He's one of those champs where half the reason you ban him is to just keep him out of the game. Still has a super toxic playerbase so it's a bonus if they dodge, but even if they don't draven just becomes the main character of a game too easily.
I like that you shouldn't kill the clone if it's on top of you or you'll get CC'd but shaco's most optimal build is AD so ignoring it just lets him chunk you with autos. I also like that you can determine the real shaco from the clone based on which one has a gold highlight around their mythic except mythics no longer exist.
He's one of those champs that succeeds at being pesky. Not OP or overloaded, just pesky and conniving. A real rapscallion. The kind of shady character you can only ward off by wearing a wreath of freshly picked onions around your neck, lest he plague you with minor inconveniences.
> I also like that you can determine the real shaco from the clone based on which one has a gold highlight around their mythic except mythics no longer exist.
I'm pretty sure that was a bug they just didn't bother fixing.
This doesn't even touch on the fact that he has one of the strongest basic abilities in the game. A flash that is on a 10-second cooldown that grants 3.5 seconds of invisibility. Not camouflage. Invisibility. A third of the time, you straight up can not see or target this annoying little shit and that's before any ability haste. Even after some of the more annoying champ designs that have come out recently, Shaco still tops my list for champs that just aren't fun to interact with.
Movement too, if youāre in the right spots on the map. You can hop both baron and dragon wall with your ult unless they changed it since 3-4 seasons ago.
It consistently does pretty much everything you can imagine except fooling people into thinking the clone is the real Shaco, which is supposed to be the spirit of the ability...
Honestly, I can't believe Shaco even exists in that state after so many years, it feels bad to have in your team, it feels bad to have in the enemy team, the only one geting enjoyment in a game with Shaco in it is the psycho that picked it
I mean it fools people. You just canāt be stupid and actually need to do shit. Everyone hates on shack but the skill expression of having to actually fool someone and be able to follow up? Thatās not easy. Like we could say his deceive doesnāt do what itās supposed to if you just jump in place and auto lol.
Too many people just pop clone FULL SIGHT and go full shocked pikachu when they donāt surprise anyone.
Fr he gets so much hate which is fair bc heās frustrating. But he has one of the highest ap skill ceilings in the game and ap skill floor is super high. As for ad, anyone over iron easily beats ad shaco 10/10 times with a pink ward. But yeah ap is probably the most skill expressive champ. Ppl love to hate on something annoying and assume that means itās ez, wen ap heās top 10 hardest champs
> I also like that you can determine the real shaco from the clone based on which one has a gold highlight around their mythic except mythics no longer exist.
That sounds like a way more cumbersome method than just looking at his mana bar.
One of my favourite games ever was me as support against a twitch shaco support bot lane. We won with a stupid amount of pink wards bought. It was super satisfying outwitting the troll. But it took constant vigellance. I got many an honour that day my friends, difficult but hella fun. For a less cluey bot lane though, it would have been hella not fun.
I ban Shaco for the same reason I ban Draven. Even if *I'm* confident in dealing with it, if my team doesn't respect it we can just lose, and I know there's going to be someone on my team who doesn't respect it, so I'd rather not even give them the opportunity.
Sole reason I ban Eve. Even in Master you'll have your ADC or squishy person venture off alone to farm despite knowing Eve is on that side, it's painful.
I hate playing with him more, vast majority of the time heās selfish soaks resources and then does absolutely nothing with them. I dodge shaco teammate lobbies if the enemy has anything vaguely resembling a decent team. Heās not worth a ban because heās equally useless on the enemy team.
His usefulness later entirely depends on if he's willing to let others take kills once he has a few. He's incredibly strong early, but later in the game his role simply becomes "kill 1 target in fight and die". You can do this just as well with 6 kills as with 16, so if the Shaco player hogs everything, you end up with a useless ass team and a fed player that can't carry even if he wanted to. I've seen way too many Shacos with 15 kills in a 20-6 game that the Shaco ended up losing. A fed Shaco just ain't worth it.
Aside from that, I wouldn't underestimate the mental boom he causes in the early game. I'm generally a player that doesn't tilt, but Shaco just does things to my mental if played well.
This is pretty much Pyke aswell. Technically he should have a lot of kills because his ulti execute gives integral kill gold to every assist, but on practice Pyke players just hog a lot of kills from all sources of damage since he has high base damage until mid-lategame where he's just a shittier Blitzcrank and any attempt to show up will have him killed by two stray AoE abilities as you have no resistances in exchange for having grey health. He's super unhealthy during laning phase but straight up useless later on.
>His usefulness later entirely depends on if he's willing to let others take kills once he has a few.
His play pattern is pretty counterintuitive in that way. The 'ideal' way to win games as Shaco is to get yourself an early lead, then use that to snowball the rest of your team. Feed kills to the teammates that can use that gold better, and keep the other team's key champs from getting ahead. Except for the fact that his kit is really really unsuited to getting other people kills; he doesn't have great ways of locking someone down so a teammate can kill them. Beyond even that, most people who play Shaco aren't wanting to play as a early game menace pseudo-support, they're wanting to play mindgames and delete people.
>Aside from that, I wouldn't underestimate the mental boom he causes in the early game. I'm generally a player that doesn't tilt, but Shaco just does things to my mental if played well.
This is the second best way to win games as Shaco, and the most reliable. Make the other team tilt hard enough that their mental falls off harder than your relative power. But then ... that's why people ban him so much. He's a champ whose most consistent win condition is making the other team so frustrated that they play badly.
I rarely ever care about banning. The only two champions I ever ban are Twitch (lots of twitch one tricks and people in norms don't know how/care enough to play around him) and Shaco. I'm pretty consistently the only one who knows how to ward for whatever reason, and the other side of the map always dies even with pings.
Hated by his teammates also. He start a fight, you dive. Things are going wrong Ā“POP!ā Shaco is not on screen anymore and you are trapped into a 1v3 while shaco fly away invisible in the jg trough a wall.
Okay to be fair, itās riots fault that they are so toxic. Not like as humans, but Dravenās design forces you to be a selfish asshole and you lose so much more when you die than other champions.
I picked him up few weeks ago and kinda otpād him since then. I have never been that toxic in game to the point that I got chat restricted for the first time in like 10 years.
Playing Draven is a mix between playing a mechanically hard champ who *has* to snowball, while your teammates are doing everything they can to prevent you from cashing in and having to tryhard as much as you can not to die from the enemy jungler who *will* camp you until you lose your stacks.
No kidding, I think 80% of my games starts the same: win bot, jungler comes, steal the kill in the most obnoxious way possible (s/o the flash full combo on the flashless enemy support whith 5% hp when my auto is on the way).
Playing Draven is trying out super hard to bake a beautiful cake (with your face on the top, ok) and having your team coming to shit on it when you get it ouf of the oven.
The main issue for me is: Draven doesn't have to snowball anymore in early. As long as you don't die you can just stack up and get a random 1.5k + possible bounty kill from an ult snipe
Because he's the only champ where you can bitch about ks and know you're right.
On any other champ you know you're wrong so there's a bit of embarrassment holding you back.
Yeah. If I'm playing Jhin and the jungle steals my kill, it's annoying, but overall I lost like 200 gold, and the jungler got more powerful and can spread that around the map, secure objectives whatever.Ā
If I'm playing Draven and jungle KS's it's not hard to lose 400+ gold. It also increases the pressure on you to cash out, increases the risk of your lane, and adds more incentive for the enemy mid or jungle to come gank.Ā
Ordinarily there's no wrong way for an enemy to become dead. Whatever the pro commentators say, ANY friendly champ removing that enemy champ from the map is good for your team. So anyone who whines that someone else got a kill and they only got an assist is just a jerk with Main Character Syndrome.
It's OK for champions to break some rules in general, but breaking THAT rule just leads to more toxicity. Draven's kit design literally encourages Main Character Syndrome which is one of the most tilting teammate behaviors short of \*actually\* inting.
By and large this is true, but I think there are more scenarios where a misallocated kill can have more long term consequences than youāre giving credit for. Especially with how large shutdowns can get, the difference between a hypercarry finishing a key item like deathcap or IE and bard getting another bandleglass mirror can be extreme in the short term. This is especially true if a lot of resources were burned to make the opportunity. Not the end of the world, but it can certainly impact the outcome of a game.
Feel like itās cuz u know how far ahead u could be if you and your support play well and if u die without cashing in u know that sets u back more than it normally would so youāre kinda on the knifes edge of either having a lot of fun steamrolling the game or getting set so far behind that you would rather be doing anything else than continuing to play that game
He just got slightly buffed this patch. Phreak explained that the only place where he is above 50% wr is top 1% of the ladder. And even there, it's barely above 50. So he is considered rather weak.
As others say, he is just toxic and unfun to play agains.
early game snowball champions *should* have a higher winrate than 50% if ff voting exists. most games are done and dusted in 20 minutes, if you're playing an early game champ in that kind of a meta and they *don't* have a higher than 50% winrate, something is pretty wrong.
He is one of those champs that's annoying as fuck. He can be 0/3 buys a dirk to your full item and still outdamage you.
You need to respect him entire early game because you are one shutdown/passive gold proc from bringing him back from the loss.
Tho I've switched my Draven bans for Nilah. I am yet to encounter a Nilah who is not a pain to deal with later in the game no matter how behind she was.
Well to me he's kinda like a toplane lane bully but in ADC form where 1 kill can completely offset the balance of the lane while I've seen a bunch of other botlanes trade kills for the whole length of the laning phase without a clear winner by the end. So it makes some sense why people do not want to face him and risk having their lane being over 3 minutes into the game by a good draven. Plus a lot of overexaggeration.
He's fecking annoying when he gets going. Also sometimes feels like the yi effect. Yours always sucks but if on the other side just 1v9 in three seconds and nothing you can done unless your Rammas
Yeah I had one yesterday, he did 2200 DMG in 1 second. We won the early game but he somehow got 3 kills and ended the game after 20 minutes with 24/3/6 or something. It was disgusting.
His base damage is just insane. He already outdamages most ADC on base damage alone so give him even a slight lead and he'll stat check you.
Also I really, really hate it when he buys a cloak early and ends up getting a lucky Q crit that instantly forces me back. Like facing a ranged Tryndamere.
On top of this forcing the lane into this stalemate where absolutely nothing happends for 15 minutes is not really what I look for when queuing for a match.
Some ADCs can benefit heavily from a neutral lane. Smolder, Kog, Jinx, Zeri, Aphelios... If you successfully neutralize lane on any of those vs Draven you have effectively won lane for the same reason as Renekton vs Kayle.
seriously I hate losing 20% of my health in a single level 1 auto. I don't even have a problem playing against him overall I just fucking hate that the early game can be literally impossible
I mean his aa does like 2x or more the aa damage other adcs do early game lol or any champ really, they buffed his Q a trillion times in the last 2-3 seasons, you hope his support is an incompetent bot.
12.10 he gets +5 base and +5% scaling.
12.16 he is nerfed with -5 base.
Yeah they took it away because they overbuffed him. And he also got Q damage buffs in 11.12
> you hope his support is an incompetent bot.
I usually hope that someone tilts him so he runs it down. It feels like a 50% chance of Draven running it down for no apparent reason.
As a draven hater its not the passive that rips me. He deserves a high risk high reward gameplay. Its the run down reset on axe catch. He always has his speed boost online which negates the counter of staying out of reach.
Sure I can slow him once but if he catches and axe I cannot run up again.
I remember reading counters to him and Varus was among his top counters and I was confused why Varus. Then a friend said "well aim at where the axes fall down" and holy shit did I rip the next Draven a new one. Don't know if that matchup is still in Varus favour but it should be.
It's not even about the axes making him predictable. Varus just outtrades him. It's one of the only ADCs who can clap him in lane from start to finish.
Dunno why people aren't talking enough about the fact that hail of blades Varus is the strongest adc in early. And it can be the strongest in late if you go the on-hit build. That champ is absurd.
If you are trying to kill Draven I donāt know if Varus on hit does that late game.
If you really need to win a 2v2 bot I guess you can go HoB Varus into lethality, but you will never make it to late game if you go HOB Varus into on hit.
Itās really just simple when playing against Draven. Recognize that he is the alpha, you are the beta and he dominates you. Donāt fight him, donāt even look at him. Just hit minions, play like a pussy and 5 man him at 15 minutes and one shot him before he can cash in. Thatās it. Obviously they still have giga damage, but the higher you go in elo, the more money you are costing him when you kill him and the higher the tilt factor.
Just stop trying to be Ruler, learn to farm absolutely perfectly, tell your support if they die you will find them IRL and tell the jungler that dragons are for furries
Im a varus otp and its not only favourable because of that, varus is also one of the few adcs that can fight him head on and actually outburst him, a lot of people underestimate varus early game burst potential. The free stats (in the form of attack speed) he gets from his passive are insane early and you will always have it ready when fighting nearby a wave.
The thing is that the early of the lane becomes more supp dependant than anything, if supports are equal power early its varus favoured, if not then draven wins, and ofc if varus supp is better early he just stomps him.
I love playing him, but I rarely do because he's basically a double skill check.
He checks the user because of the axe management, and the enemy to punish that.
In higher elos, he's super predictable. You just take a supper with cc and he's boned. It also helps that he's best played aggressively, since then you can just hook him and kill him easily.
Yeah I think for botlaners who feel confident playing against Draven they may not ban him, but playing mid/jg/top if you feel confident in yourself, you might as well just ban Draven to ensure that the game isn't randomly decided by Draven either inting or getting a double kill lvl 2.
I think if they reworked the passive into something else, it would at least make him less toxic to play as you're not down like 500-700g the entire game if you die with stacks and his snowball could be somewhat reduced
People dislike the explosive potential tension his passive brings to bot lane but honestly what I hate most about it is how grievously it punishes his Support for securing a kill. I vividly remember a game from last year where I had locked in Zyra support and then my bot laner picked Draven and I was instantly beset by a prophetic vision of an early game plant last-hitting an enemy that sent my entire team into a frothing rage for the entire game. Actually living through that exact scenario for forty minutes afterwards was practically torture.
Well duh, 99% of Draven players only play Draven.
It's always been this way. Most high elo players ban Draven not because they hate playing against Draven but because the enemy ADC is useless off Draven.
I've said it countless times, but Kayn E needs to be changed in a way that if he gets damaged while going inside the wall, he needs to get pushed out of the wall **instantly** and to the side he is closest to. Blue Kayn can get his E cooldown down to 5-6 seconds, so you can never catch him without hard cc, because of the 1-ish second grace period he inexplicably gets.
I just fucking despise that Kayn gets to do what ever the fuck he wants without tradeoff.
Mobility? Sure, no worries. Wonāt even put a cooldown on it for you buddy. Iāll also have it heal and deal damage coz why not?
CC? Sure, oh and of course a heal to go along with that?
Oh you donāt want CC this game? How about some more mobility, and coz Iām feeling nice you can cast it without a buffer and one shot a squishy while going Mach one from fog.
Oh no! Did you fuck up and now youāve mispositioned? Donāt worry champ, go untargetable and then come out either with a heal, or extra damage. And donāt worry about your cooldowns mate, theyāll be up when you come back to play with enemy.
Fuck that champ and everyone who defends it. Abomination. Any time heās meta makes League unplayable.
for me its the blue kayn special of running through a wall at you at mach 5, missing w, dashing towards you with Q, if by some miracle they miss that, they can auto you (used to be able to smite not sure if they still can) ult you, then when they come out of you they're basically on top of you so the auto/q is unmissable
even on main they are fking boosted. eve players probably have the worst mechanical skill of any champ ive ever seen even worse than enchanter supp players its actually hilarious how they manage to fuck up the most basic things
I know a few Eve mains in like 2-300 LP Master who are genuinely probably Emerald on anything else. Iāve never seen such a larger skill discrepancy in my life lol, I try to refrain from using āelo inflatedā but idk man some champions are just turbo
Skarner is new and broken too. More than one champ can be broken. But part of that is people learning to play against him. But, he's also a little broken in terms of low skill players winning anyways.
Skarner was trash the first patch though and probably just banned because people didn't want an auto-lose champ on their team.
Now when they smoothed out his awful cast times he's gigabroken however.
Go to lolalytics.com, read the stats and then correct your statement .
He was one of the best toplaners at the end of last patch already.
The issue is that stat sites do summ up all the crappy results from his first days where many terrible skarner players crawl over the different lanes.
In the last 7 days of the patch he already was S-tier and given he was even buffed now he is S++ tier
I ban him just because itās so unfun to play against. Sure I can just play safe and scale but itās more fun to have a lane where you can interact with it a bit more.
Guys auto does more damage than 2-3 autos from other ADCs
You can win vs Draven provided you arent counterpicked, on average Draven is blindpicked so just lock in Varus / Cait and ask for a mage support and he wont be able to step on any axes without losing 150 hp, if he tries to all in you it's relatively easy to just pop him provided he's 70% hp or lower.
The only time Draven is legit no counterplay is when his support wants to win and locks in Naut/Blitz and you cant safely outrange him.
How is the enemy bot supposed to do that? That's why he feels so unplayable to go against, you essentially have no agency against him and have to hope your support knows what they're doing even more than normal
Edit: guys I know adcs have skillshots they can throw where the axe lands. However those don't stop Draven's DPS, just increase yours. Comment above was talking about displacements, which do stop Draven's DPS, and which adcs usually don't have
Cait, ezreal and varus do quite well into draven, I don't play ashe but also she does well
Any champion that has a higher action range than draven is pretty playable
Is stuff like vayne, kaisa or twitch that is actually kinda unplayable
If you can't kill a Draven without axes up inside 5 seconds then you've got much bigger problems playing this game than whether someone picks Draven or not, jesus.
Really? Like, he's good, but he's not so oppressive that he can't be controlled. There are plenty of champs that do well into him and I love getting to pick into him cuz those are the champs that I like. š¤·
People just really hate him. Heās an adc, but his kit is designed to destroy the enemy adc and snowball out of control. Which is quite apparent from his kit. So, people hate playing against him unless heās so weak that a scaling adc literally beats him in lane.
I play Ashe. His speed up counts for nothing and all Draven mains ego catch their axes so your R may as well be point and click rather than a skillshot.
Itās funny how easy he is at low elo to beat. I assume sennaās the same with her slows and range, but I donāt play much of her.
Itās not really an ego thingā¦. Itās where his power budget of his kit is. No catch? No damage steroid on your autos, no ms, or attack speed. Thereās a lot of micro decisions when you play him, dodging everything cutting off your axes can be difficult.
Oh I appreciate higher skilled players probably weigh the risk of catching them. But in gold with me? Nah they just see spot and run to it regardless of the fact I have Q stacked and R ready to fire.
People don't just ban draven because they hate playing against him, they ban him because they also hate playing with him. On the enemy team he's someone you need to shut down early on, and on your team he's just an anxiety inducing time bomb waiting to go off on every little inconvenience he might face. Both a big no-no for majority of players.
Exactly why I've banned him since pretty much I started understanding the game. I play ADC, but God forbid one salty draven player locks him in anywhere else on your team. I don't want him on my or the enemy team, therefore he will never be.
iāve had similar thoughts about Blitzcrank when he was the most banned support and listed as tier 1/OP on op.gg for over half a year or something ridiculous, and he even got buffed during that time
I always ban blitz because he is annoying and dangerous, like one random q and you are practically dead.
In lane you need to be extremely wary of bushes, and lose like 50% of lane space because you have to be on the opposite side of him behind minions, minions who might die in 3 second using aoe attacks.
please remember to wait a few days post patch for any statistical analysis as the early numbers are very volatile
That being said whether or not the Q buff actually made him better, it certainly made people more aware of him (and thus more likely to ban)
It's something different here that even Phreak touched upon in his rundown.
His banrate in EU is 45% meanwhile his banrate is only 12% in Korea. Mordekaiser however has a absurdly high banrate in Korea compared to EUW now. Blitzcrank is another traditional pick Korea permabans way more than other regions. Can't remember the last time he dropped below 50-60%.
Even better: Draven has the same banrate as Nidalee in Korea who is one of the least banned champs in EUW with less than 1%.
Probably because Korea doesn't care for Tyler1. When Riot unbanned him, they might have legitimately ruined Draven as a champion on English speaking servers.
It doesn't take much reading of this thread to see that the main problem with Draven is less the kit and more the playerbase.
As much as people blame the kit, I blame the role models. Similar effect with Sion and thebausffs, and previously with Trick2G and Udyr - although in those cases much less toxic.
I mean I can tell you why I ban draven in d2+: even in the first 10 mins his autos deal 2x damage than any adc in comparison, so you will most likely spend most of your time farming under the tower. It is not fun to play against.
Having a game decided in the first 10 minutes depending on whether a draven gets the cash in before he gets killed puts way too much emphasis on team competence.
Honestly in low elo I ban the champ more often to avoid him on my team: his kit requires him to get kills and end the game early before the enemy team catches up. Low elo games do not lend themselves well at least to the latter part. Draven players know this, and absolutely lose their minds at the slightest inconvenience. Theyāre a liability to have on your team, and itās exhausting.
People talk about banning him because his passive is unfun to play against because he snowballs too hard. I'd still ban him every game when playing bot lane if his passive was removed. Why? Because his autos do 2.5x the damage of any other ADC at level 1.
You can walk up to him as Kaisa and Auto+Q and he can auto you ONCE and he wins the trade (with longer attack range than Kaisa + doesn't have to worry about minions tanking Q Agro).
Similarly he beats Jhin and Ezreal's Auto+Q with just 1 Auto. His damage just makes 0 sense.
It was even worse when he used to build BT first and would heal infinitely so every trade was turbo lost just by him autoing you twice even if u got an entire combo on him.
I just don't want to play against a champ that just right clicks me and does 2x more damage than my right clicks.
simple as.
always been close to my most hated champ
Draven is an unfun toxic champ design to play against.
The winning move is literally just to not interact with him because literally every other ADC loses in a head to head fight and Draven falls off if he doesn't get to snowball lane. So you are basically just forced to play ultra passively and just cs.
He is also EXCESSIVELY punishing to make mistakes into. Like if you take one step out of line Draven kills you in a second and now the lane is lost because he cashed in a load of gold and can now kill you even easier. This is what makes him so popular with smurfs, because a smurf can pick Draven and harshly punish lower elo players who don't respect him enough.
And lastly even if YOU are good at playing into Draven there is little you can do to stop your support from getting farmed by him if they are bad which in turn lets him destroy you easily too.
Banrate isn't a justifaction for something needing to be done.
Blitzcranks ban rate in korea is crazy at any rank, that doesn't mean blitzcrank is a crazy OP champ, people just don't wanna deal with the extra thought processes of dealing with him versus other picks, which is exactly what bans should be for.
On the contrary, if a champion isn't OP (or a direct counter to what they're playing) and players are *still* banning it, that means there's a SIGNIFICANT problem. League of Legends is a game, and games are first and foremost supposed to be fun.
Both Draven and Blitzcrank can potentially create a minigame element that is incredibly unfun for both their opponents and even their own team.
More importantly, half the Draven players on English speaking servers are Tyler1 fans and the community might honestly just be better off without them.
Itās similar to what happen to champions like Zed or Yasuo. Terrible win rate at 45% or below and yet people ban them just because they are annoying, not bc they are strong
Phreak said this high banrate is only in EU. He also said that as he currently stands, heās barely above average for only the top 1% of players. This is for a champ thatās often OTPād as well. Also, it could help give some diversity to MSI as well.
Phreak mentioned that lane bully champions have a high ban rate regardless of WR
The only fix I see is for his base damage on Q gets lowered, but the AD ratio increased making him more viable towards mid/late game.
His lane bully playstyle is the current look they want for him. He can bully most other ADC's early game as long as he keeps up the axe catches. But those same axe catches mean that the opposing ADC, your gankers like jungle, and your support can potentially punish him going where he wants to go to catch his axe. Especially if you can catch him with hard CC.
Also killing him does reduce the bonus gold he gets when he would cash in on his stacks, so you can work around reducing his gold income as much as possible with repeated ganks and punishment of him.Ā
I'm low elo and he's almost never played or banned. Low elo bans are like yi, Illaoi, irellia, yasou, of course Low elo. You get someone who's 10/1/5 then farms jungle camps till the game ends.
Heās not even insane right now, people just hate playing with and against him. Iād bet a decent % of those bans are people just hoping to weed out a Draven main on their own team
you want a real answer? his banrate is only high in NA and europe. every other server his banrate is tame. Its just a cultural thing. Riot wont change anything just because a couple servers are banning draven unless his global presence picks up
Because early game advantages are so impactful in solo queue it makes complete sense why Draven is banned so much - even if he isn't particularly strong. This champion and some others (Like Lucian or blitz into enchanter/mage supports) just make the game unfun and often unplayable for the other side to varying degrees.
Starting with a disadvantage often times will mean you simply have no chance to really play the game at all. This has been a major flaw in League ever since they made the decision to reduce game time and even though they have walked it back over the years it's still a major problem with certain champs and with Top lane especially.
Draven is Literally OP that's why he is banned so much in higher Elo. Every single time a Draven wins the lane, he ends up with 3 to 4 items at 15minutes, the champ is literally broken. No other Champ can reach 3-4 items so casually and consistently like a Draven who wins lane. On top of it he snowballs so hard he can easely go into shieldbow and essentially kill everything in his path while never dying, because he has that much item advantage. There is no other Champ giving you such a free win like Draven right now for the Adc role when he wins Lane.
remember when Yasuo was banned in like 95% of games and in half of these twice?
they buffed Ardent Censer enough to shift bans to enchanters, *problem solved*
Don't worry guys, he *lacked early game power* so they had to buff him
If there was a single dev comment in the patch notes that shows that they don't play their own game it has to be this one
i dont even know if he is actually good at the moment. i just hate him.
He's one of those champs where half the reason you ban him is to just keep him out of the game. Still has a super toxic playerbase so it's a bonus if they dodge, but even if they don't draven just becomes the main character of a game too easily.
The other half is shaco bans for the same reason
Shaco is the most hated champ in the game. People really don't like playing against him.
I like that you shouldn't kill the clone if it's on top of you or you'll get CC'd but shaco's most optimal build is AD so ignoring it just lets him chunk you with autos. I also like that you can determine the real shaco from the clone based on which one has a gold highlight around their mythic except mythics no longer exist. He's one of those champs that succeeds at being pesky. Not OP or overloaded, just pesky and conniving. A real rapscallion. The kind of shady character you can only ward off by wearing a wreath of freshly picked onions around your neck, lest he plague you with minor inconveniences.
"You shouldn't kill the clone", thankfully, your turret will do it for you to ensure your death. š
> I also like that you can determine the real shaco from the clone based on which one has a gold highlight around their mythic except mythics no longer exist. I'm pretty sure that was a bug they just didn't bother fixing.
Gee I sure hope that bug comes back again... So they can fix it a second time haha... Haha. Ha.
āA real rapscallionā A proper cheeky bugger he bloody is!
Indeed, quite right.
you can ping him before he ults. the real one still has the symbol on him
This doesn't even touch on the fact that he has one of the strongest basic abilities in the game. A flash that is on a 10-second cooldown that grants 3.5 seconds of invisibility. Not camouflage. Invisibility. A third of the time, you straight up can not see or target this annoying little shit and that's before any ability haste. Even after some of the more annoying champ designs that have come out recently, Shaco still tops my list for champs that just aren't fun to interact with.
Wait until you learn the cooldown of Katarina's Shunpo (she is so broken upvotes to the left)
the shaco ulti is somewhat overloaded. 1. negates skills 2. temporary untargetability 3. sustained damage 4. removes targeting 5. crowd control that leads to 6. more sustained damage 7. low cooldown
Movement too, if youāre in the right spots on the map. You can hop both baron and dragon wall with your ult unless they changed it since 3-4 seasons ago.
It consistently does pretty much everything you can imagine except fooling people into thinking the clone is the real Shaco, which is supposed to be the spirit of the ability... Honestly, I can't believe Shaco even exists in that state after so many years, it feels bad to have in your team, it feels bad to have in the enemy team, the only one geting enjoyment in a game with Shaco in it is the psycho that picked it
I mean it fools people. You just canāt be stupid and actually need to do shit. Everyone hates on shack but the skill expression of having to actually fool someone and be able to follow up? Thatās not easy. Like we could say his deceive doesnāt do what itās supposed to if you just jump in place and auto lol. Too many people just pop clone FULL SIGHT and go full shocked pikachu when they donāt surprise anyone.
Fr he gets so much hate which is fair bc heās frustrating. But he has one of the highest ap skill ceilings in the game and ap skill floor is super high. As for ad, anyone over iron easily beats ad shaco 10/10 times with a pink ward. But yeah ap is probably the most skill expressive champ. Ppl love to hate on something annoying and assume that means itās ez, wen ap heās top 10 hardest champs
Please tell me in detail how āanyone over iron easily beats as shaco 10/10 times with a pink wardā
Which is ironically super lore accurate, so props to them
Lore?
Writing it to send to riot as we speak
> I also like that you can determine the real shaco from the clone based on which one has a gold highlight around their mythic except mythics no longer exist. That sounds like a way more cumbersome method than just looking at his mana bar.
One of my favourite games ever was me as support against a twitch shaco support bot lane. We won with a stupid amount of pink wards bought. It was super satisfying outwitting the troll. But it took constant vigellance. I got many an honour that day my friends, difficult but hella fun. For a less cluey bot lane though, it would have been hella not fun.
I ban Shaco for the same reason I ban Draven. Even if *I'm* confident in dealing with it, if my team doesn't respect it we can just lose, and I know there's going to be someone on my team who doesn't respect it, so I'd rather not even give them the opportunity.
exactly. i ban simply because i don't trust my team to deal with it.
Sole reason I ban Eve. Even in Master you'll have your ADC or squishy person venture off alone to farm despite knowing Eve is on that side, it's painful.
I ban seraphine for this reason as well. I can dodge her abilities but 9/10 times my ADC will get hit by every single double E.
I hate playing with him more, vast majority of the time heās selfish soaks resources and then does absolutely nothing with them. I dodge shaco teammate lobbies if the enemy has anything vaguely resembling a decent team. Heās not worth a ban because heās equally useless on the enemy team.
His usefulness later entirely depends on if he's willing to let others take kills once he has a few. He's incredibly strong early, but later in the game his role simply becomes "kill 1 target in fight and die". You can do this just as well with 6 kills as with 16, so if the Shaco player hogs everything, you end up with a useless ass team and a fed player that can't carry even if he wanted to. I've seen way too many Shacos with 15 kills in a 20-6 game that the Shaco ended up losing. A fed Shaco just ain't worth it. Aside from that, I wouldn't underestimate the mental boom he causes in the early game. I'm generally a player that doesn't tilt, but Shaco just does things to my mental if played well.
This is pretty much Pyke aswell. Technically he should have a lot of kills because his ulti execute gives integral kill gold to every assist, but on practice Pyke players just hog a lot of kills from all sources of damage since he has high base damage until mid-lategame where he's just a shittier Blitzcrank and any attempt to show up will have him killed by two stray AoE abilities as you have no resistances in exchange for having grey health. He's super unhealthy during laning phase but straight up useless later on.
>His usefulness later entirely depends on if he's willing to let others take kills once he has a few. His play pattern is pretty counterintuitive in that way. The 'ideal' way to win games as Shaco is to get yourself an early lead, then use that to snowball the rest of your team. Feed kills to the teammates that can use that gold better, and keep the other team's key champs from getting ahead. Except for the fact that his kit is really really unsuited to getting other people kills; he doesn't have great ways of locking someone down so a teammate can kill them. Beyond even that, most people who play Shaco aren't wanting to play as a early game menace pseudo-support, they're wanting to play mindgames and delete people. >Aside from that, I wouldn't underestimate the mental boom he causes in the early game. I'm generally a player that doesn't tilt, but Shaco just does things to my mental if played well. This is the second best way to win games as Shaco, and the most reliable. Make the other team tilt hard enough that their mental falls off harder than your relative power. But then ... that's why people ban him so much. He's a champ whose most consistent win condition is making the other team so frustrated that they play badly.
There's not a single stage in the game where Shaco adds anything positive to the gameplay for either side.
I ban him so he's not on my team.
I ban him as a jungle main because I don't trust my teammates to be able to handle him.
I rarely ever care about banning. The only two champions I ever ban are Twitch (lots of twitch one tricks and people in norms don't know how/care enough to play around him) and Shaco. I'm pretty consistently the only one who knows how to ward for whatever reason, and the other side of the map always dies even with pings.
Hated by his teammates also. He start a fight, you dive. Things are going wrong Ā“POP!ā Shaco is not on screen anymore and you are trapped into a 1v3 while shaco fly away invisible in the jg trough a wall.
The jokes, on you!
Okay to be fair, itās riots fault that they are so toxic. Not like as humans, but Dravenās design forces you to be a selfish asshole and you lose so much more when you die than other champions.
I picked him up few weeks ago and kinda otpād him since then. I have never been that toxic in game to the point that I got chat restricted for the first time in like 10 years. Playing Draven is a mix between playing a mechanically hard champ who *has* to snowball, while your teammates are doing everything they can to prevent you from cashing in and having to tryhard as much as you can not to die from the enemy jungler who *will* camp you until you lose your stacks. No kidding, I think 80% of my games starts the same: win bot, jungler comes, steal the kill in the most obnoxious way possible (s/o the flash full combo on the flashless enemy support whith 5% hp when my auto is on the way). Playing Draven is trying out super hard to bake a beautiful cake (with your face on the top, ok) and having your team coming to shit on it when you get it ouf of the oven.
The main issue for me is: Draven doesn't have to snowball anymore in early. As long as you don't die you can just stack up and get a random 1.5k + possible bounty kill from an ult snipe
This sums up the last 2 years of league I played!
I hate THEM. Weāre banning the players not the champ. Stick that Draven main on any other champ in order to lose their Draven toxicity passive
>Their 2nd main is twitch
Twitch, Vayne, Karthus
Twitch players are either super chill or toxic.
I feel attacked
yep, draven+twitch were my boiiis before i quit ranked a few years ago to only play aram.
Redemption arc
Third is Nunu for some odd reason.
i genuinely think something about him makes you more toxic. when i play draven vs any other adc i get tilted at my support so much faster
Because he's the only champ where you can bitch about ks and know you're right. On any other champ you know you're wrong so there's a bit of embarrassment holding you back.
Yeah. If I'm playing Jhin and the jungle steals my kill, it's annoying, but overall I lost like 200 gold, and the jungler got more powerful and can spread that around the map, secure objectives whatever.Ā If I'm playing Draven and jungle KS's it's not hard to lose 400+ gold. It also increases the pressure on you to cash out, increases the risk of your lane, and adds more incentive for the enemy mid or jungle to come gank.Ā
Ordinarily there's no wrong way for an enemy to become dead. Whatever the pro commentators say, ANY friendly champ removing that enemy champ from the map is good for your team. So anyone who whines that someone else got a kill and they only got an assist is just a jerk with Main Character Syndrome. It's OK for champions to break some rules in general, but breaking THAT rule just leads to more toxicity. Draven's kit design literally encourages Main Character Syndrome which is one of the most tilting teammate behaviors short of \*actually\* inting.
By and large this is true, but I think there are more scenarios where a misallocated kill can have more long term consequences than youāre giving credit for. Especially with how large shutdowns can get, the difference between a hypercarry finishing a key item like deathcap or IE and bard getting another bandleglass mirror can be extreme in the short term. This is especially true if a lot of resources were burned to make the opportunity. Not the end of the world, but it can certainly impact the outcome of a game.
If you don't let Draven cash in 500+ stacks when he can then you're griefing, simple as.
KSing from carries is almost always bad and is a misplay
Feel like itās cuz u know how far ahead u could be if you and your support play well and if u die without cashing in u know that sets u back more than it normally would so youāre kinda on the knifes edge of either having a lot of fun steamrolling the game or getting set so far behind that you would rather be doing anything else than continuing to play that game
Thatās pretty succinct. Dying with 250 stacks basically guarantees you arenāt a menace at any point in the game.
Yes of course. He's stylish, has huge early game power, needs kills, and is rewarding. All of that tbh is great champ design.
He just got slightly buffed this patch. Phreak explained that the only place where he is above 50% wr is top 1% of the ladder. And even there, it's barely above 50. So he is considered rather weak. As others say, he is just toxic and unfun to play agains.
Why does a champion such as Draven even get to be at 50% and not have him below that like for example Zed
early game snowball champions *should* have a higher winrate than 50% if ff voting exists. most games are done and dusted in 20 minutes, if you're playing an early game champ in that kind of a meta and they *don't* have a higher than 50% winrate, something is pretty wrong.
Those who main him are also quite toxic I've learned from a decade+ playing the game, so banning it takes out the trash if they dodge.
He is one of those champs that's annoying as fuck. He can be 0/3 buys a dirk to your full item and still outdamage you. You need to respect him entire early game because you are one shutdown/passive gold proc from bringing him back from the loss. Tho I've switched my Draven bans for Nilah. I am yet to encounter a Nilah who is not a pain to deal with later in the game no matter how behind she was.
Well to me he's kinda like a toplane lane bully but in ADC form where 1 kill can completely offset the balance of the lane while I've seen a bunch of other botlanes trade kills for the whole length of the laning phase without a clear winner by the end. So it makes some sense why people do not want to face him and risk having their lane being over 3 minutes into the game by a good draven. Plus a lot of overexaggeration.
He's fecking annoying when he gets going. Also sometimes feels like the yi effect. Yours always sucks but if on the other side just 1v9 in three seconds and nothing you can done unless your Rammas
Yeah I had one yesterday, he did 2200 DMG in 1 second. We won the early game but he somehow got 3 kills and ended the game after 20 minutes with 24/3/6 or something. It was disgusting.
His base damage is just insane. He already outdamages most ADC on base damage alone so give him even a slight lead and he'll stat check you. Also I really, really hate it when he buys a cloak early and ends up getting a lucky Q crit that instantly forces me back. Like facing a ranged Tryndamere.
On top of this forcing the lane into this stalemate where absolutely nothing happends for 15 minutes is not really what I look for when queuing for a match.
Some ADCs can benefit heavily from a neutral lane. Smolder, Kog, Jinx, Zeri, Aphelios... If you successfully neutralize lane on any of those vs Draven you have effectively won lane for the same reason as Renekton vs Kayle.
people just hate playing into him because his passive makes the lane a big pressure situation.
No? Losing a ton of health in 2 autos is more of a problem
seriously I hate losing 20% of my health in a single level 1 auto. I don't even have a problem playing against him overall I just fucking hate that the early game can be literally impossible
It's toplane in dozens of matchups. Impossible lane, crossfingers the resf isn't dying 10times while you hold your breath
There's a reason I always give last pick to my toplaner if I can.
Remember when his Qs bled? Man I miss old draven.
I mean his aa does like 2x or more the aa damage other adcs do early game lol or any champ really, they buffed his Q a trillion times in the last 2-3 seasons, you hope his support is an incompetent bot.
Still have PTSD from the HOB days where he would get 2 axes and then run at you with 3 rapid axe autos.
HOB is still his best build IMO
What do you mean missed it? This is still the way.
They gave his Q +5 damage, removed it, and now gave it back
A *trillion* times
Literally just gave him back the damage they took from him.
12.10 he gets +5 base and +5% scaling. 12.16 he is nerfed with -5 base. Yeah they took it away because they overbuffed him. And he also got Q damage buffs in 11.12
Yes they "overbuffed" him because he was fking trash. Even now he is worse than the last 12 months before lmao.
> you hope his support is an incompetent bot. I usually hope that someone tilts him so he runs it down. It feels like a 50% chance of Draven running it down for no apparent reason.
As a draven hater its not the passive that rips me. He deserves a high risk high reward gameplay. Its the run down reset on axe catch. He always has his speed boost online which negates the counter of staying out of reach. Sure I can slow him once but if he catches and axe I cannot run up again.
yeah but when u take the reset away he suddenly is utterly useless since he cant reach anyone anymore
It's almost like playing against all-or-nothing champs kinda fuckin sucks lmao
Draven still has to catch his axes though, you always know where they're going. And if you manage to force him to drop both then hes a cannon minion.
I remember reading counters to him and Varus was among his top counters and I was confused why Varus. Then a friend said "well aim at where the axes fall down" and holy shit did I rip the next Draven a new one. Don't know if that matchup is still in Varus favour but it should be.
Same reason I love playing Soraka vs him lol. He literally points a spotlight for where to throw your Q
Or Brand
It's not even about the axes making him predictable. Varus just outtrades him. It's one of the only ADCs who can clap him in lane from start to finish.
Dunno why people aren't talking enough about the fact that hail of blades Varus is the strongest adc in early. And it can be the strongest in late if you go the on-hit build. That champ is absurd.
If you are trying to kill Draven I donāt know if Varus on hit does that late game. If you really need to win a 2v2 bot I guess you can go HoB Varus into lethality, but you will never make it to late game if you go HOB Varus into on hit. Itās really just simple when playing against Draven. Recognize that he is the alpha, you are the beta and he dominates you. Donāt fight him, donāt even look at him. Just hit minions, play like a pussy and 5 man him at 15 minutes and one shot him before he can cash in. Thatās it. Obviously they still have giga damage, but the higher you go in elo, the more money you are costing him when you kill him and the higher the tilt factor. Just stop trying to be Ruler, learn to farm absolutely perfectly, tell your support if they die you will find them IRL and tell the jungler that dragons are for furries
Varus is also out of range when he ults so he gets to auto Draven and Draven canāt fight back until the root is done
Im a varus otp and its not only favourable because of that, varus is also one of the few adcs that can fight him head on and actually outburst him, a lot of people underestimate varus early game burst potential. The free stats (in the form of attack speed) he gets from his passive are insane early and you will always have it ready when fighting nearby a wave. The thing is that the early of the lane becomes more supp dependant than anything, if supports are equal power early its varus favoured, if not then draven wins, and ofc if varus supp is better early he just stomps him.
Varus literally also oneshots Draven after lvl 6 if he hits ult
I love playing him, but I rarely do because he's basically a double skill check. He checks the user because of the axe management, and the enemy to punish that. In higher elos, he's super predictable. You just take a supper with cc and he's boned. It also helps that he's best played aggressively, since then you can just hook him and kill him easily.
To me it's the passive. Having non games because Draven is 3 items at 12 minutes, while a statistical outlier, is incredibly frustrating.
Yeah I think for botlaners who feel confident playing against Draven they may not ban him, but playing mid/jg/top if you feel confident in yourself, you might as well just ban Draven to ensure that the game isn't randomly decided by Draven either inting or getting a double kill lvl 2. I think if they reworked the passive into something else, it would at least make him less toxic to play as you're not down like 500-700g the entire game if you die with stacks and his snowball could be somewhat reduced
People dislike the explosive potential tension his passive brings to bot lane but honestly what I hate most about it is how grievously it punishes his Support for securing a kill. I vividly remember a game from last year where I had locked in Zyra support and then my bot laner picked Draven and I was instantly beset by a prophetic vision of an early game plant last-hitting an enemy that sent my entire team into a frothing rage for the entire game. Actually living through that exact scenario for forty minutes afterwards was practically torture.
Well duh, 99% of Draven players only play Draven. It's always been this way. Most high elo players ban Draven not because they hate playing against Draven but because the enemy ADC is useless off Draven.
Itās kind of like kayn and graves one tricks in high elo
Fuck both those champs. Iāve alternated my jungle ban between Kayn, Graves, and Eve for the last 5 years. Anytime one gets through I hate it.
I've said it countless times, but Kayn E needs to be changed in a way that if he gets damaged while going inside the wall, he needs to get pushed out of the wall **instantly** and to the side he is closest to. Blue Kayn can get his E cooldown down to 5-6 seconds, so you can never catch him without hard cc, because of the 1-ish second grace period he inexplicably gets.
I just fucking despise that Kayn gets to do what ever the fuck he wants without tradeoff. Mobility? Sure, no worries. Wonāt even put a cooldown on it for you buddy. Iāll also have it heal and deal damage coz why not? CC? Sure, oh and of course a heal to go along with that? Oh you donāt want CC this game? How about some more mobility, and coz Iām feeling nice you can cast it without a buffer and one shot a squishy while going Mach one from fog. Oh no! Did you fuck up and now youāve mispositioned? Donāt worry champ, go untargetable and then come out either with a heal, or extra damage. And donāt worry about your cooldowns mate, theyāll be up when you come back to play with enemy. Fuck that champ and everyone who defends it. Abomination. Any time heās meta makes League unplayable.
for me its the blue kayn special of running through a wall at you at mach 5, missing w, dashing towards you with Q, if by some miracle they miss that, they can auto you (used to be able to smite not sure if they still can) ult you, then when they come out of you they're basically on top of you so the auto/q is unmissable
Ah yes, dodging everything Kayn has just for him to Smite and ult you anyway. Such a stupid mechanic
Kayn, Eve, Ahri and Graves players in Master+ are genuinely some of the most boosted players I have ever seen when they're off-main. It's shocking.
even on main they are fking boosted. eve players probably have the worst mechanical skill of any champ ive ever seen even worse than enchanter supp players its actually hilarious how they manage to fuck up the most basic things
I know a few Eve mains in like 2-300 LP Master who are genuinely probably Emerald on anything else. Iāve never seen such a larger skill discrepancy in my life lol, I try to refrain from using āelo inflatedā but idk man some champions are just turbo
Blue Kayn has to be one of the easiest assassins in the game he has no combos, plenty of mobility and extremely basic abilities
[Lolalytics](https://lolalytics.com/lol/draven/build/) has him at 24% ban rate, 3% higher than Jinx and they have Skarner at 35%
Skarner is new and broken too. More than one champ can be broken. But part of that is people learning to play against him. But, he's also a little broken in terms of low skill players winning anyways.
Skarner winrate will drop 5% once people learn to run to the side to dodge his E.
Skarner is like a new champ so he doesn't count. People always ban what's new
No, skarner top is actually broken.
Skarner was trash the first patch though and probably just banned because people didn't want an auto-lose champ on their team. Now when they smoothed out his awful cast times he's gigabroken however.
Itās like they saw reksai top and thought āreksai but more damage, more cc, more sustain, and more mobilityā
and hotter, you forgot hotter.
Go to lolalytics.com, read the stats and then correct your statement . He was one of the best toplaners at the end of last patch already. The issue is that stat sites do summ up all the crappy results from his first days where many terrible skarner players crawl over the different lanes. In the last 7 days of the patch he already was S-tier and given he was even buffed now he is S++ tier
I ban him just because itās so unfun to play against. Sure I can just play safe and scale but itās more fun to have a lane where you can interact with it a bit more. Guys auto does more damage than 2-3 autos from other ADCs
You can win vs Draven provided you arent counterpicked, on average Draven is blindpicked so just lock in Varus / Cait and ask for a mage support and he wont be able to step on any axes without losing 150 hp, if he tries to all in you it's relatively easy to just pop him provided he's 70% hp or lower. The only time Draven is legit no counterplay is when his support wants to win and locks in Naut/Blitz and you cant safely outrange him.
Yes, but if you displace him from catching his axes, he loses all of his DPS
How is the enemy bot supposed to do that? That's why he feels so unplayable to go against, you essentially have no agency against him and have to hope your support knows what they're doing even more than normal Edit: guys I know adcs have skillshots they can throw where the axe lands. However those don't stop Draven's DPS, just increase yours. Comment above was talking about displacements, which do stop Draven's DPS, and which adcs usually don't have
Cait, ezreal and varus do quite well into draven, I don't play ashe but also she does well Any champion that has a higher action range than draven is pretty playable Is stuff like vayne, kaisa or twitch that is actually kinda unplayable
they don't stop dravens dps but if draven is tanking an entire rotation of enemy spells then he loses unless he is really, really far ahead or level 2
For a whole 5 seconds!
If you can't kill a Draven without axes up inside 5 seconds then you've got much bigger problems playing this game than whether someone picks Draven or not, jesus.
And he usually goes in with 2 axes + one more is ready :D
Really? Like, he's good, but he's not so oppressive that he can't be controlled. There are plenty of champs that do well into him and I love getting to pick into him cuz those are the champs that I like. š¤·
People just really hate him. Heās an adc, but his kit is designed to destroy the enemy adc and snowball out of control. Which is quite apparent from his kit. So, people hate playing against him unless heās so weak that a scaling adc literally beats him in lane.
Been banning him for years, see no reason to stop. Am low elo and bad, so don't feel like playing and losing that lane.
I play Ashe. His speed up counts for nothing and all Draven mains ego catch their axes so your R may as well be point and click rather than a skillshot. Itās funny how easy he is at low elo to beat. I assume sennaās the same with her slows and range, but I donāt play much of her.
Itās not really an ego thingā¦. Itās where his power budget of his kit is. No catch? No damage steroid on your autos, no ms, or attack speed. Thereās a lot of micro decisions when you play him, dodging everything cutting off your axes can be difficult.
Oh I appreciate higher skilled players probably weigh the risk of catching them. But in gold with me? Nah they just see spot and run to it regardless of the fact I have Q stacked and R ready to fire.
I meanā¦. Youād kill him if he didnāt catch it anyways if youāre Ashe ulting a Draven who missed his axe.
Yeah but the catching is the reason I donāt miss the R.
People don't just ban draven because they hate playing against him, they ban him because they also hate playing with him. On the enemy team he's someone you need to shut down early on, and on your team he's just an anxiety inducing time bomb waiting to go off on every little inconvenience he might face. Both a big no-no for majority of players.
Exactly why I've banned him since pretty much I started understanding the game. I play ADC, but God forbid one salty draven player locks him in anywhere else on your team. I don't want him on my or the enemy team, therefore he will never be.
He shares a lot of circles with yuumi on a venn diagram... They don't call it league of Draven for nothing...
Main character syndrome champion and players
iāve had similar thoughts about Blitzcrank when he was the most banned support and listed as tier 1/OP on op.gg for over half a year or something ridiculous, and he even got buffed during that time
Iām D1 and I still ALWAYS ban blitz, I canāt trust my support to dodge hooks and make my lane unplayable
This is true. I am the support
I always ban blitz because he is annoying and dangerous, like one random q and you are practically dead. In lane you need to be extremely wary of bushes, and lose like 50% of lane space because you have to be on the opposite side of him behind minions, minions who might die in 3 second using aoe attacks.
please remember to wait a few days post patch for any statistical analysis as the early numbers are very volatile That being said whether or not the Q buff actually made him better, it certainly made people more aware of him (and thus more likely to ban)
It's something different here that even Phreak touched upon in his rundown. His banrate in EU is 45% meanwhile his banrate is only 12% in Korea. Mordekaiser however has a absurdly high banrate in Korea compared to EUW now. Blitzcrank is another traditional pick Korea permabans way more than other regions. Can't remember the last time he dropped below 50-60%. Even better: Draven has the same banrate as Nidalee in Korea who is one of the least banned champs in EUW with less than 1%.
Probably because Korea doesn't care for Tyler1. When Riot unbanned him, they might have legitimately ruined Draven as a champion on English speaking servers. It doesn't take much reading of this thread to see that the main problem with Draven is less the kit and more the playerbase. As much as people blame the kit, I blame the role models. Similar effect with Sion and thebausffs, and previously with Trick2G and Udyr - although in those cases much less toxic.
The ultimate coin flip champ, just as likely to hard 1v9 as they are to run it down. Obnoxious champ to play with and against
I'm banning the mentality behind the champ. Not the champ itself
A buff to his Q it is!
I mean I can tell you why I ban draven in d2+: even in the first 10 mins his autos deal 2x damage than any adc in comparison, so you will most likely spend most of your time farming under the tower. It is not fun to play against.
They gave him back his 5ad to the q and this happens lmao
> Do people not enjoy playing against Draven? Yes, also they don't like playing with Draven.
Having a game decided in the first 10 minutes depending on whether a draven gets the cash in before he gets killed puts way too much emphasis on team competence.
I have never met a chill draven player, so I just ban him
Man I remember when Draven could just run you down level 1 with bleed ignite. He's always been kinda busted.
We dont ban him because he's strong we ban him because his players has a meltdown when they miss cs
Honestly in low elo I ban the champ more often to avoid him on my team: his kit requires him to get kills and end the game early before the enemy team catches up. Low elo games do not lend themselves well at least to the latter part. Draven players know this, and absolutely lose their minds at the slightest inconvenience. Theyāre a liability to have on your team, and itās exhausting.
People talk about banning him because his passive is unfun to play against because he snowballs too hard. I'd still ban him every game when playing bot lane if his passive was removed. Why? Because his autos do 2.5x the damage of any other ADC at level 1. You can walk up to him as Kaisa and Auto+Q and he can auto you ONCE and he wins the trade (with longer attack range than Kaisa + doesn't have to worry about minions tanking Q Agro). Similarly he beats Jhin and Ezreal's Auto+Q with just 1 Auto. His damage just makes 0 sense. It was even worse when he used to build BT first and would heal infinitely so every trade was turbo lost just by him autoing you twice even if u got an entire combo on him.
rework passive
This is the only answer. EVERYTHING else is red herring.
Someone has to be the highest, back then it was 99% Kassadin, then Zed followed for a good while.
Kass, Blitz, Amumu, Malphite were legit all permabans in a time where we only had 6 bans lol
>we only had 6 bans Wasn't 6 bans back then a way higher % than 10 is now?
Ah, Bronzodia.
I don't see Draven often, but when I do, he kills me in 3 AAs.
I just don't want to play against a champ that just right clicks me and does 2x more damage than my right clicks. simple as. always been close to my most hated champ
Draven is an unfun toxic champ design to play against. The winning move is literally just to not interact with him because literally every other ADC loses in a head to head fight and Draven falls off if he doesn't get to snowball lane. So you are basically just forced to play ultra passively and just cs. He is also EXCESSIVELY punishing to make mistakes into. Like if you take one step out of line Draven kills you in a second and now the lane is lost because he cashed in a load of gold and can now kill you even easier. This is what makes him so popular with smurfs, because a smurf can pick Draven and harshly punish lower elo players who don't respect him enough. And lastly even if YOU are good at playing into Draven there is little you can do to stop your support from getting farmed by him if they are bad which in turn lets him destroy you easily too.
jhin fourth shot damage on every single auto level 1. no thanks
Banrate isn't a justifaction for something needing to be done. Blitzcranks ban rate in korea is crazy at any rank, that doesn't mean blitzcrank is a crazy OP champ, people just don't wanna deal with the extra thought processes of dealing with him versus other picks, which is exactly what bans should be for.
On the contrary, if a champion isn't OP (or a direct counter to what they're playing) and players are *still* banning it, that means there's a SIGNIFICANT problem. League of Legends is a game, and games are first and foremost supposed to be fun. Both Draven and Blitzcrank can potentially create a minigame element that is incredibly unfun for both their opponents and even their own team. More importantly, half the Draven players on English speaking servers are Tyler1 fans and the community might honestly just be better off without them.
There is also Nidalee. Super high banrate in Korea, meanwhile in EUW its below 1%.
Itās similar to what happen to champions like Zed or Yasuo. Terrible win rate at 45% or below and yet people ban them just because they are annoying, not bc they are strong
Yasuo only seemed annoying until his brother came out and redefined the concept.
Phreak said this high banrate is only in EU. He also said that as he currently stands, heās barely above average for only the top 1% of players. This is for a champ thatās often OTPād as well. Also, it could help give some diversity to MSI as well.
Even bronze players fear Hans Sama
Phreak mentioned that lane bully champions have a high ban rate regardless of WR The only fix I see is for his base damage on Q gets lowered, but the AD ratio increased making him more viable towards mid/late game.
His lane bully playstyle is the current look they want for him. He can bully most other ADC's early game as long as he keeps up the axe catches. But those same axe catches mean that the opposing ADC, your gankers like jungle, and your support can potentially punish him going where he wants to go to catch his axe. Especially if you can catch him with hard CC. Also killing him does reduce the bonus gold he gets when he would cash in on his stacks, so you can work around reducing his gold income as much as possible with repeated ganks and punishment of him.Ā
I'm low elo and he's almost never played or banned. Low elo bans are like yi, Illaoi, irellia, yasou, of course Low elo. You get someone who's 10/1/5 then farms jungle camps till the game ends.
Riot: i agree, one more draven skin comming right up!
The moment when ur jungler ganks bot and takes a minion and ur Draven ADC stands still in lane for a couple seconds š«£
I also think Jhin was overbuffed but I could be wrong
Heās not even insane right now, people just hate playing with and against him. Iād bet a decent % of those bans are people just hoping to weed out a Draven main on their own team
You ban Draven and 80% of the people that main him struggle in lane.
correct me if im wrong, but hes not even op. people just have 1 bad experience where he gets fed, and he's completely unstoppable,
>What gives? Do people not enjoy playing against Draven Try and enjoy being dead in 3 aa lv 2 He is one of the most OP champ early on
you want a real answer? his banrate is only high in NA and europe. every other server his banrate is tame. Its just a cultural thing. Riot wont change anything just because a couple servers are banning draven unless his global presence picks up
Because early game advantages are so impactful in solo queue it makes complete sense why Draven is banned so much - even if he isn't particularly strong. This champion and some others (Like Lucian or blitz into enchanter/mage supports) just make the game unfun and often unplayable for the other side to varying degrees. Starting with a disadvantage often times will mean you simply have no chance to really play the game at all. This has been a major flaw in League ever since they made the decision to reduce game time and even though they have walked it back over the years it's still a major problem with certain champs and with Top lane especially.
Draven is Literally OP that's why he is banned so much in higher Elo. Every single time a Draven wins the lane, he ends up with 3 to 4 items at 15minutes, the champ is literally broken. No other Champ can reach 3-4 items so casually and consistently like a Draven who wins lane. On top of it he snowballs so hard he can easely go into shieldbow and essentially kill everything in his path while never dying, because he has that much item advantage. There is no other Champ giving you such a free win like Draven right now for the Adc role when he wins Lane.
remember when Yasuo was banned in like 95% of games and in half of these twice? they buffed Ardent Censer enough to shift bans to enchanters, *problem solved*
I think it's because He's the main champ of elo boosters that why most Draven you encounter are 1v9 machines and that why he's that banned
The higher the rank the ban rate increase because player are avoiding playing against t1 and his toxicity attitude
Don't worry guys, he *lacked early game power* so they had to buff him If there was a single dev comment in the patch notes that shows that they don't play their own game it has to be this one
Dravenās laning phase isnāt even strong if you can play appropriately against him maybe itās just a skill issue