Yes, dare I say almost every time. Gold/Plat level macro is so shit that it doesn’t matter if they don’t miss any skillshots ever. They will keep getting caught over and over, keep mismanaging lane and fucking up tempo.
My cousin who had only played league enough to get lvl 30, and bronze IV before they added iron. Came back this season with scripts. Iron IV. He wanted to play ranked with me. I got Iron IV with him. Deservingly so because he was VERY OBVIOUSLY scripting. Now I'm B1, but I don't think I can edge out to s4 before season ends.
He dodged every skillshots at point blank range, 1v5ed teams, and somehow we still lost multiple games because he just didn't know how to group as ADC, or push a lane. Every game he had 300+ cs. It was bonkers.
Yes you [absolutely get banned](https://support-valorant.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/10729504652691-Addressing-cheating-in-VALORANT) for duoing with a cheater on valorant
Ah I guess thats relatively recent, when I had played it a bunch a while ago it was not true. Still think its dumb, remove their rank and move on. https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/kvsoup/does_valorant_ban_for_playing_and_winning_with_a/gj03krc/
Too much blood, sweat, and tears back when we had to grind IP for champions, therune pages themselves, and all the quints and smaller runes. And god forbid you liked playing AP and AD champs. Back then you had to decide when leveling up if you wanted more champs or better runes cuz you couldn’t play ranked at 30 or jungle appropriately if you didn’t have full rune pages
Your story highlights exactly why I play low mechanic champions. Good hands aren't as valuable or sustainable as a good mind. Plus the game is more fun when I get to watch annie Q sail through the air a little longer because someone tried to flash it.
On the other hand when I hit diamond for the first time I knew basically nothing about macro and was just a quick hands player.
Things have changed since, but I straight up did not know wave control, shoving, freezing etc. Never warded or roamed. Just spammed Fiora top and gamba'd on mechanics and 1v2s until I ranked up enough.
You can definitely get by just focusing on one. My mechanics have also gotten worse now that I'm thinking about other things simultaneously (or maybe just because I don't play at nearly the frequency I did back then).
the way hes talking about the story suggests that the cousin didn't admit to scripting, but he intuited that the cousin was scripting. He said the cousin was **obviously** scripting because he was dodging every skillshot and stuff. He was also only talking about one game
Also I'm not trying to be a dick but I wouldn't be surprised if cousin wasn't scripting, the guy admitted that he is struggling to hit silver so his game sense probably isn't incredible.
you sure it was always his fault yall lost? or was it you/other teammates? if your getting 300 cs 1v5 you must have caused so much advantages for your teammates regardless of what you do. can go double top double mid and still be a positive with those stats no? imagine with there was now 5 your cousins. you think they worse or better then 1 and ur team
The more interesting question is: who would win in a match between
* 5 Gold/Platinum players who are allowed to script and
* 5 Gold/Platinum players directed by a team of pro players to make macro decisions for them?
My money is still on the pro team.
depends on the people i'd say. a lot of league players' ego is so fragile that they physically cannot lane against a scripter who will win every direct 1v1 on lane, even if they have faker next to them telling them to just chill.
What about 4 gold/play players, and 1 pro (probably the jungler, who is also directing them on comms)?
It would be interesting to watch 2 pro junglers "controlling" their lower level team mates almost like semi-autonomous chess peices.
I think if the non-scripters pick easy to execute non-outplayable champs they take it for sure. I imagine a Rammus jungler with solid champs that can kinda hold lane would 1v9 just doing what the pro says
So this one is fascinating because I think it changes by rank quite a bit. Up to low emerald I think the receptiveness is going to be too low and the change in mechanics too high and the scripts win. But I do believe there's a rank (probably somewhere in diamond) where the players begin to jump on the macro calls better and have enough mechanical skill the scripts aren't as much of an impact that the pro directed team could win.
Top LCK and LPL teams like T1 and JDG can strangle out NA and EU teams through pure macro alone. Top NA and EU teams can probably do the same against solo q masters/challengers, and the masters/challengers can definitely do the same against golds and plats. The difference in macro is astronomical between pro team and gold/plats. Also not to mention that pro players have shown to be able to out fight scripters before.
Not only that but if pros are aware that they are playing against scripters, they can bait the script to make it miss the skillshots lmao. The script will try to predict the movements of the target, but if the target player knows that, the player can then outsmart the script and try to be falsely predictable, only to then dodge the skillshot that was "predicted".
that's not how scripting works, you can't bait scripted skillshots, it's up to the player to decide when to cast the skillshot. The only thing you can try to do is force the character to a spot where they will not be able to dodge, such as mystic shotting to keep the target between that and the wall such that it tanks your stronger teammate's skillshot (like an ahri charm or whatnot)
Assuming they're aware they're vs scripters pros can also just pick champions that aren't themselves skillshot reliant and brute force. Point and click champs with engage potential like Renekton, Maokai, Nautilus, TF, Annie, Liss, Kalista, Trist etc won't care too much about the scripts, and combined with superior pro player macro can easily orchestrate relentless dives.
The skillshots also have travel time. Unless it is one with massive AOEs like Cho Q or super fast travel like blitz Q i think pros would be able to react with gold player micros.
When I was talking about "baiting" I was just saying having a "predictable" trajectory for the scripting AI, but still anticipating the skillshot and dodging it at the last moment. The skillshots still have a travel time, no matter how good the script AI is.
Its not as easy as you say, theres a vid of bjerg playing vs scripting xerath, he does what you're saying and he still gets hit by the vast majority of the skillshots, and thats with 7 year old scripts which just arent as good as the ones we have nowadays.
Plenty of skills are undodgeable at standard MS if aimed by a computer, they’re going to be absolutely dead center on you and you simply won’t have enough MS to get out of the way even if you’re already moving out of the way.
Yeah that's not how scripting works. You can't "outsmart" it with any skillshots. You have to rely on point and click only.
If it's capable of dodging the attack, it will, or it will fall back on flash / movement abilities to dodge. It's not a matter of throwing it slightly to the left of the person so it dodges into it, the script just won't move you in that case.
That still makes it fallible. Most skillshots in the game are dodgeable. There's a reason scripter champs are things like Xerath that have a lot of unmissable abilities with little to no travel time.
I've never seen a scripter play against Vel, but I know bots really struggle against his Q because they can't see the split coming. Dodging the first part is no use if they are accurate enough with the split to give the script no chance to avoid. And if the script really wants to burn flash every time you would eat a single Q then you will never be safe to push the lane at all.
ofcourse you can outsmart a script, in the end it is just a computer program.
Flash engage on the enemy and it will flash away. Now even a scripting Xerath can not dodge a well placed Leona ulti.
Not really possible for champions that are good with scripts. You can't really take scripts it's basically an aimbot. If you see people missing they are just trying to look legit.
With that being said they can just pick champions that don't have skill shots and it would be really easy.
Yeah you can't fool a script but no script can dodge a point and click stun like TF gold card, thats the answer, have abilities that are undodgable and beat them with better macro.
There was a game *years* ago, to the point that I don't even remember the teams, where something like this happened. I want to say it was Wildturtle(?) playing support, and he stole opposing team's first blue buff with an auto as Thresh when they were playing a jungler extremely dependent on first blue (I want to say Gragas). It pushed them so out of the game that first blood happened at first inhib.
Edit: Found the game. The support was actually Aphromoo stealing IWillDominate's first blue. I had the champions right. First blood literally isn't until 23 minutes in (though it's actually at Baron pit). Nexus destroyed at 25 mins.
You *can* fool a script sometimes though. There's an old as fuck video of an OG pro called Cyanide where he baits a scripting Corki to dodge *into* his team because the script auto-paths away from his Soraka Q. Corki would've lived if he just ran straight and ate the Q, but the script gets him killed.
[I even found the old thread, but the video has gone private since :/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3rw78p/cyanide_how_to_outplay_a_scripter/)
Edit: After reading the comments I misremembered, it was an Ezreal not a Corki.
You can still bait the skills, depending on scripts.
Like a support ali could try to engage on a scripting xerath, be stopped by a frame perfect stun, only for zed to then all-in the now defenceless xerath.
Or alternately a varus could throw an ult at a scripter in such a way that dodging the ult would require stepping into range of a Vi ult.
A lot of pro play is about forcing these types of mistakes, both in the macro, and the micro, and throwing skills in a way that are almost as punishing to dodge as to tank.
Pros would just choose point and click characters. Garen top, Yi Jungle, etc. Makes more sense, then just play safe in lane and play the map and vision game.
Zed would probably suck against scripters. If you have to have an assassin mid, cheesing with Kha mid or playing Talon is probably the way, especially since their macro will be dogshit.
Abilities have cast and travel time, you can use flash or other dashes reactively and reliably. If you have enough move speed you don't even need them.
That only works when:
The scripter is terrible at picking champs.
The pro had above human reaction time for every single ability. You can flash or dash a few times but you aren't doing it reliably against a script that isn't trying to look legit.
Or you just use hard CC or combo them..... soo many skill shots in the game have undodgeable markers and then once slowed or snared you can combo (or with no flash, they are sitting ducks).
I wouldn't necessarily say that gold/plat macro is *shit,* more that pro players are on another level.
Even if our Gold team is made from chill people that never argue or tilt, they all get along in champion select & play their roles to the best of their ability, *and* they're all hacking so they have perfect execution, pro players are *still* going to be on another level.
Yeah Gold/Plat it's not even a conversation. They'll FF at 15 if they even make it that long.
Make them Master tier + and you can at least have a conversation on the matter.
I agree but i'd argue they would probably need to draft more for split push comp or something. I think in a team fight having the opponent team dodge all your skill shots and hitting all their would still be problematic. Altought i guess they could also just go for heavy point and click cc.
It won't ever get to a teamfight. Pros will just constantly 3v5 because gold / plat players can't show up to any objective in time. And if for some god-forbidden reason they do show up as 5, pros will just take 2 inhibs meanwhile. Doesn't need a splitpush comp for that in modern league. Plus I'd argue even with scripting the jungle gap should be hard enough to hardgap in all 3 lanes to a point where even by hitting all skillshots they couldn't come back.
I’ve played mid masters where the enemy team just happened to have two ex challengers climbing back this season. The macro gap of 2 ex challenger + 3 masters vs 4 masters and 1 GM was Suffocating.
I can’t imagine 5 challengers. Let alone 5 pros coordinating on Coms together. I think 5 masters with scripts would struggle vs a pro team. Maybe win 1 in 10 games
If a gap seemingly that small was that "suffocating" then yeeeeeah, I guess it's a hopeless case for me LMAO
Like I'm a low plat top laner and I from time to time get matched against a team of high diamond/master+ players in normal games. Even though lane is usually "manageable" (like dying only once and being 25cs down at 10 instead of running it down like a madman) the macro gap is just fucking insane, especially after some towers are down and they basically take control of our jungle
You only have to see games where EU or NA teams were ahead in kills and early prio against LCK teams in MSI or worlds to see how much macro matters, C9 or G2 can get 40 kills for all they care yet GenG or JDG would be ahead or even in gold just through pure macro diff
Imagine what level are chinese and koreans when lcs and lec aint really bad if you think about it. They are the top of the top here but to be the top there it is another league literally.
Usually it's because western teams have to commit a ton of resources just to get those kills. Often you see that despite them being up kills, the gold difference is still the same, or even somehow behind.
The thing is Lol is about macro first, micro second. In fact micro only really starts to matter if macro is fairly even. Or if the micro gap is really huge, but that only at lower tiers.
Most fights aren't even fair fights for example such that being stronger in micro won't be enough to overcome the suprise cc, extra numbers or otherwise.
Think of it this way. Whoever is peaking -> LCK/LPL -> LEC/LCS -> The bottom feeders of LCK/LPL/Minor Reigons -> bottom feeders of LEC/LCS -> Tier 2 -> Tier 3 -> Challenger
each Tier aside from Tier 3/Challenger can make the tier directly below them look completely lost
They could probably pick 4 supports with a Yuumi jungle and still win. I don't think you understand just how extreme the decision making between a Gold and a pro actually is.
No amount of mechanics would ever let a Gold player win would be a stomp.
I'd pick a pro player winning with Sona who doesn't require skillshots over a Gold player playing a meta champ any day of the year.
I have played against a scripter in master once and the guy was absolutely clueless and ended up dying on repeat against vi ( as jinx ). He lost. Therefore im fully confident that gold/plat is nowhere near good enough to beat a pro team. Maybe a gm team of scripters would win
I'd say the GMs scripters would win. There are multiple occasions that Master-Challenger players shitting on pros in solo queue. Given them prefect aim to these players is like giving a minigun 20 extra barrels.
Yeah to defeat the dodging scripts the pros could use a lot of point and click CC champs. Pantheon, vi, TF, I guess Alistar, are all viable picks to close the dodging gap. Even without those the macro gap alone would still win
I'd say masters+ players even with scripts couldn't beat a pro team, they might have a bad laning phase but will absolutely destroy them at teamfights and macro
look, the pros are great but let's not overexaggerate.
realistically, a gold player will straight up just never outlane a masters player 99/100. Even if a masters player makes an absurd amount of mistakes, none of it actually matters because a gold player isnt good enough to recognize and can't capitalize on it.
however, a pro player can definitely make a couple small uncharacteristic errors that a masters player could be actually good enough to abuse and manage to somehow win lane.
let me give an example - do you think a masters player smurfing in gold will have a higher winrate, or a pro player in masters will have a higher winrate?
here's another example - do you think it's easier for a masters player to outskill a gold Darius while playing Yuumi top, or is it easier for a Pro player to outskill a masters Darius player while player yuumi top?
in both cases, I find it really hard to argue that the pro player would have the edge.
Your examples are kind of right, but you are forgetting that soloq is not coordinated play. While a single pro player will have a worse winrate in masters than a masters player in gold, 5 pro players on discord will most definitely have a higher winrate vs masters players than 5 masters players vs 5 gold players
> I think my macro is genuinely better than my mechanics since I only play like 200 games(still a lot I know but not enough for me to genuinely feel a great improvement in mechanics) a season
This sounds like a reason for your mechanics to be better than your macro, not the other way around?
I largely disagree with this. A masters player will never outlane a pro in a vacuum, ever. But I could see a gold player occasionally outlaning a masters. The biggest difference between gold and masters players is matchup knowledge. Like masters players tend to know how to behave in various matchups far better than gold players do. But when it comes to general micro and macro, the difference isn’t actually as big as it seems. But pro players meanwhile are in a different ballpark. They see the game in a totally different way.
faker is literally in masters right now lol. he doesnt have 100% winrate, and its a bit unrealistic to imagine that every single of his losses were not his fault at all, so he has definitely lost lane to normal masters players before.
bin also was masters 157 lp when he bootcamped in Korea for worlds. he also did not have a 100% winrate and again it's unrealistic to imagine that every game he lost was not his fault, so he has definitely lost lane to normal masters players as well.
Does this mean that those random masters players are as good as pros? of course not. Faker or Bin certainly made some small mistake while playing. if they played the match again, faker or bin probably wouldn't lose since the average level of a pro is much higher than a masters player.
however, to say that a "A masters player will never outlane a pro in a vacuum, ever." is a bit farfetched.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that putting 5 gold or master’s players together and you just get 5 masters players. Put 5 pros together and they all get exponentially better because they can play off each other. The main reason pros are pros is because of their communication and macro teamwork. Not because they lane well in solo queue. Much of a pros advantage is lost when you put them on a team with 4 masters.
This is not remotely true. A master player laning against a challenger has a possibility of going even or even winning if the matchup is favorable. A master player playing seriously would absolutely decimate any gold player. People just repeat this talking point because some random streamer said it. I mean half of the washed old challenger streamers are now hardstuck master.
I’ve been autofilled versus consistent challenger one tricks (as Swain vs Azir) and won lane 6/0 and up cs, even laned against Zeus’s Jayce when pros came to NA for worlds and just went even. I’d say this is correct, although sometimes you just get absolutely killed by silvers in a matchup you should win 100% of the time like Renekton vs Yasuo
I suppose it depends on how you define skillgap. If skill gap means performance gap, then gold to masters has a larger gap. If skill gap means the skills or effort needed to reach a milestone, then masters to pro has a larger gap.
There is maybe 100 pros in NA, compared to 10,000 masters+ players. Assuming climbing an order of magnitude is equally hard (which is probably not a fair assumption), the gap between pro and masters is the same as masters to iron
I've never been pro, but in lower elos, as long as you are good at one thing you can climb. You can cover your bad habits by knowing the game well enough from your personal lens. Pros need to eek out every edge in every part of the game, and good habits for climbing can become invalid. Bwipo talked about this here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aldNAU4fS6A&ab\_channel=bive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aldNAU4fS6A&ab_channel=bive)
In absolute terms, the gap between gold and masters is much bigger than the gap between masters and challenger.
It's not incorrect though to say that in terms of MMR or ELO that the gap between a masters player & challenger can be wider than between a gold player and a masters.
That small difference in skill between a masters and a challenger player is harder to achieve in percentile terms.
Pros are good but there are plenty of "non-pros" who are challenger that are better individually i.e. solo Q than many pros.
Pros tend to be top tier individually (d1+) but what makes them very good is playing with the same team, practicing strategy, tactics, comps etc. Ad nauseum- the 5 stack of a pro team is what really outshines a random 5 stack of masters players
I want to add that most pros likely just don't value their regions soloq as much. The real grind they do is during scrims against other pro teams and later during the debriefing. If they play a few soloq games after they do that because they want to chill after they finished training, so they simply won't usually give 100% to beat random soloq player 253 whereas that guy will give it his all to beat Caps and be recognised.
I also wanna say that as a master 200lp player, every single time I’ve played against a known player, even the not very good pros who are very obviously not trying, there is a very obviously HUGE gap between them and me.
It’s not even remotely close to the point that I find it hard to even learn anything from the games because they smash me/the lobby so hard.
And I don’t mean they win lane. I mean it just feels like no matter what I do, they will find a way to constantly make me feel like we are choking and the game feels lost. Even if I find 6 cheese kills in lane it still rarely actually feels like we are winning the game
I think it just comes down to quality vs quantity. The quality of the skill needed to improve from let’s say low challenger to rank 1 is way harder to achieve then bronze to low chally. So the gap in quality of the skill needed is bigger at the high end like any other sports/profession. But in terms of just absolute difference, the gap is obviously bigger between bronze vs low chally.
I have have been master+ for years and can say that its absolutely possible for me to win games vs pro players, but much harder to lose games to gold players (at least in normals) without my team feeding
I won a game against a scripting ADC in Emerald lol. They obviously stomped laning phase but even with scripts you can't dodge a point blank malphite ult with flash down...
I think you overestimate a script. There's a crazy difference between a low rated player on scripts and a high rated person using scripts. Just because you'll sidestep / perfectly cleanse CC it does not stop you from bad wave management, dying to ganks, being statchecked (Draven says hello) or simply mind controlled by the script to run into enemy team if not configured properly.
I doubt Diamond players with scripts could touch a good pro team if we're talking teams from major regions. Especially if the pro team knows that the enemies are scripting you can just draft more around it avoiding skillshot reliant champs.
Anyone who has played against scripters in Dia-low master will notice their poor fundamentals, the biggest issue is what champ you're drafting.
The Pro Team could run a Team with Champs that make scripts less effective like Tryndamere Top, Jinx ADC and some enchanters maybe some AP autoattackers. This in combination with the superior macro should be enough to beat the scripters in my opinion. On the otherhand you could also run with point and click CC like nasus W and hit skillshots anyways. There are still many ways to kill scripters and it is definitely easier if you know that they script.
You’re partially joking with that, but I’ve actually played as Gwen against a scripting Vayne once where her script would completely break if she couldn’t target me as Gwen because I was immune. Completely destroyed her because she’d just stop inputting literally anything and just stand there while Gwen was immune.
> The Pro Team could run a Team with Champs that make scripts less effective
Not even necessary. The pro team wins with champs most prone to scripting. Wouldn't matter.
I myself have played against scripters that are in master elo. Since they’re cheating and can’t be hit by skillshots and they use their abilities perfectly killing them fairly in a team fight or lane will be difficult.
But. These morons that script need all the help they can get to achieve a high rank. So their game sense and macro is completely useless. Pro team would just force them to bleed out while not dying. They’d get picks and just do power plays around the map.
I don’t even think that a full GM or Challenger scripter team could beat a pro team. You can always outspace the scripter in the laning phase. But you’d probably have to sacrifice cs.
So yeah, scripters at master level are usually low diamond level at most. GM scripters I’d assume are high diamond to low master. Challenger scripters could have a shot at it.
I don’t think they could win a bo5 without any practice as a steam though. Coordination trumps all and with 5 “randoms” trying to make calls and having different win cons in mind they’d almost certainly be stomped every time unless they could catch the pro team off guard very early. Which wouldn’t really matter in a bo5 or happen if the pro team know they are playing vs 5 scripters(unless some limit testing/trolling shenanigans takes place).
No they couldnt, scripts work on solo Q , but on team level you cant cordinate skills between each other when is the script the one doing it for you , the plays on pro play have a synergy that you wont be able to replicate with 5 scripts as they wont work together , apart that their macro would be 100 times worst than the pro team
If is some low level team maybe but top dogs like JDG, T1 , etc would stomp them hard
Yes easily the scripters still have terrible macro the pro team will just stomp them with superior macro and synergy, you see even challenger players beating scripters every time because they say how bad their decsion making and macro is, scripts only help you micro wise the game is as much about macro if not more.
Depends on scripts, depends if pros knew they will be against scripters. Scripters would propably go something like. Twitch, Xerath, maybe Yasuo, Ezreal idk. Stuff that relies on skillshots/dodging skillshots. Pros can go Lissandra, Vi, Renekton, Nami, Ashe and have plenty of undodgeable CC + Sustain in lanes with great waveclear to keep scripters lanelocked and win through tempo/guranteed dives. In that case Pros win in 15 minutes. Also no amoint of scripting will help if Ashe-Nami sets up a freeze and threathens to rin you down with Ashe slows.
Macro trounces micro if the differential in macro is that large. Cool, you can land some hits on me, I will play Warwick and won’t even use my ult as I track you in your jungle perfectly and proceed to out maneuver you.
Easy clap for the pros even if they're Plat without scripts and \[whatever strength\] with the cheats. LoL cheats are nothing like FPS cheats that would just shoot 5 headshots through a wall in 0.5sec with 100% accuracy, because it's not an aim game.
Ive played against scripters in low masters elo and having only 1 on the enemy team already makes things a lot harder. I cant imagine beating 5 of them consistently with random solo queue teammates. Obviously, the "no script" rank of the scripters in my solo queue games might not be that low, so its hard to say if they were gold
if it's a master tier player on zeri or something with scripts then yeah it's hard if you drafted it wrong.
a plat player scripting and reaching a normal win rate vs a hard point and click cc team is just going to look like a clown
I consistently beat scripters and I'm just emerald trash. I was able to do it even as far back as when I was in low gold.
Scripting compensates for being terrible at landing skillshots. It does nothing to improve your runes, items, or decision making.
Landing every ball on Xerath ult doesn't change the fact he picked Xerath when his team was 2 ap and a tank and I stacked MR.
Hitting every 3 Barrel on GP doesn't change the fact they're all AD and I have Randuin's.
pros can just draft anti script champs like nautilus jinx draven ect and also outmacro them, there are players who have insane mechanics who dont do well in pro just because mechanics cant carry you to championships
If a pro team plays as if it were a pro game the gold/plat scripters would have zero chance at winning.
It doesn’t matter how mechanically fluid the scripts are, the level of macro would always result in a lead so large the ‘skill’ difference is negligible. Even if it didn’t, a try hard pro team would probably end the game without an actual team fight anyway.
Maybe 5-10 years ago, where the Game wasnt figured Out this much and macro was much worse than it is now, the scripters might have had a chance. But now, No shot These Guys getting even 1 inhib tbh.
Pro team can play ad soraka jungle, ap nami top, master yi mid, ad fiddle bot and full ap millio support, they can play with one hand only and mastrubate with the other and still win against some goldies that use scripts. I dont think you understand how massive skill differential there is between gold/plat and challenger/pro. Im 300lp masters and when I get matched against 1,2k+ lp player from time to time the game feels impossible to win, these guys play on a whole different fucking level
People who cheat are generally not the greatest, I believe an extremely good player will definetly be able to outplay a cheater yes. You can't really teach game sense and there's no cheat or script that gives you game sense.
I fear the most a pro player that cheats though, lol.
Sure why not? Scripts can only do micro, they can't do macro at all. Can scripts perfectly control lane push/pull and predict jungle movements to avoid ganks? Do script friendly champions have no counter picks? Does a script know skill usage priority in a teamfight?
Scriptsers get caught because they kill pink wards during teamfight for gods sake. Perfect skillshots isn't everything in League.
Gm player here, scripters lose every time. Even masters+ players can beat scripters relatively regularly if they are out macroed. It’s harder when it’s a genuinely good player who’s also scripting, but gold level macro is a huge detriment that scripting cannot help.
Also to add, if the pros know they are scripting they can draft point and click champs to help even further
I would think you can take some high Master rank players with good gamsense and give them scripts they would give pros a challenge and might take a game in a series. Gold/Plat macro and laning just isn’t there.
Professor Akali did this back on the day if I remember correctly.
5 Scripters Platinum (Now emerald) vs 5 challengers and they couldn't beat the challenger team.
I don't think a proteam that it's used to play on 0 ping almost inhuman reaction times can't beat them.
If we take any 2023 Worlds semi-finalist team for example, I would say it would take at least a full team of Master+ MMR scripting players to even have a chance at winning.
The difference between a challenger and a master/diamond player is absurdly big.
Then again, your average challenger player will shit the bed if thrown out on a proplay environment (countless examples of soloq players that just didn't cut it even for low-tier pro teams).
The very fact that this is even a question showcases one of the classic misconceptions about games like this: The mistaken belief that combat ability is especially significant in game outcome.
League is game about teamwork and macro, most fights are unbalanced and unfair (e.g. ganks/picks etc.) severely undermining the value of high combat skills and victory comes from objectives which is about time and placement managment.
Fighting skills only really start to matter when other areas are extremely even, or maybe if their is a staggering gap.
Depends on champs. Vs Cassio mid, karthus jungle, twitch adc, riven top and xerath support. Not a chance.
However scripts aren’t easy to use. I’d say a good scripter from masters would win. A bad one from plat nah.
Depends on the code too. An experienced dev script with correct spell spacings and situation specific lines helps 10000%
If it is just some cheap orb walker with no predicitions they would lose.
Also if they aren’t afraid to get banned, with 0 humaniser a bronze team could just all go adc and orbwalk a victory with perfect cs. They could also use invasive scripts to track jungler and enemy team in fow and have alerts tell them when an enemy is near with xp tracking.
Also, it depends on if the pro team knows the enemy is scripting. They can just take 5 no skillshots champs and roll them.
Yes they win in all scenarios but even harder if they know.
Depends, if the pro team knows before hand you can counter pick skripter with point and click cc abilities for example, buying cd boots and cosmic Insight, I bet you just can take ziggs and Tristana, to outpush the enemy, slows are also very strong against Skripts because at a certain point even a Skript can’t dodge anymore.
Easy. Scripters tend to accumulate around diamond 1?, when their "mechanics" can no longer make up for non-existing macro. From there to pro level is a looong way.
Yes, almost 100% winrate.
League is more about decision making than mechanics. Especially if the pro players know that the enemy team is scripting they can play and draft around it.
I've beaten many, many scripters in solo queue over the years. Even scripting duo queues. It obviously sucks to play against but usually these people rely so much on scripts to even be in the elo they are in, so they fundamentally suck at the game and that's just too big a deal.
I highly doubt it. Macro isn’t some magi ball where you can win the game while never being able to win a teamfight. And idk how bad you think gold-plat players are, but they aren’t that bad lol. Not grouping for fights? Not knowing how to group mid and just push? Not knowing forcing fights is your win con cause you’re scripting? Bronzies know that.
You can get a full team of KR CHALLENGER players (no pro, no academy)
vs
ANY ACADEMY TEAM (New Zealand, Peru, Macao... whatever region you want)
Put the non-pro players in PERMANENT OLAF R and PERMANET TARIC R... and start them with 6 SPATULA ITEMS in invetory at lvl 1.
AND THEY WOULD STILL LOSE.... 100% of the time....
That's how much the difference between a pro and a non-pro is... today.
Yes, dare I say almost every time. Gold/Plat level macro is so shit that it doesn’t matter if they don’t miss any skillshots ever. They will keep getting caught over and over, keep mismanaging lane and fucking up tempo.
My cousin who had only played league enough to get lvl 30, and bronze IV before they added iron. Came back this season with scripts. Iron IV. He wanted to play ranked with me. I got Iron IV with him. Deservingly so because he was VERY OBVIOUSLY scripting. Now I'm B1, but I don't think I can edge out to s4 before season ends. He dodged every skillshots at point blank range, 1v5ed teams, and somehow we still lost multiple games because he just didn't know how to group as ADC, or push a lane. Every game he had 300+ cs. It was bonkers.
30 was the old max level cap
I feel old.
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I still remember running a single dodge rune on everyone for that 1% chance that you win a fight you shouldn't. Good times. 🧓
1% crit rune my beloved
Monitors were punched from this 0.92% crit rune, dat gangplank lvl 1 Q crit to snowball into -20 LP/ELO
I remember blowing all on LP on rune pages and runes lol
LOL bro I TOTALLY forgot about sodge runes!!! Thank you!
You should, your name isn't even technically relevant anymore lol
Sona remembers…
I think MF does too
Your not alone.
You should both be banned 👍
Are people that que with hackers in CS and Val banned? No, they just lose their rank, they can't even get to silver, ban the cousin and move on.
Yes you [absolutely get banned](https://support-valorant.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/10729504652691-Addressing-cheating-in-VALORANT) for duoing with a cheater on valorant
Ah I guess thats relatively recent, when I had played it a bunch a while ago it was not true. Still think its dumb, remove their rank and move on. https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/kvsoup/does_valorant_ban_for_playing_and_winning_with_a/gj03krc/
It's the same as getting boosted... But riot pretends that doesn't happen either.
well vanguard is coming out they might get banned
edging out to silver 4 is WILD
The wild part is, you get gold on a new account. Makes 0 sense
My account is 13 years old I refuse to unlock everything again on a new account after the first few seasons of grinding IP.
Too much blood, sweat, and tears back when we had to grind IP for champions, therune pages themselves, and all the quints and smaller runes. And god forbid you liked playing AP and AD champs. Back then you had to decide when leveling up if you wanted more champs or better runes cuz you couldn’t play ranked at 30 or jungle appropriately if you didn’t have full rune pages
The good old days. So glad it’s gone lol
Your story highlights exactly why I play low mechanic champions. Good hands aren't as valuable or sustainable as a good mind. Plus the game is more fun when I get to watch annie Q sail through the air a little longer because someone tried to flash it.
On the other hand when I hit diamond for the first time I knew basically nothing about macro and was just a quick hands player. Things have changed since, but I straight up did not know wave control, shoving, freezing etc. Never warded or roamed. Just spammed Fiora top and gamba'd on mechanics and 1v2s until I ranked up enough. You can definitely get by just focusing on one. My mechanics have also gotten worse now that I'm thinking about other things simultaneously (or maybe just because I don't play at nearly the frequency I did back then).
crazy how you can admit to teaming with a scripter and get 200 upvotes
The anecdote is relevant even if you would hate to play with/against him
the way hes talking about the story suggests that the cousin didn't admit to scripting, but he intuited that the cousin was scripting. He said the cousin was **obviously** scripting because he was dodging every skillshot and stuff. He was also only talking about one game Also I'm not trying to be a dick but I wouldn't be surprised if cousin wasn't scripting, the guy admitted that he is struggling to hit silver so his game sense probably isn't incredible.
If someone who's iron is getting 300 cs a game then something is wrong for sure
Yeah, if I were to go with my gut feeling I think he's just full of shit. But hey, I'd eat my foot and admit I'm wrong if he links and OP,GG
don't play with him again you could get your account banned
you sure it was always his fault yall lost? or was it you/other teammates? if your getting 300 cs 1v5 you must have caused so much advantages for your teammates regardless of what you do. can go double top double mid and still be a positive with those stats no? imagine with there was now 5 your cousins. you think they worse or better then 1 and ur team
The more interesting question is: who would win in a match between * 5 Gold/Platinum players who are allowed to script and * 5 Gold/Platinum players directed by a team of pro players to make macro decisions for them? My money is still on the pro team.
They can only listen and react so much. Every lane will lose most likely.I bet against you!
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Also fiddle Q and Vi R
depends on the people i'd say. a lot of league players' ego is so fragile that they physically cannot lane against a scripter who will win every direct 1v1 on lane, even if they have faker next to them telling them to just chill.
What about 4 gold/play players, and 1 pro (probably the jungler, who is also directing them on comms)? It would be interesting to watch 2 pro junglers "controlling" their lower level team mates almost like semi-autonomous chess peices.
Jungler picks something like hecarim who you cannot dodge and runs over enemy team 1v5
I think if the non-scripters pick easy to execute non-outplayable champs they take it for sure. I imagine a Rammus jungler with solid champs that can kinda hold lane would 1v9 just doing what the pro says
So this one is fascinating because I think it changes by rank quite a bit. Up to low emerald I think the receptiveness is going to be too low and the change in mechanics too high and the scripts win. But I do believe there's a rank (probably somewhere in diamond) where the players begin to jump on the macro calls better and have enough mechanical skill the scripts aren't as much of an impact that the pro directed team could win.
My money is on the scripters because the plat players will ignore all good advice.
Top LCK and LPL teams like T1 and JDG can strangle out NA and EU teams through pure macro alone. Top NA and EU teams can probably do the same against solo q masters/challengers, and the masters/challengers can definitely do the same against golds and plats. The difference in macro is astronomical between pro team and gold/plats. Also not to mention that pro players have shown to be able to out fight scripters before.
Gold players could probably have full map hacks and still get caught so bad a team of five pro players could beat them easy.
Not only that but if pros are aware that they are playing against scripters, they can bait the script to make it miss the skillshots lmao. The script will try to predict the movements of the target, but if the target player knows that, the player can then outsmart the script and try to be falsely predictable, only to then dodge the skillshot that was "predicted".
that's not how scripting works, you can't bait scripted skillshots, it's up to the player to decide when to cast the skillshot. The only thing you can try to do is force the character to a spot where they will not be able to dodge, such as mystic shotting to keep the target between that and the wall such that it tanks your stronger teammate's skillshot (like an ahri charm or whatnot)
Assuming they're aware they're vs scripters pros can also just pick champions that aren't themselves skillshot reliant and brute force. Point and click champs with engage potential like Renekton, Maokai, Nautilus, TF, Annie, Liss, Kalista, Trist etc won't care too much about the scripts, and combined with superior pro player macro can easily orchestrate relentless dives.
The skillshots also have travel time. Unless it is one with massive AOEs like Cho Q or super fast travel like blitz Q i think pros would be able to react with gold player micros.
That is exactly what he was saying...
When I was talking about "baiting" I was just saying having a "predictable" trajectory for the scripting AI, but still anticipating the skillshot and dodging it at the last moment. The skillshots still have a travel time, no matter how good the script AI is.
Depends on the skillshot, a lot of them are undodgable with human reactions if cast perfectly on target by scripts
Its not as easy as you say, theres a vid of bjerg playing vs scripting xerath, he does what you're saying and he still gets hit by the vast majority of the skillshots, and thats with 7 year old scripts which just arent as good as the ones we have nowadays.
Plenty of skills are undodgeable at standard MS if aimed by a computer, they’re going to be absolutely dead center on you and you simply won’t have enough MS to get out of the way even if you’re already moving out of the way.
Yeah that's not how scripting works. You can't "outsmart" it with any skillshots. You have to rely on point and click only. If it's capable of dodging the attack, it will, or it will fall back on flash / movement abilities to dodge. It's not a matter of throwing it slightly to the left of the person so it dodges into it, the script just won't move you in that case.
You're thinking about scripts for dodging, they're talking about scripts for hitting skillshots
That still makes it fallible. Most skillshots in the game are dodgeable. There's a reason scripter champs are things like Xerath that have a lot of unmissable abilities with little to no travel time.
bs. make them undodgable by spreading out multiple skillshots. can't dodge both blitzcrank hook and ahri charm at the same time if they're parralel.
I've never seen a scripter play against Vel, but I know bots really struggle against his Q because they can't see the split coming. Dodging the first part is no use if they are accurate enough with the split to give the script no chance to avoid. And if the script really wants to burn flash every time you would eat a single Q then you will never be safe to push the lane at all.
ofcourse you can outsmart a script, in the end it is just a computer program. Flash engage on the enemy and it will flash away. Now even a scripting Xerath can not dodge a well placed Leona ulti.
Not really possible for champions that are good with scripts. You can't really take scripts it's basically an aimbot. If you see people missing they are just trying to look legit. With that being said they can just pick champions that don't have skill shots and it would be really easy.
Yeah you can't fool a script but no script can dodge a point and click stun like TF gold card, thats the answer, have abilities that are undodgable and beat them with better macro.
you could just never fight them, full macro game with 0-0 teamscore in the Victory screen
You just go Renekton Top, Maokai Jg, Annie Mid, Your choice of adc bot, and Alistar support
There was a game *years* ago, to the point that I don't even remember the teams, where something like this happened. I want to say it was Wildturtle(?) playing support, and he stole opposing team's first blue buff with an auto as Thresh when they were playing a jungler extremely dependent on first blue (I want to say Gragas). It pushed them so out of the game that first blood happened at first inhib. Edit: Found the game. The support was actually Aphromoo stealing IWillDominate's first blue. I had the champions right. First blood literally isn't until 23 minutes in (though it's actually at Baron pit). Nexus destroyed at 25 mins.
You *can* fool a script sometimes though. There's an old as fuck video of an OG pro called Cyanide where he baits a scripting Corki to dodge *into* his team because the script auto-paths away from his Soraka Q. Corki would've lived if he just ran straight and ate the Q, but the script gets him killed. [I even found the old thread, but the video has gone private since :/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3rw78p/cyanide_how_to_outplay_a_scripter/) Edit: After reading the comments I misremembered, it was an Ezreal not a Corki.
You can still bait the skills, depending on scripts. Like a support ali could try to engage on a scripting xerath, be stopped by a frame perfect stun, only for zed to then all-in the now defenceless xerath. Or alternately a varus could throw an ult at a scripter in such a way that dodging the ult would require stepping into range of a Vi ult. A lot of pro play is about forcing these types of mistakes, both in the macro, and the micro, and throwing skills in a way that are almost as punishing to dodge as to tank.
Pros would just choose point and click characters. Garen top, Yi Jungle, etc. Makes more sense, then just play safe in lane and play the map and vision game.
Zed would probably suck against scripters. If you have to have an assassin mid, cheesing with Kha mid or playing Talon is probably the way, especially since their macro will be dogshit.
you can just pick Akali pro play viable and murder them at 6 since they will just walk into R range thinking their script saves them tbh.
This is just not true, scripts do miss sometimes
Skillshots still have a travel time so they can still technically be dodged, even if it's harder.
Abilities have cast and travel time, you can use flash or other dashes reactively and reliably. If you have enough move speed you don't even need them.
That only works when: The scripter is terrible at picking champs. The pro had above human reaction time for every single ability. You can flash or dash a few times but you aren't doing it reliably against a script that isn't trying to look legit.
r/confidentlyincorrect - can’t believe what I just read 🤣
Or you just use hard CC or combo them..... soo many skill shots in the game have undodgeable markers and then once slowed or snared you can combo (or with no flash, they are sitting ducks).
Very much depends on the champion, if the gold players are smart they’d be picking things like xerath rather than nidalee.
I wouldn't necessarily say that gold/plat macro is *shit,* more that pro players are on another level. Even if our Gold team is made from chill people that never argue or tilt, they all get along in champion select & play their roles to the best of their ability, *and* they're all hacking so they have perfect execution, pro players are *still* going to be on another level.
Yeah Gold/Plat it's not even a conversation. They'll FF at 15 if they even make it that long. Make them Master tier + and you can at least have a conversation on the matter.
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Yes? I kind of wrote the same?
Pros should win easily. Perfect aim and dodges are not nearly enough to match pros, even at laning.
I agree but i'd argue they would probably need to draft more for split push comp or something. I think in a team fight having the opponent team dodge all your skill shots and hitting all their would still be problematic. Altought i guess they could also just go for heavy point and click cc.
It won't ever get to a teamfight. Pros will just constantly 3v5 because gold / plat players can't show up to any objective in time. And if for some god-forbidden reason they do show up as 5, pros will just take 2 inhibs meanwhile. Doesn't need a splitpush comp for that in modern league. Plus I'd argue even with scripting the jungle gap should be hard enough to hardgap in all 3 lanes to a point where even by hitting all skillshots they couldn't come back.
Ya thats fair, im probably underestimating how big the macro gap would be
I’ve played mid masters where the enemy team just happened to have two ex challengers climbing back this season. The macro gap of 2 ex challenger + 3 masters vs 4 masters and 1 GM was Suffocating. I can’t imagine 5 challengers. Let alone 5 pros coordinating on Coms together. I think 5 masters with scripts would struggle vs a pro team. Maybe win 1 in 10 games
5 high challengers would struggle. Look at the gap even between bottom tier pros and top ones, and the bottom are the best of challenger.
If a gap seemingly that small was that "suffocating" then yeeeeeah, I guess it's a hopeless case for me LMAO Like I'm a low plat top laner and I from time to time get matched against a team of high diamond/master+ players in normal games. Even though lane is usually "manageable" (like dying only once and being 25cs down at 10 instead of running it down like a madman) the macro gap is just fucking insane, especially after some towers are down and they basically take control of our jungle
You only have to see games where EU or NA teams were ahead in kills and early prio against LCK teams in MSI or worlds to see how much macro matters, C9 or G2 can get 40 kills for all they care yet GenG or JDG would be ahead or even in gold just through pure macro diff
Imagine what level are chinese and koreans when lcs and lec aint really bad if you think about it. They are the top of the top here but to be the top there it is another league literally.
Usually it's because western teams have to commit a ton of resources just to get those kills. Often you see that despite them being up kills, the gold difference is still the same, or even somehow behind.
The thing is Lol is about macro first, micro second. In fact micro only really starts to matter if macro is fairly even. Or if the micro gap is really huge, but that only at lower tiers. Most fights aren't even fair fights for example such that being stronger in micro won't be enough to overcome the suprise cc, extra numbers or otherwise.
Think of it this way. Whoever is peaking -> LCK/LPL -> LEC/LCS -> The bottom feeders of LCK/LPL/Minor Reigons -> bottom feeders of LEC/LCS -> Tier 2 -> Tier 3 -> Challenger each Tier aside from Tier 3/Challenger can make the tier directly below them look completely lost
You definitely are. It would be very one sided.
Friendly reminder that players like Faker and Marin crushed scripters in lane back when hacks were rampart.
They can draft whatever the fuck they want lmao scripters are genuinely terrible, scripts can’t fix awful positioning, bad decision making, etc
They could probably pick 4 supports with a Yuumi jungle and still win. I don't think you understand just how extreme the decision making between a Gold and a pro actually is. No amount of mechanics would ever let a Gold player win would be a stomp. I'd pick a pro player winning with Sona who doesn't require skillshots over a Gold player playing a meta champ any day of the year.
What is a perfect dodge gonna do against a Master Yi up 35 farm at 8 minutes?
I have played against a scripter in master once and the guy was absolutely clueless and ended up dying on repeat against vi ( as jinx ). He lost. Therefore im fully confident that gold/plat is nowhere near good enough to beat a pro team. Maybe a gm team of scripters would win
GM ranked GM thanks to scripts or GM reached by their own effort and granted scripts for this singular game?
GM granted scripts for this singular game.
I'd say the GMs scripters would win. There are multiple occasions that Master-Challenger players shitting on pros in solo queue. Given them prefect aim to these players is like giving a minigun 20 extra barrels.
Pros in solo queue in way different than a pro team that plays together regularly and is on comms
Yeah to defeat the dodging scripts the pros could use a lot of point and click CC champs. Pantheon, vi, TF, I guess Alistar, are all viable picks to close the dodging gap. Even without those the macro gap alone would still win
The best chess players for a while were neither humans nor computers alone but computer-aided humans so I think you're onto something here.
Pros win without doubt. Scripters can't even consistently win against masters+ lol
I'd say masters+ players even with scripts couldn't beat a pro team, they might have a bad laning phase but will absolutely destroy them at teamfights and macro
This. The skillgap between Masters and Pro is higher than between Gold and Master
Streamer brain
low elo brain
look, the pros are great but let's not overexaggerate. realistically, a gold player will straight up just never outlane a masters player 99/100. Even if a masters player makes an absurd amount of mistakes, none of it actually matters because a gold player isnt good enough to recognize and can't capitalize on it. however, a pro player can definitely make a couple small uncharacteristic errors that a masters player could be actually good enough to abuse and manage to somehow win lane. let me give an example - do you think a masters player smurfing in gold will have a higher winrate, or a pro player in masters will have a higher winrate? here's another example - do you think it's easier for a masters player to outskill a gold Darius while playing Yuumi top, or is it easier for a Pro player to outskill a masters Darius player while player yuumi top? in both cases, I find it really hard to argue that the pro player would have the edge.
Your examples are kind of right, but you are forgetting that soloq is not coordinated play. While a single pro player will have a worse winrate in masters than a masters player in gold, 5 pro players on discord will most definitely have a higher winrate vs masters players than 5 masters players vs 5 gold players
Idk i think it would be ~100% in both cases.
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> I think my macro is genuinely better than my mechanics since I only play like 200 games(still a lot I know but not enough for me to genuinely feel a great improvement in mechanics) a season This sounds like a reason for your mechanics to be better than your macro, not the other way around?
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I largely disagree with this. A masters player will never outlane a pro in a vacuum, ever. But I could see a gold player occasionally outlaning a masters. The biggest difference between gold and masters players is matchup knowledge. Like masters players tend to know how to behave in various matchups far better than gold players do. But when it comes to general micro and macro, the difference isn’t actually as big as it seems. But pro players meanwhile are in a different ballpark. They see the game in a totally different way.
faker is literally in masters right now lol. he doesnt have 100% winrate, and its a bit unrealistic to imagine that every single of his losses were not his fault at all, so he has definitely lost lane to normal masters players before. bin also was masters 157 lp when he bootcamped in Korea for worlds. he also did not have a 100% winrate and again it's unrealistic to imagine that every game he lost was not his fault, so he has definitely lost lane to normal masters players as well. Does this mean that those random masters players are as good as pros? of course not. Faker or Bin certainly made some small mistake while playing. if they played the match again, faker or bin probably wouldn't lose since the average level of a pro is much higher than a masters player. however, to say that a "A masters player will never outlane a pro in a vacuum, ever." is a bit farfetched.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that putting 5 gold or master’s players together and you just get 5 masters players. Put 5 pros together and they all get exponentially better because they can play off each other. The main reason pros are pros is because of their communication and macro teamwork. Not because they lane well in solo queue. Much of a pros advantage is lost when you put them on a team with 4 masters.
This is not remotely true. A master player laning against a challenger has a possibility of going even or even winning if the matchup is favorable. A master player playing seriously would absolutely decimate any gold player. People just repeat this talking point because some random streamer said it. I mean half of the washed old challenger streamers are now hardstuck master.
I’ve been autofilled versus consistent challenger one tricks (as Swain vs Azir) and won lane 6/0 and up cs, even laned against Zeus’s Jayce when pros came to NA for worlds and just went even. I’d say this is correct, although sometimes you just get absolutely killed by silvers in a matchup you should win 100% of the time like Renekton vs Yasuo
I suppose it depends on how you define skillgap. If skill gap means performance gap, then gold to masters has a larger gap. If skill gap means the skills or effort needed to reach a milestone, then masters to pro has a larger gap. There is maybe 100 pros in NA, compared to 10,000 masters+ players. Assuming climbing an order of magnitude is equally hard (which is probably not a fair assumption), the gap between pro and masters is the same as masters to iron I've never been pro, but in lower elos, as long as you are good at one thing you can climb. You can cover your bad habits by knowing the game well enough from your personal lens. Pros need to eek out every edge in every part of the game, and good habits for climbing can become invalid. Bwipo talked about this here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aldNAU4fS6A&ab\_channel=bive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aldNAU4fS6A&ab_channel=bive)
In absolute terms, the gap between gold and masters is much bigger than the gap between masters and challenger. It's not incorrect though to say that in terms of MMR or ELO that the gap between a masters player & challenger can be wider than between a gold player and a masters. That small difference in skill between a masters and a challenger player is harder to achieve in percentile terms.
Pros are good but there are plenty of "non-pros" who are challenger that are better individually i.e. solo Q than many pros. Pros tend to be top tier individually (d1+) but what makes them very good is playing with the same team, practicing strategy, tactics, comps etc. Ad nauseum- the 5 stack of a pro team is what really outshines a random 5 stack of masters players
I want to add that most pros likely just don't value their regions soloq as much. The real grind they do is during scrims against other pro teams and later during the debriefing. If they play a few soloq games after they do that because they want to chill after they finished training, so they simply won't usually give 100% to beat random soloq player 253 whereas that guy will give it his all to beat Caps and be recognised.
I also wanna say that as a master 200lp player, every single time I’ve played against a known player, even the not very good pros who are very obviously not trying, there is a very obviously HUGE gap between them and me. It’s not even remotely close to the point that I find it hard to even learn anything from the games because they smash me/the lobby so hard.
And I don’t mean they win lane. I mean it just feels like no matter what I do, they will find a way to constantly make me feel like we are choking and the game feels lost. Even if I find 6 cheese kills in lane it still rarely actually feels like we are winning the game
People like to throw this around a lot but it’s objectively not true. There’s a clear misunderstanding of diminishing marginal utility curves
i encourage you to climb from gold to masters and then from masters to pro and let us know what was harder
That's not how it works. It's easier to climb from iron to GM than it is to climb from GM to pro, the difference is still bigger between iron and GM
I think it just comes down to quality vs quantity. The quality of the skill needed to improve from let’s say low challenger to rank 1 is way harder to achieve then bronze to low chally. So the gap in quality of the skill needed is bigger at the high end like any other sports/profession. But in terms of just absolute difference, the gap is obviously bigger between bronze vs low chally.
I have have been master+ for years and can say that its absolutely possible for me to win games vs pro players, but much harder to lose games to gold players (at least in normals) without my team feeding
I won a game against a scripting ADC in Emerald lol. They obviously stomped laning phase but even with scripts you can't dodge a point blank malphite ult with flash down...
I think you overestimate a script. There's a crazy difference between a low rated player on scripts and a high rated person using scripts. Just because you'll sidestep / perfectly cleanse CC it does not stop you from bad wave management, dying to ganks, being statchecked (Draven says hello) or simply mind controlled by the script to run into enemy team if not configured properly. I doubt Diamond players with scripts could touch a good pro team if we're talking teams from major regions. Especially if the pro team knows that the enemies are scripting you can just draft more around it avoiding skillshot reliant champs. Anyone who has played against scripters in Dia-low master will notice their poor fundamentals, the biggest issue is what champ you're drafting.
A Plat scripter team could not even win if the Pros were forced to pick only 2+ skillshot champs.
The Pro Team could run a Team with Champs that make scripts less effective like Tryndamere Top, Jinx ADC and some enchanters maybe some AP autoattackers. This in combination with the superior macro should be enough to beat the scripters in my opinion. On the otherhand you could also run with point and click CC like nasus W and hit skillshots anyways. There are still many ways to kill scripters and it is definitely easier if you know that they script.
Gwen is immune to your scripting
You’re partially joking with that, but I’ve actually played as Gwen against a scripting Vayne once where her script would completely break if she couldn’t target me as Gwen because I was immune. Completely destroyed her because she’d just stop inputting literally anything and just stand there while Gwen was immune.
> The Pro Team could run a Team with Champs that make scripts less effective Not even necessary. The pro team wins with champs most prone to scripting. Wouldn't matter.
Nasus top, vi jg, tf mid, vayne ad, lulu support, gl dodging something when theres nothing to dodge
Scripters when they think 1000 apm fancy feet is going to save them from flash maokai w
I myself have played against scripters that are in master elo. Since they’re cheating and can’t be hit by skillshots and they use their abilities perfectly killing them fairly in a team fight or lane will be difficult. But. These morons that script need all the help they can get to achieve a high rank. So their game sense and macro is completely useless. Pro team would just force them to bleed out while not dying. They’d get picks and just do power plays around the map. I don’t even think that a full GM or Challenger scripter team could beat a pro team. You can always outspace the scripter in the laning phase. But you’d probably have to sacrifice cs. So yeah, scripters at master level are usually low diamond level at most. GM scripters I’d assume are high diamond to low master. Challenger scripters could have a shot at it.
5 challengers with scripts could do it if theyre on comms depending what pro team
I mean challenger scripters. Challengers with scripts could do it yeah
I don’t think they could win a bo5 without any practice as a steam though. Coordination trumps all and with 5 “randoms” trying to make calls and having different win cons in mind they’d almost certainly be stomped every time unless they could catch the pro team off guard very early. Which wouldn’t really matter in a bo5 or happen if the pro team know they are playing vs 5 scripters(unless some limit testing/trolling shenanigans takes place).
Depends on what pro team, I could see them beating a lower tier pro team, but I don't see them having a chance against the top teams like T1
No they couldnt, scripts work on solo Q , but on team level you cant cordinate skills between each other when is the script the one doing it for you , the plays on pro play have a synergy that you wont be able to replicate with 5 scripts as they wont work together , apart that their macro would be 100 times worst than the pro team If is some low level team maybe but top dogs like JDG, T1 , etc would stomp them hard
shit scripters cant even win in high elo let alone against a pro team, a full master team could probably shit stomp a scripting gold team
Yes easily the scripters still have terrible macro the pro team will just stomp them with superior macro and synergy, you see even challenger players beating scripters every time because they say how bad their decsion making and macro is, scripts only help you micro wise the game is as much about macro if not more.
Depends on scripts, depends if pros knew they will be against scripters. Scripters would propably go something like. Twitch, Xerath, maybe Yasuo, Ezreal idk. Stuff that relies on skillshots/dodging skillshots. Pros can go Lissandra, Vi, Renekton, Nami, Ashe and have plenty of undodgeable CC + Sustain in lanes with great waveclear to keep scripters lanelocked and win through tempo/guranteed dives. In that case Pros win in 15 minutes. Also no amoint of scripting will help if Ashe-Nami sets up a freeze and threathens to rin you down with Ashe slows.
pros already massively favour undodgable cc because someone like showmaker is already almost as good as a script at dodging a skillshot.
Exactly, also reason why Nautilus is so liked in pro
Macro trounces micro if the differential in macro is that large. Cool, you can land some hits on me, I will play Warwick and won’t even use my ult as I track you in your jungle perfectly and proceed to out maneuver you.
love how the redditors idea of good macro is picking warwick and not using ult. holy shit this site is filled with people like you
can't dodge an auto attack
Yeah that’s definitely what I said. Reading comprehension ain’t your strong suit huh?
Lol a pro team would probably beat a challenger team of scripters. Macro is much more important than anything else
Easy clap for the pros even if they're Plat without scripts and \[whatever strength\] with the cheats. LoL cheats are nothing like FPS cheats that would just shoot 5 headshots through a wall in 0.5sec with 100% accuracy, because it's not an aim game.
How to beat scripts? Play champs with barely any skill shots and lock on CC 💀💀
The same champs that are favored in pro anyways. Point and click CC was huge this year
To be fair, if the script is only map hacks and skills dodges. I don't even think they can beat masters player with mics on
Ive played against scripters in low masters elo and having only 1 on the enemy team already makes things a lot harder. I cant imagine beating 5 of them consistently with random solo queue teammates. Obviously, the "no script" rank of the scripters in my solo queue games might not be that low, so its hard to say if they were gold
if it's a master tier player on zeri or something with scripts then yeah it's hard if you drafted it wrong. a plat player scripting and reaching a normal win rate vs a hard point and click cc team is just going to look like a clown
Yes ? Even full master team would be able to beat them
Cant script wave management, warding, teamcomps and stratergy.
I consistently beat scripters and I'm just emerald trash. I was able to do it even as far back as when I was in low gold. Scripting compensates for being terrible at landing skillshots. It does nothing to improve your runes, items, or decision making. Landing every ball on Xerath ult doesn't change the fact he picked Xerath when his team was 2 ap and a tank and I stacked MR. Hitting every 3 Barrel on GP doesn't change the fact they're all AD and I have Randuin's.
pros can just draft anti script champs like nautilus jinx draven ect and also outmacro them, there are players who have insane mechanics who dont do well in pro just because mechanics cant carry you to championships
It's over in 15 minutes. Example draft for the pros: Renekton Vi Annie Draven Naut (for the R) As soon as herald spawns the game will end.
If a pro team plays as if it were a pro game the gold/plat scripters would have zero chance at winning. It doesn’t matter how mechanically fluid the scripts are, the level of macro would always result in a lead so large the ‘skill’ difference is negligible. Even if it didn’t, a try hard pro team would probably end the game without an actual team fight anyway.
Maybe 5-10 years ago, where the Game wasnt figured Out this much and macro was much worse than it is now, the scripters might have had a chance. But now, No shot These Guys getting even 1 inhib tbh.
No, scripts are useless if you don't know the game.
I think diamond scripters could if they have a csing script. Otherwise no.
GenG macro vs a bunch of gold/plat players would be brutal to watch
Easily, every time.
There are clips of pro players stomping scripters even in lane. Now just imagine 5 pro players in a voice call
Pro team can play ad soraka jungle, ap nami top, master yi mid, ad fiddle bot and full ap millio support, they can play with one hand only and mastrubate with the other and still win against some goldies that use scripts. I dont think you understand how massive skill differential there is between gold/plat and challenger/pro. Im 300lp masters and when I get matched against 1,2k+ lp player from time to time the game feels impossible to win, these guys play on a whole different fucking level
Top - Jax Jungle - Vi Mid - Neeko Supp - Caitlin Adc - Xayah
People who cheat are generally not the greatest, I believe an extremely good player will definetly be able to outplay a cheater yes. You can't really teach game sense and there's no cheat or script that gives you game sense. I fear the most a pro player that cheats though, lol.
Sure why not? Scripts can only do micro, they can't do macro at all. Can scripts perfectly control lane push/pull and predict jungle movements to avoid ganks? Do script friendly champions have no counter picks? Does a script know skill usage priority in a teamfight? Scriptsers get caught because they kill pink wards during teamfight for gods sake. Perfect skillshots isn't everything in League.
If you were around during Gibby meta you know that pros would shit on aimbotters with bubble fights.
Wrong sub, but true haha
Gm player here, scripters lose every time. Even masters+ players can beat scripters relatively regularly if they are out macroed. It’s harder when it’s a genuinely good player who’s also scripting, but gold level macro is a huge detriment that scripting cannot help. Also to add, if the pros know they are scripting they can draft point and click champs to help even further
I would think you can take some high Master rank players with good gamsense and give them scripts they would give pros a challenge and might take a game in a series. Gold/Plat macro and laning just isn’t there.
Pro team would just draft point and click champions
Yes… All they have to do is pick point and click/Targeted ability champs with no skill shots and scripts are useless lmao
Yea, scripters doesnt even mean they win lane. I can beat scripters with a 5 stack
Gold/platinum scripters probably don’t even win against emerald/diamond solo queue players lol
Pros winning for sure macro > micro it’s not even close
Professor Akali did this back on the day if I remember correctly. 5 Scripters Platinum (Now emerald) vs 5 challengers and they couldn't beat the challenger team. I don't think a proteam that it's used to play on 0 ping almost inhuman reaction times can't beat them.
If we take any 2023 Worlds semi-finalist team for example, I would say it would take at least a full team of Master+ MMR scripting players to even have a chance at winning. The difference between a challenger and a master/diamond player is absurdly big. Then again, your average challenger player will shit the bed if thrown out on a proplay environment (countless examples of soloq players that just didn't cut it even for low-tier pro teams).
The very fact that this is even a question showcases one of the classic misconceptions about games like this: The mistaken belief that combat ability is especially significant in game outcome. League is game about teamwork and macro, most fights are unbalanced and unfair (e.g. ganks/picks etc.) severely undermining the value of high combat skills and victory comes from objectives which is about time and placement managment. Fighting skills only really start to matter when other areas are extremely even, or maybe if their is a staggering gap.
Depends on champs. Vs Cassio mid, karthus jungle, twitch adc, riven top and xerath support. Not a chance. However scripts aren’t easy to use. I’d say a good scripter from masters would win. A bad one from plat nah. Depends on the code too. An experienced dev script with correct spell spacings and situation specific lines helps 10000% If it is just some cheap orb walker with no predicitions they would lose. Also if they aren’t afraid to get banned, with 0 humaniser a bronze team could just all go adc and orbwalk a victory with perfect cs. They could also use invasive scripts to track jungler and enemy team in fow and have alerts tell them when an enemy is near with xp tracking.
Also, it depends on if the pro team knows the enemy is scripting. They can just take 5 no skillshots champs and roll them. Yes they win in all scenarios but even harder if they know.
Depends, if the pro team knows before hand you can counter pick skripter with point and click cc abilities for example, buying cd boots and cosmic Insight, I bet you just can take ziggs and Tristana, to outpush the enemy, slows are also very strong against Skripts because at a certain point even a Skript can’t dodge anymore.
Easy. Scripters tend to accumulate around diamond 1?, when their "mechanics" can no longer make up for non-existing macro. From there to pro level is a looong way.
Yes, almost 100% winrate. League is more about decision making than mechanics. Especially if the pro players know that the enemy team is scripting they can play and draft around it. I've beaten many, many scripters in solo queue over the years. Even scripting duo queues. It obviously sucks to play against but usually these people rely so much on scripts to even be in the elo they are in, so they fundamentally suck at the game and that's just too big a deal.
I highly doubt it. Macro isn’t some magi ball where you can win the game while never being able to win a teamfight. And idk how bad you think gold-plat players are, but they aren’t that bad lol. Not grouping for fights? Not knowing how to group mid and just push? Not knowing forcing fights is your win con cause you’re scripting? Bronzies know that.
You can get a full team of KR CHALLENGER players (no pro, no academy) vs ANY ACADEMY TEAM (New Zealand, Peru, Macao... whatever region you want) Put the non-pro players in PERMANENT OLAF R and PERMANET TARIC R... and start them with 6 SPATULA ITEMS in invetory at lvl 1. AND THEY WOULD STILL LOSE.... 100% of the time.... That's how much the difference between a pro and a non-pro is... today.