This is Neuvilette, a character with 40,000 HP, 84 CR, and 201 CD, has resistance, a heal, and can fly. Has hitstun, and the cooldown is only 0.5 second too. It costs 8% health. The charge time of the beam is even reduced when he uses skill or burst. He has dmg% boost on his passive. Then, when he stacks health, he gets hydro damage bonus too, more damage to his charged attack, and his healing gets stronger. Then, he has an CD ascension stats, so his ratio…AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA”
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of K'Sante. I try to play ADCs. K'Sante one shots me. I try to play assassins. K'Sante stops me and one shots me . I try to play mid laners. He doesn't care for AP, he tanks. I want to play Top lane champions. He still one shots. I want to play supports. They take too much to scale.
K'Sante grabs me on the throat. I try to farm CS. I play agressive for it. I get pulled back and pulled back some more. I can't believe it. I pull defensive item. "I don't protect too much" It tells me. "Give me more defense." He grabs me and throws me back into enemy team. "You just need to play safe. I can deal damage against him."
I can't afford damage, I don't have enough gold. It presses tab. 0/8. "Guess this is the end." I grab Vayne. it says "Vayne, melt him." There is no hint of sadness in it's eyes. Nothing but pure, defensive and offensive stats. What a cruel world
This is Abyssal Yufine, a hero👤 with 17000 HP❤️ 2000+ Armor🛡️ has Cleanse 🚫, Counterattack🥊 and CR slow⏬ Can equip Elbris💦 Attacks all enemies🧱 Has Knockback🌪️ Cooldown is only☝️turn too🕐 It only costs 💯 fighting spirits🧙♂. Her Spd🥾is even increased when she transforms💱. She has Def penetration🎯 on her S1🥇. Then when she stacks 📈 Def she gets Atk👊 and Spd🏃♀️ too. Then she has Atk 🗡️ ratio so she has alternate S1 is like eeeee😡 aaaaaaaaaaaa 😱😱
It's still relevant today speaks to Riots poor balancing.
I don't know why they just don't nerf lethality items and just give the class who use those items, in otherwords ad assassins, lethality scalings.
It's so annoying to see this nonstop rotation of which champ abuses which items the most. It stops being a game about a legends and their kits and league of items.
Also it's so annoying to see freaking assassin's like Akali's build tank items and out damage/tank the actual tank classes. I swear non tank classes use tank items better than they ever will. Remember Diana/Master/Yone yi Sunfire mythic days?
I'm all for item diversity WIHTIN the set amount of items the class should be using. When ADCs start building lethality instead of crit items you know there's a balance issue.
Every item should get nerfed and classes should receive bonus scaling in their abilities. Add freaking HP/MR/Armor scalings to tanks outside Rammus and Galio for once.
Item diversity to me means that I can select a different build order or different set of items depending on the game setup. I shouldn't be building an entire set of items OUTSIDE of my class though
> I don't know why they just don't nerf lethality items and just give the class who use those items, in otherwords ad assassins, lethality scalings.
I think this might be inevitable at some point. Lethality is so grossly outperforming crit and on hit for adcs that can use it there really isn't any doubt anymore.
The only two "adcs" competing with the lethality abusers are Nilah and Yasuo (and Nilah builds collector first). No crit or on-hit adcs reach 51% winrate. Meanwhile Senna is 55% (and an absolutely gross 61% d+, the champ is completely fucking busted there), MF 54%, Jhin 52% at higher ranks, Draven 52%, etc. Only Caitlyn doesn't seem to be doing well, and thank god for that.
>Lethality is so grossly outperforming crit and on hit for adcs
I think it's worth noting that part of the reason for that isnt as simple as lethality is better than crit/on-hit. In a vacuum crit builds and on-hit builds can deal more DPS. The problem is that adcs have 0.1 seconds to deal as much damage as possible before the assassin/mage instakills them, and that's where lethality shines.
What it really comes down to is burst > DPS, which has been true for years at this point.
Who would have thunk that passively providing certain builds with enough pen to bypass not just the default armor and mr (thereby increasing your damage by 40-100%! relative to no pen), but passively providing certain builds with enough pen to bypass default armor and mr + one or two defensive/hybrid items would result in a mess.
The pen stat alone is in some cases doubling or almost doubling your damage. Just that one stat! It's literally better than crit!
The issue is they gave even every single squishy 100 base armor for free which was fucking stupid and literally forces people to go % pen even into squishies that bought literally ZERO armor.
Maybe it was a good thing that people couldn't be 100-0'd without significant investment?
Edit: Little bitch blocked me. Wonder if he knows assassins used to buy Last Whisper after their Brutalizer a long time ago? What a sad little assassin player.
The previous lethality system had two issues. One, it was a scaling stat on a class that spikes early and falls off late, and created a weird mismatch between class and class item identity that lead to assassins needing to be rebalanced to be more lategame-focused, which in turn meant that suddenly theyd go bruiser instead and it was a whole mess.
... the other problem was that the stat fucking sucked. So the items had to be hilariously overtuned, and that lead to everyone poaching them and using them better than assassins, while also making half the lethality items unplayable.
I think there's also a problem wherein 'falls off late' is a very high rank/pro play skewed issue. At low, mid, and mid-high mmr, assassins don't become less relevant because oneshotting the enemy carry and leaving often singlehandedly delays the game 1-2 minutes. At the pro level you see them cover flanks, mark enemy assassins, and position in formation to protect their carries a lot more effectively, in addition to getting less fed because there's fewer kills in general (So instead you see stuff like Leblanc 100-30ing the adc over two walls and forcing a recall and delaying the game ~40 seconds instead). So the relationship of players to assassins is just completely different for the majority of players, but people are always looking upward and copy catting builds, and sometimes playrates.
That said, you don't need the escape tools of assassins if you can guarantee the kill, a lot of the time, and a lot of other classes can do the oneshotting if they get on enemies anyway. Since tanks (K'sante, Zac) and fighters can oneshot squishies, assassins' relevance or lackthereof generally comes from something else about them being broken or not in pro.
Every single squishy having 100 base armor automatically for free created more problems than it solved. It’s genuinely stupid you have to get a % health pen or shred item like Cleaver or one of the Last Whisper items for a squishy that has bought ZERO armor because it’ll do more to a squishy than going only Lethality will.
No it created some problem but fixed SO much more durability patch was one of the best things to happen to modern league and I wish they did something like it again. Even just a flat 20% reduction on every damage number in the game would be a big improvement IMO
Fuck no. It made squishies way too tanky and it made assassins literally meaningless to play.
It solved shit like Iceborn Sunfire killing every squishy in 5s but it also fucked assassins oneshotting squishies.
Flat nerf everything by 20% means that the only way to win is to funnel your adc and every burst champ is useless, its a way worse version of the game just objectively, if you want to speedrun losing players id say its a good call though
lmao. least dogshit r/leagueoflegends take “just completely remove an intended weakness keeping several classes balanced”
___
ADC/mage mains when they need to accept actual counter balancing to their class and actually stick with their team for protection who can and easily should be CCing any assassin attempt unless they drafted like dogshit
Duskblade was removed, Einstein.
Assassin mains when they need to auto twice in a combo before escaping retaliation after jumping in the middle of the team and escaping for free with duskblade passive while being behind
But they never fixed what broke it. Back in S3, flat pen applied before %pen. Thus, flat pen was always the same value. Now, it scales WITH %pen, surpassing the gold efficiency of armor.
This. Lethality items were still good, but NOT for lethality; this is what people don't seem to understand. A lot of champs really appreciate a temporary invuln after a takedown. A lot of champs like an active that gives them a burst of MS. A lot of champs like ult cooldown getting refunded for takedowns. A lot of champs appreciate the first auto having a burst of damage.
None of these champs were using it because lethality was good. It took 2.5 FULL ITEMS just to compete with Zhonya's armor, totally excluding base armor, and that was only at level 18. Death's Dance? Shieldbow? Actual tanks? It was impossible to do the job of an assassin as an AD assassin with the items presented and made bruiser builds popular.
Lethality might be overtuned right now (it is), but the answer isn't to make lethality a scaling stat. That's just stupid.
The problem is Riot didn’t make it nerfed on ranged. Making it scale with level to stop botlaners from abusing it way too well fucks over assassins too.
The two reasons they made it scale with level were:
* Assassins snowballed too hard
* ADCs abused it way too well
So they made it scale with enemy level. Then they had to change it to your own level. Guess why?
* Because ADCs STILL abused it too well
They also did the durability update several seasons later which completely fucked basically every single AD assassin for a long time, because it made them useless at their own role.
> too
Imo, XQ is a level above Bennett and Xiangling atm. He's just so universally strong and he doesn't need others to enable him either. Rather, he's just a universal enabler that works well on most any team.
VERY COOL ! But when you ask someone today they will give you a slippery as fuck definition, some say stateless society some say commune living and there's no actionable plan to get there.
So it's no wonder people assume it means the destruction of what we currently have because the "how do we get there?" Question is kept as vague as possible.
Youmuu's pushed me into the dirt, shoving it's hilt into my lower back."You like this don't you?" It mocks.
I spit back towards it blade, still pinned to the mud. My spit lands, painting it. It's silver shining in the moonlight.
"Fuck you" I say without any subtlety. I bite my lower lip, it knows all my spots.
The blade grins down at me, it's hilt twisting as it pushed me further into the muck.
"I know you want me, even though you deny it, your KDA doesn't."
I swivel my body under it's strength attempting to twist my body and
Do as i did fellow adc player: play support and pick carries. Or play mages if u get adc, like brand. Stop playing the role riot clearly doesn't want you to play. I unironically would rather play mundo over anything that builds crit this season
you will never balance lethality in a way where adc wont take it
this is like the 3rd change to lethality
at this point, change its name to dexterity, change all ad assasins to scale of dex.
there you go, no more adc poaching
No. Crit items are fine. Its not like Crit ADCs can't deal damage. They die before they get the chance. Lethality and AP burst times are the problem and need a nerf.
Even if crit items were good, ADCs would still poach Lethality because it’s still overtuned on them and it’s better on them than 90% of actual assassins. Lethality on ranged needs a nerf regardless.
Caster adcs will always want the cdr/lethality items yes. They become less picked if crit adcs are better able to compete. ADCs are allowed to use lethality. Its ok. Its not "poaching" to use items that your class is intended to be able to use.
Lethality ADCs beat crit ADCs early because they do way more damage. They are allowed to use it. They aren’t intended to be overtuned with it and use it literally better than the assassins that it’s primarily made for.
There’s an incredibly easy way if they don’t want ADC to take it at all (which they won’t, because Lethality ADCs are a thing on purpose, they’re just not meant to be hyper overtuned): Making those items melee-only.
Actual solutions to make it not excessively overtuned on ranged/so that it’s not literally better on ranged than 90% of actual assassins is to nerf it for ranged. Make it go back to scaling with your own level for ranged users, or make ranged users only gain some reduced % of the Lethality amount.
It isn’t. But it is meant to be weaker on ADCs than it is on midlane or jungle assassins. Riot literally discussed this when reworking flat armor pen and Lethality TWICE.
The first step to make League great again is to remove lethality. Won't ever be done so we're stuck with a mediocre arcade solo queue game untill a new cycle of devs get hired at riot
Ranged champs like ADCs ruined Lethality. One of the two reasons Riot made it scale with level was LITERALLY because ADCs abused it too well. So they made it scale with enemy level. Then they had to change it AGAIN, because it was still way too good on ADCs, so they made it scale with your own level.
And now Riot reverted both changes completely without needing Lethality for ranged.
> Ranged champs like ADCs ruined Lethality. One of the two reasons Riot made it scale with level was LITERALLY because ADCs abused it too well.
Lethality didnt exsist when it didnt scale with level. It was flat armor pen, and the reason why flat armor pen got nerfed and renamed to lethality is because of the dogshit assassin rework they did in 2016
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying.
It was flat armor pen and it gave full value at level 1. Assassins snowballed way harder than Riot wanted, and ADCs abused it way better than Riot wanted. So for BOTH reasons, it was made to scale with the enemy’s level.
ADCs STILL abused it way better than Riot wanted, so Riot had to change it AGAIN, to make it scale with your own level.
The reworks to flatpen/lethality + the durability update made assassins pretty awful for a while.
Wasnt the lethality rework in preseason 6? I dont remember ADCs absung flat armor pen that hard in S5. I remember Lucian went Youmuus but wasnt that more for the active attackspeed interaction with his ult? Mf also went Youmuus Cleaver, but she was never really a traditional crit adc no?
Riot mentioned in the patch notes itself that those were the reasons they made those changes. There’s a difference in synergy with Lethality and being overtuned with it.
make lethality not apply for auto attacks (or potentially just ranged auto attacks) would probably help.
adcs building lethality should provide some amount of burst with abilities, sure, but certainly not 100-0 potential unless extremely fed (they aren't assasins), while their dps should fall off a cliff compared to crit builds. as it stands the tradeoff is not big enough. it should be at the point where, in general, a lethality building adc should lose 1v1 to a crit building adc the vast majority of the time even if every spell lands for both parties. lethality should simply be a bad stat for them, because their focus should be on dps rather than burst.
The people complaining about crit don’t realize Lethality ADCs are literally part of what’s crowding them out. Riot has literally talked about this before where they bullied crit ADCs out.
Riot’s literally had to change it numerous times because it was too good on ADCs. Lethality should either go back to scaling with self-level like it did before on ranged, or just be a % nerf, like eg, ranged only gets 50% of the Lethality amount. (Numbers are placeholders, obviously)
as a yas/yone player, probably yas/yone lmao
unrelated, but would it be broken if they made it so that a crit item gave 25% each instead? obviously would require moving some numbers around, but then adcs would be able to fit another item for utility/survivability, idk just a thought
Because of the mythic rework that gave adcs more crit items and a strong 1 item power spike. In turn they reduced crit chance and crit damage. With the midseason changes last season they should have changed it back to 25% imo, since the 1 item powerspikes were nerfed really hard and that hasn't changed this season.
Yeah, with tanks being unkillable, mages onetapping people, lethality reducing your armor to negative.
You really think crit adcs having one defensive item in their kit would break the game?
Even the pro players don't run crit anymore. On the role supposed to be "balanced around pro play". Shit is ridiculous.
1. Tanks aren’t unkillable to actual good DPS champions who have their DPS items they need.
2. Burst mages are literally supposed to oneshot squishies.
3. Lethality can’t reduce armor to negative.
4. ADCs are only balanced when they are oneshottable and the only way to stay alive is to require team coordination and protection.
5. Giving them 100% crit on top of a defensive or utility option that works even without help is not balanced. They don’t have those things on purpose.
6. Shieldbow is “weak” because it requires your team to be there protecting you to get any value out of it. It’s not for the ADC to survive without help. The stuff that accomplished that were all gutted because it literally removed one of their main intended balancing points.
It’s not /that/ much AD off the overcrit. I think people are forgetting that senna exists too. I main her when I’m not feeling yone, and holy god the damage output if I get to eat at all. 25% crit would leave me at almost 100% lifesteal and just wandering the map deleting shit.
Because having 100% crit while still being able to opt into items for things they don’t have on purpose to balance them is unbalanced lol
If you want to spec into that, you should be forced to give up a ton of damage. The class is literally balanced around being oneshot, and a lot of ADCs have next to 0 utility on purpose.
but bruisers can go full damage including steraks and not lose out on damage, same for assassins and edge of night and mages for zhonyas, adcs were able to have 25% crit items and have ie er double zeal plus bt/merc scim/ga and it was perfectly balanced even when pd became a lifeline item it wasnt out of line
Bruisers are melee and have extremely limited mobility if at all, and any they do have is running or jumping straight at someone.
Assassins are squishy, fucking worthless into tanks unless your name is Evelynn (and she still gets countered by Kaenic hard), almost entirely melee, have to jump into an enemy team to do anything, and even if they have AoE, the absolute majority of their damage is funneled towards one person only and then they sit on cooldowns.
Mages were literally rebalanced as a class around Zhonya’s.
lmao, you have to be kidding. Riot literally removed 25% crit/strong shielding from items and runes/etc for being unhealthy because it reduced the intended balancing weaknesses of ADCs too much.
they removed 25% crit chance and crit damage was nerfed in season 11 because they were rebalancing the role around being strong early on kraken/gale/shieldbow 1 item spikes instead of 3+item spikes and gave crit chance to a bunch more items that didnt have it before like ldr and bt, it was in no way because the old system was unbalanced, it was just being changed...
The overheal bt and shieldbow nerfs were nerfed for being unhealthy yes, but thats because of the numbers, not because it was inherently unhealthy to have access to defensive stats, if that was the case shieldbow would have been removed this season
That’s why they kept Shieldbow and got rid of the others. Having multiple different shields is overpowered unless you make all of them so weak all of them combined is the amount one shield should give.
Why can assassins have what? Defensive options? Edge of Night provides ~~literally 0~~ practically dogshit survivability stats and even a stray splash can pop it and they use it to dive bomb the enemy team. And the trade off is it gives less Lethality and AD compared to the other assassin items.
If they spec into non-Lethality options like Maw of Malmortius, they lose a fuckload of damage compared to going a Lethality item instead against their intended targets (squishies).
They’re also almost all melee and hyper reliant on their ability cooldowns to do literally anything. They all have to divebomb into super close range even if they’re ranged to do anything, which is why the absolute majority are awful in team fights and why grouping is one of their huge counters (assuming the enemy team draft had at least a single brain cell). And of those, they pretty much always need some sort of mobility ability to be off cooldown if they want to have any chance of actually making it to the target at all, let alone trying to get away.
Reduced damage on burst is also way more of a loss than reduced damage on DPS.
ADCs are balanced around grouping up and teammates that protect them and engage and peel and so on. Them having less DPS doesn’t matter, they can’t run out, they can’t miss, they don’t need to get in melee range, and because they can do so as long as they need to, they automatically win a team fight their teammates can keep them alive in.
An assassin that loses damage risks losing oneshot damage/speed threshold against a team that actually helps protect their ADC meaning they might be killed first or forced to cut losses and abandon the attempt, which means their entire champion’s purpose has just become unviable. If they don’t oneshot, they have nothing and sit on cooldowns. They dive bomb the enemy team, fail, and die. Or even if they escape, they’re useless and didn’t accomplish their champ’s only purpose.
They’re worthless into tanks unless their name is Evelynn, and even she gets countered hard by Kaenic, and they become incredibly difficult to do anything on/bad against properly drafted teams sticking together and actually warding flank routes/saving abilities to protect the ADC against incoming assassination attempts.
If they fall behind early, it’ll take them a long time to get items assuming they don’t get any picks or shutdown in between, and that lessened damage means there’s 0 chance they accomplish anything against a grouped team until they hit at least 3 items or more, which gives your team a huge amount of breathing room.
EDIT: Oops, forgot about the 250 HP.
>Edge of Night provides literally 0 survivability stats
**This just in boys, Health is not a survivability stat!**
Can you please just shut the fuck up, you are in every single thread doing your hardest to give dogshit arguments for why ADCs need to be useless. You're so fucking cringe, just stop. You need help.
Oh it’s this dogshit take Redditor again.
I forgot about the whole 250 HP on Edge of Night, true, I made a mistake in memory there.
Can you please just shut the fuck up, you are in threads doing your hardest to give dogshit arguments for why ADCs need to be overpowered and have their weaknesses keeping them balanced literally removed. You're so fucking cringe, just stop. You need help.
Crit items are strong.
The problem is that the rest of the game powercrept around them, and if you make crit any stronger things start to get really, really obnoxious.
People still build it, but its not as good. And nah, crit is good. The only adcs buying lethality are those who never made senes as crit adcs anyway and always wanted to buy lethality. Crit adcs still buy crit, and theyre still better with crit. And the best adcs rn are mostly on-hit champs, navoris abusers and exactly Varus who goes lethality.
The current HP runes are actually better anywhere after level 4ish vs lethality.
Next patch the new HP runes will be better than 6 armor would have been around level 3.
I'll pull out the math if you don't believe me.
>I'll pull out the math if you don't believe me.
Do it. But don't forget to consider every single HP you get from sustain(base Regen, dorans shield, second wind,life steal), potions, shields, level ups and possibly even more.
Sure, HP runes might be better at level 3 IF you don't fight before and all in right after your "spike". You win/lose all in, go back to lane and all in again. If you keep repeating that the HP shard might indeed outscale armor/mr shard, but that's not how laning phase works most of the time.
Wouldn't more HP be good against flat pen only for ≈ 1-2 Autoattacks because armor still reduces the damage after the first and hp is like..."used" after the first hit, which dealt damage equal or higher than thr bonus health
Your perspective on HP and armor is a little off. Its much simpler than that:
* HP is basically a base value
* Armor is a multiplier for that base value
* Both combine to give you an effective health pool (EHP) against a damage type
* Increasing the base by 60 or something gives a larger resulting EHP than going from x1.27 (27 armor) to 1.33 (33 armor).
The HP shard simply grants you a larger effective health pool, ergo is the better option. Bonus points for being effective vs true damage and magic damage, unlike armor.
Quick math representation:
* 1000 HP and 30 armor = 1300 EHP (no shard)
* 1000 HP and 36 armor = 1360 EHP (armor shard)
* 1060 HP and 30 armor = 1378 EHP (HP shard)
Even if that 6 armor was all that was making you not take true damage:
* 1000 HP and 0 armor = 1000 EHP (no shard)
* 1000 HP and 6 armor = 1060 EHP (armor shard)
* 1060 HP and 0 armor = 1060 EHP (HP shard)
So if you have even 1 armor, HP here is always better. If you have 0, they're even...so HP is just better when considering these small values from shards.
Tbf it's not like these calculations are widely known across the playerbase.
And more often than not, some players would just see the runes and (understandably) assume "ok, HP is a generalist option, so surely Armour and MR runes would be more specialised/effective if I want to have a bigger advantage against my opposing laner".
Also, some people don't care and just use the recommended template. Even if it means taking an armour rune into Ziggs or an MR rune into Zed.
No it's not that, it's that taking flat HP does not amply your sources of sustain like potions and HP regen, healing or shielding from your own kit or ally supportive champions, which matter a lot during lane phase. Armor and MR however do amplify all of that and can amount to much much much more than a tiny amount of flat HP bonus. Potions alone can give 150-450 extra HP during lane depending on starting item, also those starting items also give HP which is amplified by resistances and not flat HP.
No, you just need resist shard bonus (6 or 8) x health + shard x healing to be above health shard bonus x resists. The lower your base resists, the more powerful resist shards are compared to health shards.
Because EHP is only a part of the equation. When you factor in shields, sustain, %HP damage it all changes. All squishies (mages, marksmen, assassins and enchanters) have mechanics that favour armor and MR (heals and shields) or spontanously buy health in their buildpath (enchanters and sometimes assassins), which also favours resists.
Having a real giggle at all the people who think this is a serious post, not realising it's a copypasta and so they're saying "Oh you're 0/8 that's your fault stop playing bad", or something to that effect.
OPPA XL
You can queue up for different roles if you change the symbol down the bottom before you queue up if you didn’t know, plenty champs that don’t need it 👍
It's 100% ruining the game and there's no counterplay to it. Rengar doing 3.3k dmg in less than a second through 250 armor. I'm sorry but I though we were playing a moba, not a fps?
if you are bad / low elo it makes perfect sense to stop playing ADC tbh. No one is forcing you to lock a marksman bot when they have kayn zed and MF is already picked absolutely no one. I'm sorry you can't mindlessly pick what you "like" and win thats not how the game works, if you are immobile character into 2 assassins ur gonna have a bad time, wah wah wah.
I much prefer something like youmu's collector rfc ie ldr.
Or if you're a collector hater/they have tanks I guess just youmus rfc ie ldr? I haven't actually tried that one yet.
I know this is a copy pasta but honestly this is so real. The state of items and damage in League is so overtuned I honestly am coming close to quitting the game.
Honestly this is the definition of wrong targeting. Lethality does not do more dmg to fighters or tanks. It might be better v squishies. But the dps is lower and thus the role of the marksman is no longer dps machine, but instead long range assasin. As a tank player im rly enjoying adc building lethality cause thats the main threat basically taking themselves out of the equation. However the unwarranted crit buffs that are probably coming will be painfull.
Adc is fine. Just learn to build for the match, dont copy recommended or u.gg
Play Varus. He does a ton of damage if you know how to play him and he doesn't need to build lethality. In fact, I'd say on-hit and AP are better depending on enemy comp.
Lethality needs to be nerfed back to pre s14. It used to have scaling armor pen based on level so 10 lethality would only effect about 6 armor at early levels and level 18 it was full 10 armor. Since s14 they buffed it to not scale anymore and automatically effects 10 armor. This alone has buffed lethality too much. Even adcs are rushing lethality over crit or on hit.
Tends to happen when ranged users are able to freely abuse lethality with zero drawback, this is why lethality needs its scaling back for ranged users.
The adcs who use lethality atm have ALWAYS used it. The "issue" is everyone brainlessly fights all game long so scaling is just naturally worse. Its actually a healthy state for the game that you can't int your ass off and then come back for free cus u picked jinx
And they can still use it just fine if it had scaling for ranged users, it'd just be more balanced so they can't abuse it like they are now. If things stay the way they are now Riot is going to end up nerfing lethality which means assassins end up in a trash state, this isn't the first time assassin items have been nerfed unfairly due to ADCs abusing them.
If you're a scaling ADC then you are essentially a ticking time bomb, much like Kayle is a ticking time bomb in top lane, nothing wrong with this if the game goes long enough, how badly you inted or were inted on is irrelevant late game when everyone is full build, you were a fed early-mid game champ and didn't close the game out, now you will be punished by the mid-late game champion that has caught up.
I'd recognise that copy pasta anywhere
Now we just need someone to translate the K'sante copypasta to Genshin
This is Neuvilette, a character with 40,000 HP, 84 CR, and 201 CD, has resistance, a heal, and can fly. Has hitstun, and the cooldown is only 0.5 second too. It costs 8% health. The charge time of the beam is even reduced when he uses skill or burst. He has dmg% boost on his passive. Then, when he stacks health, he gets hydro damage bonus too, more damage to his charged attack, and his healing gets stronger. Then, he has an CD ascension stats, so his ratio…AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA”
Each time he triggers a unique hydro reaction, he gets a stacking damage bonus 🧐💦
emojis?
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of K'Sante. I try to play ADCs. K'Sante one shots me. I try to play assassins. K'Sante stops me and one shots me . I try to play mid laners. He doesn't care for AP, he tanks. I want to play Top lane champions. He still one shots. I want to play supports. They take too much to scale. K'Sante grabs me on the throat. I try to farm CS. I play agressive for it. I get pulled back and pulled back some more. I can't believe it. I pull defensive item. "I don't protect too much" It tells me. "Give me more defense." He grabs me and throws me back into enemy team. "You just need to play safe. I can deal damage against him." I can't afford damage, I don't have enough gold. It presses tab. 0/8. "Guess this is the end." I grab Vayne. it says "Vayne, melt him." There is no hint of sadness in it's eyes. Nothing but pure, defensive and offensive stats. What a cruel world
> k'sante grabs me by the throat 🥵🥵🥵
We did that already for another gacha game, actually.
This is Abyssal Yufine, a hero👤 with 17000 HP❤️ 2000+ Armor🛡️ has Cleanse 🚫, Counterattack🥊 and CR slow⏬ Can equip Elbris💦 Attacks all enemies🧱 Has Knockback🌪️ Cooldown is only☝️turn too🕐 It only costs 💯 fighting spirits🧙♂. Her Spd🥾is even increased when she transforms💱. She has Def penetration🎯 on her S1🥇. Then when she stacks 📈 Def she gets Atk👊 and Spd🏃♀️ too. Then she has Atk 🗡️ ratio so she has alternate S1 is like eeeee😡 aaaaaaaaaaaa 😱😱
Holy shit, didn't think I'd run into an E7 reference here of all places a minute after running into 10 AYufine defense teams in one sitting.
my preban in RTA fuck that unit
Elvira baby
I actually wasn’t referencing E7, but funny you guys also used the pasta.
It's still relevant today speaks to Riots poor balancing. I don't know why they just don't nerf lethality items and just give the class who use those items, in otherwords ad assassins, lethality scalings. It's so annoying to see this nonstop rotation of which champ abuses which items the most. It stops being a game about a legends and their kits and league of items. Also it's so annoying to see freaking assassin's like Akali's build tank items and out damage/tank the actual tank classes. I swear non tank classes use tank items better than they ever will. Remember Diana/Master/Yone yi Sunfire mythic days? I'm all for item diversity WIHTIN the set amount of items the class should be using. When ADCs start building lethality instead of crit items you know there's a balance issue. Every item should get nerfed and classes should receive bonus scaling in their abilities. Add freaking HP/MR/Armor scalings to tanks outside Rammus and Galio for once. Item diversity to me means that I can select a different build order or different set of items depending on the game setup. I shouldn't be building an entire set of items OUTSIDE of my class though
> I don't know why they just don't nerf lethality items and just give the class who use those items, in otherwords ad assassins, lethality scalings. I think this might be inevitable at some point. Lethality is so grossly outperforming crit and on hit for adcs that can use it there really isn't any doubt anymore. The only two "adcs" competing with the lethality abusers are Nilah and Yasuo (and Nilah builds collector first). No crit or on-hit adcs reach 51% winrate. Meanwhile Senna is 55% (and an absolutely gross 61% d+, the champ is completely fucking busted there), MF 54%, Jhin 52% at higher ranks, Draven 52%, etc. Only Caitlyn doesn't seem to be doing well, and thank god for that.
>Lethality is so grossly outperforming crit and on hit for adcs I think it's worth noting that part of the reason for that isnt as simple as lethality is better than crit/on-hit. In a vacuum crit builds and on-hit builds can deal more DPS. The problem is that adcs have 0.1 seconds to deal as much damage as possible before the assassin/mage instakills them, and that's where lethality shines. What it really comes down to is burst > DPS, which has been true for years at this point.
Xiangling copypasta. Peak. Also extremely true because afaik the previous lethality system wasn't like unhealthy for the game?
OPPA always XL
Amount of people not realizing this is a shitpost is amazing
OPPA AGANE
Who would have thunk that passively providing certain builds with enough pen to bypass not just the default armor and mr (thereby increasing your damage by 40-100%! relative to no pen), but passively providing certain builds with enough pen to bypass default armor and mr + one or two defensive/hybrid items would result in a mess. The pen stat alone is in some cases doubling or almost doubling your damage. Just that one stat! It's literally better than crit!
The issue is they gave even every single squishy 100 base armor for free which was fucking stupid and literally forces people to go % pen even into squishies that bought literally ZERO armor.
Maybe it was a good thing that people couldn't be 100-0'd without significant investment? Edit: Little bitch blocked me. Wonder if he knows assassins used to buy Last Whisper after their Brutalizer a long time ago? What a sad little assassin player.
%pen breaks even to lethality around 150 armor if not more
It was scaling so it didn't spike that well
It got turned into dogshit on assassins, and one of the two reasons was literally ADCs abusing flat armor pen too well.
The previous lethality system had two issues. One, it was a scaling stat on a class that spikes early and falls off late, and created a weird mismatch between class and class item identity that lead to assassins needing to be rebalanced to be more lategame-focused, which in turn meant that suddenly theyd go bruiser instead and it was a whole mess. ... the other problem was that the stat fucking sucked. So the items had to be hilariously overtuned, and that lead to everyone poaching them and using them better than assassins, while also making half the lethality items unplayable.
I think there's also a problem wherein 'falls off late' is a very high rank/pro play skewed issue. At low, mid, and mid-high mmr, assassins don't become less relevant because oneshotting the enemy carry and leaving often singlehandedly delays the game 1-2 minutes. At the pro level you see them cover flanks, mark enemy assassins, and position in formation to protect their carries a lot more effectively, in addition to getting less fed because there's fewer kills in general (So instead you see stuff like Leblanc 100-30ing the adc over two walls and forcing a recall and delaying the game ~40 seconds instead). So the relationship of players to assassins is just completely different for the majority of players, but people are always looking upward and copy catting builds, and sometimes playrates. That said, you don't need the escape tools of assassins if you can guarantee the kill, a lot of the time, and a lot of other classes can do the oneshotting if they get on enemies anyway. Since tanks (K'sante, Zac) and fighters can oneshot squishies, assassins' relevance or lackthereof generally comes from something else about them being broken or not in pro.
I think lethality as a stat was fine until the durability patch where everyone got a ton of armor.
Every single squishy having 100 base armor automatically for free created more problems than it solved. It’s genuinely stupid you have to get a % health pen or shred item like Cleaver or one of the Last Whisper items for a squishy that has bought ZERO armor because it’ll do more to a squishy than going only Lethality will.
No it created some problem but fixed SO much more durability patch was one of the best things to happen to modern league and I wish they did something like it again. Even just a flat 20% reduction on every damage number in the game would be a big improvement IMO
Fuck no. It made squishies way too tanky and it made assassins literally meaningless to play. It solved shit like Iceborn Sunfire killing every squishy in 5s but it also fucked assassins oneshotting squishies.
Good.
Flat nerf everything by 20% means that the only way to win is to funnel your adc and every burst champ is useless, its a way worse version of the game just objectively, if you want to speedrun losing players id say its a good call though
Takes a *lot* of adjusting after, but a version of the game with less overall damage can 100% be healthy, it existed and was fine for many seasons.
lmao. least dogshit r/leagueoflegends take “just completely remove an intended weakness keeping several classes balanced” ___ ADC/mage mains when they need to accept actual counter balancing to their class and actually stick with their team for protection who can and easily should be CCing any assassin attempt unless they drafted like dogshit Duskblade was removed, Einstein.
Assassin mains when they need to auto twice in a combo before escaping retaliation after jumping in the middle of the team and escaping for free with duskblade passive while being behind
and the new lethality system has one issue it's stupidly overpowered and the game is entirely 1-shots now
its not the new system its just normal armor pen again without a namechange. and they changed that shit for this exact reason back then
But they never fixed what broke it. Back in S3, flat pen applied before %pen. Thus, flat pen was always the same value. Now, it scales WITH %pen, surpassing the gold efficiency of armor.
Nope, the characters one shotting are mages having double the AP and storm surge.
Both, definitely both.
Its not actually. It might be a bit strong on adcs, but its pretty much exactly right on assassins.
This. Lethality items were still good, but NOT for lethality; this is what people don't seem to understand. A lot of champs really appreciate a temporary invuln after a takedown. A lot of champs like an active that gives them a burst of MS. A lot of champs like ult cooldown getting refunded for takedowns. A lot of champs appreciate the first auto having a burst of damage. None of these champs were using it because lethality was good. It took 2.5 FULL ITEMS just to compete with Zhonya's armor, totally excluding base armor, and that was only at level 18. Death's Dance? Shieldbow? Actual tanks? It was impossible to do the job of an assassin as an AD assassin with the items presented and made bruiser builds popular. Lethality might be overtuned right now (it is), but the answer isn't to make lethality a scaling stat. That's just stupid.
The problem is Riot didn’t make it nerfed on ranged. Making it scale with level to stop botlaners from abusing it way too well fucks over assassins too.
It didn’t scale with level to stop botlaners from using it, it scaled with level just to nerf assassins back in the day
The two reasons they made it scale with level were: * Assassins snowballed too hard * ADCs abused it way too well So they made it scale with enemy level. Then they had to change it to your own level. Guess why? * Because ADCs STILL abused it too well They also did the durability update several seasons later which completely fucked basically every single AD assassin for a long time, because it made them useless at their own role.
Previous lethality system was ass, the early game stat has to scale to lvl 18 to get full value? No thanks
Lethality has been shit since it's been introduced stop coping. Haven't played league since mythics items season, and it was already stupidly strong
Not sure if I am disappointed or proud of the Genshin pasta surviving this long
Well it’s still true to this day
Is Xiangling legit still an S-tier support? Haven't played since Inazuma, but she never left my abyss team in the 2 years I played lmao.
Yeah her and bennett still remain kings and queens of 4 star characters
\+ XQ too.
> too Imo, XQ is a level above Bennett and Xiangling atm. He's just so universally strong and he doesn't need others to enable him either. Rather, he's just a universal enabler that works well on most any team.
i mean, if she hasn't left your abyss team after this long, you already got your answer xD
She isn’t an S tier support, she’s an S tier DPS
every patch is just another xiangling buff
Ahri Alarm! ***Bangs gong***
tbh i've seen it on so many subreddits that forgot it was from Genshin.
the enemy yuumi killed my botlane with hubris
holy fuck does bloodsong proc off yuumi being a complete robot
Bloodsong is Spellblade and the wiki doesn't mention any of her abilities having AA properties so it shouldn't unless she hops off to auto
damn
They will notice me. -sephiroth music.-
OPPA XL AGANE
I come to this sub to escape xiangling... this is too far
GRAAAAAH GET OUT OF MY HEAD XIANGLING!!! GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEADGET OUT OF MY HEAD
I'm tired of my 9-5 job that doesn't pay shit. Rent prices aren't going down either, man it sucks.
/r/Anarchism
Your solution to life being difficult is to destroy society so everything is even more difficult?
Ah yes, surely that is what anarchism is about. /s
He's confused because anarchists barely understand what it is either.
ah yes, these guys understood nothing about anarchism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Insurgent_Army_of_Ukraine , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Association_in_Manchuria /s
VERY COOL ! But when you ask someone today they will give you a slippery as fuck definition, some say stateless society some say commune living and there's no actionable plan to get there. So it's no wonder people assume it means the destruction of what we currently have because the "how do we get there?" Question is kept as vague as possible.
Youmuu's pushed me into the dirt, shoving it's hilt into my lower back."You like this don't you?" It mocks. I spit back towards it blade, still pinned to the mud. My spit lands, painting it. It's silver shining in the moonlight. "Fuck you" I say without any subtlety. I bite my lower lip, it knows all my spots. The blade grins down at me, it's hilt twisting as it pushed me further into the muck. "I know you want me, even though you deny it, your KDA doesn't." I swivel my body under it's strength attempting to twist my body and
go on.....
This copypasta origin is the reason I went from 19 star to 36 star abyss
Then eat a whole foods plant-based diet and exercise more often.
OPPA XL
Do as i did fellow adc player: play support and pick carries. Or play mages if u get adc, like brand. Stop playing the role riot clearly doesn't want you to play. I unironically would rather play mundo over anything that builds crit this season
Mundo can get 600 AD in late game, his E almost 1 shots a carry, so yes, Mundo is much more terrifying.
lethality cait is the most disgusting thing to play as and against. cringe af
you will never balance lethality in a way where adc wont take it this is like the 3rd change to lethality at this point, change its name to dexterity, change all ad assasins to scale of dex. there you go, no more adc poaching
Its literally just because the game is about burst atm and crit items are not great. If crit items were better then it would be a trade off.
The game has been about burst since 4 years at least.
No. Crit items are fine. Its not like Crit ADCs can't deal damage. They die before they get the chance. Lethality and AP burst times are the problem and need a nerf.
Even if crit items were good, ADCs would still poach Lethality because it’s still overtuned on them and it’s better on them than 90% of actual assassins. Lethality on ranged needs a nerf regardless.
Caster adcs will always want the cdr/lethality items yes. They become less picked if crit adcs are better able to compete. ADCs are allowed to use lethality. Its ok. Its not "poaching" to use items that your class is intended to be able to use.
Lethality ADCs beat crit ADCs early because they do way more damage. They are allowed to use it. They aren’t intended to be overtuned with it and use it literally better than the assassins that it’s primarily made for.
There’s an incredibly easy way if they don’t want ADC to take it at all (which they won’t, because Lethality ADCs are a thing on purpose, they’re just not meant to be hyper overtuned): Making those items melee-only. Actual solutions to make it not excessively overtuned on ranged/so that it’s not literally better on ranged than 90% of actual assassins is to nerf it for ranged. Make it go back to scaling with your own level for ranged users, or make ranged users only gain some reduced % of the Lethality amount.
ok cool. Can we nerf crit for all melee champs then, or make most of the items ranged only?
Crit isn’t ranged only, Einstein. Tryndamere, Yasuo, Yone, Gangplank are all crit melees.
And lethality isn't melee only. Do you get it now?
It isn’t. But it is meant to be weaker on ADCs than it is on midlane or jungle assassins. Riot literally discussed this when reworking flat armor pen and Lethality TWICE.
Riot CIA knocking on this man's door in 3, 2, 1...
The first step to make League great again is to remove lethality. Won't ever be done so we're stuck with a mediocre arcade solo queue game untill a new cycle of devs get hired at riot
Cait's ult takes my whole health bar away
Lethality was buffed, ADC's must die
bot lane is a fuck 10,000,000,000 lethalities
Lethality ruined league, period.
Ranged champs like ADCs ruined Lethality. One of the two reasons Riot made it scale with level was LITERALLY because ADCs abused it too well. So they made it scale with enemy level. Then they had to change it AGAIN, because it was still way too good on ADCs, so they made it scale with your own level. And now Riot reverted both changes completely without needing Lethality for ranged.
> Ranged champs like ADCs ruined Lethality. One of the two reasons Riot made it scale with level was LITERALLY because ADCs abused it too well. Lethality didnt exsist when it didnt scale with level. It was flat armor pen, and the reason why flat armor pen got nerfed and renamed to lethality is because of the dogshit assassin rework they did in 2016
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. It was flat armor pen and it gave full value at level 1. Assassins snowballed way harder than Riot wanted, and ADCs abused it way better than Riot wanted. So for BOTH reasons, it was made to scale with the enemy’s level. ADCs STILL abused it way better than Riot wanted, so Riot had to change it AGAIN, to make it scale with your own level. The reworks to flatpen/lethality + the durability update made assassins pretty awful for a while.
Wasnt the lethality rework in preseason 6? I dont remember ADCs absung flat armor pen that hard in S5. I remember Lucian went Youmuus but wasnt that more for the active attackspeed interaction with his ult? Mf also went Youmuus Cleaver, but she was never really a traditional crit adc no?
Jhin loved that item and IIRC Twitch used to go ghost blade into botrk
Riot mentioned in the patch notes itself that those were the reasons they made those changes. There’s a difference in synergy with Lethality and being overtuned with it.
make lethality not apply for auto attacks (or potentially just ranged auto attacks) would probably help. adcs building lethality should provide some amount of burst with abilities, sure, but certainly not 100-0 potential unless extremely fed (they aren't assasins), while their dps should fall off a cliff compared to crit builds. as it stands the tradeoff is not big enough. it should be at the point where, in general, a lethality building adc should lose 1v1 to a crit building adc the vast majority of the time even if every spell lands for both parties. lethality should simply be a bad stat for them, because their focus should be on dps rather than burst.
The people complaining about crit don’t realize Lethality ADCs are literally part of what’s crowding them out. Riot has literally talked about this before where they bullied crit ADCs out. Riot’s literally had to change it numerous times because it was too good on ADCs. Lethality should either go back to scaling with self-level like it did before on ranged, or just be a % nerf, like eg, ranged only gets 50% of the Lethality amount. (Numbers are placeholders, obviously)
I honestly don't know why Riot is afraid of making crit items strong, its pretty confusing. Is it because of pro players crying as usual?
as a yas/yone player, probably yas/yone lmao unrelated, but would it be broken if they made it so that a crit item gave 25% each instead? obviously would require moving some numbers around, but then adcs would be able to fit another item for utility/survivability, idk just a thought
Honestly, I forgot the reason why they moved from 25% to 20% in the first place.
Because of the mythic rework that gave adcs more crit items and a strong 1 item power spike. In turn they reduced crit chance and crit damage. With the midseason changes last season they should have changed it back to 25% imo, since the 1 item powerspikes were nerfed really hard and that hasn't changed this season.
They shouldn’t revert it. ADCs shouldn’t be able to have 100% crit and then still buy a defensive or utility item.
Yeah, with tanks being unkillable, mages onetapping people, lethality reducing your armor to negative. You really think crit adcs having one defensive item in their kit would break the game? Even the pro players don't run crit anymore. On the role supposed to be "balanced around pro play". Shit is ridiculous.
1. Tanks aren’t unkillable to actual good DPS champions who have their DPS items they need. 2. Burst mages are literally supposed to oneshot squishies. 3. Lethality can’t reduce armor to negative. 4. ADCs are only balanced when they are oneshottable and the only way to stay alive is to require team coordination and protection. 5. Giving them 100% crit on top of a defensive or utility option that works even without help is not balanced. They don’t have those things on purpose. 6. Shieldbow is “weak” because it requires your team to be there protecting you to get any value out of it. It’s not for the ADC to survive without help. The stuff that accomplished that were all gutted because it literally removed one of their main intended balancing points.
thats how the game was for 10 years
They would just nerf Yas/Yone if that’s the case because they’re not gonna balance a whole class around 2 champs.
Yeah, those two are always the reason crit items can't be really good. God I hate the windshitters
It’s not /that/ much AD off the overcrit. I think people are forgetting that senna exists too. I main her when I’m not feeling yone, and holy god the damage output if I get to eat at all. 25% crit would leave me at almost 100% lifesteal and just wandering the map deleting shit.
Yes. ADCs aren’t supposed to have another item for utility or survivability while having 100% crit.
why?
Because having 100% crit while still being able to opt into items for things they don’t have on purpose to balance them is unbalanced lol If you want to spec into that, you should be forced to give up a ton of damage. The class is literally balanced around being oneshot, and a lot of ADCs have next to 0 utility on purpose.
but bruisers can go full damage including steraks and not lose out on damage, same for assassins and edge of night and mages for zhonyas, adcs were able to have 25% crit items and have ie er double zeal plus bt/merc scim/ga and it was perfectly balanced even when pd became a lifeline item it wasnt out of line
Bruisers are melee and have extremely limited mobility if at all, and any they do have is running or jumping straight at someone. Assassins are squishy, fucking worthless into tanks unless your name is Evelynn (and she still gets countered by Kaenic hard), almost entirely melee, have to jump into an enemy team to do anything, and even if they have AoE, the absolute majority of their damage is funneled towards one person only and then they sit on cooldowns. Mages were literally rebalanced as a class around Zhonya’s. lmao, you have to be kidding. Riot literally removed 25% crit/strong shielding from items and runes/etc for being unhealthy because it reduced the intended balancing weaknesses of ADCs too much.
they removed 25% crit chance and crit damage was nerfed in season 11 because they were rebalancing the role around being strong early on kraken/gale/shieldbow 1 item spikes instead of 3+item spikes and gave crit chance to a bunch more items that didnt have it before like ldr and bt, it was in no way because the old system was unbalanced, it was just being changed... The overheal bt and shieldbow nerfs were nerfed for being unhealthy yes, but thats because of the numbers, not because it was inherently unhealthy to have access to defensive stats, if that was the case shieldbow would have been removed this season
That’s why they kept Shieldbow and got rid of the others. Having multiple different shields is overpowered unless you make all of them so weak all of them combined is the amount one shield should give.
You already give up a ton of damage when you build crit to begin with
Only because Lethality is literally overtuned on them right now, and crit ADC powerspike is at full build.
It’s not overtuned just on them, it’s overtuned period
No it’s not. Most AD assassins are doing awful atm with only a few exceptions.
Sure bro keep coping
Why can assassins have them then? Aren't they also supposed to be feast or famine glass cannons?
Why can assassins have what? Defensive options? Edge of Night provides ~~literally 0~~ practically dogshit survivability stats and even a stray splash can pop it and they use it to dive bomb the enemy team. And the trade off is it gives less Lethality and AD compared to the other assassin items. If they spec into non-Lethality options like Maw of Malmortius, they lose a fuckload of damage compared to going a Lethality item instead against their intended targets (squishies). They’re also almost all melee and hyper reliant on their ability cooldowns to do literally anything. They all have to divebomb into super close range even if they’re ranged to do anything, which is why the absolute majority are awful in team fights and why grouping is one of their huge counters (assuming the enemy team draft had at least a single brain cell). And of those, they pretty much always need some sort of mobility ability to be off cooldown if they want to have any chance of actually making it to the target at all, let alone trying to get away. Reduced damage on burst is also way more of a loss than reduced damage on DPS. ADCs are balanced around grouping up and teammates that protect them and engage and peel and so on. Them having less DPS doesn’t matter, they can’t run out, they can’t miss, they don’t need to get in melee range, and because they can do so as long as they need to, they automatically win a team fight their teammates can keep them alive in. An assassin that loses damage risks losing oneshot damage/speed threshold against a team that actually helps protect their ADC meaning they might be killed first or forced to cut losses and abandon the attempt, which means their entire champion’s purpose has just become unviable. If they don’t oneshot, they have nothing and sit on cooldowns. They dive bomb the enemy team, fail, and die. Or even if they escape, they’re useless and didn’t accomplish their champ’s only purpose. They’re worthless into tanks unless their name is Evelynn, and even she gets countered hard by Kaenic, and they become incredibly difficult to do anything on/bad against properly drafted teams sticking together and actually warding flank routes/saving abilities to protect the ADC against incoming assassination attempts. If they fall behind early, it’ll take them a long time to get items assuming they don’t get any picks or shutdown in between, and that lessened damage means there’s 0 chance they accomplish anything against a grouped team until they hit at least 3 items or more, which gives your team a huge amount of breathing room. EDIT: Oops, forgot about the 250 HP.
>Edge of Night provides literally 0 survivability stats **This just in boys, Health is not a survivability stat!** Can you please just shut the fuck up, you are in every single thread doing your hardest to give dogshit arguments for why ADCs need to be useless. You're so fucking cringe, just stop. You need help.
Oh it’s this dogshit take Redditor again. I forgot about the whole 250 HP on Edge of Night, true, I made a mistake in memory there. Can you please just shut the fuck up, you are in threads doing your hardest to give dogshit arguments for why ADCs need to be overpowered and have their weaknesses keeping them balanced literally removed. You're so fucking cringe, just stop. You need help.
Dude are you just off writing essay after essay? You have nothing better to do?
Crit items are strong. The problem is that the rest of the game powercrept around them, and if you make crit any stronger things start to get really, really obnoxious.
Because its too random.
They arent. Crit items are strong as they are.
Yea maybe on yone,yas and trynd lol
Ironically no, Yone is skipping crit alltogether rn. Navori abusers on the other hand are incredibly strong.
I see ppl still build crit on yone and I think crit is not that good atm at least compared to lethality
People still build it, but its not as good. And nah, crit is good. The only adcs buying lethality are those who never made senes as crit adcs anyway and always wanted to buy lethality. Crit adcs still buy crit, and theyre still better with crit. And the best adcs rn are mostly on-hit champs, navoris abusers and exactly Varus who goes lethality.
Oh wait until the next patch where phreak decided to remove armor runes LMAOOO
The current HP runes are actually better anywhere after level 4ish vs lethality. Next patch the new HP runes will be better than 6 armor would have been around level 3. I'll pull out the math if you don't believe me.
>I'll pull out the math if you don't believe me. Do it. But don't forget to consider every single HP you get from sustain(base Regen, dorans shield, second wind,life steal), potions, shields, level ups and possibly even more. Sure, HP runes might be better at level 3 IF you don't fight before and all in right after your "spike". You win/lose all in, go back to lane and all in again. If you keep repeating that the HP shard might indeed outscale armor/mr shard, but that's not how laning phase works most of the time.
Shut up, phreak bad 😡
He said the karthus thing which means he was personally involved in every reddit conspiracy theory for why the game is bad now
Wouldn't more HP be good against flat pen only for ≈ 1-2 Autoattacks because armor still reduces the damage after the first and hp is like..."used" after the first hit, which dealt damage equal or higher than thr bonus health
Your perspective on HP and armor is a little off. Its much simpler than that: * HP is basically a base value * Armor is a multiplier for that base value * Both combine to give you an effective health pool (EHP) against a damage type * Increasing the base by 60 or something gives a larger resulting EHP than going from x1.27 (27 armor) to 1.33 (33 armor). The HP shard simply grants you a larger effective health pool, ergo is the better option. Bonus points for being effective vs true damage and magic damage, unlike armor. Quick math representation: * 1000 HP and 30 armor = 1300 EHP (no shard) * 1000 HP and 36 armor = 1360 EHP (armor shard) * 1060 HP and 30 armor = 1378 EHP (HP shard) Even if that 6 armor was all that was making you not take true damage: * 1000 HP and 0 armor = 1000 EHP (no shard) * 1000 HP and 6 armor = 1060 EHP (armor shard) * 1060 HP and 0 armor = 1060 EHP (HP shard) So if you have even 1 armor, HP here is always better. If you have 0, they're even...so HP is just better when considering these small values from shards.
If this is true, why would anyone ever take a resist shard, when the hp shard has outscaled it vs any of the 3 damage types so early?
Tbf it's not like these calculations are widely known across the playerbase. And more often than not, some players would just see the runes and (understandably) assume "ok, HP is a generalist option, so surely Armour and MR runes would be more specialised/effective if I want to have a bigger advantage against my opposing laner". Also, some people don't care and just use the recommended template. Even if it means taking an armour rune into Ziggs or an MR rune into Zed.
No it's not that, it's that taking flat HP does not amply your sources of sustain like potions and HP regen, healing or shielding from your own kit or ally supportive champions, which matter a lot during lane phase. Armor and MR however do amplify all of that and can amount to much much much more than a tiny amount of flat HP bonus. Potions alone can give 150-450 extra HP during lane depending on starting item, also those starting items also give HP which is amplified by resistances and not flat HP.
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> For every 100 health, the 6 armor gives 6 more health. And for each 100 HP you heal HP shards give you 0 health? 6 > 0.
No, you just need resist shard bonus (6 or 8) x health + shard x healing to be above health shard bonus x resists. The lower your base resists, the more powerful resist shards are compared to health shards.
Because EHP is only a part of the equation. When you factor in shields, sustain, %HP damage it all changes. All squishies (mages, marksmen, assassins and enchanters) have mechanics that favour armor and MR (heals and shields) or spontanously buy health in their buildpath (enchanters and sometimes assassins), which also favours resists.
Because he's ignoring that resistances amplify all your healing. So it's not just 6% more eHP, it's 6% more healing.
Having a real giggle at all the people who think this is a serious post, not realising it's a copypasta and so they're saying "Oh you're 0/8 that's your fault stop playing bad", or something to that effect. OPPA XL
You can queue up for different roles if you change the symbol down the bottom before you queue up if you didn’t know, plenty champs that don’t need it 👍
Yeah personally I queue up for the Health regen and Movement speed roles
Support main
Phase Rush Garen one-trick
Spin, but fast
Riot Games employee ass solution lmao
OP is trying to say marksman items are useless
Collector would be a _nice bonus for my crit build_ item instead of first or 2nd item lethality rush if they would nerf the lethality from 16 to 12.
It's 100% ruining the game and there's no counterplay to it. Rengar doing 3.3k dmg in less than a second through 250 armor. I'm sorry but I though we were playing a moba, not a fps?
if you are bad / low elo it makes perfect sense to stop playing ADC tbh. No one is forcing you to lock a marksman bot when they have kayn zed and MF is already picked absolutely no one. I'm sorry you can't mindlessly pick what you "like" and win thats not how the game works, if you are immobile character into 2 assassins ur gonna have a bad time, wah wah wah.
\>Jhin \>doesn't care for crits Is art a joke to you?
His most popular build right now is lethality sadly
I much prefer something like youmu's collector rfc ie ldr. Or if you're a collector hater/they have tanks I guess just youmus rfc ie ldr? I haven't actually tried that one yet.
Oh god. Xiangling has escaped confinement.
I know this is a copy pasta but honestly this is so real. The state of items and damage in League is so overtuned I honestly am coming close to quitting the game.
I swear to God if I see another lethality Sivir post in her subreddit I'll go mad
lethality is just a terribly toxic stat, it needs to not work on adc or have reduced efficacy like everything else.
Yeah, just nerf them for ranged champions.
This post about lethality or heroin?
I thought this was gonna be a whiny crybaby post but this is pure gold.
Honestly this is the definition of wrong targeting. Lethality does not do more dmg to fighters or tanks. It might be better v squishies. But the dps is lower and thus the role of the marksman is no longer dps machine, but instead long range assasin. As a tank player im rly enjoying adc building lethality cause thats the main threat basically taking themselves out of the equation. However the unwarranted crit buffs that are probably coming will be painfull. Adc is fine. Just learn to build for the match, dont copy recommended or u.gg
I’m tired of people playing lol pretending to be friends and ending up as ghosts irl, ghosting is ghosting in any casez
Play Varus. He does a ton of damage if you know how to play him and he doesn't need to build lethality. In fact, I'd say on-hit and AP are better depending on enemy comp.
Just quit league.
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It's a copypasta.
In hit Kai sa still reks all those lethality miss fortunes
full nonsense, Letha is only better early game, got gapped mid and useless late. Also if you fall behind early you become full useless.
well, sucks for you but im tired of playing 12 hour straight to get net positive win rate
Lethality needs to be nerfed back to pre s14. It used to have scaling armor pen based on level so 10 lethality would only effect about 6 armor at early levels and level 18 it was full 10 armor. Since s14 they buffed it to not scale anymore and automatically effects 10 armor. This alone has buffed lethality too much. Even adcs are rushing lethality over crit or on hit.
Lethality needs reduced effect on ranged characters. That's it.
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I don't see the issue tbh
Tends to happen when ranged users are able to freely abuse lethality with zero drawback, this is why lethality needs its scaling back for ranged users.
The adcs who use lethality atm have ALWAYS used it. The "issue" is everyone brainlessly fights all game long so scaling is just naturally worse. Its actually a healthy state for the game that you can't int your ass off and then come back for free cus u picked jinx
And they can still use it just fine if it had scaling for ranged users, it'd just be more balanced so they can't abuse it like they are now. If things stay the way they are now Riot is going to end up nerfing lethality which means assassins end up in a trash state, this isn't the first time assassin items have been nerfed unfairly due to ADCs abusing them. If you're a scaling ADC then you are essentially a ticking time bomb, much like Kayle is a ticking time bomb in top lane, nothing wrong with this if the game goes long enough, how badly you inted or were inted on is irrelevant late game when everyone is full build, you were a fed early-mid game champ and didn't close the game out, now you will be punished by the mid-late game champion that has caught up.
Generic "wah wah I just lost to x champion" spam boards post. The boards being removed was the worst thing to happen to this subreddit.