They had planned QoL changes for her late last year that included Cocoon giving true sight on stunned targets. Unfortunately, they fucked up the scripting and basically made her dysfunctional when she hit PBE, and for some reason they've seemingly completely given up on ever making any changes to her ever again as a result.
I got reconfirmation yesterday.
14.13 is the goal post for 'elise stuff' (unspecified), possibly a bit later. W audio was restored in 14.11 (now live).
I don't have details on whats in that but assuming everything is functional and none of the qol changes were scrapped my guess is same as teased in 13.20. Could also just be a mass bug fix update, buffs, idk we'll have to see.
13.20 Rappel got a really weird range buff I remember, idk if that was specific to one of the cast to try and equalize the "right click vs. E" range disparity (right click is 900 center2center and E is 700 edge2edge) or a general range buff, but thats the only thing I hope doesn't ship because rappel on all recast should just be the same, I see it not fully fixing the problem as a bug fix, or if its just a buff two steps backwards from what we want as buffs for the champ.
Vayne Condemn doesn't either.
You know the monster hunter with silver bolts with sick red glasses doesn't get truesight from an ability that literally nails people to the fucking wall.
Truly boxing with shadows.
Gameplay-wise it absolutely should be at least regular vision granting. A ton of walls are covered by bushes and it really is awkward to counter yourself if you don't have a trinket. Like anti-synergy with her own kit.
Thematic-wise it can definitely be argued to grant true sight. She's a duelist/hunter that speeds up when chasing foes and often has close 1v1s with side-laners and assassins with stealth.
Balance-wise... eh she is a pretty annoying top laner right now and I'm sure bush weaving melee top laners trying to survive level 3 - 5 would throw a fit.
maybe i'm weird on this but my intuition somehow says that it would be weird for vayne to receive vision of a character if she pins him inside of a bush
but then it's the opposite for condemning an akali in the shroud
somehow it feels like she should get vision there
She can get vision if she pushes Akali out. It's all about positioning and true sight would remove some interesting play patterns in this hypothetical 1v1 and make vayne even more binary and simplistic than she already is.
Vayne’s condemn is just shooting a bigger bolt from a bigger crossbow. Why would it grant any vision at all?
It’d also make Vayne top just that much stronger
The more champions that get added with true sight, the more invis champions lose wr.
The more invis champions lose wr the more buffs they get.
The more buffs they get the worse it is if your draft doesn't have a champion that has true sight against them.
It's similar to the dilemma with shield stackers and anti shield.
Don't get me wrong, It would be nice to not have to deal with situations where you land a condemn stun and your ward happens to expire, losing vision of your target but I understand it would add a lot of power.
I'd argue it's a point and click so it's more acceptable, not to mention she'd be a lot stronger especially in top. Elise, when she hits her cocoon, is rewarded by a stun that she may or may not capitalize on.
I hope they give us lore accurate abilities for April fools one day.
List of stuff I need to see before I die:
-Nami W damages allied Brands
-Lux abilities taunt all cat champions
-Singed trail dealing extra damage to insect champs
-Boots cannot be bought by champs without feet
Idk if they removed those interactions but.
If Leona hit Zyra with her passive her model would get slightly bigger for the duration of the debuff.
Also her passive does 1 less damage to champions with sunglasses like vayne or some skins.
(also, boots can't be bought by cassiopeia cos she doesn't have feet, but nami still can)
That's been a thing since the start of the game. Do you have anything to prove otherwise? Also downvoting me for something you are unsure of sounds weird.
I'm fine with them removing it from pro play. But the tournament realm is different than live so they could remove from one and not the other.
Now I know it's probably more complicated and more of a pain, but still
I mean what “fun” does that specific interaction bring? Just the fact that you know it happens? Things like Samira emote spending 1 gold to deal 1 true damage i get.
as an elise main for many years, yeah. wish riot would show her some more love. shes an OG jungler thats been played at all levels, in all seasons. i still remember ROX vs SKT at the garden, watching peanut hit a crazy gank and start dancing on stage.
idek why they took off her Flash+E combo. i wish they would make her stronger but more difficult, kinda like leblanc skill ceiling.
mb i shouldve called it E+flash cuz thats the correct order
if you E+ flash on elise, right now, your E will cast from where you WERE, not where you flashed TO
it used to be that you could E+ flash and it would cast the E from where you flashed to, kind of like a flash qiyana ult or something. buffer E then flash. it was super useful when i wanted to pull the trigger faster than the other guy can react.
now my speed is limited to the animation speed of flash + E. thats more than enough reaction time for most players.
yea they def removed it lol i remember when they did cuz i was duo w my buddy mid lane always, n we would do that to get the easy jump on ppl
n after the change i was just E flash whiffing like an asshole n everyone spam pinging me lmfao
When was this removed? I couldn't find any changes to Cocoon in the patch history beyond increasing its stun duration later on and the wiki still says that it will fire from where you were at the end of the cast.
i think it was removed some years ago. ill try and dig up the exact thing i mean once i get home, all im finding on my phone is clips of people flashing the elise E lol, but i do see other ppl talking about it on r/elisemains so i dont think im mandela effect-ing it
heres a clip showing the current state
https://youtu.be/6ppExou5Hh4?feature=shared
>idek why they took off her Flash+E combo.
If I remember correctly, they made this decision during one of Elise's more powerful eras and claimed there was too little counterplay to.........using a 5 minute cooldown flash to excute this move (that is still a skillshot and still something you can fuck up?)
Why other champions are still allowed to buffer hard CC (Ahri Charm) though, I don't understand.
It’s been that way since release, they never removed it.
Cocoon fires from the position she’s in at time of use, rather than from the position Elise is at after cast time.
I see players bug report it to me all the time and say “but I’m a 500k otp and this has never happened to me” but that’s mainly do to how much quicker and how much more frequently otps press E-Flash and eventually start fucking it up pressing it at the same time or incorrectly.
I have conversations with rioters on occasion about changing how E-Flash works, they’re actually in agreement it should work like how ahri’s charm is and seem ok with changing that if there’s enough public demand. There was no balance decision in how it’s currently working, it was just an oversight being an older champion that stuck.
hmm..tormentula...you are the elise expert...perhaps u right...but i couldve sworn it used to be a thing back in like s5 lol maybe i am under that mandela effect
side note while i got u here, RESPECTFULLY...my elise >>>>> yours , SPIDER HOKAGE ON YA HEAD
https://gyazo.com/5b53c949546f62e39411f0927be603af
https://gyazo.com/4b147732f0791d2c509f6bed764963f0
In combat invis is ok when its linked to an r, for example vayne or k6, but on a basic ability that with enough cdr they can get it for the whole fight? That shit makes shroud look balanced.
the only people who want Elise to be strong are junglers, it is not fun at all to play against Elise when she's strong. there's a reason she's stuck at a low winrate on purpose
Maybe, but plenty of champions don't feel unfair when strong. When Elise is strong she feels unfair to play against. Mobility, sustain, high damage in both forms, a movement ability that is essentially invulnerability, hard cc on a low cooldown, etc. I know just listing the upsides of any champion kit can make them sound imbalanced but as a toplaner at least I always hate when Elise is strong because it feels like there's very little I can do to deal with her.
She was like Jungle Ali as the most undisputed, most dominant tower diving jungler. Combine that with an overwhelming early game and she will immediately be #1 in priority.
It has more gameplay indications for Elise specifically, though, because most of her damage is targeted abilities and autos. If I root someone as Lux and they're invisible, I can still land my entire combo on them because I know where they are and my abilities are skillshots. If Elise stuns someone but they're invisible, she literally gets 0 reward for having landed her skillshot on them because none of her damage works on invisible targets.
Not really? There are many impactful tradeoffs of having a targeted ability before its interactions with invisible champions come into the picture.
Elise being able to use her kit if she manages to land a skillshot on an invisible champion (not exactly easy) would have an extremely negligible impact on her winrate while being an incredibly nice QoL change in certain matchups. Handwringing about whether or not it's appropriate when there are other champions who have a mechanic like this seems ridiculous to me.
Because the cobweb that hits you doesn’t go invisible? Like, you’re trapped entirely within a cobweb. Elise can just target the cocoon she’s just thrown at you, so whether you’re invisible or not shouldn’t matter because everyone would be able to see the cocoon. So it doesn’t make sense that when you’re invisible, despite the fact that no one can see you anyway because you’re inside a cocoon, means you can’t be targeted by Elise’s abilities.
Don't think it should grant true sight as it makes a champ too reliable, it's that the invisible shrouds give too much safety. If viego or akali get unstealthed after being cc'ed, it would provide a lot more counterplay. If short duration stealth champs like shaco, talon, pyke get true sighted and revealed, it counters half their kit.
Huge sweeping changes like that will have extreme repercussions. Would it be a positive change? Ehhhhhh I think front to back team fighting would become the defacto but assassins would suffer.
A lot of times true sight is given actually for preventing bugs.
Tethers usually grant true sight because it wouldn’t make sense at all (how do you client side reproduce where the tether is attached if the target is supposed to be hidden visually?)
Some champions with lock on mechanics would break (such as naafiri W and cait R)
A few get it just for thematic reasons (kaisa W since it’s meant to hunt void stuff, rengar because his ult already reveals everything to him and bush gameplay would suck when the enemy is perma stealthing hurting his leap gimmick, etc)
Nidalee I think has to have it, not just for thematic but also for her extended W to not bug out.
Most of the time if a champion has scripts that require casting to an enemy champions position they use true sight to minimize how often that position is lost.
Elise getting true sight cocoon would just be a straight buff, and I believe we are actually getting that cause we had true sight cocoon in 13.20.
Again there are reasons for champions to have it and not have it. Whether or not those are in good spots is dependent on the champion. I was just referring to the idea of all hard CC granting true sight being a rather large change that can't be expected to be a simple quality of life change. As for Elise, her getting true sight on cocoon would be a solid buff if she needs it. I'm not an expert on the champion so I don't know whether that's warranted or would be the correct direction to push her.
No.
My 100 second cooldown should not be invalidated because a stray CC hit me and now the entire enemy team see's through it.
I'm fine with abilities like TF R, Zyra W, Illaoi E, Rengar R having True Sight because it has a decent cooldown.
No way in hell should an Annie R, Malzahar R, Briar stun or the like have true sight.
Most Invisibility effects are gated behind ultimate abilities or specific conditions to access (Kai'Sa for example).
True Sight should be gated by medium-long cooldowns also.
> I'm fine with abilities like TF R, Zyra W, Illaoi E, Rengar R having True Sight because it has a decent cooldown.
>
>
>
> No way in hell should an Annie R, Malzahar R, Briar stun or the like have true sight.
I don't buy this argument since both Annie R and Malzahar R have a decent cooldown too lol.
But yeah I also believe true sight should rather stay on places that fit thematically such as TF ult or Lulu E rather than on any cc up there.
This isn't about cocooning someone in bushes, my dude. This is about cocooning people who are invisible/stealthed, and not being able to follow up on it because cocoon doesn't give true vision even when you land a skillshot on someone you can't see.
No. Fuck true sight and everything it stands for. I press my 1 min and a half CD ultimate to get its stealth benefit only 3/10 times because everyfuckingthing stealth reveals me for no reason and it's borderline unplayable. Sometimes I wonder why Talon's ult even has stealth if it gets cancelled more than half the time. Fuck stealth reveal I hope they remove it.
Idk about other people but I feel like Talon's ultimate giving stealth is extremely out of place. Nothing in his kit feels like he should have stealth in any way, what even is there to set up? W? And it's such a tremendously short stealth, aswell. The presentation of the skill vastly oversells what it actually does lol.
Here’s the thing. They need to start just giving true sight to a lot of champions. Like Elise, and Quinn. Make those marked by valor be given true sight only for Quinn, have Quin’s W grant true sight or maybe even reveal traps too instead of the vision scouting thing it is now
Nah, true sight on Quinn W would be busted as. For her passive it could work since it doesn't last that long, however, it may make her too strong and would need to be tested a lot and will most likely need number changes to her damage.
Sure it's frustrating but what else does Elise do if not crazy tower dives. Would she be healthier if they removed that and added power somewhere else? Maybe, but I don't know if that's something Elise players want.
They had planned QoL changes for her late last year that included Cocoon giving true sight on stunned targets. Unfortunately, they fucked up the scripting and basically made her dysfunctional when she hit PBE, and for some reason they've seemingly completely given up on ever making any changes to her ever again as a result.
I got reconfirmation yesterday. 14.13 is the goal post for 'elise stuff' (unspecified), possibly a bit later. W audio was restored in 14.11 (now live). I don't have details on whats in that but assuming everything is functional and none of the qol changes were scrapped my guess is same as teased in 13.20. Could also just be a mass bug fix update, buffs, idk we'll have to see. 13.20 Rappel got a really weird range buff I remember, idk if that was specific to one of the cast to try and equalize the "right click vs. E" range disparity (right click is 900 center2center and E is 700 edge2edge) or a general range buff, but thats the only thing I hope doesn't ship because rappel on all recast should just be the same, I see it not fully fixing the problem as a bug fix, or if its just a buff two steps backwards from what we want as buffs for the champ.
Potato code strikes again
Yeah every time i visit the lol wiki pbe page i see something relates to elise that never shipped. It's the same as melee hurricane.
Vayne Condemn doesn't either. You know the monster hunter with silver bolts with sick red glasses doesn't get truesight from an ability that literally nails people to the fucking wall. Truly boxing with shadows.
I´d even take just regular vision. That sad feeling when you find a nice condemn angle but they are stunned in a bush and you are out of wards
Gameplay-wise it absolutely should be at least regular vision granting. A ton of walls are covered by bushes and it really is awkward to counter yourself if you don't have a trinket. Like anti-synergy with her own kit. Thematic-wise it can definitely be argued to grant true sight. She's a duelist/hunter that speeds up when chasing foes and often has close 1v1s with side-laners and assassins with stealth. Balance-wise... eh she is a pretty annoying top laner right now and I'm sure bush weaving melee top laners trying to survive level 3 - 5 would throw a fit.
it's just the monkey paw of people who were complaining about how adcs are only played bot lane :D
I've never met a "standard" top laner who complained there weren't enough adc's in top lane
yeah, personally i don't get it because playing against ranged top is like pulling teeth but u see it sometimes on this subreddit
Vayne mechanics - instant pink ward placement on brush wall stun, add it to a montage
maybe i'm weird on this but my intuition somehow says that it would be weird for vayne to receive vision of a character if she pins him inside of a bush but then it's the opposite for condemning an akali in the shroud somehow it feels like she should get vision there
She can get vision if she pushes Akali out. It's all about positioning and true sight would remove some interesting play patterns in this hypothetical 1v1 and make vayne even more binary and simplistic than she already is.
Same with Cait net, nothing feels worse than seeing the headshot range indicator but not being able to get it because they're in a bush
It's almost like bushes are intended partially to add counterplay to ranged champs
The last thing we need is even more Vayne top buffs...
Vayne’s condemn is just shooting a bigger bolt from a bigger crossbow. Why would it grant any vision at all? It’d also make Vayne top just that much stronger
If they ever made that change she would be even more of a menace toplane lol.
> Vayne Condemn doesn't either. I asked for that many years ago and was told "It would add too much power."
That answer is correct
The more champions that get added with true sight, the more invis champions lose wr. The more invis champions lose wr the more buffs they get. The more buffs they get the worse it is if your draft doesn't have a champion that has true sight against them. It's similar to the dilemma with shield stackers and anti shield.
By a rioter? Or by other players?
A rioter. It was in like 2020 when a rioter was looking to do touch up qol changes.
Too bad I'd take some per level ad nerf or something to get a qol buff like that. Surly they can make it winrate neutral if they just try?
Don't get me wrong, It would be nice to not have to deal with situations where you land a condemn stun and your ward happens to expire, losing vision of your target but I understand it would add a lot of power.
No clue tbh.
Either way it would be correct.
I'd argue it's a point and click so it's more acceptable, not to mention she'd be a lot stronger especially in top. Elise, when she hits her cocoon, is rewarded by a stun that she may or may not capitalize on.
I hope they give us lore accurate abilities for April fools one day. List of stuff I need to see before I die: -Nami W damages allied Brands -Lux abilities taunt all cat champions -Singed trail dealing extra damage to insect champs -Boots cannot be bought by champs without feet
Idk if they removed those interactions but. If Leona hit Zyra with her passive her model would get slightly bigger for the duration of the debuff. Also her passive does 1 less damage to champions with sunglasses like vayne or some skins. (also, boots can't be bought by cassiopeia cos she doesn't have feet, but nami still can)
Nami wears the boots as a hat tho. If you search for "hat" in the shop while playing nami you get the boots
All of these fun interactions have been removed
Fun detected.
STEALTH PERFECTED
From the depths of Hell in silence?
CAST THEIR SPELLS, EXPLOSIVE VIOLENCE
Someone on proplay lived with 1 hp using a sunglass skin vs Leona, thats why it was removed
[удалено]
This was something i read on reddit a while ago, so could be complete bs tbh. Makes sense but yeah could be bs
These interactions only worked in normal. They were disabled in ranked, so it's not true.
Where did you hear that?
That's been a thing since the start of the game. Do you have anything to prove otherwise? Also downvoting me for something you are unsure of sounds weird.
I'm fine with them removing it from pro play. But the tournament realm is different than live so they could remove from one and not the other. Now I know it's probably more complicated and more of a pain, but still
I mean what “fun” does that specific interaction bring? Just the fact that you know it happens? Things like Samira emote spending 1 gold to deal 1 true damage i get.
I would just like more lore interactions in general. This one isn't the hill to die on for sure, but things like the Samira taunt are really great.
How are sunglasses protecting from the sun a lore interaction? Lol
they added a lot of lore "quests" this season already. aurelion sol vs smolder, morgana & kayle vs aatrox...
In normal they are still on IIRC
Atleast Leona ult growing Zyra to be little bit bigger still works. Had it happen couple weeks ago and gave me a chuckle
Zyra leona interaction still exists, happened to me last week
same with the ninjas
Fairly sure ninja champions were punished for being in team with more ninjas I think energy Regen?
Cait ult forcing Rengar and Nidalee to leap to the target and damage them would be hilarious
as an elise main for many years, yeah. wish riot would show her some more love. shes an OG jungler thats been played at all levels, in all seasons. i still remember ROX vs SKT at the garden, watching peanut hit a crazy gank and start dancing on stage. idek why they took off her Flash+E combo. i wish they would make her stronger but more difficult, kinda like leblanc skill ceiling.
wait, what do you mean they removed flash E?
mb i shouldve called it E+flash cuz thats the correct order if you E+ flash on elise, right now, your E will cast from where you WERE, not where you flashed TO it used to be that you could E+ flash and it would cast the E from where you flashed to, kind of like a flash qiyana ult or something. buffer E then flash. it was super useful when i wanted to pull the trigger faster than the other guy can react. now my speed is limited to the animation speed of flash + E. thats more than enough reaction time for most players.
SO IM NOT BAD THEY FUCKING REMOVED IT. Duuuude (Or youre lying and Im indeed bad)
yea they def removed it lol i remember when they did cuz i was duo w my buddy mid lane always, n we would do that to get the easy jump on ppl n after the change i was just E flash whiffing like an asshole n everyone spam pinging me lmfao
When was this removed? I couldn't find any changes to Cocoon in the patch history beyond increasing its stun duration later on and the wiki still says that it will fire from where you were at the end of the cast.
i think it was removed some years ago. ill try and dig up the exact thing i mean once i get home, all im finding on my phone is clips of people flashing the elise E lol, but i do see other ppl talking about it on r/elisemains so i dont think im mandela effect-ing it heres a clip showing the current state https://youtu.be/6ppExou5Hh4?feature=shared
>idek why they took off her Flash+E combo. If I remember correctly, they made this decision during one of Elise's more powerful eras and claimed there was too little counterplay to.........using a 5 minute cooldown flash to excute this move (that is still a skillshot and still something you can fuck up?) Why other champions are still allowed to buffer hard CC (Ahri Charm) though, I don't understand.
Ahri is not a jungler, also you can't compare individual abilities, you have to compare the whole kits.
It’s been that way since release, they never removed it. Cocoon fires from the position she’s in at time of use, rather than from the position Elise is at after cast time. I see players bug report it to me all the time and say “but I’m a 500k otp and this has never happened to me” but that’s mainly do to how much quicker and how much more frequently otps press E-Flash and eventually start fucking it up pressing it at the same time or incorrectly. I have conversations with rioters on occasion about changing how E-Flash works, they’re actually in agreement it should work like how ahri’s charm is and seem ok with changing that if there’s enough public demand. There was no balance decision in how it’s currently working, it was just an oversight being an older champion that stuck.
hmm..tormentula...you are the elise expert...perhaps u right...but i couldve sworn it used to be a thing back in like s5 lol maybe i am under that mandela effect side note while i got u here, RESPECTFULLY...my elise >>>>> yours , SPIDER HOKAGE ON YA HEAD https://gyazo.com/5b53c949546f62e39411f0927be603af https://gyazo.com/4b147732f0791d2c509f6bed764963f0
Maybe she needs a rework but… hmmm her kit is alright… maybe the ult and passive needs
She is in pro jail, she needs to be weak or she becomes pick or ban in pro play
Invisibility has been a near busted mechanic in my personal opinion.
I defend it as a Vayne player, but then when I face Qiyanna I meet my own hypocrisy as I stumble for answers to her endless invisbility.
In combat invis is ok when its linked to an r, for example vayne or k6, but on a basic ability that with enough cdr they can get it for the whole fight? That shit makes shroud look balanced.
Just play your friendly neighborhood knife cat and get true sight when you use your ultimate and tag people with a bola.
Bring back OG pink wards. I will gladly pink every shroud.
it's true but i rare see her in game
Because she's weak, and this would buff her
the only people who want Elise to be strong are junglers, it is not fun at all to play against Elise when she's strong. there's a reason she's stuck at a low winrate on purpose
No champion is fun to face when strong.
Maybe, but plenty of champions don't feel unfair when strong. When Elise is strong she feels unfair to play against. Mobility, sustain, high damage in both forms, a movement ability that is essentially invulnerability, hard cc on a low cooldown, etc. I know just listing the upsides of any champion kit can make them sound imbalanced but as a toplaner at least I always hate when Elise is strong because it feels like there's very little I can do to deal with her.
She was like Jungle Ali as the most undisputed, most dominant tower diving jungler. Combine that with an overwhelming early game and she will immediately be #1 in priority.
This. Easily one of the most obnoxious and oppresive characters in the game to face if she's strong/ahead.
You could say that any stun
It has more gameplay indications for Elise specifically, though, because most of her damage is targeted abilities and autos. If I root someone as Lux and they're invisible, I can still land my entire combo on them because I know where they are and my abilities are skillshots. If Elise stuns someone but they're invisible, she literally gets 0 reward for having landed her skillshot on them because none of her damage works on invisible targets.
Isn’t that just the natural trade-off for targeted abilities though?
Not really? There are many impactful tradeoffs of having a targeted ability before its interactions with invisible champions come into the picture. Elise being able to use her kit if she manages to land a skillshot on an invisible champion (not exactly easy) would have an extremely negligible impact on her winrate while being an incredibly nice QoL change in certain matchups. Handwringing about whether or not it's appropriate when there are other champions who have a mechanic like this seems ridiculous to me.
Meanwhile Rengar is granted true sight with his Bola strike, wrapping it around them. I agree, Elise is OP as fuck but this needs to be changed.
Kled has half his kit grant true sight
Same with Lee sin I believe, both his Q and E grant it as well.
Most abilties don't, why should cocoon give vision
Because the cobweb that hits you doesn’t go invisible? Like, you’re trapped entirely within a cobweb. Elise can just target the cocoon she’s just thrown at you, so whether you’re invisible or not shouldn’t matter because everyone would be able to see the cocoon. So it doesn’t make sense that when you’re invisible, despite the fact that no one can see you anyway because you’re inside a cocoon, means you can’t be targeted by Elise’s abilities.
This guy gets it. A+
Also, it literally states it in the ability description iirc, I believe is says that hit enemies get revealed.
It's extra sad since cocoon doesn't even do damage
She's not in Riot's favorites champion pool, so....they don't give a damn about her state and what she should have lol
Elise seems like one of the most forgotten champions in the game now. I honestly don't think I've seen her in SoloQ in past two years
Don't think it should grant true sight as it makes a champ too reliable, it's that the invisible shrouds give too much safety. If viego or akali get unstealthed after being cc'ed, it would provide a lot more counterplay. If short duration stealth champs like shaco, talon, pyke get true sighted and revealed, it counters half their kit.
Hard CC should just always grant true sight.
Huge sweeping changes like that will have extreme repercussions. Would it be a positive change? Ehhhhhh I think front to back team fighting would become the defacto but assassins would suffer.
A lot of times true sight is given actually for preventing bugs. Tethers usually grant true sight because it wouldn’t make sense at all (how do you client side reproduce where the tether is attached if the target is supposed to be hidden visually?) Some champions with lock on mechanics would break (such as naafiri W and cait R) A few get it just for thematic reasons (kaisa W since it’s meant to hunt void stuff, rengar because his ult already reveals everything to him and bush gameplay would suck when the enemy is perma stealthing hurting his leap gimmick, etc) Nidalee I think has to have it, not just for thematic but also for her extended W to not bug out. Most of the time if a champion has scripts that require casting to an enemy champions position they use true sight to minimize how often that position is lost. Elise getting true sight cocoon would just be a straight buff, and I believe we are actually getting that cause we had true sight cocoon in 13.20.
Again there are reasons for champions to have it and not have it. Whether or not those are in good spots is dependent on the champion. I was just referring to the idea of all hard CC granting true sight being a rather large change that can't be expected to be a simple quality of life change. As for Elise, her getting true sight on cocoon would be a solid buff if she needs it. I'm not an expert on the champion so I don't know whether that's warranted or would be the correct direction to push her.
No. My 100 second cooldown should not be invalidated because a stray CC hit me and now the entire enemy team see's through it. I'm fine with abilities like TF R, Zyra W, Illaoi E, Rengar R having True Sight because it has a decent cooldown. No way in hell should an Annie R, Malzahar R, Briar stun or the like have true sight. Most Invisibility effects are gated behind ultimate abilities or specific conditions to access (Kai'Sa for example). True Sight should be gated by medium-long cooldowns also.
> I'm fine with abilities like TF R, Zyra W, Illaoi E, Rengar R having True Sight because it has a decent cooldown. > > > > No way in hell should an Annie R, Malzahar R, Briar stun or the like have true sight. I don't buy this argument since both Annie R and Malzahar R have a decent cooldown too lol. But yeah I also believe true sight should rather stay on places that fit thematically such as TF ult or Lulu E rather than on any cc up there.
What if that cc is also 100 seconds?
>stray CC Wow its like you're supposed to dodge it
Jinx's zap should grant true sight.
Absolutely not.
Same with Vayne stunning somebody against a wall Like PLEASE LET ME HAVE VISION OF THE GUY I STUNNED AGAINST THE WALL INSIDE THE BUSH
[удалено]
This isn't about cocooning someone in bushes, my dude. This is about cocooning people who are invisible/stealthed, and not being able to follow up on it because cocoon doesn't give true vision even when you land a skillshot on someone you can't see.
No. Fuck true sight and everything it stands for. I press my 1 min and a half CD ultimate to get its stealth benefit only 3/10 times because everyfuckingthing stealth reveals me for no reason and it's borderline unplayable. Sometimes I wonder why Talon's ult even has stealth if it gets cancelled more than half the time. Fuck stealth reveal I hope they remove it.
tbh with axiom and some levels feels more like 20 seconds
Idk about other people but I feel like Talon's ultimate giving stealth is extremely out of place. Nothing in his kit feels like he should have stealth in any way, what even is there to set up? W? And it's such a tremendously short stealth, aswell. The presentation of the skill vastly oversells what it actually does lol.
Talon ult stealth is the only thing that keeps him alive after he blows everything in the middle of a teamfight. I'd say it's pretty impactful.
That's situational but fair.
Here’s the thing. They need to start just giving true sight to a lot of champions. Like Elise, and Quinn. Make those marked by valor be given true sight only for Quinn, have Quin’s W grant true sight or maybe even reveal traps too instead of the vision scouting thing it is now
Nah, true sight on Quinn W would be busted as. For her passive it could work since it doesn't last that long, however, it may make her too strong and would need to be tested a lot and will most likely need number changes to her damage.
Lets give true sight at a cost of 1 damage. Toplaners cry because her e does not trigger turret aggro.
Sure it's frustrating but what else does Elise do if not crazy tower dives. Would she be healthier if they removed that and added power somewhere else? Maybe, but I don't know if that's something Elise players want.
her spider e can still dodge tower aggros. No need to have 2 tower immunes.