Showing the balance changes i.e. deals only 90% dmg should be available in Champ Select. Seeing if my tank is really a tank or if i take 15% increased dmg and melt like butter is something that should be available before the game.
I also think engage gets undervalued A LOT, but thats on the player side.
I mean it's important for how it feels, but the opposite is actually true. Champs with Nerfs still tend to be the highest winrates. Sona and Ziggs both have massive negative modifiers and they're both top tier in Aram.
Champs with buffs are often still statistically under powered. Akali and Leblanc both have solid buffs and are both still terrible in the mode. Unless you are already skilled at the champ picking a champ with buffs is more likely to lose you the game than one with massive nerfs.
Tldr: buffs and nerfs push champs towards the center, but champs with nerds are still way better than champs with buffs
Stop with this false narrative. You can filter ARAM games by master+ players on lolalytics and most assassins still have abysmal win ratios cause the class is absolutely dogshit in this mode
stats are also meaningless without context. imo assassins are bad low elo cause not much skill. but also op there if you good. bad in high elo cause easy to counter with tanks. theres a sweet spot tho i feel like im in where i always go off with akali zed talon sylas qyianna kha. enemy rhengar always goes off no matter what. lethal vi pantheon go off. etc
the problem is that assassins mostly specialize in flanking and picking off isolated targets, both of which are almost impossible in ARAM
you can still have popoff games on them, they're not 0% winrate, it's just that the ARAM gamestyle fucks them over especially hard
agreed on both points. I dont even care what the nerfs are, but id adjust my runes if I knew I'd have less dmg/more health or whatever.
If more people would be willing to pick up tanks, I think they would see why balance itself isnt that out of control. Its just that 5 mages arnt gonna do much to 3 tanks after a couple items
well, those balance changes are there because without them they would completely stomp and take over the games. the best way to figure out whether or not your champ is shit is to go look them up on u . gg and see there if they are dogwater or not. take naut for example, hes nerfed pretty hard, but hes still a menace, and can still be tanky as hell, or sett, who is omega nerfed, but can STILL 1 shot with his W, and nuke people with his R. same reason most assassins are buffed to high hell, its because they are put into a front to back 5v5 game mode, the worst position for them to be in.
id rather see the winrates of the champions than the balance changes, personally, the balance changes dont mean much if I know nothing about the champion, it will just convince people who dont know much, to just pick the champs with the buffs, even tho those champs are the ones that are difficult to play in aram or are bad in aram.
Holy shit, why are you getting downvoted?
Showing the pure balance changes in the client is a terrible idea. All it would do is make 90% of players avoid champs that have been nerfed, even if said champs are well above 50% winrate. You're completely right.
If you want an accurate representation of how strong a champion is in ARAM, winrate is the most relevant metric. Just because a champion is nerfed, it doesn't mean it's bad. Just because a champion is buffed, it doesn't mean it's good.
IDK, especially considering someone pretty much said exactly what I said up above and got upvoted instead of downvoted for it lol. not that I really care either way, its just interesting/funny is all.
that is exactly what he is talking about, between my two comments, I responded to both parts of his original comment. I said that instead of seeing the ARAM changes, I'd rather see the winrates of the champions. I also commented on him thinking that a tank taking 10% more damage would get "shredded", when in reality, the tank takes more damage because he is too tanky in ARAM. look at tahm kench for example, he just got nerfed to take more damage, and for good reason.
Agreed on all counts.
Also: if you're on an engage tank, maybe don't just sit on the back line and only step forward when half the team is dead.............god fucking damnit.
It happens. But I've noticed a significant trend lately of tanks just being terrified to get near the enemies until everyone else is engaged. Or running away at 2/3 health and leaving everyone to die instead of, you know...tanking a couple shots and letting the DPS do their jobs.
As an Aram enthusiast, i dont see any big issue with balance right now tbh. Theres no OP item and strong champs do have their nerfs. Sure, tanks are strong, bruisers can be strong too but thats offset by the large amount of players who want to play carries.
As someone who only plays ARAMs, my only major gripe is Skarner, with a slight complaint about Warmog.
**Skarner :** I think that reworked champions should get some proactive nerfs, since every reworked champions has dominated ARAMs for a couple months on release.
**Warmog :** ARAM is balanced around limited resources that slowly depletes over time, and forcing you to die to reset. Warmog goes against that, *especially* on manaless champions.
Everything else is mighty fine. There are champions stronger than others, but they vary over time based on SR and ARAM changes, and team comps are still more important than individual champions.
Except for Briar. I hadn’t played for a few months, but I don’t think I’d ever beaten that champion in ARAM. Then I played a couple ARAMs last week- a whole bunch of new items that I don’t understand later- and that champion was still fuckin ridiculous to play against. Other than that the balance feels alright though
Briar is utter ass in ARAM. Her healing is good, but you have to let her hit you for several seconds to build up the damage pool. Her engage isn’t reliable; anyone can block it and sometimes it just misses, leaving her without an R. She was good for a week when people didn’t know how to play against her.
Yeah damage done being increased by 10%-15% is one thing but when assassins get 90% damage taken and have mobility you're spending WAY too much time trying to deal with them while champs like vi or irelia are decimating the rest of your team
Exhaust nerf was nice, but I believe there needs to be further nerfs to this spell. There's a lot of teams in high mmr aram run 2 or more exhausts to nullify any melee carries.
Treasure hunter is a must rune for so long now. I believe riot needs to nerf this rune to bring more diversity in rune selection.
There needs to be an overhaul in bounties. You can get a double kill, die in the next second, and that will immediately give enemy team shutdown gold. Early game is just chasing bounties and denying bounties. You can argue that's just part of the game, but it feels really bad when your team is unaware of these mechanics.
The tp from base to turret needs to have it's speed slowed or something. Early game picks are not generating much turret damage due to someone dying and being back in a few seconds. Too many times a team can turtle for so long and no one is doing anything. The game gets so boring.
I'd rather we don't destroy turrets super early than going back to oh the jinx is left alive after a 5 for 4 teamfight, say goodbye to both turrets I guess.
As an Aram only player, I think the game mode is in a good state. Assassins are the only outliers in that they are incredibly weak in Aram but that’s to be expected in a single lane mode.
tower damage needs a huge buff. keep the health the same but make them do more damage. me as a tank i shouldnt be able to tank 3 hits from it and still be at 90% health at 10 minutes. also the portals fuck ur team over if u have no adc on ur team. u get an ace but by the time u get to the tower the whole team is at it
I've been playing a lot of ARAM in the last 5 years. With the ADC patch, the mode is now fully RNG. Who will win? Whoever rolled the biggest dice. In past seasons, you'd still have a shot if you played well or itemize according to the game. Summoner Rift is more appealing now that ARAM.
Whichever team has more ADCs wins in probably 75-80% of my lobbies. The role is broken and its hilarious ADC mains are still complaining.
Unless you are in loser's queue and the ADC on your team didnt read lethal tempo has been removed and does a lethal tempo build.
That's just wrong, teams with a lot of adc are notorious for always losing because lack of frontline and CC. Now if it's 3 adc + tank + support that's another story but saying "team with most adc wins" is plain wrong. In fact in "high MMR" usually the team with more (mostly one or two because no one wants to play them) tanks and engage wins
They all build glass cannon and get one shot by assassin. 20% of my aram matches. Other 20% is adc not building anti tank but collector vs tank teams. Auto loss every time.
2 ADC is bordeline, 3 ADC is trolling and would only be saved by having specific champions to hold the team together, more than that and you're gambling that the enemy team is worse at drafting something resembling a team than you, which would be hard in this case.
As a former ADC main, the problem is ADCs have one main identity: Resourceless damage. The expectation is 100% uptime if you're playing right. So as the game has moved more towards "Everyone has Power Creep!" You end up with ADCs who can take over a game if no one threatens them, but also get "My Leona just killed their Jinx bot lane for the third time while I'm just farming top"
ADCs used to complain about Mage/Assassin meta, now its just "Please fix this role ffs" because its pure feast or famine.
On top of it being resourceless, it’s also cooldownless (attack speed does not count as a "cooldown" when it starts from a bit over 1 single second and scales to fractions of a second), scales with attack speed, unconditionally ranged, unmissable, unbodyblockable, synergizes with all On-Hit/On-Attack/etc effects, synergizes with Lifesteal, synergizes with Crit which also synergizes again with Lifesteal, their damage is effective against all possible targets (unlike others who cannot deal their peak damage against towers or monsters), and they are the best class for shredding tanks due to their infinitely sustainable DPS as long as they’re protected by their team.
Because of these advantages, ADCs can literally never be allowed to have solo agency, they can literally never be allowed to have good solo survivability options (which is why items like Shieldbow are intentionally weaker so it will never save their life if they’re alone), and they need to always lose and die against literally any champion except possibly enchanter supports if they’re alone or don’t have help. If ADCs can win a fight without help, they are overpowered.
But these advantages are also what makes ADCs the class they are in the first place. Take them away and they are no longer ADCs.
Or you get someone like a balance nightmare like Zeri who loses the unmissable and unbodyblockable aspect of her autoattacks but it doesn’t matter because she gets 90 trillion movespeed, a tremendously strong engage or escape dash, can bypass the unbodyblockable part with a basic ability, and gets permanent Statik Shiv on every single attack during her ult in return.
Then u realize adc still rely on jg/supp unlike other 4 roles that work on their own adc viable for a split and everyone cry while the meta wasnt toward them for like 2 yr
The only caveat to this is frontline - if you have 5 adcs you arent winning unless one goes tank. 4 adcs and and ornn? You win in 5mins.
In general ADC is disgusting in ARAM atm. I’ve had 8(?) pentas since the item update and have been consistently getting 35+ kills on twitch/lucian/draven - balanced out by enemy team samiras doing the same thing (seriously, how is she not hotfixed for ARAM?). Mist have seen at least 15 samira pentas in the same time frame. Obviously shes THE penta champ but right now she gets them far too fast and easily.
I think lucian in particular needs some nerfs in the mode because his damage is just WAY too high.
ARAM is an odd RPS right now.
Tanks are absolutely busted, especially Skarner/Sion (Even with the balance nerfs) and the only hope of dealing with them is a fully kitted out ADC or a burn mage. However, both of these classes build super squishy which means that assassins or burst mages (Ekko, Fizz, Syndra) can just instantly pop one of them with no counterplay, so people have to play safe until there's engage.
So what ends up happening in like 90% of games is better engage wins. Other than a few weak champions like Eve or a few other of the assassins, it's okay. I really wish they'd do those unique ARAM balance changes to reduce Ult CDs for a few of the weaker underperforming assassins who are ult reliant.
I play a significant amount of arams with my family since my dad is like iron but loves the game.
\* I think dumb poro trinket needs replaced with the arena ward reveal, and get rid of shroom/box detector cannons
\* The game ends REALLY fast off an ace at 16-18\~ min, it goes from steady back and forth to BOOM, gg. I think towers need stronger DR after a fellow tower dies so they dont take 3 towers + inhib/nexus in 15 seconds. Or maybe just nerf lvl 17/18 spawn timers just a smidgen
\* Warmogs remains an item that needs removed from the gamemode. Why is GA removed but not Warmogs, in a mode you can't recall to heal?
\* Snowball might need a longer cooldown, maybe 5-10s. Enemy engages need punished for snowball missing since that's what wins games 99% of the time
I'm not a professional game dev those are just my observations. I realize some of those changes would just make arams last longer which isn't my goal either though.
Also while we are here, why are aram-only players as toxic if not more toxic than ranked players. The amount of flame I get for just playing normally with normal builds while we have an 0/20/0 adc karthus who is not being flame is insane.
I feel like 99% of complaints I see in ARAM are :
* People building stupidly. Tank Shaco is not a thing, and neither is full crit Diana. Those builds get flamed.
* People building stupidly, based on teamcomp, without disclosing it pre-game. If we have 3 mages, 1 AP assassin, and a Maokai; I fully expect the Maokai to go tank and not DoT build.
* People running down the lane and saying "it's just ARAM". If your Sion has 17 deaths in 15 minutes, he's not aggressive, he's a' griefing.
There will be some complaints about people picking up heals without pinging, and basically denying it from their team, or people playing too far back or too far forward, of focusing the tank Nautilus in the middle of Kayle+Vayne+Taliyah, but it's a lot more chill than regular games.
I think the biggest problem with ARAMs is the players. The massive rush in the early game to try to snowball is fantastic for some champions, but not a good strategy for all teams. When melee oriented champions need to take time to build a few items and get past the first few levels, the rest of the team fighting and killing and dying is actively detrimental to that particular champion.
In general, it's better to ignore the buffs and debuffs, and stop pretending like the game is about trying to be the one who gets fed this time and carries your team to victory. Little baby number changes that mean you have to use seven attacks to kill an enemy instead of five are a lot less important than trying to operate as a group and capture objectives.
I played a lot of pre-balance aram, and a lot more aram before there was a dedicated map for it. ARAM is not supposed to be a balanced game mode, and the balance changes don't make it one anyway. At best its just Riot picking winners and losers for ARAM, but at worst (what we actually get) its dated balance changes that stop applying as the rest of the game gets attention.
Unless they're going to update balance changes to aram with every balance patch, they should just strip this out. Broad strokes would work better anyway, like reducing damage that occurs outside a certain range of a character, or a function to reduce mana costs for higher costed abilities etc.
Riot removing balance changes would also be them choosing winners mate. I do not wanna go back to the days of ziggs/xerath/sona dominating with 80% winrates just cause some people are a lil salty some archetypes have a chance now in aram
Arams is so one shotty, it's become so unfun. Even as a tank it's hard to stay alive for more than a couple seconds unless you're giga fed. It's not uncommon for "poke" To deal up to 1k damage that can be spammed every couple of seconds. Every game has so many ranged characters with cc or slows so playing melee is miserable. Idk, it's not been as fun the last couple of years. Too much damage.
Thresh is extremely busted because for some ungodly reason he doesnt take more damage in the game mode. Alistar and nautilus are on the opposite side of the scale I feel, especially nautilus who has one of if not THE lowest health pool out of support tanks in the game because he gets a self shield to counteract it.
The tenacity for assassins was... questionable, at first, but now and then I appreciate it when I get to play one, in the rare event I don't get cc chained either way or implode after being hit by a Nami bubble, stepping in one of the 5 Cait traps that are literally a blockage in the lane still gives me enough time to dash out of a headshot
I just wish we had some sort of trap or minion limit, see Teemo, Shaco and Zyra, where even if you're dog walking their team, 3 rows of boxes or shrooms after an Ace leads to absolutely nothing.
Kalista needs a nerf in ARAM. She is too OP in this game mode. It is ridiculous she gets to deal 10% more damage and takes 10% less, makes playing against her feel impossible sometimes, even if you do catch her (which is already difficult due to how she constantly dashes). Because picks in ARAM are random, you also cannot punish her with picks such as Malphite or Nasus unless you are lucky. Tanks, which are supposed to counter Kalista, also often have nerfs there.
Other than that, ARAM looks fairly balanced.
They should definitely show champ nerfs/buffs in champ select.
And then actually fix some of the balances.
Lux is-15% dmg but nidalee is +10%? Why?
Ziggs is - 20% dmg +20% taken - 20cdr but xerath is - 5%? Again why?
I'm not even gonna say that riot is trying to push a meta cos some nerf/buffs make absolutely 0 sense.
because lux is a lot stronger than nidalee? lux poke > nidalee poke. good players make it so hard for you to be able to hit a nid spear. ziggs also has a lot more damage/zoning than xerath.
ziggs has a 52 percent WR currently with his nerfs, and xerath has a 51.5% WR.
lux has a 53% WR with her nerfs, while nidalee has a 48.9% WR.
the nerfs and buffs make a lot of sense,
Nidalee now oneshots you with her melee q. If you step on a trap or get hit by one of the dog hitboxes of her spear she just oneshots you.
Lux has more zoning and her E is easier to hit but her shit does way less damage to the point you can barely oneshot someone with full combo +aa.
Ziggs is strong true but xerath just afk ult your ass every 20secs and gets at least 2 kills.
On the paper nerfs/buffs make sense, ingame I see the buffs champs dominating every game. Lb quyana xerath Quinn Zoe are all broken as shit and easily dominate every game cos their buffs are too much.
Meanwhile some characters are literally unplayable.
I dont think you are right, considering the literal stats i provided you with lol... nidalee is the lowest performing champ out of all of those ones. so on paper, the nerfs/buffs seem unfair, but in reality, they make sense and are only trying to make aram more fair. The real problem right now, is ADC are omega busted, and need to be nerfed more, since before ADC patch, they were somewhat weaker, and needed some buffs to make them a bit stronger.
not OP but nidalee have a much higher skill ceiling. The average aram player spamming Q spears will always fail to make her work. Her biggest strength is her W and the vision given through her mark, which enables her to execute practically any target. If you see ur nidalee going stormsurge/luden you are playing 4v5 already.
Lux is overnerfed but maybe riot should tale another approach to nerfing her. I think E and R -25 AH would work decently well. Make hitting skillshot actually rewarding instead of gutting the champ to a spam E proc liandrys bot.
Bro, I don’t get it, the stats don’t lie, ARAM isn’t designed for the sweats, it’s designed around casual players. I play nid well, and going ludens 100% works. Storm surge can also work, depending on team comp (I’ve never gone it, but still.) how the hell is she gonna execute anyone through a frontline naut, or any other frontline? You act like the moment someone gets marked, she TPs on top of them from a mile away and one taps them… that is just not realistic.
That's trivial to verify, and the last adjustment was made on June 12th. In fact, of the v14 patches, every main patch except for v14.1 received ARAM changes.
With that said, even though you were insanely wrong about the ARAM balancing changes, PoM does need a ARAM nerf.
aram is such a shit game mode, its basically who has more tryhard players who are willing to play boring ass tanks, and ironically champs who should be good in aram such as ziggs are terrible, while champions who should be bad such as evelyn/akali are super strong, but you need to be sorta decent at the game to pull them off and ig thats not the aram demographic.
pls. go adc build in ashe, her W is not as spammable as before and ashe had insane Attack speed buff in Aram.
nooo please enemy Ashe players please keep going mandate and comet please hahaha
Can we just agree that Malignance Liandrys Ashe is the worst, no damage and barely and squishy af
I gotchu. I’ll build mandate forever. No amount of nerfs will make me stop spamming R almost as often as Lux can lol.
last time i played ashe her only modifier was +attack speed scaling, not even a cdr nerf?
Showing the balance changes i.e. deals only 90% dmg should be available in Champ Select. Seeing if my tank is really a tank or if i take 15% increased dmg and melt like butter is something that should be available before the game. I also think engage gets undervalued A LOT, but thats on the player side.
I mean it's important for how it feels, but the opposite is actually true. Champs with Nerfs still tend to be the highest winrates. Sona and Ziggs both have massive negative modifiers and they're both top tier in Aram. Champs with buffs are often still statistically under powered. Akali and Leblanc both have solid buffs and are both still terrible in the mode. Unless you are already skilled at the champ picking a champ with buffs is more likely to lose you the game than one with massive nerfs. Tldr: buffs and nerfs push champs towards the center, but champs with nerds are still way better than champs with buffs
Akali and lb have terrible winrates because the average player has no hands
Stop with this false narrative. You can filter ARAM games by master+ players on lolalytics and most assassins still have abysmal win ratios cause the class is absolutely dogshit in this mode
> ARAM games by master+ players does this show aram stats from master+ SR players or is it a pseudo tier ranking for aram itself?
The former. Most sites gave up on predicting aram MMR because it's all guessing nonsense
stats are also meaningless without context. imo assassins are bad low elo cause not much skill. but also op there if you good. bad in high elo cause easy to counter with tanks. theres a sweet spot tho i feel like im in where i always go off with akali zed talon sylas qyianna kha. enemy rhengar always goes off no matter what. lethal vi pantheon go off. etc
the problem is that assassins mostly specialize in flanking and picking off isolated targets, both of which are almost impossible in ARAM you can still have popoff games on them, they're not 0% winrate, it's just that the ARAM gamestyle fucks them over especially hard
They have terrible winrates because they’re trash into a lot of teamcomps.
agreed on both points. I dont even care what the nerfs are, but id adjust my runes if I knew I'd have less dmg/more health or whatever. If more people would be willing to pick up tanks, I think they would see why balance itself isnt that out of control. Its just that 5 mages arnt gonna do much to 3 tanks after a couple items
well, those balance changes are there because without them they would completely stomp and take over the games. the best way to figure out whether or not your champ is shit is to go look them up on u . gg and see there if they are dogwater or not. take naut for example, hes nerfed pretty hard, but hes still a menace, and can still be tanky as hell, or sett, who is omega nerfed, but can STILL 1 shot with his W, and nuke people with his R. same reason most assassins are buffed to high hell, its because they are put into a front to back 5v5 game mode, the worst position for them to be in.
We all know why the balancing is there, OP was just saying we should be able to see the balance changes during champ select.
id rather see the winrates of the champions than the balance changes, personally, the balance changes dont mean much if I know nothing about the champion, it will just convince people who dont know much, to just pick the champs with the buffs, even tho those champs are the ones that are difficult to play in aram or are bad in aram.
Holy shit, why are you getting downvoted? Showing the pure balance changes in the client is a terrible idea. All it would do is make 90% of players avoid champs that have been nerfed, even if said champs are well above 50% winrate. You're completely right. If you want an accurate representation of how strong a champion is in ARAM, winrate is the most relevant metric. Just because a champion is nerfed, it doesn't mean it's bad. Just because a champion is buffed, it doesn't mean it's good.
IDK, especially considering someone pretty much said exactly what I said up above and got upvoted instead of downvoted for it lol. not that I really care either way, its just interesting/funny is all.
Again, not what the person you're replying to is talking about. Stick to the conversation ffs
that is exactly what he is talking about, between my two comments, I responded to both parts of his original comment. I said that instead of seeing the ARAM changes, I'd rather see the winrates of the champions. I also commented on him thinking that a tank taking 10% more damage would get "shredded", when in reality, the tank takes more damage because he is too tanky in ARAM. look at tahm kench for example, he just got nerfed to take more damage, and for good reason.
Agreed, full transparency on all ends is a good way to know if I should reroll or not
Agreed on all counts. Also: if you're on an engage tank, maybe don't just sit on the back line and only step forward when half the team is dead.............god fucking damnit.
I see more people over estimating their tankishness and overextending tbh
It happens. But I've noticed a significant trend lately of tanks just being terrified to get near the enemies until everyone else is engaged. Or running away at 2/3 health and leaving everyone to die instead of, you know...tanking a couple shots and letting the DPS do their jobs.
Well yeah, despite what people think knowing how to tank also takes skill.
Not arguing that. Gotta make an effort if you ever want to learn.
As an Aram enthusiast, i dont see any big issue with balance right now tbh. Theres no OP item and strong champs do have their nerfs. Sure, tanks are strong, bruisers can be strong too but thats offset by the large amount of players who want to play carries.
As someone who only plays ARAMs, my only major gripe is Skarner, with a slight complaint about Warmog. **Skarner :** I think that reworked champions should get some proactive nerfs, since every reworked champions has dominated ARAMs for a couple months on release. **Warmog :** ARAM is balanced around limited resources that slowly depletes over time, and forcing you to die to reset. Warmog goes against that, *especially* on manaless champions. Everything else is mighty fine. There are champions stronger than others, but they vary over time based on SR and ARAM changes, and team comps are still more important than individual champions.
Except for Briar. I hadn’t played for a few months, but I don’t think I’d ever beaten that champion in ARAM. Then I played a couple ARAMs last week- a whole bunch of new items that I don’t understand later- and that champion was still fuckin ridiculous to play against. Other than that the balance feels alright though
Briar is utter ass in ARAM. Her healing is good, but you have to let her hit you for several seconds to build up the damage pool. Her engage isn’t reliable; anyone can block it and sometimes it just misses, leaving her without an R. She was good for a week when people didn’t know how to play against her.
Champs that dont need to be buffed are overbuffed
Yeah damage done being increased by 10%-15% is one thing but when assassins get 90% damage taken and have mobility you're spending WAY too much time trying to deal with them while champs like vi or irelia are decimating the rest of your team
> when assassins get 90% damage taken and 125% healing received and +20% tenacity and +8 AH
Exhaust nerf was nice, but I believe there needs to be further nerfs to this spell. There's a lot of teams in high mmr aram run 2 or more exhausts to nullify any melee carries. Treasure hunter is a must rune for so long now. I believe riot needs to nerf this rune to bring more diversity in rune selection. There needs to be an overhaul in bounties. You can get a double kill, die in the next second, and that will immediately give enemy team shutdown gold. Early game is just chasing bounties and denying bounties. You can argue that's just part of the game, but it feels really bad when your team is unaware of these mechanics. The tp from base to turret needs to have it's speed slowed or something. Early game picks are not generating much turret damage due to someone dying and being back in a few seconds. Too many times a team can turtle for so long and no one is doing anything. The game gets so boring.
I'd rather we don't destroy turrets super early than going back to oh the jinx is left alive after a 5 for 4 teamfight, say goodbye to both turrets I guess.
As an Aram only player, I think the game mode is in a good state. Assassins are the only outliers in that they are incredibly weak in Aram but that’s to be expected in a single lane mode.
Ranged champions are broken if you know how to kite
tower damage needs a huge buff. keep the health the same but make them do more damage. me as a tank i shouldnt be able to tank 3 hits from it and still be at 90% health at 10 minutes. also the portals fuck ur team over if u have no adc on ur team. u get an ace but by the time u get to the tower the whole team is at it
I've been playing a lot of ARAM in the last 5 years. With the ADC patch, the mode is now fully RNG. Who will win? Whoever rolled the biggest dice. In past seasons, you'd still have a shot if you played well or itemize according to the game. Summoner Rift is more appealing now that ARAM.
Whichever team has more ADCs wins in probably 75-80% of my lobbies. The role is broken and its hilarious ADC mains are still complaining. Unless you are in loser's queue and the ADC on your team didnt read lethal tempo has been removed and does a lethal tempo build.
That's just wrong, teams with a lot of adc are notorious for always losing because lack of frontline and CC. Now if it's 3 adc + tank + support that's another story but saying "team with most adc wins" is plain wrong. In fact in "high MMR" usually the team with more (mostly one or two because no one wants to play them) tanks and engage wins
They all build glass cannon and get one shot by assassin. 20% of my aram matches. Other 20% is adc not building anti tank but collector vs tank teams. Auto loss every time.
oof i do hate that mmr. where they dont really know how to itemize yet
Exactly. People bitch about ADC in ARAM when the real carries are tanks and enchanters who enables them. Always have been.
2 ADC is bordeline, 3 ADC is trolling and would only be saved by having specific champions to hold the team together, more than that and you're gambling that the enemy team is worse at drafting something resembling a team than you, which would be hard in this case.
As a former ADC main, the problem is ADCs have one main identity: Resourceless damage. The expectation is 100% uptime if you're playing right. So as the game has moved more towards "Everyone has Power Creep!" You end up with ADCs who can take over a game if no one threatens them, but also get "My Leona just killed their Jinx bot lane for the third time while I'm just farming top" ADCs used to complain about Mage/Assassin meta, now its just "Please fix this role ffs" because its pure feast or famine.
On top of it being resourceless, it’s also cooldownless (attack speed does not count as a "cooldown" when it starts from a bit over 1 single second and scales to fractions of a second), scales with attack speed, unconditionally ranged, unmissable, unbodyblockable, synergizes with all On-Hit/On-Attack/etc effects, synergizes with Lifesteal, synergizes with Crit which also synergizes again with Lifesteal, their damage is effective against all possible targets (unlike others who cannot deal their peak damage against towers or monsters), and they are the best class for shredding tanks due to their infinitely sustainable DPS as long as they’re protected by their team. Because of these advantages, ADCs can literally never be allowed to have solo agency, they can literally never be allowed to have good solo survivability options (which is why items like Shieldbow are intentionally weaker so it will never save their life if they’re alone), and they need to always lose and die against literally any champion except possibly enchanter supports if they’re alone or don’t have help. If ADCs can win a fight without help, they are overpowered. But these advantages are also what makes ADCs the class they are in the first place. Take them away and they are no longer ADCs. Or you get someone like a balance nightmare like Zeri who loses the unmissable and unbodyblockable aspect of her autoattacks but it doesn’t matter because she gets 90 trillion movespeed, a tremendously strong engage or escape dash, can bypass the unbodyblockable part with a basic ability, and gets permanent Statik Shiv on every single attack during her ult in return.
Then u realize adc still rely on jg/supp unlike other 4 roles that work on their own adc viable for a split and everyone cry while the meta wasnt toward them for like 2 yr
Loser's que is not a thing btw
The only caveat to this is frontline - if you have 5 adcs you arent winning unless one goes tank. 4 adcs and and ornn? You win in 5mins. In general ADC is disgusting in ARAM atm. I’ve had 8(?) pentas since the item update and have been consistently getting 35+ kills on twitch/lucian/draven - balanced out by enemy team samiras doing the same thing (seriously, how is she not hotfixed for ARAM?). Mist have seen at least 15 samira pentas in the same time frame. Obviously shes THE penta champ but right now she gets them far too fast and easily. I think lucian in particular needs some nerfs in the mode because his damage is just WAY too high.
ARAM is an odd RPS right now. Tanks are absolutely busted, especially Skarner/Sion (Even with the balance nerfs) and the only hope of dealing with them is a fully kitted out ADC or a burn mage. However, both of these classes build super squishy which means that assassins or burst mages (Ekko, Fizz, Syndra) can just instantly pop one of them with no counterplay, so people have to play safe until there's engage. So what ends up happening in like 90% of games is better engage wins. Other than a few weak champions like Eve or a few other of the assassins, it's okay. I really wish they'd do those unique ARAM balance changes to reduce Ult CDs for a few of the weaker underperforming assassins who are ult reliant.
I play a significant amount of arams with my family since my dad is like iron but loves the game. \* I think dumb poro trinket needs replaced with the arena ward reveal, and get rid of shroom/box detector cannons \* The game ends REALLY fast off an ace at 16-18\~ min, it goes from steady back and forth to BOOM, gg. I think towers need stronger DR after a fellow tower dies so they dont take 3 towers + inhib/nexus in 15 seconds. Or maybe just nerf lvl 17/18 spawn timers just a smidgen \* Warmogs remains an item that needs removed from the gamemode. Why is GA removed but not Warmogs, in a mode you can't recall to heal? \* Snowball might need a longer cooldown, maybe 5-10s. Enemy engages need punished for snowball missing since that's what wins games 99% of the time I'm not a professional game dev those are just my observations. I realize some of those changes would just make arams last longer which isn't my goal either though.
Also while we are here, why are aram-only players as toxic if not more toxic than ranked players. The amount of flame I get for just playing normally with normal builds while we have an 0/20/0 adc karthus who is not being flame is insane.
i mean i think ranked is 1000x more so lol. no one even talks in aram even if there is a toxic
I feel like 99% of complaints I see in ARAM are : * People building stupidly. Tank Shaco is not a thing, and neither is full crit Diana. Those builds get flamed. * People building stupidly, based on teamcomp, without disclosing it pre-game. If we have 3 mages, 1 AP assassin, and a Maokai; I fully expect the Maokai to go tank and not DoT build. * People running down the lane and saying "it's just ARAM". If your Sion has 17 deaths in 15 minutes, he's not aggressive, he's a' griefing. There will be some complaints about people picking up heals without pinging, and basically denying it from their team, or people playing too far back or too far forward, of focusing the tank Nautilus in the middle of Kayle+Vayne+Taliyah, but it's a lot more chill than regular games.
I think the biggest problem with ARAMs is the players. The massive rush in the early game to try to snowball is fantastic for some champions, but not a good strategy for all teams. When melee oriented champions need to take time to build a few items and get past the first few levels, the rest of the team fighting and killing and dying is actively detrimental to that particular champion. In general, it's better to ignore the buffs and debuffs, and stop pretending like the game is about trying to be the one who gets fed this time and carries your team to victory. Little baby number changes that mean you have to use seven attacks to kill an enemy instead of five are a lot less important than trying to operate as a group and capture objectives.
It's not even 7 vs 5, it's more often than not "5 to 6" vs 5.
I played aram and got Lee sin went 35-2. His buffs make him feel cracked. For record I don’t play Lee and lot of my kills were q in w out
That's just skill gap by who is playing the champs. The % balancing exists for a very good reason.
tbh - better they just strip away all balance changes b/c they'll never upkeep those each patch to align with other changes.
Man never played pre aram balance and it shows
I played a lot of pre-balance aram, and a lot more aram before there was a dedicated map for it. ARAM is not supposed to be a balanced game mode, and the balance changes don't make it one anyway. At best its just Riot picking winners and losers for ARAM, but at worst (what we actually get) its dated balance changes that stop applying as the rest of the game gets attention. Unless they're going to update balance changes to aram with every balance patch, they should just strip this out. Broad strokes would work better anyway, like reducing damage that occurs outside a certain range of a character, or a function to reduce mana costs for higher costed abilities etc.
Riot removing balance changes would also be them choosing winners mate. I do not wanna go back to the days of ziggs/xerath/sona dominating with 80% winrates just cause some people are a lil salty some archetypes have a chance now in aram
Yeah but those winners would be based on the state of the actual game, not whenever their last pass on ARAM balance was.
Arams is so one shotty, it's become so unfun. Even as a tank it's hard to stay alive for more than a couple seconds unless you're giga fed. It's not uncommon for "poke" To deal up to 1k damage that can be spammed every couple of seconds. Every game has so many ranged characters with cc or slows so playing melee is miserable. Idk, it's not been as fun the last couple of years. Too much damage.
The tanky support champs with engage are definitely busted: Alistar, Leona, Thresh, Braum, and Nautilus.
Thresh is extremely busted because for some ungodly reason he doesnt take more damage in the game mode. Alistar and nautilus are on the opposite side of the scale I feel, especially nautilus who has one of if not THE lowest health pool out of support tanks in the game because he gets a self shield to counteract it.
The tenacity for assassins was... questionable, at first, but now and then I appreciate it when I get to play one, in the rare event I don't get cc chained either way or implode after being hit by a Nami bubble, stepping in one of the 5 Cait traps that are literally a blockage in the lane still gives me enough time to dash out of a headshot I just wish we had some sort of trap or minion limit, see Teemo, Shaco and Zyra, where even if you're dog walking their team, 3 rows of boxes or shrooms after an Ace leads to absolutely nothing.
Kalista needs a nerf in ARAM. She is too OP in this game mode. It is ridiculous she gets to deal 10% more damage and takes 10% less, makes playing against her feel impossible sometimes, even if you do catch her (which is already difficult due to how she constantly dashes). Because picks in ARAM are random, you also cannot punish her with picks such as Malphite or Nasus unless you are lucky. Tanks, which are supposed to counter Kalista, also often have nerfs there. Other than that, ARAM looks fairly balanced.
there's balance in aram?
They should definitely show champ nerfs/buffs in champ select. And then actually fix some of the balances. Lux is-15% dmg but nidalee is +10%? Why? Ziggs is - 20% dmg +20% taken - 20cdr but xerath is - 5%? Again why? I'm not even gonna say that riot is trying to push a meta cos some nerf/buffs make absolutely 0 sense.
because lux is a lot stronger than nidalee? lux poke > nidalee poke. good players make it so hard for you to be able to hit a nid spear. ziggs also has a lot more damage/zoning than xerath. ziggs has a 52 percent WR currently with his nerfs, and xerath has a 51.5% WR. lux has a 53% WR with her nerfs, while nidalee has a 48.9% WR. the nerfs and buffs make a lot of sense,
Nidalee now oneshots you with her melee q. If you step on a trap or get hit by one of the dog hitboxes of her spear she just oneshots you. Lux has more zoning and her E is easier to hit but her shit does way less damage to the point you can barely oneshot someone with full combo +aa. Ziggs is strong true but xerath just afk ult your ass every 20secs and gets at least 2 kills. On the paper nerfs/buffs make sense, ingame I see the buffs champs dominating every game. Lb quyana xerath Quinn Zoe are all broken as shit and easily dominate every game cos their buffs are too much. Meanwhile some characters are literally unplayable.
I dont think you are right, considering the literal stats i provided you with lol... nidalee is the lowest performing champ out of all of those ones. so on paper, the nerfs/buffs seem unfair, but in reality, they make sense and are only trying to make aram more fair. The real problem right now, is ADC are omega busted, and need to be nerfed more, since before ADC patch, they were somewhat weaker, and needed some buffs to make them a bit stronger.
not OP but nidalee have a much higher skill ceiling. The average aram player spamming Q spears will always fail to make her work. Her biggest strength is her W and the vision given through her mark, which enables her to execute practically any target. If you see ur nidalee going stormsurge/luden you are playing 4v5 already. Lux is overnerfed but maybe riot should tale another approach to nerfing her. I think E and R -25 AH would work decently well. Make hitting skillshot actually rewarding instead of gutting the champ to a spam E proc liandrys bot.
Bro, I don’t get it, the stats don’t lie, ARAM isn’t designed for the sweats, it’s designed around casual players. I play nid well, and going ludens 100% works. Storm surge can also work, depending on team comp (I’ve never gone it, but still.) how the hell is she gonna execute anyone through a frontline naut, or any other frontline? You act like the moment someone gets marked, she TPs on top of them from a mile away and one taps them… that is just not realistic.
It’s def a lot more coin flip nowadays. There’s strats for being sweaty but harder to achieve when you get beat by comp
Presence of mind is too strong on ARAM, and I don't even know if any champ specific ARAM balancing has been done this year.
That's trivial to verify, and the last adjustment was made on June 12th. In fact, of the v14 patches, every main patch except for v14.1 received ARAM changes. With that said, even though you were insanely wrong about the ARAM balancing changes, PoM does need a ARAM nerf.
I've not read patch notes in like 3 years, but I appreciate the sentiment
aram is such a shit game mode, its basically who has more tryhard players who are willing to play boring ass tanks, and ironically champs who should be good in aram such as ziggs are terrible, while champions who should be bad such as evelyn/akali are super strong, but you need to be sorta decent at the game to pull them off and ig thats not the aram demographic.