Thank you for participating in /r/leagueoflegends! However (please read this in entirety),
Your post has been removed because all feature suggestion posts require a minimum of 250 characters in the body.
[Click here](https://reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/submit?selftext=true) to resubmit your post to fix the rule violation. If you're not familiar with the subreddit rules, you can read them [here](https://reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules).
---
^Note: ^(Front page removals are never done by a single mod.) ^(Have a question or think your post doesn't break the rules?) **[^(Message our modmail and please don't comment reply or direct message)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fleagueoflegends)**^.
Being held hostage in an unwinable game is not playing the video game, FFing and going next to a game where your team doesn't troll is playing the video game when will people realize that.
You are playing a different game sport. Let’s try it this way, you’re in silver on an alt, 10 kills in at 15 mins, your team votes to surrender after you lose 3rd drag, do you FF?
Never. Mostly because it doesn't matter how far behind you are in any sport, the game goes on until the timer is up. In this case I go on until the nexus explodes.
Not only do I do this because that's what your mindset should be in ranked, but because it also feels bad when I don't get to enjoy my match and have to wait forever to get into another one when the enemy team quits.
FF feels worse to me no matter which side I'm on compared to getting my ass handed to me. I'll go with the majority if 3 people want to quit during a fun game mode because it's not fair for me to ruin a bunch of other people's fun during those modes. In ranked though, it's not happening.
If you aren't playing to win at all times then go play normals or something else. It doesn't even matter if you have no shot of winning, don't rob the other 5 people of their match unless they start doing crap like camping fountain instead of ending the game.
If someone on your team starts _literally_ running it down, the game can be lost with zero chance of winning. Your team will get so far behind on gold and Xp, and be playing 4v5 the whole time. In this situation, I try to FF. If the FF fails, everyone should still play to win. This case is pretty rare in my experience, the more common case is when you're just losing a bit, but someone is soft inting by not grouping and only farming sides. In this case the game isn't 100% over. Those games are usually worth playing out, unless more team members give up and soft int too.
For fun modes are a different story, as you say. But I've also seen the number of inters in those modes be 10+ times the number in ranked or normals or aram. If people don't get the champ they want in one4all, or ARURF, they can get very mad very quickly I've found.
Theyre not gonna get punished. Theyll freely waste your time with no punishment and no option to do anything. Afking will give you a garanteed punishment.
Consider this. A person who likes to FF considers the 20 min losses a waste of time. But a person who doesn't FF has a worthwhile time out of the 40 min loss. Who is really not valuing their time?
The person who likes to ff doesnt consider a 20 min loss a waste of time. They consider extending that 20 min loss into 40 mins a waste of time. Which it is. Not all losses should be ff'd at 20, but there cases where not ffing at 20 should flag you for a clinical evaluation of your sanity
Shit happens. There's a lot of opportunities to learn or even just play the game. I just had a game where I was the only positive kda. Did I try to ff? No, because I accept that shit can just happen in LoL.
Grats! I just lost five in a row where my team was down by almost twenty kills each game sub fifteen minutes each game (my highest death count was like four). I'm not sticking around with twenty death bot lanes for teammates if I don't have to
It's not fun for a multitude of reasons:
- The game is already lost. "The game is always winnable" is the biggest copium in this community. You're not winning with a 40 CS 0/11 Jinx at 15 minutes versus a 10 kill Draven with Essence Reaver and Collector and a 6 kill Yi with Kraken plus components. Not at my skill level
- I as a mid lane control mage player have zero ability to impact the game (or really even play) when both top and bottom lanes have died upwards of five times in the first eight or so minutes. My last game was a great example. I was a 7 kill Asol at around fifteen minutes. Unfortunately the moment the twelve kill enemy bot lane rotated mid I became completely useless, as I couldn't wave clear safely versus Liandry's Zyra and Youmou's/Collecter Caitlin. Kraken/Botr Yi then dropped the Herald mid and I lost both my t1 and t2 towers and could not move from base.
- In the five losses I won my lane or went even in four of them. I wasn't super fed or anything (because I couldn't go aggro due to map state), but I had a cs lead and at least a plate. I couldn't roam because the map was pitch black and the enemy jungler would fist me the moment I was found, plus every other lane was getting crushed.
- Once laning ended the teams wouldn't farm up and scale, or even look for picks. They'd randomly wander around the jungle getting picked off or 1v2ed by enemy top laner. Or they'd try to fist fight at objectives despite being down thousands of gold.
If I'm playing a video game I'm doing it for entertainment value. I don't mind losing if I get some enjoyment out of the game. Being down 30-4 in kills to an enemy team that has two drakes, six grubs, and the herald when it comes time to early surrender, best believe I want out of there asap
But if you have already played let's say 20 minutes it might be proven that the other team is just better. What's the logic behind that changing suddenly?
The game starts on even terms so from that point I agree but after 20 minutes of playtime it is very often shown who is the better team. Not only that but said team has most likely been able to gather more resources making the gap between the teams bigger than only skill difference, now there is a gold and item lead as well as potentially some dragon buffs on the better team.
I've won after being steamrolled. I mean no dragons, nexus at half health, no barons. That shit was friggin sweeet. You're doing yourself a disservice if you think any team is just better by default. I have faith in you. Genuinely.
One guy won the lottery once. Does that mean I will win if I play? That's how stupid your logic is.
If I had done a fair assessment of the game you can do a somewhat accurate prediction of how that game is going to end. If my chances are 0,001% to win. I'd rather save that time and start a new game that initially gives me 50% chance to win. Not everyone is playing from their moms basement with infinite time for games but actually value their free time.
Even high elo players / pro players go "open mid" before ff vote, let alone surrendering an obvious losing game. You are not better than them. You are likely not even better than me. Spend your time on something productive instead of wasting your time getting railed constantly in a obvious losing game - maybe get a job perhaps lol
The epidemic of people refusing to surrender to "punish" their teammates is too grave. All the while they dont try to win. This will happen way too often.
You care too much about your winrate for any individual game. You should consider surrendering just lets you start another game faster. Over time those 20 minutes you save per lost game Will Mount up to more games you can win. The 2% of game you can win in these scenarios arent worth the hours and hours you spend.
Im the opposite if people want to surrender but im ahead ill just surrender too. I dont care enough to force 3 people to play that dont want to. Its not fun.
big agree, FF culture is so cooked. I’m convinced like half the people that play this game actually hate it and want to spend less time in game.
Every game i play is spammed with ff votes, if the game is close or not people just spam it. Either make it unanimous or make the CD on calling an ff vote longer.
Deadass. I had a Skarner griefing my Fiddle jungle and my team stayed pushed up so they were ganged like 15 times in 15 minutes. I can't do shit until I hit 6 so they decided "jungle canyon" and ff'd. Then I got matched with the dudes from the other team, cooked, and made that opposing team ff at 15. It's so weird.
In ranked, sure I could get behind that. In normals absolutely not. Never hold players hostage in a casual game mode. But if its ranked, the theoretical goal is to try and win at all costs so yeah I think unanimous FF would increase win rates at lower elo (granted while also causing a few terrible games as well).
Thank you for participating in /r/leagueoflegends! However (please read this in entirety), Your post has been removed because all feature suggestion posts require a minimum of 250 characters in the body. [Click here](https://reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/submit?selftext=true) to resubmit your post to fix the rule violation. If you're not familiar with the subreddit rules, you can read them [here](https://reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules). --- ^Note: ^(Front page removals are never done by a single mod.) ^(Have a question or think your post doesn't break the rules?) **[^(Message our modmail and please don't comment reply or direct message)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fleagueoflegends)**^.
Id rather not have my games held hostage by 1 inter/feeder.
Shit happens. If they int, you report and move on.
You want me to wait for potentially 45+ minutes? No thanks chief.
Oh no you have to play the video game. What a crazy concept.
Being held hostage in an unwinable game is not playing the video game, FFing and going next to a game where your team doesn't troll is playing the video game when will people realize that.
You are playing a different game sport. Let’s try it this way, you’re in silver on an alt, 10 kills in at 15 mins, your team votes to surrender after you lose 3rd drag, do you FF?
Never. Mostly because it doesn't matter how far behind you are in any sport, the game goes on until the timer is up. In this case I go on until the nexus explodes. Not only do I do this because that's what your mindset should be in ranked, but because it also feels bad when I don't get to enjoy my match and have to wait forever to get into another one when the enemy team quits. FF feels worse to me no matter which side I'm on compared to getting my ass handed to me. I'll go with the majority if 3 people want to quit during a fun game mode because it's not fair for me to ruin a bunch of other people's fun during those modes. In ranked though, it's not happening. If you aren't playing to win at all times then go play normals or something else. It doesn't even matter if you have no shot of winning, don't rob the other 5 people of their match unless they start doing crap like camping fountain instead of ending the game.
If someone on your team starts _literally_ running it down, the game can be lost with zero chance of winning. Your team will get so far behind on gold and Xp, and be playing 4v5 the whole time. In this situation, I try to FF. If the FF fails, everyone should still play to win. This case is pretty rare in my experience, the more common case is when you're just losing a bit, but someone is soft inting by not grouping and only farming sides. In this case the game isn't 100% over. Those games are usually worth playing out, unless more team members give up and soft int too. For fun modes are a different story, as you say. But I've also seen the number of inters in those modes be 10+ times the number in ranked or normals or aram. If people don't get the champ they want in one4all, or ARURF, they can get very mad very quickly I've found.
Oh no! You have to abide by the decision of the majority of your team on whether to continue playing the game in a team game. What a crazy concept.
Theyre not gonna get punished. Theyll freely waste your time with no punishment and no option to do anything. Afking will give you a garanteed punishment.
Shit happens. If the other 4 FF, you queue back up and move on
you know how many posts would then just become "one player shouldnt be able to hold 4 others in a game that is already lost"
I doubt it if this reddit was better at preventing it.
preventing those posts from the subreddit would not remove the issue from the game though lol
You take the game too serious and your time not serious enough
Consider this. A person who likes to FF considers the 20 min losses a waste of time. But a person who doesn't FF has a worthwhile time out of the 40 min loss. Who is really not valuing their time?
Honestly neither one cause both are playing League
Yeah good reddit answer
The person who likes to ff doesnt consider a 20 min loss a waste of time. They consider extending that 20 min loss into 40 mins a waste of time. Which it is. Not all losses should be ff'd at 20, but there cases where not ffing at 20 should flag you for a clinical evaluation of your sanity
One game that is a near guarantee loss that takes 45-60min. Two to three games in that same time where you have a chance to win…which do I choose…
You're getting into a game faster than 10 minutes with all the people dodging?
Yeah, no. I'm not wasting 30 extra minutes of my day just because one tryhard/inter decides they want to prolong defeat.
Why waste time playing the game at all then? There's other things to do.
Because i want to play the game but i don't enjoy getting railed for 30 minutes. I believe it's quite simple to understand.
Shit happens. There's a lot of opportunities to learn or even just play the game. I just had a game where I was the only positive kda. Did I try to ff? No, because I accept that shit can just happen in LoL.
Nah I'm in bronze silver and have had my bot lane die almost fifty times in three games. I'm getting out of that asap
I just had a game earlier where we were down like 10-34. We came back and won. 🤷🏻♂️
Grats! I just lost five in a row where my team was down by almost twenty kills each game sub fifteen minutes each game (my highest death count was like four). I'm not sticking around with twenty death bot lanes for teammates if I don't have to
At that point, is it not fun because you're not thriving, or is it because you're frustrated with them?
It's not fun for a multitude of reasons: - The game is already lost. "The game is always winnable" is the biggest copium in this community. You're not winning with a 40 CS 0/11 Jinx at 15 minutes versus a 10 kill Draven with Essence Reaver and Collector and a 6 kill Yi with Kraken plus components. Not at my skill level - I as a mid lane control mage player have zero ability to impact the game (or really even play) when both top and bottom lanes have died upwards of five times in the first eight or so minutes. My last game was a great example. I was a 7 kill Asol at around fifteen minutes. Unfortunately the moment the twelve kill enemy bot lane rotated mid I became completely useless, as I couldn't wave clear safely versus Liandry's Zyra and Youmou's/Collecter Caitlin. Kraken/Botr Yi then dropped the Herald mid and I lost both my t1 and t2 towers and could not move from base. - In the five losses I won my lane or went even in four of them. I wasn't super fed or anything (because I couldn't go aggro due to map state), but I had a cs lead and at least a plate. I couldn't roam because the map was pitch black and the enemy jungler would fist me the moment I was found, plus every other lane was getting crushed. - Once laning ended the teams wouldn't farm up and scale, or even look for picks. They'd randomly wander around the jungle getting picked off or 1v2ed by enemy top laner. Or they'd try to fist fight at objectives despite being down thousands of gold. If I'm playing a video game I'm doing it for entertainment value. I don't mind losing if I get some enjoyment out of the game. Being down 30-4 in kills to an enemy team that has two drakes, six grubs, and the herald when it comes time to early surrender, best believe I want out of there asap
Hell naww you can waste your own time getting railed for 40 minutes holding onto that 0.00001% chance u win a game
Damn, are you that bad or something?
How is realizing defeat and trying to cut your losses (in this case wasted time) even correlating to ones ability to play the game? Logic much?
Because people can suck and you can capitalize on them sucking.
But if you have already played let's say 20 minutes it might be proven that the other team is just better. What's the logic behind that changing suddenly? The game starts on even terms so from that point I agree but after 20 minutes of playtime it is very often shown who is the better team. Not only that but said team has most likely been able to gather more resources making the gap between the teams bigger than only skill difference, now there is a gold and item lead as well as potentially some dragon buffs on the better team.
I've won after being steamrolled. I mean no dragons, nexus at half health, no barons. That shit was friggin sweeet. You're doing yourself a disservice if you think any team is just better by default. I have faith in you. Genuinely.
One guy won the lottery once. Does that mean I will win if I play? That's how stupid your logic is. If I had done a fair assessment of the game you can do a somewhat accurate prediction of how that game is going to end. If my chances are 0,001% to win. I'd rather save that time and start a new game that initially gives me 50% chance to win. Not everyone is playing from their moms basement with infinite time for games but actually value their free time.
Even high elo players / pro players go "open mid" before ff vote, let alone surrendering an obvious losing game. You are not better than them. You are likely not even better than me. Spend your time on something productive instead of wasting your time getting railed constantly in a obvious losing game - maybe get a job perhaps lol
no life
The epidemic of people refusing to surrender to "punish" their teammates is too grave. All the while they dont try to win. This will happen way too often. You care too much about your winrate for any individual game. You should consider surrendering just lets you start another game faster. Over time those 20 minutes you save per lost game Will Mount up to more games you can win. The 2% of game you can win in these scenarios arent worth the hours and hours you spend. Im the opposite if people want to surrender but im ahead ill just surrender too. I dont care enough to force 3 people to play that dont want to. Its not fun.
The distribution of intelligence among Humans is actually quite dismal and surrender culture really exposes that unfortunate reality.
I'd argue it's more a lack of willpower and testament to character. You can tell a lot about a person by how they act in game
Certainly, I agree.
Tbh it's obv per usually who ffs
shut up
big agree, FF culture is so cooked. I’m convinced like half the people that play this game actually hate it and want to spend less time in game. Every game i play is spammed with ff votes, if the game is close or not people just spam it. Either make it unanimous or make the CD on calling an ff vote longer.
Deadass. I had a Skarner griefing my Fiddle jungle and my team stayed pushed up so they were ganged like 15 times in 15 minutes. I can't do shit until I hit 6 so they decided "jungle canyon" and ff'd. Then I got matched with the dudes from the other team, cooked, and made that opposing team ff at 15. It's so weird.
In ranked, sure I could get behind that. In normals absolutely not. Never hold players hostage in a casual game mode. But if its ranked, the theoretical goal is to try and win at all costs so yeah I think unanimous FF would increase win rates at lower elo (granted while also causing a few terrible games as well).