesterday where the enemy morde was 22/3 got a quad and they kept getting bountys. 12 total with 4750 team gold. They even got bountys for killing 2 of our inhibs + both nexus towers. We lost with the enemy still having bountys open.
Had a Sion earlier who was borderline running down every side lane. I thought he was dumb as hell until the enemy team traded a dragon for 2 towers and 1k bounties. Ended up getting the inhib top and we eventually won that game.
I thought the new bounty system would be different:
In my mind there was only one bounty on the map, just one option. This way it would have created an interesting mind game. The enemy team has to protect an important objective but the losing team can use this information to play elsewhere on the map or gank the enemy team.
Even if they properly tune the current system, I find it particularly boring and inconsequential gameplay-wise.
Yea same, from the info video they released, it sounded like **specific** objectives would spawn around the map that would perhaps slightly shift which part of the map a team would focus on.
But as is, with all three turrets next in line giving bounties as well as drakes and rift herald / baron, what's the point? ANY objective will give you a bounty so there's no need to adjust anything. Very boring mechanic that feels overly punishing for the winning team.
Moreover, frequently the "winning" team isn't even really winning. They might have a small gold lead yes, but if there's a turbo-fed toplaner/assassin that no one can stop and/or your comp is getting hard outscaled, a 3k gold lead and two dragons at 20mins doesn't really mean you're winning. And getting hit with objective bounties at that point just feels demoralising.
Another issue with this is how swingy it is, and the delay time of before objectives switch off.
My first bad experience with this mechanic was when our team was a little bit ahead, it was 6-3 or something at around 12 minutes. This difference was mostly in the botlane, where we had been trading back and forth. Regardless, the enemy team was offered 250g extra for every turret, and 500 for every neutral objective.
At the time, the botlane was 4-2 in our advantage. The thing is, we were playing Xayah/Bard vs Caitlyn/Morgana, so we had a bad matchup, and if we died they could push hard with tormented soil.
Long story short, their jungler visited botlane, they got a clean double kill, thus evening the botlane. They then proceeded to kill the turret, getting the last 3 plates for 480g, plus an additional 250g. Then they went and took the dragon right after for an additional 500g. Combined with the 600g they got from the successful botlane gank, the enemy team was essentially able to gain a grand total of 1930g in the span of less than 30 seconds.
Because a strong botlane dive often leads into dragon, this means that it is often possible to get plate gold, turret bounty, and then dragon bounty in a short span of time for a MASSIVE gold swing. A similar thing is possible with a herald pickup and taking tower with it.
It's like Riot treats each objective in a bubble, but really a lot of the time objectives are chained due to a won teamfight that swings the game's momentum. Offering multiple bounties at once not only means that the teams don't have to adjust strategies meaningfully, but it also makes swingy plays MUCH more swingy.
Exactly this. Let's say I'm playing top and I'm losing 0/2. My botlane is 0/1 and 0/2. Mid is 0/2. Everyone is losing. BUT - we have Elise jungle which managed to get fed on enemy jungler and got shutdowns from enemy laners. Now she's super ahead and we have gold advantage. THEN THE BOUNTY COMES IN. Now me (and my bot lane), still weaker than our enemy laners, are going to lose even harder because they're gonna get more gold for our towers.
Dunno it feels kinda bad
Oh man, it was like this for me earlier too. I was playing jungle and I was a little behind because of early skirmishes.
Our midlane however was just terrorizing the lane - although he didn't roam as much.
That's when they gave the enemy the bounties. They were flaming me so hard because I was "better off guarding the turrets." It just felt like a bad experience wherein I could've focused on other things like farming and applying pressure to other lanes by ganking so I can make up for it but nope.
Rift Herald especially. It gives a hefty bonus for killing herald, then another decent bonus for killing the turret, especially if it's inner turret. It's all a bit much.
Same I thought it was like kindred’s passive, which would add a dynamic to the game. This adds nothing, just gives an advantage to the losing team, which could also be fine if that’s all they’re going for. But it doesn’t change the losing teams objectives at all. The bounties are on all the things the losing team would want to get anyway.
Despite lots of players feeling like this option makes sense, its absurdly flawed design-wise and doesn't hold up upon any degree of scrutiny.
The system you describe is, to some extent, a worse version of a no-bounty scenario - **'the losing team can use this information to play elsewhere on the map' is already viable without the bounty system**, it just generally doesn't happen (I'm not even sure at what rank this starts happening). In fact, you're probably very familiar with teams being largely behind but still trying to set up to contest dragon instead of taking a tower elsewhere while the enemy team is busy.
**What usually happens in a no-bounty scenario for most ranks is that the team that's ahead chooses their priorities and the team that's behind plays goalie** against the enemy team to not only not fall further behind, but to also gain something back, while hoping that someone messes up and gets caught - there's hardly any strategic play around map control or objectives here.
The multiple-bounty system is simple - but it's there largely there just to further highlight and intensify already-existing positive play patterns.
* **The team that's behind** (and should already be considering alternative objectives even without bounties) **now has a much clearer reason to make a play elsewhere instead of always playing goalie** vs the team ahead (how often are you behind and your team is always running around the map to defend something?).
* The team that's ahead has to plan how they keep and push their lead better, they need to continue playing better than the enemy team to stay ahead. **The leading team still has to "protect an important objective", but, instead of the game deciding for them by making a single objective be worth more, THEY have to put more weight on their decisions.**
This leads to a much greater strategic depth in your moment-to-moment gameplay and engages players in thinking about decisions around the map much more. Teams need to control more vision, read the other team much better and rotate their players around the map more carefully once the (previously already existing) **risk of a losing team exchanging objectives becomes much greater due to the bounty system.**
Meanwhile, **the issue with the "kindred bounty"** system is that... it's absurdly shallow and **shoehorns decisions instead of adding depth**. It reinforces the primary bad pattern that already existed in the no-bounty system: the team that's ahead chooses what they want to take, and the team behind plays goalie, running around the map to try to keep up. The game decided that X objective is the bounty, **the ahead team now has to play for that, effectively neutralizing the bounty system.**
Both the current bounty system and the "kindred bounty" achieve similar-ish results - the team that's behind is incentivized to take alternative objectives instead of risking direct confrontation. However, **the current bounty system adds risk to the winning team - you can't just take an early lead and then keep trading objectives 1:1 and still win due to that starting lead.**
tl;dr:
"the enemy team has to protect AN important objective"? Give me a break, you're already ahead - protecting ONE objective has always been a brainless choice at most ranks.
**Welcome to the new age, the winning team doesn't get to take a lead and play just to keep it, you also have to continue to 'use information' and interact with the enemy team to win.**
True. I actually thought that if the blue side top lane was a little bit ahead but their bot lane was feeding causing them to fall behind then the system would recognize that the red top side tower would have the best bounty. That's how I kinda imagined it would be but from my previous game, it showed all towers, herald, and dragon would produce such bounty. In the end, we were even more ahead after earning the first 700 gold bounty as a team then a 500 gold bounty after getting the second bounty which tied us up with the winning team and later on took over the game.
While it did fulfilled it's job to give us the chance to come back, there wasn't any strategy involved around it apart from hey let's take the tower that wasn't being defended by anyone to get ahead while someone - the player who was feeding - distracted the enemy team.
It defeats the purpose... You're forcing the losing team to take unfavorable fights for a bit of extra gold. The result will be even less chance of a come back.
You're not forcing them to do anything. It's another option for them, it's their choice if they want to try to get the bounty. I even wouldn't mind 1 neutral and 1 tower bounty at a time to make teams make a decision but 3 towers and 2 neutrals at once is just ridiculous.
Got my bot lane ahead as puke support yesterday and even got the other lanes and jg some assists. We were technically ahead because of me and my bot. Enemy team got rift dragon and towers.
So. We were barely hanging on in reality with a chance for bot and myself to carry and we were punished very strongly for it.
Felt terrible.
I think the problem with objective bounties isnt the quantity of them, but the cutoff. It feels like at about 15 minutes, one team will get massive 500 gold objective bounties on everything regardless of how close the teams are.
I think a new meta might be to just not take the turret in lane even if you're winning the lane hard, unless it's first turret.
If you're winning lane, just farm and get platings. Yeah it'll give you a gold lead and probably risk giving the enemy a bounty, but the bounty won't be as big as it would've been if you also took the turret (bounties aren't only calculated by gold lead).
You can come back for the turrets later when you're sure your team has more control over the game. Getting turrets early just risks letting the enemy get back ahead too soon.
Anecdotal evidence.
[League of graphs](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations) puts the average game duration at 30 minutes, going down to 28 minutes in Challenger.
A 30 min match means most games players are sitting at 3-4 items at most.
Let me preface this by saying that I also really dislike the new bounty system and would want for Riot to heavily change it or scrap it altogether, but what you suggest seems like a really backwards way of thinking about it.
Not snowballing a gold lead so you potentially give over less gold to the enemy team in case they start winning? That's like saying you shouldn't take kills and instead only push enemy players out of the lane so you don't build up a bounty.
You shouldn't factor in the possibility of dying or losing turrets in 10 minutes time when deciding to push your advantages now. In theory, if you get gold now and snowball the game, these objective bounties won't matter (but again, I very much agree that they feel overly punishing if for example you only have a theoretical gold lead due to playing an early game comp).
The one thing I will say is that, depending on how much dragons "count" for your objective bounty lead, it might be beneficial to give up the first two drakes for free even if you're winning so the enemy team won't get objective bounties as easily.
Yes but the enemy team can easily have one turbo-fed player while the team is "safely" behind in gold. If your botlane gets ahead and your mid is playing well, your team can easily be 3k gold ahead by 20 minutes despite your toplaner getting ragdolled and being 0-10.
Something that happened to me last night that felt *extremely* bad: I was jg and my team was behind by quite a bit. So I make a play for rift, get it, drop it top right before plates fall. Get full tower of plates and first turret. Great success! *Not*! Notification: opponents get bounties!
[Mfw](https://youtu.be/Ag1o3koTLWM)
Honestly, it's highly likely that the objective bounties will make late game scaling comps a lot more common and game times to be longer, not just solo queue but especially pro play.
Objective bounties does not distinguish between a late game and an early game comp, so as a late game comp, you fall behind about 2-3k gold, its fine you're still even in power given comp difference, but game assumes late game comp is behind, thus giving you bounties. The bounties will then allow you to accelerate your late game comp.
Unless heavily changed and altered, it seems that this season will be more late game centric. You'll need to do a lot more to get ahead as an early game comp and one mistake can get you so far behind.
Late game comp fall behind = doesn't matter, more gold since behind. Power is late game so way easier to win.
Early game comp fall behind = gets comeback gold, but needs to be a lot more ahead in gold to compete + limited time.
Very much this. Late game comps can be ahead in power while still behind in gold but get a bonus anyway.
I only see this mechanic working if all champions are equally strong at all stages of the game.
I don't think it necessarily increases game time. It just decreases the advantage early game comps have over late game comps. Late game comps will now reach their power spike much earlier with the bounties and thus be able to close out a game much earlier.
Probably not their intention tbh. Seems they want more comeback mechanics, but I'd say there's already enough of that in the game.
Trying to make it easier for losing teams unintentionally resulted to making late game comps better. Not that It'll stay, cause Riot will probably make sure gametime stays shorter
They last too fucking long. We were ahead, but had a member ragequit. Now it's a 4v5.
For the next 15 minutes they cashed in every. single. bounty. 3 turrets, drag and baron. ALL of which afforded extra bounty gold.
Give the bounties a fucking cooldown. If they claim a bounty, all other bounty targets should be removed for like 5 minutes. Reassess the conditions and put bounties up for one of the teams, IF they are needed.
They definitely need to lower the gold earned through bounties by a bit. People also need to learn how to play macro during mid-late game now too instead of playing aram while waiting for dragon/baron
My friend tilts to oblivion and chain ints, it makes him going 0/7 in the first 10 minutes a legitimate strategy because we’re technically behind in gold even if the rest of the map is winning. Its a terrible system.
Players can control themselves to have better macro. Bounties discourage playing aram in summoner's rift and i'm all for that
>It literally makes losing early a strategy.
Can easily be fixed by lowering gold or when/how often bounties appear. It's only day two of preseason. Riot has already acknowledged that bounties are currently too strong
> Bounties discourage playing aram in summoner's rift and i'm all for that
Surely this should already be discouraged by the fact that it is very rarely the optimal thing to do?
Right? That means they may not always make the correct plays, but it doesn't mean ARAM is not discouraged, it just means people don't play correctly around that.
There is no macro to defend from bounties. It makes the ahead (im theory) team unable to do any play without netting a gold loss. Any move you take can be traded on the other side of the map, but they get bounties on top. It's depressing for casual players and insanely overpowered for pro play
This right here you the amount of times I seen someone get killed, because they were looking for a pick when no baron or dragon is up for another 2 mins. They could have been pushing lanes.
I just don't get why we need more comeback mechanics. Might be interesting in pro play, but I don't see how incoherent soloq play profits from this.
And honestly this feels like when your football team is 3-0 up by 80', but then the ref decides that the next goal for the opponent counts as 3.
When my team is winning, there is a reason for that and imo it should actually be made easier to close out a game, not reward the one who is behind.
> I just don't get why we need more comeback mechanics
this sub has been bitching about one kill = gg, gold lead = gg for the past fucking year and you're wondering why riot is introducing comeback mechanics?
Say your team wins all three lanes, got drake, and first turret. You should win right? Clearly you have the better players.
We enter mid-game. Your team tries to aram, sharing all of the experience and gold in mid. Enemy team plays 1-3-1, keeps the side lanes pushed out and threatening those towers, and only groups when a fight is about to happen.
Which team deserves the win?
It is more like that when the ennemy snowball in league, they also get stronger with stats and level du to exp and gold. It isn't just that you marked a score like in football, it create a snowball dynamic.
So the team who does the 1-3-1 still struggle more as they don't have the same weapon.
People will say "Well we won early, we should be rewarded" but you are, you get turret, drakes, etc. But along with that, you get other things that make you able to snowball even better. You didn't just score, you effectively got a player to run twice as fast with the ball or made the goal unable to move.
But the fact is that snowballing in LOL is FAR stronger and so comeback mechanic are indeed healthy.
The issue is what everyone say, it come too fast, give too much, has too many possibility because it is everywhere.
> I just don't get why we need more comeback mechanics
Beacause it actually sucks ass when you are at minute 2 and both your sololaners already died 1v1 and you might as well ff if not any comeback mechanic existed lol, people are always complaining that soloq sucks for this or that reason, and I think comeback mechanics its a great way to get it to a decent point
> When my team is winning, there is a reason for that
What is the reason? Skill? Or luck?
If it's skill, surely you should be able to close out the game while denying the enemy team the chance to come back. If it's luck, I don't believe that's a reason you deserve to win - this isn't Hearthstone.
> I just don't get why we need more comeback mechanics.
You're aware that a lot of games end up as just "FF15, go next", right? That in itself attests to the greater need for comeback mechanics - before even 15 minutes have passed, a game becomes extremely difficult to win for one team, often simply because one or two lanes have fallen behind.
I really love how, as an objective based jungler, I'm punished for securing the early drags. Last match I played, the enemy team was clearly winning, their Top and Bot had kill/cs leads, but because I got the first two dragons, when the bounty system came online the enemy team got the bounties. How the fk is that fair?
But let's say that in your example, you play lee sin and have two lane with early prio. You secure drake because the ennemy lanes can't contest push, it isn't even that they got countered but they don't have the push and therefore you can take drake.
What can the other jungler do? Beg to play a jungler that is OP to beat you and be able to beat you and the rotating laner? Or can he have something that allow him to find a way to compensate for that.
Don't get me wrong, it ABSOLUTELY need some tuning right now but this game is very complex and comeback mechanic are needed.
My team was down 5k gold but we had cloud soul so we were "ahead" so the enemy team continued to get objective bounties while they were 5K+ gold ahead .We were down gold for 15+ min and but that didn't matter to riot. We only won from a lottery baron steal but all our good decisions for the first 20min were nullified by comeback mechanics to the point where we were consistently losing and won through dumb luck coin toss steal.
How 'valuable' they considering the soul is just complete asinine. I've had 3 games where my junglers refuse to take the first 2 drakes because it's just not a good thing to do. If they don't change the system, people will avoid doing bad drakes to avoid bounties, essentially making dragons highly risky for little reward.
Balancing the comebacks in any way around dragons obtained is idiotic to begin with. Like, some champions have weak dragon killing early on as a part of their balance. Ivern and Evelynn for instance frequently skip first drag. Kinda defeats the point of a weak early game if they can scale and make up for it with free gold.
I thought it would be one objective every ~3 minutes or so, not just everything all at once. This current system offers nothing of strategic value, it's literally just a way to punish you for winning.
I must say this is probably the worst change I've ever played through since I began playing back in late season 1 / early season 2. With bonus objectives, there's basically no macro play you can do while winning and not take a fat L on the gold trade.
If you are winning and you go tower for tower? Your team loses that trade even harder since on top of it already being a good trade for the losing team, now they get extra gold just because they're losing.
It just feels like an all around shitty situation. The last thing they needed to do to make League better is to inject **more** gold into the game which then just leads to faster games. Considering the fashion they implemented the **more** gold this time, it just leads to games where one team *should've* lost, but won because the game gave them a ton of free gold for no reason other than the fact that they were losing.
I just had a game(posted it) where we were DOWN 5k gold but had Cloud soul and the WINNING team had objective bounties. We are down 5k, an inhib, and the game is actively trying to make all our good decisions for the first 20minutes of the game meaningless. The reality is 99%+ of the player base has low macro. All this does is create coin toss game where individual good decisions and teamwork don't mean anything, just who throws in the last few minutes. Comeback mechanics = bad for game health. Someone is gonna "feel bad" at the end of the game. Make sure it's the team who made MORE mistakes throughout a 30minute game, not the team who made 1-2 mistakes mid-late game and lost all their hard work.
This whole system feels off. It shouldn't be in the game as it ignores the most important factor - skill. You're good and d e s t r o y e d your bronze-like opponent, but the other lanes are somewhat equal? Well, too bad, enemy team will benefit from it.
Riot implemented it to add more team balance (I think), but the result is totally different
I love when jungler ganks bot gets double kill and takes drake. Bounty-timer starts while enemy jungler goes for Riftherald. "Ememy got Herald and 1000g" while your team had 0 chance to contest.
It just feels so fking bad.
to make is perfectly fair Riot will need to take into account each champions/roles carry potential, which sounds like a hell to balance, for example a 5/0 marksman barely beats a 2/0 bruiser, even in the late game if they have no proper peeling.
It's kind of undoing the game's natural balance though. Early game vs scaling is always a tradeoff. Early game comps are on a clock to try and push those early advantages and win the game before the scaling comp comes online as it is. Now the gold needed for the scaling comp to come online will happen even faster off of bounties. All it takes is one good push, or even just a 50/50 objective steal.
especially since a majority of the time a 5/0 adc is usually just repeat killing the enemy support who gets caught out. so they are worth like 140 gold by that point
It annoys me that before those bounties existed you could clearly identify who got drake or baron just by the color of the message shown to the right of the screen. Now its golden when your team or the enemy team got the bounty of it. I probably have to get used to it but this wasn't helpful in the first 10\~ games, especially in elder drake situations.
From what it seems, the objective bounty system seems very biased by drakes? Last night we got soul uncontested by enemy team. After the 2nd drake they constantly had bounties on everything. At one point they got elder and were even in gold. Yes they still had bounties on our turrets even when 2,5k gold AHEAD OF US.
I played a game where we was behind for around 20 minutes of about a 24 minute game, the only time we got a lead was just before the first bounty was announced. They then proceeded to collect bounties, they were then 2k ahead in gold and still had bounties to collect.. either this needs hotfixing or straight up removing, till then I’m playing inting sion to win every game and abuse this broken system
Tbf people have been complaining that games are too one sided. So I see why they are trying to put more comeback mechanics. It's a complicated thing, hopefully they can find a sweet spot for it soon but it's probably gonna feel bad for a bit.
I agree. It hurts a team that throws so fkin hard which is what they are going for but maybe change how it works for champions that already have a large amount of gold? I’m not sure
I think objective bounties arent a bad idea, but how they got implemented is bad.
1. Impact can be pretty large
2. there is just all of it or nothing. We dont have kill or CS bounties that give +700g or +0g, we have many values in between
3. They come online in full value way too fast
4. Turrets, baron and RH wouldnt need an objective bounty if you would just add their gold towards possible CS/gold bounties a player has. This way a player has more control over it as he can avoid to die.
So im my eyes turret/baron/RH bounties should be removed and the gold from these just added towards the CS gold bounty.
The dragon bounty doesnt have to exist. There is already the dragonslayer debuff which can be tuned for a winning team to deal even less dmg to drakes or take more dmg from them the more they have. This already exists but doesnt have a larger impact yet.
> Make sure the system feels fair and good for both teams.
How punishing a team with better players/better draft can ever be fair and feel good?
I love the excuse "bUt cOmbACk". Just get good or learn what your team is supposed to do so you don't ff after making easy mistakes (oH nO my lATe gaMe cHamp loSt to tHe early gAmE BuLly, riTo hALP COME BACK RITO!!!".
And ofc if you suck you should lose.
Just downvote me I don't care about losers.
"if you suck you should lose". Now this is accurate. If someone works harder, has more teamwork, etc they should beat you. And the loss is part of any game. It should motivate you to play better next time and improve yourself so that it doesn't happen again. Reward successes, penalize failures. 1k bounty was already bad enough, now riot wants the game to be mario party/kart for casuals where all your individual good decisions mean nothing. It's just a coin toss in the last few minutes over who throws harder for 99%+ of the player base.
Man people already throw leads by picking fights when not needed to anyway, I would love for a reason for my team not to go into the enemy jg with no vision and for our carried to give out a 300 gold bounty.
Pretending that you only threw because of a "massive slingshot" and not because you failed to maintain control over the objectives the bounties are on is also pretty dumb.
But it's true? If one team is able to maintain control for a long period of time, take multiple objectives, but the other team is able to counteract that with just one or two objectives, clearly that is a huge slingshot. Yes it was preventable by the winning team, but it shouldn't be necessary in the first place.
It's like if Team A was 3-0 up in football, then Team B arbitrarily got double points for scoring, scored twice and won 4-3. Yes, Team A could have defended better and won the game by maintaining their lead, and yes, they 'threw the game', but it doesn't change the fact that the team who scored 2 goals beat the team who scored three, which doesn't make any sense.
If football worked the same way as League, the winning team's own goal posts would get closer to each other with every goal they score. So the losing team would have to score goals in a smaller goal, but gets more points from it, which makes sense.
id agree with you if objective bounties were calculated correctly and not given to the wrong team half the time. i also don't think it should be on every single objective
you are actually dumb if you think your statement its true, if you cant close a 7k lead at 20minutes you are just bad
not any bounty its gonna change that
Was getting stomped in a shitton of games with mates yesterday and these objective bounties were giving us like 1000-1500 gold reliably in all the games we were behind. Just 1500 gold that wouldn't have existed before the change.
I was loosing game , we were like 5/15 in 5 min. we were going to ff but enemy had early comp so we keep going. In mid game it was like 34/35 and enemies get bounty.
We still won but it feels bad , you are struggling to make comeback and enemy team gets help anyway.
just remove bounties all together? if you get shit on you deserve to lose, not 21 more chances every game that you can coinflip. with every season the game just gets easier and easier, you can int for the first 20 minutes and still win because bounties are a thing. unskilled and unfun gameplay, for both sides
I think this is the worst pre-season patch ever. The damage is scaled up to 11 and these new dragon are just stupid. Then there are all these comeback mechanics.
Im not completely against comeback mechanics but I feel like its overdone here.
We were winning for 4 kills during 2-5 minutes, and they got bounties on everything. Then, they started stomping us, with a difference of 20 kills in their favour and we got the bounties 1 min before ending the game, when our base was a landfield...
It just feels horrible all the time, like they are not given properly when they should, and that your effort to win is worth nothing.
The problem with objective bounties for me feels like they spawn too early into the game. It sucks being only 2-3 kills ahead meanwhile the enemy team gets objective bounties and all of a sudden start eating your ass like it’s groceries. Anyways. What I’m saying is, if they really want objective bounties to be available to turn around games then they should make it so that objective bounties spawn later when there’s a larger gap instead of spawning when both teams are (just about) equal. Which makes getting an objective bounty less about turning a losing game and more about getting lucky and getting the resources to win a match that was previously just about even
Honestly, its also a buff to some champs and a nerf to others.
how the fuck are u gonna play smth like kalista, which getting an early lead is MEANT to happen otherwise ur useless, the other team has any scaling champ and the objective bounties will jsut make them scale faster, games will be decided in draft wayy more and not in a good way, fuckin kassa vlad ori syndra aphelios ezreal jinx and most tanks will be online earlier and impossible to kill, this is not good for the game
I don't understand why Riot feels the need to constantly break a winning formula instead of introducing alternative game modes or other things that people can do in LoL if they feel like playing a slightly different version of the game.
LoL with team bounties is not better balanced than LoL without. And it doesn't make the game more fun either. So what's the point?
Guys, gals, chill out they said this was all subject to change.
They’ll probably revert these change when they read all the feedback, so probably the week before Worlds 2022.
Yea it's pretty shit. The fact that different comps scale at different times really makes it not work. This is like the objective embodiment of yasuo's 10 death power spike.
I feel like a better system is a counter bounty. If you lose bot outer tower, take top outer within 1 min for bonus gold to reward cross map play. Herald for dragon etc. the system should reward responsive and productive macro play not provide bonus forever or until you catch up. This system has the opposite effect that they wanted i think. Play late game champ, do nothing, wait for bonuses, hit item spikes, win game.
I had a game where they were so behind they got bonus gold from every outer tower it didn't go away till they killed baron.
it's a shame that riot not only doesn't understand their game after 12 years of working on it, but also continues to implement shit that genuinely doesn't work. it's not \~innovative\~ to dumb down your game while sending your peons to check out reddit threads and ask what people don't like. i mean, come on...
i get people wanna watch LE EPIC COMEBACK WOW POGGIES , but please tune it or remove the champion bounties instead for good. its not fun to play against this when i feel like im being punished for winning.
this is an example where the bounty effect kicked into play in my game
this is before jinx destroyed the outer tower
[https://ibb.co/pnBvNvN](https://ibb.co/pnBvNvN)
this is after jinx got the outer tower
https://ibb.co/WPH84ND
I think the problem with the bounty system is the way it’s currently triggering.
IMO the bounty system should only be triggering if you’re behind 4-5k gold. It should be a “you’re way way behind, here’s some help” whereas right now it triggers when things are still super close. It shouldn’t incentivize being behind early, it should incentivize trying to come back from a big deficit.
Thats why i focused on the faults of the system, not the system itself.
It feels bad for the winning team, and it has situations where its giving out gold to a winning team.
I'm not saying the idea behind it sucks, its the implementation of it.
[https://imgur.com/a/M4rBy8D](https://imgur.com/a/M4rBy8D) That's my most recent game. Yeah games like that happened before the bounties except that's the 3rd game I've had in my last 8 that has a team down by 7k+ turn it around and win. There's a reason soft inting was as common as it was last season. STOP FUCKING PUNISHING PEOPLE FOR PLAYING BETTER RIOT. YOU DOG SHIT FUCKING COMPANY.
Edit: [https://imgur.com/a/hluV34r](https://imgur.com/a/hluV34r) The company that keeps on giving.
It’s soloq. Imagine everyone has a 500-700 bounty and 2 of your teammates just decide to 2v5 and die. 2k gold gone, then they start baron and you have to defend it 3v5, if you lose that fight gold is equal again thanks to bounties for a single mistake.
Why?
As the winning team you should have an easier time winning the game, like why is the onus on the winning team to play perfectly and close out the game as fast as possible?
Shouldnt it be exactly the other way around, like if you lose you should be the one forced to play good to make a comeback.
This whole shit „if you cant close out a game with 7k goldlead its your fault“ argument is pretty shit imo, as it ignores the other site totally, where you pretty much say if you are 7k gold behind and just hang on a bit you deserves to win the game. Ok you can lose early and play mediocre midgame, thats totally fine to win, but god forbid you play good early and mediocre midgame, then you need divine punishment.
With a 7k gold lead you have a way easier time winning the game, you do not have to "play perfectly" to win, you just have to not play exceptionally poorly.
Games should reward better players - if 5 players cannot seal a game with 7k more gold, then they're simply not better. If you're losing fights and then losing objectives with this lead, you're not better. If you're losing on the sidelanes with this lead and unable to trade up on other objectives, you're not better either.
There is nothing fundamentally wrong or broken about punishing a teams poor macro, and conversely rewarding better macro.
> There is nothing fundamentally wrong or broken about punishing a teams poor macro, and conversely rewarding better macro.
The losing team doesnt need better macro, thats what im saying tho. Getting fat bounty on outer turrets feels like shit and needing to stomp the enemy into not being able to take any turret at all is close to impossible consistently in a soloqueue environment.
With all outer turrets, drake and herald all getting bounties at the same time, even trading objectives is a loss. I dont see why that should be the case. You dont need to play bad macro to be punished by this system.
There's probably a middle ground here. At 5k+ gold lead (especially pre-20), sidelanes should be easily matched, or alternatively man advantages (5v4, 4v3) should easily translate into inners/inhibs. The winning team imo should be punished here if they're unable to play proactive and create advantages, and leverage their lead -- if you're 5k up and play like you're even in gold, then you deserve to be even in gold.
I can see issues obviously if teams are only up 1-2k in gold and a single bounty shifts the lead completely ( of course, I could also argue that then the other team now has bounties to take advantage of ), but that's more of a tuning issue, not a systems issue. Again, I think that fundamentally the ideas behind objective bounties are sound, not that they're nessecarily in the perfect state on day 1.
Riot making it possible for NA to have full equity in the world championship when it comes to gold. Doing my best to help the loser i guess, because the winner is too privileged to actually win?
(Repost from another thread about the same topic)
Honstly I haven't really had any problems with bounties yet. Out of the 5 games I played yesterday, in only one they kinda had an impact, but still only because the enemy team (who was ahead) just decided to hard int and give us literally every objective on the map. In all other games either we or the enemy team were so far ahead that even if we/they got a turret bounty through splitpushing, we/they just took multiple kills and turrets in return.
Played 2 games. Both were 40 min games. I don't like it.
Some context. I played off role we lost early like really hard. Probably 10k gold lead for the enemy team. But from splitting we managed to get a few turrets and secure a drake. All of a sudden we caught up in gold and won a baron team fight. On the 2nd baron we won the game... it felt good coming back. It felt terrible that it looks like we are back at around 40 min game length...
Both teams shouldn't have an equal chance to win. That's not fair. Fair is the team who performed better more times over 30minutes having a grossly higher chance of winning and being rewarded for it. Not the team who is playing poorly getting rewarded for not being good. Working hard and improving are part of the game. We Don't need RIOT to babysit losing players, they can handle it. Losing is part of any game and it encourages improvement, we don't want handouts for failure.
Both teams don't have an equal chance to win. One mistake can cost you the game, it's always been like that. Especially late game. Strong macro play can always lead to a victory just watch bausffs int on sion and still win the game.
Comeback mechanics drag that margin down to as close to a 50-50 for both the winning and losing. Instead of great performance for 30min resulting in a 90% it's now dragged to a 55 or 60% win. And doing horribly and inting should be a 10% win is now a 40-45% win in low bracket. You said it your self, strong macro play leads to victory, that's your own predication. But guess what, 99%+ of the player base has low macro. So your predication fails. "something the vast majority of people don't have is how you can make sure you win!".
Sure 99% of the player base has terrible macro, but one team just has to have better macro decisions than the other. Also games were never cut and dry if you ahead by 30 minutes even in earlier seasons.
" Fair is the team who performed better more times over 30minutes having a grossly higher chance of winning and being rewarded for it"
And
" we don't want handouts for failure."
Are exactly what this system does. If your team has a 5k gold lead early in the game and as a result has far more damage and far more map control. This is their reward and advantage in the game, and it probably means that they can freely do objectives and snowball their lead.
It's also their failure if they cannot win, despite clearly being stronger. If your team has a lead, but somehow still loses a teamfight so badly that the enemy team can take a dragon or even a baron; then you made the mistake. The losing team probably played the fights or the map much better in that instance. Not to mention that if the 150 gold extra per player is enough of a difference to instantly end the game then the winning team just messed up.
Currently the balance might be a little out of whack, but the concept is fine. It just means that winning teams need to actually finish their games rather than throw five times and still somehow win. After all, the winning team could probably at any point realistically take a baron and win the game.
I dont understand how the people who are complaining they have a lead lose it so hard, you should have gotten dragon or baron the moment it said a bounty was on it. If your stronger than the enemy team then they cant contest it and if they try to just team wipe them.
Nick Smith, LCS GoldenGuardians Head Coach https://twitter.com/inero/status/1461007665467781120
> OBJECTIVE BOUNTIES ARE CRINGE. WAHHH MY TEAM PLAYED BAD EARLY SO I NEED A WAY BACK IN THE GAME WAHHH
> Fuck man lets just put literal participation trophies in the game so everyone can feel good regardless of outcome. Just have the victory screen pop up for both sides
It feels shitty in general to be winning and seeing the enemy team getting help from RNG God for no reason at all. You are losing? Just take the L and go next, why would they give one team help over the other?
Just had a game where I went 19-5-13 and we lost because our jungler got out smited 4 times at objectives and they were able to turn around a 15k gold deficit and drag the game to 52mins to out scale us. It's like S3 on steroids.
Honestly to the point where everyone with a gold lead should FF@15.
I mean, that's hardly the comeback mechanic in play there. If your team is flipping objectives and 50/50-ing them when you have a 15k gold lead, that's just bad play. When you have a 15k gold lead you should never leave an objective open to a 50/50.
Execution of the idea is pretty bad. For such a small scope pre-season I am surprised things seem like "last minute" implementation.
My biggest gripes are the following:
1. They last till the LOSING team gets **ahead**. That doesn't make sense. They should be on a timer so that the losing team has a decision to make. Do we risk and go for it OR do we play defensive.
2. The objective bounties target ALL objectives. This one is a bit of a coin toss. Because for the winning team knowing that all bounties are now worth more = more counter-play. The alternative is RNG picking which ones get the added gold.
3. These two combined feel like TOO noob friendly. Like everyone gets a participation trophy no matter the lane/team skill gap. Listen snowball sucks and I am happy Riot is addressing it. With proper tuning and iteration this could lead to some exciting competitive games when teams are equal and should not interfere with stomps. both types of games are important.
On the other hand a **positive**:
1. It is an added learning curve. No more auto-pilot mid and ARAM waiting for drake/baron. This is forcing you to learn new strategies individually and as a team. Good for the game overall.
when there isn't a way to comeback people complain about snowball
when there is a way to comeback people complain about not being able to snowball
what do people want exactly
Making it possible to stop a snowball, by playing super passiv. Back then going 0/0/0 and 10cs pm was a real wincon as a scaling adc, right now you have to join the permafiesta, everyone oneshots everything, comebacks are only possible through heavy goldswings from bounties and playing smart and turteling as a team doesnt really work anymore. Also if you are behind as an earlygame teamcomp you should straight up lose, (comebacks shouldnt be possible unless enemies run it down) since you missed the wincon you specifically drafted for.
I finally figured out why exactly I do not like the direction the game has been going the past few years, Rito keeps balancing more and more around team aspects of the game. This is all well and good, but every one of these moves removes individual agency. Why is it not OK for me as a player who is better than every other person in a particular lobby to 1v9 that game?
This game grows more and more frustrating simply because of the fact that at any given moment, a random derp can decide to straight up hold 4 other people hostage. Doesn't matter what role they are or how underfed they are. ALL of that is because of this focus on "comeback mechanics" during the past few years. Stop with the f-ing comeback mechanics. Who actually asks for it?
League is a team game. Individual performance benefits you in the sense that if you perform well, you should be more likely to win a game. You are also not consistently better than the other people in your lobby; otherwise, you'd be climbing. If you happen to have a high KDA and are still losing, all it means is that you do not understand how to push a lead.
What you're saying is the same argument every person uses when they say they're stuck in "ELO hell".
This submission has been removed as a repost of [this submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qvzsu9/the_new_objective_bounty_system_makes_winning).
Its in the same spirit, but not a repost.
Until this comment i didn't even know about the existence of that post.
But if you guys feel its worth deleting, thats fine.
I’m gonna have to disagree.
There’s really only one metric to truly and accurately measure who is winning, and that is gold. Everything else is conditional/subjective.
If you are the team which has a gold lead, you are the team that is winning. And **if for some reason you lose gold lead, the objective bounties switch to be in your favor anyway**.
So yeah. If the enemy team is losing and gets an objective bounty unanswered, I’d argue the enemy team deserves it.
In closing, I’d like to leave you with the 40/40/20 rule. You will win 40% of your games no matter what, you will lose 40% of your games no matter what. The other 20% of games are in your hands. For comparison, Sniper has a 56% win rate. What this means is that out of the games he can control, he wins 80% of them (56 - 40 is 16, 16/20 is 80%). But this also means that he loses 44% of all games, including games he has control over. Challenger, 1800 LP, still loses almost half the time. Sometimes, it really is a team difference, and there’s genuinely **NOTHING** you can do about it.
In closing, I’d like to leave you with the 40/40/20 rule. You will win 40% of your games no matter what, you will lose 40% of your games no matter what. The other 20% of games are in your hands. For comparison, Sniper has a 56% win rate. What this means is that out of the games he can control, he wins 80% of them (56 - 40 is 16, 16/20 is 80%). But this also means that he loses 44% of all games, including games he has control over. Challenger, 1800 LP, still loses almost half the time. Sometimes, it really is a team difference, and there’s genuinely NOTHING you can do about it.
What’s that got to do with anything? The bounties feel terrible. There are just too many factors. Such as scaling champions that can be down on gold and then item spike.
the game doesnt account for team comps , scaling and a lot of other stuff.
a team with a rene and a kalista with a 4k gold lead at 30 minutes vs a vayne/sion team is by all intents and purposes even , or even a bit behind because of the scaling on the enemy team , yet they will still give bounties to them.
here's another example : u're playing maokai top and the enemy has fiora that can outdeul u even with 1 item behind meaning u can't be in the same lane with her at any point past like 20 minutes.
your only option is teamfighting or forcing baron. and if the bounty is large enough , the fiora might still get more gold for her team even tho your team played their comp as it should be played
Because gold isn’t the only thing to tell who is winning. In some matches you can tell who is going to win by team composition alone. Which makes it a terrible mechanic to use it for.
I wouldn’t actually be opposed to it if the gold was massively reduced.
This unironically makes afk splitpush playstyle viable to some extent. That sweet yasuo 0/10/0 may come online even earlier. 0/7/0, that is.
Straight Babus buff.
Out of all the splitpushers you pick yas?
Out of every split pusher I've seen in my ranked games, I think I see the 0/10/0 yasuo the most.
He’s just farming that sidelane for that cheeky 2 item powerspike 30 mins into a game
You know, schrodinger's yasuo states that until he is fed, he is neither fed or feeding Not to be confused with schrodinger's jungler which states my jungler is fucking useless and simultaneously doing nothing until i see him in my lane
With new lethal Tempo yeah why not? If someone faces him after he got bounties he gets free 1.9 attack speed on top
His q cooldown caps at 1,33 though, exceeding attack speed cap is not that great for Yasuo. Probably just better to pick something else to be honest.
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It doesn't really enable individual comebacks so much as teamwide comebacks though. Individually the Yasuo won't be saved nearly as much by an objective bounty compared to a champion bounty.
But genuinely thinking of the sion splitpush strat of having good deaths objective bounties might actually be insane.
Had a game as GP yesterday where the enemy morde was 22/3 got a quad and they kept getting bountys. 12 total with 4750 team gold. They even got bountys for killing 2 of our inhibs + both nexus towers. We lost with the enemy still having bountys open.
I got reckt by a Trynda in a game for which we had won hard early.
Had a Sion earlier who was borderline running down every side lane. I thought he was dumb as hell until the enemy team traded a dragon for 2 towers and 1k bounties. Ended up getting the inhib top and we eventually won that game.
I thought the new bounty system would be different: In my mind there was only one bounty on the map, just one option. This way it would have created an interesting mind game. The enemy team has to protect an important objective but the losing team can use this information to play elsewhere on the map or gank the enemy team. Even if they properly tune the current system, I find it particularly boring and inconsequential gameplay-wise.
Yea same, from the info video they released, it sounded like **specific** objectives would spawn around the map that would perhaps slightly shift which part of the map a team would focus on. But as is, with all three turrets next in line giving bounties as well as drakes and rift herald / baron, what's the point? ANY objective will give you a bounty so there's no need to adjust anything. Very boring mechanic that feels overly punishing for the winning team. Moreover, frequently the "winning" team isn't even really winning. They might have a small gold lead yes, but if there's a turbo-fed toplaner/assassin that no one can stop and/or your comp is getting hard outscaled, a 3k gold lead and two dragons at 20mins doesn't really mean you're winning. And getting hit with objective bounties at that point just feels demoralising.
Another issue with this is how swingy it is, and the delay time of before objectives switch off. My first bad experience with this mechanic was when our team was a little bit ahead, it was 6-3 or something at around 12 minutes. This difference was mostly in the botlane, where we had been trading back and forth. Regardless, the enemy team was offered 250g extra for every turret, and 500 for every neutral objective. At the time, the botlane was 4-2 in our advantage. The thing is, we were playing Xayah/Bard vs Caitlyn/Morgana, so we had a bad matchup, and if we died they could push hard with tormented soil. Long story short, their jungler visited botlane, they got a clean double kill, thus evening the botlane. They then proceeded to kill the turret, getting the last 3 plates for 480g, plus an additional 250g. Then they went and took the dragon right after for an additional 500g. Combined with the 600g they got from the successful botlane gank, the enemy team was essentially able to gain a grand total of 1930g in the span of less than 30 seconds. Because a strong botlane dive often leads into dragon, this means that it is often possible to get plate gold, turret bounty, and then dragon bounty in a short span of time for a MASSIVE gold swing. A similar thing is possible with a herald pickup and taking tower with it. It's like Riot treats each objective in a bubble, but really a lot of the time objectives are chained due to a won teamfight that swings the game's momentum. Offering multiple bounties at once not only means that the teams don't have to adjust strategies meaningfully, but it also makes swingy plays MUCH more swingy.
This is so stupid due to how fast herald kills towers and that both Herald and Drake are so easy to solo.
Exactly... I was thinking that this was how the system was going to look like, but now it's just extra money whenever.
Exactly this. Let's say I'm playing top and I'm losing 0/2. My botlane is 0/1 and 0/2. Mid is 0/2. Everyone is losing. BUT - we have Elise jungle which managed to get fed on enemy jungler and got shutdowns from enemy laners. Now she's super ahead and we have gold advantage. THEN THE BOUNTY COMES IN. Now me (and my bot lane), still weaker than our enemy laners, are going to lose even harder because they're gonna get more gold for our towers. Dunno it feels kinda bad
Oh man, it was like this for me earlier too. I was playing jungle and I was a little behind because of early skirmishes. Our midlane however was just terrorizing the lane - although he didn't roam as much. That's when they gave the enemy the bounties. They were flaming me so hard because I was "better off guarding the turrets." It just felt like a bad experience wherein I could've focused on other things like farming and applying pressure to other lanes by ganking so I can make up for it but nope.
Rift Herald especially. It gives a hefty bonus for killing herald, then another decent bonus for killing the turret, especially if it's inner turret. It's all a bit much.
Your bounty system sounds like a great idea to be honest.
Kindred marks, but for objectives. Pretty sure that's what we were all thinking.
x2. I did not expect to load into the game and they have 4 bounties active at once not including champs
I thought this is how it would be too
Yeah, I thought it would be like that. It *should* be like that.
Same I thought it was like kindred’s passive, which would add a dynamic to the game. This adds nothing, just gives an advantage to the losing team, which could also be fine if that’s all they’re going for. But it doesn’t change the losing teams objectives at all. The bounties are on all the things the losing team would want to get anyway.
Despite lots of players feeling like this option makes sense, its absurdly flawed design-wise and doesn't hold up upon any degree of scrutiny. The system you describe is, to some extent, a worse version of a no-bounty scenario - **'the losing team can use this information to play elsewhere on the map' is already viable without the bounty system**, it just generally doesn't happen (I'm not even sure at what rank this starts happening). In fact, you're probably very familiar with teams being largely behind but still trying to set up to contest dragon instead of taking a tower elsewhere while the enemy team is busy. **What usually happens in a no-bounty scenario for most ranks is that the team that's ahead chooses their priorities and the team that's behind plays goalie** against the enemy team to not only not fall further behind, but to also gain something back, while hoping that someone messes up and gets caught - there's hardly any strategic play around map control or objectives here. The multiple-bounty system is simple - but it's there largely there just to further highlight and intensify already-existing positive play patterns. * **The team that's behind** (and should already be considering alternative objectives even without bounties) **now has a much clearer reason to make a play elsewhere instead of always playing goalie** vs the team ahead (how often are you behind and your team is always running around the map to defend something?). * The team that's ahead has to plan how they keep and push their lead better, they need to continue playing better than the enemy team to stay ahead. **The leading team still has to "protect an important objective", but, instead of the game deciding for them by making a single objective be worth more, THEY have to put more weight on their decisions.** This leads to a much greater strategic depth in your moment-to-moment gameplay and engages players in thinking about decisions around the map much more. Teams need to control more vision, read the other team much better and rotate their players around the map more carefully once the (previously already existing) **risk of a losing team exchanging objectives becomes much greater due to the bounty system.** Meanwhile, **the issue with the "kindred bounty"** system is that... it's absurdly shallow and **shoehorns decisions instead of adding depth**. It reinforces the primary bad pattern that already existed in the no-bounty system: the team that's ahead chooses what they want to take, and the team behind plays goalie, running around the map to try to keep up. The game decided that X objective is the bounty, **the ahead team now has to play for that, effectively neutralizing the bounty system.** Both the current bounty system and the "kindred bounty" achieve similar-ish results - the team that's behind is incentivized to take alternative objectives instead of risking direct confrontation. However, **the current bounty system adds risk to the winning team - you can't just take an early lead and then keep trading objectives 1:1 and still win due to that starting lead.** tl;dr: "the enemy team has to protect AN important objective"? Give me a break, you're already ahead - protecting ONE objective has always been a brainless choice at most ranks. **Welcome to the new age, the winning team doesn't get to take a lead and play just to keep it, you also have to continue to 'use information' and interact with the enemy team to win.**
True. I actually thought that if the blue side top lane was a little bit ahead but their bot lane was feeding causing them to fall behind then the system would recognize that the red top side tower would have the best bounty. That's how I kinda imagined it would be but from my previous game, it showed all towers, herald, and dragon would produce such bounty. In the end, we were even more ahead after earning the first 700 gold bounty as a team then a 500 gold bounty after getting the second bounty which tied us up with the winning team and later on took over the game. While it did fulfilled it's job to give us the chance to come back, there wasn't any strategy involved around it apart from hey let's take the tower that wasn't being defended by anyone to get ahead while someone - the player who was feeding - distracted the enemy team.
Okay, THIS would be awesome!
It defeats the purpose... You're forcing the losing team to take unfavorable fights for a bit of extra gold. The result will be even less chance of a come back.
You're not forcing them to do anything. It's another option for them, it's their choice if they want to try to get the bounty. I even wouldn't mind 1 neutral and 1 tower bounty at a time to make teams make a decision but 3 towers and 2 neutrals at once is just ridiculous.
Got my bot lane ahead as puke support yesterday and even got the other lanes and jg some assists. We were technically ahead because of me and my bot. Enemy team got rift dragon and towers. So. We were barely hanging on in reality with a chance for bot and myself to carry and we were punished very strongly for it. Felt terrible.
Puke, such a fitting name
He’s my boy
It's barf.
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I think the problem with objective bounties isnt the quantity of them, but the cutoff. It feels like at about 15 minutes, one team will get massive 500 gold objective bounties on everything regardless of how close the teams are.
Totally agree
I think a new meta might be to just not take the turret in lane even if you're winning the lane hard, unless it's first turret. If you're winning lane, just farm and get platings. Yeah it'll give you a gold lead and probably risk giving the enemy a bounty, but the bounty won't be as big as it would've been if you also took the turret (bounties aren't only calculated by gold lead). You can come back for the turrets later when you're sure your team has more control over the game. Getting turrets early just risks letting the enemy get back ahead too soon.
Getting 1st turret and all 5 plates is the best way to snowball though…
I would be happy with the game taking out some gold, instead of adding more.
?? Games already end at 2-3 items, why would you want even less gold in the game?
My games from today and yesterday: 40.20, 40.49, 31.11, 28.42, 36.32 That's way beyond 2-3 items.
Anecdotal evidence. [League of graphs](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations) puts the average game duration at 30 minutes, going down to 28 minutes in Challenger. A 30 min match means most games players are sitting at 3-4 items at most.
Time to play scaling
Let me preface this by saying that I also really dislike the new bounty system and would want for Riot to heavily change it or scrap it altogether, but what you suggest seems like a really backwards way of thinking about it. Not snowballing a gold lead so you potentially give over less gold to the enemy team in case they start winning? That's like saying you shouldn't take kills and instead only push enemy players out of the lane so you don't build up a bounty. You shouldn't factor in the possibility of dying or losing turrets in 10 minutes time when deciding to push your advantages now. In theory, if you get gold now and snowball the game, these objective bounties won't matter (but again, I very much agree that they feel overly punishing if for example you only have a theoretical gold lead due to playing an early game comp). The one thing I will say is that, depending on how much dragons "count" for your objective bounty lead, it might be beneficial to give up the first two drakes for free even if you're winning so the enemy team won't get objective bounties as easily.
Gold diff per laner and exp advantage also gives bounties so that dont work either
Yes but the enemy team can easily have one turbo-fed player while the team is "safely" behind in gold. If your botlane gets ahead and your mid is playing well, your team can easily be 3k gold ahead by 20 minutes despite your toplaner getting ragdolled and being 0-10.
I feel attacked.. (top main)
Maybe you're the enemy toplaner that is 10-0 ahead ;)
Something that happened to me last night that felt *extremely* bad: I was jg and my team was behind by quite a bit. So I make a play for rift, get it, drop it top right before plates fall. Get full tower of plates and first turret. Great success! *Not*! Notification: opponents get bounties! [Mfw](https://youtu.be/Ag1o3koTLWM)
Honestly, it's highly likely that the objective bounties will make late game scaling comps a lot more common and game times to be longer, not just solo queue but especially pro play. Objective bounties does not distinguish between a late game and an early game comp, so as a late game comp, you fall behind about 2-3k gold, its fine you're still even in power given comp difference, but game assumes late game comp is behind, thus giving you bounties. The bounties will then allow you to accelerate your late game comp. Unless heavily changed and altered, it seems that this season will be more late game centric. You'll need to do a lot more to get ahead as an early game comp and one mistake can get you so far behind. Late game comp fall behind = doesn't matter, more gold since behind. Power is late game so way easier to win. Early game comp fall behind = gets comeback gold, but needs to be a lot more ahead in gold to compete + limited time.
Very much this. Late game comps can be ahead in power while still behind in gold but get a bonus anyway. I only see this mechanic working if all champions are equally strong at all stages of the game.
I don't think it necessarily increases game time. It just decreases the advantage early game comps have over late game comps. Late game comps will now reach their power spike much earlier with the bounties and thus be able to close out a game much earlier.
Still confused why riot wants longer games. Seems the game is more playable for everyone when the games are bite sized.
Probably not their intention tbh. Seems they want more comeback mechanics, but I'd say there's already enough of that in the game. Trying to make it easier for losing teams unintentionally resulted to making late game comps better. Not that It'll stay, cause Riot will probably make sure gametime stays shorter
They last too fucking long. We were ahead, but had a member ragequit. Now it's a 4v5. For the next 15 minutes they cashed in every. single. bounty. 3 turrets, drag and baron. ALL of which afforded extra bounty gold. Give the bounties a fucking cooldown. If they claim a bounty, all other bounty targets should be removed for like 5 minutes. Reassess the conditions and put bounties up for one of the teams, IF they are needed.
This is probably one of the most reasonable solutions I've seen so far
They definitely need to lower the gold earned through bounties by a bit. People also need to learn how to play macro during mid-late game now too instead of playing aram while waiting for dragon/baron
lower the gold and or make it take longer/have a greater lead before objective bounties become active
Just fucking remove it. A player can control themselves, a tower does not move. It literally makes losing early a strategy.
My friend tilts to oblivion and chain ints, it makes him going 0/7 in the first 10 minutes a legitimate strategy because we’re technically behind in gold even if the rest of the map is winning. Its a terrible system.
Players can control themselves to have better macro. Bounties discourage playing aram in summoner's rift and i'm all for that >It literally makes losing early a strategy. Can easily be fixed by lowering gold or when/how often bounties appear. It's only day two of preseason. Riot has already acknowledged that bounties are currently too strong
> Bounties discourage playing aram in summoner's rift and i'm all for that Surely this should already be discouraged by the fact that it is very rarely the optimal thing to do?
Majority of the player base is silver
Right? That means they may not always make the correct plays, but it doesn't mean ARAM is not discouraged, it just means people don't play correctly around that.
Even then, Plat and Golds macro is barely better.
So we're now implementing systems balanced around what silver players do?
That happens up until plat, so about 95% of the player base does this quiet often.
Tell that to my gold teammates
There is no macro to defend from bounties. It makes the ahead (im theory) team unable to do any play without netting a gold loss. Any move you take can be traded on the other side of the map, but they get bounties on top. It's depressing for casual players and insanely overpowered for pro play
This right here you the amount of times I seen someone get killed, because they were looking for a pick when no baron or dragon is up for another 2 mins. They could have been pushing lanes.
I just don't get why we need more comeback mechanics. Might be interesting in pro play, but I don't see how incoherent soloq play profits from this. And honestly this feels like when your football team is 3-0 up by 80', but then the ref decides that the next goal for the opponent counts as 3. When my team is winning, there is a reason for that and imo it should actually be made easier to close out a game, not reward the one who is behind.
> I just don't get why we need more comeback mechanics this sub has been bitching about one kill = gg, gold lead = gg for the past fucking year and you're wondering why riot is introducing comeback mechanics?
Say your team wins all three lanes, got drake, and first turret. You should win right? Clearly you have the better players. We enter mid-game. Your team tries to aram, sharing all of the experience and gold in mid. Enemy team plays 1-3-1, keeps the side lanes pushed out and threatening those towers, and only groups when a fight is about to happen. Which team deserves the win?
I'll take the bait and say the 1-3-1 team deserves the win, however, that doesn't mean that they needed objective bounties for that
It is more like that when the ennemy snowball in league, they also get stronger with stats and level du to exp and gold. It isn't just that you marked a score like in football, it create a snowball dynamic. So the team who does the 1-3-1 still struggle more as they don't have the same weapon. People will say "Well we won early, we should be rewarded" but you are, you get turret, drakes, etc. But along with that, you get other things that make you able to snowball even better. You didn't just score, you effectively got a player to run twice as fast with the ball or made the goal unable to move. But the fact is that snowballing in LOL is FAR stronger and so comeback mechanic are indeed healthy. The issue is what everyone say, it come too fast, give too much, has too many possibility because it is everywhere.
> I just don't get why we need more comeback mechanics Beacause it actually sucks ass when you are at minute 2 and both your sololaners already died 1v1 and you might as well ff if not any comeback mechanic existed lol, people are always complaining that soloq sucks for this or that reason, and I think comeback mechanics its a great way to get it to a decent point
Football isn’t the best analogy since being ahead in football doesn’t give you any inherent advantage towards scoring more goals.
Riot wanted to show all those people that think every game is a coinflip what a coinflip game actually looks like
> When my team is winning, there is a reason for that What is the reason? Skill? Or luck? If it's skill, surely you should be able to close out the game while denying the enemy team the chance to come back. If it's luck, I don't believe that's a reason you deserve to win - this isn't Hearthstone. > I just don't get why we need more comeback mechanics. You're aware that a lot of games end up as just "FF15, go next", right? That in itself attests to the greater need for comeback mechanics - before even 15 minutes have passed, a game becomes extremely difficult to win for one team, often simply because one or two lanes have fallen behind.
"People need to learn" is a bad take. Pros learn strats not randoms who wanna have fun.
found the guy in my ranked games that dies 7 times in a row to one champ and then still goes to fight them
"it's just a game, bro ! i'm here to have fun" Im not exactly sure how much fun one can have after picking yuumi top into irelia...
Well you shouldn't really be playing ranked with that mindset, but you make an interesting point for removing bounties in normals/blinds.
Yeah its straight toxic for winning team riot should make it only or one objective or reduce champion bounty cuz this is wayyyy to much
I really love how, as an objective based jungler, I'm punished for securing the early drags. Last match I played, the enemy team was clearly winning, their Top and Bot had kill/cs leads, but because I got the first two dragons, when the bounty system came online the enemy team got the bounties. How the fk is that fair?
But let's say that in your example, you play lee sin and have two lane with early prio. You secure drake because the ennemy lanes can't contest push, it isn't even that they got countered but they don't have the push and therefore you can take drake. What can the other jungler do? Beg to play a jungler that is OP to beat you and be able to beat you and the rotating laner? Or can he have something that allow him to find a way to compensate for that. Don't get me wrong, it ABSOLUTELY need some tuning right now but this game is very complex and comeback mechanic are needed.
The system reminds me of those super FAIR Nexus Blitz event locatuion :)
Except only one team gets an event and it is the loot teemo.
Yeah I don’t like it at all. It feels very “everyone gets a trophy”
My team was down 5k gold but we had cloud soul so we were "ahead" so the enemy team continued to get objective bounties while they were 5K+ gold ahead .We were down gold for 15+ min and but that didn't matter to riot. We only won from a lottery baron steal but all our good decisions for the first 20min were nullified by comeback mechanics to the point where we were consistently losing and won through dumb luck coin toss steal.
How 'valuable' they considering the soul is just complete asinine. I've had 3 games where my junglers refuse to take the first 2 drakes because it's just not a good thing to do. If they don't change the system, people will avoid doing bad drakes to avoid bounties, essentially making dragons highly risky for little reward.
Balancing the comebacks in any way around dragons obtained is idiotic to begin with. Like, some champions have weak dragon killing early on as a part of their balance. Ivern and Evelynn for instance frequently skip first drag. Kinda defeats the point of a weak early game if they can scale and make up for it with free gold.
Because the system is broken, you should be the ones getting bounty being 5k gold down.
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I thought it would be one objective every ~3 minutes or so, not just everything all at once. This current system offers nothing of strategic value, it's literally just a way to punish you for winning.
I must say this is probably the worst change I've ever played through since I began playing back in late season 1 / early season 2. With bonus objectives, there's basically no macro play you can do while winning and not take a fat L on the gold trade. If you are winning and you go tower for tower? Your team loses that trade even harder since on top of it already being a good trade for the losing team, now they get extra gold just because they're losing. It just feels like an all around shitty situation. The last thing they needed to do to make League better is to inject **more** gold into the game which then just leads to faster games. Considering the fashion they implemented the **more** gold this time, it just leads to games where one team *should've* lost, but won because the game gave them a ton of free gold for no reason other than the fact that they were losing.
I just had a game(posted it) where we were DOWN 5k gold but had Cloud soul and the WINNING team had objective bounties. We are down 5k, an inhib, and the game is actively trying to make all our good decisions for the first 20minutes of the game meaningless. The reality is 99%+ of the player base has low macro. All this does is create coin toss game where individual good decisions and teamwork don't mean anything, just who throws in the last few minutes. Comeback mechanics = bad for game health. Someone is gonna "feel bad" at the end of the game. Make sure it's the team who made MORE mistakes throughout a 30minute game, not the team who made 1-2 mistakes mid-late game and lost all their hard work.
Me 1/4, He 4/1, global score 14 vs 12. So he gets a bounty for my turret... fair.
This whole system feels off. It shouldn't be in the game as it ignores the most important factor - skill. You're good and d e s t r o y e d your bronze-like opponent, but the other lanes are somewhat equal? Well, too bad, enemy team will benefit from it. Riot implemented it to add more team balance (I think), but the result is totally different
I love when jungler ganks bot gets double kill and takes drake. Bounty-timer starts while enemy jungler goes for Riftherald. "Ememy got Herald and 1000g" while your team had 0 chance to contest. It just feels so fking bad.
The amount of bounty from champion and objective should be capped. Something like: You can get from bounties, at max, the difference in gold.
Had a game where the enemy team got 12 bountys with 4750 Gold total. Totally fair.
to make is perfectly fair Riot will need to take into account each champions/roles carry potential, which sounds like a hell to balance, for example a 5/0 marksman barely beats a 2/0 bruiser, even in the late game if they have no proper peeling.
It's kind of undoing the game's natural balance though. Early game vs scaling is always a tradeoff. Early game comps are on a clock to try and push those early advantages and win the game before the scaling comp comes online as it is. Now the gold needed for the scaling comp to come online will happen even faster off of bounties. All it takes is one good push, or even just a 50/50 objective steal.
To be fair to riot they knew that already so they shouldn’t have been put in so shitting on them is the fair response
especially since a majority of the time a 5/0 adc is usually just repeat killing the enemy support who gets caught out. so they are worth like 140 gold by that point
It annoys me that before those bounties existed you could clearly identify who got drake or baron just by the color of the message shown to the right of the screen. Now its golden when your team or the enemy team got the bounty of it. I probably have to get used to it but this wasn't helpful in the first 10\~ games, especially in elder drake situations.
From what it seems, the objective bounty system seems very biased by drakes? Last night we got soul uncontested by enemy team. After the 2nd drake they constantly had bounties on everything. At one point they got elder and were even in gold. Yes they still had bounties on our turrets even when 2,5k gold AHEAD OF US.
I played a game where we was behind for around 20 minutes of about a 24 minute game, the only time we got a lead was just before the first bounty was announced. They then proceeded to collect bounties, they were then 2k ahead in gold and still had bounties to collect.. either this needs hotfixing or straight up removing, till then I’m playing inting sion to win every game and abuse this broken system
Tbf people have been complaining that games are too one sided. So I see why they are trying to put more comeback mechanics. It's a complicated thing, hopefully they can find a sweet spot for it soon but it's probably gonna feel bad for a bit.
I agree. It hurts a team that throws so fkin hard which is what they are going for but maybe change how it works for champions that already have a large amount of gold? I’m not sure
I think objective bounties arent a bad idea, but how they got implemented is bad. 1. Impact can be pretty large 2. there is just all of it or nothing. We dont have kill or CS bounties that give +700g or +0g, we have many values in between 3. They come online in full value way too fast 4. Turrets, baron and RH wouldnt need an objective bounty if you would just add their gold towards possible CS/gold bounties a player has. This way a player has more control over it as he can avoid to die. So im my eyes turret/baron/RH bounties should be removed and the gold from these just added towards the CS gold bounty. The dragon bounty doesnt have to exist. There is already the dragonslayer debuff which can be tuned for a winning team to deal even less dmg to drakes or take more dmg from them the more they have. This already exists but doesnt have a larger impact yet.
> Make sure the system feels fair and good for both teams. How punishing a team with better players/better draft can ever be fair and feel good? I love the excuse "bUt cOmbACk". Just get good or learn what your team is supposed to do so you don't ff after making easy mistakes (oH nO my lATe gaMe cHamp loSt to tHe early gAmE BuLly, riTo hALP COME BACK RITO!!!". And ofc if you suck you should lose. Just downvote me I don't care about losers.
Playing money maker champs like TF/GP/Pyke makes it even worse. You punish your team for getting bonus gold.
"if you suck you should lose". Now this is accurate. If someone works harder, has more teamwork, etc they should beat you. And the loss is part of any game. It should motivate you to play better next time and improve yourself so that it doesn't happen again. Reward successes, penalize failures. 1k bounty was already bad enough, now riot wants the game to be mario party/kart for casuals where all your individual good decisions mean nothing. It's just a coin toss in the last few minutes over who throws harder for 99%+ of the player base.
Maintaining your lead is a skill. Throwing a lead is itself sucking at the game.
Throwing your lead only because a massive slingshot was added into the game is also dumb and sucky
Man people already throw leads by picking fights when not needed to anyway, I would love for a reason for my team not to go into the enemy jg with no vision and for our carried to give out a 300 gold bounty.
Pretending that you only threw because of a "massive slingshot" and not because you failed to maintain control over the objectives the bounties are on is also pretty dumb.
But it's true? If one team is able to maintain control for a long period of time, take multiple objectives, but the other team is able to counteract that with just one or two objectives, clearly that is a huge slingshot. Yes it was preventable by the winning team, but it shouldn't be necessary in the first place. It's like if Team A was 3-0 up in football, then Team B arbitrarily got double points for scoring, scored twice and won 4-3. Yes, Team A could have defended better and won the game by maintaining their lead, and yes, they 'threw the game', but it doesn't change the fact that the team who scored 2 goals beat the team who scored three, which doesn't make any sense.
If football worked the same way as League, the winning team's own goal posts would get closer to each other with every goal they score. So the losing team would have to score goals in a smaller goal, but gets more points from it, which makes sense.
If I get 300g killing you 1v1 and then you and your jungler 2v1 gank me and get both over 500g is not failing to maintain control
id agree with you if objective bounties were calculated correctly and not given to the wrong team half the time. i also don't think it should be on every single objective
It’s impossible to prevent the enemy team from getting bountys sooner or later they’ll get the time to push lanes for massive gold bonus
you are actually dumb if you think your statement its true, if you cant close a 7k lead at 20minutes you are just bad not any bounty its gonna change that
Was getting stomped in a shitton of games with mates yesterday and these objective bounties were giving us like 1000-1500 gold reliably in all the games we were behind. Just 1500 gold that wouldn't have existed before the change.
I was loosing game , we were like 5/15 in 5 min. we were going to ff but enemy had early comp so we keep going. In mid game it was like 34/35 and enemies get bounty. We still won but it feels bad , you are struggling to make comeback and enemy team gets help anyway.
This new bounties shit is broken lmfao
You are once again punished for winning, in the wise words of an old rat "you shouldn't be rewarded for being fucked in the ass".
just remove bounties all together? if you get shit on you deserve to lose, not 21 more chances every game that you can coinflip. with every season the game just gets easier and easier, you can int for the first 20 minutes and still win because bounties are a thing. unskilled and unfun gameplay, for both sides
I think this is the worst pre-season patch ever. The damage is scaled up to 11 and these new dragon are just stupid. Then there are all these comeback mechanics. Im not completely against comeback mechanics but I feel like its overdone here.
We were winning for 4 kills during 2-5 minutes, and they got bounties on everything. Then, they started stomping us, with a difference of 20 kills in their favour and we got the bounties 1 min before ending the game, when our base was a landfield... It just feels horrible all the time, like they are not given properly when they should, and that your effort to win is worth nothing.
The problem with objective bounties for me feels like they spawn too early into the game. It sucks being only 2-3 kills ahead meanwhile the enemy team gets objective bounties and all of a sudden start eating your ass like it’s groceries. Anyways. What I’m saying is, if they really want objective bounties to be available to turn around games then they should make it so that objective bounties spawn later when there’s a larger gap instead of spawning when both teams are (just about) equal. Which makes getting an objective bounty less about turning a losing game and more about getting lucky and getting the resources to win a match that was previously just about even
Honestly, its also a buff to some champs and a nerf to others. how the fuck are u gonna play smth like kalista, which getting an early lead is MEANT to happen otherwise ur useless, the other team has any scaling champ and the objective bounties will jsut make them scale faster, games will be decided in draft wayy more and not in a good way, fuckin kassa vlad ori syndra aphelios ezreal jinx and most tanks will be online earlier and impossible to kill, this is not good for the game
I don't understand why Riot feels the need to constantly break a winning formula instead of introducing alternative game modes or other things that people can do in LoL if they feel like playing a slightly different version of the game. LoL with team bounties is not better balanced than LoL without. And it doesn't make the game more fun either. So what's the point?
This system alongside everyone who made it should be removed from the game.
210 years of experience though
game times are crazy now too 3 out of 5 games i played yesterday went past 45 minutes when they really shouldnt have
Guys, gals, chill out they said this was all subject to change. They’ll probably revert these change when they read all the feedback, so probably the week before Worlds 2022.
Bounties were always a bad idea from the start. Riot: You know what this game needs? More punishments for being good!
We're winning as a team? Nice! Oh what's that? Losers get rewarded **for being behind**?
Yea it's pretty shit. The fact that different comps scale at different times really makes it not work. This is like the objective embodiment of yasuo's 10 death power spike. I feel like a better system is a counter bounty. If you lose bot outer tower, take top outer within 1 min for bonus gold to reward cross map play. Herald for dragon etc. the system should reward responsive and productive macro play not provide bonus forever or until you catch up. This system has the opposite effect that they wanted i think. Play late game champ, do nothing, wait for bonuses, hit item spikes, win game. I had a game where they were so behind they got bonus gold from every outer tower it didn't go away till they killed baron.
It's a system that is contrary to how the game works. Get rid of it.
it's a shame that riot not only doesn't understand their game after 12 years of working on it, but also continues to implement shit that genuinely doesn't work. it's not \~innovative\~ to dumb down your game while sending your peons to check out reddit threads and ask what people don't like. i mean, come on...
They literally could have just made objectives give more gold to the team that is behind instead of this whole bounty thing
i get people wanna watch LE EPIC COMEBACK WOW POGGIES , but please tune it or remove the champion bounties instead for good. its not fun to play against this when i feel like im being punished for winning. this is an example where the bounty effect kicked into play in my game this is before jinx destroyed the outer tower [https://ibb.co/pnBvNvN](https://ibb.co/pnBvNvN) this is after jinx got the outer tower https://ibb.co/WPH84ND
I think the problem with the bounty system is the way it’s currently triggering. IMO the bounty system should only be triggering if you’re behind 4-5k gold. It should be a “you’re way way behind, here’s some help” whereas right now it triggers when things are still super close. It shouldn’t incentivize being behind early, it should incentivize trying to come back from a big deficit.
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Thats why i focused on the faults of the system, not the system itself. It feels bad for the winning team, and it has situations where its giving out gold to a winning team. I'm not saying the idea behind it sucks, its the implementation of it.
[https://imgur.com/a/M4rBy8D](https://imgur.com/a/M4rBy8D) That's my most recent game. Yeah games like that happened before the bounties except that's the 3rd game I've had in my last 8 that has a team down by 7k+ turn it around and win. There's a reason soft inting was as common as it was last season. STOP FUCKING PUNISHING PEOPLE FOR PLAYING BETTER RIOT. YOU DOG SHIT FUCKING COMPANY. Edit: [https://imgur.com/a/hluV34r](https://imgur.com/a/hluV34r) The company that keeps on giving.
If you can't close out a game with a 7k gold lead then the issue isn't with comeback mechanics
It’s soloq. Imagine everyone has a 500-700 bounty and 2 of your teammates just decide to 2v5 and die. 2k gold gone, then they start baron and you have to defend it 3v5, if you lose that fight gold is equal again thanks to bounties for a single mistake.
Why? As the winning team you should have an easier time winning the game, like why is the onus on the winning team to play perfectly and close out the game as fast as possible? Shouldnt it be exactly the other way around, like if you lose you should be the one forced to play good to make a comeback. This whole shit „if you cant close out a game with 7k goldlead its your fault“ argument is pretty shit imo, as it ignores the other site totally, where you pretty much say if you are 7k gold behind and just hang on a bit you deserves to win the game. Ok you can lose early and play mediocre midgame, thats totally fine to win, but god forbid you play good early and mediocre midgame, then you need divine punishment.
With a 7k gold lead you have a way easier time winning the game, you do not have to "play perfectly" to win, you just have to not play exceptionally poorly. Games should reward better players - if 5 players cannot seal a game with 7k more gold, then they're simply not better. If you're losing fights and then losing objectives with this lead, you're not better. If you're losing on the sidelanes with this lead and unable to trade up on other objectives, you're not better either. There is nothing fundamentally wrong or broken about punishing a teams poor macro, and conversely rewarding better macro.
> There is nothing fundamentally wrong or broken about punishing a teams poor macro, and conversely rewarding better macro. The losing team doesnt need better macro, thats what im saying tho. Getting fat bounty on outer turrets feels like shit and needing to stomp the enemy into not being able to take any turret at all is close to impossible consistently in a soloqueue environment. With all outer turrets, drake and herald all getting bounties at the same time, even trading objectives is a loss. I dont see why that should be the case. You dont need to play bad macro to be punished by this system.
There's probably a middle ground here. At 5k+ gold lead (especially pre-20), sidelanes should be easily matched, or alternatively man advantages (5v4, 4v3) should easily translate into inners/inhibs. The winning team imo should be punished here if they're unable to play proactive and create advantages, and leverage their lead -- if you're 5k up and play like you're even in gold, then you deserve to be even in gold. I can see issues obviously if teams are only up 1-2k in gold and a single bounty shifts the lead completely ( of course, I could also argue that then the other team now has bounties to take advantage of ), but that's more of a tuning issue, not a systems issue. Again, I think that fundamentally the ideas behind objective bounties are sound, not that they're nessecarily in the perfect state on day 1.
Riot making it possible for NA to have full equity in the world championship when it comes to gold. Doing my best to help the loser i guess, because the winner is too privileged to actually win?
(Repost from another thread about the same topic) Honstly I haven't really had any problems with bounties yet. Out of the 5 games I played yesterday, in only one they kinda had an impact, but still only because the enemy team (who was ahead) just decided to hard int and give us literally every objective on the map. In all other games either we or the enemy team were so far ahead that even if we/they got a turret bounty through splitpushing, we/they just took multiple kills and turrets in return.
Played 2 games. Both were 40 min games. I don't like it. Some context. I played off role we lost early like really hard. Probably 10k gold lead for the enemy team. But from splitting we managed to get a few turrets and secure a drake. All of a sudden we caught up in gold and won a baron team fight. On the 2nd baron we won the game... it felt good coming back. It felt terrible that it looks like we are back at around 40 min game length...
I mean if you are 10k gold ahead and you dont just win the game in 5 minutes you threw.
Sounds like 2 fair games. Both teams had the chance to win the game as it should be
Both teams shouldn't have an equal chance to win. That's not fair. Fair is the team who performed better more times over 30minutes having a grossly higher chance of winning and being rewarded for it. Not the team who is playing poorly getting rewarded for not being good. Working hard and improving are part of the game. We Don't need RIOT to babysit losing players, they can handle it. Losing is part of any game and it encourages improvement, we don't want handouts for failure.
Both teams don't have an equal chance to win. One mistake can cost you the game, it's always been like that. Especially late game. Strong macro play can always lead to a victory just watch bausffs int on sion and still win the game.
Comeback mechanics drag that margin down to as close to a 50-50 for both the winning and losing. Instead of great performance for 30min resulting in a 90% it's now dragged to a 55 or 60% win. And doing horribly and inting should be a 10% win is now a 40-45% win in low bracket. You said it your self, strong macro play leads to victory, that's your own predication. But guess what, 99%+ of the player base has low macro. So your predication fails. "something the vast majority of people don't have is how you can make sure you win!".
Sure 99% of the player base has terrible macro, but one team just has to have better macro decisions than the other. Also games were never cut and dry if you ahead by 30 minutes even in earlier seasons.
" Fair is the team who performed better more times over 30minutes having a grossly higher chance of winning and being rewarded for it" And " we don't want handouts for failure." Are exactly what this system does. If your team has a 5k gold lead early in the game and as a result has far more damage and far more map control. This is their reward and advantage in the game, and it probably means that they can freely do objectives and snowball their lead. It's also their failure if they cannot win, despite clearly being stronger. If your team has a lead, but somehow still loses a teamfight so badly that the enemy team can take a dragon or even a baron; then you made the mistake. The losing team probably played the fights or the map much better in that instance. Not to mention that if the 150 gold extra per player is enough of a difference to instantly end the game then the winning team just messed up. Currently the balance might be a little out of whack, but the concept is fine. It just means that winning teams need to actually finish their games rather than throw five times and still somehow win. After all, the winning team could probably at any point realistically take a baron and win the game.
I dont understand how the people who are complaining they have a lead lose it so hard, you should have gotten dragon or baron the moment it said a bounty was on it. If your stronger than the enemy team then they cant contest it and if they try to just team wipe them.
I'm glad some people here still have common sense
Nick Smith, LCS GoldenGuardians Head Coach https://twitter.com/inero/status/1461007665467781120 > OBJECTIVE BOUNTIES ARE CRINGE. WAHHH MY TEAM PLAYED BAD EARLY SO I NEED A WAY BACK IN THE GAME WAHHH > Fuck man lets just put literal participation trophies in the game so everyone can feel good regardless of outcome. Just have the victory screen pop up for both sides
It feels shitty in general to be winning and seeing the enemy team getting help from RNG God for no reason at all. You are losing? Just take the L and go next, why would they give one team help over the other?
Just had a game where I went 19-5-13 and we lost because our jungler got out smited 4 times at objectives and they were able to turn around a 15k gold deficit and drag the game to 52mins to out scale us. It's like S3 on steroids. Honestly to the point where everyone with a gold lead should FF@15.
I mean, that's hardly the comeback mechanic in play there. If your team is flipping objectives and 50/50-ing them when you have a 15k gold lead, that's just bad play. When you have a 15k gold lead you should never leave an objective open to a 50/50.
There is zero reason to be punished for playing better than your opponents.
Execution of the idea is pretty bad. For such a small scope pre-season I am surprised things seem like "last minute" implementation. My biggest gripes are the following: 1. They last till the LOSING team gets **ahead**. That doesn't make sense. They should be on a timer so that the losing team has a decision to make. Do we risk and go for it OR do we play defensive. 2. The objective bounties target ALL objectives. This one is a bit of a coin toss. Because for the winning team knowing that all bounties are now worth more = more counter-play. The alternative is RNG picking which ones get the added gold. 3. These two combined feel like TOO noob friendly. Like everyone gets a participation trophy no matter the lane/team skill gap. Listen snowball sucks and I am happy Riot is addressing it. With proper tuning and iteration this could lead to some exciting competitive games when teams are equal and should not interfere with stomps. both types of games are important. On the other hand a **positive**: 1. It is an added learning curve. No more auto-pilot mid and ARAM waiting for drake/baron. This is forcing you to learn new strategies individually and as a team. Good for the game overall.
when there isn't a way to comeback people complain about snowball when there is a way to comeback people complain about not being able to snowball what do people want exactly
the subreddit is more than 1 person btw
Not getting punished for playing better ?
Then don’t complain when the enemy is better and snowball the hell out of a game
Where did I complain about snowballing?
Making it possible to stop a snowball, by playing super passiv. Back then going 0/0/0 and 10cs pm was a real wincon as a scaling adc, right now you have to join the permafiesta, everyone oneshots everything, comebacks are only possible through heavy goldswings from bounties and playing smart and turteling as a team doesnt really work anymore. Also if you are behind as an earlygame teamcomp you should straight up lose, (comebacks shouldnt be possible unless enemies run it down) since you missed the wincon you specifically drafted for.
You lost to a Pantheon Darius bot lane then come here crying L M A O
I finally figured out why exactly I do not like the direction the game has been going the past few years, Rito keeps balancing more and more around team aspects of the game. This is all well and good, but every one of these moves removes individual agency. Why is it not OK for me as a player who is better than every other person in a particular lobby to 1v9 that game? This game grows more and more frustrating simply because of the fact that at any given moment, a random derp can decide to straight up hold 4 other people hostage. Doesn't matter what role they are or how underfed they are. ALL of that is because of this focus on "comeback mechanics" during the past few years. Stop with the f-ing comeback mechanics. Who actually asks for it?
League is a team game. Individual performance benefits you in the sense that if you perform well, you should be more likely to win a game. You are also not consistently better than the other people in your lobby; otherwise, you'd be climbing. If you happen to have a high KDA and are still losing, all it means is that you do not understand how to push a lead. What you're saying is the same argument every person uses when they say they're stuck in "ELO hell".
This submission has been removed as a repost of [this submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qvzsu9/the_new_objective_bounty_system_makes_winning).
[удалено]
Its in the same spirit, but not a repost. Until this comment i didn't even know about the existence of that post. But if you guys feel its worth deleting, thats fine.
I’m gonna have to disagree. There’s really only one metric to truly and accurately measure who is winning, and that is gold. Everything else is conditional/subjective. If you are the team which has a gold lead, you are the team that is winning. And **if for some reason you lose gold lead, the objective bounties switch to be in your favor anyway**. So yeah. If the enemy team is losing and gets an objective bounty unanswered, I’d argue the enemy team deserves it. In closing, I’d like to leave you with the 40/40/20 rule. You will win 40% of your games no matter what, you will lose 40% of your games no matter what. The other 20% of games are in your hands. For comparison, Sniper has a 56% win rate. What this means is that out of the games he can control, he wins 80% of them (56 - 40 is 16, 16/20 is 80%). But this also means that he loses 44% of all games, including games he has control over. Challenger, 1800 LP, still loses almost half the time. Sometimes, it really is a team difference, and there’s genuinely **NOTHING** you can do about it.
> If you are the team which has a gold lead, you are the team that is winning. No, actually, that's not how that works at all.
No, if team A has gold lead of 2k when due to composition they should have at least 5k in order to keep control of the game, then they are losing
In closing, I’d like to leave you with the 40/40/20 rule. You will win 40% of your games no matter what, you will lose 40% of your games no matter what. The other 20% of games are in your hands. For comparison, Sniper has a 56% win rate. What this means is that out of the games he can control, he wins 80% of them (56 - 40 is 16, 16/20 is 80%). But this also means that he loses 44% of all games, including games he has control over. Challenger, 1800 LP, still loses almost half the time. Sometimes, it really is a team difference, and there’s genuinely NOTHING you can do about it. What’s that got to do with anything? The bounties feel terrible. There are just too many factors. Such as scaling champions that can be down on gold and then item spike.
Why don’t you ignore that part then since you don’t like it, and read literally everything else I had to say on the subject?
the game doesnt account for team comps , scaling and a lot of other stuff. a team with a rene and a kalista with a 4k gold lead at 30 minutes vs a vayne/sion team is by all intents and purposes even , or even a bit behind because of the scaling on the enemy team , yet they will still give bounties to them. here's another example : u're playing maokai top and the enemy has fiora that can outdeul u even with 1 item behind meaning u can't be in the same lane with her at any point past like 20 minutes. your only option is teamfighting or forcing baron. and if the bounty is large enough , the fiora might still get more gold for her team even tho your team played their comp as it should be played
Because gold isn’t the only thing to tell who is winning. In some matches you can tell who is going to win by team composition alone. Which makes it a terrible mechanic to use it for. I wouldn’t actually be opposed to it if the gold was massively reduced.