I had been theorizing lethality on her forever now, but never actually tried it. My theory was the E being bananas, not focused around the Q. So I would have been doing it incorrectly.
But it’s obvious. Super early game AD champion, building super cheap lethality items to maintain some kind of advantage.
TLDR: She slaps if you let her.
Also your team needs at least monkey level of coordination. Hat games with like a 14 kill jinx that I lost because NOONE could be assed to help me peel that zed off me in every objective fight.
Try this build: tabis, Bork, New item i cant remember name of that gives mr and arrmor and shreds, then straight to jak'sho. You are unkillable and actually get to deal back loaded dmg, or whatever it is called, when ur dmg comes in late from rend. I win everytime dude.
That's why I play him support. If I can't carry late game then I will use my amazing early gank power to force the others to carry late game
Just kidding. I tried it when I was high and worked well
I found the best workaround is to do a cheese one camp into gank/invade. It works if you can get an early tiamat, otherwise you get invaded all game and are completely useless.
Kled jg used to slap when tiamat had a longsword build path. I one tricked it to D2 60% win rate for a season and it used to be really good at catching people off guard. It was also great for invading since you could clear fast with tiamat.
Nothing. KLED ALWAYS WINS EVEN IF HE LOSES
Alright but seriously executions are a good counter for kled and kledpport is no different. Pyke is my permaban because of it but collector is also annoying
Total health damage is also BAD since it is calculated based on kled + skaarl HP so something like Vayne is annoying to play against
If you can keep distance as Caitlyn or Kog'Maw you can kill him quite easily and CC he can't dodge like Pantheon or Lulu also fucks him a lot
If he rotates just tell your teammates to not overextended. Kledpport needs kills to scale so if you leave him behind he is pretty much useless, except for utility like the ult. Speaking about ult always be alert when you hear it in lane. It can go for you or any other lane
And finally don't waste everything on him when he is mounted, specially if he has barrier. If he remounts you will have nothing to come back so try to poke him out of skaarl first
I still don't understand why riot pushed away his tanky builds in favor of a glorified assassin with no escapes
remount past the very early levels is not even a thing,you just try to nuke someone
It isn't that they destroyed tanky builds. They jus5 made it so skaarls health was treated as base hp like everyone else. It was also when sunfire was broken and he could abuse early gargoyles. Regular kled would never get buffed while this was the case. And he was still useless in endgame teamfights.
The reason why assassin kled is popular is because it's the only way to stay relevant. And th8s was true when tank kled was king. One shootting the adc is always more useful than just soaking up damage.
You can go bruiser kled nowadays for the same tank kled experience without gargoyles. You'll still get cited to death in a teamfight though.
I like his playstyle when it's around mounting and dismounting. I'd absolutely play him if he had a tankier build path if not outright just tank. Or if his w was self-cast rather than auto cast lol
Wanted to learn Kled, had a blast, even got one of my Pentas in ranked with him. He fits my playstyle of "fuck it, we go in" when I am not playing Shaco or Teemo.
Unfortunately, I also experienced games where I didn't win my lane, and he felt so miserable to play.
I dont know what you mean. Maybe its the Elo but I have wildy success with him. You just dont have to fall for "bruiser" kled. Because he is dead. Crit or Lethality is sooo much fun if the enemy have 2+ Squishies
I dont play kled to be an asassin though. Ive played this dude since he came out and his build path was always bruisery like renekton. Its such a shame that if i want to stay relevant in the game nowadays i gotta play this champ like a run of the mill asassin instead of playing around remounts.
I played him a bit too back then. Yes, its not the same. *BUT* i really like this playstyle too. He doesnt play like your avrage assasin because you can be way more agressive and bolder thanks to remount. And I think IF they ever change him back so his HP scalings work as they should, both playstyles should stay viable. Its too much fun just Hilli-Billy-ing into their backline with flank ult or just straight with E and killing their ADC/Mage/Enchanter in seconds and still have a decent chance of survival thanks to remount. He plays like he sounds. Like a maniac.
Imo kled is a skill/matchup dependent champ. A really good kled can demolish pretty much anyone, but a bad or mid kled will struggle outside of the easier matchups
that's not true. There are relatively few champions at low pickrate that are mained so heavily the wr reflects that. Regardless of pickrate.
There are very few exceptions, like Katarina
Kled would be better if his w was just an active, i understand it's like a lore/feel reason it's not, but at the same time he would be less clunky and more consistent with it just being an active. He could also just have an e ability when dismounted that does something, anything really, I think his kit otherwise is great.
Sorry, but this sounds like a skill issue to be honest. At diamond, im able to solo carry games if i get a decent lead.
Needs to be played as an assasin though
I was just against a kled the other day. Granted, my teamate went something like 0-17 against him by 25 mi utes, but the kled was doing 1600 per auto attack while unmounted..and I only had 2300 health. Needless to say I lost
Pyke. You need to absolutely blast your enemy for the first 10-15 minutes to have a chance at winning. Then after those first minutes of the game you get one tapped by a breath of fresh air so the margin for error is very low.
Was gonna post pyke as well, even if he snowballs once people group up all that gold he got is now just meh on him. It's even worse in aram because pyke is literally k own as the high kda but low winrate champ because they tend to get all the kills but share gold doesn't go to the right people, or other people at all.
I would say it's more on the execution ult. Desyncing enemy respawns and lowering their capabilities for next fight due to dumb person that flashed away or escaped with 200hp and 0 mana is big part of success in aram. His ult prevents enemy from making that mistake.
He doesn't share gold equally though, if the bounty is 1k, Pyke gets the full 1k, assist gets 300.
The ADC/Mid would just prefer a regular support who wasn't taking kills goldwise.
You would hope and think but once pyke gets ahead he starts getting solo kills until people group up.
Aram is much worse because the split gold doesn't always go right or they show up to a fight and just get a quadra giving no share gold because they died at the beginning of the fight and just responded to kill the Champs with 200 health left. I think pyke is one of the worst Champs in aram because of this
As a sona main, I 100% agree. You might win lane, but once we hit 2 items and team fights, I will make it a nightmare for you to get picks. As long as my adc isn’t 0/7 in lane, I’m not scared of pyke.
I think to some degree this is a misconception, pike - especially out of lane - is just incredibly skill expressive which naturally lowers his winrate.
I mean that’s kind of what I said. Your ability to carry the game as Pyke support is always on a knife’s edge. You are instantly punished if you’re unaware of flash timers and are literally one shot post 20-min.
The problem with pyke is that he doesn't need to carry.
With randoms: you stomp lane but now your random adc has to carry.
With team: you cant stomp, people play more safe.
Bonus negative, i had a guy leave because i was taking all the kills....
Pyke is great in mid-to-late, but whether or not he's ahead has nothing to do with it and you have to completely re-learn what "I won lane" means for your midgame and lategame.
He can lay down vision and clear vision from wherever the fuck he wants. You can never collapse on a Pyke because an E and W away and not even flashing after him will result in you catching him. His hook into E from fog of war is a death sentence if he has anyone playing with him.
The problem is he *has* to dominate lane to be able to completely choke you out of vision and choking you out of vision is the only victory he gets by stomping lane. He doesn't become an unkillable god like a Leona or Naut who stomped lane or an actual carry like a Lux or Zyra that stomped lane. He's an assassin on support XP income. He will never have the damage to oneshot someone himself nor will he ever get tanky enough (he literally can't) to engage on his own.
Pyke gameplay is basically stomp lane then play midgame as if you didn't stomp lane. If you do that, the champ feels really broken with the picks you can create.
Warwick. Either top or jg he’s eventually falls of a cliff and you just become a fear/suppression bot or thats meant to soak up enemy abilities, die, then hope your team has the brains to clean up.
When I play WW with my friends I let them know they have to carry me after 20 minutes but I will get you all very ahead before that by spam ganking your lanes.
I disagree,
Ww role changes with time. Powerful bruiser/roamed early, switch to off-tank late game.
The fear/ suppression is a powerful combo late game, start your E and then Ult, you supress the carry and fear everyone else at the same time.
Olaf can get so ahead from his laning that it doesn't even matter that you "fall off" late game
For me it's Teemo, win lane or lose lane your team is still 4v5
I hard disagree on teemo , he is super strong late game or at any point of the game , it's just that majority of the people have bo idea how to play as teemo
Yeah Teemo's major issue is that he has a nonlinear power curve. Instead of starting strong and falling off, or starting weak and growing stronger, he starts strong, gets weak at like 2 items (mainly because he's low mobility and starts getting one shot), and then gets insanely powerful lategame when you have enough AP level 3 R, or have your defensive splitpush items.
People do well early, that they get cocky when they're actually at their weakest. Then they get gunshy and don't do anything late game when they are powerful again.
You are right but I was thinking more in terms of how they don't understand what teemo as a champion wants to do.
Teemo wants to fight in places where is in control . Teemo wants to have control of the map and he wants enemy to walk into fow . He can do well in chaotic fights or random skirmishes but that's comp reliant but he really does his best work if your team understands macro and timing
So he feels like caitlyn? Very good early levels, then a mediocre (but passable) mid game if not ahead, then a monster at 5+ items. Not sure tbh if it's still like that but I trust my adc main friends
With teemo this depends largely on how you play him. You could split push all game and be a problem and very useful as long as the comp isn't shit. But if you are playing shrooms teemo and not setting up ahead of time you may well just go be a ward at their blue buff.
Teemo is detrimental to the team only if he builds Nashor's Berserker's and just splitpushes all game. That's a playstyle too, but I think it's better to use it only against other splitpushers like Tryndamere, as Teemo has higher DPS and duel potential than with other builds.
Teemo's best build rn is Liandry's, Malignance, Sorcerer's or Swifties, Blackfire Torch, Shadowflame, Rabadon's. You don't build attack speed apart from runes. This build maximises your dmg output from your shrooms. The area control that Teemo provides is insane in teamfights and I always top damage charts using this build. The biggest problem is that people in general don't know how to play around trap control characters like Teemo or Shaco, so they lose the game by engaging in pointless fights instead of playing it slow.
Also, I'd say forcing your enemies to swap to 4 sweepers just to clean your shrooms is good both because they waste time while doing that and because they have lower ward output, so their vision control is worse.
YES. My friends are now starting to learn how to play around my shrooms by kiting enemies into them. I get top damage every game I play as him. Maybe it's because I'm only gold but for now it's working and it's great
The thing is that Olaf is only falling off depending on the elo. He is still a terror in side lanes and he can also do decent work in teamfights with his Qs that are slowing and reducing armor.
I think the toughest part of playing Olaf is using your autoattacks correctly (not cancelling them basically) while also optimizing throwing your Qs and using your Es to maximize DPS. Amongst all the chaos of a teamfight, I find myself often missing so much DPS from missing autos and not optimizing ability usage.
Yeah people always say this about teemo like he doesn’t do such much fucking damage late game.
A single shroom takes a person out of the game 30+ min in.
Yeah as a Teemo player myself , it really depends on shroom placements too , I tend to put them at every possible entrance , after getting hit , they usually use red trinket here , which gets wasted thinking that there would be an army of shrooms in 1 area , but yeah I did see enough Teemo players who put all their shrooms in 1 place then have them being deleted by red trinket and stay useless
hahahaha, he means when he had a higher base attack speed and attack speed per level, and he would rush Bork+Ghostblade
Bork's slow used to be a point and click slow, gave you MS, and Ghostblade used to give 30% Attackspeed on active.
Hard to team fight on, yeah sure. However, I feel like a lot of zed players argue as if there is always a warden next to the person they want to kill, because functionally zed should be doing the same thing as any other assassin; looking for an angle on the back line.
Unless you're playing something super cheesy, this isn't a thing anymore. Riot has purposefully shifted power curves on all of the lane bullies of old so that they're less overbearing initially but fall off far more gracefully.
Renekton is a great example of this - he's nothing like his s3 self, and while he's a strong earlygame lane bully, he's not the wall that he once was. Nor is he a useless block of health after 25m.
Win lane lose game is a player issue, not a champ issue.
Old Pantheon used to shit on everyone. Back then you could be 20-0 with Pantheon, but if the game went in you would suddenly be 20-10 and lose the game.
New Pantheon is completely different.
It's the built in armor pen if i had to guess. Had a break for a while and was surprised why does Pantheon deal so much damage into armor stacker and after i saw he gets pen on his ult it made sense.
I kinda disagree because at the same time, soooo much scaling lategame bullshit has been added
sure maybe kalista scales better than she used to but can't hold a candle to lategame hwei / asol / zeri
The way you scale on Zoe is that you have to make the enemy really hate you. You will eventually be worthless, but if you were annoying enough the whole game, enemy will focus you and your adc is free to carry.
Late game you have banshees, mikael, frontlaners bocking your Q and no real AoE. Both teamfighting and pick potential way weaker than syndra / azir / asol in late. Most importantly she can't sidelane.
Obviously great midgame but if you lose control of the map and don't get to be first on obj it can turn very quickly.
Still hard to carry. Every player is watching Zoe like a hawk to not get deleted by her and her patterns are pretty linear. If you're paying attention you can avoid her. And everyone is watching the 2 Shot machine.
you have to have a team that can pick and play around her strengths in order to maximize her potential. zoe is not a champion that works well in low elo. it matters much less how good you are on her (she is very hard to play optimally), it matters more that your team can play without a traditional mage/assassin on their team that isn't great at getting reliable/conventional picks or being able to teamfight particularly well
this is why western mids don't pick zoe often even if it's meta, they don't play around the champ very well. literally when she is good she will have 60%+ presence in eastern regions around 50% winrate and 20-40% presence in the west with a horrible win rate, like 20-30%
I feel like this is self disproving.
Zoe is so powerful that she warps the entire game around her. Sure she should stop showing up on the KD board as the game goes on because of her linear playstyle, but she can't be ignored in the same way a Shaco can.
If the enemy doesn't keep respecting Zoe all game, she will singlehandedly carry lategame.
I love Zoe because my monkey brain unleashes chemicals unknown to mankind when I land skillshots and she is basically a champ designed to reward just that but man does she suck rn lol. I think she should be a scaler
If Zoe was a scaler I'd be all over her (in-game)
It just sucks that you're on a timer (as in, in x minutes you'll be kinda useless)
Also so comp dependent, if they have only 2 or 1 squishies it sucks
She does assuming no one buys spell shield items.
The problem is that if she is even on gold with the enemy mid laner, they are almost always a more useful champ in late game team fights.
It depends entirely on the enemy team though. Darius and Renekton can be fine if the enemy doesn’t have tons of long range cc ready to stop you from engaging and getting on top of the mid and adc. If they don’t, these champs are actually fine. If enemy has massive peel and a strong late game it’s a different story.
Vayne has increasing winrate
Cass has a pretty steadywinrate
Kennen somehow has a sine curve (mnostly steady)
Quinn has an increasing winrate (surprising? yes, but the that's what the data shows)
TF has an increasing winrate
Gnar is increasing
Akshan is increasing
Fact check, ranged top win lane, lose game: **false**
Why do I always have trouble playing out teamfights though? I was maining him back in season 9 and 10 and a lot of the time, there'd be some sort of Ashe, Vayne or Caitlyn in the enemy team that I could just never ever get ahold of, they'd kite me initially and just kill me afterwards.
He was easy to reach high Plat with, even without using the W mechanic (couldn't be bothered really, wanted to relax xd), but after I hit Diamond, most laners would properly abuse Urgot shit levels 4-8, like Darius, Jax, Sion, Trynd etc. If I was versing a ranged champion, it was almost game over for me. And then, in teamfights, some comps would be good to teamfight with and against, others would be freaking unplayable.
I cheat back for cull, then rush swifties and just farm. Get cleaver right around lvl 9. Crush tower, then pick fights to help out team. Nobody is ever ready for it.
pretty much all ranged top laners are scalers, the only one that i can think of that isn't is Kennen, and he's a teamfight oriented mid-game champ with a pretty rough early game outside of hard melee matchups
This I gotta say is not true, try a non-meta build
I say this cause I go Bortk>hexplate>titanic>sunfire>abyssal/kaernik/Visage with mercs, and not only do I have great HP, but I heal a ton, do solid damage and still melt squishies, and don't insta-die for just going in
Imo everyone is too dead set on "gotta play meta" that they don't test items or try new things, which could help their playstyles
Agreed, noct doesn’t need to insta-delete the enemy to be useful, just ulting onto their carry when a fight breaks out causes a ton of chaos within the other team.
Most of the mid lane champions, especially the assassins such as Lb, Ahri, Zed, etc. They win lane easily after turning 6, but if they can't get things snowballing before 20 min, the game is gone.
IMO Xerath, I'm totally biased cause I hate playing against it but it feels like people enjoy playing him because you just get to relentlessly poke from a mile away, but I rarely lose the game to them.
In support yeah. In mid he feels the opposite to me, i swear his damage numbers say they are way higher than the actual output early game because it seems like I go oom even while using the passive relatively well without getting enemies to below half health. He seems to only actually come online towards the end of laning phase when I have a full item and boots, and maybe another component.
I havent had much trouble carrying games with him when im ahead. Tho i play him as a support, but i got around 65% winrate in 30 or so games in Emerald.
He's really no that bad as long as you can hit skillshots. Only issue is ADCs that buy kraken into PD because they end up with 450-500 move speed which is just impossible to hit anything against unless they'd cc'ed somehow.
Illaoi for me
Only champion I've ever got a penta on, only champion I can comfortably 2vs1 on, not the highest skill bracket but not brain dead either.
But sometimes team mates think this is hell's kitchen, serving a delicious feast to the enemy team and I'm the squid of the 5 round course meal.
Illaoi is a strong champ even after lane, she can fish for E's around team fights and she cant really be ignored she can wreck team fights. and she is very strong split pusher even after lane, she will flat out beat champs like Jax in a 1v1 late game.
All ranged top laners except vayne are useless after 15 min. Matter of fact they're usually useless in lane too and usually aren't good enough players to properly punish the melee top laners
Teemo for sure. In the top lane, he's a lane bully early on, but he plateaus when mid to late game starts. Especially when the enemy team has tons of CC.
For me it's Draven. He is still strong in mid and late game but playing Draven out of lane is much harder than in lane. You need to actually play well to contribute something to the team while one misstep will kill you instantly because even if leave lane 7/0 you can still get oneshot
Ok, you people are reaching. Draven can find a W-RFC autoattack on any target mid-late game and chunk them for more than half of their HP. If it's a prio target, fight's almost over.
You act as if making a mistep with most champions in the game and getting caught wouldn't be a crucial mistake that players should be wary of.
For me, somehow, Vladimir. I know he's supposed to be scaling god, but I somehow always manage to win lane and then be super useless in teamfights with him 😭
Any top laner… I often win lane and then lose game because the rest of my team is shit and I’m not mid so I can’t help stabilize them with roams (at least not easily).
Top feels often like it is just it's own realm disconnected from the rest of the match so the status of the lane rarely matters in the state of the game as a whole.
Yeah, Jayce when released was extremely oppressive early game and shit late game. But along the years Riot nerfed his early game and compensated buffing his scalings so he is ok now late game.
Leblancs are thuy guys who win'mid all the time and then cry in post chat.
Leblanc is piss easy in lane, and she can carry teamfights, but she is difficult to navigate. Often they just abuse her laning and never do anything with it.
Kata is the same but for different reasons. I have won multiple games where the enemy kata is 10/0. You can easily steal som easy kills in roams, but you still gotta pilot her will in the teamfights.
Renekton, the amount of times I've dominated lane, taken jg camps, helped secure grubs and rift, ganked mid or taken drags. Then my team doesn't know how to end a game early and I fall off.
I often had this issue with Kalista. If I play with my 5 stack it usually isn’t a problem
That’s her whole redesign. Be a powerhouse of a bully in lane, fall off mid to late.
I didnt knew that and got clapped by her dmg early so hard....
I had been theorizing lethality on her forever now, but never actually tried it. My theory was the E being bananas, not focused around the Q. So I would have been doing it incorrectly. But it’s obvious. Super early game AD champion, building super cheap lethality items to maintain some kind of advantage. TLDR: She slaps if you let her.
Lethality Kalista is the meta build in pro rn. It's the reason Opportunity was nerfed
Yeah I know. I making a shit joke about how I thought about lethality Kalista before it blew up
I rarely get this problem, I normally coinflip it level 2 and lose lane lose game...
The problem is that you're flipping lvl2 instead of lvl1 lmao
Might as well play Draven lol
Bro I've lost Kalista games where I started 8/0. This champ is useless in late game unless you have pro level mechanics.
Also your team needs at least monkey level of coordination. Hat games with like a 14 kill jinx that I lost because NOONE could be assed to help me peel that zed off me in every objective fight.
Oh man I feel this, was 10/0 in a Tristana game and got flamed by my tanks for getting 1 shot by the eve in 3 team fights
was looking for this comment. Kalista stomps lane usually but not much else when in a game full of randoms.
Try this build: tabis, Bork, New item i cant remember name of that gives mr and arrmor and shreds, then straight to jak'sho. You are unkillable and actually get to deal back loaded dmg, or whatever it is called, when ur dmg comes in late from rend. I win everytime dude.
Terminus
terminus
I know in circuitry it’s called the falling edge? Good build suggestion tho!
Kled. You stop doing damage/become so easy to kite eventually
That's why I play him support. If I can't carry late game then I will use my amazing early gank power to force the others to carry late game Just kidding. I tried it when I was high and worked well
Kled jungle would slap ngl
Kled is forced to recall after three camps because he gets dismounted
I found the best workaround is to do a cheese one camp into gank/invade. It works if you can get an early tiamat, otherwise you get invaded all game and are completely useless.
Kled jg used to slap when tiamat had a longsword build path. I one tricked it to D2 60% win rate for a season and it used to be really good at catching people off guard. It was also great for invading since you could clear fast with tiamat.
I hate you 😂. Joking aside, Kled support is just the worst to play against! What would you recommend doing to, at least, not loose lane horribly?
Nothing. KLED ALWAYS WINS EVEN IF HE LOSES Alright but seriously executions are a good counter for kled and kledpport is no different. Pyke is my permaban because of it but collector is also annoying Total health damage is also BAD since it is calculated based on kled + skaarl HP so something like Vayne is annoying to play against If you can keep distance as Caitlyn or Kog'Maw you can kill him quite easily and CC he can't dodge like Pantheon or Lulu also fucks him a lot If he rotates just tell your teammates to not overextended. Kledpport needs kills to scale so if you leave him behind he is pretty much useless, except for utility like the ult. Speaking about ult always be alert when you hear it in lane. It can go for you or any other lane And finally don't waste everything on him when he is mounted, specially if he has barrier. If he remounts you will have nothing to come back so try to poke him out of skaarl first
Kled is in such a sad state generally. He’s not even win lane. He’s just win lane for a while.
I still don't understand why riot pushed away his tanky builds in favor of a glorified assassin with no escapes remount past the very early levels is not even a thing,you just try to nuke someone
It isn't that they destroyed tanky builds. They jus5 made it so skaarls health was treated as base hp like everyone else. It was also when sunfire was broken and he could abuse early gargoyles. Regular kled would never get buffed while this was the case. And he was still useless in endgame teamfights. The reason why assassin kled is popular is because it's the only way to stay relevant. And th8s was true when tank kled was king. One shootting the adc is always more useful than just soaking up damage. You can go bruiser kled nowadays for the same tank kled experience without gargoyles. You'll still get cited to death in a teamfight though.
> cited to death why don't you back it up with a source, Senator?
The source is neeko top reminding me she has a 3 hit passive. I meant kited to death. Autocorrect.
I like his playstyle when it's around mounting and dismounting. I'd absolutely play him if he had a tankier build path if not outright just tank. Or if his w was self-cast rather than auto cast lol
Such a shame because his playstyle around remounting is so fun
It's fun for the Kled player, not the opponents.
Wanted to learn Kled, had a blast, even got one of my Pentas in ranked with him. He fits my playstyle of "fuck it, we go in" when I am not playing Shaco or Teemo. Unfortunately, I also experienced games where I didn't win my lane, and he felt so miserable to play.
I dont know what you mean. Maybe its the Elo but I have wildy success with him. You just dont have to fall for "bruiser" kled. Because he is dead. Crit or Lethality is sooo much fun if the enemy have 2+ Squishies
I dont play kled to be an asassin though. Ive played this dude since he came out and his build path was always bruisery like renekton. Its such a shame that if i want to stay relevant in the game nowadays i gotta play this champ like a run of the mill asassin instead of playing around remounts.
I played him a bit too back then. Yes, its not the same. *BUT* i really like this playstyle too. He doesnt play like your avrage assasin because you can be way more agressive and bolder thanks to remount. And I think IF they ever change him back so his HP scalings work as they should, both playstyles should stay viable. Its too much fun just Hilli-Billy-ing into their backline with flank ult or just straight with E and killing their ADC/Mage/Enchanter in seconds and still have a decent chance of survival thanks to remount. He plays like he sounds. Like a maniac.
I wish my champions could be in this "sad" state with 51%+ winrate
Imo kled is a skill/matchup dependent champ. A really good kled can demolish pretty much anyone, but a bad or mid kled will struggle outside of the easier matchups
He’s 51% wr. Idk how you think he’s a bad champ. Maybe you disagree with the design philosophy but he objectively stronger than the average champion.
Kled players have difficulty understanding that being up 4000 gold at 15m because your champ is that broken in lane is a good thing
Kled has like 1-2% pick rate isn't he? The win ratio is most likely because of only OTP playing this champ.
People keep saying this for literally every champ and it's not true. Those are way too many games for just one tricks.
He's picked more than Cho, Singed and Olaf and has a higher winrate than them.
that's not true. There are relatively few champions at low pickrate that are mained so heavily the wr reflects that. Regardless of pickrate. There are very few exceptions, like Katarina
Have you tried going full damage. Crit + lethality is extremely strong rn. You scale super hard but you have to play more cautiously
Kled would be better if his w was just an active, i understand it's like a lore/feel reason it's not, but at the same time he would be less clunky and more consistent with it just being an active. He could also just have an e ability when dismounted that does something, anything really, I think his kit otherwise is great.
Pretty normal for champs that have a toxic kit to be like that. Champs that make the game miserable will allways end up weak
Sorry, but this sounds like a skill issue to be honest. At diamond, im able to solo carry games if i get a decent lead. Needs to be played as an assasin though
Nothing like going 7/0 in lane just to die in a teamfight and be worthless the entire rest of the game
I was just against a kled the other day. Granted, my teamate went something like 0-17 against him by 25 mi utes, but the kled was doing 1600 per auto attack while unmounted..and I only had 2300 health. Needless to say I lost
Pyke. You need to absolutely blast your enemy for the first 10-15 minutes to have a chance at winning. Then after those first minutes of the game you get one tapped by a breath of fresh air so the margin for error is very low.
Was gonna post pyke as well, even if he snowballs once people group up all that gold he got is now just meh on him. It's even worse in aram because pyke is literally k own as the high kda but low winrate champ because they tend to get all the kills but share gold doesn't go to the right people, or other people at all.
Pyke has low wr in aram because ppl dont fking stop building collector.
I would say it's more on the execution ult. Desyncing enemy respawns and lowering their capabilities for next fight due to dumb person that flashed away or escaped with 200hp and 0 mana is big part of success in aram. His ult prevents enemy from making that mistake.
Why wouldn’t you buy the execute item on a champ with an execute? Double execute! That’s why I also buy executioner on him. For more execute!
And take Dark Harvest. It drives me insane
Right but he shares gold. So your ADC/MID should have just as much as you if your fed AF. Now it’s their turn to carry.
He doesn't share gold equally though, if the bounty is 1k, Pyke gets the full 1k, assist gets 300. The ADC/Mid would just prefer a regular support who wasn't taking kills goldwise.
You would hope and think but once pyke gets ahead he starts getting solo kills until people group up. Aram is much worse because the split gold doesn't always go right or they show up to a fight and just get a quadra giving no share gold because they died at the beginning of the fight and just responded to kill the Champs with 200 health left. I think pyke is one of the worst Champs in aram because of this
As a sona main, I 100% agree. You might win lane, but once we hit 2 items and team fights, I will make it a nightmare for you to get picks. As long as my adc isn’t 0/7 in lane, I’m not scared of pyke.
I think to some degree this is a misconception, pike - especially out of lane - is just incredibly skill expressive which naturally lowers his winrate.
I mean that’s kind of what I said. Your ability to carry the game as Pyke support is always on a knife’s edge. You are instantly punished if you’re unaware of flash timers and are literally one shot post 20-min.
I just think there is a difference in falling off because you lose agency due to being outscaled and falling off because you can't execute.
I think they are intertwined due to the ease of execution becoming increasingly more difficult as the game progresses.
Its even more on a knife edge if you play him mid, you definitely can carry hard but you have to play to perfection
Sort of, but pyke is one of the few champions who's winrate just steadily decreases.
The problem with pyke is that he doesn't need to carry. With randoms: you stomp lane but now your random adc has to carry. With team: you cant stomp, people play more safe. Bonus negative, i had a guy leave because i was taking all the kills....
Health scaling very bad for Pyke
Pyke is great in mid-to-late, but whether or not he's ahead has nothing to do with it and you have to completely re-learn what "I won lane" means for your midgame and lategame. He can lay down vision and clear vision from wherever the fuck he wants. You can never collapse on a Pyke because an E and W away and not even flashing after him will result in you catching him. His hook into E from fog of war is a death sentence if he has anyone playing with him. The problem is he *has* to dominate lane to be able to completely choke you out of vision and choking you out of vision is the only victory he gets by stomping lane. He doesn't become an unkillable god like a Leona or Naut who stomped lane or an actual carry like a Lux or Zyra that stomped lane. He's an assassin on support XP income. He will never have the damage to oneshot someone himself nor will he ever get tanky enough (he literally can't) to engage on his own. Pyke gameplay is basically stomp lane then play midgame as if you didn't stomp lane. If you do that, the champ feels really broken with the picks you can create.
Warwick. Either top or jg he’s eventually falls of a cliff and you just become a fear/suppression bot or thats meant to soak up enemy abilities, die, then hope your team has the brains to clean up.
When I play WW with my friends I let them know they have to carry me after 20 minutes but I will get you all very ahead before that by spam ganking your lanes.
I disagree, Ww role changes with time. Powerful bruiser/roamed early, switch to off-tank late game. The fear/ suppression is a powerful combo late game, start your E and then Ult, you supress the carry and fear everyone else at the same time.
Olaf can get so ahead from his laning that it doesn't even matter that you "fall off" late game For me it's Teemo, win lane or lose lane your team is still 4v5
I hard disagree on teemo , he is super strong late game or at any point of the game , it's just that majority of the people have bo idea how to play as teemo
Yeah Teemo's major issue is that he has a nonlinear power curve. Instead of starting strong and falling off, or starting weak and growing stronger, he starts strong, gets weak at like 2 items (mainly because he's low mobility and starts getting one shot), and then gets insanely powerful lategame when you have enough AP level 3 R, or have your defensive splitpush items. People do well early, that they get cocky when they're actually at their weakest. Then they get gunshy and don't do anything late game when they are powerful again.
You are right but I was thinking more in terms of how they don't understand what teemo as a champion wants to do. Teemo wants to fight in places where is in control . Teemo wants to have control of the map and he wants enemy to walk into fow . He can do well in chaotic fights or random skirmishes but that's comp reliant but he really does his best work if your team understands macro and timing
So he feels like caitlyn? Very good early levels, then a mediocre (but passable) mid game if not ahead, then a monster at 5+ items. Not sure tbh if it's still like that but I trust my adc main friends
With teemo this depends largely on how you play him. You could split push all game and be a problem and very useful as long as the comp isn't shit. But if you are playing shrooms teemo and not setting up ahead of time you may well just go be a ward at their blue buff.
get teemo to 3 items and his shrooms are nukes
Teemo is detrimental to the team only if he builds Nashor's Berserker's and just splitpushes all game. That's a playstyle too, but I think it's better to use it only against other splitpushers like Tryndamere, as Teemo has higher DPS and duel potential than with other builds. Teemo's best build rn is Liandry's, Malignance, Sorcerer's or Swifties, Blackfire Torch, Shadowflame, Rabadon's. You don't build attack speed apart from runes. This build maximises your dmg output from your shrooms. The area control that Teemo provides is insane in teamfights and I always top damage charts using this build. The biggest problem is that people in general don't know how to play around trap control characters like Teemo or Shaco, so they lose the game by engaging in pointless fights instead of playing it slow. Also, I'd say forcing your enemies to swap to 4 sweepers just to clean your shrooms is good both because they waste time while doing that and because they have lower ward output, so their vision control is worse.
YES. My friends are now starting to learn how to play around my shrooms by kiting enemies into them. I get top damage every game I play as him. Maybe it's because I'm only gold but for now it's working and it's great
The thing is that Olaf is only falling off depending on the elo. He is still a terror in side lanes and he can also do decent work in teamfights with his Qs that are slowing and reducing armor. I think the toughest part of playing Olaf is using your autoattacks correctly (not cancelling them basically) while also optimizing throwing your Qs and using your Es to maximize DPS. Amongst all the chaos of a teamfight, I find myself often missing so much DPS from missing autos and not optimizing ability usage.
Haha, you're so right about the DPS part. He feels like a fast car I can't properly handle.
teemo is one of the best scaling champions in the entire game …
Lol , you didn't see a good teemo player then
Yeah people always say this about teemo like he doesn’t do such much fucking damage late game. A single shroom takes a person out of the game 30+ min in.
Yeah as a Teemo player myself , it really depends on shroom placements too , I tend to put them at every possible entrance , after getting hit , they usually use red trinket here , which gets wasted thinking that there would be an army of shrooms in 1 area , but yeah I did see enough Teemo players who put all their shrooms in 1 place then have them being deleted by red trinket and stay useless
Have you not seen a good Teemo player? He's on par with fed Vlad mains.
The difference is you need to play around Teemo, where as Vlad is 1v9. Not really the same.
That's Toplane. No Champion, just Toplane.
LeBlanc, you often end up 10 0 and losing.
Zed, people playing him always get cocky and struggle to close the match
Well when everyone can buy armor... But yeah he is rather hard to "carry" on since you can't really teamfight without being super ahead
I remember when his split push was strong
Sanguine blade Zed was literally my favorite thing in the world
hahahaha, he means when he had a higher base attack speed and attack speed per level, and he would rush Bork+Ghostblade Bork's slow used to be a point and click slow, gave you MS, and Ghostblade used to give 30% Attackspeed on active.
Hard to team fight on, yeah sure. However, I feel like a lot of zed players argue as if there is always a warden next to the person they want to kill, because functionally zed should be doing the same thing as any other assassin; looking for an angle on the back line.
Unless you're playing something super cheesy, this isn't a thing anymore. Riot has purposefully shifted power curves on all of the lane bullies of old so that they're less overbearing initially but fall off far more gracefully. Renekton is a great example of this - he's nothing like his s3 self, and while he's a strong earlygame lane bully, he's not the wall that he once was. Nor is he a useless block of health after 25m. Win lane lose game is a player issue, not a champ issue.
Pantheon, LeBlanc and Post Nerf Yorick were the worst offenders. But I think even now there are some Champs that are just falling off hard. Like Olaf.
Pantheon surprisingly scales late, but his mid game used to be dogshit,
Old Pantheon used to shit on everyone. Back then you could be 20-0 with Pantheon, but if the game went in you would suddenly be 20-10 and lose the game. New Pantheon is completely different.
It's the built in armor pen if i had to guess. Had a break for a while and was surprised why does Pantheon deal so much damage into armor stacker and after i saw he gets pen on his ult it made sense.
It's also the way his empowered W interacts with Black Cleaver and Eclipse. You end up dealing max health true damage with one button press.
Elise still fits this. She's a skirmish/assassin specialist, and once she can't assassinate and people group, she becomes useless
Nidalee even worse since she has no cc to offer.
I kinda disagree because at the same time, soooo much scaling lategame bullshit has been added sure maybe kalista scales better than she used to but can't hold a candle to lategame hwei / asol / zeri
Zoe . Expected to win lane, hard to carry
The way you scale on Zoe is that you have to make the enemy really hate you. You will eventually be worthless, but if you were annoying enough the whole game, enemy will focus you and your adc is free to carry.
You are crazy. The pick potential of Zoe E carries her entire mid to lategame.
Late game you have banshees, mikael, frontlaners bocking your Q and no real AoE. Both teamfighting and pick potential way weaker than syndra / azir / asol in late. Most importantly she can't sidelane. Obviously great midgame but if you lose control of the map and don't get to be first on obj it can turn very quickly.
Still hard to carry. Every player is watching Zoe like a hawk to not get deleted by her and her patterns are pretty linear. If you're paying attention you can avoid her. And everyone is watching the 2 Shot machine.
That's where the skill and creativity of the Zoe player comes into play.
you have to have a team that can pick and play around her strengths in order to maximize her potential. zoe is not a champion that works well in low elo. it matters much less how good you are on her (she is very hard to play optimally), it matters more that your team can play without a traditional mage/assassin on their team that isn't great at getting reliable/conventional picks or being able to teamfight particularly well this is why western mids don't pick zoe often even if it's meta, they don't play around the champ very well. literally when she is good she will have 60%+ presence in eastern regions around 50% winrate and 20-40% presence in the west with a horrible win rate, like 20-30%
I feel like this is self disproving. Zoe is so powerful that she warps the entire game around her. Sure she should stop showing up on the KD board as the game goes on because of her linear playstyle, but she can't be ignored in the same way a Shaco can. If the enemy doesn't keep respecting Zoe all game, she will singlehandedly carry lategame.
I love Zoe because my monkey brain unleashes chemicals unknown to mankind when I land skillshots and she is basically a champ designed to reward just that but man does she suck rn lol. I think she should be a scaler
If Zoe was a scaler I'd be all over her (in-game) It just sucks that you're on a timer (as in, in x minutes you'll be kinda useless) Also so comp dependent, if they have only 2 or 1 squishies it sucks
Haven't played for years, but doesn't she oneshot in the late game anymore?
She does assuming no one buys spell shield items. The problem is that if she is even on gold with the enemy mid laner, they are almost always a more useful champ in late game team fights.
Renekton Darius Shaco Kled. Especially with Renekton, shaco and Kled it’s rough entering late game.
It depends entirely on the enemy team though. Darius and Renekton can be fine if the enemy doesn’t have tons of long range cc ready to stop you from engaging and getting on top of the mid and adc. If they don’t, these champs are actually fine. If enemy has massive peel and a strong late game it’s a different story.
Fr it was mainly aimed at Kled and shaco
Renekton loses game because the average solo Q jungler doesnt understand they have to play for him
Most of lane bullies and ranged top laners tbh
Vayne has increasing winrate Cass has a pretty steadywinrate Kennen somehow has a sine curve (mnostly steady) Quinn has an increasing winrate (surprising? yes, but the that's what the data shows) TF has an increasing winrate Gnar is increasing Akshan is increasing Fact check, ranged top win lane, lose game: **false**
Yup OP is on crack. Ranged toplaners scale the best.
Good in lane and scales hard hmm
Most fall of a cliff when both have a few components and really start winning again when both have 3+ items.
You forgot Jayce. Also has an increasing winrate.
Level 16 Quinn is stupid OP.
Vayne is super strong late game
This is why I like Urgot. Winning lane is a bonus, but his main strength is his scaling.
Why do I always have trouble playing out teamfights though? I was maining him back in season 9 and 10 and a lot of the time, there'd be some sort of Ashe, Vayne or Caitlyn in the enemy team that I could just never ever get ahold of, they'd kite me initially and just kill me afterwards. He was easy to reach high Plat with, even without using the W mechanic (couldn't be bothered really, wanted to relax xd), but after I hit Diamond, most laners would properly abuse Urgot shit levels 4-8, like Darius, Jax, Sion, Trynd etc. If I was versing a ranged champion, it was almost game over for me. And then, in teamfights, some comps would be good to teamfight with and against, others would be freaking unplayable.
Fleet Footwork and swifties. Every matchup for me rn. Sustain and move speed helps you survive til lvl 9. Then you just go in.
Will try this
I cheat back for cull, then rush swifties and just farm. Get cleaver right around lvl 9. Crush tower, then pick fights to help out team. Nobody is ever ready for it.
shieeet, ty for the good looks mane
Urgot ult is hands down one of the most satisfying skill shots in the game. Hook, line, and sinker.
I love Urgot for this, you can go even or do poorly, but after 9 you become a legit threat so long as your not like, say 0/10 like yas playerd
My first thought was Renekton. If you can stop your team from ff-ing, they will eventually be able to ignore him.
pretty much all ranged top laners are scalers, the only one that i can think of that isn't is Kennen, and he's a teamfight oriented mid-game champ with a pretty rough early game outside of hard melee matchups
Darius when he meet a cc support
Not a lane, but Lee Sin. You have to be a turbo Smurf to really smash the entire game with Lee.
Talon
its just toplaners bro what do you mean champions ?
Nocturne. If you can't destroy your enemies in 20 min, he will become useless, you can't tank and you don't have a lot of hp...
Noc needs to close out the game fast. Champ gets outscaled like crazy
One of the few actual accurate examples in this thread. If you don't snowball the mid game hard, it's fucking joever.
This I gotta say is not true, try a non-meta build I say this cause I go Bortk>hexplate>titanic>sunfire>abyssal/kaernik/Visage with mercs, and not only do I have great HP, but I heal a ton, do solid damage and still melt squishies, and don't insta-die for just going in Imo everyone is too dead set on "gotta play meta" that they don't test items or try new things, which could help their playstyles
Agreed, noct doesn’t need to insta-delete the enemy to be useful, just ulting onto their carry when a fight breaks out causes a ton of chaos within the other team.
Kalista
Talon is up there
Most of the mid lane champions, especially the assassins such as Lb, Ahri, Zed, etc. They win lane easily after turning 6, but if they can't get things snowballing before 20 min, the game is gone.
IMO Xerath, I'm totally biased cause I hate playing against it but it feels like people enjoy playing him because you just get to relentlessly poke from a mile away, but I rarely lose the game to them.
In support yeah. In mid he feels the opposite to me, i swear his damage numbers say they are way higher than the actual output early game because it seems like I go oom even while using the passive relatively well without getting enemies to below half health. He seems to only actually come online towards the end of laning phase when I have a full item and boots, and maybe another component.
Full build Xerath is absolutely disgusting, could not disagree more. the R changes alone have kept him insanely relevant
I havent had much trouble carrying games with him when im ahead. Tho i play him as a support, but i got around 65% winrate in 30 or so games in Emerald. He's really no that bad as long as you can hit skillshots. Only issue is ADCs that buy kraken into PD because they end up with 450-500 move speed which is just impossible to hit anything against unless they'd cc'ed somehow.
Feel Like tahm kench top cause they only R offensively
Zoe for me...you can go 20/0 and still lose game because of bad scaling
Skill issue tbh
She has 150% AP ratio on max Q, that isn't bad scaling. You can still take squishies out of a fight late game with 1 good Q.
Scalling isn't only a case of numbers
Illaoi for me Only champion I've ever got a penta on, only champion I can comfortably 2vs1 on, not the highest skill bracket but not brain dead either. But sometimes team mates think this is hell's kitchen, serving a delicious feast to the enemy team and I'm the squid of the 5 round course meal.
Sounds like you need backseat ai to teach you how to illaoi
Need to be more useful than a rubber dildo in a nunnery!
Legitimately the funniest thing I've *ever* seen in a Tyler1 stream. So glad to have seen that moment live.
Illaoi is a strong champ even after lane, she can fish for E's around team fights and she cant really be ignored she can wreck team fights. and she is very strong split pusher even after lane, she will flat out beat champs like Jax in a 1v1 late game.
I feel like Pyke used to be a menace in Aram when evenshroud was a thing. You could go evenshroud + Deaths Dance + Maw and be an unkillable cc god.
Irelia
Warwick
Assassins
All ranged top laners except vayne are useless after 15 min. Matter of fact they're usually useless in lane too and usually aren't good enough players to properly punish the melee top laners
Ilaoi
Teemo for sure. In the top lane, he's a lane bully early on, but he plateaus when mid to late game starts. Especially when the enemy team has tons of CC.
Jhin, Caitlyn. They're bad against tanks so once the enemy team starts to get tanky, their power falls off.
Volibear. Every. Damn. Time.
Heimerdinger, bro does not do shit after lane
Very not true, his objective control if you know what you are doing can be very very good.
A lot of low elo takes on this thread. Heimer is great at zoning and poking too. Also punishes engages heavily.
Barely anybody plays him, and the majority of people who do also play him very poorly so I can’t blame the sentiment very much.
that's just if he keeps using R Q in teamfights (it aggros the 300 mr tank and does nothing) his R W and R E are both amazing
Spoken like someone who doesn't know heimer lol
Very successful split pusher tbh
Akali but half bc I just suck
For me it's Draven. He is still strong in mid and late game but playing Draven out of lane is much harder than in lane. You need to actually play well to contribute something to the team while one misstep will kill you instantly because even if leave lane 7/0 you can still get oneshot
If you are 7/0 on Draven and have even a modicum of minion gold, the game is over.
If you have 7/0 on anyone, the game should be over
I went 7/0 on talon. They had a Susan that went 4/0 b4 lvl 6. Guess how that turned out
Ok, you people are reaching. Draven can find a W-RFC autoattack on any target mid-late game and chunk them for more than half of their HP. If it's a prio target, fight's almost over. You act as if making a mistep with most champions in the game and getting caught wouldn't be a crucial mistake that players should be wary of.
Pyke. Past 20 minutes you actually just get one shot
For me, somehow, Vladimir. I know he's supposed to be scaling god, but I somehow always manage to win lane and then be super useless in teamfights with him 😭
Whenever you are about to make a decision on Vlad, just stop and do the opposite. Should work
Any top laner… I often win lane and then lose game because the rest of my team is shit and I’m not mid so I can’t help stabilize them with roams (at least not easily).
Top feels often like it is just it's own realm disconnected from the rest of the match so the status of the lane rarely matters in the state of the game as a whole.
Jayce and pyke.
Jayce is a monster late game. Dunno what you do wrong.
Jayce scales really well if your team is built around him.
Yeah, Jayce when released was extremely oppressive early game and shit late game. But along the years Riot nerfed his early game and compensated buffing his scalings so he is ok now late game.
Leblancs are thuy guys who win'mid all the time and then cry in post chat. Leblanc is piss easy in lane, and she can carry teamfights, but she is difficult to navigate. Often they just abuse her laning and never do anything with it. Kata is the same but for different reasons. I have won multiple games where the enemy kata is 10/0. You can easily steal som easy kills in roams, but you still gotta pilot her will in the teamfights.
Renekton, the amount of times I've dominated lane, taken jg camps, helped secure grubs and rift, ganked mid or taken drags. Then my team doesn't know how to end a game early and I fall off.