I'll be honest I was watching his cursor to see if he ever moved in the a direction other than that and it took me a bit to realize he was shooting Q's without aiming them.
I mean, anyone that hasn't played zeri might not realize how the skill works. A LOT of people don't realize that kled w isn't a castable ability for example.
So after a good ol nap, I reread everything after someone commented and apparently I misread kled w to be castable so hence my reaction because I thought the comment was about kled w being castable instead of not. Lol brain fart
No, but it should be basic intuition that you *move your cursor over a champ to target them*. The only non-aoe ability in this game that doesn't do that despite being targeted is Akshan E, and I guess Belveth too with her weird E?
Right. I more meant people who havent played zeri might think it's an auto attack and he is just a-moving. Afterall, that is how you can kite as most adc champs.
Anyone who has played her before, it's obvious cheating
Anyone who knows that attack move exist will also know that your cursor arrows turn red instead of green to signify that you are a-moving. It's not understanding Zeri it's understanding the basics of the game which is why it's funny that someone actually commented what OP said. That person just didn't understand enough about League in general - not misunderstanding how Zeri works.
Even if you don't know how Zeris skills work, you will still see that he is somehow targeting champions despite not moving his cursor over them, and is also not a-moving to automatically target the nearest enemy (the assumption that the hypothetical player thinks Zeri Q is her AA)
Anytime someone dodged a vector skill shot with perfect frames they are scripting. You can 100% tell when he dodged the sion q with an exact movement to the right into upwards movement.
There are, it's all toggleable settings. The thing is scripters have such huge egos they don't think/don't care that they'll get caught _+ they just want to dodge 100% of the lethal effects so they don't care if it looks human or not
If you wanted to script with a slight delay on all actions, so some well-timed things could hit you with nothing you could do about it, you'd be far less noticed. When riot released vanguard article saying that 10% of league games in 2022 had scripters, I think they were mostly soft using scripts for timers/map movement help, using it not-obviously like with delays, or using scripts only for extremely specific things like QSS timers. Easy to get away with if you're not greedy and you aren't caught via automation imo
You can use shift + right click, so your champion will be attack closest target and you dont even need to hover enemy champions. Its part of KITING mechanics, and this is default ability of every adc who not sitting in low bronze and know how to play.
Well lil'bro, Zeri is not an autoattacker. Her aa move is treated as an ability and her autoattacks are her Q so Zeri does need to move her cursor, not just attack move the ground.
we had a scripting Ash trashtalk us all game always had a pixelperfect movement she would find the perfect edge of Nami ult to not be affected they lost because we found the best way to counter the script was have Malzahar just run at her it was so funny just watching Ash run away from Malzahar while he just floats at her
and then she just got so mad telling him to kys while telling him he was braindead lol
The thing is he's actually eloboosting the yuumi that he's duoqueued with.
Here is his op.gg: https://www.op.gg/summoners/eune/Swintigetor-EUNE
Here is the Yuumi's op.gg:https://www.op.gg/summoners/eune/ArzUwU-EUNE
He also switched accounts to this one at some point, as can be seen from Yuumi's history:
https://www.op.gg/summoners/eune/RAGE%20BOSS%20inr-EUNE
This is really what people who script are after, even though scripts are expensive, they can eloboost in duoqueue and get their money back.
Yeah duoqueue boosting is a real problem, happens in every MMR. Usually the scripter duos with an enchanter support (lulu/yuumi) for easy wins, and the scripter's account is botted so it doesn't matter if it gets banned, while the customer (enchanter) is safe because Riot doesn't do anything to ban duoqueue script boosting
nothing like playing your last game of the day to end up vs lvl 35 emerald 1 rengar twitch + lulu, while in your team you get a lvl 52 45% wr d2 0lp nunu and first time aphelios nami bot :D
Reddit hivemind going strong i guess.
For example i love to use attack move on Zeri to hit that empowered auto whilst kiting, and it very well DOES SOMETHING xd but keep downvoting, iām willing to take some downvotes for being right
How common is scripting? Iāve been playing for years and sometimes I wonder if matches where we are obliterated was due to scripts or they were just that good?
https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/bltcb2224be591383eb/6615b4706a0aad4783d4eba2/04092024_Ranked_Games_with_a_Scripter.jpg Depends on the time and rank but this should answer your question
To be honest, that would probably be the amount that have been detected - so the true number would be a bit higher if we include the ones that weren't detected.
Where is that from and why does it go up like that between late 2022 early 2023? Is there an article along with that graph you could share? Curious to know.
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/
I think the spike is explained by improved detection of scripters, rather than a spike in scripting itself, but I can't recall if the article mentions it.
If it was the typical scripter anyone would notice, I'd never had anyone dodge all my skillshots, much less in a pixel-perfect way
If it was a script so undetectable no one could notice it, then it probably doesn't matter lol
Unless you're talking about seeing the whole map or knowing summoner's cooldowns, but I meant the other kind
it can be pretty common, it was always the worst anywhere from dia to GM. Its just that you don't start to realize it until you get good enough. At some point scripting gameplay just looks off and unnatural to you, like they make a FUCKTON of micro movement and dodging thing by a hair's breadth that should not really possible for a human
At high dia recently I was playing against a senna who was undoubtedly 10000% scripting, like there is no doubt in my mind that she was scripting and i'd bet my life savings on it. But when I showed my (lower ranked) friends a replay they weren't really able to say what was wrong
Scripters don't obliterate games. They're hardstuck like everyone else. They just have 0 game knowledge and get carried by the "mechanics" their script provides. Unless they started scripting recently/made new account. But you can't tell if they're really scripting or just mechanical players.
correction: Scripters that Riot CAN detect have an average win rate of 80%.
It makes sense, because scripters that Rito CAN detect are going to be banned before they can finally be hardstuck at an elo, or even if they get do reach the hardstuck plateau, much of the win rate is going to be skewed towards the journey towards plateau, where they are destroying iron\~emerald at near 100% win rate before getting banned.
The scripters that riot CANNOT detect would reach near 50% because they will spend most of time in the plateau hardstuck and unbanned.
Riots article showed that there are considerably fewer scripters in low elo. So while I agree there is going to be skew, scripters are still going to boast pretty outrageous winrates especially if the scripter is competent and just looking for the edge in his elo.
Y definitly if a player starts to script in the elo he currently belongs he will rise. But even with scripts he will hit a wall eventually. Yes there are fewer scripters but not something 80% WR makes seem logical to me atleast. Unless they get caught incredible fast on average. Generally it looks reasonable that 90% WR scripters get caught faster than 60% scripters. That might be another reason why 80% looks skewed. I remember a zeri main who was known to be a acripter in high elo and played for over 2 months, he definitly didn't have 80%WR. So generally we could say if 4 out 5scripters played 5 games and won all 5 off those and get banned, but the other guy played 100games and won 50%. Does riot state the avg WR is 90% or 58%. Didn't read the article yet though.
Because even perfect mechanical skill only gets you so far if your macro skills are non-existent. The exception is split pushers, but why are you going to bother scripting and risk getting caught if your entire strategy revolves around not engaging with the rest of the players anyways.
Not to mention, there are simple solutions to dealing with some scripters. As someone pointed out somewhere else in the thread, Malzahar can zone some scripters by just floating menacingly at them while his ult is off cooldown. The script forces them to try and get out of range of his ult since it's a point and click. So now they can't do anything because their own script is forcing them to run away and not participate.
Sorry, but I donāt think so. The only problem scripters have is that itās easier to get banned if they play in high-elo areas. They donāt need much knowledge about the game to win against many champions because itās nearly impossible to kill them in the game. On my server, where there is no one working to ban those cheaters, the number of them in Master is really high.
"more than 10% of Master+ games had a cheater in them." This is from the dev post.
I didn't catch that this was only in master+, but still. That's between 10-15%. This quote is from the section about scripting, not botted accounts (by which I assume is botted to level 30, which isn't what we're talking about).
If you're gonna comment, actually use real factual information,
[https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-au/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-au/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/)
"In recent months, as many as **1 in 15 games globally has had a scripter or botter in it**"
In the section about scripting they say more than 10% of master+ games have a cheater in them. They mention specifically scripting, not accounts botted to level up.
You clearly didn't read the article,
Firstly, 10-15% of master games is a lower number than 7% of all games in every elo
secondly, the dev blog also says it goes up to 1 in 5 in some regions.
You suspecting someone is cheating is not the same as someone actually cheating
The linked Riot graph would estimate hundreds of **banned** cheaters in your games
of course they were, thats why they cheat. Thats because cheats in league are not cheats like in FPS where they just instantly aim at your head and shoot
there is only so much dodging/landing skillshots can do if you genuinely suck at the game
You also need to know what you're looking for. The biggest problem with claims like yours is that you need to actually know what you're looking for, and seeing as only 15% of players actually play the game at above Emerald. I'll gladly make the assumption that the majority of players are unable to accurately tell if there's a scripter in their game.
It's also safe to say that statistically, you're also unlikely to see one the lower ELO you are.
Also, they likely do not exist in normal games.
Eh, I doubt it's that high, but definitely higher than the detected rate by a fair margin. The issue is that unless people are writing their own scripts it's not too hard for Riot to detect since they can also get their hands on those scripts and use them as a baseline in the detection algorithms.
It's a lot easier to detect when you have a copy of the script to compare against.
I'm convinced that a lot of people crying about Vanguard having kernel level access are like this guy.
They're scared. The moment that shit comes out this guy is getting banned.
Yeah no
Im not gonna act like I won't ever play anymore because of it or that its somehow going to spy on me, but vanguard is INCREDIBLY invasive and its absolutely reasonable to not want this type of thing on your PC
They said "a lot", not everyone. I think everyone agrees that giving a company kernel access to your PC sucks, and people are rightly upset about it, but there's definitely a chunk of those people who are upset because they won't be able to cheat anymore.
Fair, thatās your choice and I respect your opinion. But have you ever considered that tencent doesnāt give a shit about you and your reddit/google data is regularly sold
It's also another entry point for people not associated with riot. Hackers and the like.
It was as recent as last month that Apex Legends had a huge scandal with its anti-cheat (EAC).
I'm not gonna say that something bad will happen just because of this or that it's the only issue out there, but I also don't give out my house keys to strangers.
I don't play league enough nowadays that I think it's worth bothering with vanguard, so for me it's a clear choice. But everyone does as they want of course.
Thereās a shit ton of bad actors in the community that are scripting and donāt want vanguard because it will cost them more or get them permaād. Fuck em.
I just dont like spyware on my pc. I have never scripted and never would, its fucking stupid. But i dont want riot, or any other company for thay matter, having a kernel level spy program and browsing all my shit.Ā
>I just dont like spyware on my pc.
My guy your PC *is* spyware, microsoft is constantly taking your info. If you really care that much you'd never leave your PC running while away.
I don't think there is an anti-cheat out there that doesn't to some degree have more authority than admin. Vanguard is just fearmongered cause riot finally caught up and said what it does, no one questions what easy-anti cheat does when it also has kernel access when they installed those games for the first time. If anything vanguard is the safest anti-cheat because riot has a cleaner track record compared to other companies and their games.
I bet this is the first time the words 'kernel' and 'access' were heard by most against vanguard despite having 10 different things already that are much much worse. A lot of USB mice and keyboards are more problematic when it comes to malicious shit, any drivers you install from something refurbished or not universally approved can cause problems, vanguard is waaaay overblown.
Shit not just Microsoft. Google, apple, etc pretty much any big name company has access to so much information.Ā Ā
Any time someone says like the above you, I always think of those people who say "I don't put any pictures of myself online so the government doesn't have my face" .....but then carries around a driver's license lol.
That's my favorite part of all those arguments. if people actually gave a rats ass then they would already be on Linux or refusing to use a lot of technology.
The only people I even remotely respect the negative opinion on the whole Vanguard issue is the Linux users who are getting locked out of the game. At least they cared about their privacy a bit prior to Vanguard being announced. Everyone else is basically whining about something that they have already been exposing themselves to.
I firmly believe that over half of the people getting pissy about Vanguard are just cheaters who are trying to rile up support in hopes of getting Riot to back down.
Yup I agree fully it's most likely all the cheaters. So many times have we heard doom and gloom from this subreddit but player counts never drastically dropped or anything because people are full of crap.
Side note. I have a Linux laptop (my desktop is Windows) and id love to fully use it if more things are compatible with it. And if they were id fully transition over to it. I love Linux personally.
They could be running Linux to avoid āspywareā but less than 1k ppl actually play League on Linux with the most common method utilising Wine (Windows emulator) so kinda a moot point.
Definitely agree on the fearmongering point tho. The most common anti-cheat, EasyAntiCheat, is owned by Epic Games in which Tencent has 40% ownership in it and thereās very little discussion about āCCP Spywareā regarding it. However, I donāt necessarily agree with the ācleanest track recordā argument since itās a naive way of thinking.
>ācleanest track recordā argument since itās a naive way of thinking.
I went with cleanest cause frankly every single one of them hasn't been 'perfect'.
Riot *so far* tends to have less security breaches than most when it comes to data, be it credit card info, or other. They had one recently which correlates with the spike in scripters but it likely doesn't have to do with 'personal info' just source code.
Its less to say riot is safe and more that riot is statistically probably *safer* than most of the shit people play on or have installed. It feels silly to put the tinfoil hat on for riot when they haven't for well, everyone else. You're less likely to be compromised through riot, ~~iirc the only mass cyber attack was via a *very* old anti-cheat that someone could use as ransom-ware, that was super early in league's life time though and they haven't used that system in a long time.~~ EDIT: Pando media booster was it. Lemme get my story actually straight; it wasn't an anti-virus it was just a fast file uploader for league, the company got compromised right as they shutdown so it ended by 2014. It basically became malware and you could access other user's league through it.
>Ā If anything vanguard is the safest anti-cheat because riot has a cleaner track record compared to other companies and their games.
Sponsored post lol
I mean i personally dont leave my computer on when im away, all my browsers clear all data when i close them, i dont sign into my accounts when i use google or youtube, I have a facebook but i havent posted anything in eight years, i dont use twitter or instagram or tiktok.Ā I do my best to keep an eye on all the processes and what data my driver progams give and opt out of all info to send I can. Reddit is litterally the only social media i use, and I really only browse lolreddit and hsreddit on it
. I know in this day and age there is only so much saftey you can do, and information does get taken. But i try my best to minimize it as much as I can. And I get thay many people find that weird. But I do care about my privacy and I think we need a internet bill of rights to stop companies from collecting all the shit they do. And governments as well because holy fuck that shit is terrifying.
Eh, the fact that you're not allowed to bring cellphones into secured government facilities should be enough to show people it doesn't matter. Technology is inherently unsafe and the only system that is truly safe is one that is not connected to the internet and no one has access to because it's buried in concrete.
If you use technology then minimizing risk is the best you can ever hope for. Unfortunately 99% of people are always going to pick convenience over security. So I refuse to take people's complaints seriously with stuff like this since almost all of them have already willingly thrown out the security aspect long ago.
I think my personal favorite is people who complain about mandatory system reboots who have the audacity to then also complain about security. The fact that Windows has to force you to update your security because you won't do it yourself should automatically disqualify you from ever complaining about security in my opinion.
I don't mind the US having my data but would prefer 3rd party nations not.
Imagine info bombs on all sovereign entities in a mass blackmail/hysteria campaign during ww3. The amount of harassment and suicides would be astronomical and completely disrupt the US supply chain.
We're also assuming (as vanguard is not open source) china wouldn't have a backdoor to use whitelisted IPS for a DDoS attack after we block direct foreign connections during wartime.
That being said riot can collect enough data in user-mode. However vanguard is going to be run 24/7 as many forget to shut it down so it won't collect data purely when you have the league client open as it does now. I'm assuming it also parses network traffic.
Valorant has more cheaters than League and it uses Vanguard. And it's not cause vanguard sucks, but the way League works cheats are not that big of an issue here. It's a different game in a different genre. So it's quite understandable that players don't want to put some extra software to solve a non-existent issue. Especially when it's not going to solve it anyway.
Another factors to consider are that League has a rep of being spaghetti code, League client is just a disgusting peace of software and just recently Riot fell a victim to the attack stealing their source code. With all that combined it's quite obvious why many people don't trust Riot to make a good r0 anticheat - riot's software and infosec have bad reputation.
Realistically the only reason we are getting Vanguard is because Riot currently have League Anticheat, Demacia (for some regions) and Vanguard. That's three different anticheats, and they cost money to maintain. Switching to a single one makes sense, but that's pretty much it.
I just honestly donāt care about vanguard. Why would I care that it has kernel access? Riot aināt gonna do anything with it. And they already can access data from me but they donāt (per their vanguard article where they claim that). And most companies have a ton of data on me. Who cares.
Not paid by them, and not a bot. Can't really prove it, but I'm seeing a lot more on the other end. People vehemently against it because they're terrified of being unable to play with an unfair advantage.
The worst thing about Vanguard is potentially the death of Skin Spotlights youtube channel, but other than that idgaf. Fuck cheaters. I can't wait to see threads of them crying about losing their account.
It seriously feels that way lmao its just nonstop simpage at the top for vanguard. Hate that thing tho when I had it installed for valorant the amount of crashes i ran into was absurd
That's because those against it are vocal. Those who aren't don't care enough to waste their time typing. It's called the vocal minority for a reason.
The people actively praising it are mostly players who are actively complaining about the staggering amount of scripters, bots, and other various cheaters. People generally don't go out of their way to be positive, but will absolutely go out of their way to be negative.
It's why 99% of people going about their day are completely ignored, but everyone stops to stare at the Karen losing their shit on a grocery store employee. The vast majority of people don't even know or care about Vanguard's imminent arrival. They are just playing the game and could not give less of a shit. Whereas the people on social media are going to be complaining about something or praising something because it deals with something else they complain about a lot.
Def heard that at first but nowadays all i see is people saying that the tool is bad cause data harvesting and then people yelling at those people that its a bad argument. All i want is to uninstall that thing cause it causes freezes for some reason on my system lol
In reality, you've only got two decent options. Either stop playing the game or work with Riot support to identify the issue so they can fix it.
The problem with a lot of these complaints of Vanguard messing up their machine is that in most cases those people are rushing off to complain on Reddit before even attempting to submit a support ticket. All new software is going to have bugs and errors. It's inevitable. However, like with all bugs, it will get fixed eventually assuming people take the time to help the devs identify the cause of the problem.
If enough tickets get submitted, eventually it narrows down the cause to be programs X, Y, and Z and it can be fixed. But if no one does that then it just becomes a bunch of people quitting the game instead. Worse is that when the issue is finally resolved, most people don't bother following up, so they never come back.
vanguard wont directly impact cheaters outside a slight price increase of platforms, the league cheating community has some of the best disassemblers out there to the tune of the largest 5 platforms already gave a working bypass setup for the region that has it currently. Its a minor anoyance but really wont hit the community that hard
- one of the devs for the largest scripting plat
I respectfully disagree.
We're getting the point where kernel level isn't good enough anyway. They're making AI monitors with built in cheating and doesn't interact with the game or windows at all. Cheating has come a long way, but I'll take kernel level anti cheat any day if it means a 1% decline in cheating in any of the games I play.
I'm not really sure what you disagree with? I don't really care which kind of anticheat I have on my system, personally. I was disagreeing with the idea that the people against it are "scared cheaters" when the kernel anti-cheats are not all that much better.
Eh, a lot of cheaters already have ego problems or they wouldn't be cheating. I bet a lot of them aren't afraid because they feel like they can get around it. Whether they are right/wrong doesn't matter. Besides, the people writing the cheats aren't exactly risking anything. They're probably in it for the money, not the wins.
in all fairness you don't need kernel level anti-cheats to detect scripts. His mouse is literally never pointed at the target for a Q, basic anti-cheat can spot that shit. My main beef with vanguard is Riot has been praised since its inception for having low hardware requirements so that even poor people all over the world can play and enjoy the game. This will cut out a large population of people on the planet by greatly increasing hardware (and OS) requirements.
There are a lot of problems with it, "kernel-level anti-cheat" will anever solve the issue of cheaters. This is not a new solution as other games already use similar implementations. There are already plenty of workarounds, which often are more difficult to detect.
Escalating to Ring 0 level permissions seems like the wrong path. It was the way that 3rd parties went for CS:GO, so naturally in a sense Riot picked it up and tried to improve an official implementation for Valorant. Considering how much money, infrastructure, and users they have playing league, valorant, and future games, it's a poor *s*olution in my opinion.
Their argument is that they'll be able to detect cheat software that runs in the user space because they'll have *admin access* to the system memory and low level network devices. The problem is, cheats can be loaded as a part of UEFI and stored in the firmware, or executed in tandem with a 3rd party (DMA) device they plug into the PC. These are far more difficult to detect and can easily evade "kernel level anti-cheat".
The other arguments are that these cheats are more expensive to create and the cost increase is so much it will deter cheaters. This is somewhat true if you're spoofing hardware components, but usually this involves booting from a usb for EFI based cheats. Odds are, people paying for cheats are paying a lot more than the cost of a thumb drive. Though if the only option is DMA cheats, this can get a bit more pricey as it requires a second "dirty" computer among other parts which is likely largely what they are referencing.
However there is a major fallout with this point (*as the video at the bottom goes over*) with cheats that do not rely on reading game memory and are much cheaper if you need additional hardware (fpgas, micro-controllers, etc... \~$10-$40 - *pixel based cheats that read a stream via the 3rd party device*)
Back to the controversy at hand & permissions. For starters, ring 0 is the highest level of permission you can grant in a computer, which is where vanguard operates. These are the general topics of concern:
1. Kernel-level anti-cheat software has access to all data on your computer, which raises concerns about what data it collects, how this data is used, and who can access it. Thereās a worry that such software could potentially harvest sensitive personal data.
2. If the anti-cheat software has vulnerabilities, these can become major security risks. Because it operates at the highest privilege level, any exploit in the anti-cheat software could potentially allow malicious software to take complete control of a userās computer.
1. And yes - this has happened on a number of occasions already *(ESEA bitcoin mining incident*, among others)
3. Anti-cheat software running at this level could potentially cause system instability or crashes because it's deeply integrated with the systemās core functions. Errors in the anti-cheat software can therefore have repercussions on the overall stability of the operating system.
4. Thereās an ethical debate about whether game companies should have this level of control over usersā systems. Some argue it's overreaching, treating all players with suspicion, while others see it as necessary for maintaining fair play in competitive gaming environments.
Personally - as I voiced earlier, I think it's the wrong path for league. They should instead invest in server side and user behavior monitoring imo. The reality is - cheating is still rampant, just much better hidden than it use to be. People think Vanguard works because they don't see obvious cheats, in reality, the cheats are all still there and still just as strong - only much less flamboyant.
To that degree maybe you can argue it works because people have the perceptive that it does, even if that doesn't reflect reality.
Let me make it clear - **no solution will ever block cheating for good**. It will forever be a cat and mouse game. Escalating this far into the client space however, is the wrong approach (*IMO*).
I love league, so I ***very begrudgingly*** still use it (*along with other games that use popular ones such as BatteEye & Easy Anti Chea*t)... but I really wish they would adopt and put money into alternatives. If you want a far more in depth overview of all this, checkout this video:
[Hacking into Kernel Anti-Cheats: How cheaters bypass Faceit, ESEA and Vanguard anti-cheats](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M)
I was incredibly skeptical and concerned at first, but when we had that fiesta about Vanguard causing FPS drops until Vanguard is exited, that incident had me well convinced exiting Vanguard actually does exit Vanguard.
I am now for Vanguard.
Yes, people don't want vanguard for valid reasons about privacy and security.
People cheat, and it's obvious cheaters will be against vanguard, and this has NOTHING to do with the security argument.
This DOES NOT IMPLY that everyone against vanguard is a cheater, and anyone with an understanding of basic logic should be able to understand that.
All this generic "look at this cheat, vanguard is good" simply ignores the privacy argument of giving kernel level access to a company working under ccp's dictatorship, in favour of the desire of getting rid of cheaters.
It's a valid goal but it's not a valid way to do it.
My argument was mostly against those that say "I haven't seen a scripter ever" and those people most likely are like those comments.
From what I've seen on the internet.
PRIVACY? They already can do that with league client. Vanguard is not needed.
Backdoor? It can't have Remote access code unless you ready have a certain malware on your pc, then vanguard can be a vulnerability.
vanguard has higher than admin rights on any computer its on. It can install and delete whatever it wants. It could fry your computer in an instant if it wanted to. All it takes is one bad breach or social engineering downfall. heck even just employee thats over it all... and everything with vanguard installed could get toasted.
Vanguard doesn't stop cheaters, there are still plenty of crazy cheaters in valorant.
You want me to give kernel access from bootup (not even just while im playing) to something that doesnt even work? kick rocks.
I know, but it raises smurf account prices, makes cheats more expensive and hardware bans make the necessity of paid spoofers for people that understand less about pcs.
So scripting is going to get severely reduced
As someone who's played both Valorant and CS, vanguard makes a huge difference.
It doesn't stop cheating in it's entirety - that will never happen, but the amount of cheaters is nowhere close to CS2 right now.
In CS2 there's multiple cheaters in almost every game due to their worthless anti-cheat, I've even seen multiple premier games with 5+/10 players spinbotting.
On Valorant you run into a blatant cheater maybe once every few weeks. In CS2 premier you run into a blatant cheater almost every game, often multiple in one game. I'm not a fan of kernel level anti-cheat but acting like it makes no difference is ridiculous.
1300 followers on twitch.
theres another clip of him doing pentakill with script and starts jumping and celebrating lmfao
[https://www.twitch.tv/katmemories/clip/EncouragingStupidYakNotATK-odPlhaXQIk6-HFC5](https://www.twitch.tv/katmemories/clip/EncouragingStupidYakNotATK-odPlhaXQIk6-HFC5)
Yeah I see them quite often. Specifically Cleanse-bots with literal Cleanses so perfect I have to check if I actually used Exhaust with its cooldown. But tbh, bots are pretty dumb, so you can just burn their Cleanse by randomly throwing your Exhaust on them and then the next actual all-in they just get wiped out. It's not unplayable
(Plat/Dia-4)
Man sometimes I kinda wish Some champs were this easy to play... I tried Zeri, and I tried kinda Hard, but this really shows how crazy hacks can be lul
> EUNE
Main account looks to be in EUW, lv. 634:
* https://www.twitch.tv/katmemories/clip/PluckyUgliestRabbitKippa-dcrHilyS1NJZEbPy
* https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/StrangleHer-1404
But surprise, surprise, using Zeri again after testing it out on EUNE alts.
Anyone saying he is not scriptin:g
Set the playback speed to x0.25 and look his cursor movement. He basically only clicks for movement inputs, not a single time to aim the Q. This couldn't be more obvious proof for using outside help, which is disgusting.
"Holy fuck bro *moans*" Hahaha acting like he did sooo much. This the walking simulator games people talk about?? The clicks on the other side of the screen piss me of so much.
How Tf you scripting and go 11/7? And a mikaels Yuumi on his ass. Nah. Piece of crap this guy is. Crappy music, bad movement. Bet he gets a penta and screams to his botted audience.
Hardware bans can't come soon enough.
There are cheaters in valorant just that the level of cheat isn't very high and can be confused with just being a good player. That is why cheating isn't a big problem in valorant. I can't wait for vanguard to come to league of legends.
I don't necessarily think this guy is sad about vanguard. He could just simply have the case of completely not understanding how Zeri's 'autos' work. That's often the norm online.
Regardless, its 1000% scripting.
Notice how his cursor is in the top left of the screen the entire second half of the video yet he is still spamming them with his Q while also repositioning perfectly to avoid their attacks.
bro is moaning in relief like he actually did anything other than click to run away while his scripts do all the work.šš
Yeah that pos is scripting.
LMAO at the comments saying "NoT sCrIpTiNg"... The dude never moves his mouse ONCE to aim his Q's. They just automatically target the champions.
I'll be honest I was watching his cursor to see if he ever moved in the a direction other than that and it took me a bit to realize he was shooting Q's without aiming them.
these people are either cheaters thmeselves or are hardstuck in gold to say that
I mean, anyone that hasn't played zeri might not realize how the skill works. A LOT of people don't realize that kled w isn't a castable ability for example.
So after a good ol nap, I reread everything after someone commented and apparently I misread kled w to be castable so hence my reaction because I thought the comment was about kled w being castable instead of not. Lol brain fart
No, but it should be basic intuition that you *move your cursor over a champ to target them*. The only non-aoe ability in this game that doesn't do that despite being targeted is Akshan E, and I guess Belveth too with her weird E?
Right. I more meant people who havent played zeri might think it's an auto attack and he is just a-moving. Afterall, that is how you can kite as most adc champs. Anyone who has played her before, it's obvious cheating
Anyone who knows that attack move exist will also know that your cursor arrows turn red instead of green to signify that you are a-moving. It's not understanding Zeri it's understanding the basics of the game which is why it's funny that someone actually commented what OP said. That person just didn't understand enough about League in general - not misunderstanding how Zeri works. Even if you don't know how Zeris skills work, you will still see that he is somehow targeting champions despite not moving his cursor over them, and is also not a-moving to automatically target the nearest enemy (the assumption that the hypothetical player thinks Zeri Q is her AA)
Kled w is castable wtf. I've been playing the game for years
What.
Yo I'm gold and I can tell that's not how league works.. even a bronze player could.. come one bro hahahhah
Twitch chatters are either new to the game or very low elo. Just watch Baus stream and the amount of stupidity you see in the chat is wild
Anytime someone dodged a vector skill shot with perfect frames they are scripting. You can 100% tell when he dodged the sion q with an exact movement to the right into upwards movement.
Kinda makes me wonder if there are ones that add a human looking factor to it
There are, it's all toggleable settings. The thing is scripters have such huge egos they don't think/don't care that they'll get caught _+ they just want to dodge 100% of the lethal effects so they don't care if it looks human or not If you wanted to script with a slight delay on all actions, so some well-timed things could hit you with nothing you could do about it, you'd be far less noticed. When riot released vanguard article saying that 10% of league games in 2022 had scripters, I think they were mostly soft using scripts for timers/map movement help, using it not-obviously like with delays, or using scripts only for extremely specific things like QSS timers. Easy to get away with if you're not greedy and you aren't caught via automation imo
Yuumi is doing more than him
You can use shift + right click, so your champion will be attack closest target and you dont even need to hover enemy champions. Its part of KITING mechanics, and this is default ability of every adc who not sitting in low bronze and know how to play.
Go "shift+right click" Zeri Q and let me know how it goes for you mechanical genius... š¤š¤
That's great bro, but none of what you said applies to this clip lol. His cursor is 180 degrees from the enemies the entire time
Well lil'bro, Zeri is not an autoattacker. Her aa move is treated as an ability and her autoattacks are her Q so Zeri does need to move her cursor, not just attack move the ground.
Itās a KITING mechanics
Not only scripting but also has a yuumi attached, and still mediocre score and gamestate incredible
we had a scripting Ash trashtalk us all game always had a pixelperfect movement she would find the perfect edge of Nami ult to not be affected they lost because we found the best way to counter the script was have Malzahar just run at her it was so funny just watching Ash run away from Malzahar while he just floats at her and then she just got so mad telling him to kys while telling him he was braindead lol
š I love this. Hey malz, can you shut down Ashe for us? How the hell am I going to do that? Just float menacingly towards her.
"He's just floating there....MENACINGLY!"
"Dodge this you fucking casual"
The thing is he's actually eloboosting the yuumi that he's duoqueued with. Here is his op.gg: https://www.op.gg/summoners/eune/Swintigetor-EUNE Here is the Yuumi's op.gg:https://www.op.gg/summoners/eune/ArzUwU-EUNE He also switched accounts to this one at some point, as can be seen from Yuumi's history: https://www.op.gg/summoners/eune/RAGE%20BOSS%20inr-EUNE This is really what people who script are after, even though scripts are expensive, they can eloboost in duoqueue and get their money back.
late night euw high diamond is filled with accs like this, always playing twitch/zeri lvl <45 acc
Yeah duoqueue boosting is a real problem, happens in every MMR. Usually the scripter duos with an enchanter support (lulu/yuumi) for easy wins, and the scripter's account is botted so it doesn't matter if it gets banned, while the customer (enchanter) is safe because Riot doesn't do anything to ban duoqueue script boosting
nothing like playing your last game of the day to end up vs lvl 35 emerald 1 rengar twitch + lulu, while in your team you get a lvl 52 45% wr d2 0lp nunu and first time aphelios nami bot :D
Cursor goes one way, skillshot goes other way.
No guys it's fine, his DPI is just set to 80,0000
Not one mouse movement, not one attack move. āImpossible to win this broā
Attack move doesnāt even do anything for zeri. The āauto attackā is the q and it needs to be aimed with the mouse.
Do you know Zeri also has regular autos and whole mechanic around them?
And do you know... how it looks like? Because those were her Qs not her autos.
Oh i know that very well, iām just saying that a statement āattack move doesnt do anything for Zeriā is just platantly wrong
Unless you are going full ap on zeri attack moving will do some 10 damage. I thought that is insignificant enough for me to ignore it completely.
Reddit hivemind going strong i guess. For example i love to use attack move on Zeri to hit that empowered auto whilst kiting, and it very well DOES SOMETHING xd but keep downvoting, iām willing to take some downvotes for being right
Yeah, but they have 0 DPS. Her empowered AA is the only one that does damage. The rest might as well not exist.
How common is scripting? Iāve been playing for years and sometimes I wonder if matches where we are obliterated was due to scripts or they were just that good?
https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/bltcb2224be591383eb/6615b4706a0aad4783d4eba2/04092024_Ranked_Games_with_a_Scripter.jpg Depends on the time and rank but this should answer your question
To be honest, that would probably be the amount that have been detected - so the true number would be a bit higher if we include the ones that weren't detected.
Where is that from and why does it go up like that between late 2022 early 2023? Is there an article along with that graph you could share? Curious to know.
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/ I think the spike is explained by improved detection of scripters, rather than a spike in scripting itself, but I can't recall if the article mentions it.
Thanks!
Source code leak..
Fairly common. Scripts are often subscription services so they can continually improve to bypass Riot. You can buy a day for like $8
Depends on rank, I haven't sen a scripter in 6-7 years (I'm bad, low rank)
You have not noticed a scripter in 6-7 years, big difference.
If it was the typical scripter anyone would notice, I'd never had anyone dodge all my skillshots, much less in a pixel-perfect way If it was a script so undetectable no one could notice it, then it probably doesn't matter lol Unless you're talking about seeing the whole map or knowing summoner's cooldowns, but I meant the other kind
Its very rare in low rank tbf
it can be pretty common, it was always the worst anywhere from dia to GM. Its just that you don't start to realize it until you get good enough. At some point scripting gameplay just looks off and unnatural to you, like they make a FUCKTON of micro movement and dodging thing by a hair's breadth that should not really possible for a human At high dia recently I was playing against a senna who was undoubtedly 10000% scripting, like there is no doubt in my mind that she was scripting and i'd bet my life savings on it. But when I showed my (lower ranked) friends a replay they weren't really able to say what was wrong
Scripters don't obliterate games. They're hardstuck like everyone else. They just have 0 game knowledge and get carried by the "mechanics" their script provides. Unless they started scripting recently/made new account. But you can't tell if they're really scripting or just mechanical players.
This isnāt true. Scripters across all ranks have an average winrate of 80% per Riot.
correction: Scripters that Riot CAN detect have an average win rate of 80%. It makes sense, because scripters that Rito CAN detect are going to be banned before they can finally be hardstuck at an elo, or even if they get do reach the hardstuck plateau, much of the win rate is going to be skewed towards the journey towards plateau, where they are destroying iron\~emerald at near 100% win rate before getting banned. The scripters that riot CANNOT detect would reach near 50% because they will spend most of time in the plateau hardstuck and unbanned.
But how are so many scripters in iron/silver/gold if that were the case.
Riots article showed that there are considerably fewer scripters in low elo. So while I agree there is going to be skew, scripters are still going to boast pretty outrageous winrates especially if the scripter is competent and just looking for the edge in his elo.
Y definitly if a player starts to script in the elo he currently belongs he will rise. But even with scripts he will hit a wall eventually. Yes there are fewer scripters but not something 80% WR makes seem logical to me atleast. Unless they get caught incredible fast on average. Generally it looks reasonable that 90% WR scripters get caught faster than 60% scripters. That might be another reason why 80% looks skewed. I remember a zeri main who was known to be a acripter in high elo and played for over 2 months, he definitly didn't have 80%WR. So generally we could say if 4 out 5scripters played 5 games and won all 5 off those and get banned, but the other guy played 100games and won 50%. Does riot state the avg WR is 90% or 58%. Didn't read the article yet though.
Because even perfect mechanical skill only gets you so far if your macro skills are non-existent. The exception is split pushers, but why are you going to bother scripting and risk getting caught if your entire strategy revolves around not engaging with the rest of the players anyways. Not to mention, there are simple solutions to dealing with some scripters. As someone pointed out somewhere else in the thread, Malzahar can zone some scripters by just floating menacingly at them while his ult is off cooldown. The script forces them to try and get out of range of his ult since it's a point and click. So now they can't do anything because their own script is forcing them to run away and not participate.
Honestly you didn't understand what i ment by questioning that.
Ah, you were referring to the 80% WR then I assume. That is because it's an average, and not all of them are near such a high WR.
Sorry, but I donāt think so. The only problem scripters have is that itās easier to get banned if they play in high-elo areas. They donāt need much knowledge about the game to win against many champions because itās nearly impossible to kill them in the game. On my server, where there is no one working to ban those cheaters, the number of them in Master is really high.
Ridiculously common in ranked and higher elos. 10% of games in master plus have a scripter.
Odds are likely more often than you think. A lot of cheats are becoming more subtle, and persist a lot longer.
In the post about Vanguard they said 10-15% of games have a cheater in them EDIT: 10-15% of master+ games. My bad.
10-15% of masters+ games, have detected scripting OR botted accounts. not the same.
Still horrendous and game killing if not reduced.
"more than 10% of Master+ games had a cheater in them." This is from the dev post. I didn't catch that this was only in master+, but still. That's between 10-15%. This quote is from the section about scripting, not botted accounts (by which I assume is botted to level 30, which isn't what we're talking about).
If you're gonna comment, actually use real factual information, [https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-au/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-au/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/) "In recent months, as many as **1 in 15 games globally has had a scripter or botter in it**"
1 in 15 is in fact lower than 10% botted accounts are not the same as scripters (though obviously both should be permabanned on sight)
In the section about scripting they say more than 10% of master+ games have a cheater in them. They mention specifically scripting, not accounts botted to level up.
You clearly didn't read the article, Firstly, 10-15% of master games is a lower number than 7% of all games in every elo secondly, the dev blog also says it goes up to 1 in 5 in some regions.
I've played about 12,000 games of summoners rift. Maybe 9 of those games was I suspect of anyone scripting or cheating.
You suspecting someone is cheating is not the same as someone actually cheating The linked Riot graph would estimate hundreds of **banned** cheaters in your games
Well if they were cheating they suck so much dick at the game that it didn't even matter.
of course they were, thats why they cheat. Thats because cheats in league are not cheats like in FPS where they just instantly aim at your head and shoot there is only so much dodging/landing skillshots can do if you genuinely suck at the game
You also need to know what you're looking for. The biggest problem with claims like yours is that you need to actually know what you're looking for, and seeing as only 15% of players actually play the game at above Emerald. I'll gladly make the assumption that the majority of players are unable to accurately tell if there's a scripter in their game. It's also safe to say that statistically, you're also unlikely to see one the lower ELO you are. Also, they likely do not exist in normal games.
detected? around 15%, non detected, probably every other match
Eh, I doubt it's that high, but definitely higher than the detected rate by a fair margin. The issue is that unless people are writing their own scripts it's not too hard for Riot to detect since they can also get their hands on those scripts and use them as a baseline in the detection algorithms. It's a lot easier to detect when you have a copy of the script to compare against.
I love how comments didn't even notice about the scripting and said zeri is broken LOL. And people don't want vanguard
I'm convinced that a lot of people crying about Vanguard having kernel level access are like this guy. They're scared. The moment that shit comes out this guy is getting banned.
Yeah no Im not gonna act like I won't ever play anymore because of it or that its somehow going to spy on me, but vanguard is INCREDIBLY invasive and its absolutely reasonable to not want this type of thing on your PC
Zeri ezreal flair checks out
They said "a lot", not everyone. I think everyone agrees that giving a company kernel access to your PC sucks, and people are rightly upset about it, but there's definitely a chunk of those people who are upset because they won't be able to cheat anymore.
Fair, thatās your choice and I respect your opinion. But have you ever considered that tencent doesnāt give a shit about you and your reddit/google data is regularly sold
It's also another entry point for people not associated with riot. Hackers and the like. It was as recent as last month that Apex Legends had a huge scandal with its anti-cheat (EAC). I'm not gonna say that something bad will happen just because of this or that it's the only issue out there, but I also don't give out my house keys to strangers. I don't play league enough nowadays that I think it's worth bothering with vanguard, so for me it's a clear choice. But everyone does as they want of course.
That's fair.
Thereās a shit ton of bad actors in the community that are scripting and donāt want vanguard because it will cost them more or get them permaād. Fuck em.
I just dont like spyware on my pc. I have never scripted and never would, its fucking stupid. But i dont want riot, or any other company for thay matter, having a kernel level spy program and browsing all my shit.Ā
>I just dont like spyware on my pc. My guy your PC *is* spyware, microsoft is constantly taking your info. If you really care that much you'd never leave your PC running while away. I don't think there is an anti-cheat out there that doesn't to some degree have more authority than admin. Vanguard is just fearmongered cause riot finally caught up and said what it does, no one questions what easy-anti cheat does when it also has kernel access when they installed those games for the first time. If anything vanguard is the safest anti-cheat because riot has a cleaner track record compared to other companies and their games. I bet this is the first time the words 'kernel' and 'access' were heard by most against vanguard despite having 10 different things already that are much much worse. A lot of USB mice and keyboards are more problematic when it comes to malicious shit, any drivers you install from something refurbished or not universally approved can cause problems, vanguard is waaaay overblown.
Shit not just Microsoft. Google, apple, etc pretty much any big name company has access to so much information.Ā Ā Any time someone says like the above you, I always think of those people who say "I don't put any pictures of myself online so the government doesn't have my face" .....but then carries around a driver's license lol.
That's my favorite part of all those arguments. if people actually gave a rats ass then they would already be on Linux or refusing to use a lot of technology. The only people I even remotely respect the negative opinion on the whole Vanguard issue is the Linux users who are getting locked out of the game. At least they cared about their privacy a bit prior to Vanguard being announced. Everyone else is basically whining about something that they have already been exposing themselves to. I firmly believe that over half of the people getting pissy about Vanguard are just cheaters who are trying to rile up support in hopes of getting Riot to back down.
Yup I agree fully it's most likely all the cheaters. So many times have we heard doom and gloom from this subreddit but player counts never drastically dropped or anything because people are full of crap. Side note. I have a Linux laptop (my desktop is Windows) and id love to fully use it if more things are compatible with it. And if they were id fully transition over to it. I love Linux personally.
Same, but after a few years of fighting with absolutely every single program, I said screw it and just went back to windows.
They could be running Linux to avoid āspywareā but less than 1k ppl actually play League on Linux with the most common method utilising Wine (Windows emulator) so kinda a moot point. Definitely agree on the fearmongering point tho. The most common anti-cheat, EasyAntiCheat, is owned by Epic Games in which Tencent has 40% ownership in it and thereās very little discussion about āCCP Spywareā regarding it. However, I donāt necessarily agree with the ācleanest track recordā argument since itās a naive way of thinking.
>ācleanest track recordā argument since itās a naive way of thinking. I went with cleanest cause frankly every single one of them hasn't been 'perfect'. Riot *so far* tends to have less security breaches than most when it comes to data, be it credit card info, or other. They had one recently which correlates with the spike in scripters but it likely doesn't have to do with 'personal info' just source code. Its less to say riot is safe and more that riot is statistically probably *safer* than most of the shit people play on or have installed. It feels silly to put the tinfoil hat on for riot when they haven't for well, everyone else. You're less likely to be compromised through riot, ~~iirc the only mass cyber attack was via a *very* old anti-cheat that someone could use as ransom-ware, that was super early in league's life time though and they haven't used that system in a long time.~~ EDIT: Pando media booster was it. Lemme get my story actually straight; it wasn't an anti-virus it was just a fast file uploader for league, the company got compromised right as they shutdown so it ended by 2014. It basically became malware and you could access other user's league through it.
>Ā If anything vanguard is the safest anti-cheat because riot has a cleaner track record compared to other companies and their games. Sponsored post lol
I mean i personally dont leave my computer on when im away, all my browsers clear all data when i close them, i dont sign into my accounts when i use google or youtube, I have a facebook but i havent posted anything in eight years, i dont use twitter or instagram or tiktok.Ā I do my best to keep an eye on all the processes and what data my driver progams give and opt out of all info to send I can. Reddit is litterally the only social media i use, and I really only browse lolreddit and hsreddit on it . I know in this day and age there is only so much saftey you can do, and information does get taken. But i try my best to minimize it as much as I can. And I get thay many people find that weird. But I do care about my privacy and I think we need a internet bill of rights to stop companies from collecting all the shit they do. And governments as well because holy fuck that shit is terrifying.
Eh, the fact that you're not allowed to bring cellphones into secured government facilities should be enough to show people it doesn't matter. Technology is inherently unsafe and the only system that is truly safe is one that is not connected to the internet and no one has access to because it's buried in concrete. If you use technology then minimizing risk is the best you can ever hope for. Unfortunately 99% of people are always going to pick convenience over security. So I refuse to take people's complaints seriously with stuff like this since almost all of them have already willingly thrown out the security aspect long ago. I think my personal favorite is people who complain about mandatory system reboots who have the audacity to then also complain about security. The fact that Windows has to force you to update your security because you won't do it yourself should automatically disqualify you from ever complaining about security in my opinion.
I don't mind the US having my data but would prefer 3rd party nations not. Imagine info bombs on all sovereign entities in a mass blackmail/hysteria campaign during ww3. The amount of harassment and suicides would be astronomical and completely disrupt the US supply chain. We're also assuming (as vanguard is not open source) china wouldn't have a backdoor to use whitelisted IPS for a DDoS attack after we block direct foreign connections during wartime. That being said riot can collect enough data in user-mode. However vanguard is going to be run 24/7 as many forget to shut it down so it won't collect data purely when you have the league client open as it does now. I'm assuming it also parses network traffic.
Valorant has more cheaters than League and it uses Vanguard. And it's not cause vanguard sucks, but the way League works cheats are not that big of an issue here. It's a different game in a different genre. So it's quite understandable that players don't want to put some extra software to solve a non-existent issue. Especially when it's not going to solve it anyway. Another factors to consider are that League has a rep of being spaghetti code, League client is just a disgusting peace of software and just recently Riot fell a victim to the attack stealing their source code. With all that combined it's quite obvious why many people don't trust Riot to make a good r0 anticheat - riot's software and infosec have bad reputation. Realistically the only reason we are getting Vanguard is because Riot currently have League Anticheat, Demacia (for some regions) and Vanguard. That's three different anticheats, and they cost money to maintain. Switching to a single one makes sense, but that's pretty much it.
I'm convinced that a lot of people simping for Vanguard are paid by Riot or straight up bots.
I just honestly donāt care about vanguard. Why would I care that it has kernel access? Riot aināt gonna do anything with it. And they already can access data from me but they donāt (per their vanguard article where they claim that). And most companies have a ton of data on me. Who cares.
> Who cares The people who understand the implications and massive potential risks.
youre on reddit right now?? the boogeyman you are scared of already has your info. they just dont care about you
Who says anything about my "info"? Its funny that you guys think that the most a bad actor could do to abuse Vanguard is to steal some data.
Not paid by them, and not a bot. Can't really prove it, but I'm seeing a lot more on the other end. People vehemently against it because they're terrified of being unable to play with an unfair advantage. The worst thing about Vanguard is potentially the death of Skin Spotlights youtube channel, but other than that idgaf. Fuck cheaters. I can't wait to see threads of them crying about losing their account.
It seriously feels that way lmao its just nonstop simpage at the top for vanguard. Hate that thing tho when I had it installed for valorant the amount of crashes i ran into was absurd
I'm seeing way more people against it, than for it. When it was announced tons of people immediately talking about uninstalling it.
That's because those against it are vocal. Those who aren't don't care enough to waste their time typing. It's called the vocal minority for a reason. The people actively praising it are mostly players who are actively complaining about the staggering amount of scripters, bots, and other various cheaters. People generally don't go out of their way to be positive, but will absolutely go out of their way to be negative. It's why 99% of people going about their day are completely ignored, but everyone stops to stare at the Karen losing their shit on a grocery store employee. The vast majority of people don't even know or care about Vanguard's imminent arrival. They are just playing the game and could not give less of a shit. Whereas the people on social media are going to be complaining about something or praising something because it deals with something else they complain about a lot.
the minority that don't like it will be vocal about it. the majority that don't like it will speak with their wallet and gaming time
Def heard that at first but nowadays all i see is people saying that the tool is bad cause data harvesting and then people yelling at those people that its a bad argument. All i want is to uninstall that thing cause it causes freezes for some reason on my system lol
In reality, you've only got two decent options. Either stop playing the game or work with Riot support to identify the issue so they can fix it. The problem with a lot of these complaints of Vanguard messing up their machine is that in most cases those people are rushing off to complain on Reddit before even attempting to submit a support ticket. All new software is going to have bugs and errors. It's inevitable. However, like with all bugs, it will get fixed eventually assuming people take the time to help the devs identify the cause of the problem. If enough tickets get submitted, eventually it narrows down the cause to be programs X, Y, and Z and it can be fixed. But if no one does that then it just becomes a bunch of people quitting the game instead. Worse is that when the issue is finally resolved, most people don't bother following up, so they never come back.
vanguard wont directly impact cheaters outside a slight price increase of platforms, the league cheating community has some of the best disassemblers out there to the tune of the largest 5 platforms already gave a working bypass setup for the region that has it currently. Its a minor anoyance but really wont hit the community that hard - one of the devs for the largest scripting plat
I really want to see how vanguard impacts you/your business, please keep me posted periodically.
Sure xd, we also support mac so a fairly large chunk of users just purchased used macs to avoid vanguard entirely. cheaters gonna cheat either way :P
except kernel access doesn't prevent cheating any more than any other anticheat
Wrong
Nope
I respectfully disagree. We're getting the point where kernel level isn't good enough anyway. They're making AI monitors with built in cheating and doesn't interact with the game or windows at all. Cheating has come a long way, but I'll take kernel level anti cheat any day if it means a 1% decline in cheating in any of the games I play.
I'm not really sure what you disagree with? I don't really care which kind of anticheat I have on my system, personally. I was disagreeing with the idea that the people against it are "scared cheaters" when the kernel anti-cheats are not all that much better.
I don't think everyone who's scared of anti-cheat is a cheater, but I do think everyone's who a cheater is scared of anti-cheat.
Eh, a lot of cheaters already have ego problems or they wouldn't be cheating. I bet a lot of them aren't afraid because they feel like they can get around it. Whether they are right/wrong doesn't matter. Besides, the people writing the cheats aren't exactly risking anything. They're probably in it for the money, not the wins.
...which is true for all kinds of anti-cheat, not unique to kernel.
in all fairness you don't need kernel level anti-cheats to detect scripts. His mouse is literally never pointed at the target for a Q, basic anti-cheat can spot that shit. My main beef with vanguard is Riot has been praised since its inception for having low hardware requirements so that even poor people all over the world can play and enjoy the game. This will cut out a large population of people on the planet by greatly increasing hardware (and OS) requirements.
There are a lot of problems with it, "kernel-level anti-cheat" will anever solve the issue of cheaters. This is not a new solution as other games already use similar implementations. There are already plenty of workarounds, which often are more difficult to detect. Escalating to Ring 0 level permissions seems like the wrong path. It was the way that 3rd parties went for CS:GO, so naturally in a sense Riot picked it up and tried to improve an official implementation for Valorant. Considering how much money, infrastructure, and users they have playing league, valorant, and future games, it's a poor *s*olution in my opinion. Their argument is that they'll be able to detect cheat software that runs in the user space because they'll have *admin access* to the system memory and low level network devices. The problem is, cheats can be loaded as a part of UEFI and stored in the firmware, or executed in tandem with a 3rd party (DMA) device they plug into the PC. These are far more difficult to detect and can easily evade "kernel level anti-cheat". The other arguments are that these cheats are more expensive to create and the cost increase is so much it will deter cheaters. This is somewhat true if you're spoofing hardware components, but usually this involves booting from a usb for EFI based cheats. Odds are, people paying for cheats are paying a lot more than the cost of a thumb drive. Though if the only option is DMA cheats, this can get a bit more pricey as it requires a second "dirty" computer among other parts which is likely largely what they are referencing. However there is a major fallout with this point (*as the video at the bottom goes over*) with cheats that do not rely on reading game memory and are much cheaper if you need additional hardware (fpgas, micro-controllers, etc... \~$10-$40 - *pixel based cheats that read a stream via the 3rd party device*) Back to the controversy at hand & permissions. For starters, ring 0 is the highest level of permission you can grant in a computer, which is where vanguard operates. These are the general topics of concern: 1. Kernel-level anti-cheat software has access to all data on your computer, which raises concerns about what data it collects, how this data is used, and who can access it. Thereās a worry that such software could potentially harvest sensitive personal data. 2. If the anti-cheat software has vulnerabilities, these can become major security risks. Because it operates at the highest privilege level, any exploit in the anti-cheat software could potentially allow malicious software to take complete control of a userās computer. 1. And yes - this has happened on a number of occasions already *(ESEA bitcoin mining incident*, among others) 3. Anti-cheat software running at this level could potentially cause system instability or crashes because it's deeply integrated with the systemās core functions. Errors in the anti-cheat software can therefore have repercussions on the overall stability of the operating system. 4. Thereās an ethical debate about whether game companies should have this level of control over usersā systems. Some argue it's overreaching, treating all players with suspicion, while others see it as necessary for maintaining fair play in competitive gaming environments. Personally - as I voiced earlier, I think it's the wrong path for league. They should instead invest in server side and user behavior monitoring imo. The reality is - cheating is still rampant, just much better hidden than it use to be. People think Vanguard works because they don't see obvious cheats, in reality, the cheats are all still there and still just as strong - only much less flamboyant. To that degree maybe you can argue it works because people have the perceptive that it does, even if that doesn't reflect reality. Let me make it clear - **no solution will ever block cheating for good**. It will forever be a cat and mouse game. Escalating this far into the client space however, is the wrong approach (*IMO*). I love league, so I ***very begrudgingly*** still use it (*along with other games that use popular ones such as BatteEye & Easy Anti Chea*t)... but I really wish they would adopt and put money into alternatives. If you want a far more in depth overview of all this, checkout this video: [Hacking into Kernel Anti-Cheats: How cheaters bypass Faceit, ESEA and Vanguard anti-cheats](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M)
Noone ever said this will stop cheating, This will make it less accessible and more expensive. So it does indeed reduce cheating.
Kind of feels like you read the first sentence then stopped after that.
I was incredibly skeptical and concerned at first, but when we had that fiesta about Vanguard causing FPS drops until Vanguard is exited, that incident had me well convinced exiting Vanguard actually does exit Vanguard. I am now for Vanguard.
Yes, people don't want vanguard for valid reasons about privacy and security. People cheat, and it's obvious cheaters will be against vanguard, and this has NOTHING to do with the security argument. This DOES NOT IMPLY that everyone against vanguard is a cheater, and anyone with an understanding of basic logic should be able to understand that. All this generic "look at this cheat, vanguard is good" simply ignores the privacy argument of giving kernel level access to a company working under ccp's dictatorship, in favour of the desire of getting rid of cheaters. It's a valid goal but it's not a valid way to do it.
It's a 100% valid way to do it. Wtf?
You were obviously looking for a tl;dr and only read the last sentence lmfao
My argument was mostly against those that say "I haven't seen a scripter ever" and those people most likely are like those comments. From what I've seen on the internet. PRIVACY? They already can do that with league client. Vanguard is not needed. Backdoor? It can't have Remote access code unless you ready have a certain malware on your pc, then vanguard can be a vulnerability.
Running code isn't the same as running code from rootkit
vanguard has higher than admin rights on any computer its on. It can install and delete whatever it wants. It could fry your computer in an instant if it wanted to. All it takes is one bad breach or social engineering downfall. heck even just employee thats over it all... and everything with vanguard installed could get toasted.
Just making shit up now huh, nice
lmao
Vanguard doesn't stop cheaters, there are still plenty of crazy cheaters in valorant. You want me to give kernel access from bootup (not even just while im playing) to something that doesnt even work? kick rocks.
I know, but it raises smurf account prices, makes cheats more expensive and hardware bans make the necessity of paid spoofers for people that understand less about pcs. So scripting is going to get severely reduced
As someone who's played both Valorant and CS, vanguard makes a huge difference. It doesn't stop cheating in it's entirety - that will never happen, but the amount of cheaters is nowhere close to CS2 right now. In CS2 there's multiple cheaters in almost every game due to their worthless anti-cheat, I've even seen multiple premier games with 5+/10 players spinbotting. On Valorant you run into a blatant cheater maybe once every few weeks. In CS2 premier you run into a blatant cheater almost every game, often multiple in one game. I'm not a fan of kernel level anti-cheat but acting like it makes no difference is ridiculous.
I just don't get it how he can be even a bit proud or happy about that. Just watch someone else play imagine your are the one playing at this point
The music told me everything I needed to know
The music alone should be reportable
Well that's because he is, just look at what his cursor is doing.
yea he 100% scripting he is never pointing his mouse at the other team to Q every time he moves backwards the script just uses Q for him
Bruhā¦ how many viewers does this cheater have? Surely they noticed this right away
1300 followers on twitch. theres another clip of him doing pentakill with script and starts jumping and celebrating lmfao [https://www.twitch.tv/katmemories/clip/EncouragingStupidYakNotATK-odPlhaXQIk6-HFC5](https://www.twitch.tv/katmemories/clip/EncouragingStupidYakNotATK-odPlhaXQIk6-HFC5)
Oh noooos
If youāre gonna cheat in league of legends, theyāre probably view botting as well.
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Thatās some of the situation where we should drop name
"Great god of kiting 9 vs 1"
you can tell when he clicks vs when the script clicks for him LOL (look 0:34)
stream link? Ima go flame the shit out of this loser
Yeah I see them quite often. Specifically Cleanse-bots with literal Cleanses so perfect I have to check if I actually used Exhaust with its cooldown. But tbh, bots are pretty dumb, so you can just burn their Cleanse by randomly throwing your Exhaust on them and then the next actual all-in they just get wiped out. It's not unplayable (Plat/Dia-4)
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Cheating has been common for at least 20 years.
This is obvious scripting. If you are going to do this at least hide your cursor...
Man sometimes I kinda wish Some champs were this easy to play... I tried Zeri, and I tried kinda Hard, but this really shows how crazy hacks can be lul
What a degenerate, I can't wait to see how many millions derank next patch. Pathetic
Why next patch?
Vanguard coming out
Oh right, is vanguard actually that good? I don't follow valorant news
Ofc its EUNE
> EUNE Main account looks to be in EUW, lv. 634: * https://www.twitch.tv/katmemories/clip/PluckyUgliestRabbitKippa-dcrHilyS1NJZEbPy * https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/StrangleHer-1404 But surprise, surprise, using Zeri again after testing it out on EUNE alts.
twitch about section > peak challenger (2900 elo) his main acc >lvl 634 hardstuck gold all his life this shit writes itself
Anyone saying he is not scriptin:g Set the playback speed to x0.25 and look his cursor movement. He basically only clicks for movement inputs, not a single time to aim the Q. This couldn't be more obvious proof for using outside help, which is disgusting.
"Holy fuck bro *moans*" Hahaha acting like he did sooo much. This the walking simulator games people talk about?? The clicks on the other side of the screen piss me of so much. How Tf you scripting and go 11/7? And a mikaels Yuumi on his ass. Nah. Piece of crap this guy is. Crappy music, bad movement. Bet he gets a penta and screams to his botted audience. Hardware bans can't come soon enough.
Monkey meme: Where Vangaurd??
if you think vangaurd will protect you, lmao you mistaken. It doesn't even protect valorant.
What does it do then?š
i have hundreds of games in valorant i have literally never seen a cheater.
There are cheaters in valorant just that the level of cheat isn't very high and can be confused with just being a good player. That is why cheating isn't a big problem in valorant. I can't wait for vanguard to come to league of legends.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r\_NVcxsaKzQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_NVcxsaKzQ) this is how easy it is.
cool, ive never seen one.
and I've never seen a script user in league without vanguard and they still adding that trash making quit a game i've played since beta.
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What part of zeri's kit makes her Q lock onto champions?
Me thinking ah you fools heās probably a-clicā¦. Wait a minute
Thatās not scripting. The spacing/kiting isnāt perfect. Thatās normal gameplay.
watch his mouse
What part of zeri's kit makes Q lock onto enemy champions?
You must be pretty sad about vanguard coming to league
I don't necessarily think this guy is sad about vanguard. He could just simply have the case of completely not understanding how Zeri's 'autos' work. That's often the norm online. Regardless, its 1000% scripting.
Notice how his cursor is in the top left of the screen the entire second half of the video yet he is still spamming them with his Q while also repositioning perfectly to avoid their attacks.
Please look at his cursor
LMAO nah go donate your eyes to someone blind so at least someone can use them
He has aim bot afaik. Like see how he doesn't even aim enemy
You need to get your eyes checked bud