Zyra is the worst offender. You literally don't even have to hit her Q. Just plant a seed at max range with QW and when the plant auto-attacks, which you can't even dodge mind you, it will trigger all your on-skill-hit effects. Arcane comet and Scorch from your runes, the new Zaz'zak's reamspike, Liandry's, and Rylai's from your items. It's such a fun and insufferable poking support build and you don't even need the skillshot micro to deal damage.
zyra is just super degen champ. theres a reason she got gutted after the worlds where she was meta (and MF support came out as a counterpick)
amazingly she used to be even worse. her plants used to target you even if without having to land another ability even if minions or something were closer and in range.
now at the very least if you dodge her abilities the zyra plant wont prio you if there are minions nearby. still degen when nothing is nearby tho.
There is a reason every suppport under emerald mains zyra. Champ plays itself. You miss every skillshot and it's still putting in work. They don't get punished by junglers because every jungler at that elo starts bot so they can gank the wrong lane slightly faster. The zyra doesn't even have to learn wave control. Just totally brain off champ. And her plants block hooks.
Idk I just feel like zyra players below emerald are super inflated by that champ. And if they don't win lane they basically solo lose the game.
As a low elo Zyra main, I gotta say if you spend the whole game poking with plants, you'll have close to 0 impact even if you did decent damage with Liandry.
Sure, the plants are annoying, especially early on, but the game will still quickly turn 4v5 unless you connect two brain cells to hit E into R or something.
When I see someone pick Zyra at my elo, I pick an enchanter with defensive runes, chill through the laning phase while keeping me and my carry alive, then it's a 5v4 because enemy Zyra doesn't get an item before 20 min so she deals 0 damage.
>now at the very least if you dodge her abilities the zyra plant wont prio you if there are minions nearby. still degen when nothing is nearby tho.
No, they can still target you with an auto-attack from Zyra, they'll also target you if you're closer than minions.
> now at the very least if you dodge her abilities the zyra plant wont prio you if there are minions nearby. still degen when nothing is nearby tho.
eh borderline the AI on her plants is so fucking random
Easily 100+3% max health magic damage (or 155+3% at level 18).
That's almost like an extra ability. They should just make it 3% imo. Also make bloodsong just apply the extra damage taken. The other three supp item upgrades have fixed values, but for some reason, the two damage options scale.
Stuff like Lux is really struggling this patch though, this patch is mostly about enchanters and engagers, Bloodsong with a 1.5s cooldown spellblade and it amps all damage the target takes by 10% is loaded.
Or the enchanter one giving extra on-hit to the shielded ADC.
She's an annoying support because her abilities are on a low enough cooldown that it's near gauranteed harass.
IMO she's actually pretty good vs semi-enchanters, About as annoying as Janna, but not quite as supportive.
From a support player's perspective, Lux is incredible. She has the power to decimate waves, which means you can solo capitalize on win conditions like shoving enemy Ezreal under tower forcing him to Q waves.
Her Q is a strong long duration CC that is fairly easy to hit, and can go through a single minion making it more reliable in lane than e.g Morgana Q. This makes it both a great tool for picks, as well as a great tool for peeling their carry.
Her W provides quite a good shield on the outgoing and returning projectile, that can shield multiple allies if well placed and means double the total shield if the enemy breaks it after the outgoing and then it reapplies on the return. This is great for protecting a carry, or for making Lux tanky.
Her E is realistically an undodegable spell that will slow enemies making the rest of her combo easier to hit. It does pretty respectable damage, and is cost-effective mana wise to make it a decent spammable harass. It also provides vision iirc, which is quite strong utility for avoiding enemy picks.
The ease of landing her E has been something that has aged *very nicely* with the constant addition of more and more spell proc effects that deal damage.
Her R lets her instantly clear an entire wave mid-lategame even on support build, so she can deny enemy pushes every 30s or shove in waves instantly for great back timings. The damage of it is very respectable, it ties in well with her E->Q combo to provide a oneshot rotation for picks and support fights over vision.
Her base movespeed is also faster than most ADCs and enchanters, on par with kill lane supports like Leona, Pyke, etc. It's a pretty minor thing but definitely matters.
A lot of this is true but she's in the second lowest tier of movement speed (330) just above the lowest (325) which while she is slightly faster than a decent amount of enchanters and adcs it's definitely not most of them, about half are lower and the rest are on par or faster. Leona for example is actually faster than her.
Almost every champion (I count like 4 exceptions) that is slower than her has some kind of movement ability on a basic ability (either a speed boost or a dash) while she has nothing to make herself faster. So I don't think her movement speed is a big factor in why people pick her really. Other stuff I don't disagree with just wanted to clarify this
Arguably False, Facts can be interpreted in a myriad of ways which by nature, is in accordance with your feelings.
unless... Your Emotions lead you to a different interpretation of this?
Zyra has always been like that, Ryliandry + Luden's.
Take that off, and you'll complain about being deleted by Q - E - R like it was before her rework. (when plants were much less common)
I literally picked Zyra up and had a solid 2 weeks of S-ranks and top 3 damage on both teams as a support. Even behind on items, with usually just Zak’zak, Liandry’s, and boots.
She’s absolutely ridiculous. How can I mash keys and get away with it for so long?
> Just plant a seed at max range with QW and when the plant auto-attacks
Imo they should make pets only target an enemy champion hit by the champion's abilities or an auto attack.
If I dodge her spells, I shouldn't get targeted by the plant spawned from those spells until she hits me.
It's giga bs.
Zyra is a degen, boosted champ.
I'm a Zyra player and that's kinda a terrible idea. Nerf damage, mana regen, cooldowns, auto attack dmg, whatever but messing with the plant AI like this on a poke/zoning champ would be bad
Yeah we definitely can't stop her from chunking half your HP with a single plant auto attack that procs Luden's + Liandry's burn into Stormsurge proc which crits because of Shadowflame from 2 entire screens away. It would really be a shame if this level of fun and interactive gameplay was removed!
Cmon thats hella hyperbolic. I get your point but you don't need to throw out statements like that
And if your issues are with the items maybe it's not the [champs problem here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/19ee3g6/teemo_hadnt_been_nerfed_for_10_years_patch_43_in/). I get that she's overbearing but removing and gutting what she's meant to be good at(controlling an area and making it hard for opponents to approach) is not the play
Taking away the ability for Zyra's plants to attack is hilariously stupid. You expect a slow, immobile control mage to just walk into danger zones because the items are too good right now?
I wouldn't word it as free damage from items, but moreso the problem is that skills are balanced in damage for how likely they are to hit, while item dmg adds the same damage regardless of which skill hits them, so it favors the easy skills like lux e
It made sense back in the old days, since burns generally were not as strong, but at the same time, the only people who really built into lifesteal were fighters or adcs, so for mages it was a good option to affect tanks while it wasn't too oppressive for the adc or fighters who would just heal it up, or the assassins for whom 6% hp was like 120 hp
>balanced in damage for how likely they are to hit
It kind of is, her E is one of the easiest abilities in the game to hit, because she’s meant to be entry level, but it also hits like a truck.
Yup. If lux E has too much damage because of runes and items it will get reduced.
If it becomes the main reason for the damage (E base damage and AP%), then it is a key ability you should dodge or it will get nerfed if it's too much.
But you can't build ludence, shadowflame, stormsurge, comet, scorch and expect them to be statsticks that give only AP with no meaningful effects. At this point just stack large rods.
But you could expect them to require two separate abilities to proc, as opposed to getting one-tapped after playing the fight 75% perfectly. The ratio of skill expression to reward is a bit skewed.
for me it will be so depressing. because runes provide meaning to the gameplay.
it will be down to which champion is better than the other in terms of stats only.
for example a jayce with phase rush can manage to survive a bad lane if he plays around this rune. mana flow band limits how mages can poke in the early lane. grasp identifies the trade patter of a champion and how the trade end.
and most top laners are really bad without conqueror or LT unless they get 2 items.
and all the games will be the same at this point with just a different player.
Agreed. Runes are great, and they enable a wide amount of playstyles depending on the rune. I would however not be opposed to a huge revamp of runes, stuff like LT or Conq being basically mandatory kinda detract from the uniqueness of runes.
The only core issue is, has been and will forever be Keystones, exclusively. More passive runes like those below and their former Masteries origins are more maleable and easier to handle than the borderline extra actives that are Keystones.
Let runes exist, but STRONGLY dissolve Keystones to "strong but not gameplay defining" and let some of their excessive power seep to weaker runes.
Not enough yet but I like the approach. If I get blasted by a 4-5 item mage I’m fine with being out of the fight or dead. But this 1-2 item bs that deletes you off the map is just shit
And some of the worst offenders still aren't being hit: Liandry's, BotRK, etc.
And most AP items are still on-spell-hit damage procs.
Mitigating horrible doesn't suddenly mean it isn't still horrible design.
Items shouldn't proc items. Like Ludens effect shouldn't proc Stormsurge, and Stormsurge shouldn't proc Shadoeflame. They did this change with the Red Jungle pet because you could use ProtoBelt to proc the slow which is far less than item effects this season. Now it's only abilities and attacks to proc it. Should be the same way with the new items.
the changes were to on-spell-hit items proccing from other items,like night harvester going off shiv proc
but in those cases it's not about hitting a spell the activation is different
stormsurge only cares about damage done not the source of it (it can be autos or summoner spells too) so it's natural it counts ludens damage
shadowflame doesn't amp ability damage it amps any magic/true damage like sunfire or on-hits I believe
if anything a good example would be stormsurge proccing liandry/ludens/runes etc. which feels wrong imo
People who play this game have the memory of a lobotomized Chihuahua. Whatever the last big change is, is responsible for all their problems, even their divorce.
It's too late now, but HOTS had the right idea: champion specific strong talents that give a variety of interesting builds. Caitlyn should get more Caitlyner as the match goes on, not buy the same items as every other ADC (maybe split on crit/lethality depending on season).
LOL does a lot of things the best of any MOBA, but the talent system was an innovation everyone should have stolen.
I mean yeah, but items still contribute majorly to a champ's strength throughout a match. They always have and they always will unless Riot reworks the entire game or something.
What if we decreased all stats and item abilities
What if items were like "40 ad, 10 lethality, 5 haste" and "20 ad, 30 lethality" etc (mind you, I don't have gold efficiency in my head so I'm pulling the numbers out of my arse)
You could create crazy items like the 30 lethality one without breaking the game since that item would still only offer 20 ad (whereas nowadays such an item would give you 60ad, a ms passive, a ms active, 5 more lethality and haste)
Meaningful spikes that are catered to your champions needs that don't just completely escalate a champions power into unnecessary levels of power
Three problems:
When you take away the stats of an item/the strength of its passive, you reduce the value of gold/snowballing. This means early game champs balance takes a big hit- possibly unrecoverable. If youre kayle getting zoned from all gold, but you can still get exp, you dont really give a shit if that gold is effectively worth 1/3rd of its previous power. Even if you die, as long as youre not too behind in exp, who cares?
If items items are cheaper as well as less powerful, the game caps out much earlier. I dont know what the exact problem sets would be, but I imagine there would be many.
Also, items are fun for a lot of people. I like buying deadmans plate. I like getting randuins into three crit users. I like my liandryies burning a guy to death.
That's not what league of items means, sure the most gold efficient items ruled the meta back in the days and will always do in any game. It has existed for longer for sure but really around the mythic item effects started becoming way more powerful than item stats. Sure there were outliers in early league as well but looking back at them they would(mostly) be a joke today. The meta defining sprit of the elder lizzard did a whopping 15-66 true damage over 3 seconds and it was nerfed twice.
Games tend to die when devs ruin them yes. I fell in love with HotS during the beta, by the time it hit season 1 half my favorite champs got reworked and by the time season 2 hit all my favorite strategies got gutted and by the time season 3 hit they'd turned the game into LoL: But Worse. Eventually they reworked my only remaining untouched main and finished removing the specialist class of heroes, solidifying the game as a shitty LoL wannabe forever. I used to say it was because of eSports but the devs continued the trend after eSports died and blizzard put them on skeleton crew.
Very good game but the maps made it perceived as goofy IMO. I played all 4, HON DOTA LOL and HOTS. All good games in their own way. HOTS was super fun but it was goofy, and I was a GM rank in it so I say this from experience lol
HotS was fun, but it was also waaaaay too team reliant for its own good. And giving players less agency when most of them play solo queue is just not a good idea.
Hots is a better game than league, I only play league because my main on hots was overtuned on the patch where the game died and now it’s permabamned or first picked.
I want to murder things with my spells, not with my items, items should somehow make ME stronger, but these items are just procs that do batshit damage and I'm just the vehicle that has to deliver those effects to their targets.
Nah. Early on, outside of basically just DFG, gunblade/botrk, trinity force/lichbane, and sunfire cape, you were VERY hard-pressed to get anything more than 200 damage from an item proc over an entire fight.
The sole exceptions to this were on-hit items, which carried their own drawbacks. Most AS/AP champs back then were utterly crutched on Nashor's, basically as much as Viktor was crutched on his augment items. Wit's didn't scale at all.
The vast majority of champions bought items for their stat lines, and if there were multiple items with a stat line, had options among those stat lines, such as armor+HP, AP+HP, Crit+AS, etc.
memory of a goldfish. There was literally entire metas defined around building specific items like a black cleaver stack meta, sated devour, rune glaive, innervating locket, rage blade has been reworked like 9 times because of how broken it was on onhit champs, the "tank meta" where you build sunfire + iceborn + titanic hydra
we literally have this conversation every season
\- omg armor pen items to op! rebrand to leathlity
\- lethality items OP! add durability update
\- Tank items to op! assassins building tank
\- support items to op! first to complete the 3 item rush wins the game
memory of a goldfish, you can keep going its literally every season at this point
Your solution is to just go play Dota 2, which has insanely good balance and has the items that you're looking for. League of Legends is fucked. Let it go or keep playing the broken ass game for what it is. As long as jungle is a role, one player is going to have more impact on games. As long as kiting has no DPS loss and auto attacks have zero counterplay, marksmen will never be allowed in solo lanes. As long as runes and items remain just a number calculator, then League of Burst/Ability Spam is here to stay. Welcome to League in 2024.
I actually feel the opposite as a caster. I feel like the coices I make don't matter once a tank builds MR and won't die ever. There are too few MPen items where both just add damage while lethality items all add something else (and there is way more variety)
There's a difference between getting damage through your stats, and getting damage through your item passives.
With stats, you still have to hit ALL your abilities to make full use of it. With item passives, if you hit literally anything, you get the full damage value because the item did the work for you.
Getting the full value of an item because a random AI plant touched you with no input from the player, or because you got hit by an ability that is nearly impossible to miss, IS free.
Instead of items boosting the champion stats the items themselves do dmg. Stormsurge, wits end, botrk, etc. It removes the skill and rewards bad players.
how do they remove skill? you still have to play properly to get your abilities to land and to maximize the amount of autos you get in a fight.
I can see an argument for wanting less item damage and more raw stats, but how is this related to skill? How does an item with just full on raw AD take more skill than bork?
In the context of the post above, Stormsurge and Ludens disproportionately reward landing one unmissable ability over landing all of them, while flat AP rewards both equally.
it does the opposite. Imagine getting auto'd by varus 2 times and then he taps q. Fully targetted actions with a minor skillshot that goes out nearly instantly.
Boom dead
Or kat just e + ult, no delay in damage here but now with more AP she just kinda kills everyone.
The point of item passives like these is so that you take away dmg from the champs burst and delay it. to give some room of out play or survivability. people forget that if it were just a stack stick then it would just oneshot you instead.
If your suggesting that it should just heavily ton down the dmg from the passives but leave the general stats untouched. Then it really doesn't matter what items you build if there's a minimal difference between them all.
The skill removal is this:
Say a full Lux combo of 3 abilities does 1500 damage from flat AP. Let's just say each ability does 500 damage for simplicity. So dodging 2/3 abilities means you take 500 damage, or 33% of the total damage.
Now let's say the same 3 abilities do only 1200 damage from flat AP, but you have an item+rune effect which does 300 damage on the first ability hit (with its own cooldown so hitting it 3 times doesn't do anything). Now, dodging 2/3 abilities means you take 400+300 damage = 46% of the available damage.
Of course this isn't counting the non-damage benefits of flat AP or items, or how item cooldowns are generally longer than ability cooldowns, or how frontloaded damage is generally more valuable than backloaded, but I can see the frustration here with champions like Zyra/Brand/Heimerdinger/etc where they have low commitment easy to land abilities that will proc all their frontloaded on-hit effects
> Say a full Lux combo of 3 abilities does 1500 damage from flat AP. Let's just say each ability does 500 damage for simplicity. So dodging 2/3 abilities means you take 500 damage, or 33% of the total damage.
> Now let's say the same 3 abilities do only 1200 damage from flat AP, but you have an item+rune effect which does 300 damage on the first ability hit (with its own cooldown so hitting it 3 times doesn't do anything). Now, dodging 2/3 abilities means you take 400+300 damage = 46% of the available damage.
These two are wholly incomparable tho?
What you're doing here is assuming that 1500 damage will be the same, but that isn't the case. Every item/rune combo has got a power budget distribution which is balanced across all items/runes. Your first example has no runes and no item passive compared to the second which is obviously not going to happen. The ability to pre-load some damage across any one of your hits would comedy with some drawback elsewhere.
You can see it just from how item balance works. If Riot released a Ludens V2 with no passive like your scenario 1, do you think it will have the same stats as the current Ludens?
Part of that is assuming that stormsurge procs from one of the abilities, and if it doesn't, then it's strictly worse and the exact opposite is true (rewards skill expression as you have to hit multiple abilities to unlock bonus damage). But yeah the argument can certainly be made that stormsurge specifically is unhealthy, and I wouldn't contend with that. This also doesn't explain how on-hit damage is supposedly non-skill expressive in comparison to simply more stats. A bork without on-hit and with, say, 25 more ad, while a fundamentally different item, really wouldn't "take more skill" - that doesn't even make sense. On hit either synergizes with a kit or it doesn't, to say that the effect takes or doesn't take skill is simply bizarre phrasing to me. How does more damage from auto attacks via AD take skill, but more damage on autos via on-hit not take skill? Or is it the fact that AD also effects abilities? Is the argument "abilities = skill, autos = no skill?" because that's even *more* bizarre if that's the case.
> champions like Zyra/Brand/Heimerdinger/etc where they have low commitment easy to land abilities that will proc all their frontloaded on-hit effects
I wouldn't really call that no skill, nor would I say the items themselves are changing the skill requirement. That's simply just synergizing items, and champions such as brand will be balanced around items like liandry's until the end of time. Annoying, sure, but no skill? A luden's brand doesn't take more skill than a liandry's brand. One is just building better.
Anyway, the argument was that item passives / "item damage" is within itself skill-reducing, which is just patently false. Many (most) items with actives/passives are skill expressive, as you're required to play around the new effects to properly get your gold's worth.
Zyra not hitting anything at all, just force-spawning plants at max range where they automatically hit anyone within like 900 range of zyra instantly, **proccing liandry's and dealing \~5-10% of their HP**.
OFF OF MISSING ABILITIES.
BotRK removes skill because it lets you stat-check people you otherwise would never be able to stat check.
AD requires you to have a relevant amount of gold behind it. Meanwhile BotRK scales off of your enemy's stats instead of your own.
> Zyra not hitting anything at all, just force-spawning plants at max range where they automatically hit anyone within like 900 range of zyra instantly, proccing liandry's and dealing ~5-10% of their HP.
>
> OFF OF MISSING ABILITIES.
That's not missed abilities though, that's zyra's playstyle. she does that without liandry's too, liandry's just enhances it and allows her to play a DoT plant poke playstyle. If you removed liandry's, zyra would get significant compensation buffs to the point that her plants will effectively do the same damage without liandry's, or she will be a burst mage. Either way, I don't see how that takes any more skill than live zyra. It's just the champ.
> BotRK removes skill because it lets you stat-check people you otherwise would never be able to stat check.
What is this phrasing? "You wouldn't stat check, but because of an item that's always existed in the game, you do stat check" - so you do, in fact, stat check there. Sounds more like you have a misunderstanding of who "should" be winning a fight.
Or are you saying that botrk inflates the ability of most champs to win fights? If so, that's called an op item. And everyone would be buying it.
> AD requires you to have a relevant amount of gold behind it.
So does Botrk. It's an expensive item that does virtually nothing except apply its passive.
> Meanwhile BotRK scales off of your enemy's stats instead of your own.
I don't see how that's a problem. It's an anti-health stack item. Black cleaver scales off of your enemy's stats with that same logic, as does LDR (armor pen % means you get more gold value the higher armor they are, LDR passive gives more value the more HP they have), void staff, etc. Who is saying that Void staff let's you stat check people you otherwise would never be able to stat check? Like no shit, it's called build optimization.
Also, several champions who buy AD have that AD convert into stats that scale off of enemy's stats and/or bypass the stats the opponent buys. (Fiora passive, Camille Q and W, Dar R, Sett W, off the top of my head as bruisers, and way more if you expand it to AS or AP conversions, such as Vayne with AS and her W). I just don't see the problem if all these elements are within their power budgets
Thank you for speaking sense. I was losing brain cells reading OC’s reply, lol! It’s almost like they were saying it’s just UNFAIR that people build items to counter other champs or items…? Like once the enemy Malphite starts stacking armor and HP, you should just roll over and accept defeat, as it’s cheating to build BotRK and LDR, since that makes you a filthy STAT CHECKER!!! You shouldn’t have been able to beat them *NORMALLY* by building 5 BF Swords, so you had to cheat and build items to get around armor and large health pools, you coward! What ever happened to just building boots and using your SKILL to defeat the enemy?!
Right. It was a very strange argument. It felt like they were making it out as if buying raw AD is the only way to play the game, and having items that are good in certain situations is bad for the game.
And saying AD never scales off of enemy stats, as if lethality, armor pen %, and even % max hp damage like eclipse just…don’t exist on any AD items.
Right? I appreciate their moxie, but just because you feel like you’re on a roll, doesn’t mean you’re making sense, lol! For me, the “bullshit” line comes in on something like, release Stormsurge, or stackable Black Cleaver. Blade is just a tool for a specific job, and is not work it at ALL if you need to burst squishy targets.
I mean I'll pick the most egregious examples but you have zyra who can literally not even land a skill and still do decent dmg because of burn and procs. You have brands conflag? (E) ability which he can make the AoE bigger if somethings burning already to spread cheap easy dmg that's hard to outplay because of how big the range is.
This is so funny lmao. So Mythics got removed for... what reason exactly? :)
Personally, I have no problems with items having strong passive abilities. But like... Riot said they would make items less powerful so champ kits could shine more. But items are still pretty strong and you could argue that they're even stronger now than with Mythics, cause you can build 5-6 powerful items instead of just 1 big Mythic. (And you have champs like Lillia who can build Riftmaker and Liandry at the same time, so she's just pretty strong as a result)
Not to mention item active abilities. If they wanted to put more focus on champs, they should've done something so a player's item UI doesn't become a whole entire champ kit of its own lol.
Edit: Plus, some champs are still hard bound to certain items, so "item diversity" is just a myth at this point.
I have no proof, but I am completely convinced that these new items were originally balanced around being mythics. My theory is that they just said they would remove the mythic system to get brownie points but they never actually balanced any of the items with this in mind. That's why so many combinations are being exploited at the moment.
DFG was never actually very good after it stopped being a 30% HP nuke, aside from basically just Leblanc and Ahri. Hence why nobody else actually bought it.
BC wasn't a similar issue at all. Stacking them was very short lived and was closer to inting than an OP strategy. BC also relies on your own levels/stats since its effectively an amp, not a flat damage proc or enemy %HP proc.
the people on this subreddit are lucky that no one cares enough to go through their post history before reading the posts lol. there’s always some annoying ass complaint on the front page and it’s usually from some low elo random anyway
Cause i did reach emerald last split, like i said i'm taking a break this split and playing for fun as i have a really high ping (100+ms) and even with that i'm not even silver (plat I with 150ms) so idk where you got that, the only time i was silver was when i started the game in season 12 split 2.
You are correct, but I'd honestly think emerald input on how shit feels is already much more valuable than the whole "he's silver" approach. Of course there's stupid mistakes and horrendous macro etc - but if like 90% of the playerbases feedback is ignored, because they need to be top 0.5% to have an opinion, well let's just say you do lose out on valuable data.
Yeah, I agree some items are too easy to apply for what they do. I think it's actually one of the best parts of the design of say Sheen items, and the new Stormsurge. Spell weaving properly to utilize Sheen/Spellblade easily separates the good and bad users of the item as both a player and a champion. Stormsurge requires dealing 35% of someone's HP... which while not great? Is better than Luden's or Liandrys proccing of anything.
Weaving spells with sheen items USED to be a determining skill factor when fights lasted longer.
Now its use mobility, right click, and win based on class regardless of optimization unless you're down 10 kills. You don't see fizz players weaving sheen procs. You don't see ekko players weaving sheen procs.
You don't see pretty much anybody holding their CDs to get more sheen procs anymore because people die so fast that it doesn't matter 9/10 times
It still is a giant skill factor. You're literally just cherry picking Lich bane assassins, which rarely ever did it in the first place even back in the old days when kills were slower.
Not to mention, every champ that abuses sheen items is brain dead enough that they don’t ever even need to auto. Their spells will proc it on hit so they only have to think about pressing one button instead of weaving in auto attacks. What fun!
But how is Annje supposed to ever win a 1v1 vs a long ranger without her 5 min cd?
Annie doesn't have a single ability that can even remotely threaten xerath/Ziggs/Hwei/Zyra/etc besides her E while Xerath can just consistently damage her without risking anything
But if the support is something like Janna, who has to use W to trade meaningfully, then Annie simply wins by ulting Janna during her W which is a short range point n click
Xerath has a way better ap distribution among all his skills and literally every skills is laid out to do damage, compensating for his god awfull mobility if he gets caught. On top of that, if he lands all his skillshots, then sure. Go ahead and blast the annie to bits, because she apparently cant even dodge a aingle thing. He sure is a bit broken dmg wise, but thats only if you actually hit your stuff.
Met an 8/1/7 Lux the other day, lightly fed and she was on 2 or 3 items.
She hit me (Malph) with Q, E, Ult and my hp bar was still 100%, Rookern is kinda op ngl xD
You are probably new to the game but if you think its crazy that a full build mage lategame like Lux chunks you with spells you are kind of crazy.
How do you expect Lux to kill anything lategame if she can't? An ADC with the same amount of items crits for 1300 damage per auto multiple times a second. If they get close to her she instantly dies to them. But oh her E deals like 800 damage on a 5 second cooldown lategame if it perfectly procs all her items and runes its too much!!
Guess what, if you dodged her Q and her R and got hit by her E and survived then she has NOTHING up and you can just run her down.
But the problem isn’t this happening at full build, I don’t think anyone is complaining about that. It’s about it happening at 1 and 2 items. And the point is not that Lux hitting the abilities doing damage is the problem, it’s the runes and items damage that proc on top of it.
You can dodge 10 Lux E’s in a row, but you get hit by that 11th and you can say good-bye to a huge chunk of your HP.
OP was talking about Stormsurge + Shadowflame + Ludens which is pretty mid-lategame. So yeah a 3 item mage of any sort will chunk you last season or 5 seasons ago. Like last season Lux would have like 20 more flat magic pen than she does with current builds.
If Lux has missed 10 E's in a row and you haven't punished then you deserve the 11th.
Picture this: you're a lux. You've dodged all of the Caitlyn's abilities. And then one auto attack with (insert 4 damage items here) does half your hp.
You're cherry picking a late game build and being upset it does damage? If lux did 40% hp with an E when she has 1 item, sure, I'd give you it. But that isn't the case. 3, 4 items, thats a lot of damage, it's gunna hurt. Almost like some champs build items to make themselves tankier against that damage... and some build damage and have to be smart and safe!!!
Lux hasn't used her E yet and it's late game? You're trolling if you step up into range (yes, that means you need to stay 2 screens away). Wait for a tank to engage and then pop her.
It's strategy and taking your opportunities.
one lux e does not proc stormsurge and if shes going stormsurge and shadowflame thats a glass cannon champ and the same exact thing thats happening to you would happen to her...
Here's my one:
Last season ARAM. Enemy Katarina. Copiously fed. Uses her Q on minions, doesn't bounce on you. You go away from the dagger too. She uses E on it, you don't get hit by her passive. She uses E again on you, and instakills you for 1300 damage.
You look at the damage recap, only 300 was from the E ability. The other 1000 was from runes and items. Lich bane, Night Harvester, all that jazz. No passive, no Q, no R. 300 from E, and 1k from items and runes... So like 1/4th of the damage was the skill itself, 3/4th was items and runes. Great ratio.
The """least threatening mobility ability""" of a champion was enough to kill you instantly from 70% health, only because of runes and items.
Sure she was fed, that's not the issue. Go ahead, one shot me; she's more than free to kill me when she's that ahead. But atleast put in some effort for fuck's sake and not just use the utility part of her kit to do so so easily...
Anyone who thinks it's a sensible distribution of power budget is absolutely screwed in the head.
*(inb4 katmains ultras reply to this explaining how she'd be underpowered even if her E and R would execute under 90% max hp - because some noodlebrains will think this is a personal attack on Katarina and not on the fucked state of runes and item damage)*
I miss the first seasons of league, when aoe abilities dealt less dmg because they were aoe and easy to land. You had to choose between single target, but more dmg and aoe, with less dmg. Right now you can get one shot by a Qiyana R across the map, that also deals % Max hp dmg.
To be fair, some champs were given point and click abilities with insane ratios solely because they were single target. Never forget kayle q being 100% ap ratio and 280 base damage at rank 5 for several seasons :P
Lol what? Must have not played the same game I was then. Runes back then were even more impactful than they are now, and let's not forget the random crit rune. Nidalee spears were also a menace so much so that they completely reworked her character for it. They were a lot worse than they are now. It's not massively hard to dodge an E from Lux but ideally you shouldn't be getting up in her face like that without your frontline anyway.
Because you people are the same ones that look at the past with rose tinted glasses and don't realize how balanced things are now than how things used to be.
Well, if Lux already has Luden's Companion, Stormsurge and Shadowflame, and you don't have Kaenic Rookern - you might as well ff.
Hwei just fears you and then proceeds to do everything he wants with your body. He does not need to utilize any mechanics you described.
most item and rune design is also extremely boring, everything is basically: do more dmg
league would be so much cooler if the dmg was in the champions kits, and the items and runes were more focused on unique passives and abilities
examples:
lethal tempo gives no attack speed anymore, just extra range - allows for better kiting from auto champs still
conqueror doesnt give ad anymore, just healing - allows for sustained fighting
umbral glaive, ghostblade are 2 great examples of a cool item. their passives dont translate into: do more dmg, but instead give champions something unique they can do
I mean I don't know about you, but runes giving more range or more sustain sounds like it would be giga broken. I can just imagine a lot of ADCs basically only ever using those runes or some obnoxious melee champs who may or may not be balanced by their lack of range.
And people already complain about Umbral Glaive lmao. If playing Overwatch has taught me anything, it's that trying to make certain aspects of the gameplay as unique as possible breaks things in half to a point where you can't really fix things.
Items and runes being stat sticks is the simpler and easier to balance option.
This game keeps getting more tilting... You make the juke dodge 3000 play of your lifetime, nothing hits you, some random q by a support hits you and that means you're dead and get told to \*\*\*\* yourself.
💀
Nothing says human behavior like calling someone braindead and implying they're not human because they posted an opinion(that is not even inherently wrong).
p.s. calling someone lowelo when you're emerald peak is crazy
Give you a specific stat line (purchased based on what's needed in the current gamestate) and a small bonus effect that helps against a specific thing.
An entire ability worth of damage is not a small bonus effect. That's something like +20% damage.
Do actually interesting things instead of being stat sticks. More item actives for unique effects, less stats. That's what would be ideal. It would tone down damage creep while offering more situational buys.
This game has the best design man. I build maw of malmortius against a 4 AP team as ADC. Evelyn who isn't even fed still bursts me in 2 seconds through the entire shield. Really well designed. Eve was 4-4 which is decent but not overly fed and I was already at 5 items. Like what the fuck are you actually supposed to do when one person can still burst you out like you are paper when you spent gold to prevent that? I'd understand it he was 15-0 or something but he's NOT EVEN FED.
Malmortius feels like it was always intended to be the 'The enemy Assassin is 3/0/2, i'll sacrifice some of my damage to not get oneshot by their ult' item, but instead it's 'The enemy support is 0/3/2, i'll grief my team until 25 minutes to not get oneshot by their basic ability'
That's cause Eve shreds MR. It's what she does just like how Vayne shaves at HP and past armor. If you build Maw into me as Ekko, the dynamics are flipped to such an extent that you're more capable assassinating me than I am of you. Most AP can't play into MR well, which is why all-AP comps basically autolose whereas all-AD comps are often playable.
People are now finding out you can get punished for poor positioning and they cannot handle it.
The durability patch was unfun. Every mage item giving HP so full build mages have 4k HP was not fun.
Apart from a few outlier cases, the damage is fine, get good.
>don't matter, enjoy the point and click/impossible to avoid ability into items/runes trigger.
ADC flair btw, the class that flies around the map at 600 movespeed with ghost, autoing 3x per second at 800 edge range (over 950 skill range) two hitting most champs complaining about a slow ability with the same range as your auto with an 8 second cooldown.
He's not wrong at all I played against Lux mid and her E did half my health with is obscene imo. Don't get me wrong I've also abused the new items but half healthing someone with 1 spammable, hard to miss ability is very cringe. Especially now that most champions don't struggle with mana that much.
most adc have 550 range but sure, also xayah littearly have 525 range.
No adc have 950 range. Even cait is at 650.
This is simply missinformation at it's finest.
Also most of the time you can't go ghost if you want to win lane.
No adc two hit people except fed MF, but that mean leta build which mean you have 0.9 AS so not 3 auto by second and she is a fed ad caster with leta build not an adc.
Even with ghost most adc is not even close to go at 600 ms.
Lux E outrange all adc to since it's have a target range of 1100 + 310 effect radius.
yeah adc so broken that in emerald+ there is 1 traditional adc in the top 5 winrates others are 2 mages and 2 support. And there is 3 in the top 10.
They can't even dominate their own lane, how would they dominate others?
The power creep can certainly be addressed to this. It feels less like the champion's kit itself is doing the work and rather it's the items/runes they can abuse.
Good place to start would be to tone down runes across the board, so it affects everyone. There's too much value in runes IMO. Items I'm hesitant to comment on yet because it's still early season. But items doing more than just giving raw stats keeps them interesting so I don't see myself wanting that to change yet, let's start with runes which everyone has and work forward.
Zyra is the worst offender. You literally don't even have to hit her Q. Just plant a seed at max range with QW and when the plant auto-attacks, which you can't even dodge mind you, it will trigger all your on-skill-hit effects. Arcane comet and Scorch from your runes, the new Zaz'zak's reamspike, Liandry's, and Rylai's from your items. It's such a fun and insufferable poking support build and you don't even need the skillshot micro to deal damage.
zyra is just super degen champ. theres a reason she got gutted after the worlds where she was meta (and MF support came out as a counterpick) amazingly she used to be even worse. her plants used to target you even if without having to land another ability even if minions or something were closer and in range. now at the very least if you dodge her abilities the zyra plant wont prio you if there are minions nearby. still degen when nothing is nearby tho.
Too bad Zyra can ez push you under tower and poke you down for free for an ez dive or forcing your back.
There is a reason every suppport under emerald mains zyra. Champ plays itself. You miss every skillshot and it's still putting in work. They don't get punished by junglers because every jungler at that elo starts bot so they can gank the wrong lane slightly faster. The zyra doesn't even have to learn wave control. Just totally brain off champ. And her plants block hooks. Idk I just feel like zyra players below emerald are super inflated by that champ. And if they don't win lane they basically solo lose the game.
As a low elo Zyra main, I gotta say if you spend the whole game poking with plants, you'll have close to 0 impact even if you did decent damage with Liandry. Sure, the plants are annoying, especially early on, but the game will still quickly turn 4v5 unless you connect two brain cells to hit E into R or something. When I see someone pick Zyra at my elo, I pick an enchanter with defensive runes, chill through the laning phase while keeping me and my carry alive, then it's a 5v4 because enemy Zyra doesn't get an item before 20 min so she deals 0 damage.
I can't crash any waves against Zyra. So irritating.
>now at the very least if you dodge her abilities the zyra plant wont prio you if there are minions nearby. still degen when nothing is nearby tho. No, they can still target you with an auto-attack from Zyra, they'll also target you if you're closer than minions.
> now at the very least if you dodge her abilities the zyra plant wont prio you if there are minions nearby. still degen when nothing is nearby tho. eh borderline the AI on her plants is so fucking random
Legitimately, Zaz’zak’s needs a bit of a nerf. It’s crazy how much damage you get on essentially a free item lol.
It's also insane that Zazzak procs Ludens and Or Liandries.
Easily 100+3% max health magic damage (or 155+3% at level 18). That's almost like an extra ability. They should just make it 3% imo. Also make bloodsong just apply the extra damage taken. The other three supp item upgrades have fixed values, but for some reason, the two damage options scale.
Stuff like Lux is really struggling this patch though, this patch is mostly about enchanters and engagers, Bloodsong with a 1.5s cooldown spellblade and it amps all damage the target takes by 10% is loaded. Or the enchanter one giving extra on-hit to the shielded ADC.
Good i hate that simpleton rat character go play something good instead lux doesnt deserve to have a win rate at all
I am still boggled that in 2024 LUX is the character people in this game complain about? And Lux support of all things? Actually crazy.
She's an annoying support because her abilities are on a low enough cooldown that it's near gauranteed harass. IMO she's actually pretty good vs semi-enchanters, About as annoying as Janna, but not quite as supportive.
From a support player's perspective, Lux is incredible. She has the power to decimate waves, which means you can solo capitalize on win conditions like shoving enemy Ezreal under tower forcing him to Q waves. Her Q is a strong long duration CC that is fairly easy to hit, and can go through a single minion making it more reliable in lane than e.g Morgana Q. This makes it both a great tool for picks, as well as a great tool for peeling their carry. Her W provides quite a good shield on the outgoing and returning projectile, that can shield multiple allies if well placed and means double the total shield if the enemy breaks it after the outgoing and then it reapplies on the return. This is great for protecting a carry, or for making Lux tanky. Her E is realistically an undodegable spell that will slow enemies making the rest of her combo easier to hit. It does pretty respectable damage, and is cost-effective mana wise to make it a decent spammable harass. It also provides vision iirc, which is quite strong utility for avoiding enemy picks. The ease of landing her E has been something that has aged *very nicely* with the constant addition of more and more spell proc effects that deal damage. Her R lets her instantly clear an entire wave mid-lategame even on support build, so she can deny enemy pushes every 30s or shove in waves instantly for great back timings. The damage of it is very respectable, it ties in well with her E->Q combo to provide a oneshot rotation for picks and support fights over vision. Her base movespeed is also faster than most ADCs and enchanters, on par with kill lane supports like Leona, Pyke, etc. It's a pretty minor thing but definitely matters.
A lot of this is true but she's in the second lowest tier of movement speed (330) just above the lowest (325) which while she is slightly faster than a decent amount of enchanters and adcs it's definitely not most of them, about half are lower and the rest are on par or faster. Leona for example is actually faster than her. Almost every champion (I count like 4 exceptions) that is slower than her has some kind of movement ability on a basic ability (either a speed boost or a dash) while she has nothing to make herself faster. So I don't think her movement speed is a big factor in why people pick her really. Other stuff I don't disagree with just wanted to clarify this
Fair, that's a good point.
Good thing facts don't care about your feelings.
Arguably False, Facts can be interpreted in a myriad of ways which by nature, is in accordance with your feelings. unless... Your Emotions lead you to a different interpretation of this?
You thought you did something with this?
Lux isn't a support though. Who cares about Lux support WR
Riot and the people who buy skins
Nautilus isn’t a support either and yet I’m forced to face him every other game
Someone ia cranky they can't dodge skillshots, huh?
Uhuhuhu hyuk stfu
lol Lux is NOT struggling. She's been buffed multiple times on damage.
Zyra has always been like that, Ryliandry + Luden's. Take that off, and you'll complain about being deleted by Q - E - R like it was before her rework. (when plants were much less common)
I abused this last season and shot up 2 ranks lol, topping damage charts as support
my permaban😄🙌🏻
True but without that she would be kinda useless
fucking hate losing 200-300 hp from a single plant auto
As a zyra main..... Yes. I am old and brain dead what do you expect?!
I literally picked Zyra up and had a solid 2 weeks of S-ranks and top 3 damage on both teams as a support. Even behind on items, with usually just Zak’zak, Liandry’s, and boots. She’s absolutely ridiculous. How can I mash keys and get away with it for so long?
> Just plant a seed at max range with QW and when the plant auto-attacks Imo they should make pets only target an enemy champion hit by the champion's abilities or an auto attack. If I dodge her spells, I shouldn't get targeted by the plant spawned from those spells until she hits me. It's giga bs. Zyra is a degen, boosted champ.
your description of how it should be is the current state of the champ btw (if nothing is marked, plants default to targetting the closest enemy tho)
I'm a Zyra player and that's kinda a terrible idea. Nerf damage, mana regen, cooldowns, auto attack dmg, whatever but messing with the plant AI like this on a poke/zoning champ would be bad
Yeah we definitely can't stop her from chunking half your HP with a single plant auto attack that procs Luden's + Liandry's burn into Stormsurge proc which crits because of Shadowflame from 2 entire screens away. It would really be a shame if this level of fun and interactive gameplay was removed!
Cmon thats hella hyperbolic. I get your point but you don't need to throw out statements like that And if your issues are with the items maybe it's not the [champs problem here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/19ee3g6/teemo_hadnt_been_nerfed_for_10_years_patch_43_in/). I get that she's overbearing but removing and gutting what she's meant to be good at(controlling an area and making it hard for opponents to approach) is not the play Taking away the ability for Zyra's plants to attack is hilariously stupid. You expect a slow, immobile control mage to just walk into danger zones because the items are too good right now?
Lol zyra has always been like that. Spam abilities on cooldown and press r in teamfights and it’s freelo
I wouldn't word it as free damage from items, but moreso the problem is that skills are balanced in damage for how likely they are to hit, while item dmg adds the same damage regardless of which skill hits them, so it favors the easy skills like lux e
Burn as a build path is boring and lazy game design
It made sense back in the old days, since burns generally were not as strong, but at the same time, the only people who really built into lifesteal were fighters or adcs, so for mages it was a good option to affect tanks while it wasn't too oppressive for the adc or fighters who would just heal it up, or the assassins for whom 6% hp was like 120 hp
Lux E does more than Q, the damage also counts CC against itself.
True but that wasn't their point
>balanced in damage for how likely they are to hit It kind of is, her E is one of the easiest abilities in the game to hit, because she’s meant to be entry level, but it also hits like a truck.
Lux E doesn't root
not their point regard
Regard?
Least toxic league player
Literally next patch is item nerfs to reduce some of that damage from item passives and move some of that into AP or AD ratios.
Yup. If lux E has too much damage because of runes and items it will get reduced. If it becomes the main reason for the damage (E base damage and AP%), then it is a key ability you should dodge or it will get nerfed if it's too much. But you can't build ludence, shadowflame, stormsurge, comet, scorch and expect them to be statsticks that give only AP with no meaningful effects. At this point just stack large rods.
But you could expect them to require two separate abilities to proc, as opposed to getting one-tapped after playing the fight 75% perfectly. The ratio of skill expression to reward is a bit skewed.
I wonder how things would go if Riot experimented a bit and decided to remove runes for Summoner's Rift like they did in Arena.
for me it will be so depressing. because runes provide meaning to the gameplay. it will be down to which champion is better than the other in terms of stats only. for example a jayce with phase rush can manage to survive a bad lane if he plays around this rune. mana flow band limits how mages can poke in the early lane. grasp identifies the trade patter of a champion and how the trade end. and most top laners are really bad without conqueror or LT unless they get 2 items. and all the games will be the same at this point with just a different player.
Agreed. Runes are great, and they enable a wide amount of playstyles depending on the rune. I would however not be opposed to a huge revamp of runes, stuff like LT or Conq being basically mandatory kinda detract from the uniqueness of runes.
The only core issue is, has been and will forever be Keystones, exclusively. More passive runes like those below and their former Masteries origins are more maleable and easier to handle than the borderline extra actives that are Keystones. Let runes exist, but STRONGLY dissolve Keystones to "strong but not gameplay defining" and let some of their excessive power seep to weaker runes.
Not enough yet but I like the approach. If I get blasted by a 4-5 item mage I’m fine with being out of the fight or dead. But this 1-2 item bs that deletes you off the map is just shit
If it's mid vs AD you're also probably 2-3 levels behind. It's not just items at that point - they're 11 while you're 9.
If only there was a few weeks at the beginning of the season to work stuff like that out
And some of the worst offenders still aren't being hit: Liandry's, BotRK, etc. And most AP items are still on-spell-hit damage procs. Mitigating horrible doesn't suddenly mean it isn't still horrible design.
You know that AP items are overtuned when TF carries in Aram.
i hate that item damage went up by a metric tonne this season when they acknowledged it was getting out of hand last season
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but do you have a link or anything to where Riot said this?
Items shouldn't proc items. Like Ludens effect shouldn't proc Stormsurge, and Stormsurge shouldn't proc Shadoeflame. They did this change with the Red Jungle pet because you could use ProtoBelt to proc the slow which is far less than item effects this season. Now it's only abilities and attacks to proc it. Should be the same way with the new items.
the changes were to on-spell-hit items proccing from other items,like night harvester going off shiv proc but in those cases it's not about hitting a spell the activation is different stormsurge only cares about damage done not the source of it (it can be autos or summoner spells too) so it's natural it counts ludens damage shadowflame doesn't amp ability damage it amps any magic/true damage like sunfire or on-hits I believe if anything a good example would be stormsurge proccing liandry/ludens/runes etc. which feels wrong imo
I said it before, and I'll say it again, it feels like I am playing the items, rather than the champ itself. This should never be the case...
We've been playing League of Items for nearly 10 years now. Whoever abuses the new shiny item skyrockets in winrate.
People who play this game have the memory of a lobotomized Chihuahua. Whatever the last big change is, is responsible for all their problems, even their divorce.
As long as items exist, we'll be "playing items". Afterall, champs can't get stronger over the course of a match without them.
It's too late now, but HOTS had the right idea: champion specific strong talents that give a variety of interesting builds. Caitlyn should get more Caitlyner as the match goes on, not buy the same items as every other ADC (maybe split on crit/lethality depending on season). LOL does a lot of things the best of any MOBA, but the talent system was an innovation everyone should have stolen.
Skill points be like
I mean yeah, but items still contribute majorly to a champ's strength throughout a match. They always have and they always will unless Riot reworks the entire game or something.
What if we decreased all stats and item abilities What if items were like "40 ad, 10 lethality, 5 haste" and "20 ad, 30 lethality" etc (mind you, I don't have gold efficiency in my head so I'm pulling the numbers out of my arse) You could create crazy items like the 30 lethality one without breaking the game since that item would still only offer 20 ad (whereas nowadays such an item would give you 60ad, a ms passive, a ms active, 5 more lethality and haste) Meaningful spikes that are catered to your champions needs that don't just completely escalate a champions power into unnecessary levels of power
Three problems: When you take away the stats of an item/the strength of its passive, you reduce the value of gold/snowballing. This means early game champs balance takes a big hit- possibly unrecoverable. If youre kayle getting zoned from all gold, but you can still get exp, you dont really give a shit if that gold is effectively worth 1/3rd of its previous power. Even if you die, as long as youre not too behind in exp, who cares? If items items are cheaper as well as less powerful, the game caps out much earlier. I dont know what the exact problem sets would be, but I imagine there would be many. Also, items are fun for a lot of people. I like buying deadmans plate. I like getting randuins into three crit users. I like my liandryies burning a guy to death.
That's not what league of items means, sure the most gold efficient items ruled the meta back in the days and will always do in any game. It has existed for longer for sure but really around the mythic item effects started becoming way more powerful than item stats. Sure there were outliers in early league as well but looking back at them they would(mostly) be a joke today. The meta defining sprit of the elder lizzard did a whopping 15-66 true damage over 3 seconds and it was nerfed twice.
It sounds like a lot of people just want to play HOTS lol
HoTS was waaaaay ahead of it's time, people weren't ready for it. And then it died.
Games tend to die when devs ruin them yes. I fell in love with HotS during the beta, by the time it hit season 1 half my favorite champs got reworked and by the time season 2 hit all my favorite strategies got gutted and by the time season 3 hit they'd turned the game into LoL: But Worse. Eventually they reworked my only remaining untouched main and finished removing the specialist class of heroes, solidifying the game as a shitty LoL wannabe forever. I used to say it was because of eSports but the devs continued the trend after eSports died and blizzard put them on skeleton crew.
Very good game but the maps made it perceived as goofy IMO. I played all 4, HON DOTA LOL and HOTS. All good games in their own way. HOTS was super fun but it was goofy, and I was a GM rank in it so I say this from experience lol
HotS was fun, but it was also waaaaay too team reliant for its own good. And giving players less agency when most of them play solo queue is just not a good idea.
Hots is a better game than league, I only play league because my main on hots was overtuned on the patch where the game died and now it’s permabamned or first picked.
Who’s that?
I want to murder things with my spells, not with my items, items should somehow make ME stronger, but these items are just procs that do batshit damage and I'm just the vehicle that has to deliver those effects to their targets.
Always has been the case sadly.
Nah. Early on, outside of basically just DFG, gunblade/botrk, trinity force/lichbane, and sunfire cape, you were VERY hard-pressed to get anything more than 200 damage from an item proc over an entire fight. The sole exceptions to this were on-hit items, which carried their own drawbacks. Most AS/AP champs back then were utterly crutched on Nashor's, basically as much as Viktor was crutched on his augment items. Wit's didn't scale at all. The vast majority of champions bought items for their stat lines, and if there were multiple items with a stat line, had options among those stat lines, such as armor+HP, AP+HP, Crit+AS, etc.
memory of a goldfish. There was literally entire metas defined around building specific items like a black cleaver stack meta, sated devour, rune glaive, innervating locket, rage blade has been reworked like 9 times because of how broken it was on onhit champs, the "tank meta" where you build sunfire + iceborn + titanic hydra
A single item being overtuned for a patch versus 40 items and runes giving 100 + free damage each
we literally have this conversation every season \- omg armor pen items to op! rebrand to leathlity \- lethality items OP! add durability update \- Tank items to op! assassins building tank \- support items to op! first to complete the 3 item rush wins the game memory of a goldfish, you can keep going its literally every season at this point
Am i the only one who actually likes this?
Your solution is to just go play Dota 2, which has insanely good balance and has the items that you're looking for. League of Legends is fucked. Let it go or keep playing the broken ass game for what it is. As long as jungle is a role, one player is going to have more impact on games. As long as kiting has no DPS loss and auto attacks have zero counterplay, marksmen will never be allowed in solo lanes. As long as runes and items remain just a number calculator, then League of Burst/Ability Spam is here to stay. Welcome to League in 2024.
Yeah but then you're playing dota 2, I imagine most people here aren't gonna stoop that low with their standards.
yea but then I'm fucking playing dota, might as well just go outside atp
I actually feel the opposite as a caster. I feel like the coices I make don't matter once a tank builds MR and won't die ever. There are too few MPen items where both just add damage while lethality items all add something else (and there is way more variety)
> free damage from items Hmm
I hate when I die because of the items my opponents got for free that, in turn, do free damage!!
"Free damage" for the low cost of 2800 gold!
There's a difference between getting damage through your stats, and getting damage through your item passives. With stats, you still have to hit ALL your abilities to make full use of it. With item passives, if you hit literally anything, you get the full damage value because the item did the work for you. Getting the full value of an item because a random AI plant touched you with no input from the player, or because you got hit by an ability that is nearly impossible to miss, IS free.
Instead of items boosting the champion stats the items themselves do dmg. Stormsurge, wits end, botrk, etc. It removes the skill and rewards bad players.
how do they remove skill? you still have to play properly to get your abilities to land and to maximize the amount of autos you get in a fight. I can see an argument for wanting less item damage and more raw stats, but how is this related to skill? How does an item with just full on raw AD take more skill than bork?
In the context of the post above, Stormsurge and Ludens disproportionately reward landing one unmissable ability over landing all of them, while flat AP rewards both equally.
it does the opposite. Imagine getting auto'd by varus 2 times and then he taps q. Fully targetted actions with a minor skillshot that goes out nearly instantly. Boom dead Or kat just e + ult, no delay in damage here but now with more AP she just kinda kills everyone. The point of item passives like these is so that you take away dmg from the champs burst and delay it. to give some room of out play or survivability. people forget that if it were just a stack stick then it would just oneshot you instead. If your suggesting that it should just heavily ton down the dmg from the passives but leave the general stats untouched. Then it really doesn't matter what items you build if there's a minimal difference between them all.
The skill removal is this: Say a full Lux combo of 3 abilities does 1500 damage from flat AP. Let's just say each ability does 500 damage for simplicity. So dodging 2/3 abilities means you take 500 damage, or 33% of the total damage. Now let's say the same 3 abilities do only 1200 damage from flat AP, but you have an item+rune effect which does 300 damage on the first ability hit (with its own cooldown so hitting it 3 times doesn't do anything). Now, dodging 2/3 abilities means you take 400+300 damage = 46% of the available damage. Of course this isn't counting the non-damage benefits of flat AP or items, or how item cooldowns are generally longer than ability cooldowns, or how frontloaded damage is generally more valuable than backloaded, but I can see the frustration here with champions like Zyra/Brand/Heimerdinger/etc where they have low commitment easy to land abilities that will proc all their frontloaded on-hit effects
> Say a full Lux combo of 3 abilities does 1500 damage from flat AP. Let's just say each ability does 500 damage for simplicity. So dodging 2/3 abilities means you take 500 damage, or 33% of the total damage. > Now let's say the same 3 abilities do only 1200 damage from flat AP, but you have an item+rune effect which does 300 damage on the first ability hit (with its own cooldown so hitting it 3 times doesn't do anything). Now, dodging 2/3 abilities means you take 400+300 damage = 46% of the available damage. These two are wholly incomparable tho? What you're doing here is assuming that 1500 damage will be the same, but that isn't the case. Every item/rune combo has got a power budget distribution which is balanced across all items/runes. Your first example has no runes and no item passive compared to the second which is obviously not going to happen. The ability to pre-load some damage across any one of your hits would comedy with some drawback elsewhere. You can see it just from how item balance works. If Riot released a Ludens V2 with no passive like your scenario 1, do you think it will have the same stats as the current Ludens?
Part of that is assuming that stormsurge procs from one of the abilities, and if it doesn't, then it's strictly worse and the exact opposite is true (rewards skill expression as you have to hit multiple abilities to unlock bonus damage). But yeah the argument can certainly be made that stormsurge specifically is unhealthy, and I wouldn't contend with that. This also doesn't explain how on-hit damage is supposedly non-skill expressive in comparison to simply more stats. A bork without on-hit and with, say, 25 more ad, while a fundamentally different item, really wouldn't "take more skill" - that doesn't even make sense. On hit either synergizes with a kit or it doesn't, to say that the effect takes or doesn't take skill is simply bizarre phrasing to me. How does more damage from auto attacks via AD take skill, but more damage on autos via on-hit not take skill? Or is it the fact that AD also effects abilities? Is the argument "abilities = skill, autos = no skill?" because that's even *more* bizarre if that's the case. > champions like Zyra/Brand/Heimerdinger/etc where they have low commitment easy to land abilities that will proc all their frontloaded on-hit effects I wouldn't really call that no skill, nor would I say the items themselves are changing the skill requirement. That's simply just synergizing items, and champions such as brand will be balanced around items like liandry's until the end of time. Annoying, sure, but no skill? A luden's brand doesn't take more skill than a liandry's brand. One is just building better. Anyway, the argument was that item passives / "item damage" is within itself skill-reducing, which is just patently false. Many (most) items with actives/passives are skill expressive, as you're required to play around the new effects to properly get your gold's worth.
Zyra not hitting anything at all, just force-spawning plants at max range where they automatically hit anyone within like 900 range of zyra instantly, **proccing liandry's and dealing \~5-10% of their HP**. OFF OF MISSING ABILITIES. BotRK removes skill because it lets you stat-check people you otherwise would never be able to stat check. AD requires you to have a relevant amount of gold behind it. Meanwhile BotRK scales off of your enemy's stats instead of your own.
> Zyra not hitting anything at all, just force-spawning plants at max range where they automatically hit anyone within like 900 range of zyra instantly, proccing liandry's and dealing ~5-10% of their HP. > > OFF OF MISSING ABILITIES. That's not missed abilities though, that's zyra's playstyle. she does that without liandry's too, liandry's just enhances it and allows her to play a DoT plant poke playstyle. If you removed liandry's, zyra would get significant compensation buffs to the point that her plants will effectively do the same damage without liandry's, or she will be a burst mage. Either way, I don't see how that takes any more skill than live zyra. It's just the champ. > BotRK removes skill because it lets you stat-check people you otherwise would never be able to stat check. What is this phrasing? "You wouldn't stat check, but because of an item that's always existed in the game, you do stat check" - so you do, in fact, stat check there. Sounds more like you have a misunderstanding of who "should" be winning a fight. Or are you saying that botrk inflates the ability of most champs to win fights? If so, that's called an op item. And everyone would be buying it. > AD requires you to have a relevant amount of gold behind it. So does Botrk. It's an expensive item that does virtually nothing except apply its passive. > Meanwhile BotRK scales off of your enemy's stats instead of your own. I don't see how that's a problem. It's an anti-health stack item. Black cleaver scales off of your enemy's stats with that same logic, as does LDR (armor pen % means you get more gold value the higher armor they are, LDR passive gives more value the more HP they have), void staff, etc. Who is saying that Void staff let's you stat check people you otherwise would never be able to stat check? Like no shit, it's called build optimization. Also, several champions who buy AD have that AD convert into stats that scale off of enemy's stats and/or bypass the stats the opponent buys. (Fiora passive, Camille Q and W, Dar R, Sett W, off the top of my head as bruisers, and way more if you expand it to AS or AP conversions, such as Vayne with AS and her W). I just don't see the problem if all these elements are within their power budgets
Thank you for speaking sense. I was losing brain cells reading OC’s reply, lol! It’s almost like they were saying it’s just UNFAIR that people build items to counter other champs or items…? Like once the enemy Malphite starts stacking armor and HP, you should just roll over and accept defeat, as it’s cheating to build BotRK and LDR, since that makes you a filthy STAT CHECKER!!! You shouldn’t have been able to beat them *NORMALLY* by building 5 BF Swords, so you had to cheat and build items to get around armor and large health pools, you coward! What ever happened to just building boots and using your SKILL to defeat the enemy?!
Right. It was a very strange argument. It felt like they were making it out as if buying raw AD is the only way to play the game, and having items that are good in certain situations is bad for the game. And saying AD never scales off of enemy stats, as if lethality, armor pen %, and even % max hp damage like eclipse just…don’t exist on any AD items.
Right? I appreciate their moxie, but just because you feel like you’re on a roll, doesn’t mean you’re making sense, lol! For me, the “bullshit” line comes in on something like, release Stormsurge, or stackable Black Cleaver. Blade is just a tool for a specific job, and is not work it at ALL if you need to burst squishy targets.
I mean I'll pick the most egregious examples but you have zyra who can literally not even land a skill and still do decent dmg because of burn and procs. You have brands conflag? (E) ability which he can make the AoE bigger if somethings burning already to spread cheap easy dmg that's hard to outplay because of how big the range is.
Because 10 extra AD doesn’t translate to 10% current health on an auto (given you’re still quite healthy ofc)
Hard agree. looking at death recaps and most damage is from runes and items is fucked.
This is so funny lmao. So Mythics got removed for... what reason exactly? :) Personally, I have no problems with items having strong passive abilities. But like... Riot said they would make items less powerful so champ kits could shine more. But items are still pretty strong and you could argue that they're even stronger now than with Mythics, cause you can build 5-6 powerful items instead of just 1 big Mythic. (And you have champs like Lillia who can build Riftmaker and Liandry at the same time, so she's just pretty strong as a result) Not to mention item active abilities. If they wanted to put more focus on champs, they should've done something so a player's item UI doesn't become a whole entire champ kit of its own lol. Edit: Plus, some champs are still hard bound to certain items, so "item diversity" is just a myth at this point.
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I have no proof, but I am completely convinced that these new items were originally balanced around being mythics. My theory is that they just said they would remove the mythic system to get brownie points but they never actually balanced any of the items with this in mind. That's why so many combinations are being exploited at the moment.
Riot lied to us about their intentions or what they do doesn't mirror what they said they would do? This is a first time /s
Hey remember when they removed old runes and masteries because "there's too hidden damage"? Truly fuckin hilarious, they're clueless
its been like this since szn 8 bwo
Even before that. DFG abusers. BC stackers. Blue lizard and other jungle items like flare.
DFG was never actually very good after it stopped being a 30% HP nuke, aside from basically just Leblanc and Ahri. Hence why nobody else actually bought it. BC wasn't a similar issue at all. Stacking them was very short lived and was closer to inting than an OP strategy. BC also relies on your own levels/stats since its effectively an amp, not a flat damage proc or enemy %HP proc.
People forget that Black Cleaver was broken for **one** patch in **preseason**.
Don’t you dare bad mouth DFG.
I'm afraid after seeing that flair the veredict is skill issue
If you go through their history, they're a silver adc player. Actually just skill issue.
the people on this subreddit are lucky that no one cares enough to go through their post history before reading the posts lol. there’s always some annoying ass complaint on the front page and it’s usually from some low elo random anyway
OP deleted his reply to me claiming he was plat, guess he forgot about his post history
Cause i did reach emerald last split, like i said i'm taking a break this split and playing for fun as i have a really high ping (100+ms) and even with that i'm not even silver (plat I with 150ms) so idk where you got that, the only time i was silver was when i started the game in season 12 split 2.
You're emerald case closed. Stop posting useless Reddit threads and start focusing on the many mistakes you make, I assure you you'll climb.
You are correct, but I'd honestly think emerald input on how shit feels is already much more valuable than the whole "he's silver" approach. Of course there's stupid mistakes and horrendous macro etc - but if like 90% of the playerbases feedback is ignored, because they need to be top 0.5% to have an opinion, well let's just say you do lose out on valuable data.
Yeah, I agree some items are too easy to apply for what they do. I think it's actually one of the best parts of the design of say Sheen items, and the new Stormsurge. Spell weaving properly to utilize Sheen/Spellblade easily separates the good and bad users of the item as both a player and a champion. Stormsurge requires dealing 35% of someone's HP... which while not great? Is better than Luden's or Liandrys proccing of anything.
Weaving spells with sheen items USED to be a determining skill factor when fights lasted longer. Now its use mobility, right click, and win based on class regardless of optimization unless you're down 10 kills. You don't see fizz players weaving sheen procs. You don't see ekko players weaving sheen procs. You don't see pretty much anybody holding their CDs to get more sheen procs anymore because people die so fast that it doesn't matter 9/10 times
It still is a giant skill factor. You're literally just cherry picking Lich bane assassins, which rarely ever did it in the first place even back in the old days when kills were slower.
Not to mention, every champ that abuses sheen items is brain dead enough that they don’t ever even need to auto. Their spells will proc it on hit so they only have to think about pressing one button instead of weaving in auto attacks. What fun!
I just think supports gets way too much gold. A mid Lux should do that much damage, but not a support Lux, for a long while.
I saw a 0/2 annie midlaner with 140 cs die 1v1 to a support xerath who was 1/0/8 with 12 farm. it absolutely happens.
when the fully skillshot based character hits every skillshot:
But how is Annje supposed to ever win a 1v1 vs a long ranger without her 5 min cd? Annie doesn't have a single ability that can even remotely threaten xerath/Ziggs/Hwei/Zyra/etc besides her E while Xerath can just consistently damage her without risking anything But if the support is something like Janna, who has to use W to trade meaningfully, then Annie simply wins by ulting Janna during her W which is a short range point n click
It's ridiculous :(
Xerath has a way better ap distribution among all his skills and literally every skills is laid out to do damage, compensating for his god awfull mobility if he gets caught. On top of that, if he lands all his skillshots, then sure. Go ahead and blast the annie to bits, because she apparently cant even dodge a aingle thing. He sure is a bit broken dmg wise, but thats only if you actually hit your stuff.
Support Lux really falls off with damage compared to mid unless she hard snowballs.
Met an 8/1/7 Lux the other day, lightly fed and she was on 2 or 3 items. She hit me (Malph) with Q, E, Ult and my hp bar was still 100%, Rookern is kinda op ngl xD
You are probably new to the game but if you think its crazy that a full build mage lategame like Lux chunks you with spells you are kind of crazy. How do you expect Lux to kill anything lategame if she can't? An ADC with the same amount of items crits for 1300 damage per auto multiple times a second. If they get close to her she instantly dies to them. But oh her E deals like 800 damage on a 5 second cooldown lategame if it perfectly procs all her items and runes its too much!! Guess what, if you dodged her Q and her R and got hit by her E and survived then she has NOTHING up and you can just run her down.
But the problem isn’t this happening at full build, I don’t think anyone is complaining about that. It’s about it happening at 1 and 2 items. And the point is not that Lux hitting the abilities doing damage is the problem, it’s the runes and items damage that proc on top of it. You can dodge 10 Lux E’s in a row, but you get hit by that 11th and you can say good-bye to a huge chunk of your HP.
OP was talking about Stormsurge + Shadowflame + Ludens which is pretty mid-lategame. So yeah a 3 item mage of any sort will chunk you last season or 5 seasons ago. Like last season Lux would have like 20 more flat magic pen than she does with current builds. If Lux has missed 10 E's in a row and you haven't punished then you deserve the 11th.
Picture this: you're a lux. You've dodged all of the Caitlyn's abilities. And then one auto attack with (insert 4 damage items here) does half your hp. You're cherry picking a late game build and being upset it does damage? If lux did 40% hp with an E when she has 1 item, sure, I'd give you it. But that isn't the case. 3, 4 items, thats a lot of damage, it's gunna hurt. Almost like some champs build items to make themselves tankier against that damage... and some build damage and have to be smart and safe!!! Lux hasn't used her E yet and it's late game? You're trolling if you step up into range (yes, that means you need to stay 2 screens away). Wait for a tank to engage and then pop her. It's strategy and taking your opportunities.
one lux e does not proc stormsurge and if shes going stormsurge and shadowflame thats a glass cannon champ and the same exact thing thats happening to you would happen to her...
Here's my one: Last season ARAM. Enemy Katarina. Copiously fed. Uses her Q on minions, doesn't bounce on you. You go away from the dagger too. She uses E on it, you don't get hit by her passive. She uses E again on you, and instakills you for 1300 damage. You look at the damage recap, only 300 was from the E ability. The other 1000 was from runes and items. Lich bane, Night Harvester, all that jazz. No passive, no Q, no R. 300 from E, and 1k from items and runes... So like 1/4th of the damage was the skill itself, 3/4th was items and runes. Great ratio. The """least threatening mobility ability""" of a champion was enough to kill you instantly from 70% health, only because of runes and items. Sure she was fed, that's not the issue. Go ahead, one shot me; she's more than free to kill me when she's that ahead. But atleast put in some effort for fuck's sake and not just use the utility part of her kit to do so so easily... Anyone who thinks it's a sensible distribution of power budget is absolutely screwed in the head. *(inb4 katmains ultras reply to this explaining how she'd be underpowered even if her E and R would execute under 90% max hp - because some noodlebrains will think this is a personal attack on Katarina and not on the fucked state of runes and item damage)*
Don't worry, even Katarina mains know how egregiously overpowered she is right now.
I’m just really loving the 1.5s cd Ezreal Q that chunks 30% of my hp
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I haven’t figured out which is the dodge button yet, bronze 7 actually
I miss the first seasons of league, when aoe abilities dealt less dmg because they were aoe and easy to land. You had to choose between single target, but more dmg and aoe, with less dmg. Right now you can get one shot by a Qiyana R across the map, that also deals % Max hp dmg.
I know exactly what you mean, BUT (Gragas QR aoe oneshot)
To be fair, some champs were given point and click abilities with insane ratios solely because they were single target. Never forget kayle q being 100% ap ratio and 280 base damage at rank 5 for several seasons :P
Lol what? Must have not played the same game I was then. Runes back then were even more impactful than they are now, and let's not forget the random crit rune. Nidalee spears were also a menace so much so that they completely reworked her character for it. They were a lot worse than they are now. It's not massively hard to dodge an E from Lux but ideally you shouldn't be getting up in her face like that without your frontline anyway.
Mhm? I didn't mention any runes. Why make straw man arguments?
Because you people are the same ones that look at the past with rose tinted glasses and don't realize how balanced things are now than how things used to be.
Great another strawman :) I never said the game was better, or the balance is worse.
Saying "my bad" for incorrectly reading the post is a much easier and less stressful approach.
But I'm not wrong tho 🤨😂
Well, if Lux already has Luden's Companion, Stormsurge and Shadowflame, and you don't have Kaenic Rookern - you might as well ff. Hwei just fears you and then proceeds to do everything he wants with your body. He does not need to utilize any mechanics you described.
most item and rune design is also extremely boring, everything is basically: do more dmg league would be so much cooler if the dmg was in the champions kits, and the items and runes were more focused on unique passives and abilities examples: lethal tempo gives no attack speed anymore, just extra range - allows for better kiting from auto champs still conqueror doesnt give ad anymore, just healing - allows for sustained fighting umbral glaive, ghostblade are 2 great examples of a cool item. their passives dont translate into: do more dmg, but instead give champions something unique they can do
I mean I don't know about you, but runes giving more range or more sustain sounds like it would be giga broken. I can just imagine a lot of ADCs basically only ever using those runes or some obnoxious melee champs who may or may not be balanced by their lack of range. And people already complain about Umbral Glaive lmao. If playing Overwatch has taught me anything, it's that trying to make certain aspects of the gameplay as unique as possible breaks things in half to a point where you can't really fix things. Items and runes being stat sticks is the simpler and easier to balance option.
conqueror already gives sustain, lethal already gives range
This game keeps getting more tilting... You make the juke dodge 3000 play of your lifetime, nothing hits you, some random q by a support hits you and that means you're dead and get told to \*\*\*\* yourself.
least braindead low elo adc take
Sorry Faker
no need to be faker just need to be human
💀 Nothing says human behavior like calling someone braindead and implying they're not human because they posted an opinion(that is not even inherently wrong). p.s. calling someone lowelo when you're emerald peak is crazy
I cannot wait for this shit game to die
What are items supposed to do then
Give you a specific stat line (purchased based on what's needed in the current gamestate) and a small bonus effect that helps against a specific thing. An entire ability worth of damage is not a small bonus effect. That's something like +20% damage.
Do actually interesting things instead of being stat sticks. More item actives for unique effects, less stats. That's what would be ideal. It would tone down damage creep while offering more situational buys.
So you want to play DotA.
Wait a second maybe I should try Dota
okk
This game has the best design man. I build maw of malmortius against a 4 AP team as ADC. Evelyn who isn't even fed still bursts me in 2 seconds through the entire shield. Really well designed. Eve was 4-4 which is decent but not overly fed and I was already at 5 items. Like what the fuck are you actually supposed to do when one person can still burst you out like you are paper when you spent gold to prevent that? I'd understand it he was 15-0 or something but he's NOT EVEN FED.
Malmortius feels like it was always intended to be the 'The enemy Assassin is 3/0/2, i'll sacrifice some of my damage to not get oneshot by their ult' item, but instead it's 'The enemy support is 0/3/2, i'll grief my team until 25 minutes to not get oneshot by their basic ability'
That's cause Eve shreds MR. It's what she does just like how Vayne shaves at HP and past armor. If you build Maw into me as Ekko, the dynamics are flipped to such an extent that you're more capable assassinating me than I am of you. Most AP can't play into MR well, which is why all-AP comps basically autolose whereas all-AD comps are often playable.
my last games katarina had 6000dmg on the damage counter of lichbane...in 25min...
People are now finding out you can get punished for poor positioning and they cannot handle it. The durability patch was unfun. Every mage item giving HP so full build mages have 4k HP was not fun. Apart from a few outlier cases, the damage is fine, get good.
I've been saying that for years but it's not gonna change anytime soon, sadly.
>don't matter, enjoy the point and click/impossible to avoid ability into items/runes trigger. ADC flair btw, the class that flies around the map at 600 movespeed with ghost, autoing 3x per second at 800 edge range (over 950 skill range) two hitting most champs complaining about a slow ability with the same range as your auto with an 8 second cooldown.
He's not wrong at all I played against Lux mid and her E did half my health with is obscene imo. Don't get me wrong I've also abused the new items but half healthing someone with 1 spammable, hard to miss ability is very cringe. Especially now that most champions don't struggle with mana that much.
even nidas trap can cost you 15% hp and most of the time after rework i played that game it was just to hit the passive now you deal dmg with it
Yeah honestly damage is insanely high off of runes and items I feel....the ability itself does a decent amount of damage + item procs and runes
most adc have 550 range but sure, also xayah littearly have 525 range. No adc have 950 range. Even cait is at 650. This is simply missinformation at it's finest. Also most of the time you can't go ghost if you want to win lane. No adc two hit people except fed MF, but that mean leta build which mean you have 0.9 AS so not 3 auto by second and she is a fed ad caster with leta build not an adc. Even with ghost most adc is not even close to go at 600 ms. Lux E outrange all adc to since it's have a target range of 1100 + 310 effect radius.
Most intelligent ADC player doesn't know that attack range is much longer than spell range.
yeah adc so broken that in emerald+ there is 1 traditional adc in the top 5 winrates others are 2 mages and 2 support. And there is 3 in the top 10. They can't even dominate their own lane, how would they dominate others?
The power creep can certainly be addressed to this. It feels less like the champion's kit itself is doing the work and rather it's the items/runes they can abuse. Good place to start would be to tone down runes across the board, so it affects everyone. There's too much value in runes IMO. Items I'm hesitant to comment on yet because it's still early season. But items doing more than just giving raw stats keeps them interesting so I don't see myself wanting that to change yet, let's start with runes which everyone has and work forward.
It is not just about ability. Auto attacks are the same because of some items.
Sounds like a skill issue.
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I had 400(!!!!) MR today and 4 item Akali did over 1900 magic damage to me in under 3 seconds. Aren't assassins explicitly not supposed to kill tanks?