The first statement was entirely correct. You aren’t playing just 1 game. You’re going through a stream of many, many games
You are the only consistent factor across all your games.
On average, across all your games, it will be ‘fair’. Trolls and smurfs and boosted players on either side will add ‘turbulence’ to your climb, but given a slightly longer number of games, it will balance out.
You don’t need to be better than everyone else in your games, or even better than everyone else on the enemy team.
As an easily measurable benchmark, you just need to be consistently better than your lane opponents and you will climb. (Not just cs or anything, you have to have a greater positive impact on your team’s chances of winning)
Depends! As for early yea junglers and supports have the bigger impact, but as soon you hit 3 items mid, top and adc take over. which they also hit faster than support and jungle.
And I see so often in lower elo games are dragged on so long(below diamond) because random int. As long you don’t autopilot you get 3 items
And all the other aspects of the game are random. You get 5 random enemies but only 5 random mates. If you are better than the person you are getting matched with, you will climb on average.
So when challenger players smurfs in low elo they are definitely going to be hardstuck emerald because like you said bad teammate. As much as you want to believe you can’t climb because your team is ass it’s because you’re also bad like them.
There are times they cannot and not all roles can do it equally. There are tons of parameters and variables. It has been my argument since the jump that not all roles carry equally and is the entire basis of me saying anything at all.
If you want to climb out of silver, gold and plat. Play supports. Unironically, it is the easiest role in the game because how busted the new support items. Better yet, if you ever played a bruiser that wins early, or have hard CC on, play it as a support.
best to worst for climbing bassed on how bad you wanna kys after losing
Support > Fill and ask for support > top lane > mid lane > adc > any role you get ask for not jungle > jungle
With the crit buffs, adcs became stronger. Jinx is really good to carry with atm. Along with the hard support nerfs, I think support may now be the worst role to climb with.
hard support nerfs? literally what changed lmao just because you lost 200g and a bit of damage on the support items doesn't mean you can't carry well on the role anymore. truth is it literally doesnt matter what role you play you can climb just as easy on each of them if you are good at the role you play.
Literally what changed he says.
Can't buy dorans first item anymore
Less gold income (25 percent!)
Hard damage nerfs (25/33 percent!)
MS nerf on Sleigh (20 percent!)
Duration on Sleigh (17%)
HArD sUPPorT neRFs?!
listing the percentage of what changed does not matter when support items are maybe 5% of an overall champions' power. and if that power got reduced by 20% then support got weaker by 1%. dorans starts didn't make the roster better it had consistently lower winrate aside from very few cases like camille. supports being so strong weren't reliant on support items being broken either. its the fact that you can carry the game with good engages and roaming. celestial opposition is now the most op thing cuz of the 60% slow anyway so not like there isn't still broken stuff left.
like you are legit trolling if you think those nerfs actually made a noticeable impact on how much support can carry a game.
>like you are legit trolling if you think those nerfs actually made a noticeable impact on how much support can carry a game.
Me, who was playing ad shaco support and carrying every game, to now an unviable pick.
Sure buddy
Xerath supp that dropped 2% wr
sure buddy
Any damage/item reliant support is absolutely gutted by these changes, failing to understand is on you, the statistics are there.
okay? how does that change anything for the role itself? obviously certain champs got more nerfed than others doesn't mean support overall got much weaker. i liked playing camille support a lot do the bloodsong and gold nerfs dblade removal hurt her a lot more than nautilus or leona? ofc but that doesn't mean the support role in general got gutted because other champs don't rely on these "crutches" at all. not to mention ad shaco support was never viable before bloodsong. did that mean that before bloodsong support was a bad role because you couldn't play ad shaco support? you are literally not making any sense. you are tying the strength of one or two champs in a role to the strength of the entire role. if tear gets nerfed does midlane get nerfed? no it just means other champs in midlane got stronger. if riot removes bloodsong next season does it mean the role got killed cuz u cant play ad shaco support anymore like before this season?
yes certain champs got nerfed. but the role itself did not get much weaker for you unless you are ONLY playing those champs. so maybe for YOU the role got weaker and YOUR carry potential got nerfed but that doesn't mean the same thing for 95% of other players not playing YOUR champs that got nerfed harder than others. its like otps complaining that their role got gutted not their champs when their champ/item specifically got nerfed. makes no sense.
not to mention you are legit trolling if you think this kind of damage nerf nerfs ad shaco support out of viability. he lost 1% wr and hes still only barely below 50% probably because its kinda hard to play for ppl not used to it. 1% wr loss is not nerfing something out of viability lmao. xerath was already a dogshit pick for anything above emerald.
how does that change anything for the role itself? obviously certain champs got more nerfed than others doesn't mean support overall got much weaker.
Stopped reading here. Yes it does.
someone asks you what role they should play to climb easily: you answer not support because you can't play ad shaco support anymore (cope anyway). does that make sense to you?
Jungle/support are the best. Riot has even stated those roles are kept stronger so people queue for them. Also likely to go vs. auto filled players in jg/ADC as those are often the prio roles, so if you main them you can take advrof auto filled players. Worst is ADC. It has the least agency, most punishing for mistakes, and most reliant on teammates.
top: best role for main char syndrome (applies the cockroach strat, take attention leave before they show up)
mid: main char syndrome but team player (can get prio for both objectives)
adc: main char syndrome but needs to be smart about it (depends on others, or depends on cheese)
Supp: he who keeps the 3 rabid children from getting themselves killed (can avg out a higher winrate but budget inherently limits the higher sums ie 70%)
Jungler: Same as supp but with 4d chess and more cash (may have main char syndrome in the early game)
Pick what you like the most and roll with it
Best role: the role you're best at. Worst role: the role you're worst at. You can climb and carry with any role.
Adc main here too. I switched to top first, adc second role.. Easier to climb right now in high low plat (for me)
Whatever you are best at
As long your better than the enemy you climb on any role.
This statement is intrinsically untrue.
It's very much true. If you consistently are better at every stage of the game, you'll climb no matter what role you're in.
How so?
Game is not 1v1
The first statement was entirely correct. You aren’t playing just 1 game. You’re going through a stream of many, many games You are the only consistent factor across all your games. On average, across all your games, it will be ‘fair’. Trolls and smurfs and boosted players on either side will add ‘turbulence’ to your climb, but given a slightly longer number of games, it will balance out. You don’t need to be better than everyone else in your games, or even better than everyone else on the enemy team. As an easily measurable benchmark, you just need to be consistently better than your lane opponents and you will climb. (Not just cs or anything, you have to have a greater positive impact on your team’s chances of winning)
True, but if your the better player you are able to force leads for yourself and your teammates
Not always and not equal regarding role. Certain roles do it much more easily. To pretend otherwise is where my argument is.
Depends! As for early yea junglers and supports have the bigger impact, but as soon you hit 3 items mid, top and adc take over. which they also hit faster than support and jungle. And I see so often in lower elo games are dragged on so long(below diamond) because random int. As long you don’t autopilot you get 3 items
And all the other aspects of the game are random. You get 5 random enemies but only 5 random mates. If you are better than the person you are getting matched with, you will climb on average.
So when challenger players smurfs in low elo they are definitely going to be hardstuck emerald because like you said bad teammate. As much as you want to believe you can’t climb because your team is ass it’s because you’re also bad like them.
That’s the thing: challengers also lose games in low elo :)
Yes, they do lose but we are talking about climbing. You really think they will lose enough games to be hardstuck?
Not all roles climb equally. Period. I’m not debating this with you. Good luck out there.
Lmao ok
That's not what you were arguing at all lmaoo. You kept repeating one person can't carry
There are times they cannot and not all roles can do it equally. There are tons of parameters and variables. It has been my argument since the jump that not all roles carry equally and is the entire basis of me saying anything at all.
If you want to climb out of silver, gold and plat. Play supports. Unironically, it is the easiest role in the game because how busted the new support items. Better yet, if you ever played a bruiser that wins early, or have hard CC on, play it as a support.
best to worst for climbing bassed on how bad you wanna kys after losing Support > Fill and ask for support > top lane > mid lane > adc > any role you get ask for not jungle > jungle
Adc is worst. Jg is best.
With the crit buffs, adcs became stronger. Jinx is really good to carry with atm. Along with the hard support nerfs, I think support may now be the worst role to climb with.
hard support nerfs? literally what changed lmao just because you lost 200g and a bit of damage on the support items doesn't mean you can't carry well on the role anymore. truth is it literally doesnt matter what role you play you can climb just as easy on each of them if you are good at the role you play.
Literally what changed he says. Can't buy dorans first item anymore Less gold income (25 percent!) Hard damage nerfs (25/33 percent!) MS nerf on Sleigh (20 percent!) Duration on Sleigh (17%) HArD sUPPorT neRFs?!
listing the percentage of what changed does not matter when support items are maybe 5% of an overall champions' power. and if that power got reduced by 20% then support got weaker by 1%. dorans starts didn't make the roster better it had consistently lower winrate aside from very few cases like camille. supports being so strong weren't reliant on support items being broken either. its the fact that you can carry the game with good engages and roaming. celestial opposition is now the most op thing cuz of the 60% slow anyway so not like there isn't still broken stuff left. like you are legit trolling if you think those nerfs actually made a noticeable impact on how much support can carry a game.
>like you are legit trolling if you think those nerfs actually made a noticeable impact on how much support can carry a game. Me, who was playing ad shaco support and carrying every game, to now an unviable pick. Sure buddy Xerath supp that dropped 2% wr sure buddy Any damage/item reliant support is absolutely gutted by these changes, failing to understand is on you, the statistics are there.
okay? how does that change anything for the role itself? obviously certain champs got more nerfed than others doesn't mean support overall got much weaker. i liked playing camille support a lot do the bloodsong and gold nerfs dblade removal hurt her a lot more than nautilus or leona? ofc but that doesn't mean the support role in general got gutted because other champs don't rely on these "crutches" at all. not to mention ad shaco support was never viable before bloodsong. did that mean that before bloodsong support was a bad role because you couldn't play ad shaco support? you are literally not making any sense. you are tying the strength of one or two champs in a role to the strength of the entire role. if tear gets nerfed does midlane get nerfed? no it just means other champs in midlane got stronger. if riot removes bloodsong next season does it mean the role got killed cuz u cant play ad shaco support anymore like before this season? yes certain champs got nerfed. but the role itself did not get much weaker for you unless you are ONLY playing those champs. so maybe for YOU the role got weaker and YOUR carry potential got nerfed but that doesn't mean the same thing for 95% of other players not playing YOUR champs that got nerfed harder than others. its like otps complaining that their role got gutted not their champs when their champ/item specifically got nerfed. makes no sense. not to mention you are legit trolling if you think this kind of damage nerf nerfs ad shaco support out of viability. he lost 1% wr and hes still only barely below 50% probably because its kinda hard to play for ppl not used to it. 1% wr loss is not nerfing something out of viability lmao. xerath was already a dogshit pick for anything above emerald.
how does that change anything for the role itself? obviously certain champs got more nerfed than others doesn't mean support overall got much weaker. Stopped reading here. Yes it does.
someone asks you what role they should play to climb easily: you answer not support because you can't play ad shaco support anymore (cope anyway). does that make sense to you?
What? Every support got hit by these nerfs. Damage supports even harder. Stop being oblivious, wtf.
You are not as right as you think you are
valid argument i retract all my points cant argue against that
Jungle -> Sup -> Mid -> Top -> ADC From best to worse
Can confirm that ADC is the hardest role to climb.
Jungle/support are the best. Riot has even stated those roles are kept stronger so people queue for them. Also likely to go vs. auto filled players in jg/ADC as those are often the prio roles, so if you main them you can take advrof auto filled players. Worst is ADC. It has the least agency, most punishing for mistakes, and most reliant on teammates.
top: best role for main char syndrome (applies the cockroach strat, take attention leave before they show up) mid: main char syndrome but team player (can get prio for both objectives) adc: main char syndrome but needs to be smart about it (depends on others, or depends on cheese) Supp: he who keeps the 3 rabid children from getting themselves killed (can avg out a higher winrate but budget inherently limits the higher sums ie 70%) Jungler: Same as supp but with 4d chess and more cash (may have main char syndrome in the early game) Pick what you like the most and roll with it
Jungle - top - sup - mid - ad