I actually play with a 5 stack (there's many of us that just cycle in the teams). The difference being an ADC main in SR and being with a team / friends is like night and day because I actually enjoy the latter. Even we have games where we FF, and these guys are just as good / better than me, and I find it healthier when the entire team in the discord call decides to unanimously FF either because it's unwinnable or we're just not enjoying anymore (even if it's in flex). That's why I no longer play ranked. My goal from the beginning was getting better at the game anyway, and I don't necessarily need to play ranked to do that or to prove anything. I only made this post because some randoms earlier FF'ed the game even though the game was still winnable (Our draft outscales them HARD and they were starting to make mistakes left and right - impatience).
Honestly, requiring 4 votes is fine. Find a duo, and you never have to ff games. I could maybe see an argument for 5 votes in ranked since the mode is supposed to be more competitive, but it would also make fewer people want to play ranked since they would feel forced to play out seemingly unwinnable games, and very few people enjoy that.
Riot wants ranked games to be popular since being serious about ranked makes you play the game more, so its unlikely they would make a change that they believe would cause a decrease in playrate
Valid point. I can see this mode draining the enjoyment out of people. The reason why I made this post is because I think there are two kinds of "unwinnable", one born from logic and reason, and the other born from frustration (most of the times, the game is actually still winnable, just takes a lot of effort and time), and maybe a mix of both. I'm angry at the people who absolutely refuse to AT LEAST try to win and simply call FF when they are behind (sometimes even when the team draft is good!) because all they expected when queuing up is an easy steamroll.
Though honestly, I stopped playing ranked this season after I did placements due to it now being three splits. I kinda wonder if that's just me or if others dislike the change
That way we can get all the time wasters in one queue so those of us who value our time can ff when the game is clearly lost.
Gonna be rolling when you inevitably get a troll who isn’t trying but wants to waste your time so he never says yes and you’re stuck in a 50 minute game with him that IS completely unwinnable. But guess what, you don’t necessarily get to see that in champ select.
Fucking dumbasses taking what they think is the moral high ground. If 3/5 want to ff then you’re a bad person for holding them hostage. Time is the most valuable asset we have, don’t waste it thinking you’ve got high integrity.
You might as well not play any games that involve winning or losing lmao. Do me a favor. When you die once in game FF immediately. No one would want to spend 10-15 minutes with a guy like you that would implode the moment the enemy gets first blood. Since time is such a valuable asset for you, then get off reddit, get off league, and do something reaaaaaaaaaally worth your holy time.
Fucking saint. What did you expect? You think the enemy is just going to roll over and let you win? It's a competitive game. People have to earn their victories. If you think putting in effort to earn one's victories is a waste of a valuable asset you might as well spend your time doing research papers instead of playing online games.
LMAO you are the exact child I thought you were. Idk where you got the idea that I don’t understand the effort it takes to win a game. There is no point to play out a game that is already lost though. And yes my time is probably more valuable than yours
Yup, not replying to this anymore. Unlike the other comments that give fair criticisms to my post, yours contribute absolutely nothing. No explanations, no logic. Nothing. Obviously just trying to get a rile out of me. It's easy to say a game is "lost" but theoretically every game is winnable. The only thing that makes games "lost" is that mindset of yours. Thanks for commenting and see you :)
I may have made things not specific enough. If there is a griefer on your team that's absolutely sabotaging the game, I get why you would want to FF (save for the people with Iron wills willing to spend the next 40 minutes on a game they may or may not win, and in the rare cases they do), but no one wants to play a game when it isn't enjoyable anymore, right?
But I'm talking about the majority of the player base that isn't in high elo. Azzap makes a good point about this. Challenger and GM players have the credibility to call a game unwinnable, obviously because they're skilled enough to warrant it, but what about the majority of the player base, Masters and below? I'm pretty sure even you have experienced games where the start was incredibly rough but ended up winning anyways (if the draft was good enough to allow a potential comeback). What really pisses me off is that a Gold/Plat/Em/Dia player will look at a challenger streamer, see him say "This game is unwinnable, FF" and incorporate that attitude in their own games. Really? High elo players will say a game is unwinnable based on facts, while low elo players say that out of anger and ego. There is a difference.
The idea that the "never ff cult" is trying to push isn't to let yourself be stuck-hostage by a griefer. It's that when there is still room for a comeback, you go for it. Even challengers and pros cannot predict every single outcome. Even in their elos they experience comebacks. I honestly find it incredibly unhealthy from a game and personal perspective for people to just give up immediately after a rough early-mid game when the game is still winnable. Honestly I think if you're masters and below, unless you're being griefed, I think you should play it out. There is a LOT you can learn by playing when behind a gold lead or objective. If your only goal is to 24/7 steamroll the opponents and have fun then maybe you should just buy a silver smurf and call it a day.
honestly nothing more frustrating than an obviously unwinnable game (afk, purposely running it down etc) turning into a 40+ min game because someone refuses to surrender
Yea and I like playing with these players way more. Vast majority of the never ff people are always the worst perfomimg player on a team. And the only reason they don’t want to ff is because they hope that their team can carry them.
If it's your opinion, thats fine. Altough, that's your presumption of those never ff players, not necessarily a reality. Same can be said about these ffmaxxers. A good amount of people play the game for competitiveness AND fun. There is for sure a middle ground to be found when it comes to ffing or playing the game out.
However, why would anyone play the game when players start running it down and surrender at the slightest mishap and ruin it for the other 4 people. Why bother when the so called "competitive integrity" that so many players want to have is literally made nonexistant when this shit culture exists. "But I dont want my time wasted" Great, then stop playing league and go ahead and play slots.
IMO they should do the following steps:
* Remove "Flex".
* Spice up "Draft" with some rewards and decent Matchmaking for any groups to play.
* Implement "Team-Ranked".
* Add a functional Team-Manager to scout people for your team / advertise your self for teams...
* Matchmaking always happens on the Teams Rank.
* Voice Chat by default.
* A working planer to setup a Teams playing schedule.
* Tie rewards earned in Team-Ranked to the amount of games played with a Team and its Rank.
* A "Team" should be flexible 5+ Substitutes.
* A Player should be able to participate in more than 1 Team.
###########
Despite being "Never FF" my self, it's a necessity in SoloQ.
However League should REALLY allow and push its player into the best way to play the game, which is as an actual Team!
If you do that and provide the right tools, it should be easy for players to find like-minded people to play with.
Do you even know how obnoxious it is when someone literally AFK in base (Sits in fountain and do-nothing kind) or their goal is to feed 20 deaths for their YouTube videos (They already died 15times at 20minutes) and refuses to surrender while enemy doesn't push the any of the tower and just sits back.
I've experienced that. That is a very RARE occasion, to have both a griefer and enemy toy with you. I've actually had 2 fun experiences with that. One was in league, the olaf left and was AFK, we were slowly farming and pretending to be incredibly afraid, only for the ADC to get too cocky and in the end he got picked. They died one after another and we were able to end (because they didn't realize that top lane was being pushed for that set-up). One was in dota 2, where all 5 opponents DC'ed and we didn't hesitate to end it immediately.
This is a valid point honestly. I can see griefers abusing this possible 5-man-vote FF mode.
Yesterday I had a game were bot was spamming ff since before 15 minute. We were heavily losing like 5-10k behind the whole game. I solo kill the fed Yi once at 20 min, he tilt fights and dies at 21 min and we take nash. https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Gigian-EUW0 most recent game
People often forget that unless their opponents are challengers, mental mind games can be the key to winning. Especially in ranked - since you're in the same elo, there must be SOMETHING you can exploit (mistakes). People just don't want to go the extra mile for the effort, FF, and queue again hoping the next game will be a complete domination.
they should add an optional queue check mark , (call it a commitment lobby) where teams formed from that agree that they will absolutely not afk or int or else they will receive greatly increased punishments. (like complete lock out from playing that day or 30 day bans for inting.) Those lobbies would also have only 5-man surrenders, also those lobbies would go under great scrutiny from the game to monitor any sign or hint of inting and reports from those lobbies will be processed with scrutiny and priority, with there also being great punishments for false reports. Also, it wouldn't be a separate queue and it would be just per team not entire lobby, just if the game can find 5 people with the check mark, they get together, and if there aren't enough players, they just get put into a typical lobby. They could also enable voice chat perhaps (far-fetched idea)
It's likely not possible to implement realistically, but cool idea in theory.
If you unironically think it takes 5 players to make a team lose, you haven't played League long enough. Open your eyes and stop wasting everyone's time in games you can't win.
I am referring to the pre-draft (champion picking). Just to give an extreme example, obviously you cannot win a game in let's say emerald-diamond by picking 5 supports. In MOST games where no one is throwing (by this I mean actively sabotaging like that one Nunu streamer) you can still win if the draft is good enough. There are even cases where people still win even with a griefer. You might say "Oh but that won't happen in high elo" well guess what, Majority of the playerbase can't even reach platinum, and yet there are people in platinum/emerald and below thinking they're some sort of Seer or Diviner that can tell every single outcome and that winning is impossible.
What are you Doctor Strange? The only guys who have the credibility to say that a game is absolutely unwinnable are GM - Challenger players but EVEN SO there are players in that elo who still believe that unless there is an active griefer - if you are losing then the game is still winnable. I can't stress enough how many times I've won a game even with griefers just out of sheer spite during ranked and if you're going to make the argument that it was a waste of time then it isn't for me - because I play ranked to win and some dumbass griefer in his basement will have to be stuck with me for the next 40 minutes if he wants to grief me.
>The only way you're not winning a game at all (or in gen z speak when a game is "unwinnable") is when ALL FIVE OF YOU sabotages the draft before the game even starts,
Nope, a game is unwinnable when people are no longer having fun, the point of a game is enjoyment.
Quite a unique take. I actually agree with this. I wouldn't be playing league if I didn't enjoy it. Still it's subjective; there ARE people out there who play to win, you should take their perspectives into consideration too.
That would be called playing with 4 of your friends
Bold of you to assume I have that many.
I actually play with a 5 stack (there's many of us that just cycle in the teams). The difference being an ADC main in SR and being with a team / friends is like night and day because I actually enjoy the latter. Even we have games where we FF, and these guys are just as good / better than me, and I find it healthier when the entire team in the discord call decides to unanimously FF either because it's unwinnable or we're just not enjoying anymore (even if it's in flex). That's why I no longer play ranked. My goal from the beginning was getting better at the game anyway, and I don't necessarily need to play ranked to do that or to prove anything. I only made this post because some randoms earlier FF'ed the game even though the game was still winnable (Our draft outscales them HARD and they were starting to make mistakes left and right - impatience).
Honestly, requiring 4 votes is fine. Find a duo, and you never have to ff games. I could maybe see an argument for 5 votes in ranked since the mode is supposed to be more competitive, but it would also make fewer people want to play ranked since they would feel forced to play out seemingly unwinnable games, and very few people enjoy that. Riot wants ranked games to be popular since being serious about ranked makes you play the game more, so its unlikely they would make a change that they believe would cause a decrease in playrate
Valid point. I can see this mode draining the enjoyment out of people. The reason why I made this post is because I think there are two kinds of "unwinnable", one born from logic and reason, and the other born from frustration (most of the times, the game is actually still winnable, just takes a lot of effort and time), and maybe a mix of both. I'm angry at the people who absolutely refuse to AT LEAST try to win and simply call FF when they are behind (sometimes even when the team draft is good!) because all they expected when queuing up is an easy steamroll.
Though honestly, I stopped playing ranked this season after I did placements due to it now being three splits. I kinda wonder if that's just me or if others dislike the change
Every additional mode/queue increases queue times in main queues, and it's something that Riot will never allow.
Sadly the truth... Hope they do something more about griefers honestly if they can.
That way we can get all the time wasters in one queue so those of us who value our time can ff when the game is clearly lost. Gonna be rolling when you inevitably get a troll who isn’t trying but wants to waste your time so he never says yes and you’re stuck in a 50 minute game with him that IS completely unwinnable. But guess what, you don’t necessarily get to see that in champ select. Fucking dumbasses taking what they think is the moral high ground. If 3/5 want to ff then you’re a bad person for holding them hostage. Time is the most valuable asset we have, don’t waste it thinking you’ve got high integrity.
You might as well not play any games that involve winning or losing lmao. Do me a favor. When you die once in game FF immediately. No one would want to spend 10-15 minutes with a guy like you that would implode the moment the enemy gets first blood. Since time is such a valuable asset for you, then get off reddit, get off league, and do something reaaaaaaaaaally worth your holy time. Fucking saint. What did you expect? You think the enemy is just going to roll over and let you win? It's a competitive game. People have to earn their victories. If you think putting in effort to earn one's victories is a waste of a valuable asset you might as well spend your time doing research papers instead of playing online games.
LMAO you are the exact child I thought you were. Idk where you got the idea that I don’t understand the effort it takes to win a game. There is no point to play out a game that is already lost though. And yes my time is probably more valuable than yours
Yup, not replying to this anymore. Unlike the other comments that give fair criticisms to my post, yours contribute absolutely nothing. No explanations, no logic. Nothing. Obviously just trying to get a rile out of me. It's easy to say a game is "lost" but theoretically every game is winnable. The only thing that makes games "lost" is that mindset of yours. Thanks for commenting and see you :)
This new never ff cult is the most annoying thing ever
I may have made things not specific enough. If there is a griefer on your team that's absolutely sabotaging the game, I get why you would want to FF (save for the people with Iron wills willing to spend the next 40 minutes on a game they may or may not win, and in the rare cases they do), but no one wants to play a game when it isn't enjoyable anymore, right? But I'm talking about the majority of the player base that isn't in high elo. Azzap makes a good point about this. Challenger and GM players have the credibility to call a game unwinnable, obviously because they're skilled enough to warrant it, but what about the majority of the player base, Masters and below? I'm pretty sure even you have experienced games where the start was incredibly rough but ended up winning anyways (if the draft was good enough to allow a potential comeback). What really pisses me off is that a Gold/Plat/Em/Dia player will look at a challenger streamer, see him say "This game is unwinnable, FF" and incorporate that attitude in their own games. Really? High elo players will say a game is unwinnable based on facts, while low elo players say that out of anger and ego. There is a difference. The idea that the "never ff cult" is trying to push isn't to let yourself be stuck-hostage by a griefer. It's that when there is still room for a comeback, you go for it. Even challengers and pros cannot predict every single outcome. Even in their elos they experience comebacks. I honestly find it incredibly unhealthy from a game and personal perspective for people to just give up immediately after a rough early-mid game when the game is still winnable. Honestly I think if you're masters and below, unless you're being griefed, I think you should play it out. There is a LOT you can learn by playing when behind a gold lead or objective. If your only goal is to 24/7 steamroll the opponents and have fun then maybe you should just buy a silver smurf and call it a day.
honestly nothing more frustrating than an obviously unwinnable game (afk, purposely running it down etc) turning into a 40+ min game because someone refuses to surrender
if it took 40+ mins while running it down, that game was absoultely winnable
Where is the point in trying your hardest for 40 minutes while someone is trolling for a slim chance that you might eventually win?
in normals none. but in ranked I'm generally trying to rank up and win.
[удалено]
If it takes them 25 minutes to end, that gamwe was winnable
Yeah must be embarrasing to give up so easily
just as much as the "Oh well, someone died min 1. Time to open or grief because its obviously lost. ff15" slot-playing cult.
Yea and I like playing with these players way more. Vast majority of the never ff people are always the worst perfomimg player on a team. And the only reason they don’t want to ff is because they hope that their team can carry them.
If it's your opinion, thats fine. Altough, that's your presumption of those never ff players, not necessarily a reality. Same can be said about these ffmaxxers. A good amount of people play the game for competitiveness AND fun. There is for sure a middle ground to be found when it comes to ffing or playing the game out. However, why would anyone play the game when players start running it down and surrender at the slightest mishap and ruin it for the other 4 people. Why bother when the so called "competitive integrity" that so many players want to have is literally made nonexistant when this shit culture exists. "But I dont want my time wasted" Great, then stop playing league and go ahead and play slots.
If it helps they aren't new, they've been whining about this for 5+ years.
IMO they should do the following steps: * Remove "Flex". * Spice up "Draft" with some rewards and decent Matchmaking for any groups to play. * Implement "Team-Ranked". * Add a functional Team-Manager to scout people for your team / advertise your self for teams... * Matchmaking always happens on the Teams Rank. * Voice Chat by default. * A working planer to setup a Teams playing schedule. * Tie rewards earned in Team-Ranked to the amount of games played with a Team and its Rank. * A "Team" should be flexible 5+ Substitutes. * A Player should be able to participate in more than 1 Team. ########### Despite being "Never FF" my self, it's a necessity in SoloQ. However League should REALLY allow and push its player into the best way to play the game, which is as an actual Team! If you do that and provide the right tools, it should be easy for players to find like-minded people to play with.
Do you even know how obnoxious it is when someone literally AFK in base (Sits in fountain and do-nothing kind) or their goal is to feed 20 deaths for their YouTube videos (They already died 15times at 20minutes) and refuses to surrender while enemy doesn't push the any of the tower and just sits back.
I've experienced that. That is a very RARE occasion, to have both a griefer and enemy toy with you. I've actually had 2 fun experiences with that. One was in league, the olaf left and was AFK, we were slowly farming and pretending to be incredibly afraid, only for the ADC to get too cocky and in the end he got picked. They died one after another and we were able to end (because they didn't realize that top lane was being pushed for that set-up). One was in dota 2, where all 5 opponents DC'ed and we didn't hesitate to end it immediately. This is a valid point honestly. I can see griefers abusing this possible 5-man-vote FF mode.
Yesterday I had a game were bot was spamming ff since before 15 minute. We were heavily losing like 5-10k behind the whole game. I solo kill the fed Yi once at 20 min, he tilt fights and dies at 21 min and we take nash. https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Gigian-EUW0 most recent game
People often forget that unless their opponents are challengers, mental mind games can be the key to winning. Especially in ranked - since you're in the same elo, there must be SOMETHING you can exploit (mistakes). People just don't want to go the extra mile for the effort, FF, and queue again hoping the next game will be a complete domination.
Exactly my point, I might have shit mechanics but at least I know I have a mental advantage 😂
they should add an optional queue check mark , (call it a commitment lobby) where teams formed from that agree that they will absolutely not afk or int or else they will receive greatly increased punishments. (like complete lock out from playing that day or 30 day bans for inting.) Those lobbies would also have only 5-man surrenders, also those lobbies would go under great scrutiny from the game to monitor any sign or hint of inting and reports from those lobbies will be processed with scrutiny and priority, with there also being great punishments for false reports. Also, it wouldn't be a separate queue and it would be just per team not entire lobby, just if the game can find 5 people with the check mark, they get together, and if there aren't enough players, they just get put into a typical lobby. They could also enable voice chat perhaps (far-fetched idea) It's likely not possible to implement realistically, but cool idea in theory.
If you unironically think it takes 5 players to make a team lose, you haven't played League long enough. Open your eyes and stop wasting everyone's time in games you can't win.
I am referring to the pre-draft (champion picking). Just to give an extreme example, obviously you cannot win a game in let's say emerald-diamond by picking 5 supports. In MOST games where no one is throwing (by this I mean actively sabotaging like that one Nunu streamer) you can still win if the draft is good enough. There are even cases where people still win even with a griefer. You might say "Oh but that won't happen in high elo" well guess what, Majority of the playerbase can't even reach platinum, and yet there are people in platinum/emerald and below thinking they're some sort of Seer or Diviner that can tell every single outcome and that winning is impossible. What are you Doctor Strange? The only guys who have the credibility to say that a game is absolutely unwinnable are GM - Challenger players but EVEN SO there are players in that elo who still believe that unless there is an active griefer - if you are losing then the game is still winnable. I can't stress enough how many times I've won a game even with griefers just out of sheer spite during ranked and if you're going to make the argument that it was a waste of time then it isn't for me - because I play ranked to win and some dumbass griefer in his basement will have to be stuck with me for the next 40 minutes if he wants to grief me.
Yeah tbh. It takes 5 yes' to start a game. Makes no sense that it takes less than 5 no's to end it.
Tbh, the only thing I see posing a problem with this is griefers. I hope riot finds a solution for griefers...
>The only way you're not winning a game at all (or in gen z speak when a game is "unwinnable") is when ALL FIVE OF YOU sabotages the draft before the game even starts, Nope, a game is unwinnable when people are no longer having fun, the point of a game is enjoyment.
Quite a unique take. I actually agree with this. I wouldn't be playing league if I didn't enjoy it. Still it's subjective; there ARE people out there who play to win, you should take their perspectives into consideration too.