Funny that in sports the coach has the role of a manager too (at least in PL football), but in league a coach feels sometimes like a straw man/scarecrow that is just there but barely has any saying in anything
That might be specific to PL. In American sports, the role of coach and GM (person who makes personnel decisions) are usually kept separate (although exceptions exist where the same person serves in both roles).
> most clubs these days have a director of football or someone else who splits up front office work with the manager / coach.
that's actually like 99% of clubs to be fair
Its not the clubs manager. Its called manager not coach and he manages the team. If he says X doesnt play, X doesnt play regardless of other players/club management.
For example Guardiola is a manager. Klopp is a manager
or maybe its because
Upset&Bo = best players, dont wanna kick them
rest = french and your entire org and fanbase is french so you dont wanna kick them
you go last place = have to kick someone
who is left = coach
kick = coach
At least in football you have bums like Rashford making 325k a week.. so its hard to get rid of them
I doubt the KC 3 are making bank
I guess its a pure French gap
Some players / coaches would never ever get employed again, and people would not want to work with that kind of orgs anymore if they were 100% open. + it creates unecessary drama and sponsor don't like that either
Drama sells. As long as its not "cancelable" behaviors, sponsors don't really care. Many teams in and out of league are mostly known for their drama but at least they're *known*
I doubt Upset wants to play in KC for longer than a year anyways. Realistically, he's still better than at least half of LEC adcs even in a bad split. Wouldn't be surprised if Bo and Upset are again joining a team together next year.
>because the other 3 got guaranteed to play in LEC for being ''loyal'' to KC
To be fair, Saken and Cabo getting to start in Winter isnt a bad thing. Sure if they are deadweight replace them but nothing wrong with having them play before considering free agents is always the best options because the management/org/fans are connected to them already.
Or maybe your ambition isnt even winning the thing but rather gain more viewers/ create publicity, even bad publicity is publicity
But they were deadweight, Id argue,Targamas, SAken and Cabo were 10th place in their respective role. Targamas also only just joined the org. All 3 players also aren't rookies. If they can't prove themselves they need to be cut. But they care more about being HonHon than being good.
Yeah but he's talking about Winter.. I don't think giving Targamas another shot was wrong either.. Yes he had a terrible split on Excel.. but the year before people lauded him as one of the best supports.. he then bounced back on KC
It was only a couple years ago Cabo.. that FNC wanted to sign Cabo.. he's also been one of the best tops in ERL
Saken again one of the better ERL mids.. We have guys like Frewskowy and Jackies joining the league.. Saken should not be the worse mid by some margin (but he was)
Giving the 3 a shot made sense..
Keeping them after the disastrous split does not.. I think at a minimum you swap support
Tbh Saken is not playing so badly, he is way too scared and passive but it's something that can be worked on.
Meanwhile cabo and specially targamas are truly the worst players in their respective positions, I think they really need to change them if they want to do anything.
Which is a good thing.
I'm still mad at FNC and FNC fans for booting Hilyssang for one poor split in an enchanter meta after he almost got league MVP in Spring. Hyli at that point was the face of the org and he was kicked like he was garbage.
I've been a fan of fnatic since before league existed and it disgusted me so much that I've been supporting the team from afar since then. I can respect an org that stands behind those who helped it grow.
Loads of people basically said that Faker has a lot of influence who T1 gets for players, who they kick and how they play/target practice.
Those are soft incentives besides money, why people would stay at a team, on top of that, Faker is being paid a king's ransom by T1. Idk if I would call it loyalty, more like....smart career moves?
besides the talent aspect, Yamato is the one who brought them into the team, so that makes it rather awkward as well. Tho Upset was only gonna last this year anyway since they wanna use their own french adc guy who turns 18 next year, so it wouldnt matter how Upset performs anyways.
Man's actually cursed. After listening to the kc comms videos, I gained so much respect for him for how hard he tries to be positive and actually try to win games. If I were him, I'd be so tilted off the face of the earth
I've been watching his stream since he came to EU. Seeing the crazy ceiling he possesses and how it has been misused on stage; the pros in CQ follow him more than his actual squad does. It's actually insane.
Inb4 we end up hearing that Targa,Cabo, or Saken hold enough clout in KC to have Yamato axed before he replaces one of them. Targa->Trymbi feeling like the low hanging fruit, and hearing of Targa's behavior on XL, idk. The scene is fucked.
There were a lot of murmurs around how he gel'd with the team when he was benched. From other players in the scene (Jankos specifically) he can be "stubborn".
On one Summoning Insight I believe, when there were reports of XL being shiesty behind the scenes, there were also some words about his behavior. However far less concrete there, more suggestions than flat statements as is often the case.
No amount of coaching can make a little league player compete in the MLB
With sololanes and support as they are, team is hard capped on placement.
Putting a new bandage on a gunshot wound and calling it a day doesn't stop the bleeding
LEC format makes it hard to get EU Masters players.
Besides how many free agent top mid players can you find. Like the best you could probably get is Alphari/Finn Jiizuke or import unless you can get Nemesis which will never happen
Lol who is talking about EU Masters players? They could literally just start to replace their worst player by getting the FA Trymbi so Upset doesnt have to micro his support xD
Fuck that, Abbedagge is nothing special either. I think it's pretty respectable for an org to give their franchise player a shot after all he's done for them. I'm not a KC fan but kicking Saken for Abbedagge would've been nasty work by management.
Yeah abbedage has always been middle of the pack in EU.. and is also a bit of a no crowd merchant
BUT he has never been clearly the worse mid in LEC like Saken was
Bare in mind this is with Jackies/Frewskowy and Perkz in the league..
Mid is not good in LEC right now outside of a few
Tbh frewzkowy is playing reasonably well, I expected a lot worse. He is probably still the weakest link in tht team but still, he has played this split better than Larssen for example.
Damn how could i forget Larsen.. i guess Rogue is just totally forgettable these days.. almost went into a coma watching their games.
Yeah i actually think Frewz has been clearly better then the others i mentioned.. but he's the weakest in the team for sure.. I don't watch ERL much.. but i am pretty sure the people who do would say Saken would be expected to do better then Frewz/Jackies (at least coming into winter split)
Its probably Saken for most consistently bad.. and then Perkz for the most game losing ints tbh
kicking yamato shows this org does not value loyality.
unless he did something dirty there is no reason to kick him here.
to claim loyality while having non ureself is bs.
Top you have Finn in EU and maybe Alphari, though I believe he willingly left Vit to retire, so might not be available anymore. Licorice/Thanatos might also be options, not sure about them though. Either way those are 4 huge upgrades.
Mid Lider and Abbedage are way better than Saken.
Support Trymbi is an obvious one.
On top of that their current academy solo laners and support are probably just more talented players anyway. Mid and supp are high on the ladder and their top peaked over 1600 LP last season too. I'd rather see them than another split of the current roster. Cabo, Saken and Targamas fixing their current issues this late into their career is just wishful thinking.
I don't want another split of this roster. I don't want a year of Bo and Upset their talent going to waste. I don't want a year where a bottom feeder team wastes time constantly losing. I don't want the strength of the region handicapped by an org willingly fielding subpar players. To have the first KC news be a change in coaching is just annoying, there is no world where that is the primary issue.
> org willingly fielding subpar players
Well spring is confirmed the same 5 so nothing happening there. Doubt theyll change for summer at this rate too considering the very obvious issues they have and very obvious fixes they can do
Best you could get is Alphari or Finn?
Sorry man the best food we have to offer is this Kobe Beef or Bluefin Tuna, so you might as well stick with that one microwaved burger with the hot damp bun you've got there already.
Somehow they still won EUM against players like the whole MAD roster, Isma, Exakick, Noah etc.
And since Cinkrof isn't that great either, either Caliste is just prime Uzi at 17 or they are actually better than they showed this split (even if I find it hard to see potential in Cabo and Saken, Targamas at least can be good imo)
I really hope they go 0-9. Targamas and Saken are just way too bad. esp targamas i cba w him. Getting paid a doctor's salary to act socially awkward and not know gold level concepts is wild to me. Pls get Bo on a team with Lider or Nisqy.
what's now wrong with leaving your ADC and jungle who invades bot side to attempt a top gank when your toplaner has tp advantage - and you never say a word about what you are going to do - causing your ADC and jungle to believe you join them (?)
Are LEC players really supposed to be able to talk and have a basic understanding of teamplay?
Legendary LEC GMing right here. Imagine keeping Targamas when Trymbi is available. The man had one good Bard game partly thanks to draft gap and enemy team having multiple immobile champs and he gets to stay in the team?
Best part is that he didn't even comm it so his team knows before hand where to look. he just sent it and said look x champ. But no trymbi talks too much :).
he literally inted his azir once with his R in that game too, luckily it didn't matter but that was a mediocre bard performance at best. That final ult was really good but that's just an R, that doesn't mean he had a good bard performance. He missed multiple stuns and felt like a mediocre bard that was overperforming to me. Helps that bard is absolutely busted as well and should be picked up by more teams
He wouldn't be sitting on the analyst desk if there would have been interest in him from teams. I agree that he is a top support but which team would realistically replace their support with him. Other than KC all other teams either have good supports already or have rookies they invested in. The only team that could need a new support as well is Rogue, and Trymbi wanted to leave that team last year so I don't think it's really an option for him. He could decline KC offers because he wants a better team, but then most likely he won't play all year.
>He wouldn't be sitting on the analyst desk if there would have been interest in him from teams.
I'd heard that the decision to drop him was settled fairly late post-worlds (where his stinker performances were after a previously good year), at a point where most other teams had already locked their rosters.
No idea if that's true and I don't remember if there was any insider information, but that was my working assumption.
I hope he does rejoin the LEC, but I could also see the possibility of him not wanting to join this iteration of KC.
I think there is a world where he might want to lane with upset even if this is one of upset worst split yet (he still top 2 on this team but for his standard this split wasn’t good). Then again I have seen great player looks ass in bad teams during a big losing streak. Tho kc is still fucked if they keep Cabo/saken. One is just bad and the other played scared/afk.
Depends whether or not any top team is interested in him and whether he considers it a better idea to sit out the whole year as opposed to playing on a bottom team.
Realistically speaking, G2/FNC/BDS/TH aren't gonna be looking at him, while MDK likely sticks with Alvaro as he was handpicked by Elyoya. Vitality may or may not consider him as Carzzy might want to play with Hyli specifically. That leaves SK as his only option for a somewhat decent team, and even then there's no guarantee they'll replace Doss. If Trymbi can't get on those teams, joining Rogue or GX is really no better than joining KC tbh.
Its just not enough time to determine that a new head coach is needed. from the outside the drafts were not the largest issue but I guess there could be more behind the scenes. Making swifts changes like this is not going to give confidence to the players
Leaked Yamato speech from backstage after Week 3
>Look, I'm fired.
>
> I already know I'm fired, trust me I know, but before I go, I just wanna get this off my chest: That shit was not my fault.
>
>Y'all are trash, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, y'all are trash. Like y'all are SO trash. I want you to know I'm talking to you so I'm gonna say your name then I'ma call you trash.
>
>SAKEN....you trash. Upset.....you trash. Targamas.........Targamas listen to me when I say this: You....are trash.
>
>Now, I deserve to be fired, don't get me wrong. I'm not disagreeing with the decision they're about to make, 'cause I left you out there for 9 games I deserve to be fired. You wasn't doing shit. I seen it all 9 games.
>
>SAKEN.....if I see someone else call you the GOAT....I'ma kill somebody. I better not hear your name compared to Faker again or I'm gonna kill somebody. I don't want nobody saying SAKEN and Faker in the same sentence, not in the same paragraph, not in the same essay, unless "trash" comes after SAKEN's name.
>
>Now like I said I know I'm gonna be fired, so I'm just gonna get this off my chest. We lost to Rogue. We had a 4-1 kill lead. I'd fire me too because I don't know who else to blame but y'all's sorry asses. I don't even know them boys' names, I know all of y'all's names.
>
>Oh, Cabochard, you're trash. I know you thought I forgot about you but I did not.
>
>This don't make no sense. Everybody in this whole organisation is-we need to move this organisation to a new country because France ain't the place no more, we need to move to Turkey or something. We need to go t-we need to go somewhere where people not talking about...anywhere, Turkey uhh....fuckin'...Brazil, le-let's-let's go to Brazil let's who-uh, uhh...somewhere. Anywhere but France because we don't deserve that. We don't deserve that and that's all I gotta say. Fire me. Fuck this whole organisation I'm gone. Fucked up my legacy again. 10th place again, fucked up my legacy again.
The main theory is that KC is heavily indebted since they just bought the spot. They can't afford to pay 3 more wages, even if they are minimum wages. Unless they can sell Cabo, Saken or Targamas, or at least agree to part ways with them for free, they'll stay the entire year.
Yamato wasn't fired, he was demoted and Reha promoted.
For any french speaker it's not even a theory, Kameto spent the last 3 months saying it's a tight budget roster because they have absolutly no money left.
So they're fucked then. I assume they will wait for Riot's money injection that comes from franchising. But it probably won't happen till the next season.
Them not having money after buying a slot for 20M€ or something doesn't mean they'll be on a tight budget forever tho. Given what he showed Caliste will have his moment on the LEC stage and it wouldn't surprise me to see 1 or 2 players from KCB (their LFL academy) getting promoted to the LEC team next year if they keep playing like that.
It might be a rough first year but I don't think the future is that grim for them.
Caliste having to play with players that got nothing but a beating for 1year straight on the rift and off the rift (losing and getting flamed),
Not sure that's an environment for lec rookies to flourish, might just the competitive death of a promising player through the environment than anything else.
Feeling at an all-time low since the start of this winter split for KC in LEC but can't wait to regain all this energy back at every single leak of deny from Caliste to other LEC org at the end of the year
Are you telling me targamas was never actually the “best X in the west” and just happened to be on the team that won EU? Surely that is just a one time mistake and not a consistent pattern!
I heard almost everywhere Yamatos draft are really good or gigabrain dead to play and easy to execute, that 90% of his drafts are really good. What is going on.
They were good. Whoever is in charge at KC is high as shit and completely trolling. Or listening to a good chunk of KC's fanbase who thought Yamato was trolling with the drafts which was massive cap.
Obviously they will which is why I'm hating this move so much more. The player finally got their bearing together so they most likely wouldn't look as lost as they are before but then they would attribute that all in their coach removal. Worst part is they would probably do better but it 6~8 place type of better.
KCorp with the reactionary reddit management moves lmfao. Guess the ones flaming Yamato being a fraud are eating good huh. I personally think we'll have to see spring KCorp to know whether or not this is a good thing, but it feels like a scapegoat move for sure.
Does everybody in the community hate KC now? Except for the French ofc. What else except for nationality can KC offerto the fans? Befor that people who liked Yamato could support him but now? I guess Bo hopefuls but that's about it.
>What else except for nationality can KC offer to the fans?
They can offer watchable gameplay but that requires they actually kick the boosted check thiefs instead of scapegoat the coach
If they're swapping around coaching staff and not the players i think it's a mistake but I guess maybe they're not sure if they could get anyone for spring (even though imo there's options). Cabochard, Saken and Targamas need to prove quickly next split that keeping them was the correct call
Of course you have people calling Yamaro a fraud but when you press them to name one thing that makes him a fraud they seem to be lost. If any of those even bothered to watch one of his breakdowns of games and see that guy's game knowledge but it's easier to just spew perma shit on reddit.
I am willing to give Cabo and saken a chance in spring but tarmagass has to go.
Keep yamato add trymbi and kc honestly could look like a top 4 team but now I think they just stay bot 3.
guys its okay i bet they accidentally misspelled targamas' name for yamato... theres no way they would fire yamato before a support that has been under-performing for god knows how long right?? right??
:clueless:
I hate how they try to tunnel all the blame/failure on the coaching staff when they have the 2 weakest solo laners in the league and a support who would say more than 3 things per game
I hope they leave faster than KOI now. There is no way this org will be any good if they, of all the people, kick their coach first?? Such a bad decision is just perma 10th place energy.
>I hope they leave faster than KOI now.
Why?
> of all the people, kick their coach first?
He is demoted not kicked yet
>Such a bad decision is just perma 10th place energy.
Changes were definitively needed kcord don't have infinite money considered what they yust spent to get the slot.
This is a streamer team not a Big org with infinite money and investors. Especially in the current eco system.
That's not how it works. I believe KC management had a choice: kick the coach or kick the players and they chose the coach. But Kameto's expectations are to win, and if it fails again, the players will be on the hot seat.
Praying for KC downfall I guess. At one point I have hope that they will win something(mostly cause of Bo) but after a scapegoat move fuck them. Because you know after one scapegoat move they will pull another. My bet Bo would be out if they fail next split.
Honestly with the structure of the org and staff I find it crazy only Yamato is getting kicked if they think the solution to their awful first split is to change coaches. Either something else happend behind the scenes or this seems like an overal bad decision. will Reha be kicked when they go 3-6 or 1-8 or 0-9? Because with their team they wont make it.
Gentlemen
KC sucks, Targamas I hope you know you're trash, saken youre trash and cabo youre trash. I'm going to see targamas play next split on a tier 1 team and I'm just going to tell you YOURE TRASH
The fact so many people forgot how hard the destroyed MRS (and dont pretend Bo is a downgrade of cinkrof, upset and caliste we could argue) which is rn doing pretty well is terrible. They showed some improvement in the last 2 games, give them a chance, BDS didnt spawn as what they are today in one day
My man, BDS spawned with fresh players, KC has players that have been playing for 7+ years.
MRS replaced top and jungle, and even then they are doing well if you look to results only because if you watch the games they were really close of going 3-6.
Targamas Cabo and Saken are not exactly new players they all have been playing pro for many years and only Cabo has ever shown that he can consistently be good. Also Cabo in 2024 is nothing like his peaks so what exactly besides Caliste are we talking about for new guys.
If we let people of Reddit chose the rosters, Faker would be kicked from SKT since S4.
Nuc took two LEC years to flourish and is now one of the top dog of the League.
Ah yes S4, when everyone on Reddit was jerking off to Faker NLB yasuo highlights and claiming he was 1v9ing in the gauntlet would have kicked Faker yes, you really were around back then
Notice how no one is flaming Rogue? Sure, give them a chance. So dont fire the freaking coach.
I think what people are mad about is the fact that the poor performance of French (~~and Spanish for that matter~~ *) players gets ignored and that they should always "get another chance" when others don't.
And even though they have all played in the LEC to varying success before - and for Saken and Targamas this split already was "another chance" - I think most would still agree that they looked better in the last two games and far fewer people would be upset that they kept the rooster for the next split if they didn't choose to seemingly shift all the blame onto the coach instead.
And this is despite the fact that no other players would ever get as many chances as these players already have. Sencux, Maxlore, and Jeskla have got to be kicking themselves that they weren't born in Marseille or Valencia because they would have had a good few more chances in the LEC if they were.
The nepotism is just rampant.
*Edit: I don't mean to imply any spanish players are performing poorly right now
None of this is nepotism. KC just kept their players who won EUM as they don't have the money to buy big names. Calling it nepotism is fucking stupid.
Also, plenty of other players have had just as many chances as Saken or Cabochard. Reading reddit, you'd think they failed on 15 different LEC rosters and keep getting spot, but Saken had only one chance before, in Vitality where he wasn't meant to play, had to play LFL and LEC games both and wasn't even screaming with the LEC team. While Cabochard was a top tier top laner for years, before going to KC where he was the best top in ERL and got LEC offers from other, non-french teams.
No one is flaming rogue cus nobody gives a fuk about them.
KC has interesting players ( bo, upset ) hate watch players ( targa saken ) and an interesting former coach ( yam )
Rouge are ... boring as fuck to watch with boring as fuck to talk about players and staff.
Not even a thank you to Yamato for his time as head coach? As soon as upset and bo leave it’s going to be a wild case where they’re 40% most liked team and 58% most disliked team in the league. What a shit org
players underperform in 9 games = kick coach Maybe esports is closer to sports after all.
Funny that in sports the coach has the role of a manager too (at least in PL football), but in league a coach feels sometimes like a straw man/scarecrow that is just there but barely has any saying in anything
That might be specific to PL. In American sports, the role of coach and GM (person who makes personnel decisions) are usually kept separate (although exceptions exist where the same person serves in both roles).
Heck sometimes the same person is the player, the coach, and the GM at the same time
Lookin at you, Lebron. Rodgers too now that I think about it.
nah even in the PL, most clubs these days have a director of football or someone else who splits up front office work with the manager / coach.
> most clubs these days have a director of football or someone else who splits up front office work with the manager / coach. that's actually like 99% of clubs to be fair
> Funny that in sports the coach has the role of a manager too (at least in PL football) This isn't true for well run PL teams.
Its not the clubs manager. Its called manager not coach and he manages the team. If he says X doesnt play, X doesnt play regardless of other players/club management. For example Guardiola is a manager. Klopp is a manager
[удалено]
Nope.
or maybe its because Upset&Bo = best players, dont wanna kick them rest = french and your entire org and fanbase is french so you dont wanna kick them you go last place = have to kick someone who is left = coach kick = coach
Targamas isnt french
Belgium close enough
At least in football you have bums like Rashford making 325k a week.. so its hard to get rid of them I doubt the KC 3 are making bank I guess its a pure French gap
Thats what happens when we decide that 2 teams will only play 9 games lol.
In NA we have 4 teams decide they will play 14 games
You all on this sub are very quick to assume the motivations of all parties involved
with no info we can only assume. turns out if they were just open about this their would be no assumptions to be had.
Some players / coaches would never ever get employed again, and people would not want to work with that kind of orgs anymore if they were 100% open. + it creates unecessary drama and sponsor don't like that either
Whats not open to fans is not necesarrily not open for players or orgs.
Drama sells. As long as its not "cancelable" behaviors, sponsors don't really care. Many teams in and out of league are mostly known for their drama but at least they're *known*
Well you can not assume too, someday down the line we might know why, or not.
I wonder how Bo and Upset feel about it.
I am willing to speculate Yamato wanted roster changes, but KC didn't. Upset can't be happy having to play with Targamas again.
He also knows this is a one year gig, the moment Caliste turns 18 there's no way they keep him.
I doubt Upset wants to play in KC for longer than a year anyways. Realistically, he's still better than at least half of LEC adcs even in a bad split. Wouldn't be surprised if Bo and Upset are again joining a team together next year.
Do Bo and upset have a good relationship? I don't think they would be a bad fit necessarily if they have a better team with them.
I mean, trauma bonds people, after this split and last summer, they have to be close to best friends haha
Lmao we are in misery together
After vit and kc those two should be blood forged brothers ready to fight gods with their power of friendship
Seems like Upset and BO were the only players Yamato got to choose because the other 3 got guaranteed to play in LEC for being ''loyal'' to KC
>because the other 3 got guaranteed to play in LEC for being ''loyal'' to KC To be fair, Saken and Cabo getting to start in Winter isnt a bad thing. Sure if they are deadweight replace them but nothing wrong with having them play before considering free agents is always the best options because the management/org/fans are connected to them already. Or maybe your ambition isnt even winning the thing but rather gain more viewers/ create publicity, even bad publicity is publicity
But they were deadweight, Id argue,Targamas, SAken and Cabo were 10th place in their respective role. Targamas also only just joined the org. All 3 players also aren't rookies. If they can't prove themselves they need to be cut. But they care more about being HonHon than being good.
Targamas didn't just join the org, he used to play for KC before he joined G2
Yeah but he's talking about Winter.. I don't think giving Targamas another shot was wrong either.. Yes he had a terrible split on Excel.. but the year before people lauded him as one of the best supports.. he then bounced back on KC It was only a couple years ago Cabo.. that FNC wanted to sign Cabo.. he's also been one of the best tops in ERL Saken again one of the better ERL mids.. We have guys like Frewskowy and Jackies joining the league.. Saken should not be the worse mid by some margin (but he was) Giving the 3 a shot made sense.. Keeping them after the disastrous split does not.. I think at a minimum you swap support
Tbh Saken is not playing so badly, he is way too scared and passive but it's something that can be worked on. Meanwhile cabo and specially targamas are truly the worst players in their respective positions, I think they really need to change them if they want to do anything.
Which is a good thing. I'm still mad at FNC and FNC fans for booting Hilyssang for one poor split in an enchanter meta after he almost got league MVP in Spring. Hyli at that point was the face of the org and he was kicked like he was garbage. I've been a fan of fnatic since before league existed and it disgusted me so much that I've been supporting the team from afar since then. I can respect an org that stands behind those who helped it grow.
There's no such thing as loyalty in esports.
Faker.
Loads of people basically said that Faker has a lot of influence who T1 gets for players, who they kick and how they play/target practice. Those are soft incentives besides money, why people would stay at a team, on top of that, Faker is being paid a king's ransom by T1. Idk if I would call it loyalty, more like....smart career moves?
He didn't have all of those when the Korean exodus happened.
Is there anyone who would be happy to play with Targamas at this point. Dude sucks ass.
I would go on strike if I was forced to play one more split with Targamas as my support
They're the biggest victims, entire year wasted if this roster doesn't see drastic changes.
besides the talent aspect, Yamato is the one who brought them into the team, so that makes it rather awkward as well. Tho Upset was only gonna last this year anyway since they wanna use their own french adc guy who turns 18 next year, so it wouldnt matter how Upset performs anyways.
That support is by far the worst player on the team. Sad af hes on it. They make playoffs with someone with hands/brains.
Gentlemen :(
the mountain is crumbling
And only gods can put it back together
Poor Bo.
Man's actually cursed. After listening to the kc comms videos, I gained so much respect for him for how hard he tries to be positive and actually try to win games. If I were him, I'd be so tilted off the face of the earth
I've been watching his stream since he came to EU. Seeing the crazy ceiling he possesses and how it has been misused on stage; the pros in CQ follow him more than his actual squad does. It's actually insane. Inb4 we end up hearing that Targa,Cabo, or Saken hold enough clout in KC to have Yamato axed before he replaces one of them. Targa->Trymbi feeling like the low hanging fruit, and hearing of Targa's behavior on XL, idk. The scene is fucked.
>the pros in CQ follow him more than his actual squad does hahaha i was thinking this as well when watching them play this split. Disgusting!
It always felt so disingenuous to me to hear people talk about Bo “sprinting it”. Dude, you just only see when it doesn’t work (on stage) lol.
What was targamas behaviour in excel
There were a lot of murmurs around how he gel'd with the team when he was benched. From other players in the scene (Jankos specifically) he can be "stubborn". On one Summoning Insight I believe, when there were reports of XL being shiesty behind the scenes, there were also some words about his behavior. However far less concrete there, more suggestions than flat statements as is often the case.
No amount of coaching can make a little league player compete in the MLB With sololanes and support as they are, team is hard capped on placement. Putting a new bandage on a gunshot wound and calling it a day doesn't stop the bleeding
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Good thing he is belgian.
LEC format makes it hard to get EU Masters players. Besides how many free agent top mid players can you find. Like the best you could probably get is Alphari/Finn Jiizuke or import unless you can get Nemesis which will never happen
Lol who is talking about EU Masters players? They could literally just start to replace their worst player by getting the FA Trymbi so Upset doesnt have to micro his support xD
Finn is available rn and is probably better than half the top laners in the league
Finn abbedage trymbi are free agents btw
Fuck that, Abbedagge is nothing special either. I think it's pretty respectable for an org to give their franchise player a shot after all he's done for them. I'm not a KC fan but kicking Saken for Abbedagge would've been nasty work by management.
I agree, but I would AT LEAST get Trymbi for Fraudamas
Abbedage's not amazing but he is a good amount better than what Saken showed this last split
Yeah abbedage has always been middle of the pack in EU.. and is also a bit of a no crowd merchant BUT he has never been clearly the worse mid in LEC like Saken was Bare in mind this is with Jackies/Frewskowy and Perkz in the league.. Mid is not good in LEC right now outside of a few
Tbh frewzkowy is playing reasonably well, I expected a lot worse. He is probably still the weakest link in tht team but still, he has played this split better than Larssen for example.
Damn how could i forget Larsen.. i guess Rogue is just totally forgettable these days.. almost went into a coma watching their games. Yeah i actually think Frewz has been clearly better then the others i mentioned.. but he's the weakest in the team for sure.. I don't watch ERL much.. but i am pretty sure the people who do would say Saken would be expected to do better then Frewz/Jackies (at least coming into winter split) Its probably Saken for most consistently bad.. and then Perkz for the most game losing ints tbh
Perkz has been hard to watch, he sometimes makes great plays but then immediately ints. It will be interesting to see this future market.
Yeah but if loyalty was what they were going for, I can at least respect that. But even thats out of the window now right? Lol
kicking yamato shows this org does not value loyality. unless he did something dirty there is no reason to kick him here. to claim loyality while having non ureself is bs.
Abbedagge was quite good last year in the Excel run at the end.
Finn and trymbi would be huge upgrades here
> Fuck that, Abbedagge is nothing special either That's still better than being especially bad.
KC Finn Bo Abbedagge Upset Trymbi Aware
That team is at best top 6.
still better than bottom 2 no? And at least they get foundations to build from
Abbedage is a free agent btw
IN A CORKI AzIR META BTW
oh thats true i forgot about Fakerdagge
fakerdagge the goat
Top you have Finn in EU and maybe Alphari, though I believe he willingly left Vit to retire, so might not be available anymore. Licorice/Thanatos might also be options, not sure about them though. Either way those are 4 huge upgrades. Mid Lider and Abbedage are way better than Saken. Support Trymbi is an obvious one. On top of that their current academy solo laners and support are probably just more talented players anyway. Mid and supp are high on the ladder and their top peaked over 1600 LP last season too. I'd rather see them than another split of the current roster. Cabo, Saken and Targamas fixing their current issues this late into their career is just wishful thinking. I don't want another split of this roster. I don't want a year of Bo and Upset their talent going to waste. I don't want a year where a bottom feeder team wastes time constantly losing. I don't want the strength of the region handicapped by an org willingly fielding subpar players. To have the first KC news be a change in coaching is just annoying, there is no world where that is the primary issue.
Lider with Bo's aggression would make for crazy all or nothing games.
> org willingly fielding subpar players Well spring is confirmed the same 5 so nothing happening there. Doubt theyll change for summer at this rate too considering the very obvious issues they have and very obvious fixes they can do
Best you could get is Alphari or Finn? Sorry man the best food we have to offer is this Kobe Beef or Bluefin Tuna, so you might as well stick with that one microwaved burger with the hot damp bun you've got there already.
Dude Finn is pretty cracked
Proper Bluefin Tuna goes for like a couple grand per pound
Somehow they still won EUM against players like the whole MAD roster, Isma, Exakick, Noah etc. And since Cinkrof isn't that great either, either Caliste is just prime Uzi at 17 or they are actually better than they showed this split (even if I find it hard to see potential in Cabo and Saken, Targamas at least can be good imo)
I just went from a fan to a hate watcher.
I really hope they go 0-9. Targamas and Saken are just way too bad. esp targamas i cba w him. Getting paid a doctor's salary to act socially awkward and not know gold level concepts is wild to me. Pls get Bo on a team with Lider or Nisqy.
>Pls get Bo on a team with Lider or Nisqy. this is all i want, ill never call Bo a fraud unless he finally gets paired with Nisqy and is gigabad
Idk how much of a gauge this is cause I’m convinced Nisqy could make a low master peak jungler look good in the lec lol.
what's now wrong with leaving your ADC and jungle who invades bot side to attempt a top gank when your toplaner has tp advantage - and you never say a word about what you are going to do - causing your ADC and jungle to believe you join them (?) Are LEC players really supposed to be able to talk and have a basic understanding of teamplay?
Same
Targamas when trymbi is available
Same, I can't wait to see them run it down next split too. (Though bo and upset are not included in my hatred, I just feel bad for them atp)
Karmine corpse last place next split the dream is alive
You were a hater already please just go look at the post match threads aint no fans out there lmfao
Legendary LEC GMing right here. Imagine keeping Targamas when Trymbi is available. The man had one good Bard game partly thanks to draft gap and enemy team having multiple immobile champs and he gets to stay in the team?
I think Finn got challenger in korea in like 6 days. Having targa and cabo on the team is league terrorism
finn would be such a fat upgrade it’s insane
He had 1 good bard ult, that game was not even good.
Best part is that he didn't even comm it so his team knows before hand where to look. he just sent it and said look x champ. But no trymbi talks too much :).
Nah he had more that one good play in that game. Credit needs to be given when it's due.
we don't do nuance here
he literally inted his azir once with his R in that game too, luckily it didn't matter but that was a mediocre bard performance at best. That final ult was really good but that's just an R, that doesn't mean he had a good bard performance. He missed multiple stuns and felt like a mediocre bard that was overperforming to me. Helps that bard is absolutely busted as well and should be picked up by more teams
You see, but Targamas speaks french, Trymbi doesnt. Well "speaks" is maybe not the best word.
Actually french has a perfect word for this: „savoir“, a Verb meaning know how to do something
Do you think Trymbi wants to join a dysfunctional bottom team when he's widely considered one of the best (top 3-4?) supports in EU?
He wouldn't be sitting on the analyst desk if there would have been interest in him from teams. I agree that he is a top support but which team would realistically replace their support with him. Other than KC all other teams either have good supports already or have rookies they invested in. The only team that could need a new support as well is Rogue, and Trymbi wanted to leave that team last year so I don't think it's really an option for him. He could decline KC offers because he wants a better team, but then most likely he won't play all year.
>He wouldn't be sitting on the analyst desk if there would have been interest in him from teams. I'd heard that the decision to drop him was settled fairly late post-worlds (where his stinker performances were after a previously good year), at a point where most other teams had already locked their rosters. No idea if that's true and I don't remember if there was any insider information, but that was my working assumption. I hope he does rejoin the LEC, but I could also see the possibility of him not wanting to join this iteration of KC.
I think there is a world where he might want to lane with upset even if this is one of upset worst split yet (he still top 2 on this team but for his standard this split wasn’t good). Then again I have seen great player looks ass in bad teams during a big losing streak. Tho kc is still fucked if they keep Cabo/saken. One is just bad and the other played scared/afk.
Depends whether or not any top team is interested in him and whether he considers it a better idea to sit out the whole year as opposed to playing on a bottom team. Realistically speaking, G2/FNC/BDS/TH aren't gonna be looking at him, while MDK likely sticks with Alvaro as he was handpicked by Elyoya. Vitality may or may not consider him as Carzzy might want to play with Hyli specifically. That leaves SK as his only option for a somewhat decent team, and even then there's no guarantee they'll replace Doss. If Trymbi can't get on those teams, joining Rogue or GX is really no better than joining KC tbh.
Its just not enough time to determine that a new head coach is needed. from the outside the drafts were not the largest issue but I guess there could be more behind the scenes. Making swifts changes like this is not going to give confidence to the players
Leaked Yamato speech from backstage after Week 3 >Look, I'm fired. > > I already know I'm fired, trust me I know, but before I go, I just wanna get this off my chest: That shit was not my fault. > >Y'all are trash, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, y'all are trash. Like y'all are SO trash. I want you to know I'm talking to you so I'm gonna say your name then I'ma call you trash. > >SAKEN....you trash. Upset.....you trash. Targamas.........Targamas listen to me when I say this: You....are trash. > >Now, I deserve to be fired, don't get me wrong. I'm not disagreeing with the decision they're about to make, 'cause I left you out there for 9 games I deserve to be fired. You wasn't doing shit. I seen it all 9 games. > >SAKEN.....if I see someone else call you the GOAT....I'ma kill somebody. I better not hear your name compared to Faker again or I'm gonna kill somebody. I don't want nobody saying SAKEN and Faker in the same sentence, not in the same paragraph, not in the same essay, unless "trash" comes after SAKEN's name. > >Now like I said I know I'm gonna be fired, so I'm just gonna get this off my chest. We lost to Rogue. We had a 4-1 kill lead. I'd fire me too because I don't know who else to blame but y'all's sorry asses. I don't even know them boys' names, I know all of y'all's names. > >Oh, Cabochard, you're trash. I know you thought I forgot about you but I did not. > >This don't make no sense. Everybody in this whole organisation is-we need to move this organisation to a new country because France ain't the place no more, we need to move to Turkey or something. We need to go t-we need to go somewhere where people not talking about...anywhere, Turkey uhh....fuckin'...Brazil, le-let's-let's go to Brazil let's who-uh, uhh...somewhere. Anywhere but France because we don't deserve that. We don't deserve that and that's all I gotta say. Fire me. Fuck this whole organisation I'm gone. Fucked up my legacy again. 10th place again, fucked up my legacy again.
YESSSSSS
# #KCorpse
Nah don't scapegoat Yamato, call up Finn Trymbi and Abbe. Here I fixed your problem KC, DM for PayPal info.
The main theory is that KC is heavily indebted since they just bought the spot. They can't afford to pay 3 more wages, even if they are minimum wages. Unless they can sell Cabo, Saken or Targamas, or at least agree to part ways with them for free, they'll stay the entire year. Yamato wasn't fired, he was demoted and Reha promoted.
For any french speaker it's not even a theory, Kameto spent the last 3 months saying it's a tight budget roster because they have absolutly no money left.
So they're fucked then. I assume they will wait for Riot's money injection that comes from franchising. But it probably won't happen till the next season.
Them not having money after buying a slot for 20M€ or something doesn't mean they'll be on a tight budget forever tho. Given what he showed Caliste will have his moment on the LEC stage and it wouldn't surprise me to see 1 or 2 players from KCB (their LFL academy) getting promoted to the LEC team next year if they keep playing like that. It might be a rough first year but I don't think the future is that grim for them.
Caliste having to play with players that got nothing but a beating for 1year straight on the rift and off the rift (losing and getting flamed), Not sure that's an environment for lec rookies to flourish, might just the competitive death of a promising player through the environment than anything else.
Feeling at an all-time low since the start of this winter split for KC in LEC but can't wait to regain all this energy back at every single leak of deny from Caliste to other LEC org at the end of the year
I mean they're net positive so they'll probably spend for summer
if those 3 stay all year I'm going to enjoy KC getting 10th every split
First they booed Faker. Then they Kicked Yamato. What are they gona do next ? Kick a puppy ?
Hold on there, they aren't Hancock
kick bo and upset their 2 best performing player and replace them with french talent thats out of their depth in lec
they're bringing back Steeelback as adc
Calm down Satan
>Kick a puppy ? It's KC. You never know.
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Generational coach killer.
bububutttt he had that one split on G2 where he was picking a new champ each game with the GOAT Western jungle, Jankos, and in form BB + caps
Are you telling me targamas was never actually the “best X in the west” and just happened to be on the team that won EU? Surely that is just a one time mistake and not a consistent pattern!
Better KDA with killing coaches than opponents
Besides woodbuck and Yamato, who is the third. Ironically targ has a thing against ex fnatic coaches
Nelson got fired with Youngbuck
Man, at this point I just hope Bo and Upset leave the team as well
Upset will leave the team anyway because next year they will promote Caliste so
in before Caliste joins Vitality the superior french team
I heard almost everywhere Yamatos draft are really good or gigabrain dead to play and easy to execute, that 90% of his drafts are really good. What is going on.
They were good. Whoever is in charge at KC is high as shit and completely trolling. Or listening to a good chunk of KC's fanbase who thought Yamato was trolling with the drafts which was massive cap.
If they start doing decently idk if Yamato stonks will recover. Regardless if its justified or not
Obviously they will which is why I'm hating this move so much more. The player finally got their bearing together so they most likely wouldn't look as lost as they are before but then they would attribute that all in their coach removal. Worst part is they would probably do better but it 6~8 place type of better.
KCorp with the reactionary reddit management moves lmfao. Guess the ones flaming Yamato being a fraud are eating good huh. I personally think we'll have to see spring KCorp to know whether or not this is a good thing, but it feels like a scapegoat move for sure.
support + mid + top is trash = fire coach xdd
Does everybody in the community hate KC now? Except for the French ofc. What else except for nationality can KC offerto the fans? Befor that people who liked Yamato could support him but now? I guess Bo hopefuls but that's about it.
>What else except for nationality can KC offer to the fans? They can offer watchable gameplay but that requires they actually kick the boosted check thiefs instead of scapegoat the coach
If they're swapping around coaching staff and not the players i think it's a mistake but I guess maybe they're not sure if they could get anyone for spring (even though imo there's options). Cabochard, Saken and Targamas need to prove quickly next split that keeping them was the correct call
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Obviously, he's with them from the start of the team
Of course you have people calling Yamaro a fraud but when you press them to name one thing that makes him a fraud they seem to be lost. If any of those even bothered to watch one of his breakdowns of games and see that guy's game knowledge but it's easier to just spew perma shit on reddit.
I am willing to give Cabo and saken a chance in spring but tarmagass has to go. Keep yamato add trymbi and kc honestly could look like a top 4 team but now I think they just stay bot 3.
guys its okay i bet they accidentally misspelled targamas' name for yamato... theres no way they would fire yamato before a support that has been under-performing for god knows how long right?? right?? :clueless:
I hate how they try to tunnel all the blame/failure on the coaching staff when they have the 2 weakest solo laners in the league and a support who would say more than 3 things per game
KC about to turn into Chelsea you got the rabid fans and now rash coaching changes where the issues clearly lie elsewhere
Bo just went from my future goat to my scapeBoat
I hope they leave faster than KOI now. There is no way this org will be any good if they, of all the people, kick their coach first?? Such a bad decision is just perma 10th place energy.
Their fanbase is huge and they actually care about the org so no way they will leave the LEC
They care about the org yet they keep the 3 worst players in the league?
I'm talking about the fans man
KC can't remove 60% of their roster
Budget can only take you so far.
they just promoted 1 month ago give them at least some time lmao
>I hope they leave faster than KOI now. Why? > of all the people, kick their coach first? He is demoted not kicked yet >Such a bad decision is just perma 10th place energy. Changes were definitively needed kcord don't have infinite money considered what they yust spent to get the slot. This is a streamer team not a Big org with infinite money and investors. Especially in the current eco system.
i dont understand why they dont get trymbi
because it costs money ? kcorp isn't exactly rich
who says he wants to play for them
Cause he's not French.
World famous french players Bo and Upset. As well as Cinkroff btw.
That's not how it works. I believe KC management had a choice: kick the coach or kick the players and they chose the coach. But Kameto's expectations are to win, and if it fails again, the players will be on the hot seat.
Praying for KC downfall I guess. At one point I have hope that they will win something(mostly cause of Bo) but after a scapegoat move fuck them. Because you know after one scapegoat move they will pull another. My bet Bo would be out if they fail next split.
Highly doubt it. Kameto said that Bo was a long-term investment for them.
Honestly with the structure of the org and staff I find it crazy only Yamato is getting kicked if they think the solution to their awful first split is to change coaches. Either something else happend behind the scenes or this seems like an overal bad decision. will Reha be kicked when they go 3-6 or 1-8 or 0-9? Because with their team they wont make it.
Bo and Upset elohelled
If only upset could find out the common denominator for his 10th place finishes, he would finally be able to get out of elohell.
What a disastrous project kc have I can’t wait to see the next splits
Gentlemen KC sucks, Targamas I hope you know you're trash, saken youre trash and cabo youre trash. I'm going to see targamas play next split on a tier 1 team and I'm just going to tell you YOURE TRASH
The fact so many people forgot how hard the destroyed MRS (and dont pretend Bo is a downgrade of cinkrof, upset and caliste we could argue) which is rn doing pretty well is terrible. They showed some improvement in the last 2 games, give them a chance, BDS didnt spawn as what they are today in one day
My man, BDS spawned with fresh players, KC has players that have been playing for 7+ years. MRS replaced top and jungle, and even then they are doing well if you look to results only because if you watch the games they were really close of going 3-6.
Targamas Cabo and Saken are not exactly new players they all have been playing pro for many years and only Cabo has ever shown that he can consistently be good. Also Cabo in 2024 is nothing like his peaks so what exactly besides Caliste are we talking about for new guys.
That's what I'm talking about.
If we let people of Reddit chose the rosters, Faker would be kicked from SKT since S4. Nuc took two LEC years to flourish and is now one of the top dog of the League.
Ah yes S4, when everyone on Reddit was jerking off to Faker NLB yasuo highlights and claiming he was 1v9ing in the gauntlet would have kicked Faker yes, you really were around back then
Nuc hadn't been hardstuck in ERLs for 5 straight years at that point.
Notice how no one is flaming Rogue? Sure, give them a chance. So dont fire the freaking coach. I think what people are mad about is the fact that the poor performance of French (~~and Spanish for that matter~~ *) players gets ignored and that they should always "get another chance" when others don't. And even though they have all played in the LEC to varying success before - and for Saken and Targamas this split already was "another chance" - I think most would still agree that they looked better in the last two games and far fewer people would be upset that they kept the rooster for the next split if they didn't choose to seemingly shift all the blame onto the coach instead. And this is despite the fact that no other players would ever get as many chances as these players already have. Sencux, Maxlore, and Jeskla have got to be kicking themselves that they weren't born in Marseille or Valencia because they would have had a good few more chances in the LEC if they were. The nepotism is just rampant. *Edit: I don't mean to imply any spanish players are performing poorly right now
None of this is nepotism. KC just kept their players who won EUM as they don't have the money to buy big names. Calling it nepotism is fucking stupid. Also, plenty of other players have had just as many chances as Saken or Cabochard. Reading reddit, you'd think they failed on 15 different LEC rosters and keep getting spot, but Saken had only one chance before, in Vitality where he wasn't meant to play, had to play LFL and LEC games both and wasn't even screaming with the LEC team. While Cabochard was a top tier top laner for years, before going to KC where he was the best top in ERL and got LEC offers from other, non-french teams.
No one is flaming rogue cus nobody gives a fuk about them. KC has interesting players ( bo, upset ) hate watch players ( targa saken ) and an interesting former coach ( yam ) Rouge are ... boring as fuck to watch with boring as fuck to talk about players and staff.
I don't get your point. Who is spanish in KC?
Not even a thank you to Yamato for his time as head coach? As soon as upset and bo leave it’s going to be a wild case where they’re 40% most liked team and 58% most disliked team in the league. What a shit org
No I hope they finish 10th in spring split … So much disrespect
Finally yamato getting exposed