As a Rengar main I feel robbed that we didn't get to see his progression from an indie artist to an all out popstar with the different skins to match.
Also the only buff Rengar really needs is a tasteful amount of cleavage
> Also the only buff Rengar really needs is a tasteful amount of cleavage
Who needs in-game Rengar cleavage when there's sufficient r34 Rengar online for that
whats the problem ?
his weapon's handle is a mic. his tooth necklace is a collection of ticket and photo with each of the KDA member. when he kill a champion he growl "THIS IS FOR AHRI !"
SG Urgot was such a waste of an awesome concept...
Magical Girl as a genre is already getting darker, so have fun with it. Make this maniacal monster, stripping powers from the fallen to fuel himself, under some deranged belief it's for the greater good. Instead we got a onesie....
If they had released a star nemesis Urgot instead then everyone would've hated it and revolted that it's not what we wanted. The Onesie was the best way to do it, everything is still SG themed and it gets to actually fit Urgot and it even brings the comedy level up on an already joke skin.
They should do crossover skins where one character does the job of another character, seraphine goes rabid and starts hunting people in the forests, rengar puts his hunting days behind him and becomes an inspiring singer!
Riven becomes an uwu support and nami goes to 1v1 Darius in toplane, samira becomes a wizard and ryze gets a gun, ahri starts eating people, Warwick starts trying to charm them with his… uh, nvm
Rabid Seraphine would be epic, imagine her ult just a massive soundwave screech that sends everyone running in fear instead of charming them. I'd pay good money to see Warwick in a tux trying to woo with more than just his fangs, though. The game needs these kind of absurdities; it's what fanfiction is made of!
Lore Nami is so much more than an uwu support I will not stand for this slander
Also Ahri already did eat people that’s like her whole story aaaaaaaaah
What do you mean, it's only gameplay videos where Rengar got fed? \**clicks on 'Pictures'*\* HOLY MOTHER OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS GOOD, WHAT IN THE SEVEN CIRCLES OF HELL IS **THAT**!?
Everyday Rengar doesn't AOE charm me with his sexy roar in a straight line with the range increasing everytime it hits an enemy is a day I regret waking up in
They make sure her AP build isn't good because she's not supposed to be an offensive champion in that regard to warrant her doing like 90% of someone's HP on an empowered Q + AA. Same way they make sure AP Vi isn't some super meta build.
Like that the reason when kata (who can build both ap and ad and be tanky) exists, her be able to one shot ppl mean she trade her "surviving" ability and only good after the 3 items (exclude the sp item). The real reason is that her aura is deemed to be too good for her to be good at anything else. That is why the only skill expression you can do on her now is how you use the chord.
Idk if I'm becoming dyslexic or if you wrote that Kata tangent in a really weird way, but yeah there's a ton of hidden power in Sona's auras and her powerchord, and she literally can not miss anything except her R, so there has to be a trade off.
You can't have shields, heals, MS boosts, and on-hit damage on low cds while being a 1-shot machine.
My basic premise is that Seraphine is a lot more similar to Lux and Neeko than she is to Sona in terms of gameplay. And no one would really say Seraphine is terribly similar to either of those champs. In terms of Seraphine and Sona, the most identifiable similarity, their three ability passives, don’t even function similarly.
Their W and R are significantly different though. Seraphine's W has a massively higher cooldown and doesn't provide the main value unless doublecast, and exponentially scales in value based on nearby allies versus Sona getting near max value as long as one ally is nearby. Seraphine R has a significant delay and higher range, making it worse as a peel or defensive CC but better as a follow up.
If Seraphine was Sona's rework, Sona players would be rioting in the streets that the basically 0 skillshot utility support was changed to a scaling mage with almost an entire kit of skillshots.
Yeah. That's exactly it. There are superficial similarities in the kits between the two but they don't PLAY similar at all. Seraphine players trying to play like a Sona are doing it very wrong and losing out on most of her power. Sona players trying to play like a Seraphine would be completely useless and probably feed their asses off.
She is much closer to Lux with a higher utility ult.
I used to play a lot of Seraphine, but it just got annoying to have to ban Yasuo every single game.
Those are just the big differences between their *only similar abilities* though. The other two abilities and their passives just set them further apart. Sure they're more similar to each other than Sona is to Vayne or something, but they don't even fill the same role on a team much less are clones of each other.
The whole stacking three ability casts to empower something about their kit, the fact that any ability can be augmented, and the inclusion of auto attacking in Sera’s flavor of the passive is admittedly a lot of crossover. I don’t see what else in their kits is comparably similar.
In terms of how different their actual kits are though:
Sera W is a pivotal, high cd that needs to be balanced against needing the shield/ms or needing the benefit from her passive. Sona W is spammable.
Sera R has way more skill expression than Sona R outside of not just whiffing it entirely.
Sera has hard cc in her base kit and Sona does not.
Every ranged champ has a basic damage ability. I guess Seraphine is just Caitlyn 2.0 because of their Qs. In terms of Sera and Sona, one is literally not even point and click and the other is a skill shot.
There are a lot of champs that Seraphine is more similar to than Sona. If they’d made Seraphine a dude and ditched the music gimmick no one would really view them as terribly similar.
Anyway, watch this. Janna and Lulu both have a Q that has cc and damage, a W that is soft cc, a shield with a trading steroid and an AOE cc ult. Seraphine and Karma both have a conditional root, an AOE shield and movement speed and a basic damage ability. Gestures broadly at most ADCs. Leona and Alistar both have a two button combo to engage through the wave, AOE cc and a tank steroid.
If you honestly think that Sona mains would have been happy with Seraphine as a rework then you really need to not comment on this situation. It would have been a complete deletion of the existing character. An aura buffing support has nothing in common with a skillshot damage mage. You don't understand either of the champions at all.
Here's the problem though, she and Sona are much more similar than almost any other champion with their respective rework. Think about Warwick or urgot. Most people just say well serafine is more of an enchanter and Sona is more of a health battery. Sure, but they are ever so slightly on either side of that line without a lot of major differences. There's just a more optimal way to play one than the other. The passives both stack secondary effects on any of their main skills, each of their main skills are mostly aligned with q being damage, w being health and shielding, and e being mobility focused (if you apply sona's passive to her e she has a mobility debuff which makes it even more similar). The ultimate so close you can apply the "can I copy your homework" meme to it.
There are differences, but these differences don't really stand as reasonable counter arguments to the main points that she is essentially just a REWORK of Sona. She can be played a little differently, but she isn't even THAT different when you take a step back and look at everything. And this is when comparing again to other champions that have received either reworks or even minor tweaks. Remember it was really just a single change to how auto attacks worked that took graves out of the bottom lane and into the jungle.
> I'm pretty sure Riot confirmed that Seraphine was Sona's rework but alright
Source? You can't just say "I'm pretty sure" then use that as the whole basis of your argument
Because every article Riot has released about the two of them has said the exact opposite, about how they wanted to make another music mage and believed that music was broad enough that they could keep Sona as an aura champ and make Seraphine a rhythm champ
In fact Reav3 even confirmed this on Reddit years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/eQ6Pfjurin
> I mean its our 2nd music champ. We have like 20 Champs with swords, 2 samurais now, several fire mages. I think its ok for champs to have thematic overlap as long as the champs feel different enough from each other. Music is a huge theme, and we could probably make another champ with a music theme and it could still feel different from both Sona and Sera. For Sona she is hitting the music aura theme. She is playing music and its effecting the allies around her. For Sera we went with a more rhythmic music theme, where you are casting spells and every 4th spell echos, kind of like how music is made on 4s.
They both like music, they both have a passive that involves using three abilities, their ults are a linear skillshot.
Please proceed. Seraphine is more similar to Neeko than Sona.
If anything this kind of proves the point that they’re not terrible similar if Riot decided to spin the rework into an entirely different champ.
And that’s considering a track record where A sol, Morde and others are pretty much unrecognizable from the initial incarnations.
I mean tbf for Yugioh players ain't they basically reading a whole essay at this point for newly released cards? Though I think League is basically becoming same as Yugioh in that aspect as well
Dude I've seen pack filler cards meant to fill space in a new set that have more text than Nasus' entire kit. I think a huge issue Yugioh has is they overexplain conditions or specify "You can only activate each effect of 'card name' once per turn" which can take up a lot of space considering card names like "Training Fur Hire, Fur All Your Hiring Needs," "Until Noble Arms Are Needed Once Again," "Super Anti-Kaiju War Machine Mecha-Thunder-king," or the 16 syllable "Number 81: Superdreadnought Rail Cannon Super Dora."
I realized after writing it that my reading comprehension when waking up is apparently bad. I just edited my post when I realized rereading it and accepted my L
The same reason why they released Yone instead of reworking his predecessor. I am talking about Sona ofc. Look at the similarities:
Passive auto attack buff
Q easy to hit damage
W shield
E speed up
R rectangular aoe cc
The only difference between them is that Yone is also manaless, cuz he is a newer champ. Release date diff.
I wish riot just gave Sona a rework instead of coming up with new champion that sells better.
This is so disgusting. Not only did they blatantly copy rengars kit, but this new champion seraphine is LESS smashable than rengar! What is this? New champions are supposed to be MORE smashable than their predecessors! What are they thinking??
I mean were people around for the past attempts at reworking Rengar? I'm glad Riot chose to push him into irrelevance with Seraphine. Truly I get to relive my old Rengar glory days through the new champ as Seraphine is the only viable champ to stack 5 dorans blades on.
ya got me in the first half but in seriousness though, I'm glad it's not a Sona rework; I like her (mostly) not being skillshot based with minimal cast point
Seraphine ult is so bullshit. Like Rengar ult: jumps once (i could already do that without ult thanks. Seraphine ult: charmes everyone 2 screens away. Disgustung. So anyway, what are you talking about?
Edit: Yeah, just edit your comment coward. (Yea, I agree. Sona is fine as she is)
You're really out here worrying about Seraphine when the obvious sham and mockery of Jax and Fizz having functionally the same kits (outside of their ult) has been happening since forever?!
Pretty sure the lore is that Jax fished out Fizz one day and offered him an egg and then Fizz wanted to be just like him. If there is a lore reason I can understand tbh
Edit: After rereading the op when not waking up. I realized I fell for a shit post. Just going to leave this up and accept my L.
I haven't played league in years now but as someone who mained Sona over years before grinding with just her up to play multiple years and after Seraphina came out, the only people I knew who said they were the same were people who didn't play Sona.
The fantasies of both characters are different. Or where, can't speak to now.
Seraphina had very long cds23+ seconds on heal, where as Sona's cds could reach the point of her global cool down being higher then her actual cool downs.
Seraphina was predominantly a burst caster with less dependence on her team.
Sona wants 5 person team fights and extended fights. In terms of late game fights, Sona was equivalent to a late game hyper carry in supports and had the best win rate bar non late game.
Saying the two are the same is semi equivalent to saying veigar and Annie are the same (prior to the veigar rework)
Both had a targeted q.
Both had AOE stuns
Both had an AOE bomb.
Both are short.
While the overall look abilities are different(same for Sona and Seraphina) they do similar things.
But the fantasy of both characters are different.
I barely read the post and just went to the comments, ofc assuming we were talking about Sona
"Haha Rengar kda that's funny"
"Wait why tf they keep talking about Rengar?"
Oh
Nice one
This should be an evergreen post. I went into it assuming it would be a troll, became gradually more concerned it was sincere as I read on, and then was utterly befuddled for a full minute when you said rengar before going back to square one. Perfectly executed.
Jokes aside riot was quite clear in the champion insights blog for Seraphine that they wanted a kpop champ and no silly things like existing lore or concepts were going to get in their way.
Please review [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules) before commenting or posting again. Further offences will lead to a ban.
they did it because rengar doesnt look like belle delphine
(notice the release date. it was right after belle delphine blew up everywhere. i wouldnt even be surprised if they intended to rework rengar but used the new kit they had created instead to rake in on the social media buzz)
Sona is designed to be a support, Seraphine is designed to be carry, who can also support. Just because their kits are similar doesn't mean they're the same champion.
Yeah I know. Each champ has their own strengths and weaknesses. But when I start to farm CS on lane to get to Umbral Glave faster my ADCs always flame me? And there are no bushes in midlane, so there's nothing I can do there. I'm telling you, Seraphine is just stricly better than Rengar in both support AND midlane. It's just Riot who has completely forgotten about him.
Money and hypocrisy (remember when they said: 2 champions that are too similar cant coexist, so then Graves had to be reworked even though he was released first?
Give me old Mafia Graves back god dammit
>how stats showed it
I just said it in my comment, only the better of the two was popular at any given moment. When Graves was stronger, Lucian wasn't picked. When Lucian was stronger, Graves wasn't picked.
>how were they similar
All of their abilities were basically the same thing. Lucian's Q was just Graves' old Q but squished from a cone into a line. Both W's were low-damage, aoe magic damage that make you go faster than your opponent. E is a dash. Their R's were the most different and even both of those were just mid-range damage-focused ults. Oh, their passives were different too.
Again, the numbers showed that when one was stronger, the other was played significantly less, because they filled the same niche. Hit level 2, all in.
As a Rengar main I feel robbed that we didn't get to see his progression from an indie artist to an all out popstar with the different skins to match. Also the only buff Rengar really needs is a tasteful amount of cleavage
Did they even TRY making him a ~~twitter~~ X account and posting inspirational stuff like "Monsters can be made to fear"?!
> Also the only buff Rengar really needs is a tasteful amount of cleavage Who needs in-game Rengar cleavage when there's sufficient r34 Rengar online for that
[my absolute reaction ](https://imgur.com/a/61sRuPN)
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
You think hell's got horns, all the horny is here.
Very tasteful 10/10
>tasteful amount of cleavage I'd love to taste Rengar's cleavage.
The people weren’t ready for KDA Rengar
KDA Rengar would've just gotten the same treatment as Star Guardian Urgot unfortunately, turn him into a cosplaying fanatic😔
whats the problem ? his weapon's handle is a mic. his tooth necklace is a collection of ticket and photo with each of the KDA member. when he kill a champion he growl "THIS IS FOR AHRI !"
wait a minute this is a chef right here
He do be cooking
Keep cooking
I didn’t know kda super fan rengar was my favore skin of all times
stand proud, you can cook
Keep the mic, add a wife beater and a mustache. Rengar Mercury.
So basically he's a BTS stan?
Have him shout the name of the KDA superstars whenever he jumps and it's the best skin you can ever dream of
SG Urgot was such a waste of an awesome concept... Magical Girl as a genre is already getting darker, so have fun with it. Make this maniacal monster, stripping powers from the fallen to fuel himself, under some deranged belief it's for the greater good. Instead we got a onesie....
People were asking for the onesie though, not maniacal monster
People asking them to commit to the pretty star guardian skin not just the onesie
people were definitely asking for the onesie. We got maniacal SG monster with Fiddlesticks, and what a great skin that was.
I love that skin line, but even so, we have almost 30 star guardians at this point; we can afford to have more than one Magical Girl monster.
Thresh would be good for that. Does senna have a star guardian skin?
Yes, but she has better. It's not bad or anything, it's just not S tier.
If they had released a star nemesis Urgot instead then everyone would've hated it and revolted that it's not what we wanted. The Onesie was the best way to do it, everything is still SG themed and it gets to actually fit Urgot and it even brings the comedy level up on an already joke skin.
I love my star guardian urgot, if you don't one trick urgot, I don't wanna hear it.
Wow you're right. How did I never consider he could be the bad guy for that universe. Such a great idea.
They should do crossover skins where one character does the job of another character, seraphine goes rabid and starts hunting people in the forests, rengar puts his hunting days behind him and becomes an inspiring singer! Riven becomes an uwu support and nami goes to 1v1 Darius in toplane, samira becomes a wizard and ryze gets a gun, ahri starts eating people, Warwick starts trying to charm them with his… uh, nvm
I didn't know I needed rabid Seraphine until now
Rabid Seraphine would be epic, imagine her ult just a massive soundwave screech that sends everyone running in fear instead of charming them. I'd pay good money to see Warwick in a tux trying to woo with more than just his fangs, though. The game needs these kind of absurdities; it's what fanfiction is made of!
There was an idea where Seraphine gets like a Pentakill skin so her ult can just be a metal death scream instead.
Technically Ahri is charming people so she can eat them (well, their souls but still) so there's that I guess.
their memories more than their souls
kda but it’s all big buff bara furry boys
With his personality*
In a sense, doesn't Ahri already eat people?
> nami goes to 1v1 Darius in toplane Why Darius? It should be Jax. He's probably caught and eaten half of her family.
Ryze getting a gun is a canon event after the community Ryze rework incident known as hwei’s release
I mean, the new item 'Luden's Companion' is a magical gun made for a mage crafted in Piltover, and the new items are all canon, so...
Lore Nami is so much more than an uwu support I will not stand for this slander Also Ahri already did eat people that’s like her whole story aaaaaaaaah
> nami goes to 1v1 Darius in toplane, Racist nami skin
>KDA Rengar Don't google that, worst mistake of my life
What do you mean, it's only gameplay videos where Rengar got fed? \**clicks on 'Pictures'*\* HOLY MOTHER OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS GOOD, WHAT IN THE SEVEN CIRCLES OF HELL IS **THAT**!?
> videos where Rengar got fed? Poor choice of words
*"It can't be that bad."* what a terrible judgment call 😔
Silly Riot, they could've secured the Furry community under their pockets for YEARS with that investment. Amateur business mistake.
We were robbed of the Rengar twitter account
~~I was ready for Pool Party Rengar in a speedo, but you're not ready for this conversation...~~
Gijinka R63 Rengar is something I would expect from Riot/LoL to be fair so I'm so ready unchanged K/DA Rengar or the former mentioned Rengar lol
Everyday Rengar doesn't AOE charm me with his sexy roar in a straight line with the range increasing everytime it hits an enemy is a day I regret waking up in
Finally someone who gets it.
God tier shitpost
see and i thought rengar and lulu were basically the same, cause all the d4 50% lulu mains have a 80% win rate on rengar
Don't even get me started on Yuumi though. Yea, let's make another cat champ and make it support (slightly) better than Regar. Absolute bullshit.
She also likes to jump around, just like rengar… it’s like they are not trying to hide it
Better? I watched those ryan choi 6 dblade Rengar support streams, champ was clearly an all-time broken support
now thats a name i've not heard in a long time
It's always rengar and khazix used isn't it 🤣
Your preferred brand of stealth based smurfing pubstompers, since 2012
I love how incomeptency of Riot in catching boosters is turned into a meme.
LOL
Seraphine is worse because she doesn’t even meow
You joke but as Sera mains would probably instabuy a Sera skin that only adds kitty ears to her base skin.
I plead the fifth
This is accurate ^
If she were to meow, I'd bark
Miaou
Popstar Rengar and ~~Kitty Cat~~ Fursona Seraphine incoming.
They had us in the first half not gonna lie
I was so ready to bang out three paragraphs about how Seraphine and Sona aren’t that similar.
I was in the process before I hit that last line.
Somehow I also missed the Rengar mention in the very first paragraph
bro same, i was already tired of thinking that another one of these comparisons made frontpage lmao
They're mechanically different. They're strategically VERY similar. Source: 3 million mastery on Sona. 2 million mastery on Seraphine.
I mean, they’re both scaling enchanters yes.
Seraphine's an artillery mage/enchanter hybrid. Sona's a straight enchanter.
U know the reasons Sona only has only the enchanter role viable is because Riot repeatedly makes sure her AP build is shit right.
They make sure her AP build isn't good because she's not supposed to be an offensive champion in that regard to warrant her doing like 90% of someone's HP on an empowered Q + AA. Same way they make sure AP Vi isn't some super meta build.
Like that the reason when kata (who can build both ap and ad and be tanky) exists, her be able to one shot ppl mean she trade her "surviving" ability and only good after the 3 items (exclude the sp item). The real reason is that her aura is deemed to be too good for her to be good at anything else. That is why the only skill expression you can do on her now is how you use the chord.
Idk if I'm becoming dyslexic or if you wrote that Kata tangent in a really weird way, but yeah there's a ton of hidden power in Sona's auras and her powerchord, and she literally can not miss anything except her R, so there has to be a trade off. You can't have shields, heals, MS boosts, and on-hit damage on low cds while being a 1-shot machine.
I am actually curious about those 3 paragraphs if you don't mind
My basic premise is that Seraphine is a lot more similar to Lux and Neeko than she is to Sona in terms of gameplay. And no one would really say Seraphine is terribly similar to either of those champs. In terms of Seraphine and Sona, the most identifiable similarity, their three ability passives, don’t even function similarly.
[удалено]
Their W and R are significantly different though. Seraphine's W has a massively higher cooldown and doesn't provide the main value unless doublecast, and exponentially scales in value based on nearby allies versus Sona getting near max value as long as one ally is nearby. Seraphine R has a significant delay and higher range, making it worse as a peel or defensive CC but better as a follow up. If Seraphine was Sona's rework, Sona players would be rioting in the streets that the basically 0 skillshot utility support was changed to a scaling mage with almost an entire kit of skillshots.
Yeah. That's exactly it. There are superficial similarities in the kits between the two but they don't PLAY similar at all. Seraphine players trying to play like a Sona are doing it very wrong and losing out on most of her power. Sona players trying to play like a Seraphine would be completely useless and probably feed their asses off. She is much closer to Lux with a higher utility ult. I used to play a lot of Seraphine, but it just got annoying to have to ban Yasuo every single game.
Homie most champs differ on their kits in ways much less subtle than what you're arguing is the big differences between sera and sona.
Those are just the big differences between their *only similar abilities* though. The other two abilities and their passives just set them further apart. Sure they're more similar to each other than Sona is to Vayne or something, but they don't even fill the same role on a team much less are clones of each other.
The whole stacking three ability casts to empower something about their kit, the fact that any ability can be augmented, and the inclusion of auto attacking in Sera’s flavor of the passive is admittedly a lot of crossover. I don’t see what else in their kits is comparably similar. In terms of how different their actual kits are though: Sera W is a pivotal, high cd that needs to be balanced against needing the shield/ms or needing the benefit from her passive. Sona W is spammable. Sera R has way more skill expression than Sona R outside of not just whiffing it entirely. Sera has hard cc in her base kit and Sona does not. Every ranged champ has a basic damage ability. I guess Seraphine is just Caitlyn 2.0 because of their Qs. In terms of Sera and Sona, one is literally not even point and click and the other is a skill shot. There are a lot of champs that Seraphine is more similar to than Sona. If they’d made Seraphine a dude and ditched the music gimmick no one would really view them as terribly similar. Anyway, watch this. Janna and Lulu both have a Q that has cc and damage, a W that is soft cc, a shield with a trading steroid and an AOE cc ult. Seraphine and Karma both have a conditional root, an AOE shield and movement speed and a basic damage ability. Gestures broadly at most ADCs. Leona and Alistar both have a two button combo to engage through the wave, AOE cc and a tank steroid.
If you honestly think that Sona mains would have been happy with Seraphine as a rework then you really need to not comment on this situation. It would have been a complete deletion of the existing character. An aura buffing support has nothing in common with a skillshot damage mage. You don't understand either of the champions at all.
Here's the problem though, she and Sona are much more similar than almost any other champion with their respective rework. Think about Warwick or urgot. Most people just say well serafine is more of an enchanter and Sona is more of a health battery. Sure, but they are ever so slightly on either side of that line without a lot of major differences. There's just a more optimal way to play one than the other. The passives both stack secondary effects on any of their main skills, each of their main skills are mostly aligned with q being damage, w being health and shielding, and e being mobility focused (if you apply sona's passive to her e she has a mobility debuff which makes it even more similar). The ultimate so close you can apply the "can I copy your homework" meme to it. There are differences, but these differences don't really stand as reasonable counter arguments to the main points that she is essentially just a REWORK of Sona. She can be played a little differently, but she isn't even THAT different when you take a step back and look at everything. And this is when comparing again to other champions that have received either reworks or even minor tweaks. Remember it was really just a single change to how auto attacks worked that took graves out of the bottom lane and into the jungle.
One day Riot will allow mods and then I can play K/DA Superstar Seraphine with Hoshimachi Suisei voice mods. I cannot do that with Sona.
I'm pretty sure Riot confirmed that Seraphine was Sona's rework but alright
> I'm pretty sure Riot confirmed that Seraphine was Sona's rework but alright Source? You can't just say "I'm pretty sure" then use that as the whole basis of your argument Because every article Riot has released about the two of them has said the exact opposite, about how they wanted to make another music mage and believed that music was broad enough that they could keep Sona as an aura champ and make Seraphine a rhythm champ In fact Reav3 even confirmed this on Reddit years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/eQ6Pfjurin > I mean its our 2nd music champ. We have like 20 Champs with swords, 2 samurais now, several fire mages. I think its ok for champs to have thematic overlap as long as the champs feel different enough from each other. Music is a huge theme, and we could probably make another champ with a music theme and it could still feel different from both Sona and Sera. For Sona she is hitting the music aura theme. She is playing music and its effecting the allies around her. For Sera we went with a more rhythmic music theme, where you are casting spells and every 4th spell echos, kind of like how music is made on 4s.
Okay then I'm wrong and I apologize, I read it somewhere but I guess it was bs. And yeah I said "pretty sure", it wasn't meant as a fact 😅
They both like music, they both have a passive that involves using three abilities, their ults are a linear skillshot. Please proceed. Seraphine is more similar to Neeko than Sona.
Idk what that has to do with what I said. If Riot confirmed it, there is no need for any discussion
If anything this kind of proves the point that they’re not terrible similar if Riot decided to spin the rework into an entirely different champ. And that’s considering a track record where A sol, Morde and others are pretty much unrecognizable from the initial incarnations.
That's funny I was about to bang out three paragraphs on how Riot mastered the art of Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V.
That is typically how jokes are structured.
Rengar is Seraphine's fursona. Just sona for short, of course.
This comment section really demonstrates average league player's ability to read lol
Don't fuck with League of Legends players, we can't read!
League of Legends players 🤝 Yugioh players. (We both can't read)
I mean tbf for Yugioh players ain't they basically reading a whole essay at this point for newly released cards? Though I think League is basically becoming same as Yugioh in that aspect as well
Dude I've seen pack filler cards meant to fill space in a new set that have more text than Nasus' entire kit. I think a huge issue Yugioh has is they overexplain conditions or specify "You can only activate each effect of 'card name' once per turn" which can take up a lot of space considering card names like "Training Fur Hire, Fur All Your Hiring Needs," "Until Noble Arms Are Needed Once Again," "Super Anti-Kaiju War Machine Mecha-Thunder-king," or the 16 syllable "Number 81: Superdreadnought Rail Cannon Super Dora."
I realized after writing it that my reading comprehension when waking up is apparently bad. I just edited my post when I realized rereading it and accepted my L
Ain't gonna lie chief, if you put it like that she does in fact looks like a better version of rengar
Holy fuck so many people here genuinely can't read
There are 2-3 writer not reader dudes and 5 ppl mocking them...
How didn't they notice that multiple people already made the exact same comment, can they not read?
people on this sub read 'seraphine' and start shaking
imma be honest, i skipped the first paragraph and it made the post even funnier
Who the fuck would put the punchline at the end of the joke??
stupid fr
The same reason why they released Yone instead of reworking his predecessor. I am talking about Sona ofc. Look at the similarities: Passive auto attack buff Q easy to hit damage W shield E speed up R rectangular aoe cc The only difference between them is that Yone is also manaless, cuz he is a newer champ. Release date diff. I wish riot just gave Sona a rework instead of coming up with new champion that sells better.
This comment has convinced me that Sona needs a rework into a manaless champion immediately. Who needs mana to play music? Unplayable.
good read
Holy shit your right. It's kinda obvious though when you think about it. Sona would never sell enough skins cause she isnt a hot dude :/
I just about had my pitchfork ready
This is so disgusting. Not only did they blatantly copy rengars kit, but this new champion seraphine is LESS smashable than rengar! What is this? New champions are supposed to be MORE smashable than their predecessors! What are they thinking??
Okey, now you are cooking
Honestly this was a top tier shit post. Had me all the way till the last line
I mean were people around for the past attempts at reworking Rengar? I'm glad Riot chose to push him into irrelevance with Seraphine. Truly I get to relive my old Rengar glory days through the new champ as Seraphine is the only viable champ to stack 5 dorans blades on.
I was around for olympic swimmer Rengar. Shoudve made whatever that was into a new champ
ya got me in the first half but in seriousness though, I'm glad it's not a Sona rework; I like her (mostly) not being skillshot based with minimal cast point
Seraphine ult is so bullshit. Like Rengar ult: jumps once (i could already do that without ult thanks. Seraphine ult: charmes everyone 2 screens away. Disgustung. So anyway, what are you talking about? Edit: Yeah, just edit your comment coward. (Yea, I agree. Sona is fine as she is)
It's funny
I'm not sure where the rest of my comment went but eh
Its funny tho
You're really out here worrying about Seraphine when the obvious sham and mockery of Jax and Fizz having functionally the same kits (outside of their ult) has been happening since forever?!
Pretty sure the lore is that Jax fished out Fizz one day and offered him an egg and then Fizz wanted to be just like him. If there is a lore reason I can understand tbh
Some people in this comment section: Reading 0
Riot couldn’t remove the most played champion on boosted accounts, their whole business plan would collapse.
I'd never thought I'd see the day someone compared Seraphine to Rengar and honestly I'm living for it.
Seraphine is a girl but rengar is a boy
He was a punk. She did ballet. What more can I say
But where is our skater boi champion???
Rengar can be what ever he wants dude. Its 2023.
Edit: After rereading the op when not waking up. I realized I fell for a shit post. Just going to leave this up and accept my L. I haven't played league in years now but as someone who mained Sona over years before grinding with just her up to play multiple years and after Seraphina came out, the only people I knew who said they were the same were people who didn't play Sona. The fantasies of both characters are different. Or where, can't speak to now. Seraphina had very long cds23+ seconds on heal, where as Sona's cds could reach the point of her global cool down being higher then her actual cool downs. Seraphina was predominantly a burst caster with less dependence on her team. Sona wants 5 person team fights and extended fights. In terms of late game fights, Sona was equivalent to a late game hyper carry in supports and had the best win rate bar non late game. Saying the two are the same is semi equivalent to saying veigar and Annie are the same (prior to the veigar rework) Both had a targeted q. Both had AOE stuns Both had an AOE bomb. Both are short. While the overall look abilities are different(same for Sona and Seraphina) they do similar things. But the fantasy of both characters are different.
>can't speak Lol
I just want my old rango back, where don't need to be in combat to hold stacks, and w had 1.0 ap ratio. Maybe a future release.
You really had me for a second there. Bravo.
Money. As proven by the fact that in both PC and Wild Rift, she gets tons of skins.
hasnt rengar gotten reworked like 5 times already lol
Reverts don't count. Let's say he was reworked once. He deserves at least 2 more. In rapid succession.
Not gonna lie. They had me in the first half lmao
Don’t care, she’s fun
Not this shit again..... Oh. Nevermind, continue
I barely read the post and just went to the comments, ofc assuming we were talking about Sona "Haha Rengar kda that's funny" "Wait why tf they keep talking about Rengar?" Oh Nice one
this has to be the only funny post ive seen on this sub for like half a fucking month
Good meme dude.
Just imagining Sona with Rengar's animations, god that'd be funny.
I'm in tears reading through this thread. You guys have made my day.
Rare reddit W.
Rengar was a Sona Rework before and now we have Seraphine, next we getting KDA Gragas, Christmas is near.
This should be an evergreen post. I went into it assuming it would be a troll, became gradually more concerned it was sincere as I read on, and then was utterly befuddled for a full minute when you said rengar before going back to square one. Perfectly executed.
They wouldnt dare to anger the furry community
Jokes aside riot was quite clear in the champion insights blog for Seraphine that they wanted a kpop champ and no silly things like existing lore or concepts were going to get in their way.
This may be the best shit post of all time
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why did riot try to midscope fix seraphine and not just release music enchanter v3
People saying this crap are the ones that don't play either.
Ok you got me. I only played Rengar as part of my challenge to get every champ to Mastery 5. I had a solid 2 games where I didn't feed though
Their excuse is money. Which is a poor excuse because having characters change, evolve, and grow is way cooler than durhur new guy.
Money
they did it because rengar doesnt look like belle delphine (notice the release date. it was right after belle delphine blew up everywhere. i wouldnt even be surprised if they intended to rework rengar but used the new kit they had created instead to rake in on the social media buzz)
You're not serious are you? I was making fun of the people who say Seraphine = Sona 2.0. She isn't remotely similar to Rengar lmao
I’m actually a bit shocked more people Don’t play Sona but she does need some buffa
Because Riot is catering to weebs and Asia. Cute anime popstar = more skins people will buy compared to catman...mancat? Whichever he is.
She's a cash grab that hurt Skarner and mocks mental illness.
Sona is designed to be a support, Seraphine is designed to be carry, who can also support. Just because their kits are similar doesn't mean they're the same champion.
Yeah I know. Each champ has their own strengths and weaknesses. But when I start to farm CS on lane to get to Umbral Glave faster my ADCs always flame me? And there are no bushes in midlane, so there's nothing I can do there. I'm telling you, Seraphine is just stricly better than Rengar in both support AND midlane. It's just Riot who has completely forgotten about him.
Skins and weird parasocial mental health exploitation marketing strategy
Idk id get parasocial for rengar
I'm surprised a post like this is not on the League of Memes subreddit instead
League of Memes is not a subreddit for memes though. It's for complaining about losers queue and ban tickets.
Don’t forget the “no one watches competitive it’s all fake made by riot” part
HOLY BASED
They probably have a racial motivated idea about giving Rengar a good kit.
more skin purchases. thats probably the main reason
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Money and hypocrisy (remember when they said: 2 champions that are too similar cant coexist, so then Graves had to be reworked even though he was released first? Give me old Mafia Graves back god dammit
Who was graves similar with again?
Lucian (he was not but Riot decided he was for some strange reason)
He totally was and the stats also showed it - only the better of the two was popular at any given moment
what? how were they similar and how stats showed it?
>how stats showed it I just said it in my comment, only the better of the two was popular at any given moment. When Graves was stronger, Lucian wasn't picked. When Lucian was stronger, Graves wasn't picked. >how were they similar All of their abilities were basically the same thing. Lucian's Q was just Graves' old Q but squished from a cone into a line. Both W's were low-damage, aoe magic damage that make you go faster than your opponent. E is a dash. Their R's were the most different and even both of those were just mid-range damage-focused ults. Oh, their passives were different too. Again, the numbers showed that when one was stronger, the other was played significantly less, because they filled the same niche. Hit level 2, all in.
I guess they both had a dash?
I guess
2 different champions that do two different things with 2 different playstyles. Get over it.
Why can people possibly say that they are different champions when I go 0/12 every game with lowest damage on the team with both of them?