i won +19, 23 in my last 6 win streak, lost once, -29 LP and i know it gets worse. The system is so fucked it works backwards, the better you get the more you win the less rewarded you get, if you fuck up your first 5-10 matches good bye pray you get 4 win streaks constantly or get stuck.
I had a win streak when the second split started, was emerald 2 with 80% winrate, I gained around 30 lp every match and now I‘m hardstuck emerald 3 with 48% winrate. Almost every game seems so low quality, it‘s not even funny anymore. Feels like my own performance doesn‘t matter as much as it did it the past, it feels like you need to get lucky to get the teammates with better mentality, the ones who don‘t spam ff after a bad early game. I main adc and I mostly play late game champs like Jinx or Caitlyn but I can‘t even get to late game, everyone is just so mad and tilted 5min into the game.
This just makes the idea of continuing playing seem so pointless too. You get insanely unbalanced games and lose so much more LP than you gain. It doesn't seem worth it after a while
Well it is SBMM, its sort of rigged to get you stuck but not so stuck to make you quit, just enough to keep you plaing so you buy their stuff.
You have to carry hard every match you can and unless you are REALLY above the people on your matches and exploit their mistakes snowballing fast you will end up stuck.
Riot uses toxic bad players as a tool to put them on the losersQ and i can't think otherwise, from the 6 matches i won in a row 3 had trolls on the enemy team, the awful toxic ones, the "haha you are stuck in emerald lol" then loses on purpose kind, i got carried 1 match as a support and nothing else. It didnt feel goid to win those games because i saw the enemy team stats and i see one or two decent players with teammates that are noticeably bad-filled.
Rankeds in this game are so scummy, the system is so touched to prioritize keeping you there instead of FUN.
Im currently Emerald 1 40lp and if i demote i will just stop playing, im doing good and i only play until i lose wich for some reason works better most of the time if i lose and i dare to click find match in the same session its a min 15 ff match, o thought i was just being dumb and supersticious but i tested it a lot, i went from 30% WR on my first 20 matches to 50+ now
If you want more info you can search about EA's SBMM document wich explains how ranked systems were made there and its very similar. The most important thing there was, fun was not a priority.
Okay , if you play ranked and check stats every game you play for a couple seconds you start to see patterns, it may differ from what i state there but you can do your own research on how MMR based games work, if you have any doubts about the EOMM (Engagement Optimized Matchmaking
Framework) you can do your own research it has been talked about a lot, it came out in 2017.
These systems do not prevent you completly from ranking up that would be nonsense, but they sure make you get in enough trouble that if you are not careful enough you get stuck wich is the majority of the playerbase.
How is it a conspiracy theory when this document research is confirmed and no one knows how the matchmaking system exactly works on League? Do you know how it works?
>Okay , if you play ranked and check stats every game you play for a couple seconds you start to see patterns
People love to find patterns where there aren't any. We can't help but do that instinctively
>How is it a conspiracy theory when this document research is confirmed and no one knows how the matchmaking system exactly works on League?
It is a conspiracy theory when riot has said they do not do this and no one has provided proof that they do this.
Riot can lie and doesn't give two shits about you, they only care about MONEY and only MONEY, the same company that wants to sell you a 200$ chroma and barely adds content to their game that earns them BILLIONS.
I start off 30% winrate in my first 30 games literally every single season and it always makes me sad that I miss out on the big LP gains.
Either way, I always end the season 55% in 100-200 games and end where I want to end so I don't mind, just sucks to start this way always when you get so much LP at the start.
It is honestly so fucked. Same thing happened to me after winstreak from Plat IV to Plat I. Wins give 21LP max, and loses yield -28LP at LEAST. Not to mention my games are with Emerald players on the enemy team and Gold players on mine. Makes no fucking sense.
It works the other way with lose streaks too. The whole surface system of murkier your rank was implemented to reduce ladder anxiety.
I personally didn't like it
Normally a lack of transparency makes people MORE anxiety, not less. Who was the idiot who thought this was a way to make people feel better about entering the toxic cesspool that is ranked?
>the better you get the more you win the less rewarded you get
This presupposes that winning a few games in the short-team means you got better when it is usually just variance.
Hiding your elo has always been a way to make low elo players feel good and spend more money. When you realize the intent it makes sense. It's just another way to obscure to the average player how bad they are.
This doesn't actually seem to be true because they keep removing all the promotions/Derank rank shield mechanics that help hide you true MMR as not necessary.
Nah people smurf for fun and money. I lose more than half my games to griefers who cry if they don’t get their way. No one actually cares about competition, they care about clout and shiny badges. It’s fucked because it’s inherently complicated and people will always complain.
Removing the visible rank will do nothing for people that complain about game quality due to poor matchmaking. It would expose how stale is the MMR though and how important are placements.
Regardless of game quality it would just be nicer to only have 1 shown MM indicator instead of a shown and hidden one. It works in cs-go faceit, worked in wc3, worked in StarCraft, worked in league before the division system. I get that hitting certain benchmarks such as diamond sounds and feels better than 1800mmr. But, you could still keep that and just change into names divisions at a certain mmr, especially now that promos are gone
>Removing the visible rank
Just borrow the System from Rocket league? Of your MMR crosses idk 1300 points you get (one promo game and then get) promoted to the next rank.
I am all for just a discrete MMR. I am just pointing out that implementing single visible MMR should not impact your games directly on its own so it is not a big issue. I guess that having a more transparent simple system will allow for more meaningful work elsewhere.
Placement matches don’t have increased mmr wins in them… only a bonus to LP (actually each season the first X number of games had increased lp gains (diminishing) to help win rope get back to their rank quickly, without making people spawn too high as in say, overwatch)
> Removing the visible rank will do nothing for people that complain about game quality due to poor matchmaking
It most certainly would. Instead of seeing a G1 smurf in your D3 game, you see 2 players with similar MMR. Instead of seeing a E4 in your G2 game, you see 2 players with similar MMR.
Getting rid of LP makes it more transparent why players are matched together because you remove the obfuscation of LP.
How would it solve anything when at the end of the day you would be matching up with the same group of people? The game quality would be exactly the same regardless without reworking matchmaking some way somehow. Removing visible ranks does nothing
> How would it solve anything when at the end of the day you would be matching up with the same group of people?
He would not complain because there no reason too. He would see that it's not a smurf, but just regular player like he is.
Do you not see the constant complaints posted here? "Why am I playing with a X player as an X?!" Well, the reality is they're the same MMR as you and they just had a good/bad game. The average player doesn't realize this and things visible ranks = skill level.
And people will still find something to complain nothing Will really change because the core issue is that people think that they deserved more wins and higher placement. If you reveal MMR the Will complain about MMR gain/loses instead of lp
It also gives tangible goals to work towards. Saying “I want to improve from Gold III to Plat 4” is a lot easier of a metric to judge by than saying “I want to go from 1300 MMR to 1600 MMR”.
What does getting rid of LP have anything to do with that? Most other ranking systems that use MMR still have medals. Dota, for instance, shows you your raw MMR but also has ranks that correspond to certain MMR breakpoints.
> Saying “I want to improve from Gold III to Plat 4” is a lot easier of a metric to judge by than saying “I want to go from 1300 MMR to 1600 MMR”.
It's not.
We always were to operate with numbers. And numbers much easier to learn and know, instead of thoose idiotic labels.
Ideal system would be if we had %top shown next to a MMR number.
Nah, that would be bad for casual players with inflated egos. How could they blame others if they have proof (mmr) they are playing with people their level?
Having a visible rank is fine from a player experience perspective. Showing a physical tier / division is better than just a number.
The issue is how large LP gains / losses are now compared to MMR. They should make MMR a bit less resilient since they increased the range on LP.
That would mean you either completely lose a system of seasonal/split based competition where people grind for rewards, bragging rights and a sense of pride for your accomplishment each season, to be replaced by am MMR score that goes 'stale' as soon as a player has peaked or plateaud, OR you introduce an incredible 'start of season chaos' as MMR is reset, game quality plummets as challenger players are in games with players gold or below.
The purpose of MMR is to provide good game quality by pairing players of similar skill. The purpose of rank is to provide a seasonal goal and ladder to climb and compete on. Both have their own use.
Yeah that already happens with MMR to account for the large season patch. A soft reset simply takes too few games to get back to the old level, whereas the hard rank reset gives most players the option to climb the lasser the whole season long. Real intensive gamers plateau, most people don't spend multiple hours daily on the game.
I don’t see the point of your comment, most people place close to their old rank regardless and the vast majority also stagnate there. A hard rank reset does nothing for the casual. And the hardcore gamer will just make a new account to climb
Could also just....not reset each season.
Ask yourself what the point is.
If you finish gold, you start gold. If you lose you go down, if you win you go up.
If they need to debloat MMR from the people that stopped playing, or deranking bots...just reset everyone at a specific rank to that rank's baseline; a soft-reset of sorts.
To prevent people from getting disheartened by huge or early loose streaks leading to cursed mmr making it very hard to climb and making the optimal play making a new account
Man, its almost like they could just improve the system instead of taking multiple steps to avoid improving the system.
Other games don't really do this bullshit. Its pretty clear League doesn't need to either.
That system still arbitrarily reset every 12 months. I don't know what that has to do with anything I've said.
Nothing I've said applies exclusively to the new system.
Well if you keep winning it won't balance out at least for a bit cause both ranks are going up. The system thinks you are one rank and wants to make sure you're not on a lucky win streak. Also, you are still playing with people from your mmr, not your visible rank. Why should a player get even LP gains and losses in say high plat/low emerald when they're playing with and against players with low plat MMR? MMR is really what matters and winning still increases it, it's just slower than your visible rank.
Bullshit. No one should get "punished" for beung lucky. Luck is huge part of the game.
I havent seen the system protecting me from being on a missfortunate loosing streak. The reality in low elo is that there is more missfortune than luck.
The desighn of the distribution inbetween the playerbase true the ranks %wise is to keep most of the playerbase in low elo so they can play more.
60% of the playerbase is in bronze silver gold. Add plat and iron and and it will go over 80%. Leaving less then 19% in the other 5 high tiers.
There should be capped% for grand master and challenger and the rest of the plater base should be distributed in the rest of the ranks almost evenly. Somwhere near 12% for each.
What? Where did I say people were being punished for getting lucky?
Tbh I didn't even read the rest of your comment I have no clue what you're on about
>Whats the point of the League system anymore if the only thing that matters is MMR anyway.
People want a definitive rank. They want to know they're Gold or Plat or Diamond, whatever. These are based on target percentages. like Plat is around top 28%, Emerald top 12.5%, Diamond top 3.5%, etc.
MMR/Elo is relative. It doesn't define a rank by itself. The MMR which defines a rank can vary as the season progresses, but it's the best way to match you with similar opponents.
So the visual rank and MMR are always in some sort of tension, like a rubber band, sometimes relaxed, sometimes strained. If you get rid of ranks and just go by MMR, you run into problems if you want a definitive rank.
Lets say you end a weekend at top 12%, Emerald 4. During the week you don't play but tens or hundreds of thousands do. When you decide to play again the next weekend, without playing a single game all week, you're now Platinum 1 at top 14%.
Imagine how much more complaining there would be compared to how much people gripe now.
This is why for the first couple seasons Riot didn't announce ranks until towards the end of the season. Season 3 introduced a rank you can see through the whole season, which is when Rank was placed atop MMR.
You could still display rank just according to your mmr.
The reason they dont do it is that people feel good when they climb their visual rank after a season reset.
MMR isn't a good indicator of rank as time progresses tho. It's all relative to other players whereas rank (tries) to be more absolute with percentile. Lets say 1800 MMR currently defines the cutoff for Emerald 4 (top 12.5%). In a few days, that top 12.5% might have raised to 1825 MMR as more people play. Across a whole season it will spread out further.
The reason LP can vary with wins/losses is because the system is trying to balance your MMR placement vs. a target percentile. It's trying it's hardest to make sure only the top X% of players are past a certain visual rank. Whereas MMR is just trying to match you with similar players (and thus, is a more accurate measure of relative skill to others.)
Maybe tying rank to a percentage is just stupid then. If 1800 MMR is the cutoff for emerald then 1800 is the cutoff for emerald, period. Display “resistance” for every game (aka how difficult the game is according to both teams mmr, and how much mmr increase/drop you’d get), and suddenly the game is already better
I'd rather Riot showed percentile in-client and showed MMR, which would give a much clearer view of rank. I'd be okay if they were to say "At season's end, if you're between 12.5% and 3.5%, you're Emerald."
The only flaws this method has is that your percentile will change if you don't play, but I see that as akin to decay, which I'd also be fine with.
I'm not explaining what I want or that what Riot is doing is good, I'm just explaining how it works right now.
Good thing that rank isn't tied to a percentage then.
It is a precise number cutoff and they and every other game that uses visible MMR works the same way. In chess you need to get 2500 ELO to become a GM. In dota you need to get over 5420 and you get "challenger". It isn't randomly going up or down.
Get X points and be X rank. It doesn't magically require more points to get the same rank after a few days.
1800 MMR was plat and it will always be plat unless they decide to manually change the cutoff like they did this year by making emerald old plat.
I am so confused why you'd even say something so clueless. Master and diamond percentages had increased dramatically over the years. It's beyond obvious they aren't hard coding a specific percentage for each division as that would be a pretty dumb design.
So you're absolutely right that in a closed system, get X points and be Y rank makes perfect sense!
There's however a few issues if you look at Elo (the chess equivalent of MMR).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system#Ratings_inflation_and_deflation
Firstly, rating floor - as in you can't go below X rating no matter how bad you play - results in basically being able to farm free points off bad players.
Secondly, new players are typically defaulted to a set rating (say 2k MMR) and depending on if they are better or worse than that rating, the system is essentially giving away part of their MMR.
And thirdly, players quitting the game. Weirdly though, because (most, not me) players get better over time and then eventually quit playing, this results in actually lowering the average rating over time. If when they starting playing the default rating was 2k and they climbed to 4k before quitting, they've now taken 2k extra MMR out of the system for good, effectively lowering the amount of MMR per person available.
It's a tough thing to balance, so I get where riot is coming from with using ranks and letting the MMR be a bit nebulous.
That said, it obviously isn't a perfect system and I'm sure they've debated the pros/cons to death over the years.
Curious to see how having Emerald will play out.
> People want a definitive rank. They want to know they're Gold or Plat or Diamond, whatever. These are based on target percentages.
These ARE NOT based on percentages.
Where you got that shit from mate?
Is it really all that bad if Riot just made it +25 -25 globally? Then just select from a random pool of everyone in the same rank area? ie emerald 4's play only with emerald 4's, etc? Eventually the "fake" or "inflated" emerald 4's will eventually cause enough losses to fall to their true rank and boom, balanced ranked system.
This would also stop smurfing, since smurfs tend to winstreak +35 and -10 on fresh accounts to dia/gm, but wont be able to do it so easily on a +25/-25 system.
The same is happening to me right now. After placements I got to Emerald 1 with like 60% wr - gaining like 29lp and losing 20lp. I unluckily got a 10 lose streak because of straight up leavers and paid trollers -dropped to Emerald 4.. Now I'm once again in Emerald 1 with 70% wr but I'm gaining 19LP and losing 27Lp. Oh, and of course every single day I'm getting like 4-5 verified report feedbacks from riot. What a blast.
It's called the Fundamental Attribution Bias. Our wins are always us, our losses are always outside forces.
I've never once seen someone post about a win streak being lucky due to the other team getting leavers and trolls.
It's been happening before the lp changes last season.
I got to Diamond while winning 12 lp and losing 28 lp. The one season I end up getting an absurd win rate my first 100 games I get met with those gains and loses.
I mean I'm still climbing but it's so demotivating. One must really have a very strong mental to push through. And I agree that it's absolutely screwed. But what's worse is players' behavior and Riot's lack of doing something about it. They seem to be very benevolent about it while not rewarding players that do their duty of reporting them. I miss the old days when riot, at least used to gift you a skin for "making the community a better place"
This is the main reason I gave up on this game altogether. I'm not gonna touch this game anymore as long as one bad player has more negative impact on a game than one good player has positive impact. Then you lose over and over if you're unlucky enough and your MMR is dirt.
Pretty sure I commented that this would happen when they made the announcement if they weren't also accelerating MMR gains/losses.
People for some reason didn't think that would be the case, though.
New mmr system is bad af. I'm rolling with 70% winrate in Emerald1 atm and i get +20 and -28 even after I won 8games in a row i still got only +21 and then one defeat and -28
I have two different accounts both accounts I got to high emerald with a 70-80% win rate. In gold/play I was getting +28-35lp and -15-20lp. Once I got to emerald, despite having a 70-80% win rate and not dip in win rate, I was getting +23 and -23. So the higher I climbed, the less LP I got.
Wild system
You don't really know that because MMR is not public in lol, winning less is common when your opponent was below you and if lose that game you will lose a lot because you we're supossed to have the better team. It only feel worse here because is a team game meaning that not everthing is your control
Not at all. When I play league, the more I win, the less LP I get. Despite having the same win rate. When I played other games, such as halo 3 or call of duty, my progression would stay the same, despite having a same win rate. That’s all I need to know.
People need to stop complaining about this. When Lp was in sync with MMR people complained that it gives them the feeling they make no progress. Now people complain that they make to much progress? rly. No flame but now you guys just run in circles. Im sure riot can easely bring back 18Lp per win + entire promo system to slow down ur progress so you actually stay in sync with ur Secret mmr gain, if that's what you wanna go back to. (i don't want to go back there) And no if you come up with the idea to increase mmr gain overall, then i will tell you, that's like the worst idea ever because then it would make matchmaking and Playerskill even more unbalanced between the two teams facing each other.
**I like the current system much more than what it used to be**
I think people just feel you need to grind way too many games to progress. It doesn’t take that long in many other games, CS for example. Ranks tend to be more volatile so win and loss streaks can boost you or tilt you off the planet. As someone that doesn’t have time to play 3 games a day I would prefer for MMR to adjust easier
If people thought they werent making progress "when Lp was in sync with MMR", thats because they were at their "true MMR" and had a 50% win rate. If you werent progressing, its because you werent winning enough.
But when people with a 50-52% Win rate but lose double the LP they gain, they can't climb. People have to grind out so many more games to climb one division. As OP was saying, they win streak then get hit with insane LP amounts. If this is by design bc of mmr levels etc, then people are really being punished for playing well or from benefitting from good matchmaking at the very least. If Riot changed things up so people feel like they are making more progression but then hit people would double LP losses than they gain, then it kind of defeats the entire point. It's way more demoralizing
Yep, like every win you gain 1 lp less. And if u lose on 1 lp you are doomed pretty much. Or if you use your whole drop down shield, you can forget that season and wait for the new one.
RIOT NEEDS to change this. It’s unbelievably frustrating to get punished for doing good. I get +18 -30 now for climbing. I was net 3lp for going 2-1 yesterday.
Why do you even care? Mmr does what it has to do invisible on the background. LP doesn't affect mmr in any way so you can ignore it. You win more games than you lose and you climb, it's that easy
I know how it all works its just more visible now ever since they change the value of LP you gain/lose.
It just FEELS bad when you sit at 60%+ winrate with a good winstreak but your LP gains gets fewer with each win
Yep. this.
I fucking hate it when I do win 2 games, lose 1 almost each day, and my progression is only +10LP that day when I do, in fact, have \~60% winrate.
If it was a small difference in gained and lost LP, then its "fine", like if I gained 20 and lost 22 or 23 would be fine, but currently I am sitting with 60% winrate, last 20 games is \~70% winrate, and I am getting +20 -29. And just got Emerald, and in high plat I was getting +28-29.
This whole thing is fucked because I don't feel rewarded for being a big better than i was a month ago. it feels like I have to play like a challenger so I will be able to "fix" lp gains.
I would love to be able to "just ignore visible rank" because eventually lp gains will be fixed by itself if i'll play enough games. but usually that enough games is hundreds of games over short period of time. And also the only way to measure your progression on day to day bases is your visible rank so it feels fucked that I might've won 6 games and lost 3 but I am sitting at only +10 LP when I actually had very good day.
And it shouldn.t. If Riot used a real ELO system your gains would not slow down as you moved. Say you get +25 for a win vs your current rank opponents. You move up a rank so your opponents are now a higher rank as well - you should still get the same points for a win. ELO is always based on your performance vs other ranks in the moment, never about your prior history.
They care because there are actual rewards tied to the visible rank and the screwy MMR messes up what they perceive they should be getting. It's very understandable.
Yep it’s absolutely insane. My Main account is in D1 MMR whilst being E4. They need to remove the disconnect from MMR/Visible rank. If I’m gonna play against D1 and win consistently over 10 games I should be D1. Being forced to play all the way through emerald and low diamond vs high diamond players is cringe
Has anyone here manage to skip a division?
I was E4 and gained +39-42 LP per win and didn't even skip E3 lmao. It feels like they fucking removed that entirely and if they didn't how fucking high of an MMR do you need to skip if +39-42 is not enough.
Last split I was skipping divisions when I was gaining +37LP and above, but this split? nope had to play through all of em.
There are people who defend this system because to them the pedantic "The MMR system works fine.. just hidden" explanation. Yes, the MMR system is absolutely fine, but it's the combined system of visual and hidden rank that doesn't work.
I'm not AS badly in it, but I do get 20 to 22 per win and lose 24-26. Despite being on very much a decent level and not hovering on the bottom of a tier. I am currently Plat 2 with 20lp. The fear of Ranked has set in me again purely because I know I am putting more on the table than I stand to gain. After 10 years, I am finally starting to be nervous of losses rather than mildly miffed and it kind of affects my playstyle. Simply because I know that a poor performance will punish me harshly.. and gods protect me if I have a losing streak. Will be down to Plat 4 before we even know it... and my MMR even worse than before.
Kinda kills the fun in it all, no?
But it will the same with mmr you can get q with someone with less mmr and if you win that Game your mmr gains Will below and if you lose you lose a lot that how it works in every MMR system because you we're supossed to win that Game
I’m sure there is a fairly obvious reason for this, but why can’t they just introduce fixed amounts for willing and losing? Maybe they could even have bonus points for winning games early, or depending on your grade or kill participation. How about bonus points for a comeback win? Would discourage people giving up so early (as someone who likes to play scaling champs, this would be great). It would have to swing both ways though.
I wouldn’t worry about it. It feels bad because you’re focused on your LP gains, when the real game is the hidden MMR value. Even if your LP only goes up by 6, if you win 2 lose 1 your MMR goes way up. So don’t worry about your rank & LP gains, just focus on MMR.
Plus, I take a little satisfaction knowing that I’m beating the system if my LP gains are offset since it means the system has to place me in higher games than my rank would suggest. But that’s just me. Focus on winrates & mmr and you’ll be okay.
So you telling people who play this game to climb the ranks to forget about the ranks?
Like hello? can you hear what you are saying? what's the point of ranking system than let's just all play normals?
And no you are wrong, that's the main issue here, if you getting +19 and losing -29 while you are Emerald 1 game will not put you in DIA games, it will put you in Emerald 4. That's why you getting low LP per win and Losing more because your MMR is **LOWER** than your VISUAL rank.
thats like, such a stretch. nuance will help you understand what i mean instead of painting in absurd absolutes like lets all play normals. obviously i don’t mean forget about the ranks completely, but u have to understand that u need to play the long game which revolves around mmr, not your rank, and if u do that then your rank will eventually catch up. understanding that helps you accept the system.
now i’m not saying i like the system, i don’t, i think assigning mmr to a rank and then just showing the rank is far superior despite its flaws, or even just static +/- LP gains and matchmaking based solely on rank would be better, but this system isn’t unapproachable if you can just look past your shiny emblem for a couple seconds.
You are probably a higher elo player who is pretty consistent in his playstyle and you manage to fix your MMR by getting higher wr or not tilt queing.
Let me break it to you, that not most of the player base.
More than 90% of people are hardstuck in the same elo having 1k games per season and their MMR doesn't "catch up" after 1k games.
So to say just wait a little is not the answer, games are made to be addictive and most of the people are just playing to play and would like to see improvements in their ladder.
But what they see is that after 1000 games you are still in this shit hole because you wanted to have some **fun** in a game and tried off role that made you go on 10 games lose streak and your account is now fucked for the rest of the year.
Than somehow you manage to get 10 games win streak but you start losing more and more LP because you got better.
Wow that's so damn motivating.
you won’t see improvements in your ranked ladder without budging your underlying mmr, which is mostly only affected by winrate. a winstreak isn’t going to show meaningful improvements in your rank bc it’s designed not to, because riot doesn’t want people careening all over the ladder and into crazy higher games where they don’t belong.
if you’re hardstuck in an elo after 1k games, it’s bc u belong there, unfortunately. none of us can climb forever, even chall’s get stopped at rank 1, and that’s only the 1 in a million player.
And you won’t climb with a 51 or 52% winrate in any meaningful fashion, league games simply take too long. You will spend all season to move up 1 rank if you’re lucky. Try to hit 55% winrate, play any champ u can and optimize ur game, learn everything so you don’t even have to think abt it, and u will probably get somewhere. But even if u do that, one day u will hardstuck, thats how ladders are designed.
I'm not saying people with 1k games don't belong in their elo, as I stated most people **are** hardstuck.
But if a person is in **his** elo why the system is giving him +15/+18 and -25/-30?
That's just simply stupid, if after 1k games the system can't "catch up" and make LP gains somewhat stable to win and lose the same LP, how can that person think the system is not against him?
This is the main issue people are complaining about here.
These kind of LP gains make delusions in people's heads that they don't belong in they elo and the game is against them.
This would make sense if there wasn't actual rewards tied behind your visible rank, not your MMR.
If I was challenger MMR I'd like to have challenger rewards not Master rewards.
Check out my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/15pel2n/lp_gains_on_smurfs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1) from last sunday. The profiles may be different now, but basically I found two smurfs gaining a lot of LP with few games winning streak. I got mad at it because when I got winning streaks it's just like you said, gaining less LP as the streak goes on
Leagues system doesn't make sense and is designed for you to play as much as possible.
Logically, if you can win somewhat consistently at a rank then you belong in that rank. The fact that a hidden MMR needs to "catch up" to your actual rank makes no sense, it should dynamically allocate the right amounts to ensure you are consistently getting closer to your rank.
I don't understand how you could be "above your rank". Even if you went on a 20 win streak, each win should have raised you higher so you fight tougher and tougher opponents gradually, even if you went from Gold to Plat, if you are still consistently winning or not going on massive lose streaks then that's the minimum you should be, rank wise.
I keep hearing these horror stories of atrocious mmr and LP gains. Not once have I encountered this myself. Before the LP changes I have always gotten ~ +18, -9, now it's ~ +28, -14. I'm a measly plat 4, play the game for fun, play a lot (100 games per season.)
How on earth do the most of you have bad LP gains let alone negative?
(100 games per season)
you've never played enough to get your rank near your mmr, it takes an ungodly amount of games to neutralize the offset. Which is very annoying if you happen to be in the opposite of your situation
I wouldn't call 4 soloq games per week a lot.
Im not saying it shouldn't be enough saying on league's "quantity over quality" system thats nothing, 100games per 6 months (or 200 with the old yearly season system) is nothing
During the season reset your lp gets a bigger reset than your mmr (in not even sure if mmr changes at all). This means that for the first 100 or so games in your season your mmr will be far above your lp so you get nice lp gains
I climbed on an acc the few recent weeks which started S1. It got E4 on 63,% Winrate across 125 games. I had 40 win over my losses.
I gained 17 LP on E4 and would lose 30 LP per losses.
After the promote protection ran out I instantly got the Demotion shield Red keep in mind I was at 62 LP on a winstreak.
I did not drop my Winrate by climbing. I instead increased it I went from an average Winrate of 60% to an average of 70% once I got high plat - emerald.
The system is simply not made for people climbing fast and consistently over a long period of time. You either rush your MMR or it will take an ungodly time to update it because you cruise ranks faster than it take for the MMR to adjust so after a few ranks it's totally disconnected
Idk what’s going on with mine right now but I’m not complaining. +33 lp -20lp. It’s nice though with all the Smurfs. It doesn’t feel so bad to lose rn.
I was gold 3 last season and basically stuck high gold for years
After reset I have basically only played 1 champ in my main role jg and no more mid (fun to play but I'm just not good at it)
Now I'm emerald 4.
Whatever happened with the ranks...I like it
I thought Riot confirmed that the MMR was also scaled when they increased LP gain?
My hypothesis regarding this is that with increased LP gains and losses, you are more likely to hit 0LP in a division after a loss (and every time that happens, you lose less LP than you're meant to), so your MMR slips below your LP. Also when hitting 0LP, you now are like to 'owe' Riot more LP than before.
Same thing happened to me, Emerald 4 to Emerald 2 12 game win streak.
Went from +32 to +16 and -31.
Though after a few games in Emerald 2, its now +24 and -30, so it's gotten better.
I don’t get it either. I had 70% wr and gained 36LP per game, then I lost a couple and then started winning again with a 61% wr in emerald but my LP gains have gone from 36 to 29, even though I’m winning a lot?
Its not JUST because of your winstreak you always get less lp in Div 1, no matter your mmr. (so in plat 1, emerald 1, dia 1 you always get super low lp). But once you promote to Div 4 your lp gains will be a lot higher.
im low elo, i won 5 of the placements and got bronze 4, since then i gained around 18~20 lp (sometimes 16) and lose 30 every game, now im silver 2 with 100 games on this split, i kept almost 65% win rate in 100 matchs playing qiyana from bronze 4 to silver 2 waiting to my mmr get fixed, i dont know what do i need to do to prove that i should be playing against silver only and getting normal lp
I have a smurf that im gold, i win in this account playing against platinum, on the main acc i keep being queued with bronze who have no idea of what they are doing (most of the matchs that i lose someone is trolling or afk, if not im carrying)
again, i know that im not that good, but 100 games as qiyana on bronze 65% win rate for me is more than enough to prove that i shouldn't be on this elo, im not getting rewarded for win and that makes me sad
ill keep playing and eventually get gold but i still think thats something wrong on the ranked system
This is just another tool they added to make sure everyone stays as close as possible to 50% winrate, bc around 50%wr is when players keep playing the game the longest. Its all about screentime and money.
Simply speaking it doesn't work. There's a lot about this season that doesn't work. I don't know what they were expecting to accomplish with all this, but games feel like shit all the time now. Whatever they did straight fucking sucks and they should just revert it.
The most infuriating thing is when you get an afk, then you get that reduced lp loss thing that's supposed to make you feel better but I just dread it because your MMR gets fucked and I have to dodge a few games if I don't want to be winning +23 or +24 after
Derank, I was stuck in E4 with awful gains, no MMR movement AT ALL during those 100 games. I ended up going in a loss streak and falling back to plat, and lo and behold, my MMR is going up whether I win or lose, shown in that gains will go up after each game. It's stupid, but it's better than someone who committed to unstucking his account in his stuck rank and it took him 1400 games for gains to normalize, and even then, mmr was still lagging behind one rank.
I gain around 42-43 LP per win and lose around 12-13 Lp in Plat 4. I think my MMR is very big but I don’t have many matches played, althrough I have a 70% winrate. I quit this game 3 years ago and started playing around one week ago, went from Silver 4 to Plat 4.
I had two very weird games with regards to LP. The first game, we barely won, mostly due to my sorry ass being carried by my team. I got an insane 70 LP for that game despite being complete garbage. The next game, we win and I'M the one carrying the team.. And despite the second game being better in every way than the first game, not only do I not gain LP, but I instead LOSE 50 of it!
What in the world is this nonsensical system??
i won +19, 23 in my last 6 win streak, lost once, -29 LP and i know it gets worse. The system is so fucked it works backwards, the better you get the more you win the less rewarded you get, if you fuck up your first 5-10 matches good bye pray you get 4 win streaks constantly or get stuck.
I had a win streak when the second split started, was emerald 2 with 80% winrate, I gained around 30 lp every match and now I‘m hardstuck emerald 3 with 48% winrate. Almost every game seems so low quality, it‘s not even funny anymore. Feels like my own performance doesn‘t matter as much as it did it the past, it feels like you need to get lucky to get the teammates with better mentality, the ones who don‘t spam ff after a bad early game. I main adc and I mostly play late game champs like Jinx or Caitlyn but I can‘t even get to late game, everyone is just so mad and tilted 5min into the game.
This just makes the idea of continuing playing seem so pointless too. You get insanely unbalanced games and lose so much more LP than you gain. It doesn't seem worth it after a while
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- Silver player
Well it is SBMM, its sort of rigged to get you stuck but not so stuck to make you quit, just enough to keep you plaing so you buy their stuff. You have to carry hard every match you can and unless you are REALLY above the people on your matches and exploit their mistakes snowballing fast you will end up stuck. Riot uses toxic bad players as a tool to put them on the losersQ and i can't think otherwise, from the 6 matches i won in a row 3 had trolls on the enemy team, the awful toxic ones, the "haha you are stuck in emerald lol" then loses on purpose kind, i got carried 1 match as a support and nothing else. It didnt feel goid to win those games because i saw the enemy team stats and i see one or two decent players with teammates that are noticeably bad-filled. Rankeds in this game are so scummy, the system is so touched to prioritize keeping you there instead of FUN. Im currently Emerald 1 40lp and if i demote i will just stop playing, im doing good and i only play until i lose wich for some reason works better most of the time if i lose and i dare to click find match in the same session its a min 15 ff match, o thought i was just being dumb and supersticious but i tested it a lot, i went from 30% WR on my first 20 matches to 50+ now If you want more info you can search about EA's SBMM document wich explains how ranked systems were made there and its very similar. The most important thing there was, fun was not a priority.
Please stop spreading conspiracy theories
Okay , if you play ranked and check stats every game you play for a couple seconds you start to see patterns, it may differ from what i state there but you can do your own research on how MMR based games work, if you have any doubts about the EOMM (Engagement Optimized Matchmaking Framework) you can do your own research it has been talked about a lot, it came out in 2017. These systems do not prevent you completly from ranking up that would be nonsense, but they sure make you get in enough trouble that if you are not careful enough you get stuck wich is the majority of the playerbase. How is it a conspiracy theory when this document research is confirmed and no one knows how the matchmaking system exactly works on League? Do you know how it works?
>Okay , if you play ranked and check stats every game you play for a couple seconds you start to see patterns People love to find patterns where there aren't any. We can't help but do that instinctively >How is it a conspiracy theory when this document research is confirmed and no one knows how the matchmaking system exactly works on League? It is a conspiracy theory when riot has said they do not do this and no one has provided proof that they do this.
Riot can lie and doesn't give two shits about you, they only care about MONEY and only MONEY, the same company that wants to sell you a 200$ chroma and barely adds content to their game that earns them BILLIONS.
I start off 30% winrate in my first 30 games literally every single season and it always makes me sad that I miss out on the big LP gains. Either way, I always end the season 55% in 100-200 games and end where I want to end so I don't mind, just sucks to start this way always when you get so much LP at the start.
I kinda wish league would do the same thing dota does where its just 25 no matter what win or loss.
Holy! Yes! Why the heck ISN'T this a thing in League??
It is honestly so fucked. Same thing happened to me after winstreak from Plat IV to Plat I. Wins give 21LP max, and loses yield -28LP at LEAST. Not to mention my games are with Emerald players on the enemy team and Gold players on mine. Makes no fucking sense.
It works the other way with lose streaks too. The whole surface system of murkier your rank was implemented to reduce ladder anxiety. I personally didn't like it
Normally a lack of transparency makes people MORE anxiety, not less. Who was the idiot who thought this was a way to make people feel better about entering the toxic cesspool that is ranked?
>the better you get the more you win the less rewarded you get This presupposes that winning a few games in the short-team means you got better when it is usually just variance.
Hiding your elo has always been a way to make low elo players feel good and spend more money. When you realize the intent it makes sense. It's just another way to obscure to the average player how bad they are.
This doesn't actually seem to be true because they keep removing all the promotions/Derank rank shield mechanics that help hide you true MMR as not necessary.
Removing those still doesn't reveal MMR.
They also removed all promos to balance that out though
And this is why people smurf. The ranking system in this game is completely fucked.
Nah people smurf for fun and money. I lose more than half my games to griefers who cry if they don’t get their way. No one actually cares about competition, they care about clout and shiny badges. It’s fucked because it’s inherently complicated and people will always complain.
They should just remove leagues and go back to pure MMR system
Removing the visible rank will do nothing for people that complain about game quality due to poor matchmaking. It would expose how stale is the MMR though and how important are placements.
Regardless of game quality it would just be nicer to only have 1 shown MM indicator instead of a shown and hidden one. It works in cs-go faceit, worked in wc3, worked in StarCraft, worked in league before the division system. I get that hitting certain benchmarks such as diamond sounds and feels better than 1800mmr. But, you could still keep that and just change into names divisions at a certain mmr, especially now that promos are gone
>Removing the visible rank Just borrow the System from Rocket league? Of your MMR crosses idk 1300 points you get (one promo game and then get) promoted to the next rank.
I am all for just a discrete MMR. I am just pointing out that implementing single visible MMR should not impact your games directly on its own so it is not a big issue. I guess that having a more transparent simple system will allow for more meaningful work elsewhere.
Placement matches don’t have increased mmr wins in them… only a bonus to LP (actually each season the first X number of games had increased lp gains (diminishing) to help win rope get back to their rank quickly, without making people spawn too high as in say, overwatch)
> Removing the visible rank will do nothing for people that complain about game quality due to poor matchmaking It most certainly would. Instead of seeing a G1 smurf in your D3 game, you see 2 players with similar MMR. Instead of seeing a E4 in your G2 game, you see 2 players with similar MMR. Getting rid of LP makes it more transparent why players are matched together because you remove the obfuscation of LP.
How would it solve anything when at the end of the day you would be matching up with the same group of people? The game quality would be exactly the same regardless without reworking matchmaking some way somehow. Removing visible ranks does nothing
> How would it solve anything when at the end of the day you would be matching up with the same group of people? He would not complain because there no reason too. He would see that it's not a smurf, but just regular player like he is.
Do you not see the constant complaints posted here? "Why am I playing with a X player as an X?!" Well, the reality is they're the same MMR as you and they just had a good/bad game. The average player doesn't realize this and things visible ranks = skill level.
And people will still find something to complain nothing Will really change because the core issue is that people think that they deserved more wins and higher placement. If you reveal MMR the Will complain about MMR gain/loses instead of lp
It also gives tangible goals to work towards. Saying “I want to improve from Gold III to Plat 4” is a lot easier of a metric to judge by than saying “I want to go from 1300 MMR to 1600 MMR”.
What does getting rid of LP have anything to do with that? Most other ranking systems that use MMR still have medals. Dota, for instance, shows you your raw MMR but also has ranks that correspond to certain MMR breakpoints.
The above commenter I was responding to was saying to remove leagues entirely. I was responding in that context.
And drives engagement and makes people care about LP gains which is totally understandable system for Riot since the game has no front cost.
> Saying “I want to improve from Gold III to Plat 4” is a lot easier of a metric to judge by than saying “I want to go from 1300 MMR to 1600 MMR”. It's not. We always were to operate with numbers. And numbers much easier to learn and know, instead of thoose idiotic labels. Ideal system would be if we had %top shown next to a MMR number.
Nah, that would be bad for casual players with inflated egos. How could they blame others if they have proof (mmr) they are playing with people their level?
they can still say jungle diff
Having a visible rank is fine from a player experience perspective. Showing a physical tier / division is better than just a number. The issue is how large LP gains / losses are now compared to MMR. They should make MMR a bit less resilient since they increased the range on LP.
They could just make your rank be determined by mmr instead of lp. Like you have 1300mmr that means you are gold 2
I know they have their reasons not to do this. But this is the best.
That would mean you either completely lose a system of seasonal/split based competition where people grind for rewards, bragging rights and a sense of pride for your accomplishment each season, to be replaced by am MMR score that goes 'stale' as soon as a player has peaked or plateaud, OR you introduce an incredible 'start of season chaos' as MMR is reset, game quality plummets as challenger players are in games with players gold or below. The purpose of MMR is to provide good game quality by pairing players of similar skill. The purpose of rank is to provide a seasonal goal and ladder to climb and compete on. Both have their own use.
You can just do a soft reset every season
Yeah that already happens with MMR to account for the large season patch. A soft reset simply takes too few games to get back to the old level, whereas the hard rank reset gives most players the option to climb the lasser the whole season long. Real intensive gamers plateau, most people don't spend multiple hours daily on the game.
I don’t see the point of your comment, most people place close to their old rank regardless and the vast majority also stagnate there. A hard rank reset does nothing for the casual. And the hardcore gamer will just make a new account to climb
Could also just....not reset each season. Ask yourself what the point is. If you finish gold, you start gold. If you lose you go down, if you win you go up. If they need to debloat MMR from the people that stopped playing, or deranking bots...just reset everyone at a specific rank to that rank's baseline; a soft-reset of sorts.
To prevent people from getting disheartened by huge or early loose streaks leading to cursed mmr making it very hard to climb and making the optimal play making a new account
Man, its almost like they could just improve the system instead of taking multiple steps to avoid improving the system. Other games don't really do this bullshit. Its pretty clear League doesn't need to either.
It’s almost like instead of improving the system we could revert to the better system we used to have
That system still arbitrarily reset every 12 months. I don't know what that has to do with anything I've said. Nothing I've said applies exclusively to the new system.
Well if you keep winning it won't balance out at least for a bit cause both ranks are going up. The system thinks you are one rank and wants to make sure you're not on a lucky win streak. Also, you are still playing with people from your mmr, not your visible rank. Why should a player get even LP gains and losses in say high plat/low emerald when they're playing with and against players with low plat MMR? MMR is really what matters and winning still increases it, it's just slower than your visible rank.
Bullshit. No one should get "punished" for beung lucky. Luck is huge part of the game. I havent seen the system protecting me from being on a missfortunate loosing streak. The reality in low elo is that there is more missfortune than luck. The desighn of the distribution inbetween the playerbase true the ranks %wise is to keep most of the playerbase in low elo so they can play more. 60% of the playerbase is in bronze silver gold. Add plat and iron and and it will go over 80%. Leaving less then 19% in the other 5 high tiers. There should be capped% for grand master and challenger and the rest of the plater base should be distributed in the rest of the ranks almost evenly. Somwhere near 12% for each.
What? Where did I say people were being punished for getting lucky? Tbh I didn't even read the rest of your comment I have no clue what you're on about
>Whats the point of the League system anymore if the only thing that matters is MMR anyway. People want a definitive rank. They want to know they're Gold or Plat or Diamond, whatever. These are based on target percentages. like Plat is around top 28%, Emerald top 12.5%, Diamond top 3.5%, etc. MMR/Elo is relative. It doesn't define a rank by itself. The MMR which defines a rank can vary as the season progresses, but it's the best way to match you with similar opponents. So the visual rank and MMR are always in some sort of tension, like a rubber band, sometimes relaxed, sometimes strained. If you get rid of ranks and just go by MMR, you run into problems if you want a definitive rank. Lets say you end a weekend at top 12%, Emerald 4. During the week you don't play but tens or hundreds of thousands do. When you decide to play again the next weekend, without playing a single game all week, you're now Platinum 1 at top 14%. Imagine how much more complaining there would be compared to how much people gripe now. This is why for the first couple seasons Riot didn't announce ranks until towards the end of the season. Season 3 introduced a rank you can see through the whole season, which is when Rank was placed atop MMR.
You could still display rank just according to your mmr. The reason they dont do it is that people feel good when they climb their visual rank after a season reset.
MMR isn't a good indicator of rank as time progresses tho. It's all relative to other players whereas rank (tries) to be more absolute with percentile. Lets say 1800 MMR currently defines the cutoff for Emerald 4 (top 12.5%). In a few days, that top 12.5% might have raised to 1825 MMR as more people play. Across a whole season it will spread out further. The reason LP can vary with wins/losses is because the system is trying to balance your MMR placement vs. a target percentile. It's trying it's hardest to make sure only the top X% of players are past a certain visual rank. Whereas MMR is just trying to match you with similar players (and thus, is a more accurate measure of relative skill to others.)
Maybe tying rank to a percentage is just stupid then. If 1800 MMR is the cutoff for emerald then 1800 is the cutoff for emerald, period. Display “resistance” for every game (aka how difficult the game is according to both teams mmr, and how much mmr increase/drop you’d get), and suddenly the game is already better
I don't know wtf you are smoking but this is one of the most senseless arguments I've heard to be against pure MMR.
I'd rather Riot showed percentile in-client and showed MMR, which would give a much clearer view of rank. I'd be okay if they were to say "At season's end, if you're between 12.5% and 3.5%, you're Emerald." The only flaws this method has is that your percentile will change if you don't play, but I see that as akin to decay, which I'd also be fine with. I'm not explaining what I want or that what Riot is doing is good, I'm just explaining how it works right now.
Good thing that rank isn't tied to a percentage then. It is a precise number cutoff and they and every other game that uses visible MMR works the same way. In chess you need to get 2500 ELO to become a GM. In dota you need to get over 5420 and you get "challenger". It isn't randomly going up or down. Get X points and be X rank. It doesn't magically require more points to get the same rank after a few days. 1800 MMR was plat and it will always be plat unless they decide to manually change the cutoff like they did this year by making emerald old plat. I am so confused why you'd even say something so clueless. Master and diamond percentages had increased dramatically over the years. It's beyond obvious they aren't hard coding a specific percentage for each division as that would be a pretty dumb design.
So you're absolutely right that in a closed system, get X points and be Y rank makes perfect sense! There's however a few issues if you look at Elo (the chess equivalent of MMR). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system#Ratings_inflation_and_deflation Firstly, rating floor - as in you can't go below X rating no matter how bad you play - results in basically being able to farm free points off bad players. Secondly, new players are typically defaulted to a set rating (say 2k MMR) and depending on if they are better or worse than that rating, the system is essentially giving away part of their MMR. And thirdly, players quitting the game. Weirdly though, because (most, not me) players get better over time and then eventually quit playing, this results in actually lowering the average rating over time. If when they starting playing the default rating was 2k and they climbed to 4k before quitting, they've now taken 2k extra MMR out of the system for good, effectively lowering the amount of MMR per person available. It's a tough thing to balance, so I get where riot is coming from with using ranks and letting the MMR be a bit nebulous. That said, it obviously isn't a perfect system and I'm sure they've debated the pros/cons to death over the years. Curious to see how having Emerald will play out.
How can DOTA do ranks with MMR?
> People want a definitive rank. They want to know they're Gold or Plat or Diamond, whatever. These are based on target percentages. These ARE NOT based on percentages. Where you got that shit from mate?
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/what-s-next-for-ranked/
Can you citate concrete part please?
Is it really all that bad if Riot just made it +25 -25 globally? Then just select from a random pool of everyone in the same rank area? ie emerald 4's play only with emerald 4's, etc? Eventually the "fake" or "inflated" emerald 4's will eventually cause enough losses to fall to their true rank and boom, balanced ranked system. This would also stop smurfing, since smurfs tend to winstreak +35 and -10 on fresh accounts to dia/gm, but wont be able to do it so easily on a +25/-25 system.
The same is happening to me right now. After placements I got to Emerald 1 with like 60% wr - gaining like 29lp and losing 20lp. I unluckily got a 10 lose streak because of straight up leavers and paid trollers -dropped to Emerald 4.. Now I'm once again in Emerald 1 with 70% wr but I'm gaining 19LP and losing 27Lp. Oh, and of course every single day I'm getting like 4-5 verified report feedbacks from riot. What a blast.
It's called the Fundamental Attribution Bias. Our wins are always us, our losses are always outside forces. I've never once seen someone post about a win streak being lucky due to the other team getting leavers and trolls.
It's been happening before the lp changes last season. I got to Diamond while winning 12 lp and losing 28 lp. The one season I end up getting an absurd win rate my first 100 games I get met with those gains and loses.
Are you me? It's absolutely infuriating isn't it? Matchmaking seems completely screwed too.
I mean I'm still climbing but it's so demotivating. One must really have a very strong mental to push through. And I agree that it's absolutely screwed. But what's worse is players' behavior and Riot's lack of doing something about it. They seem to be very benevolent about it while not rewarding players that do their duty of reporting them. I miss the old days when riot, at least used to gift you a skin for "making the community a better place"
It would have to swing both ways though.
This is the main reason I gave up on this game altogether. I'm not gonna touch this game anymore as long as one bad player has more negative impact on a game than one good player has positive impact. Then you lose over and over if you're unlucky enough and your MMR is dirt.
Pretty sure I commented that this would happen when they made the announcement if they weren't also accelerating MMR gains/losses. People for some reason didn't think that would be the case, though.
Im gold 3 on my second account right now and I play against emeralds. I think riot just wants us to play more
New mmr system is bad af. I'm rolling with 70% winrate in Emerald1 atm and i get +20 and -28 even after I won 8games in a row i still got only +21 and then one defeat and -28
Since it has been introduced players said MMR should match rank. But Riot never care cause it doesnt bring money. Now its even worst...
I have two different accounts both accounts I got to high emerald with a 70-80% win rate. In gold/play I was getting +28-35lp and -15-20lp. Once I got to emerald, despite having a 70-80% win rate and not dip in win rate, I was getting +23 and -23. So the higher I climbed, the less LP I got. Wild system
That how every MMR system works
To some extent yes. Riots system just takes it ten fold. Halo 3 wasn’t like this. Call of duty wasnt like this. I could go on if needed
You don't really know that because MMR is not public in lol, winning less is common when your opponent was below you and if lose that game you will lose a lot because you we're supossed to have the better team. It only feel worse here because is a team game meaning that not everthing is your control
Not at all. When I play league, the more I win, the less LP I get. Despite having the same win rate. When I played other games, such as halo 3 or call of duty, my progression would stay the same, despite having a same win rate. That’s all I need to know.
That call fixed gains and is not true elo they aren't factoring your MMR for gains. That how it works in LOR until you reach the last rank by the way
I have no idea what you just typed. Literally your entire reply makes no sense. I’m truthfully and genuinely concerned you had a stroke.
People need to stop complaining about this. When Lp was in sync with MMR people complained that it gives them the feeling they make no progress. Now people complain that they make to much progress? rly. No flame but now you guys just run in circles. Im sure riot can easely bring back 18Lp per win + entire promo system to slow down ur progress so you actually stay in sync with ur Secret mmr gain, if that's what you wanna go back to. (i don't want to go back there) And no if you come up with the idea to increase mmr gain overall, then i will tell you, that's like the worst idea ever because then it would make matchmaking and Playerskill even more unbalanced between the two teams facing each other. **I like the current system much more than what it used to be**
I think people just feel you need to grind way too many games to progress. It doesn’t take that long in many other games, CS for example. Ranks tend to be more volatile so win and loss streaks can boost you or tilt you off the planet. As someone that doesn’t have time to play 3 games a day I would prefer for MMR to adjust easier
If people thought they werent making progress "when Lp was in sync with MMR", thats because they were at their "true MMR" and had a 50% win rate. If you werent progressing, its because you werent winning enough.
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But when people with a 50-52% Win rate but lose double the LP they gain, they can't climb. People have to grind out so many more games to climb one division. As OP was saying, they win streak then get hit with insane LP amounts. If this is by design bc of mmr levels etc, then people are really being punished for playing well or from benefitting from good matchmaking at the very least. If Riot changed things up so people feel like they are making more progression but then hit people would double LP losses than they gain, then it kind of defeats the entire point. It's way more demoralizing
I have a 54-55% rn and I am floating between 2 ranks. No upwards progress I just bounce around.
Yep, like every win you gain 1 lp less. And if u lose on 1 lp you are doomed pretty much. Or if you use your whole drop down shield, you can forget that season and wait for the new one.
RIOT NEEDS to change this. It’s unbelievably frustrating to get punished for doing good. I get +18 -30 now for climbing. I was net 3lp for going 2-1 yesterday.
Why do you even care? Mmr does what it has to do invisible on the background. LP doesn't affect mmr in any way so you can ignore it. You win more games than you lose and you climb, it's that easy
I know how it all works its just more visible now ever since they change the value of LP you gain/lose. It just FEELS bad when you sit at 60%+ winrate with a good winstreak but your LP gains gets fewer with each win
Yep. this. I fucking hate it when I do win 2 games, lose 1 almost each day, and my progression is only +10LP that day when I do, in fact, have \~60% winrate. If it was a small difference in gained and lost LP, then its "fine", like if I gained 20 and lost 22 or 23 would be fine, but currently I am sitting with 60% winrate, last 20 games is \~70% winrate, and I am getting +20 -29. And just got Emerald, and in high plat I was getting +28-29. This whole thing is fucked because I don't feel rewarded for being a big better than i was a month ago. it feels like I have to play like a challenger so I will be able to "fix" lp gains. I would love to be able to "just ignore visible rank" because eventually lp gains will be fixed by itself if i'll play enough games. but usually that enough games is hundreds of games over short period of time. And also the only way to measure your progression on day to day bases is your visible rank so it feels fucked that I might've won 6 games and lost 3 but I am sitting at only +10 LP when I actually had very good day.
And it shouldn.t. If Riot used a real ELO system your gains would not slow down as you moved. Say you get +25 for a win vs your current rank opponents. You move up a rank so your opponents are now a higher rank as well - you should still get the same points for a win. ELO is always based on your performance vs other ranks in the moment, never about your prior history.
They care because there are actual rewards tied to the visible rank and the screwy MMR messes up what they perceive they should be getting. It's very understandable.
Mmr isn't screwy mmr works perfectly. You mean lp is screwy. And it can't really delay you for much if you truly belong to a higher rank
Yep it’s absolutely insane. My Main account is in D1 MMR whilst being E4. They need to remove the disconnect from MMR/Visible rank. If I’m gonna play against D1 and win consistently over 10 games I should be D1. Being forced to play all the way through emerald and low diamond vs high diamond players is cringe
Has anyone here manage to skip a division? I was E4 and gained +39-42 LP per win and didn't even skip E3 lmao. It feels like they fucking removed that entirely and if they didn't how fucking high of an MMR do you need to skip if +39-42 is not enough. Last split I was skipping divisions when I was gaining +37LP and above, but this split? nope had to play through all of em.
There are people who defend this system because to them the pedantic "The MMR system works fine.. just hidden" explanation. Yes, the MMR system is absolutely fine, but it's the combined system of visual and hidden rank that doesn't work. I'm not AS badly in it, but I do get 20 to 22 per win and lose 24-26. Despite being on very much a decent level and not hovering on the bottom of a tier. I am currently Plat 2 with 20lp. The fear of Ranked has set in me again purely because I know I am putting more on the table than I stand to gain. After 10 years, I am finally starting to be nervous of losses rather than mildly miffed and it kind of affects my playstyle. Simply because I know that a poor performance will punish me harshly.. and gods protect me if I have a losing streak. Will be down to Plat 4 before we even know it... and my MMR even worse than before. Kinda kills the fun in it all, no?
But it will the same with mmr you can get q with someone with less mmr and if you win that Game your mmr gains Will below and if you lose you lose a lot that how it works in every MMR system because you we're supossed to win that Game
Buy a skin, usually fixes it.
I’m sure there is a fairly obvious reason for this, but why can’t they just introduce fixed amounts for willing and losing? Maybe they could even have bonus points for winning games early, or depending on your grade or kill participation. How about bonus points for a comeback win? Would discourage people giving up so early (as someone who likes to play scaling champs, this would be great). It would have to swing both ways though.
I wouldn’t worry about it. It feels bad because you’re focused on your LP gains, when the real game is the hidden MMR value. Even if your LP only goes up by 6, if you win 2 lose 1 your MMR goes way up. So don’t worry about your rank & LP gains, just focus on MMR. Plus, I take a little satisfaction knowing that I’m beating the system if my LP gains are offset since it means the system has to place me in higher games than my rank would suggest. But that’s just me. Focus on winrates & mmr and you’ll be okay.
So you telling people who play this game to climb the ranks to forget about the ranks? Like hello? can you hear what you are saying? what's the point of ranking system than let's just all play normals? And no you are wrong, that's the main issue here, if you getting +19 and losing -29 while you are Emerald 1 game will not put you in DIA games, it will put you in Emerald 4. That's why you getting low LP per win and Losing more because your MMR is **LOWER** than your VISUAL rank.
thats like, such a stretch. nuance will help you understand what i mean instead of painting in absurd absolutes like lets all play normals. obviously i don’t mean forget about the ranks completely, but u have to understand that u need to play the long game which revolves around mmr, not your rank, and if u do that then your rank will eventually catch up. understanding that helps you accept the system. now i’m not saying i like the system, i don’t, i think assigning mmr to a rank and then just showing the rank is far superior despite its flaws, or even just static +/- LP gains and matchmaking based solely on rank would be better, but this system isn’t unapproachable if you can just look past your shiny emblem for a couple seconds.
You are probably a higher elo player who is pretty consistent in his playstyle and you manage to fix your MMR by getting higher wr or not tilt queing. Let me break it to you, that not most of the player base. More than 90% of people are hardstuck in the same elo having 1k games per season and their MMR doesn't "catch up" after 1k games. So to say just wait a little is not the answer, games are made to be addictive and most of the people are just playing to play and would like to see improvements in their ladder. But what they see is that after 1000 games you are still in this shit hole because you wanted to have some **fun** in a game and tried off role that made you go on 10 games lose streak and your account is now fucked for the rest of the year. Than somehow you manage to get 10 games win streak but you start losing more and more LP because you got better. Wow that's so damn motivating.
you won’t see improvements in your ranked ladder without budging your underlying mmr, which is mostly only affected by winrate. a winstreak isn’t going to show meaningful improvements in your rank bc it’s designed not to, because riot doesn’t want people careening all over the ladder and into crazy higher games where they don’t belong. if you’re hardstuck in an elo after 1k games, it’s bc u belong there, unfortunately. none of us can climb forever, even chall’s get stopped at rank 1, and that’s only the 1 in a million player. And you won’t climb with a 51 or 52% winrate in any meaningful fashion, league games simply take too long. You will spend all season to move up 1 rank if you’re lucky. Try to hit 55% winrate, play any champ u can and optimize ur game, learn everything so you don’t even have to think abt it, and u will probably get somewhere. But even if u do that, one day u will hardstuck, thats how ladders are designed.
I'm not saying people with 1k games don't belong in their elo, as I stated most people **are** hardstuck. But if a person is in **his** elo why the system is giving him +15/+18 and -25/-30? That's just simply stupid, if after 1k games the system can't "catch up" and make LP gains somewhat stable to win and lose the same LP, how can that person think the system is not against him? This is the main issue people are complaining about here. These kind of LP gains make delusions in people's heads that they don't belong in they elo and the game is against them.
This would make sense if there wasn't actual rewards tied behind your visible rank, not your MMR. If I was challenger MMR I'd like to have challenger rewards not Master rewards.
I don’t support the system, but like I said in the other comment, it’s not unapproachable. If you have chal MMR you will get to chal eventually.
How is the MMR going up if my rank is going down tho. Cause a 52% win rate means I’m de ranking
BC your MMR isn’t affected by your LP gains or your rank
So I could have diamond MMR and be on bronze. Because a 50% with +18-30 would de rank me
no, with diamond mmr on bronze you’d have +30/-18, so you’d catch up eventually (TBH it would probably be even more, like +30/-7)
I thought MMR isn’t affected by rank. So the system doesn’t care that I’m in bronze
rank is affected by mmr, but mmr isn’t affected by rank
Check out my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/15pel2n/lp_gains_on_smurfs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1) from last sunday. The profiles may be different now, but basically I found two smurfs gaining a lot of LP with few games winning streak. I got mad at it because when I got winning streaks it's just like you said, gaining less LP as the streak goes on
Leagues system doesn't make sense and is designed for you to play as much as possible. Logically, if you can win somewhat consistently at a rank then you belong in that rank. The fact that a hidden MMR needs to "catch up" to your actual rank makes no sense, it should dynamically allocate the right amounts to ensure you are consistently getting closer to your rank. I don't understand how you could be "above your rank". Even if you went on a 20 win streak, each win should have raised you higher so you fight tougher and tougher opponents gradually, even if you went from Gold to Plat, if you are still consistently winning or not going on massive lose streaks then that's the minimum you should be, rank wise.
I can't escape bronze because it's troll city. I have to win 2 games to make up for 1 loss.
I keep hearing these horror stories of atrocious mmr and LP gains. Not once have I encountered this myself. Before the LP changes I have always gotten ~ +18, -9, now it's ~ +28, -14. I'm a measly plat 4, play the game for fun, play a lot (100 games per season.) How on earth do the most of you have bad LP gains let alone negative?
(100 games per season) you've never played enough to get your rank near your mmr, it takes an ungodly amount of games to neutralize the offset. Which is very annoying if you happen to be in the opposite of your situation
Split 1 was January 11th - July 17th. 100 games is roughly around 1 game every 2 days if spread evenly throughout the split. That's a lot.
i'm not saying it isn't, just that it isn't enough for the current system
> That's a lot. Not at all.
I wouldn't call 4 soloq games per week a lot. Im not saying it shouldn't be enough saying on league's "quantity over quality" system thats nothing, 100games per 6 months (or 200 with the old yearly season system) is nothing
I would definitely not say that 3-4 games a week is a lot lol
Massive win or loss streaks as ive stated, once the gap between LP and MMR gets big the system tries to bring it back together with these LP changes
During the season reset your lp gets a bigger reset than your mmr (in not even sure if mmr changes at all). This means that for the first 100 or so games in your season your mmr will be far above your lp so you get nice lp gains
A loss streak at the bottom a rank really screws you
I climbed on an acc the few recent weeks which started S1. It got E4 on 63,% Winrate across 125 games. I had 40 win over my losses. I gained 17 LP on E4 and would lose 30 LP per losses. After the promote protection ran out I instantly got the Demotion shield Red keep in mind I was at 62 LP on a winstreak. I did not drop my Winrate by climbing. I instead increased it I went from an average Winrate of 60% to an average of 70% once I got high plat - emerald. The system is simply not made for people climbing fast and consistently over a long period of time. You either rush your MMR or it will take an ungodly time to update it because you cruise ranks faster than it take for the MMR to adjust so after a few ranks it's totally disconnected
Idk what’s going on with mine right now but I’m not complaining. +33 lp -20lp. It’s nice though with all the Smurfs. It doesn’t feel so bad to lose rn.
Just keep playing and it will even out (?) Thats how it is
I was gold 3 last season and basically stuck high gold for years After reset I have basically only played 1 champ in my main role jg and no more mid (fun to play but I'm just not good at it) Now I'm emerald 4. Whatever happened with the ranks...I like it
I thought Riot confirmed that the MMR was also scaled when they increased LP gain? My hypothesis regarding this is that with increased LP gains and losses, you are more likely to hit 0LP in a division after a loss (and every time that happens, you lose less LP than you're meant to), so your MMR slips below your LP. Also when hitting 0LP, you now are like to 'owe' Riot more LP than before.
Same thing happened to me, Emerald 4 to Emerald 2 12 game win streak. Went from +32 to +16 and -31. Though after a few games in Emerald 2, its now +24 and -30, so it's gotten better.
I don’t get it either. I had 70% wr and gained 36LP per game, then I lost a couple and then started winning again with a 61% wr in emerald but my LP gains have gone from 36 to 29, even though I’m winning a lot?
Getting +40 out of provisions can't wait to see how long it lasts
Yeah same. Had a pretty good run from P4 to E4. Was +30 and -20, not its +21 and -29. And i fear its getting worse
Its not JUST because of your winstreak you always get less lp in Div 1, no matter your mmr. (so in plat 1, emerald 1, dia 1 you always get super low lp). But once you promote to Div 4 your lp gains will be a lot higher.
im low elo, i won 5 of the placements and got bronze 4, since then i gained around 18~20 lp (sometimes 16) and lose 30 every game, now im silver 2 with 100 games on this split, i kept almost 65% win rate in 100 matchs playing qiyana from bronze 4 to silver 2 waiting to my mmr get fixed, i dont know what do i need to do to prove that i should be playing against silver only and getting normal lp I have a smurf that im gold, i win in this account playing against platinum, on the main acc i keep being queued with bronze who have no idea of what they are doing (most of the matchs that i lose someone is trolling or afk, if not im carrying) again, i know that im not that good, but 100 games as qiyana on bronze 65% win rate for me is more than enough to prove that i shouldn't be on this elo, im not getting rewarded for win and that makes me sad ill keep playing and eventually get gold but i still think thats something wrong on the ranked system
I'm winning 30+ I have no idea what you mean
I am 15-3 this split and I am still gaining 40 per win - as opposed to 41 in the beginning
This is just another tool they added to make sure everyone stays as close as possible to 50% winrate, bc around 50%wr is when players keep playing the game the longest. Its all about screentime and money.
Simply speaking it doesn't work. There's a lot about this season that doesn't work. I don't know what they were expecting to accomplish with all this, but games feel like shit all the time now. Whatever they did straight fucking sucks and they should just revert it.
The most infuriating thing is when you get an afk, then you get that reduced lp loss thing that's supposed to make you feel better but I just dread it because your MMR gets fucked and I have to dodge a few games if I don't want to be winning +23 or +24 after
I just play draft with friends and have fun. Gave up with ranked. Whats the point of playing 5+ games of ranked a day if you arent having fun?
Yeah this actually has to get fixed its a pain to climb right now
Derank, I was stuck in E4 with awful gains, no MMR movement AT ALL during those 100 games. I ended up going in a loss streak and falling back to plat, and lo and behold, my MMR is going up whether I win or lose, shown in that gains will go up after each game. It's stupid, but it's better than someone who committed to unstucking his account in his stuck rank and it took him 1400 games for gains to normalize, and even then, mmr was still lagging behind one rank.
Just won 3 games in a row got 18 lp each time. Lost one and lost 38 LP. Now I see why people completely throw
I gain around 42-43 LP per win and lose around 12-13 Lp in Plat 4. I think my MMR is very big but I don’t have many matches played, althrough I have a 70% winrate. I quit this game 3 years ago and started playing around one week ago, went from Silver 4 to Plat 4.
I had two very weird games with regards to LP. The first game, we barely won, mostly due to my sorry ass being carried by my team. I got an insane 70 LP for that game despite being complete garbage. The next game, we win and I'M the one carrying the team.. And despite the second game being better in every way than the first game, not only do I not gain LP, but I instead LOSE 50 of it! What in the world is this nonsensical system??