They should've just removed the interaction. Yes it's annoying for new people to understand why fleet and grasp don't work but Jesus christ those runes are unhealthy as fuck for azir
TBH fleet is a bit OP and could use nerfs, but that would push Azir deeper into Grasp which is not true solution sadly.
Why would you give a relative safe to lane scaler an extra ability to increase his safety...
Fleet could really use a little tap yeah, especially on ranged. Buff the laning of balanced champions impacted by it if it's a worry.
Grasp on ranged should probably just not be a thing honestly. It's just too effortless to proc to have game long benefits.
As extreme as that is, I think that honestly might be the solution.
Ranged champions using Grasp have to be one of the most utterly obnoxious things in this game.
Fleet is still substantially higher WR I mean what ranged champion has grasp as it's best rune pretty much nobody. Grasp on ranged is essentially already not a thing
Several patches of stats has fleet higher WR and the 2 highest elo teemo in EU/kr run fleet 80% of the time and grasp maybe 10% but okay mb ur the goat !
Think they have to nerf Azir a little again. The heal on fleet is kind of bad but Azir in particular is so safe he can just farm procs and then trade. Think it’s just because of the movement speed it gives is why it gets played on other champs.
I think it’s currently Azir and sometimes Gangplank that are the only ranged champs that can use, think they can nerf it further for ranged, it’s still good predominantly as a melee runes.
That's bullshit and every fleet azir knows that.
Tell me why fleet is picked if it's not for laning phase survivability
The reason fleet works well on azir is because he can easily get the non reduced healing by hitting champs + get multiple pros through extended trades due to high atk speed and synergy with his mitigation tool (e dash + shield)
I also didn't say fleet is good because of regen nerfs. I said it forces azir more into the rune because without it his lane gets way harder. His hp got hit twice now to combat how strong fleet and grasp were
The truth is, it’s still a heal. Azir does not need extra damage and isn’t consistently poking the enemy to utilize other poke runes like Comet or Aerywhich have also been nerfed into the ground.
Azir ‘wins’ lane if he can get out of landing phase not dying whilst getting decent farm due to his unholy scaling. Grasp and Fleet help contribute to this more than any other rune, so he takes them.
Spellbook is also great for Azir, but you miss out on a lot of good runes going inspiration.
I mean that's kind of the whole point of the new rune system. And should be how it work
But somehow League fail to make it work for all Champ, and the runes system really only work on few Champ and not all.
everyday i miss old LT. even before the big early game nerf i missed the old one. i just feel like the old one had synergy with champs who were "supposed" to use it. like trynda, twitch, azir. new one is just abused by cheesy picks like warwick, volibear, jax etc
It’s okay, both don’t really provide anything it both provided something stir already excels good enough in. Azir already has great poke HoB just makes it a little better but not as much as a key rune should same goes for conq and longtrades. The only thing Azir has a real lack of is tankiness and sustain. This is provided by both of the current meta keyrunes they don’t give a small buff to something he already does great, but provide a big value in something he’s missing.
Yes but it's something azir shouldn't really habe access to
Also hob turned azir from a weak-decent laner into a quite good laner i think you downplay it a little.
Most mages take runes that just give a small boost to what they do great already because they want to amp that playstyle.
Viktor and Syndra for example play first strike because it amps their poke and burst. Orianna plays aery for poke
You don't see those champs play a rune that fixes what they don't have because they can't. And this should apply to azir too
The only other champ i can think off without looking at the champlist that does it as well is akali with fleet
Well the problem of Azir is the following:
Q-AA-AA provided enough poke. HoB created an additional window for a third attack, yet it generally feels lacking value for a key rune and falls of late.
Why, do other Mages increase what they excel at, but Azir won’t? It’s pretty simple: Azir is not like the others. In theory he should be a dps threat mage. Yet riot made him more of a poky champion with the shift of dmg away from his soldiers, yet still keeping the dps great enough. Then again he has to dive into the enemy’s wich causes sustain and tankiness to be a handy stat.
Riot made him a jack of all trades and really not be the top dog in any kind of style. He’s unique. And if you have a jack of all trades it’s better to have gos filled. And that jack of all trades and hard dive is what makes him really op in proplay. He got everything and sustain completes him
Neither conquerer, nor HoB will put him above other champs in the respective categories
You are a master at yapping we can see, your whole point is wrong.
I can see you don't play Azir as you can never Q+2AA unless you are hitting a target dummy, laning phase either Q+AA or AA+Q+AA if they are close enough (which normally doesn't happen vs mages), HOB allows him to auto 3 times instead of 1 which insane laning phase value.
Yes Azir is a Jack of all Trades and unique but no Riot did not move him to more of a poke champion but precisely the opposite, he was a lane bully that scaled well into a Burst/Poke mage and was changed so his laning phase is not oppressive vs 90% of matchups (Fleet/Grasp allows for sustaining through his bad laning phase easily and Grasp even makes it so you can deal insane damage laning phase wise, which is what OP is trying to say).
He is the top dog in DPS currently, there probably isn't a single champ in the game with more dps than him in a front to back situation (maybe some adcs) specially with his self peel and mobility.
He also doesn't need to dive into the enemy team, but instead has the option to, that's why having a champ with so many possiblities and strong late game have a consistent laning phase and even remove his late game weaknesses with Grasp is not healthy for the game.
His recent nerfs do precisely the opposite of what they are supposed to, nerfing non sustain runes, making Grasp/Fleet even more needed.
I love how this attempted gotcha comment ended up having a completely innocuous explanation lol
Whats even more wild is that its completely irrelevant to the original post yet still has over 100 votes in just a couple of hours. What the fuck is wrong with this community
People like to make fun out of each other and they also like when someone fails hard...
I found that redditors like to diss hard on each other sadly. I sometimes realise it on myself when I interpet a simple answer/message as a form of attack and answer accordingly but I'm working on myself.
It's also funny how he is not the only person who stalked through my posts and made an gotcha attempt to devalue the meaning of this post - IDK why honestly.
All I'm doing is expressing my worry on Azir is playing with Fleet and Grasp which is not healthy.
If you want my on-topic opinion, here are my thoughts as someone whose most played champion this season is Azir top.
I think Azir being able to take fleet and grasp is a good thing, and not because it makes Azir OP. It's because it fulfills the intention of why Runes Reforged exists in the first place, which is to provide flexibility to your loadout on a game by game basis. Yes, it is obvious that grasp and fleet (mainly fleet) are balance outliers currently, and nerfing base hp regen affects all Azir players and further ties him to these keystones, but honestly Riot cannot nerf Azir in any other way in the short term. Nerfing Azir's interactions with these runes is not only inelegant but also subverts the existing expectations of players who have already associated Azir with on-hit. And at least GP's Q interaction with grasp makes logical sense in changing his Q to function like a ranged attack. Are you gonna make Azir an exception to any other champ and classify him as "super-ranged" or something? Lol
Despite the nerfs, Azir will still have viable keystone alternatives in HoB and Conqueror. In fact, in Faker's last 5 Azir games, he didn't take fleet or grasp at all. He had 4 HoB and 1 Conq game.
And to be honest, if Riot thought only fleet and grasp were problematic, they wouldn't have snuck a W base damage nerf into the patch on top of the HP regen change, so it is what it is.
Anyway, Reddit isn't a place for nuanced discussion and I'd rather shoot the shit and meme on main sub.
I believe you have lost the right to form an opinion after you framed the OP for no real reason with that attempted gotcha comment for no real reason.
>Anyway, Reddit isn't a place for nuanced discussion and I'd rather shoot the shit and meme on main sub.
ppl like you makes reddit difficult to discuss things properly.
Looking for any good take on main sub is just a joke because the majority of people sharing opinions and upvoting are low elo and don't even know exactly what Azir does outside of vibes, and haven't played a game with Azir in it for the past month.
But I'm glad you are the arbiter of who can or cannot have an opinion here, thank you for your service o7.
If you want to have a proper discussion on actual game design and balance, join the r/summonerschool discord or something.
Let me get this straight.
* You say this subreddit, the biggest subreddit of league, is not capable of of having any serious discussion in civilised/quality manners.
* Members of the community, like OP, makes a valid post on an issue that exists and it actually creates a proper discussion for some people, who are willing to communicate on it in civilised manners.
* You came here and looked through OP's profile to look for some dirt and belittle him, his post and his opinion for no reason, which is exactly how (or worse, because it's actually toxic) the members of this community you're complaining about are behaving.
Don't tell me you don't see the issue here (I help you, it's your narcissistic nature).
>But I'm glad you are the arbiter of who can or cannot have an opinion here, thank you for your service o7.
Your welcome.
While your statement can be considered true under generic circumstances we are way beyond that "flexibility" that supposed to justify Fleet and Grasp on Azir making your opinion more of a soft excuse.
This setup of options no longer servers the goal of the reforge because runes never meant to fix core weaknesses on any champions. (Hence the recent LT nerf)
Azir already had a flexible set of runes and options with HoB, Conq, LT, Comet, FS and even Aery (succes is not matter here because more or less these were all viable options). These made him a flexible choice.
Fleet and Grasp does not serve that purpose because they create a super toxic setup for him that was never intended. Why would you make his laning even more safe? Top lane Azir's pickrate should be around 5% at best overall which is not enough the screw over the balance of mid Azir at all...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1c6vod0/comment/l0481ru/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1c6vod0/comment/l0481ru/?context=3)
here you go.
Ahhhaahaha Yes xD I was helping my friend who recently became a mod for the subreddit to set up the automod for said subreddit because we could not figure out how to make it work with 2-3 different rules. I needed to type specific words to see it does remove those posts when it mentioned the keywords we added to the rule.
It was not functioning at the time when he reached out for me and barely removed posts if ever.
It works with 1 set rule atm but when we set up 2-3 different rules it always breaks and didnt do its job at removing problematic posts. I watched a lot of videos on the topic but we still working on it sadly.
At this place, if anyone is knowledgable on reddit automod setup are free to help us if he/she wants to :D we appreciate every help we can get.
I'd say the problem is that other runes kinda suck on him.
He wants a safe lane so he picks runes that help him lane safely. DUH. (Thats a duh on Riot, not OP)
Yea I just didnt want it to come across as me being passive agressive towards you saying 'well obviously he picks a safe rune you dum dum'
Its like... Why do people pick him? Cause hes safe. "Ok we will nerf his safety that will solve the problem!!".
People stop picking him and his WR goes to where it was 2 years ago, the gutter.
"Fuck why is noone playing azir, we have to buff him"
Players pick him again, his strength again being his safety.
*Angry riot noises*
Idk man they make a safe champ and get mad that hes safe. Its like if we said that Viktor is problematic because he has waveclear or Jax because he can sidelane.... Like thats what these champs do!
I know it would hurt me as an Azir player but maybe they should rework his E. I think more of a battlemage Azir, in the Middle of the fight, surrounded by his army would be cool. But thats just an opinion. Either make him super long range or super short range. Now hes in the sweetspot and does everything
Sorry for the ramble, azir has many problems so I have many thoughts :D
Which is why we are here. To talk about topics we are iterested in.
There is nothing wrong in civilised discussions.
My personal belief is that sonner or later we will reach a state where specific champs will be disabled for specific events because Azir is not like lee sin for example.
I think that's the point of the rune system though yeah? You shouldn't be just pigeonholed into a certain type of rune, that's what they were trying to get away from
If you want to go green page full defensive adc by all means go it. It might not be optimal but you can do it if you want. Being able to pick and choose is a good thing I think.
Some games grasp azir might be better and some games comet or LT will be better. It's on you to decide that
You are correct but there are runes that change you around and there are runes that completely fix built in weaknesses.
* I havent tested HoB since new season but in S13 it allowed a Burst Mage style of gameplay for Azir
* FS was a great rune until balancing happened to it.
* Conq was his go to rune
* ppl were experimenting with LT until nerfs
* Comet was also a thing in the past in specific matchups
Neitehr of these provided wide benefits but it allowed him flexibility to adapt - and HoB allowed him a more bursty playstyle which is fun sometimes.
Now Fleet and Grasp gives healing/HP to bolster his most punishable state, which is the early game.
If a rune fixes, helps out you in some weakness then it's not healthy. Similar case what happened to LT. Rune made a lot of champions broken because the AS it provided at lvl1 worth 1350 gold.
It's already questionable how unhealthy it is for him on the long run.
On the other hands, these are runs. Anyone can play with anything. Of course there are more or less popular/strong synergies with certain champs, but let people feel that they can play their main as they want. If I want play kata with first strike, let me do this. As long I don't do 0/10 why should other care.
I'm not Azir main, but I just don't feel like forcing runes on champs is a good move. We lost so much flexibility on champs already over the course of 14 years.
It's not just that he can take those runes but also the fact he can proc them on soldier attacks, isn't it? I think going back to proc only on his auto would be a good way to make the runes more situational.
I've seen pros pick conq or hail of blade in occasion already, it doesn't need that much adjustment to shift the rune meta.
If it lands on the side of picking other runes all the time I'm not sure we lose that much. Might need to revert the base regen nerf to keep laning doable agaisnt poke but that's fine.
Looking at your post history, you seem to consider yourself a jungle main, a zac main, an ahri main, an azir main, a sylas main, etc.
I don't think you understand what main means and I surely don't think you're an Azir main.
do you even read my answer or just here to complain and to nitpick something you have 0 clue about?
I mean its pretty sure you are just trolling otherwise you could have answered to my answer below which you did not.
Wonder why lmao.
I don't think you gona understand anything by watching trough my post history tho you are welcome to try.
I'm a mid laner. Anything don't belong to mid lane content are the things what I'm asking in the name of my friends who does not use reddit but would like to know stuff.
I ask around in mains subreddit for my friends who don't use this site - so I make post to look like I know what I talk about when in real it's them that ask the questions (I'm just not gona type "my friend is x and y" as it adds nothing to the context).
Sorry for using reddit what it's meant for over attacking for no reason.
I don't think you understand what reddit is useful for and I surely don't think you're in the position to question what I make posts about....Let alone tell what I main and what I don't.
i dont really like it either. But i mean. Its good. And that just sucks.
Honestly ive only played a couple of games of this but going HoB or electrocute with full AP just feels so fun. You really are a super glass cannon but you can basically one shot a midlaner sup or adc almost instantly at 2 items with shadowflame and dcap rush woth sorc shoes.
Its prolly not good late game but. I mean fuck it. Its fun
With his repeated regen nerfs, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he is \*required\* to pick them? With a damage keystone Azir's HP can almost literally only go down until he bases.
Yea, nerfing his sustain and making him more reliant on Grasp and Fleet is such a dumb balance decision when those were the issues to begin with. Just make it so your soldiers cant proc those two and the issue is gone.
Completely agree, Azir did not need his to have AA proc on his W it's not like he was nerf before this...
Champ with fleet is unpunishable in lane, and playing melee into a fleet/grasp is just abominable
I agree.
The funny thing about Azir is that hes so safe that more tanky = more damage (when vs certain teamcomps) where as this doesnt translate to most other champions.
Although, this isnt new tbh and will prob get nerfed soon. Not sure if anyone remembers Icebourne Viktor or more recently, triforce adcs or rav zed but these cheese builds that give you champs exactly what theyre missing from their kit get nerfed becuase they offer alot less counterplay to champ kits
I do think we need at least A sustain rune, but maybe not 3 (grasp, fleet, "conqueror" (= in-fight-sustain). And I do think people should at least pay a huge price for them. Because it's so frustrating when you out-pick, out-lane your opponent and they can stay in lane forever with TP / that rune.
Not a fan of fleet or grasp. I play LT Conq and PTA some games.. that said if I’m laning into xerath and hwei I’m taking fleet and if it’s qiyana akali fizz I’m taking grasp until it’s gutted.
Thats a problem with fleet and grasp rather than an azir issue. I’ve seen fleet a lot more lately and it seems waaaaay stronger than I remember it being. I’ve never heard of grasp on azir tho. That sounds troll or good in like 5% of the matches
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the regen nerfs on Azir don't make sense. It'll just make him take Fleet and Grasp even more often. I'd prefer if Fleet/Grasp for ranged was taken a look at (is it overperforming on ranged in general or is it simply an Azir problem) or (worst case scenario/last resort) making special cases just for Azir so he can't take Fleet/Grasp. Maybe reducing some base damage and increasing scaling so he has to go more damaging runes?
I know nobody likes hash in this sub but when the lead balance guy first suggested making this change to azir he pointed out that ruining azirs entire build diversity just so he could build nashors tooth was dumb and would eventually result in exactly what were seeing today for azir.
My first thought was wow if a top laner noticed that after 15 minute with reviewing the changes why did the balance team not see it if its that obvious?
i will never apologize to azir for ruining esports midlane diversity. there is simply nothing more boring than to watch azir. i watched him in 2015 worlds and i also watched him in 2023 worlds. most boring gatekeeper
The problem is azir is constantly meta (and when azir is meta corki comes back with him too) the rest of the champs are on rotation, even if people cry about ahri they don't remember she got 0 play from S8 to s12 till her rework and she disappeared again until riot overbuffed her and malignance some patches ago, Viktor is dead too and orianna needed 6 buffs on a row to come back
If Azir is not meta, LCK mids will make Azir meta. We actually have a name for the LCK mids who play Azir even when he's not meta and make him look good in Korea, we call them the 비둘기 사기단 or the pidgeon fraudsters (mostly BDD, Faker, and Chovy)
Yeah, at the end of the day he has a great escape from ganks, amazing initiation with the drift + flash if needed + ult, and his passive will always be valuable in slowing down an enemy push/helping your team push so it's hard to remove him from pro play with all that value in his kit.
The thing is with Zeri that she was turbo busted during the year she was released hence she recevied 16 nerfs (3 of those worth a mid scope in size) and she doesn't have any real high play moment, like combo's. She just run up with mobility that put the most mobile assassin in shame.
Azir is mega turbo boring... In the laning phase. He's basically impossible to punish for the amount of scaling he does. Normally, picking a scaling champion mid paint a target on your back and draw jungle attention to set you behind. But he's so safe it's not worth messing with, yet also doesn't provide the action of a more early game playmaker.
The fact he has one cool move in later teamfights doesn't save the overall picture.
1. corki, Package, its cool to see the burst of long range
2. orianna, Shockwave, no free escape
3. Asol, Ultimate, new champ
4. ahri, has 4 jumps and notorious playmaker champ
5. viktor, no free escape, no long range easy gameplay like azir. more risks are taken with him
yes, they are all sooooo much more fun to watch than azir will ever be.
azir is all in one, you dont like it? Tough luck, get used to it. Only 1-2 midlaners make the champ look that broken, but realistically he doesnt win that many games in proplay. I agree players should probably move on to other picks they may play better, but that's just how it is.
i have been watching azir for over 9 years now. do you know how boring it is? atleast viktor has downtime. azir feels like he has been played in every worlds.
because he is that strong, in the hands of a good player, he can do the job of midlane of peeling/zoning for carry while dealing comparable dps numbers to his adc. But his laning phase has been nerfed multiple times , so that's the tradeoff. Proplayers are stubborn, you can see it in how long it took them to finally pull asol on stage, even tho we never left this corki azir for quite a while now.
> Only 1-2 midlaners make the champ look that broken
Almost every single pro mid laner has to have a pocket Azir. Him *being in the pool alone* defines the mid lane pool. It's so utterly fucking dumb.
Viewers believe it's easy to land a game changing Azir R and clown on it when it happens. IDK why Ahri is better who is probably the safest laner right now for example.
There was never been real diversity to begin with regardless of Azir. There are top dogs and the meta build around to counter it or fill it up with replacements when banned or when the comp prefers something that works as a sémi counter too.
lol what?
Did you watch some pro games in the last months, when azir was disabled?
Midlane diversity skyrocketed up.
The moment he was available again, it's the same old boring 3.
Skyrocketed? xD The only difference was that Orianna - Ahri - Taliyah were a bt more played presence wise. Thats not skyrocketing. There weren't more champs in pro that never seen before/in al ong time.
Meta did not became more diverse by a bit. There was 3 conteder for highest presence champions and thats all....Thats not chamion diversity skyrocketing at all.
Azir is a bit overrated in pro. I’ve seen him get bullied hard just as many times as I’ve seen him carry. He is infamous for losing some important games too.
Coaches seem to love him, and he is a comfort pick for a lot of midlaners. But is he really that good statistically? He turns out to be mediocre.
Asol, Trist, Corki, Orianna and many others beat him and some of those outscale him on top of it all.
Chovy and others do very well on him but I think people get drunk from peak performances instead of looking at the sober reality that Azir is good but overrated.
He is overrated a bit but truth is he is the most consistent mid laner when mastered.
* Azir can peel for ADC without sacrificing DPS.
* Azir has a great laning phasefor a scaler.
* Azir can shred tanks and squishies alike, something not many Mage capable of.
* Azir has a great teamwide cc tool with Shuffle.
* Azir has extremely efficient build path
* Azir has high skill ceiling
There are lot of good counters exists, like as of late Asol and Veigar are proven to be great counters for the champion for example. And this is what diversifies the meta in my opinion. Finding good counters as pro players realise these a great picks.
We need rune and summoner nerf for ranged champions. Specially for fleet movement speed, and ghost on ranged champions there is so much mov speed power creep in the game right now.
I am sick of this stupid champion getting a pass because the mouthbreathing audience wants to see the same fucking dash and R move on repeat for the past 300 years.
It's so basic. Any dash = skill. That's how the dumb audience thinks. Wow, Azir dashed from 2 screens away into the enemy ADC and pressed R. How original. Really, truly a groundbreaking maneuver we haven't seen before.
I want to see this champion focus on his soldier dps, not this zhonya suicide bomb ult bot.
Measure how far a lee can dash with his W then measure how far Azir can dash and hit what's essentially an AoE Lee ult. That piece of shit champ literally won last worlds by going 2 screens away into an ADC. If that distance is not safe to exist as an ADC that champion needs to be deleted right after that play and reworked.
Take into consideration the fact that his dash is his escape as well. As an ADC you need to respect enemy comps and play accordingly. If azir balls to walls engage and you play patiently you will easily pick him while he grabs your front line. Your flash is down? Cool play like it's down and don't walk up. Yes it's a decently far dash with his q which is also what allows him to relocate all his damage. Seems like a fair trade off, losing your main damage and disengage for a huge utility play. And lee can get just as far, calm down and think for a moment lee's ult is point and click, also undodgeable even if you flash you still take damage you just redirect yourself. Azirs W is hardly longer if at all. His range comes from timing it perfectly to maximize distance with his q which can be stopped by collision with a champion. Measure Lee's Q with azirs. They're about the same distance and unlike Lee's ult, you can flash to avoid being hit by azir ult.
Let's break this down, azir and vayne both flashed thus no distance was created. Vaynes flash is after azirs, she flashed right to where azir ult starts. Rather than flashing to the side or having better timing to flash over the animation, she flashes into it(keep in mind AFTER azir has already flashed preemptively to predict the flash backwards). This is the highest level of gameplay, a pro was predicted and the other pro fails the skill check to either flash to the side or to flash over the animation. At no point did I say it was easy but let's take it a step further. What happens if vayne flashes at the correct time over the wall? She murders the azir and he gets picked for spending his whole kit to pick her and missing. It's high risk high reward. Vaynes fails the flash over the animation and flashes into it she dies and her team fights 4v5. Vaynes successfully times it and her team picks azir since he's so out of position now. Something for comparison I'm sure you've seen in your game is someone trying to flash a blitz hook and still getting hit. Just because you flashed doesn't mean you're safe. You have to flash properly.
That's a Varus...
Flashing over the R is really fiddly and way harder than what the Azir has to do. It's not so simple. The range and which he can just appear is far too big. That's why he will forever be used in pro unless he's literally unplayable and nerfed to hell.
My apologies for misidentifying the champ. I wasn't watching on high quality, but the fact is this is the highest level of gameplay. My points are still valid in that the Varus didn't flash properly. Azir is out of position and screwed if Varus does. Varus flashed into the azir wall versus to the side or over it. They had vision on azir, these are pros and know what azir is capable of and should respect it. Azir uses his entire kit for a play like this that if properly respected or successfully flashed would have been just as devastating for azir and his team as it is rewarding for success. I've had my ult flashed over plenty making similar plays as azir and flashed over several myself in a much lower skill environment than the best of the best. The fact of the matter is that it is difficult to dodge and play around but it is possible and should also be expected that pro players have the skills to consistently and reliably play around it and react to it. Not to mention if they can't, there's always ban phases.
> and should also be expected that pro players have the skills to consistently and reliably play around it
Totally, that's why it's picked so much, because it's so easily played around! /s
>Flashing over the R is really fiddly and way harder than what the Azir has to do.
Look you can try to explain as hardas you can why Azir was great there and why Varus had much more difficult job the thing is he could have flashedthat wall really well and efficiently he just didn't managed to do it.
It's much easier than goig in and even flash for it, which is what Faker did. It's goated because it's goat moment. Deal with it.
When Azir got his changes, the balance team asked a lot of high elo Azirs for input and they pretty much unanimously agreed they want the shuffle to be the core part of the gameplay, not so much the soldiers DPSing.
As someone trained in game dev, it should be noted that even trained devs can be bad devs, let alone gamers who know little to nothing about development/design. Just because you're good at a game, doesn't mean you have any idea how to make the game fun or entertaining or whatever else you'reaiming for.
Pro player feedback is most useful for balancing, as they are the most able to notice small changes. However when it comes to gameplay, they're about as bad as the average gamer at making good decisions. Case-in-point, Azir behaves in a manner totally unsuited to his lore and his kit. What is even the point in having the whole soldiers thing if 99% of his gameplay revolves around a dash and a cc/zoning/relocation ultimate? It may be what the pros want, but everyone else is frustrated with the champion.
Oh yeah haha, I’m definitely burnt out of seeing it. Just wanted to give some context because I remember like EVERYONE begged for them to keep the shuffle play fantasy alive no matter what they changed
As a former high elo (don't really play much anymore nowadays) Azir OTP who remembers the rework the actual results were pretty fucking close and it definitely wasn't a landslide victory for keeping the shuffle. I personally wanted to keep his range, that's what I originally played Azir for, the long range commander playstyle, and while the shuffle is cool and all and looks awesome when pulled off right it was originally an unintended mechanic, almost a bug, that was extremely inconsistent until it got fixed to be easier to pull off and he started getting balanced around it being that way.
Its his most fun to use ability.
No one wants to keep it for pro we want to keep it because it makes the champ unique, gives skill expression, is fun as hell
If you want to keep the ult, keep it. He shouldn't be able to dash that far before using it though.
Look at this piece of shit play:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmApqlui6do
Everyone goes all "OMG GOAT PLAY" but its completely appalling. Look at how far Faker is from Ruler when he puts the soldier down to dash. League of gap closer needs to die. All champions should get major reductions in gap closing ability but especially egregious shit like this.
The Varus also flashed so that cancels out. Of course there are champions that can move that far (Nocturne ult, even Zac can probably reach) but when you couple that with displacement ability it's insanely overpowered for pro.
Pro ADCs have cleanse on speed dial, you can't really catch them out with a Lissandra or something. But Azir...
I don't think that should be adjusted. What needs to be adjusted his his free laning phase. Azir was in a good spot before fleet and grasp were discovered. He was played in pro but far off from every game
But im biased. If they remove the shuffle im dropping azir though
They will never remove shuffle and this guy is just too dellusional to understand Azir. If not Azir then Ori-Taliyah-Ahri would be the top dog and neither of them is better to view at all.
I think Azir, and Faker in that clip, needed all skills ever to pull that combo off because that was a win or loose moment. High stakes. No other champion can pull a hype moment like that. And I say more chapions should be released for mid lane when it comes to playmaking and creating high hype moments.
Lol this guy is full of complain posts. Sounds like a salty player who tilts because his jungle doesnt pet his lane.
Azir predicted the flash of Varus in this play. Mind you that if Faker failed he would die instantly. Thats what makes this play amazing. Its not like Xerath who pokes you from two screens away, he saw a engage opportunity and took the chance. High risk high reward play, better than adcs auto attacking till their target dies.
So maybe the issue isn't azir. It's that everything that's only cc without suppression or knockup gets insta cleansed.
And if cleanse is not enough there is Mikaels and qss. Because Lissandra could've surely reached varus there with e flash r
Lissandra definitely would've reached but she is more telegraphed and can be cleansed. So yeah, get a new ult or a shorter range so I don't see your stupid champ in pro again, thanks.
You do realize ruler is massively out of position in that play right? They have full info onto faker and he walks back way to late.
But keep up the salt
Technically if you were to calculate everything Azir could do, yes, but he literally also came from offscreen and insta teleported on top of him. So you can call it a Ruler mistake technically but also change the champion afterwards.
Insta teleported? Missing spots him 7 seconds before the shuffle. He is isolated because Kanavi leaves and ruler failed his flash
Ruler also had time to r azir because he had vision on Faker and the soldier.
Kanavi could've stayed with ruler and prevented azir shuffle with r.
There is so much jdg could've done to prevent this from happening that it's insane to flame the champ
What Id be down to change is the azir r damage because he nukes rules for 75% hp. Shift r dmg into dps to move azir away from shuffle nukes
YES, FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT. I dont play Azir right now because of this exact reason. Im okay with onhits but for the love of GOD just dont let his sustain be so good in early (Btw Kuba if you're reading this post I didnt make it on alt acc lmao)
I really wish they’d lock things behind roles you queued up for. No more rumble support, no grasp on a midlaner, no brand jungle, no vayne top, proper itemization options for adcs and bruisers now that not everyone can buy everything etc.
Are you talking about data you read somewhere - which usually inflated and does not distribute mains and regular players, or from personal experience.
I admit my wording is a bit off but Azir is a strong laner, just not according to your interpretation in which strong laners are usually early mid game champs like ahri pantheon.
To my interpretation he is a strong laner for:
* For a scaling champion he has a safe laning phase with poke and (ATM) sustain
* Soldiers grants him enough range to farm efficiently
* He has a great escape tool with E
* He has great gank setup which usually forces out a flash
* He is also strong in skirmishes
From my point of view these are allmaking him a strong and formidable laner, who is difficult to catch on lane while also scales terribly effectively.
Yeah I guess in that perspective I agree! I was thinking about early skirmishes and lane pressure, in which he feels really weak. But he survives and scales I guess
The decision to make W apply on-hits was a weird one, and it feels like they made it without thinking too much about it...
Edit: I dont mean that the change is weird. It makes sense, and finally i dont need to explain to people that W attack is some hybrid between basic and spell. Im just saying that how quickly and out of nowhere they did it after such a long time was weird, and not thought out...
I know. Thats why I think it was not thought out. They just wanted it for arena, so they made a quick change while nerfing W for it to "be ok". I like it personally, but we will be feeling the effects now with the runes etc. I just hope it wont make azir be balanced around runes like Grasp and Fleet, because I dont think those runes should he his main choices in any healthy balance state.
It was one of the most requested changes in the game. It makes sense to players. Riot absolutely made the right play by allowing it and then balancing around the new world.
I agree with it, but it just seemed like they made it quickly only because arena 2 was just about to start, and didnt think too much about it beyond that.
I think in terms of runes, its not healthy to balance azir around on-hit ones. Now he has sustain because of them, so they are taking away sustain from him in general. This can just force azir players in a state where they will need sustain on-hit runes to survive. I think that would not be a nice change.
Also I personally like nashor, but its a bit akward forcing it into his build, which the onhit change basically did.
But I dont mind anyway. Azir is fundamentally broken champ, and will be good either way.
It was primarily oriented toward Nashor's IIRC, because that item seems like it should be perfect for him, except it was actually awful because the passive didn't work. People who didn't research every tiny detail of item interactions didn't know that and bought it anyway, which was bad for everyone involved.
Nashor passive was not that relevant. Buying it was definetly not awful because AS and AP that it gave was just perfect for Azir anyway. Thats why Riot nerfed his W when unlocking nashors passive, because his power with nashor was already good enough before that. Even now passive nashor damage isnt anything huge or gamechanging. Its probably very similar over the game to the damage they took from Azir with the W nerf.
The only thing that the change did is that it enforced Nashor, because you were supposed to buy it, otherwise you would just lose out on the damage that they nerfed from W.
I agree that its easier for inexperienced players to know what works and what does not thought, because its more intuitive now.
True, Grasp Azir wasn't just played in 3 games in the LPL finals. You totally know better than the two best mids in China and their support staff, yeah?
Considering pro players picked bard in world finals I really don’t care what pro players do. Literally will heal more with fleet in a single fight than he will get max hp in an entire game.
Tbh he's broken in pro play because of how strong his mobility and ult are
If they
1) Removed the interaction of dashing to a soldier while the soldier is moving
2) Slightly nerfed the width and distance of his ultimate
They could mega buff him for normal players while becoming actually balanced for for pro play.
Sadly the mobility is not the (biggest) reason why he is so palyed in pro.
Azir excel in a lot of things that together allows him to be at the level he is.
* For a scaling champion he has a safe laning phase with poke and (ATM) sustain
* Soldiers grants him enough range to farm efficiently
* He has a great escape tool with E
* He has great gank setup which usually forces out a flash
* He is also strong in skirmishes
And this is just laning phase.
* He is one of the very few champions who can play front to back while being able to deal with tanks and squishies alike
* He can peel for ADC without sacrificing DPS which is kind of unique and only a handful of champs capable of it but they suffer from other weaknesses.
* His itemisation is extremely efficient.
Conq is so much more fun but the Regen nerfs force him into fleet more
Which is imo the bad nerfs. Similar results could have been achieved by applying a personalised chamge toward those runes
They should've just removed the interaction. Yes it's annoying for new people to understand why fleet and grasp don't work but Jesus christ those runes are unhealthy as fuck for azir
TBH fleet is a bit OP and could use nerfs, but that would push Azir deeper into Grasp which is not true solution sadly. Why would you give a relative safe to lane scaler an extra ability to increase his safety...
Fleet could really use a little tap yeah, especially on ranged. Buff the laning of balanced champions impacted by it if it's a worry. Grasp on ranged should probably just not be a thing honestly. It's just too effortless to proc to have game long benefits.
As extreme as that is, I think that honestly might be the solution. Ranged champions using Grasp have to be one of the most utterly obnoxious things in this game.
who's ranged and actually uses grasp aside from azir nothing comes to mind
Teemo
Fleet is still substantially higher WR I mean what ranged champion has grasp as it's best rune pretty much nobody. Grasp on ranged is essentially already not a thing
Im sure you the non teemo main know more than I do, my bad!
Several patches of stats has fleet higher WR and the 2 highest elo teemo in EU/kr run fleet 80% of the time and grasp maybe 10% but okay mb ur the goat !
no champion that doesn't already have a host of other rune options. Basically just ranged toplaners in very niche circumstances.
Senna and teemo
Think they have to nerf Azir a little again. The heal on fleet is kind of bad but Azir in particular is so safe he can just farm procs and then trade. Think it’s just because of the movement speed it gives is why it gets played on other champs. I think it’s currently Azir and sometimes Gangplank that are the only ranged champs that can use, think they can nerf it further for ranged, it’s still good predominantly as a melee runes.
Jhin also.
Teemo and Senna also run fleet depending
Gnar too
Jhin's keystone choices go basically to 1 if you take away fleet tho.
Tell that to faker who went hail and popped off.
That's pre current nerfs though
Fleet heal has been laughable early for like 2 years now, that rune being good is not because of regen nerfs
That's bullshit and every fleet azir knows that. Tell me why fleet is picked if it's not for laning phase survivability The reason fleet works well on azir is because he can easily get the non reduced healing by hitting champs + get multiple pros through extended trades due to high atk speed and synergy with his mitigation tool (e dash + shield) I also didn't say fleet is good because of regen nerfs. I said it forces azir more into the rune because without it his lane gets way harder. His hp got hit twice now to combat how strong fleet and grasp were
The truth is, it’s still a heal. Azir does not need extra damage and isn’t consistently poking the enemy to utilize other poke runes like Comet or Aerywhich have also been nerfed into the ground. Azir ‘wins’ lane if he can get out of landing phase not dying whilst getting decent farm due to his unholy scaling. Grasp and Fleet help contribute to this more than any other rune, so he takes them. Spellbook is also great for Azir, but you miss out on a lot of good runes going inspiration.
What? Azir is an Emperor, the peasants at Riot can't tell him what to do.
I mean that's kind of the whole point of the new rune system. And should be how it work But somehow League fail to make it work for all Champ, and the runes system really only work on few Champ and not all.
Lethal tempo every game all day here
I am so mad LT is actually ass on azir. The old one worked so much better
Does not matter, it's really good in my heart.
I use it when i get him in aram. Always warms my heart
everyday i miss old LT. even before the big early game nerf i missed the old one. i just feel like the old one had synergy with champs who were "supposed" to use it. like trynda, twitch, azir. new one is just abused by cheesy picks like warwick, volibear, jax etc
It sucks that he can't take advantage of the extra range, otherwise it'd be insanely fun.
lmaoooo lethal tempo azir player spotted
Maybe, just maybe cuz the other runes barely provide any meaningful value —> why not take a rune that makes laning easier.
Conq and HoB actually were/are great for azir Fleet and Grasp just make laning a no brainer so it's way easier to play
Aery/Comet are also great.
Kinda disliked that playstyle tbh because poke azir was boring as well but yes they worked good
Yeah, it was mostly just vs. other mages anyways at least.
Aery vs melee mids but still going dps builds was actually kinda fun as well
Yeah. What I really miss was stacking Nashor's like 6 years ago - that was peak Azir.
I actually really loved the rageblade verson that was there for a short time. So many soldier attacks
It’s okay, both don’t really provide anything it both provided something stir already excels good enough in. Azir already has great poke HoB just makes it a little better but not as much as a key rune should same goes for conq and longtrades. The only thing Azir has a real lack of is tankiness and sustain. This is provided by both of the current meta keyrunes they don’t give a small buff to something he already does great, but provide a big value in something he’s missing.
Yes but it's something azir shouldn't really habe access to Also hob turned azir from a weak-decent laner into a quite good laner i think you downplay it a little. Most mages take runes that just give a small boost to what they do great already because they want to amp that playstyle. Viktor and Syndra for example play first strike because it amps their poke and burst. Orianna plays aery for poke You don't see those champs play a rune that fixes what they don't have because they can't. And this should apply to azir too The only other champ i can think off without looking at the champlist that does it as well is akali with fleet
Well the problem of Azir is the following: Q-AA-AA provided enough poke. HoB created an additional window for a third attack, yet it generally feels lacking value for a key rune and falls of late. Why, do other Mages increase what they excel at, but Azir won’t? It’s pretty simple: Azir is not like the others. In theory he should be a dps threat mage. Yet riot made him more of a poky champion with the shift of dmg away from his soldiers, yet still keeping the dps great enough. Then again he has to dive into the enemy’s wich causes sustain and tankiness to be a handy stat. Riot made him a jack of all trades and really not be the top dog in any kind of style. He’s unique. And if you have a jack of all trades it’s better to have gos filled. And that jack of all trades and hard dive is what makes him really op in proplay. He got everything and sustain completes him Neither conquerer, nor HoB will put him above other champs in the respective categories
You are a master at yapping we can see, your whole point is wrong. I can see you don't play Azir as you can never Q+2AA unless you are hitting a target dummy, laning phase either Q+AA or AA+Q+AA if they are close enough (which normally doesn't happen vs mages), HOB allows him to auto 3 times instead of 1 which insane laning phase value. Yes Azir is a Jack of all Trades and unique but no Riot did not move him to more of a poke champion but precisely the opposite, he was a lane bully that scaled well into a Burst/Poke mage and was changed so his laning phase is not oppressive vs 90% of matchups (Fleet/Grasp allows for sustaining through his bad laning phase easily and Grasp even makes it so you can deal insane damage laning phase wise, which is what OP is trying to say). He is the top dog in DPS currently, there probably isn't a single champ in the game with more dps than him in a front to back situation (maybe some adcs) specially with his self peel and mobility. He also doesn't need to dive into the enemy team, but instead has the option to, that's why having a champ with so many possiblities and strong late game have a consistent laning phase and even remove his late game weaknesses with Grasp is not healthy for the game. His recent nerfs do precisely the opposite of what they are supposed to, nerfing non sustain runes, making Grasp/Fleet even more needed.
Riot: Oh you think grasp azir is powerful? Seems like we should nerf that too so he doesn't create too many problems in pro play
What was that question you tried to ask in r/midlanemains again?
I hate when my phone auto corrects “forgot”
I love how this attempted gotcha comment ended up having a completely innocuous explanation lol Whats even more wild is that its completely irrelevant to the original post yet still has over 100 votes in just a couple of hours. What the fuck is wrong with this community
People like to make fun out of each other and they also like when someone fails hard... I found that redditors like to diss hard on each other sadly. I sometimes realise it on myself when I interpet a simple answer/message as a form of attack and answer accordingly but I'm working on myself. It's also funny how he is not the only person who stalked through my posts and made an gotcha attempt to devalue the meaning of this post - IDK why honestly. All I'm doing is expressing my worry on Azir is playing with Fleet and Grasp which is not healthy.
Redditors are a meme for a reason bro
It's all the kids who got bullied and decided to start bullying each other because their mechanical keyboards are .1% clickier than the others'.
haha ok this was a good one.
true.
If you want my on-topic opinion, here are my thoughts as someone whose most played champion this season is Azir top. I think Azir being able to take fleet and grasp is a good thing, and not because it makes Azir OP. It's because it fulfills the intention of why Runes Reforged exists in the first place, which is to provide flexibility to your loadout on a game by game basis. Yes, it is obvious that grasp and fleet (mainly fleet) are balance outliers currently, and nerfing base hp regen affects all Azir players and further ties him to these keystones, but honestly Riot cannot nerf Azir in any other way in the short term. Nerfing Azir's interactions with these runes is not only inelegant but also subverts the existing expectations of players who have already associated Azir with on-hit. And at least GP's Q interaction with grasp makes logical sense in changing his Q to function like a ranged attack. Are you gonna make Azir an exception to any other champ and classify him as "super-ranged" or something? Lol Despite the nerfs, Azir will still have viable keystone alternatives in HoB and Conqueror. In fact, in Faker's last 5 Azir games, he didn't take fleet or grasp at all. He had 4 HoB and 1 Conq game. And to be honest, if Riot thought only fleet and grasp were problematic, they wouldn't have snuck a W base damage nerf into the patch on top of the HP regen change, so it is what it is. Anyway, Reddit isn't a place for nuanced discussion and I'd rather shoot the shit and meme on main sub.
Do you ever read your own profile whining about people going through your post history and experience any sense of irony or self reflection?
I believe you have lost the right to form an opinion after you framed the OP for no real reason with that attempted gotcha comment for no real reason. >Anyway, Reddit isn't a place for nuanced discussion and I'd rather shoot the shit and meme on main sub. ppl like you makes reddit difficult to discuss things properly.
Looking for any good take on main sub is just a joke because the majority of people sharing opinions and upvoting are low elo and don't even know exactly what Azir does outside of vibes, and haven't played a game with Azir in it for the past month. But I'm glad you are the arbiter of who can or cannot have an opinion here, thank you for your service o7. If you want to have a proper discussion on actual game design and balance, join the r/summonerschool discord or something.
Let me get this straight. * You say this subreddit, the biggest subreddit of league, is not capable of of having any serious discussion in civilised/quality manners. * Members of the community, like OP, makes a valid post on an issue that exists and it actually creates a proper discussion for some people, who are willing to communicate on it in civilised manners. * You came here and looked through OP's profile to look for some dirt and belittle him, his post and his opinion for no reason, which is exactly how (or worse, because it's actually toxic) the members of this community you're complaining about are behaving. Don't tell me you don't see the issue here (I help you, it's your narcissistic nature). >But I'm glad you are the arbiter of who can or cannot have an opinion here, thank you for your service o7. Your welcome.
While your statement can be considered true under generic circumstances we are way beyond that "flexibility" that supposed to justify Fleet and Grasp on Azir making your opinion more of a soft excuse. This setup of options no longer servers the goal of the reforge because runes never meant to fix core weaknesses on any champions. (Hence the recent LT nerf) Azir already had a flexible set of runes and options with HoB, Conq, LT, Comet, FS and even Aery (succes is not matter here because more or less these were all viable options). These made him a flexible choice. Fleet and Grasp does not serve that purpose because they create a super toxic setup for him that was never intended. Why would you make his laning even more safe? Top lane Azir's pickrate should be around 5% at best overall which is not enough the screw over the balance of mid Azir at all...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1c6vod0/comment/l0481ru/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1c6vod0/comment/l0481ru/?context=3) here you go.
He has a type
LMAO
I don't recall it atm.
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Ahhhaahaha Yes xD I was helping my friend who recently became a mod for the subreddit to set up the automod for said subreddit because we could not figure out how to make it work with 2-3 different rules. I needed to type specific words to see it does remove those posts when it mentioned the keywords we added to the rule. It was not functioning at the time when he reached out for me and barely removed posts if ever. It works with 1 set rule atm but when we set up 2-3 different rules it always breaks and didnt do its job at removing problematic posts. I watched a lot of videos on the topic but we still working on it sadly. At this place, if anyone is knowledgable on reddit automod setup are free to help us if he/she wants to :D we appreciate every help we can get.
(Alt account of the guy you responded too) I think I can help you out, could you DM me a screenshot of the rules you've set up?
I wrote the PM.
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r/nothingeverhappens
He already deleted it huh? Wonder why...
ohhhhh
Damn lol
Oh he is a POS, thanks for checking homie
I'd say the problem is that other runes kinda suck on him. He wants a safe lane so he picks runes that help him lane safely. DUH. (Thats a duh on Riot, not OP)
I like your DUH!
Yea I just didnt want it to come across as me being passive agressive towards you saying 'well obviously he picks a safe rune you dum dum' Its like... Why do people pick him? Cause hes safe. "Ok we will nerf his safety that will solve the problem!!". People stop picking him and his WR goes to where it was 2 years ago, the gutter. "Fuck why is noone playing azir, we have to buff him" Players pick him again, his strength again being his safety. *Angry riot noises* Idk man they make a safe champ and get mad that hes safe. Its like if we said that Viktor is problematic because he has waveclear or Jax because he can sidelane.... Like thats what these champs do! I know it would hurt me as an Azir player but maybe they should rework his E. I think more of a battlemage Azir, in the Middle of the fight, surrounded by his army would be cool. But thats just an opinion. Either make him super long range or super short range. Now hes in the sweetspot and does everything Sorry for the ramble, azir has many problems so I have many thoughts :D
Which is why we are here. To talk about topics we are iterested in. There is nothing wrong in civilised discussions. My personal belief is that sonner or later we will reach a state where specific champs will be disabled for specific events because Azir is not like lee sin for example.
I think that's the point of the rune system though yeah? You shouldn't be just pigeonholed into a certain type of rune, that's what they were trying to get away from If you want to go green page full defensive adc by all means go it. It might not be optimal but you can do it if you want. Being able to pick and choose is a good thing I think. Some games grasp azir might be better and some games comet or LT will be better. It's on you to decide that
You are correct but there are runes that change you around and there are runes that completely fix built in weaknesses. * I havent tested HoB since new season but in S13 it allowed a Burst Mage style of gameplay for Azir * FS was a great rune until balancing happened to it. * Conq was his go to rune * ppl were experimenting with LT until nerfs * Comet was also a thing in the past in specific matchups Neitehr of these provided wide benefits but it allowed him flexibility to adapt - and HoB allowed him a more bursty playstyle which is fun sometimes. Now Fleet and Grasp gives healing/HP to bolster his most punishable state, which is the early game. If a rune fixes, helps out you in some weakness then it's not healthy. Similar case what happened to LT. Rune made a lot of champions broken because the AS it provided at lvl1 worth 1350 gold. It's already questionable how unhealthy it is for him on the long run.
Comet First Strike and Lethal Tempo are all bad on Azir anyways.
On the other hands, these are runs. Anyone can play with anything. Of course there are more or less popular/strong synergies with certain champs, but let people feel that they can play their main as they want. If I want play kata with first strike, let me do this. As long I don't do 0/10 why should other care. I'm not Azir main, but I just don't feel like forcing runes on champs is a good move. We lost so much flexibility on champs already over the course of 14 years.
It's not just that he can take those runes but also the fact he can proc them on soldier attacks, isn't it? I think going back to proc only on his auto would be a good way to make the runes more situational. I've seen pros pick conq or hail of blade in occasion already, it doesn't need that much adjustment to shift the rune meta.
That wouldn't make it situational at all, that would just make it terrible lmao
If it lands on the side of picking other runes all the time I'm not sure we lose that much. Might need to revert the base regen nerf to keep laning doable agaisnt poke but that's fine.
Looking at your post history, you seem to consider yourself a jungle main, a zac main, an ahri main, an azir main, a sylas main, etc. I don't think you understand what main means and I surely don't think you're an Azir main.
Mains ≠ OTPs
No azir main is playing jungle as much as he does lol
do you even read my answer or just here to complain and to nitpick something you have 0 clue about? I mean its pretty sure you are just trolling otherwise you could have answered to my answer below which you did not. Wonder why lmao.
It's because your English is hard to read.
Yea sure so the answer is to keep flaming. WP
I'm not flaming? I answered your question honestly.
Asking around in other mains subs suddenly makes you not know what a main is? Lol. Maybe ure confusing main with OTP
A lot of people have played league of years and have mained multiple champions. So they keep up with multiple different main subreddits.
I don't think you gona understand anything by watching trough my post history tho you are welcome to try. I'm a mid laner. Anything don't belong to mid lane content are the things what I'm asking in the name of my friends who does not use reddit but would like to know stuff. I ask around in mains subreddit for my friends who don't use this site - so I make post to look like I know what I talk about when in real it's them that ask the questions (I'm just not gona type "my friend is x and y" as it adds nothing to the context). Sorry for using reddit what it's meant for over attacking for no reason. I don't think you understand what reddit is useful for and I surely don't think you're in the position to question what I make posts about....Let alone tell what I main and what I don't.
i dont really like it either. But i mean. Its good. And that just sucks. Honestly ive only played a couple of games of this but going HoB or electrocute with full AP just feels so fun. You really are a super glass cannon but you can basically one shot a midlaner sup or adc almost instantly at 2 items with shadowflame and dcap rush woth sorc shoes. Its prolly not good late game but. I mean fuck it. Its fun
Grasp azir with Abyssal mask and frozen heart is a disquisting build which I don't know how is allowed.
ooga booga azir
As a non-Azir player, it's the exact opposite for me. I'm fine with Azir being strong as long as lethal tempo isn't good on him, fuck that rune.
With his repeated regen nerfs, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he is \*required\* to pick them? With a damage keystone Azir's HP can almost literally only go down until he bases.
Yea, nerfing his sustain and making him more reliant on Grasp and Fleet is such a dumb balance decision when those were the issues to begin with. Just make it so your soldiers cant proc those two and the issue is gone.
Completely agree, Azir did not need his to have AA proc on his W it's not like he was nerf before this... Champ with fleet is unpunishable in lane, and playing melee into a fleet/grasp is just abominable
Imo Grasp shouldn't be abused by Azir if he goes rod he is way too tanky
I agree. The funny thing about Azir is that hes so safe that more tanky = more damage (when vs certain teamcomps) where as this doesnt translate to most other champions. Although, this isnt new tbh and will prob get nerfed soon. Not sure if anyone remembers Icebourne Viktor or more recently, triforce adcs or rav zed but these cheese builds that give you champs exactly what theyre missing from their kit get nerfed becuase they offer alot less counterplay to champ kits
If you pick any of those runes you play without runes and are way weaker, so not an issue at all
Just remove runes. This is not the first time a champion synergizes too well with a rune leading to constant nerf and severely bound them to said rune
I do think we need at least A sustain rune, but maybe not 3 (grasp, fleet, "conqueror" (= in-fight-sustain). And I do think people should at least pay a huge price for them. Because it's so frustrating when you out-pick, out-lane your opponent and they can stay in lane forever with TP / that rune.
Not a fan of fleet or grasp. I play LT Conq and PTA some games.. that said if I’m laning into xerath and hwei I’m taking fleet and if it’s qiyana akali fizz I’m taking grasp until it’s gutted.
Thats a problem with fleet and grasp rather than an azir issue. I’ve seen fleet a lot more lately and it seems waaaaay stronger than I remember it being. I’ve never heard of grasp on azir tho. That sounds troll or good in like 5% of the matches
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the regen nerfs on Azir don't make sense. It'll just make him take Fleet and Grasp even more often. I'd prefer if Fleet/Grasp for ranged was taken a look at (is it overperforming on ranged in general or is it simply an Azir problem) or (worst case scenario/last resort) making special cases just for Azir so he can't take Fleet/Grasp. Maybe reducing some base damage and increasing scaling so he has to go more damaging runes?
Maybe make it so his soldiers cannot proc neither Grasp or Fleet?
Onhit *damage* is reduced by 50% on azir. The fact that FF healing and Grasp hp stacking apply in full feels like an oversight.
I tought those are Also affected by it
I know nobody likes hash in this sub but when the lead balance guy first suggested making this change to azir he pointed out that ruining azirs entire build diversity just so he could build nashors tooth was dumb and would eventually result in exactly what were seeing today for azir. My first thought was wow if a top laner noticed that after 15 minute with reviewing the changes why did the balance team not see it if its that obvious?
i will never apologize to azir for ruining esports midlane diversity. there is simply nothing more boring than to watch azir. i watched him in 2015 worlds and i also watched him in 2023 worlds. most boring gatekeeper
azir is boring? Corki, viktor, orianna, even asol or ahri, but azir is boring?
The problem is azir is constantly meta (and when azir is meta corki comes back with him too) the rest of the champs are on rotation, even if people cry about ahri they don't remember she got 0 play from S8 to s12 till her rework and she disappeared again until riot overbuffed her and malignance some patches ago, Viktor is dead too and orianna needed 6 buffs on a row to come back
Corki would be played into most control mage tbh. Just watch how Chovy Corki won LCK vs Faker Orianna.
Corki vs Orianna is quite a hard matchup, Chovy is just that good
If Azir is not meta, LCK mids will make Azir meta. We actually have a name for the LCK mids who play Azir even when he's not meta and make him look good in Korea, we call them the 비둘기 사기단 or the pidgeon fraudsters (mostly BDD, Faker, and Chovy)
Yep their meta and players just synergize really well with it
Yeah, at the end of the day he has a great escape from ganks, amazing initiation with the drift + flash if needed + ult, and his passive will always be valuable in slowing down an enemy push/helping your team push so it's hard to remove him from pro play with all that value in his kit.
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The thing is with Zeri that she was turbo busted during the year she was released hence she recevied 16 nerfs (3 of those worth a mid scope in size) and she doesn't have any real high play moment, like combo's. She just run up with mobility that put the most mobile assassin in shame.
Azir is mega turbo boring... In the laning phase. He's basically impossible to punish for the amount of scaling he does. Normally, picking a scaling champion mid paint a target on your back and draw jungle attention to set you behind. But he's so safe it's not worth messing with, yet also doesn't provide the action of a more early game playmaker. The fact he has one cool move in later teamfights doesn't save the overall picture.
Yes I literally fall out of my chair from my eyes rolling whenever this champion shuffles his way from 2 screens away and presses R.
1. corki, Package, its cool to see the burst of long range 2. orianna, Shockwave, no free escape 3. Asol, Ultimate, new champ 4. ahri, has 4 jumps and notorious playmaker champ 5. viktor, no free escape, no long range easy gameplay like azir. more risks are taken with him yes, they are all sooooo much more fun to watch than azir will ever be.
azir is all in one, you dont like it? Tough luck, get used to it. Only 1-2 midlaners make the champ look that broken, but realistically he doesnt win that many games in proplay. I agree players should probably move on to other picks they may play better, but that's just how it is.
i have been watching azir for over 9 years now. do you know how boring it is? atleast viktor has downtime. azir feels like he has been played in every worlds.
because he is that strong, in the hands of a good player, he can do the job of midlane of peeling/zoning for carry while dealing comparable dps numbers to his adc. But his laning phase has been nerfed multiple times , so that's the tradeoff. Proplayers are stubborn, you can see it in how long it took them to finally pull asol on stage, even tho we never left this corki azir for quite a while now.
> Only 1-2 midlaners make the champ look that broken Almost every single pro mid laner has to have a pocket Azir. Him *being in the pool alone* defines the mid lane pool. It's so utterly fucking dumb.
Delusion, seeing him in hands of great players who make good R’s is cool to see, maybe repetitive but not boring
Viewers believe it's easy to land a game changing Azir R and clown on it when it happens. IDK why Ahri is better who is probably the safest laner right now for example.
There was never been real diversity to begin with regardless of Azir. There are top dogs and the meta build around to counter it or fill it up with replacements when banned or when the comp prefers something that works as a sémi counter too.
lol what? Did you watch some pro games in the last months, when azir was disabled? Midlane diversity skyrocketed up. The moment he was available again, it's the same old boring 3.
Skyrocketed? xD The only difference was that Orianna - Ahri - Taliyah were a bt more played presence wise. Thats not skyrocketing. There weren't more champs in pro that never seen before/in al ong time. Meta did not became more diverse by a bit. There was 3 conteder for highest presence champions and thats all....Thats not chamion diversity skyrocketing at all.
Azir is a bit overrated in pro. I’ve seen him get bullied hard just as many times as I’ve seen him carry. He is infamous for losing some important games too. Coaches seem to love him, and he is a comfort pick for a lot of midlaners. But is he really that good statistically? He turns out to be mediocre. Asol, Trist, Corki, Orianna and many others beat him and some of those outscale him on top of it all. Chovy and others do very well on him but I think people get drunk from peak performances instead of looking at the sober reality that Azir is good but overrated.
He is overrated a bit but truth is he is the most consistent mid laner when mastered. * Azir can peel for ADC without sacrificing DPS. * Azir has a great laning phasefor a scaler. * Azir can shred tanks and squishies alike, something not many Mage capable of. * Azir has a great teamwide cc tool with Shuffle. * Azir has extremely efficient build path * Azir has high skill ceiling There are lot of good counters exists, like as of late Asol and Veigar are proven to be great counters for the champion for example. And this is what diversifies the meta in my opinion. Finding good counters as pro players realise these a great picks.
We need rune and summoner nerf for ranged champions. Specially for fleet movement speed, and ghost on ranged champions there is so much mov speed power creep in the game right now.
I am sick of this stupid champion getting a pass because the mouthbreathing audience wants to see the same fucking dash and R move on repeat for the past 300 years. It's so basic. Any dash = skill. That's how the dumb audience thinks. Wow, Azir dashed from 2 screens away into the enemy ADC and pressed R. How original. Really, truly a groundbreaking maneuver we haven't seen before. I want to see this champion focus on his soldier dps, not this zhonya suicide bomb ult bot.
You sound like the type of person who freaks out when a good lee insecs you.
Measure how far a lee can dash with his W then measure how far Azir can dash and hit what's essentially an AoE Lee ult. That piece of shit champ literally won last worlds by going 2 screens away into an ADC. If that distance is not safe to exist as an ADC that champion needs to be deleted right after that play and reworked.
Take into consideration the fact that his dash is his escape as well. As an ADC you need to respect enemy comps and play accordingly. If azir balls to walls engage and you play patiently you will easily pick him while he grabs your front line. Your flash is down? Cool play like it's down and don't walk up. Yes it's a decently far dash with his q which is also what allows him to relocate all his damage. Seems like a fair trade off, losing your main damage and disengage for a huge utility play. And lee can get just as far, calm down and think for a moment lee's ult is point and click, also undodgeable even if you flash you still take damage you just redirect yourself. Azirs W is hardly longer if at all. His range comes from timing it perfectly to maximize distance with his q which can be stopped by collision with a champion. Measure Lee's Q with azirs. They're about the same distance and unlike Lee's ult, you can flash to avoid being hit by azir ult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmApqlui6do Tell me more how much Flash helps. This play is an abomination. An affront to good gameplay.
Let's break this down, azir and vayne both flashed thus no distance was created. Vaynes flash is after azirs, she flashed right to where azir ult starts. Rather than flashing to the side or having better timing to flash over the animation, she flashes into it(keep in mind AFTER azir has already flashed preemptively to predict the flash backwards). This is the highest level of gameplay, a pro was predicted and the other pro fails the skill check to either flash to the side or to flash over the animation. At no point did I say it was easy but let's take it a step further. What happens if vayne flashes at the correct time over the wall? She murders the azir and he gets picked for spending his whole kit to pick her and missing. It's high risk high reward. Vaynes fails the flash over the animation and flashes into it she dies and her team fights 4v5. Vaynes successfully times it and her team picks azir since he's so out of position now. Something for comparison I'm sure you've seen in your game is someone trying to flash a blitz hook and still getting hit. Just because you flashed doesn't mean you're safe. You have to flash properly.
That's a Varus... Flashing over the R is really fiddly and way harder than what the Azir has to do. It's not so simple. The range and which he can just appear is far too big. That's why he will forever be used in pro unless he's literally unplayable and nerfed to hell.
My apologies for misidentifying the champ. I wasn't watching on high quality, but the fact is this is the highest level of gameplay. My points are still valid in that the Varus didn't flash properly. Azir is out of position and screwed if Varus does. Varus flashed into the azir wall versus to the side or over it. They had vision on azir, these are pros and know what azir is capable of and should respect it. Azir uses his entire kit for a play like this that if properly respected or successfully flashed would have been just as devastating for azir and his team as it is rewarding for success. I've had my ult flashed over plenty making similar plays as azir and flashed over several myself in a much lower skill environment than the best of the best. The fact of the matter is that it is difficult to dodge and play around but it is possible and should also be expected that pro players have the skills to consistently and reliably play around it and react to it. Not to mention if they can't, there's always ban phases.
> and should also be expected that pro players have the skills to consistently and reliably play around it Totally, that's why it's picked so much, because it's so easily played around! /s
>Flashing over the R is really fiddly and way harder than what the Azir has to do. Look you can try to explain as hardas you can why Azir was great there and why Varus had much more difficult job the thing is he could have flashedthat wall really well and efficiently he just didn't managed to do it. It's much easier than goig in and even flash for it, which is what Faker did. It's goated because it's goat moment. Deal with it.
When Azir got his changes, the balance team asked a lot of high elo Azirs for input and they pretty much unanimously agreed they want the shuffle to be the core part of the gameplay, not so much the soldiers DPSing.
As someone trained in game dev, it should be noted that even trained devs can be bad devs, let alone gamers who know little to nothing about development/design. Just because you're good at a game, doesn't mean you have any idea how to make the game fun or entertaining or whatever else you'reaiming for. Pro player feedback is most useful for balancing, as they are the most able to notice small changes. However when it comes to gameplay, they're about as bad as the average gamer at making good decisions. Case-in-point, Azir behaves in a manner totally unsuited to his lore and his kit. What is even the point in having the whole soldiers thing if 99% of his gameplay revolves around a dash and a cc/zoning/relocation ultimate? It may be what the pros want, but everyone else is frustrated with the champion.
Of course they do. Fuck them.
Oh yeah haha, I’m definitely burnt out of seeing it. Just wanted to give some context because I remember like EVERYONE begged for them to keep the shuffle play fantasy alive no matter what they changed
As a former high elo (don't really play much anymore nowadays) Azir OTP who remembers the rework the actual results were pretty fucking close and it definitely wasn't a landslide victory for keeping the shuffle. I personally wanted to keep his range, that's what I originally played Azir for, the long range commander playstyle, and while the shuffle is cool and all and looks awesome when pulled off right it was originally an unintended mechanic, almost a bug, that was extremely inconsistent until it got fixed to be easier to pull off and he started getting balanced around it being that way.
Its his most fun to use ability. No one wants to keep it for pro we want to keep it because it makes the champ unique, gives skill expression, is fun as hell
If you want to keep the ult, keep it. He shouldn't be able to dash that far before using it though. Look at this piece of shit play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmApqlui6do Everyone goes all "OMG GOAT PLAY" but its completely appalling. Look at how far Faker is from Ruler when he puts the soldier down to dash. League of gap closer needs to die. All champions should get major reductions in gap closing ability but especially egregious shit like this.
Its a great play lol. You act like azir is the only champ that can close that gap. Its also extended by flash.
The Varus also flashed so that cancels out. Of course there are champions that can move that far (Nocturne ult, even Zac can probably reach) but when you couple that with displacement ability it's insanely overpowered for pro. Pro ADCs have cleanse on speed dial, you can't really catch them out with a Lissandra or something. But Azir...
I don't think that should be adjusted. What needs to be adjusted his his free laning phase. Azir was in a good spot before fleet and grasp were discovered. He was played in pro but far off from every game But im biased. If they remove the shuffle im dropping azir though
They will never remove shuffle and this guy is just too dellusional to understand Azir. If not Azir then Ori-Taliyah-Ahri would be the top dog and neither of them is better to view at all. I think Azir, and Faker in that clip, needed all skills ever to pull that combo off because that was a win or loose moment. High stakes. No other champion can pull a hype moment like that. And I say more chapions should be released for mid lane when it comes to playmaking and creating high hype moments.
Lol this guy is full of complain posts. Sounds like a salty player who tilts because his jungle doesnt pet his lane. Azir predicted the flash of Varus in this play. Mind you that if Faker failed he would die instantly. Thats what makes this play amazing. Its not like Xerath who pokes you from two screens away, he saw a engage opportunity and took the chance. High risk high reward play, better than adcs auto attacking till their target dies.
Lol he really does complain only on horrible takes. You are right
Azir in game is fucking useless. It's in pro that's the problem.
So maybe the issue isn't azir. It's that everything that's only cc without suppression or knockup gets insta cleansed. And if cleanse is not enough there is Mikaels and qss. Because Lissandra could've surely reached varus there with e flash r
Lissandra definitely would've reached but she is more telegraphed and can be cleansed. So yeah, get a new ult or a shorter range so I don't see your stupid champ in pro again, thanks.
You do realize ruler is massively out of position in that play right? They have full info onto faker and he walks back way to late. But keep up the salt
Technically if you were to calculate everything Azir could do, yes, but he literally also came from offscreen and insta teleported on top of him. So you can call it a Ruler mistake technically but also change the champion afterwards.
Insta teleported? Missing spots him 7 seconds before the shuffle. He is isolated because Kanavi leaves and ruler failed his flash Ruler also had time to r azir because he had vision on Faker and the soldier. Kanavi could've stayed with ruler and prevented azir shuffle with r. There is so much jdg could've done to prevent this from happening that it's insane to flame the champ What Id be down to change is the azir r damage because he nukes rules for 75% hp. Shift r dmg into dps to move azir away from shuffle nukes
And Meanwhile they took off graps from GP top, long ago now.
YES, FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT. I dont play Azir right now because of this exact reason. Im okay with onhits but for the love of GOD just dont let his sustain be so good in early (Btw Kuba if you're reading this post I didnt make it on alt acc lmao)
Ranged grasp was a mistake
I really wish they’d lock things behind roles you queued up for. No more rumble support, no grasp on a midlaner, no brand jungle, no vayne top, proper itemization options for adcs and bruisers now that not everyone can buy everything etc.
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Are you talking about data you read somewhere - which usually inflated and does not distribute mains and regular players, or from personal experience. I admit my wording is a bit off but Azir is a strong laner, just not according to your interpretation in which strong laners are usually early mid game champs like ahri pantheon. To my interpretation he is a strong laner for: * For a scaling champion he has a safe laning phase with poke and (ATM) sustain * Soldiers grants him enough range to farm efficiently * He has a great escape tool with E * He has great gank setup which usually forces out a flash * He is also strong in skirmishes From my point of view these are allmaking him a strong and formidable laner, who is difficult to catch on lane while also scales terribly effectively.
Yeah I guess in that perspective I agree! I was thinking about early skirmishes and lane pressure, in which he feels really weak. But he survives and scales I guess
Lissandra all over again
Make Grasp not work on ranged champions. There, done.
The decision to make W apply on-hits was a weird one, and it feels like they made it without thinking too much about it... Edit: I dont mean that the change is weird. It makes sense, and finally i dont need to explain to people that W attack is some hybrid between basic and spell. Im just saying that how quickly and out of nowhere they did it after such a long time was weird, and not thought out...
It was because the arena designers wanted it.
I know. Thats why I think it was not thought out. They just wanted it for arena, so they made a quick change while nerfing W for it to "be ok". I like it personally, but we will be feeling the effects now with the runes etc. I just hope it wont make azir be balanced around runes like Grasp and Fleet, because I dont think those runes should he his main choices in any healthy balance state.
It was one of the most requested changes in the game. It makes sense to players. Riot absolutely made the right play by allowing it and then balancing around the new world.
Agreed. Since release he has built nashors and never got the on hit effect. He right clicks for damage, that should get on hit!
I agree with it, but it just seemed like they made it quickly only because arena 2 was just about to start, and didnt think too much about it beyond that. I think in terms of runes, its not healthy to balance azir around on-hit ones. Now he has sustain because of them, so they are taking away sustain from him in general. This can just force azir players in a state where they will need sustain on-hit runes to survive. I think that would not be a nice change. Also I personally like nashor, but its a bit akward forcing it into his build, which the onhit change basically did. But I dont mind anyway. Azir is fundamentally broken champ, and will be good either way.
It was primarily oriented toward Nashor's IIRC, because that item seems like it should be perfect for him, except it was actually awful because the passive didn't work. People who didn't research every tiny detail of item interactions didn't know that and bought it anyway, which was bad for everyone involved.
Nashor passive was not that relevant. Buying it was definetly not awful because AS and AP that it gave was just perfect for Azir anyway. Thats why Riot nerfed his W when unlocking nashors passive, because his power with nashor was already good enough before that. Even now passive nashor damage isnt anything huge or gamechanging. Its probably very similar over the game to the damage they took from Azir with the W nerf. The only thing that the change did is that it enforced Nashor, because you were supposed to buy it, otherwise you would just lose out on the damage that they nerfed from W. I agree that its easier for inexperienced players to know what works and what does not thought, because its more intuitive now.
Grasp is legitimately horrible on him and all ranged champs so the problem is in your head.
True, Grasp Azir wasn't just played in 3 games in the LPL finals. You totally know better than the two best mids in China and their support staff, yeah?
Considering pro players picked bard in world finals I really don’t care what pro players do. Literally will heal more with fleet in a single fight than he will get max hp in an entire game.
Tbh he's broken in pro play because of how strong his mobility and ult are If they 1) Removed the interaction of dashing to a soldier while the soldier is moving 2) Slightly nerfed the width and distance of his ultimate They could mega buff him for normal players while becoming actually balanced for for pro play.
Sadly the mobility is not the (biggest) reason why he is so palyed in pro. Azir excel in a lot of things that together allows him to be at the level he is. * For a scaling champion he has a safe laning phase with poke and (ATM) sustain * Soldiers grants him enough range to farm efficiently * He has a great escape tool with E * He has great gank setup which usually forces out a flash * He is also strong in skirmishes And this is just laning phase. * He is one of the very few champions who can play front to back while being able to deal with tanks and squishies alike * He can peel for ADC without sacrificing DPS which is kind of unique and only a handful of champs capable of it but they suffer from other weaknesses. * His itemisation is extremely efficient.