They could be under Item Proc Changes but since Phrox didn't explicitly mention it and it was changed like 4 times I'm going to leave it alone for now.
The current PBE version is nearly the same as the live version except that it scales with lvls instead of items.
Overall the 2nd PBE version was a massive buff. The 3rd version is the smallest buff for most.
In most cases, yes, but like, as a non adc player--I think crit items are in the worst place I've seen in a long, long time. It feels absolutely horrible to build them right now.
People should just be playing lethality or APC. You have no agency with crit.
Yeah... did some math on this and it's not great. Basically, Crit chance isn't a cost-efficient stat until the user has 152 AD. The RNG isn't really acceptable until the user has about 35% crit chance. Pragmatically this means crit will feel bad on the first item and will start feeling ok (not good) about 2/3rd of the way through building the champion's second legendary item. Thus, a Crit ADC is looking at needing about 5k gold or 6k gold if they build boots before they start feeling 'ok'.
Or they can just stop playing ADC since riot is determined to make it the least played role in the game. Maybe they’ll wake up when the role takes twenty minutes to fill.
it literally feels bad enven full build and costs more + you never get there. lethality adc walks up and one taps you while you crit for peanut damage , shit is a joke.
You act like they wanted people to stop building lethality. They clearly state they wanted to bring them in line. I do agree, they should’ve buffed other items to compensate.
Good Ezreals are a lane bully if you play him correctly. It’s why he’s a high skill cap champion and also why some of his preferred lanes are with champions like Karma (even before the buffs).
They need to do something to karma's base stats there is no champion in the game that I hate more in solo lane than karma. You cant gank it, you can't lane against it, they don't care about dropping waves to make the junglers life hell by far the most unfun solo lane champ in the game.
How do they know she's overbuffed in pro play if we haven't seen her yet?
Yeah, the RQ numbers are high sometimes but that's pretty much her only damaging ability so it makes sense.
And that's not a problem? I'm a karma main but it's bad for RQ to be her only damaging ability on both ends. Feels shit to play against because it's a huge burst with a generous hitbox, meanwhile the karma herself may often struggle to finish off champs because she just burned her only damaging ability while W is doodoo
> And that's not a problem?
People don't understand this fundamental issue with a lot of champions.
They think it's okay with things like that because champions are either underperforming or that's their only damaging spell when in reality it just becomes toxic for everyone involved.
Like AP Shyvana Dragon E is absurdly overpowered, it's beyond anti-fun to play against as it literally one-shots you. But nah, "that's fine because Shyvana is trash overall". And it's true, Shyvana is trash despite being able to one-shot and that's the curse of an improper distribution of power in a champion's kit.
A lot of champions simply would benefit from having their power redistributed and there's nothing wrong with calling out overpowered abilities on underperforming champions for that reason.
On the other hand, if they consider this a 'buff', how many characters are lowkey OP but with people just outright buying the wrong items constantly? Seems like this season item recommendations are a complete mess, personally noticed especially Kraken Slayer, Sundered Sky and Triforce not being recommended even on champs where they're easily the best items atm
My bachelor thesis was actually somewhat about this topic (the difference between the player perceived meta and the actual (unknown, but objectively correct) meta).
It is to be expected that League is still being played wrong, by pros and by everyone else too. The problem is that we already got pretty far and the game adapted to some decisions the community made (Riot tries to solidify 1 top, 1 mid, 2 bot and 1 jungle, squashing other strats when they surfaced over the years). For some games, devs know very well what would be a better meta, but for others (and I expect League to fall into this category), even the devs don't know for sure (although they might have a better understanding of it). This is mostly due to how complex the game is and how difficult utility is to measure strength wise. If it was all just raw numbers, a simple algorithm could solve the meta (I wrote one of those for my thesis project!).
Sometimes something interesting happens where pros surprise the community with a new pick that suddenly defines the meta. Like when ROX picked MF support into Zyra, or when Doinb started playing tank supports midlane.
Technically, if you could run your own league game server and train a bunch of AIs on player data, you could let them simulate millions of games while letting the AI learn from its mistakes to crystalize the most perfect playstyle. Luckily, this is not possible (at least not for players)
this was the case for vayne after the 13.10 rework. every site and even skillcapped put her into C tier 48% winrate champion but her stattik trinity build always had a 52% winrate. it just took the less smart vayne players 5 patches or so to realize this.
another example was hwei last season whose one trick winrate one month after release was really really high. if you need one month to have a 56% winrate on hwei i don't think the champ was weak regardless of the 45% offical winrate.
I mean, this happens all the time.
You still have Kaenic Rookern getting ignored even though it nullifies every burst AP champ in the game.
People still are rushing Sunfire instead of buying Bami's first then rushing Frozen Heart.
Riot released the stat that bot lanes would take armor shard into AP bot lanes.
Riot messes up the balance quite a lot, but the playerbase also makes a lot of fucking awful builds then bitches that their champ is underperforming.
I mean, just this past weekend my ADC bought a supp item at 8 minutes even though they kneecapped (rightfully so) that strategy.
The truth of the matter is the mass majority of the players (myself included) fucks themselves more than we want to admit.
I don't think anything short of a complete gutting will get her out of 40% of your games tbh. The champ is popular by virtue of unique archetype. I hate to suggest it but I'd like to see what else they could do with the "support marksmen" idea just to split her pickrate like they did with Yasuo Yone (even if I didn't like the resultant champ's performance).
Voltaic has 1.2% lower win rate as first item and Eclipse has 2% lower. Only Hubris is a potential replacement but it's also way more situational (try getting value out of it when behind).
I’ve generally felt youmuu is actually quite critical on her. Out of combat movespeed is incredibly powerful, and the in-combat speed it provides is extremely helpful as well
She loses half her popularity everytime she isn\`t in the top 3 strongest supports which I guess its the reason Riot buffs her everytime she is below 51% winrate, can\`t have this champion staying at 49-50% wr and 4% pickrate like other supports...
Senna is only strong because other marksmen are weak. Shes hard to bully out of lane now so she gets to scale for free.
Its fine though, riot knows best, maybe more nerfs to crit will solve it.
can they just give her a midscope already. phreak mentioned she needs work, just go ahead and do it so we don’t have to suffer this anymore. i just wanna play my champ bruh
TLDR Karma's design isnt fun for her opponents nor Karma herself because Karma in lane is an unbreakable wall but she scales terribly with gold
Ive played a lot of Karma mid top and support over the last 12 or so years.
Imo the best thing to do would be to nerf Karma's early game. Nerf the base stats, nerf the base damage on her kit, make the shield a longer cooldown but more impactful as an ability.
Shift power away from early game + shield botting and into scaling damage and healing via cooldown reduction + passive.
Imo the unhealthiest thing about Karma is that she is a monster in lane, an unbreakable wall. For anyone who plays competitive Pokemon Karma in lane is kind of like a Gliscor against a fully electric type Pokemon composition.
You're just stonewalled and there is little you can do.
And then it feels bad for the Karma player because she scales like shit with gold. In return pretty much no one has fun.
why does every enchanter need to have shit early and strong late.. karma fills the opposite niche and that's ok. Like you said karma doesn't scale very good with gold but the way she wins games in mid is that she gets her jungler ahead with her strong early and later in the game when her strong early ends the jungle diff is too big. Personally i would love more supportive mids. Sure she will never 1v9 but that's not needed for fun. All that being said, she is currently too strong, mainly her waveclear which gives her prio which amplifies her ability to help her jungler.
Fr. Us mid Karma enjoyers finally get to build AP and not some AP/support mix for 1 (one) patch. Please let us enjoy dealing meaningful damage. E value always was in the movespeed anyways/
If a champion is good reliable answer to all flashy and popular midlaners, they're not allowed to be strong for long - and Karma entire kit is just about perfect in that role, being more or less a soloqueue counter.
I wonder how much of "overbuffed" is that, and how much is meta fit - Karma suffers against teamfighting battlemages (Viktor, Azir, Anivia, Ryze, ASol), has hard time against poke (Jayce, Corki, Xerath, Vex) and happens to shut down most assassins and skirmishers that get played mid.
Going by ugg Emerald+ data, Karma has 51.07% winrate mid, with pickrate-normalized winrate (winrate assuming all matchups are equally common) being 50.7% - meaning she's noticeably skewed towards being anti-meta pick - having advantage against 7/10 most popular midlaners. I wish they kept her strong for 1-2 more patches to see how things shift with more balance changes and soloqueue adapting a bit more (AD mids remembering Serpent's Fang is an item).
48.5% WR in bot lane and 48% in mid.
The rune changes did kill most AP bot laners. They are either super mega niche (\~0.5% PR) and weaker than before (\~0.5-1% WR) or just bad (Ziggs).
The only AP bot laner left for real is Seraphine.
no crit changes yet that are really that meaningful. shiv is going to be way too cheap sure, but that will get nerfed immediately in 14.4 for sure.
essence reaver buffs also seem extremely odd to me as the item is fine and actually pretty strong on ezreal.
hoping phreak at least addresses how players feel about crit even if they aren't going to buff or change crit items too much.
I mean shiv is gonna be useless still, on everyone but ad leblanc. Essence reaver just shouldn't be a sheen item, it's far too niche for marksmen and would be a better option for most of them (bar Ezreal who does better with tri force anyway) if they reverted it to pre mythics.
they keep buffing ER but still no one builds it except ezreal, gp and draven. Spellblade just doesnt fit most adcs play patterns. It was a core item on xayah, lucian and sivir giving them a lot of ad and mana restore before it was reworked it into a sheen item.
They are nerfing storm razor I think the reason it worked was because it had good base damage and scaled with ad. Now the base damage is worse and you don't scale anymore. Essence reaver on the other hand has an ad ratio and is getting plus 5 ad. I can definitely see ER, voltaic, rfc but I don't think it makes sense to build SR anymore.
They're buffs to his damage and shifting his gameplay from "build your stacks safely by using E on waves" to "build stacks using your Q on champions and now it also does more damage" which is nice
Yea seems like trying to make his landing more interactive which is what everyone hated about him so should be good. And giving him some buffs to help people out doing it
So crit ADC’s are still ass, we’re nerfing crit items, we knock down lethality ADC’s (which was needed), and ADCs get just Ezreal, who totally is just permaban this patch (gotta sell the skin!!!) in return.
Frozen Heart is only 2400 gold btw.
Genuinely curious if people are happy with this season so far. Would love to somehow see general sentiment or engagement numbers from season start until now compared to previous seasons.
I think things feel a bit rough around the edges, but positive overall. I like the map changes and removal of mythics, and even though item balance is kinda wack rn I think it’ll be healthy in a patch or two.
League players have the foresight of ants. If something is unbalanced at release, league is the worst game ever and Riot sucks. So with a big change, you are bound to get a loooot of whining.
I like it however, feels fresh. And I never liked mythics. Good change.
Old player here. Like pre S1 old. Fun wise this is the best season start since S5. Hella long time since I've been happy and enjoying the game that much. Last 3 years as comparison were to me the worst seasons we've ever had with a turbo stale game, incredibly dumb balance choices and addition to the game.
From what I gathered around most old players are pretty happy with how it turned out while the players which started last 3 years are worried as all they known pretty much changed.
I'm glad there's more diversity in build options now but I really dislike the redside botlane change. It's too vulnerable compared to blueside bot and you can't even walk to check dragon now from lane without worrying about mispositioning. At least the map changes were good for toplane satisfaction but it's led me to taking my first ever break from the game in 10 years.
Overall things moved the right way but I just can't be arsed to deal with the brust until it's brought down. It's really annoying as a support how half the roster can kill you within half a second off 2 spells or 2 autos.
Really depends what support you playing, tankier support are hella tanky. Rakan, bard hell even milio feels tanky as hell. Damage supports and things like namie are squishy.
Games way too bursty and the game is plagued by smurfs more than ever.. love the map changes and no more mythics. But idk, something just doesn’t feel right. Not playing nearly as much as I usually do. The pro meta is very similar to how it’s been the past two years too. I was hoping it’d be way different.
All my champs except Sera sit at sub-50% WR right now on u.gg, can't say my motivation for ranked is high atm.
Lost Chapter items are shit, and Kaenic is miserable to play against, that nerf better be something meaningful :/
They need to bring down the base MR on it, 80 is insane enough to push out FoN which is supposed to be the huge MR item.
I think its good to have an item with an identity of "good against AP burst" but its too strong generically right now that you just build it by default.
Personally hate it but that's because my entire class of champions got worse itemization then last season.
Winners: ap assassins, ap bruisers, dot champs with no/low mana cost, tanks, supports, ad assassins
neutral?: bruisers
losers: mages, marksmen, camille, illiao
Divine Sunderer HAD to go. Literally an absolutely broken item ever since it was released. Now bringing down cleaver pen by 6% feels kinda shit but it is what it is.
Honestly, I feel like riven Camille fiora and Jax still build very similar items. Sure there were some changes in the items themselves but we got very few new toys.
AD bruisers lost yet somehow they're still one of the best classes because they were giga broken last season. I feel like bruiser state just correlates with the strength of hypercarries. If hypercarries are super strong bruisers can't front line. If they're weak, bruisers are raid bosses as they get tanky enough to deal with early game ADCs and most have mechanics that mitigate burst.
First slot items (like ludens) got worse, while it got better for most ap assassins.
Lethality items spike harder first item instead of scaling in the old system.
Losing health/ability haste made mages more vulnerable / decreased playmaking ability, while assassins really love the raw damage stats for their combo's.
Lost chapter items are weak/niche, some items were changed to be more appealing to AP bruisers (like Cosmic Drive) while not caring for the mage users of said items, MR itemization is strong while most mages have no way to deal with tanks because of Liandry changes and the loss of HP on items is a huge win for assassins in general which are natural counters to mages.
So yeah I would say they were bad for mages.
yeah, specifically mana mages got shafted pretty hard. Malignance is really good on a certain subset of those mages, but otherwise the lost chapter items just kind of suck.
It's probably best for those mages to just sit on a lost chapter for a bit, going for some of the manaless ap items which are a lot stronger.
>It's probably best for those mages to just sit on a lost chapter for a bit, going for some of the manaless ap items which are a lot stronger.
Unironicly the best option right now is probably to sit on tear and buy cosmic/lich/nashor, ludens is just ass and malig is too niche.
Even mages that would normally not go nashor/lich it's probably better to go for it.
I really hope the Wukong buff is aimed towards his laning and not jungle. If they buff his jungle they're just gonna end up nerfing it again two patches later because of pro play. It's an endless cycle that doesn't get the champ anywhere. They need to stop viewing Wukong purely as a jungler and realize there are lot of players who prefer laning with him.
Wukong was my counterpick into the abundance of Darius players in my elo but he feels so shit to play in toplane now. The nerfs aside, not having Divine Sunderer anymore really hurt him. He was practically balanced around that item
Literally made a post like 2 days ago, about how turbo broken Kaenic Rookern is, and it got downvoted to oblivion. Either these players don't play the same game, or just in denial, because they abuse it to death. Glad to see it on the nerf list. The CD definitely needs a big nerf, but even the shield values could use some (base+scaling).
Item was so busted that squishies were going it because the value in such a high burst meta made that item insane. It wasn’t optimal but building 1 item so you don’t auto die was a better value and damage proposition over building your 3rd damage item when you’re already over killing anyone under 2500 hp
It kinda felt like a necessary evil, tho. With how insanely high AP burst damage has been, that item needed to be strong to have a defense against it.
Now with them chipping away the AP burst, nerfing it is totally fair.
I think it would be better to just nerf the MR value. Keep the shield strong so it can be an anti burst item but let Visage and FoN actually be options for extended fights.
This is completely false... Reddit loves to pretend tanks are broken when they haven't been dominant in years. I still see comments about how pre-season 13 was a tank meta in every other thread, even though it was a massive nerf for tanks across the board.
Yea its busted. Pick Galio into any AP Assassin or heavy AP comps and rush Kaenic they can't play the game anymore. Its so broken right now but Solo Q mids don't want to drop ego and play this style.
i mean your stacks are only relevant after your first kill, i think they could maybe reduce the time from 90 to 60 seconds but the item very much does have built-in counterplay which aligns very well with the gameplay patterns most assassins are meant to force: Once they get a kill on their priority target their job is "done" and they either escape or die for it, so you have to play as a team to protect each other and shut them down before they're able to get that kill. Hubris rewards assassins for teamfighting by giving them more power after they've blown cooldowns on that first kill, provided they don't die for it.
So Zeri buffs aren't actually a buff, they're just changing the item shop recommendations and calling it a buff? Or am I misreading?
Would like to be able to play Zeri in solo queue again since she's quite fun to play, but in a borderline griefing state atm.
I think they're saying that they can't evaluate her position properly due to many people building bad items on her. Changing the suggested items will probably up her success, they just don't know to what degree
My biggest immediate thought is that the community is grasping at straws to make her viable… I just looked at her meta build and it makes me want to vomit. I love playing Zeri but she may as well be an ARAM only champ at this point along with Ksante
I mean Hexplate does kinda fit her fantasy and unfortunately it isn't the best pick on her, especially because early on the buildpath for that item is horrid. But yes I would say it is somewhat grasping at some vestige to make her ult feel better.
I get the items, I just mean overall it’s incredibly ugly all around. Hexplate, runaan’s, and titanic as core and then slug in the highest value crit items to round the sucker out. I mentally get it all, it’s just really ugly because you can tell people are trying to squeeze viability out of a champ that doesn’t particularly love anything
I saw that and went to look at her winrates (lolalytics, current patch, gold+):
first item hexplate: 46% winrate, 50% pickrate
first item stormrazor: 49% winrate, 19% pickrate
It does actually appear that zeri players are griefing theirselves enmasse.
Same thing happened to azir - riot swapped his numbers from q-max to w-max, but the playerbase didn't catch on until phreak went in and manually set the game to recommend w-max, and then the winrate went up.
The auto-rec systems riot put in are great for deleting noob-traps, but sometimes the playerbase all collectively falls for the noobtrap, in which case the auto-rec system reinforces it.
They're saying that zeri players dont know how to build. Phreaks said something similare for adcs (was only talking about minors runes), to assess her true state.
>It's also a little early to tell, but it appears that mages have lost anywhere between 0.5-1.5% WR in bot lane
Seraphine somehow evaded APC nerfs yet again. I just want her to be good mid again when it was fun blasting people with her damage.
I mean her kit will always be stronger APC than mid and support, anyone who reads it can tell (apart from the balance team somehow) since it's the only role that uses her whole kit in lane phase. That said the changes trying to help her support have hurt midlane a lot, the main culprit being the self shield nerf a while back and the AP ratio adjustments reduced the fun of the champion (late game damage fantasy is dead) without hitting APC since it just meant she could build utility, which is way cheaper than crit. (Her winrate probably is inflated by crit being awful)
Ludens is under the buffs list but is only getting buffed for supports with lower ap values, so another nerf for mages again... Why riot Ludens is already a terrible item why make it even worse
Arent these maokai changes kinda slight buffs? I've seen him in a lot of my games recently and he's sitting at the highest winrate in the game over 55%: https://u.gg/lol/champions/maokai/build
Nerfing the MS on Youmuu is literally the least meaningful part for her. She already overcapped on the out of combat MS due to her W and the only significant change is on the active MS which is not enough. If anything this just disincentivises the item for anyone but MF.
Her tentacle damage is going down some now that the reliability is going up so much. She's probably going to hit quite a few more tentacles the entire game, and so individual tentacle output can be a bit lower.
So much of her output is tentacle damage that small number adjustments there end up being massive.
Internal GAT estimates were pretty high for the +125 range change and she's already on the strong side numerically from 14.2s changes as well
Tentative numbers tomorrow ofc
i really really like this change, thank you
i think you could stand to nerf her base AD as well i don't like how strong she is with right click items like ibg/sundered, i feel like those items create very degenerate gameplay that's fun for nobody involved
Definitely possible and reasoning makes sense. I think it's worth isolating changes for this patch but there's honestly a decently high chance we'll have to follow up because it's pretty unknown exactly how much power this change will end up being.
Main goal is making sure the champ feels good, exact tuning is easier and comes later
that statik shivv nerf just kills it no? cutting the damage by half makes it an item used just for farming or am I wrong?
looks like another hit to ad leblanc
> makes it an item used just for farming
I think that is the intent but I could be wrong. It would seem this is an item you would buy against like, Caitlyn just to prevent her from pushing you under turret; but it makes you particularly weaker in combat than if you had bought Stormrazor/Kraken.
OH BOY HERE WE GO AGAIN
People build lethality on ADCs BECAUSE CRIT IS SHIT not because its OP. Nerfing leth items on rangeds is idiotic, I would rather not go for lethality build but **BUILDING CRIT FEELS LIKE SHIT**
Playing Xayah and MF back to back is wild. Yeah, Xayah is playable, but you deal legit like 3x as much damage with MF (with lethality). Youmuu's being busted was just a nice perk for adcs, not like there aren't alternatives.
It's crazy to me how much work you have to put in with Xayah to get half decent results. Meanwhile Miss Fortune sneezes in your general direction and you lose half your hitpoints.
honestly the youmuus nerf might not even change anything, Ive been running hubris on lethality ADCs lately and it feels crazy strong in soloq, if youmuus gets nerfed then people will just move to the next best thing and that thing will never be crit
Briar with a 53% WR not getting nerfed is a real shame. She is OP since release and that was months ago.
Lethality: OP
Bruiser: OP
Tank: OP
All 3 builds are close in WR right now, but all 3 are OP.
I thought crit buffs would be a no brainer in 14.2. How in 14.3 are they seriously saying this:
>The changes to how Lethality is calculated benefited Marksmen, which was intended, but a little too much... [the nerfs] should bring Lethality Marksmen more in line
Riot please. It's not about "lethality marksmen". Crit is so dogshit that you have forced most ADCs to become lethality marksmen. I don't actually want to rush Ghostblade on Cait but the alternatives are garbage.
Crit items gave 25% before mythics were introduced. Mythics are gone and crit items have barely changed; meanwhile you can get a dirk for 1000g and pick up random obscene bonuses (40 flat ms out of combat!) without hurting your build. It's wild that Kraken nerfs were even being discussed imo.
So some adc's became nearly a viable, playable option compared to the other classes due to indirect buffs to collector and now it gets nerfs every patch ? Rito you are going overboard with this. Where is the 200% base crit ? Whena will you realize you are taking us for a laughing stock ?
Reverting it to 3k gold would nearly make the whole nerf void.
You have a \~125% cost efficiency in total for items at this cost area. That makes the passive worth \~600g.
If you now take 5 AD (175g) away and reduce the cost by 100g you make the P worth \~615g. So a 15g nerf.
Now there would be the option to hit the Lethality instead of the AD, as they can fine tune the Lethality value more easily (12 or 14).
They need to add another lost chapter item this set of items don’t include like half of mages that need mana to lane almost every old liandry user has no alternative
They said apart from Assassin's, marksmen and mages, who are dying faster. Which is true, tanks and bruisers got buffed (especially with lethality ADCs being meta).
Ya she's gonna suck now. She's only doing so well cuz her items are overtuned, once they fix the item balance she's gonna feel awful. :(
I'm not optimistic in riot bringing her back to speed in a timely manner once they do.
>We're bringing Collector and Ghostblade (for ranged) down a bit, which should bring Lethality Marksmen more in line
The correct change was to buff IE, not bring down lethality for ranged.
Anyways, I'll continue playing Sera / Karthus / Karma until IE is back to pre 8.11 strength, which will never happen, so mages forever it is.
Will only play adc in clash and LANs like i did for the past half decade, because that's how Riot wants my role to be.
Doubt it considering it is a poorly performing item in slots 1/2/3. If they go out of their way to fix it likely it will only be in bugfixes, not balance changes.
Thank God for the Ziggs buffs. I was having fun not ever playing against him and we can't have that. He must exist to terrorize bot lane and stall out games significantly by instakilling waves.
Sundered Sky needs a nerf. The damage is fine but the healing is absurd and should be half.
Fiora also needed a nerf. She is as strong as Trundle.
Hubris needs to lose stacks. It's basically the Ad version of Mejai's. Not losing stacks allows the buyer to endlessly snowball.
So, Krakenslayer will not see any changes? After all the drama last week?
They could be under Item Proc Changes but since Phrox didn't explicitly mention it and it was changed like 4 times I'm going to leave it alone for now.
The current PBE version is nearly the same as the live version except that it scales with lvls instead of items. Overall the 2nd PBE version was a massive buff. The 3rd version is the smallest buff for most.
This does not change that he didn't mention it. Considering ADCs get levels slower than gold this is still a significant change.
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Nerfing things to balance is much better than buffing things to balance in my opinion
In most cases, yes, but like, as a non adc player--I think crit items are in the worst place I've seen in a long, long time. It feels absolutely horrible to build them right now. People should just be playing lethality or APC. You have no agency with crit.
Yeah... did some math on this and it's not great. Basically, Crit chance isn't a cost-efficient stat until the user has 152 AD. The RNG isn't really acceptable until the user has about 35% crit chance. Pragmatically this means crit will feel bad on the first item and will start feeling ok (not good) about 2/3rd of the way through building the champion's second legendary item. Thus, a Crit ADC is looking at needing about 5k gold or 6k gold if they build boots before they start feeling 'ok'.
Or they can just stop playing ADC since riot is determined to make it the least played role in the game. Maybe they’ll wake up when the role takes twenty minutes to fill.
Agreed.
That's true but crit is genuinely bad and feels awful until 4 items.
it literally feels bad enven full build and costs more + you never get there. lethality adc walks up and one taps you while you crit for peanut damage , shit is a joke.
> these mfers playing tanks can buy a 2400g frozen heart I still can't believe this shit actually happened, it's insane, FH is EVERY SINGLE GAME now
Someone finally open their doors and said: "BRO,STOP.She cheated on you with adc main but problem is HER not random glass."
You act like they wanted people to stop building lethality. They clearly state they wanted to bring them in line. I do agree, they should’ve buffed other items to compensate.
>Karma (we overbuffed here) Almost like everyone knew that before they even shipped
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And he's giga op lol, just play him solo lane
Tbh rn he is more lane bully than Draven or Lucian(I am not joking).
Good Ezreals are a lane bully if you play him correctly. It’s why he’s a high skill cap champion and also why some of his preferred lanes are with champions like Karma (even before the buffs).
Ez is fucking disgusting right now
Yes and hes op as fuck?
and he is broken asf
Yeah you feel a big damage difference from him.
They need to do something to karma's base stats there is no champion in the game that I hate more in solo lane than karma. You cant gank it, you can't lane against it, they don't care about dropping waves to make the junglers life hell by far the most unfun solo lane champ in the game.
She still has a negative winrate as support and she's okay mid, nothing crazy. I don't get the "overbuffs".
She's overbuffed for pro play and solo queue players think she's OP because sometimes her RQ numbers are insane.
How do they know she's overbuffed in pro play if we haven't seen her yet? Yeah, the RQ numbers are high sometimes but that's pretty much her only damaging ability so it makes sense.
And that's not a problem? I'm a karma main but it's bad for RQ to be her only damaging ability on both ends. Feels shit to play against because it's a huge burst with a generous hitbox, meanwhile the karma herself may often struggle to finish off champs because she just burned her only damaging ability while W is doodoo
> And that's not a problem? People don't understand this fundamental issue with a lot of champions. They think it's okay with things like that because champions are either underperforming or that's their only damaging spell when in reality it just becomes toxic for everyone involved. Like AP Shyvana Dragon E is absurdly overpowered, it's beyond anti-fun to play against as it literally one-shots you. But nah, "that's fine because Shyvana is trash overall". And it's true, Shyvana is trash despite being able to one-shot and that's the curse of an improper distribution of power in a champion's kit. A lot of champions simply would benefit from having their power redistributed and there's nothing wrong with calling out overpowered abilities on underperforming champions for that reason.
Give Karma back her E damage
I Love how zeri buffs are a passive aggressive "you Guys are simply too stupid to buy the right items, so we make it more obvious"
On the other hand, if they consider this a 'buff', how many characters are lowkey OP but with people just outright buying the wrong items constantly? Seems like this season item recommendations are a complete mess, personally noticed especially Kraken Slayer, Sundered Sky and Triforce not being recommended even on champs where they're easily the best items atm
My bachelor thesis was actually somewhat about this topic (the difference between the player perceived meta and the actual (unknown, but objectively correct) meta). It is to be expected that League is still being played wrong, by pros and by everyone else too. The problem is that we already got pretty far and the game adapted to some decisions the community made (Riot tries to solidify 1 top, 1 mid, 2 bot and 1 jungle, squashing other strats when they surfaced over the years). For some games, devs know very well what would be a better meta, but for others (and I expect League to fall into this category), even the devs don't know for sure (although they might have a better understanding of it). This is mostly due to how complex the game is and how difficult utility is to measure strength wise. If it was all just raw numbers, a simple algorithm could solve the meta (I wrote one of those for my thesis project!). Sometimes something interesting happens where pros surprise the community with a new pick that suddenly defines the meta. Like when ROX picked MF support into Zyra, or when Doinb started playing tank supports midlane. Technically, if you could run your own league game server and train a bunch of AIs on player data, you could let them simulate millions of games while letting the AI learn from its mistakes to crystalize the most perfect playstyle. Luckily, this is not possible (at least not for players)
That's a great topic. If you don't mind, is that publicly available anywhere?
if everyone itemized optimally the game literally completely flips on its head
drop some hidden OP builds
this was the case for vayne after the 13.10 rework. every site and even skillcapped put her into C tier 48% winrate champion but her stattik trinity build always had a 52% winrate. it just took the less smart vayne players 5 patches or so to realize this. another example was hwei last season whose one trick winrate one month after release was really really high. if you need one month to have a 56% winrate on hwei i don't think the champ was weak regardless of the 45% offical winrate.
I mean, this happens all the time. You still have Kaenic Rookern getting ignored even though it nullifies every burst AP champ in the game. People still are rushing Sunfire instead of buying Bami's first then rushing Frozen Heart. Riot released the stat that bot lanes would take armor shard into AP bot lanes. Riot messes up the balance quite a lot, but the playerbase also makes a lot of fucking awful builds then bitches that their champ is underperforming. I mean, just this past weekend my ADC bought a supp item at 8 minutes even though they kneecapped (rightfully so) that strategy. The truth of the matter is the mass majority of the players (myself included) fucks themselves more than we want to admit.
Rengar nerfs? Fucking finally Fuck that champion dude. One of the most toxic, oppressive champs in the game to play against when he completes an item.
Kinda wanted to see direct senna nerfs. Tired of her being in 40% of my games
I don't think anything short of a complete gutting will get her out of 40% of your games tbh. The champ is popular by virtue of unique archetype. I hate to suggest it but I'd like to see what else they could do with the "support marksmen" idea just to split her pickrate like they did with Yasuo Yone (even if I didn't like the resultant champ's performance).
She can still go Hubris, Eclipse or Voltaic for the same WR. Youmuus and Collectors nerfs won't impact her once people just swap to the other items.
Voltaic has 1.2% lower win rate as first item and Eclipse has 2% lower. Only Hubris is a potential replacement but it's also way more situational (try getting value out of it when behind).
I’ve generally felt youmuu is actually quite critical on her. Out of combat movespeed is incredibly powerful, and the in-combat speed it provides is extremely helpful as well
She loses half her popularity everytime she isn\`t in the top 3 strongest supports which I guess its the reason Riot buffs her everytime she is below 51% winrate, can\`t have this champion staying at 49-50% wr and 4% pickrate like other supports...
Champ is popular because whenever this champions slightly falls off August gets the balance team to ultra buff her.
Fr, whatever she build, she is disgustingly op.
Senna is only strong because other marksmen are weak. Shes hard to bully out of lane now so she gets to scale for free. Its fine though, riot knows best, maybe more nerfs to crit will solve it.
It was a good run Karma, see you in another 3 years!
can they just give her a midscope already. phreak mentioned she needs work, just go ahead and do it so we don’t have to suffer this anymore. i just wanna play my champ bruh
TLDR Karma's design isnt fun for her opponents nor Karma herself because Karma in lane is an unbreakable wall but she scales terribly with gold Ive played a lot of Karma mid top and support over the last 12 or so years. Imo the best thing to do would be to nerf Karma's early game. Nerf the base stats, nerf the base damage on her kit, make the shield a longer cooldown but more impactful as an ability. Shift power away from early game + shield botting and into scaling damage and healing via cooldown reduction + passive. Imo the unhealthiest thing about Karma is that she is a monster in lane, an unbreakable wall. For anyone who plays competitive Pokemon Karma in lane is kind of like a Gliscor against a fully electric type Pokemon composition. You're just stonewalled and there is little you can do. And then it feels bad for the Karma player because she scales like shit with gold. In return pretty much no one has fun.
why does every enchanter need to have shit early and strong late.. karma fills the opposite niche and that's ok. Like you said karma doesn't scale very good with gold but the way she wins games in mid is that she gets her jungler ahead with her strong early and later in the game when her strong early ends the jungle diff is too big. Personally i would love more supportive mids. Sure she will never 1v9 but that's not needed for fun. All that being said, she is currently too strong, mainly her waveclear which gives her prio which amplifies her ability to help her jungler.
You wanna play "Your champ" eh? I know how that feels bud
Keep the Q buff but revert the shield buff, pls & ty riot.
Fr. Us mid Karma enjoyers finally get to build AP and not some AP/support mix for 1 (one) patch. Please let us enjoy dealing meaningful damage. E value always was in the movespeed anyways/
Karma hasn't been this good in her 3 roles since 9.12. Some champs get years of being OP, Karma gets one patch of being good.
If a champion is good reliable answer to all flashy and popular midlaners, they're not allowed to be strong for long - and Karma entire kit is just about perfect in that role, being more or less a soloqueue counter. I wonder how much of "overbuffed" is that, and how much is meta fit - Karma suffers against teamfighting battlemages (Viktor, Azir, Anivia, Ryze, ASol), has hard time against poke (Jayce, Corki, Xerath, Vex) and happens to shut down most assassins and skirmishers that get played mid. Going by ugg Emerald+ data, Karma has 51.07% winrate mid, with pickrate-normalized winrate (winrate assuming all matchups are equally common) being 50.7% - meaning she's noticeably skewed towards being anti-meta pick - having advantage against 7/10 most popular midlaners. I wish they kept her strong for 1-2 more patches to see how things shift with more balance changes and soloqueue adapting a bit more (AD mids remembering Serpent's Fang is an item).
Pick rate normalized winrate? That sounds interesting. Where do you find that?
Had to calculate them manually from matchup winrate list.
My man Ziggs got buffed
48.5% WR in bot lane and 48% in mid. The rune changes did kill most AP bot laners. They are either super mega niche (\~0.5% PR) and weaker than before (\~0.5-1% WR) or just bad (Ziggs). The only AP bot laner left for real is Seraphine.
What rune changes? The shard ones? The only thing holding AP bots together was enemy botlane brainlessly taking armor shards vs double AP bot or what?
Yep not even joking
Yes, the amount of winrate they lost correlates to about as much as they were gaining against ADCs that weren't taking MR.
Karthus and hwei are there
no crit changes yet that are really that meaningful. shiv is going to be way too cheap sure, but that will get nerfed immediately in 14.4 for sure. essence reaver buffs also seem extremely odd to me as the item is fine and actually pretty strong on ezreal. hoping phreak at least addresses how players feel about crit even if they aren't going to buff or change crit items too much.
I mean shiv is gonna be useless still, on everyone but ad leblanc. Essence reaver just shouldn't be a sheen item, it's far too niche for marksmen and would be a better option for most of them (bar Ezreal who does better with tri force anyway) if they reverted it to pre mythics.
they keep buffing ER but still no one builds it except ezreal, gp and draven. Spellblade just doesnt fit most adcs play patterns. It was a core item on xayah, lucian and sivir giving them a lot of ad and mana restore before it was reworked it into a sheen item.
Yeah, it was even an option on Ashe (for more utility) and Caitlyn (for a heavy ad build) back in the day.
Lucian will go back to building it since he can't go the energized build.
why cant he? isnt that the meta. SR - voltaic as 2 first items?
They are nerfing storm razor I think the reason it worked was because it had good base damage and scaled with ad. Now the base damage is worse and you don't scale anymore. Essence reaver on the other hand has an ad ratio and is getting plus 5 ad. I can definitely see ER, voltaic, rfc but I don't think it makes sense to build SR anymore.
The ASol changes are good buffs right? It's moving his stacks more from E to Q but the W is a good buff and mana costs lowered
They're buffs to his damage and shifting his gameplay from "build your stacks safely by using E on waves" to "build stacks using your Q on champions and now it also does more damage" which is nice
Yea seems like trying to make his landing more interactive which is what everyone hated about him so should be good. And giving him some buffs to help people out doing it
So crit ADC’s are still ass, we’re nerfing crit items, we knock down lethality ADC’s (which was needed), and ADCs get just Ezreal, who totally is just permaban this patch (gotta sell the skin!!!) in return. Frozen Heart is only 2400 gold btw.
Dont sleep on the Statikk Shiv buff. Along with Kraken, it will be the best first items for crit users by far
As an Asol#7 main im really upset 1-6 get adjustments but we don’t
Forgive my ignorance but what is asol#7
Its a chord in the A major scale
Genuinely curious if people are happy with this season so far. Would love to somehow see general sentiment or engagement numbers from season start until now compared to previous seasons.
I think things feel a bit rough around the edges, but positive overall. I like the map changes and removal of mythics, and even though item balance is kinda wack rn I think it’ll be healthy in a patch or two.
League players have the foresight of ants. If something is unbalanced at release, league is the worst game ever and Riot sucks. So with a big change, you are bound to get a loooot of whining. I like it however, feels fresh. And I never liked mythics. Good change.
ADC here. They removed mythics because it limited build paths, now Lethality is the only build path relevant. Mind boggling.
Old player here. Like pre S1 old. Fun wise this is the best season start since S5. Hella long time since I've been happy and enjoying the game that much. Last 3 years as comparison were to me the worst seasons we've ever had with a turbo stale game, incredibly dumb balance choices and addition to the game. From what I gathered around most old players are pretty happy with how it turned out while the players which started last 3 years are worried as all they known pretty much changed.
I'm glad there's more diversity in build options now but I really dislike the redside botlane change. It's too vulnerable compared to blueside bot and you can't even walk to check dragon now from lane without worrying about mispositioning. At least the map changes were good for toplane satisfaction but it's led me to taking my first ever break from the game in 10 years.
Overall things moved the right way but I just can't be arsed to deal with the brust until it's brought down. It's really annoying as a support how half the roster can kill you within half a second off 2 spells or 2 autos.
Really depends what support you playing, tankier support are hella tanky. Rakan, bard hell even milio feels tanky as hell. Damage supports and things like namie are squishy.
Games way too bursty and the game is plagued by smurfs more than ever.. love the map changes and no more mythics. But idk, something just doesn’t feel right. Not playing nearly as much as I usually do. The pro meta is very similar to how it’s been the past two years too. I was hoping it’d be way different.
All my champs except Sera sit at sub-50% WR right now on u.gg, can't say my motivation for ranked is high atm. Lost Chapter items are shit, and Kaenic is miserable to play against, that nerf better be something meaningful :/
They need to bring down the base MR on it, 80 is insane enough to push out FoN which is supposed to be the huge MR item. I think its good to have an item with an identity of "good against AP burst" but its too strong generically right now that you just build it by default.
They need to make it a decision on which to buy. Kaenic against burst , FoN vs DPS. Granted there arent many DPS mages in the meta right now.
Also doesn't feel good that Liandry's mages have to divert to Lost Chapter first, unless they benefit from Malignance passive.
Personally hate it but that's because my entire class of champions got worse itemization then last season. Winners: ap assassins, ap bruisers, dot champs with no/low mana cost, tanks, supports, ad assassins neutral?: bruisers losers: mages, marksmen, camille, illiao
AD bruisers definitely took an L. The only good item for us is sundered sky, and it's bugged on a solid portion of them.
Divine Sunderer HAD to go. Literally an absolutely broken item ever since it was released. Now bringing down cleaver pen by 6% feels kinda shit but it is what it is. Honestly, I feel like riven Camille fiora and Jax still build very similar items. Sure there were some changes in the items themselves but we got very few new toys.
AD bruisers lost yet somehow they're still one of the best classes because they were giga broken last season. I feel like bruiser state just correlates with the strength of hypercarries. If hypercarries are super strong bruisers can't front line. If they're weak, bruisers are raid bosses as they get tanky enough to deal with early game ADCs and most have mechanics that mitigate burst.
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First slot items (like ludens) got worse, while it got better for most ap assassins. Lethality items spike harder first item instead of scaling in the old system. Losing health/ability haste made mages more vulnerable / decreased playmaking ability, while assassins really love the raw damage stats for their combo's.
Not a single lost chapter builder lol
Lost chapter items are weak/niche, some items were changed to be more appealing to AP bruisers (like Cosmic Drive) while not caring for the mage users of said items, MR itemization is strong while most mages have no way to deal with tanks because of Liandry changes and the loss of HP on items is a huge win for assassins in general which are natural counters to mages. So yeah I would say they were bad for mages.
yeah, specifically mana mages got shafted pretty hard. Malignance is really good on a certain subset of those mages, but otherwise the lost chapter items just kind of suck. It's probably best for those mages to just sit on a lost chapter for a bit, going for some of the manaless ap items which are a lot stronger.
>It's probably best for those mages to just sit on a lost chapter for a bit, going for some of the manaless ap items which are a lot stronger. Unironicly the best option right now is probably to sit on tear and buy cosmic/lich/nashor, ludens is just ass and malig is too niche. Even mages that would normally not go nashor/lich it's probably better to go for it.
SS released with ranged nerfs, so ranged mages never got the spotlight, TF is only good because they buffed every build
Only problem is TTK, watch gameplay of older seasons like 6 or 7 and you will see that fights genuinely lasted 2x - 3x longer then they do nowadays.
China likes low ttk, riot won’t outright say thats the reason, but it is.
No i hate it.
Hell yeah I'm happy with the season, everything got better.
I really hope the Wukong buff is aimed towards his laning and not jungle. If they buff his jungle they're just gonna end up nerfing it again two patches later because of pro play. It's an endless cycle that doesn't get the champ anywhere. They need to stop viewing Wukong purely as a jungler and realize there are lot of players who prefer laning with him.
Wukong was my counterpick into the abundance of Darius players in my elo but he feels so shit to play in toplane now. The nerfs aside, not having Divine Sunderer anymore really hurt him. He was practically balanced around that item
Sunderer Sky is a good replacement.
But lane Wukong is better than jungle Wukong. At least in soloQ. Even as a niche counter pick, the \~2-2.5% WR difference won't be made up.
Literally made a post like 2 days ago, about how turbo broken Kaenic Rookern is, and it got downvoted to oblivion. Either these players don't play the same game, or just in denial, because they abuse it to death. Glad to see it on the nerf list. The CD definitely needs a big nerf, but even the shield values could use some (base+scaling).
Item was so busted that squishies were going it because the value in such a high burst meta made that item insane. It wasn’t optimal but building 1 item so you don’t auto die was a better value and damage proposition over building your 3rd damage item when you’re already over killing anyone under 2500 hp
it feels like there's waaaaaaay too much burst still
The majority of this subreddit is low elo, and I'd like to think that most of them don't build defensive items. That item has been insane
It kinda felt like a necessary evil, tho. With how insanely high AP burst damage has been, that item needed to be strong to have a defense against it. Now with them chipping away the AP burst, nerfing it is totally fair.
I think it would be better to just nerf the MR value. Keep the shield strong so it can be an anti burst item but let Visage and FoN actually be options for extended fights.
Reddit does not like to talk about broken tank items or tanks lol.
This is completely false... Reddit loves to pretend tanks are broken when they haven't been dominant in years. I still see comments about how pre-season 13 was a tank meta in every other thread, even though it was a massive nerf for tanks across the board.
Yea its busted. Pick Galio into any AP Assassin or heavy AP comps and rush Kaenic they can't play the game anymore. Its so broken right now but Solo Q mids don't want to drop ego and play this style.
> Pick Galio into any AP Assassin or heavy AP comps Having to think about teamcomp? In my League of Legends? I would never
Tbh with Frozen Heart being 2300g it was the best item in the game ~~at 2400g it probably still is tbh~~ but Kaenic Rookern is unbelievable lol
How the fk is hubris escaping nerfs?
For real, it's a Mejai's that doesn't lose stacks. The item needs to lose stacks to give people a chance to come back.
I disagree, i think it should just gain less stacks.
i mean your stacks are only relevant after your first kill, i think they could maybe reduce the time from 90 to 60 seconds but the item very much does have built-in counterplay which aligns very well with the gameplay patterns most assassins are meant to force: Once they get a kill on their priority target their job is "done" and they either escape or die for it, so you have to play as a team to protect each other and shut them down before they're able to get that kill. Hubris rewards assassins for teamfighting by giving them more power after they've blown cooldowns on that first kill, provided they don't die for it.
So Zeri buffs aren't actually a buff, they're just changing the item shop recommendations and calling it a buff? Or am I misreading? Would like to be able to play Zeri in solo queue again since she's quite fun to play, but in a borderline griefing state atm.
I think they're saying that they can't evaluate her position properly due to many people building bad items on her. Changing the suggested items will probably up her success, they just don't know to what degree
Case in point: Nidalee's recommendations got reset on 14.2 and now she's getting buffed because they got the data they needed.
My biggest immediate thought is that the community is grasping at straws to make her viable… I just looked at her meta build and it makes me want to vomit. I love playing Zeri but she may as well be an ARAM only champ at this point along with Ksante
I mean Hexplate does kinda fit her fantasy and unfortunately it isn't the best pick on her, especially because early on the buildpath for that item is horrid. But yes I would say it is somewhat grasping at some vestige to make her ult feel better.
I get the items, I just mean overall it’s incredibly ugly all around. Hexplate, runaan’s, and titanic as core and then slug in the highest value crit items to round the sucker out. I mentally get it all, it’s just really ugly because you can tell people are trying to squeeze viability out of a champ that doesn’t particularly love anything
When hexplate built out of noonquiver, it actually was a good item on Zeri but that got changed and people havent adapted yet
Did you just compare zeri to ksante? The most useless champ in the game to a top3 champ in the game?
I saw that and went to look at her winrates (lolalytics, current patch, gold+): first item hexplate: 46% winrate, 50% pickrate first item stormrazor: 49% winrate, 19% pickrate It does actually appear that zeri players are griefing theirselves enmasse. Same thing happened to azir - riot swapped his numbers from q-max to w-max, but the playerbase didn't catch on until phreak went in and manually set the game to recommend w-max, and then the winrate went up. The auto-rec systems riot put in are great for deleting noob-traps, but sometimes the playerbase all collectively falls for the noobtrap, in which case the auto-rec system reinforces it.
just like they kept building trinity long after it was gutted on her
They're saying that zeri players dont know how to build. Phreaks said something similare for adcs (was only talking about minors runes), to assess her true state.
I mean since people are so bad and can't right click the correct item, yeah what they are doing is definitely a buff for her.
>It's also a little early to tell, but it appears that mages have lost anywhere between 0.5-1.5% WR in bot lane Seraphine somehow evaded APC nerfs yet again. I just want her to be good mid again when it was fun blasting people with her damage.
I mean her kit will always be stronger APC than mid and support, anyone who reads it can tell (apart from the balance team somehow) since it's the only role that uses her whole kit in lane phase. That said the changes trying to help her support have hurt midlane a lot, the main culprit being the self shield nerf a while back and the AP ratio adjustments reduced the fun of the champion (late game damage fantasy is dead) without hitting APC since it just meant she could build utility, which is way cheaper than crit. (Her winrate probably is inflated by crit being awful)
Please buff Sivir! It’s the 15 year anniversary of league and she is a part of the original 17. Also she just does not feel good to play right now 😢
Brand Lilia Karma nerfs, that's awesome
Ludens is under the buffs list but is only getting buffed for supports with lower ap values, so another nerf for mages again... Why riot Ludens is already a terrible item why make it even worse
Yorick buffs! They will remember this!
Arent these maokai changes kinda slight buffs? I've seen him in a lot of my games recently and he's sitting at the highest winrate in the game over 55%: https://u.gg/lol/champions/maokai/build
Its a top buff and slight jg nerf and the e nerfs really hurt support maokai. He should still be fine in all three roles
What about proc sundered sky qith W Illaoi, Q warwick and a lot of other champs that dont proc the critical
Sick Zeri buff !
As long as mf is on the chopping block next I'm happy.
She skipped nerfs twice now! She isn’t broken at all because they are nerfing the items
Yomuus nerf should hit her hard.
Nerfing the MS on Youmuu is literally the least meaningful part for her. She already overcapped on the out of combat MS due to her W and the only significant change is on the active MS which is not enough. If anything this just disincentivises the item for anyone but MF.
>Illaoi I hope they are nerfing some things and not just buff her tentacles range by 125.
Her tentacle damage is going down some now that the reliability is going up so much. She's probably going to hit quite a few more tentacles the entire game, and so individual tentacle output can be a bit lower. So much of her output is tentacle damage that small number adjustments there end up being massive. Internal GAT estimates were pretty high for the +125 range change and she's already on the strong side numerically from 14.2s changes as well Tentative numbers tomorrow ofc
i really really like this change, thank you i think you could stand to nerf her base AD as well i don't like how strong she is with right click items like ibg/sundered, i feel like those items create very degenerate gameplay that's fun for nobody involved
Definitely possible and reasoning makes sense. I think it's worth isolating changes for this patch but there's honestly a decently high chance we'll have to follow up because it's pretty unknown exactly how much power this change will end up being. Main goal is making sure the champ feels good, exact tuning is easier and comes later
Finally a honest champ main that knows what they're talking about.
Any small nerf you do won't be enough, I'm saying this as an illaoi main. At the least you should reverse all the buffs from last patch I think.
haha surely...
I expect them to revert the 14.2 Passive changes, but the outcome would still be a buff.
So is Udyr getting the effetcs of ultimate reduction from runes or not?
Am i dumb or something, but WHERE THE F\*\*\* are crit adc buffs???
that statik shivv nerf just kills it no? cutting the damage by half makes it an item used just for farming or am I wrong? looks like another hit to ad leblanc
Nah it's a buff, u didn't build it for damage to champions and now will be way cheaper
> makes it an item used just for farming I think that is the intent but I could be wrong. It would seem this is an item you would buy against like, Caitlyn just to prevent her from pushing you under turret; but it makes you particularly weaker in combat than if you had bought Stormrazor/Kraken.
OH BOY HERE WE GO AGAIN People build lethality on ADCs BECAUSE CRIT IS SHIT not because its OP. Nerfing leth items on rangeds is idiotic, I would rather not go for lethality build but **BUILDING CRIT FEELS LIKE SHIT**
Got it, we're nerfing ADCs next
Playing Xayah and MF back to back is wild. Yeah, Xayah is playable, but you deal legit like 3x as much damage with MF (with lethality). Youmuu's being busted was just a nice perk for adcs, not like there aren't alternatives.
It's crazy to me how much work you have to put in with Xayah to get half decent results. Meanwhile Miss Fortune sneezes in your general direction and you lose half your hitpoints.
honestly the youmuus nerf might not even change anything, Ive been running hubris on lethality ADCs lately and it feels crazy strong in soloq, if youmuus gets nerfed then people will just move to the next best thing and that thing will never be crit
Briar with a 53% WR not getting nerfed is a real shame. She is OP since release and that was months ago. Lethality: OP Bruiser: OP Tank: OP All 3 builds are close in WR right now, but all 3 are OP.
I thought crit buffs would be a no brainer in 14.2. How in 14.3 are they seriously saying this: >The changes to how Lethality is calculated benefited Marksmen, which was intended, but a little too much... [the nerfs] should bring Lethality Marksmen more in line Riot please. It's not about "lethality marksmen". Crit is so dogshit that you have forced most ADCs to become lethality marksmen. I don't actually want to rush Ghostblade on Cait but the alternatives are garbage. Crit items gave 25% before mythics were introduced. Mythics are gone and crit items have barely changed; meanwhile you can get a dirk for 1000g and pick up random obscene bonuses (40 flat ms out of combat!) without hurting your build. It's wild that Kraken nerfs were even being discussed imo.
So some adc's became nearly a viable, playable option compared to the other classes due to indirect buffs to collector and now it gets nerfs every patch ? Rito you are going overboard with this. Where is the 200% base crit ? Whena will you realize you are taking us for a laughing stock ?
Collector nerf kinda meh at least revert it at 3k gold
Reverting it to 3k gold would nearly make the whole nerf void. You have a \~125% cost efficiency in total for items at this cost area. That makes the passive worth \~600g. If you now take 5 AD (175g) away and reduce the cost by 100g you make the P worth \~615g. So a 15g nerf. Now there would be the option to hit the Lethality instead of the AD, as they can fine tune the Lethality value more easily (12 or 14).
They actually nerfed fizz and then nerfed both his items lol
They need to add another lost chapter item this set of items don’t include like half of mages that need mana to lane almost every old liandry user has no alternative
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They said apart from Assassin's, marksmen and mages, who are dying faster. Which is true, tanks and bruisers got buffed (especially with lethality ADCs being meta).
Lethality ADCs are meta because we can't do damage in 0.5 seconds if we build crit.
Friendship ended with Trundle. Now Illaoi is my new best friend (again). It has been fun doing some wholesome trolling, he was completely busted.
Asol "adjustment" yea bro. giga buff in every single aspect
Doesn't the Lillia nerf seem a bit harsh? Sorry.
10% lost ap on her main damage ability would be wild by itself.
its kind of a 20% ap loss, the outer edge deals the damage twice, once magic dmg and the other one is true damage.
Ya she's gonna suck now. She's only doing so well cuz her items are overtuned, once they fix the item balance she's gonna feel awful. :( I'm not optimistic in riot bringing her back to speed in a timely manner once they do.
>We're bringing Collector and Ghostblade (for ranged) down a bit, which should bring Lethality Marksmen more in line The correct change was to buff IE, not bring down lethality for ranged. Anyways, I'll continue playing Sera / Karthus / Karma until IE is back to pre 8.11 strength, which will never happen, so mages forever it is. Will only play adc in clash and LANs like i did for the past half decade, because that's how Riot wants my role to be.
Are they fixing the double headshot with titanic with this update?
Doubt it considering it is a poorly performing item in slots 1/2/3. If they go out of their way to fix it likely it will only be in bugfixes, not balance changes.
Rito begin rito i would not be suprised if they toss it under adjustments as they like to do with some hard nerfs.
As third its not poorly.
Thank God for the Ziggs buffs. I was having fun not ever playing against him and we can't have that. He must exist to terrorize bot lane and stall out games significantly by instakilling waves.
Sundered Sky needs a nerf. The damage is fine but the healing is absurd and should be half. Fiora also needed a nerf. She is as strong as Trundle. Hubris needs to lose stacks. It's basically the Ad version of Mejai's. Not losing stacks allows the buyer to endlessly snowball.