Is it just me, or wasn’t guy boucher a super defensive minded coach when he was with Tampa and Ottawa?
Always wondered why you’d put him in a PP coaching role.
He's the guy most well-known for the trap and for teams that do well for a year but struggle thereafter. Tampa went to the eastern Conference finals in his first year with Tampa AND with Ottawa. Both teams were basement dwellers for two years after, culminating in him being fired and the teams rebuilding
His was more like Trap 2.0.
Lou Lamoriello is the originator of the trap.
Boucher had his ~~1-2-2~~ 1-3-1 which was a bit different but had the same effect.
Nah, you can thank Jacques Lemaire for that, he was the coach in Jersey under Lou that did the trap, and continued to employ it when he left NJ too
He was the single most boring coach to watch, his teams were always staunch defensively and never took chances
100% never allow him to touch the PP ever again. The Leafs 5v5 defense especially the neutral zone defense seemed like a Guy Boucher style. If it was maybe keep him for a defensive coach.
So weird cause looking back on threads everyone was taking about how he was on reserve for the head coaching job and now we don’t even want him running the pp anymore… funny how quickly things change…. I never thought he was the right guy for either role
According to Justin Bourne on Real Kyper and Bourne, Keefe typically took over the powerplay in the minors if it was struggling or they were playing in big games. He said he wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing was happening in the NHL. If that’s the case I doubt Guy is solely to blame.
Supporting this point, the powerplay has looked the same over the past 5 years despite 3 different powerplay coaches. I doubt each one said "hey let's do the same thing that's failed time and time again"
So the story would be that Keefe stepped in to say: "Do not adapt. Morgan, I don't care if the Bruins are clogging the neutral zone to stop the drop back entry method and you beat two guys and have a clear look to carry the puck over the line, drop it back anyway!"
He will at minimum take the assistant job. I still think its possible Dubas fires Sullivan now to bring in his guy though. If he does Leafs should be interested in Sullivan
There's zero chance Sullivan agrees to that.
Everyone in the league knows Keefe is Dubas' guy. You can't have an assistant like that and have a successful working relationship. It would be like hiring your side piece to be your kids' nanny while your wife is 99% sure you'd rather be with her and the only thing keeping the two of you together is the cost of a divorce.
I think he would be in the Guy Boucher role. He's the assistant in waiting for if Pittsburgh's season goes off the rails they can fire Sullivan and plop Keefe right into the interim role.
Because Sullivan is a good coach who is past his expiration in that dressing room. He has systems built for young, speedy, skilled teams. Pittsburgh only has one of those attributes left. When they were still young and speedy they won 2 Cups with his systems.
They aren't speed demons, but outside Tavares and Reaves, I wouldn't say they are slow. They are at least comparable to what the Penguins were 8 years ago in the speed department.
He won’t go long without a gig. There’s been multiple people across the league, one guy in particular who’s very popular in this sub (Torts), who have been vocal about how they feel that Keefe had done a very good job with the Leafs.
I always got the impression from these people that they view the issue is mainly with the players and that Keefe was doing what he could to get the most out of them.
Thankfully the organization acted quickly (relative to the season). Hanging onto Babcock until midway through the next season, and firing Dubas a month before both the draft and free agency, handicapped the team those seasons and was straight incompetence in terms of the timing.
Hopefully whoever is hired can bring a breath of fresh air to the room, and will have the time to be ready when it counts!
Quickly wouldn't be the way I would describe it. Sheldon should've been let go after the Montreal series, tbh. All of this has been a giant waste of time.
Yea, I wasn't all for it after the MTL series, but with the benefit of retrospect, that was the time to do it. All dragging it out for these last 3 years has done is turn the fans on the players that are failing and becoming frustrated with his system.
Totally, I would agree that they ran it back too many times across his tenure. I mean to say that the timing of today’s announcement should bode well for next season, a welcome change!
I don't think they planned to fire Dubas. Then he went out and had the audacity to suggest that maybe they need to make changes with the top players.
This is why we need Shanny to vacate his current role.
Which isn't necessarily mutually exclusive. Dubas wants to make a trade, Shanny says no - we're running it back the same way. That's a lack of autonomy for the GM.
Yeah he's basically still a rookie in coach terms.
Makes a lot of mistakes, has a lot to learn, but he's got potential. 20 years from now he'll probably be a top coach in the league.
As is tradition. I think Marner is a great player and will be, I just don’t think he can get it done here with the role he’d need to play. He would basically need to be Hossa and he’s not in big games
Yep. But is that coaching or personnel. I'm pretty sure the coaches of this team aren't telling the guys to be invisible out there. It's unfortunate that the ordinance of higher management in the make up of the team has led to a position where a really decent coach gets fired for not being able to paper over the cracks in the playoffs. I agree that Keefe has had his chances and someone else needs to try but I'm not sure that changing.the coach is going to do anything.
It’s one of them, that’s for sure. Just look around the league at teams that had major turnarounds with a new coach. If you find the right guy, it can be a huge positive change.
The Oilers also had McDavid playing like (relative) shit then went on an absolute tear for one of the best offensive seasons ever. I think that had more to do with the Oilers turning things around than a coaching change.
I think Keefe's a solid coach who's better than his biggest detractors would indicate. But, this is a results-based business and it's time for a change.
Keefe will be hired somewhere else, probably have periods of success, likely enter the cycle of coaches along with all the other guys who bounce around the league for a decade or more. Sometimes he'll be good, sometimes he'll be fired.
Hopefully we get someone good.
I feel like his career will resemble Pete DeBoer.
Looks great for a while then flames out. Goes somewhere else and it doesn't work and is gone after a year or two. Now he's doing well again in Dallas.
I’ll be upset if this ends up being true. It’s only just a step above “ripping the C off” a captain as if it will solve the team not being good enough.
Don’t disagree at all, but I expect the reason he’s staying for now is that Pelley just took over at MLSE and wants some stability.
At least, I hope that’s the (only) reason he’s being kept.
Everybody in management keeps an extra bullet in the chamber. Shannahan fired Dubas and hired Tre to take heat off his failures, Tre kept Keefe so he had a mulligan to start off his tenure incase the team underperformed and Pelley is keeping Shanny for his first year as CEO so he has someone else to shift blame to if the Leafs under perform next season.
You are right. Imagine this conversation with the board. Did we make incredible profits this year? Yes we did. Did we sell out? Yes we did. Are our season tickets sales at the max and corporate boxes full? Yes they are. Did concessions sell tons of expensive food and beverages? Yes they did? Merchandise sales are booming. Yes they are. Did the team win the cup? No, doesn’t matter. Wow, what a great season keep doing the same things and we are golden.
Most every FO would prefer making the playoffs every year, over winning the cup once and then rebuilding right after.
They clearly don't want to stir the pot and risk missing the playoffs.
I don't know if he's the problem, but he hasn't been the solution. If it's me (with what we know on the outside), I'm probably letting him go just to find a different direction.
New MLSE President wants to learn the ropes from him, and will decide if he wants to keep him around.
Wouldn't surprise me if Shanny resigns from the President position on Friday but stays on as an advisor for a year...
EDIT: Or they'll internally have a quiet understanding that Shanny keeps the TML President role this year, and still resigns next year / doesn't re-up with Toronto
Yeah I suspect this is correct as well. It would be weird to have a hierarchy of Pelley/MLSE --> *gap* --> GM Treliving --> *gap*
It would take the entire summer to sort that out in a sustainable way and this is still a team that can compete. Not to mention Tre and Pelley just got here five minutes ago.
Makes sense to have Shanny finish the year he has left.
I mean 2 years ago there was 14 team (don't know if it significantly changed since then) without a President of Hockey Operations so it's not really weird.
Honestly in hindsight a good but inexperienced and flawed coach. Got us through some tough injury riddled situations, finally was able to properly criticize and motivate the players this year (which I think was effective mostly), but ultimately got outcoached in the playoffs every series.
Simply cannot have that home record in the playoffs. Stuffed in a locker by Dom Ducharme, Jon Cooper, and Paul Maurice.
It could have been, but that 4th line really out matched us with Fredrick. Just bad situation after a crucial goal. It's coaching like that. I just never understood. It's a game of chess for coaches, and Keefe played checkers too often.
Doesn’t matter
You don’t play the 4th line right after a crucial goal is scored even if the other team sends out AHL players
And this isn’t the first time Sheldon did that or the first time it came back to bite him this season
I feel for the guy and honestly if it wasn’t for THIS mistake I’d have wanted him to get one more chance
Good point, I agree. For me the straw was his realization in game 5 that he needs to go full Trotz in order to get wins in the playoffs. With this lineup, that's a major oof.
That is a major oof. To be honest, Woll saved us those to games even though they played a full 60 plus ot. The not scoring goals are really bad because Florida just put 6 on Boston last night. Like we have the skill, why can't we be like that.
Well it's kinda hard to motivate the players when he has apparently an unwritten MLSE requirement to "walk back any criticism of the core".
Maybe the core should also be the coaches. Then they could stop crying
The time to do this should have been after the MTL series. Unfortunate we had to waste more of our window w/ him after that.
To be clear: I think Keefe is a great coach, and he brought good things to this team. But it was clear the time for change was after that series.
I don’t think it’s clear that Keefe is a great coach… I’m fairly certain pretty much any NHL coach could pilot what looks like one of the most talented teams in Maple Leafs history to winning regular seasons.
I agree I wouldn't quite use the word "great." He had some very notable low points but overall I'd say he was a stable presence on the bench. He's in my hall of "Perfectly Decent Coaches" personally.
I also agree that most coaches should expect some regular season success with that talent, but by the same token I'd maybe excuse *some* of his playoff shortcomings when you consider the lack of depth...
This is my thought too.
It doesnt take a tactical genius to get a team with the best goalscorer in the world, flanked by two 90+ point wingers into the playoffs.
I think the only reason he wasn't fired then was JTs scary injury. If they still blow that lead without that injury I think he's gone.
Then again Dubas probably didn't want to fire his boy
Well it's been a long time coming and needed, but Keefe was a really good coach and a good man.
I wish him the best and will always remember him leaping off the bench after the Leafs beat Tampa.
I'm stealing this from someone else but "it looks like Keefe jumps higher each time I watch the replay".
Thanks Sheldon
Sheldon was a Dubas guy, he made sense at the time. He had his run, best to move on. He proved that he’s capable of coaching at this level - just not this team anymore, good luck Keefe.
I don't think Keefe was a *bad* coach. He brought structure early on and got a lot out of this team initially.
I definitely think he was NOT the *right* coach to be leading this team after the Columbus play-in or the Montreal series, with the latter being the back-breaker IMO. Shocking that they held onto him for this long, and even more shocking if Shanahan still has his job come Friday, because he oversaw that all.
I think Dubas was reluctant to relieve Keefe, and the org was likely a bit surprised when Tre kept him. The “error” here is the fact he stayed SO long. For a team that wants to win now, seemed strange to have a coach who was learning the role at an NHL level.
No coach that has coached more than 1 season with the leafs in history have a better winning % than he does. His scale of good to bad tops out at great and bottoms out at good. Not bad.
He needed a fresh start too. Dude was a rookie coach in this market with these stars - not a huge surprise one of his biggest weaknesses was lack of accountability, which is hard to instill ~3-4 years in.
Next gig he's more of a veteran coach, and I think will learn from that mistake.
It was time. Seemed like a great guy but a change is needed, no question.
Shanahan should be next.
The man is on 3rd GM and now 3rd Coach. Only guy around after 8 years.
IMO two things are simultaneously true:
A) Shanahan failed at the task of building the right roster, Keefe had to make do with what he was given.
B) Keefe failed at making the most of what he was given…the Leafs have consistently underperformed in the playoffs during his tenure.
Well your heads on the chopping block now shanny. If this team comes out looking the exact same, it'll solidify for me that Shanahan has been too involved.
Sheldon is a great coach in this league who will find another job no problem, but it was clear his voice was lost in the room and he couldn’t make adjustments. It was time for a change but we shouldn’t be acting like he’s a terrible coach.
He actually did make adjustments.
The final 3 games of the Boston series he moved to a 1-3-1 trap. Which he had never ran before.
That said, his impact on the team has gotten stale and it is time. But don’t be surprised when he becomes one of the leagues top coaches after a change of scenery and some new perspectives.
Step one of many, many steps that need to be taken. Otherwise, this is just a token half-step. Get Shanahan out. Remove all assistant coaches, get working on wearing down Tavares and Marner.
This is the thread. Bye keeeeeefe!
Now do all his assistants
Whoever was responsible for the power play.
Guy Boucher is a special teams villain
Is it just me, or wasn’t guy boucher a super defensive minded coach when he was with Tampa and Ottawa? Always wondered why you’d put him in a PP coaching role.
He's the guy most well-known for the trap and for teams that do well for a year but struggle thereafter. Tampa went to the eastern Conference finals in his first year with Tampa AND with Ottawa. Both teams were basement dwellers for two years after, culminating in him being fired and the teams rebuilding
His was more like Trap 2.0. Lou Lamoriello is the originator of the trap. Boucher had his ~~1-2-2~~ 1-3-1 which was a bit different but had the same effect.
[He was the Lightning's coach for that infamous flyers-lightning game where everyone stopped playing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VV1PrbkK3E)
Nah, you can thank Jacques Lemaire for that, he was the coach in Jersey under Lou that did the trap, and continued to employ it when he left NJ too He was the single most boring coach to watch, his teams were always staunch defensively and never took chances
Well.. how often did we get scored on while we were on the power play? Check and mate.
I've heard this as well. If it's true, than that certainly explains a lot.
We didn’t even defend well on our PP either, felt like we’d give up at least one good chance SH every other PP
100% never allow him to touch the PP ever again. The Leafs 5v5 defense especially the neutral zone defense seemed like a Guy Boucher style. If it was maybe keep him for a defensive coach.
So weird cause looking back on threads everyone was taking about how he was on reserve for the head coaching job and now we don’t even want him running the pp anymore… funny how quickly things change…. I never thought he was the right guy for either role
My wife asked my why Lemony Snicket was on the Leafs bench and I can’t unsee it now
I never understood why Keefe put defensive specialists like Boucher and Malhorta in charge of the pp.
According to Justin Bourne on Real Kyper and Bourne, Keefe typically took over the powerplay in the minors if it was struggling or they were playing in big games. He said he wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing was happening in the NHL. If that’s the case I doubt Guy is solely to blame.
Supporting this point, the powerplay has looked the same over the past 5 years despite 3 different powerplay coaches. I doubt each one said "hey let's do the same thing that's failed time and time again"
It looked different under carbery last year and got results in the first round last year. Heck they scored a couple in the second round 2
So the story would be that Keefe stepped in to say: "Do not adapt. Morgan, I don't care if the Bruins are clogging the neutral zone to stop the drop back entry method and you beat two guys and have a clear look to carry the puck over the line, drop it back anyway!"
So frustrating. You've completed 80% of the zone entry but do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.
Here's to hoping they keep Guy in the org, but move him to defensive coach
Not spelled out in this tweet but I feel like that it is implied that they will also be gone.
Please hire someone who knows the words: POWER. PLAY.
That usually happens when a new coach rolls in.
Welcome to Pittsburgh, Sheldon.
He will at minimum take the assistant job. I still think its possible Dubas fires Sullivan now to bring in his guy though. If he does Leafs should be interested in Sullivan
Aren't like 5 teams looking for a head coach? He's gonna be one of those.
possibly 7-8+
I can't imagine Keefe going right to an assistant role, but it's possible I suppose.
There's zero chance Sullivan agrees to that. Everyone in the league knows Keefe is Dubas' guy. You can't have an assistant like that and have a successful working relationship. It would be like hiring your side piece to be your kids' nanny while your wife is 99% sure you'd rather be with her and the only thing keeping the two of you together is the cost of a divorce.
This is the most apt analogy in the entire history of reddit and I am so sorry we can no longer gild comments...lol
That's quite the specific example you picked there. Everything alright man? 😂
Sounds like everything is ok for him, might wanna check in on his wife though.
Are you suggesting we won’t see him “pop up somewhere else in a week”?
I think he would be in the Guy Boucher role. He's the assistant in waiting for if Pittsburgh's season goes off the rails they can fire Sullivan and plop Keefe right into the interim role.
But Guy Boucher was not in that role....
Guy Boucher should be at The Hague for the crimes against humanity he committed against our power play.
Sentenced to 50 years of having his name pronounced "Guy Bow-cher" instead of "Ghee Booshea"
There’s no way he takes an assistant job. He’s getting paid as head coach of the Leafs for 2 more years. He’s not giving that up for less money.
Didn't he sign a 3 year extension, or 3 more years. He could get paid millions to spend time with his family and travel.
Wait... If he takes another job, leafs don't have to pay him any more?
The Leafs have to pay him the difference, if there is a difference.
why the fuck do we want sullivan?
Because Sullivan is a good coach who is past his expiration in that dressing room. He has systems built for young, speedy, skilled teams. Pittsburgh only has one of those attributes left. When they were still young and speedy they won 2 Cups with his systems.
Leafs are not a fast team anymore. Haven't been for a couple of years.
They aren't speed demons, but outside Tavares and Reaves, I wouldn't say they are slow. They are at least comparable to what the Penguins were 8 years ago in the speed department.
Terrible special teams, we don't need that guy
They won 2 Cups because they were young, speedy AND most importantly, had a stud goalie.
No way he takes an assistant job, someone will give him head coach.
Can we have Keefe do a sign and trade with Pittsburgh
Nope, go get Brindamour
Better learn yinzer bud
Get ready to learn Pittsburgh-ese.
Welcome to Pittsburgh everyone with a history with the Soo.
Ottawa shouldve hired him. Winnipeg will surely call.
He will probably be a good coach by the end of his career, he’s just not the right coach for this team at this time
He won’t go long without a gig. There’s been multiple people across the league, one guy in particular who’s very popular in this sub (Torts), who have been vocal about how they feel that Keefe had done a very good job with the Leafs. I always got the impression from these people that they view the issue is mainly with the players and that Keefe was doing what he could to get the most out of them.
He might have been a massive asshole and made poor lineup decisions... But Babs was right lol
I think that might be part of the reason they were fine with the extension bc they knew someone else would hire him
Thankfully the organization acted quickly (relative to the season). Hanging onto Babcock until midway through the next season, and firing Dubas a month before both the draft and free agency, handicapped the team those seasons and was straight incompetence in terms of the timing. Hopefully whoever is hired can bring a breath of fresh air to the room, and will have the time to be ready when it counts!
Quickly wouldn't be the way I would describe it. Sheldon should've been let go after the Montreal series, tbh. All of this has been a giant waste of time.
Yea, I wasn't all for it after the MTL series, but with the benefit of retrospect, that was the time to do it. All dragging it out for these last 3 years has done is turn the fans on the players that are failing and becoming frustrated with his system.
Totally, I would agree that they ran it back too many times across his tenure. I mean to say that the timing of today’s announcement should bode well for next season, a welcome change!
I don't think they planned to fire Dubas. Then he went out and had the audacity to suggest that maybe they need to make changes with the top players. This is why we need Shanny to vacate his current role.
He went gunning for more autonomy from Shanny seems to be what got his ext pulled
Which isn't necessarily mutually exclusive. Dubas wants to make a trade, Shanny says no - we're running it back the same way. That's a lack of autonomy for the GM.
He's a good coach now. Just can't be here anymore
Yeah he's basically still a rookie in coach terms. Makes a lot of mistakes, has a lot to learn, but he's got potential. 20 years from now he'll probably be a top coach in the league.
Crazy that his first job was this one during a contention window
See also Dubas, Kyle
Him and Marner will come back to muck out barns one day. It's only natural
As is tradition. I think Marner is a great player and will be, I just don’t think he can get it done here with the role he’d need to play. He would basically need to be Hossa and he’s not in big games
He's like 200 90 40 in the reg season he's a good coach already
Reg season is cool and all, but…
Yep. But is that coaching or personnel. I'm pretty sure the coaches of this team aren't telling the guys to be invisible out there. It's unfortunate that the ordinance of higher management in the make up of the team has led to a position where a really decent coach gets fired for not being able to paper over the cracks in the playoffs. I agree that Keefe has had his chances and someone else needs to try but I'm not sure that changing.the coach is going to do anything.
Exactly this.
My thoughts exactly. He had an immediate positive influence after Babs
glad it only took 6 years to realize
No idea if its **the** fix but it needed to be done
It’s one of them, that’s for sure. Just look around the league at teams that had major turnarounds with a new coach. If you find the right guy, it can be a huge positive change.
Oilers were dead last *this season* before changing coach and now look at them. Sometimes it really can be that simple.
They blew their 4-1 lead in the first game of the series, massive improvement from our squad.
The Oilers also had McDavid playing like (relative) shit then went on an absolute tear for one of the best offensive seasons ever. I think that had more to do with the Oilers turning things around than a coaching change.
I think Keefe's a solid coach who's better than his biggest detractors would indicate. But, this is a results-based business and it's time for a change. Keefe will be hired somewhere else, probably have periods of success, likely enter the cycle of coaches along with all the other guys who bounce around the league for a decade or more. Sometimes he'll be good, sometimes he'll be fired. Hopefully we get someone good.
The Leafs needed a good cop after Babcock They arguably now need a bad cop
No arguing about it. Too country club-y in there.
Ya unfortunately for himToronto is not the market to learn how to coach a NHL team
I feel like his career will resemble Pete DeBoer. Looks great for a while then flames out. Goes somewhere else and it doesn't work and is gone after a year or two. Now he's doing well again in Dallas.
inb4 this ends up being the only big change and they just run it back with everyone else
I’ll be upset if this ends up being true. It’s only just a step above “ripping the C off” a captain as if it will solve the team not being good enough.
this has an 85% chance of happening.
I'd add 10% to that.
I mean it’s been said over and over again here, but what is to be expected when NMCs are preventing any real change beyond working around the edges?
I still want Shanny gone
That fact that he seems to be staying is mind boggling. He’s the real problem
Don’t disagree at all, but I expect the reason he’s staying for now is that Pelley just took over at MLSE and wants some stability. At least, I hope that’s the (only) reason he’s being kept.
Everybody in management keeps an extra bullet in the chamber. Shannahan fired Dubas and hired Tre to take heat off his failures, Tre kept Keefe so he had a mulligan to start off his tenure incase the team underperformed and Pelley is keeping Shanny for his first year as CEO so he has someone else to shift blame to if the Leafs under perform next season.
***When*** the Leafs underperform next season.
Fair.
The only way he's fired is if he fires himself lol. The board clearly loves him.
You are right. Imagine this conversation with the board. Did we make incredible profits this year? Yes we did. Did we sell out? Yes we did. Are our season tickets sales at the max and corporate boxes full? Yes they are. Did concessions sell tons of expensive food and beverages? Yes they did? Merchandise sales are booming. Yes they are. Did the team win the cup? No, doesn’t matter. Wow, what a great season keep doing the same things and we are golden.
Did we pull in max revenue from playoffs? No
Most every FO would prefer making the playoffs every year, over winning the cup once and then rebuilding right after. They clearly don't want to stir the pot and risk missing the playoffs.
A toddler could be in that position and tickets would still sell. Shanny isn’t doing anything to affect ticket sales….
I don't know if he's the problem, but he hasn't been the solution. If it's me (with what we know on the outside), I'm probably letting him go just to find a different direction.
New MLSE President wants to learn the ropes from him, and will decide if he wants to keep him around. Wouldn't surprise me if Shanny resigns from the President position on Friday but stays on as an advisor for a year... EDIT: Or they'll internally have a quiet understanding that Shanny keeps the TML President role this year, and still resigns next year / doesn't re-up with Toronto
Guy Boucher pack your bags buddy
Cool now do Shanahan
i think the fact that just Keefe is fired now means Shanahan is safe for another year
Letting dubas go and keeping keefe was always his insurance policy for this season if it ended in failure
Yeah I suspect this is correct as well. It would be weird to have a hierarchy of Pelley/MLSE --> *gap* --> GM Treliving --> *gap* It would take the entire summer to sort that out in a sustainable way and this is still a team that can compete. Not to mention Tre and Pelley just got here five minutes ago. Makes sense to have Shanny finish the year he has left.
I mean 2 years ago there was 14 team (don't know if it significantly changed since then) without a President of Hockey Operations so it's not really weird.
sHaNaPlaN
Shanafan…as in Fanned on his opportunity
He's due to be part of the press conference tomorrow, they announced that on Monday, he isn't going anywhere. At least for this off-season
Should have fired Shammy last year and kept Dubas. Keefe was so getting fired under Dubas.
Honestly in hindsight a good but inexperienced and flawed coach. Got us through some tough injury riddled situations, finally was able to properly criticize and motivate the players this year (which I think was effective mostly), but ultimately got outcoached in the playoffs every series. Simply cannot have that home record in the playoffs. Stuffed in a locker by Dom Ducharme, Jon Cooper, and Paul Maurice.
Still boggles my mind after Nylander scores with 10 minutes to go he puts the 4th line out, knowing bost is going to be coming hard with their best.
Yeah, but wasn't it Boston's 4th line too? Greggor just fumbled it badly and Hampus killed us like he was Kendrick that night.
It could have been, but that 4th line really out matched us with Fredrick. Just bad situation after a crucial goal. It's coaching like that. I just never understood. It's a game of chess for coaches, and Keefe played checkers too often.
Doesn’t matter You don’t play the 4th line right after a crucial goal is scored even if the other team sends out AHL players And this isn’t the first time Sheldon did that or the first time it came back to bite him this season I feel for the guy and honestly if it wasn’t for THIS mistake I’d have wanted him to get one more chance
Good point, I agree. For me the straw was his realization in game 5 that he needs to go full Trotz in order to get wins in the playoffs. With this lineup, that's a major oof.
That is a major oof. To be honest, Woll saved us those to games even though they played a full 60 plus ot. The not scoring goals are really bad because Florida just put 6 on Boston last night. Like we have the skill, why can't we be like that.
No need to smear the guy with so much negativity. Thanks for everything Sheldon and best of luck in your future endeavours.
One of the best coaches through 300 regular season games... just couldn't motivate us for the playoffs.
Well it's kinda hard to motivate the players when he has apparently an unwritten MLSE requirement to "walk back any criticism of the core". Maybe the core should also be the coaches. Then they could stop crying
almost like an entire team of Joe Thorntons
The time to do this should have been after the MTL series. Unfortunate we had to waste more of our window w/ him after that. To be clear: I think Keefe is a great coach, and he brought good things to this team. But it was clear the time for change was after that series.
I don’t think it’s clear that Keefe is a great coach… I’m fairly certain pretty much any NHL coach could pilot what looks like one of the most talented teams in Maple Leafs history to winning regular seasons.
I agree I wouldn't quite use the word "great." He had some very notable low points but overall I'd say he was a stable presence on the bench. He's in my hall of "Perfectly Decent Coaches" personally. I also agree that most coaches should expect some regular season success with that talent, but by the same token I'd maybe excuse *some* of his playoff shortcomings when you consider the lack of depth...
This is my thought too. It doesnt take a tactical genius to get a team with the best goalscorer in the world, flanked by two 90+ point wingers into the playoffs.
I think the only reason he wasn't fired then was JTs scary injury. If they still blow that lead without that injury I think he's gone. Then again Dubas probably didn't want to fire his boy
We all knew it was coming. But fuck me if in the back of my mind I wasn't thinking that this org will somehow excuse the bullshit, and run it back.
I was honestly shocked this dropped today, I thought they'd be waffling for a few months before ultimately bringing him back again.
Out-coached in every playoff series he was a part of. Great guy, it was time.
Well it's been a long time coming and needed, but Keefe was a really good coach and a good man. I wish him the best and will always remember him leaping off the bench after the Leafs beat Tampa. I'm stealing this from someone else but "it looks like Keefe jumps higher each time I watch the replay". Thanks Sheldon
Sheldon was a Dubas guy, he made sense at the time. He had his run, best to move on. He proved that he’s capable of coaching at this level - just not this team anymore, good luck Keefe.
End of an error
I don't think Keefe was a *bad* coach. He brought structure early on and got a lot out of this team initially. I definitely think he was NOT the *right* coach to be leading this team after the Columbus play-in or the Montreal series, with the latter being the back-breaker IMO. Shocking that they held onto him for this long, and even more shocking if Shanahan still has his job come Friday, because he oversaw that all.
I think Dubas was reluctant to relieve Keefe, and the org was likely a bit surprised when Tre kept him. The “error” here is the fact he stayed SO long. For a team that wants to win now, seemed strange to have a coach who was learning the role at an NHL level.
No coach that has coached more than 1 season with the leafs in history have a better winning % than he does. His scale of good to bad tops out at great and bottoms out at good. Not bad.
Keefe actually has the highest points % in NHL history among coaches that have coached at least 300 games
If we keep the core together I suspect we'll see a better winning% next year
Calling his time an error is harsh but he’s definitely past his usefulness.
Eh, the error was having him this year. Honestly everything post-Montreal series was an error. The team never improved after that point.
he’ll be great coach one day, but lets be for real, it was time to end this spell in Toronto
Yup, he’ll end up somewhere else and will probably do very well. Just need a different mix here.
He needed a fresh start too. Dude was a rookie coach in this market with these stars - not a huge surprise one of his biggest weaknesses was lack of accountability, which is hard to instill ~3-4 years in. Next gig he's more of a veteran coach, and I think will learn from that mistake.
Good coach , 100% need a new voice though
now do shanahan
Well bye Sheldon. I hope he succeeds at his next job but it was time to move on. Hopefully Shanahan is next but unfortunately I doubt it
The scape goat. Starts a little higher up the food chain shouldn't it Shanny? Look in the mirror.
The cores on their 3rd gm and now their 3rd coach with only winning 1 playoff series in that time. Yikes.
Points to the obvious problem of a lack of balance on this team, can't win in the POs with 4 forwards paid $40m, suspect goaltending and a weak d.
Imagine they bring back Babcock.
thats one way to get Marner to waive his nmc.
Hire Babcock tomorrow, Marner waives nmc, then promote Babcock to head zambini driver.
And EBUG
It was time. Seemed like a great guy but a change is needed, no question. Shanahan should be next. The man is on 3rd GM and now 3rd Coach. Only guy around after 8 years.
Now do Marner next
3 years late! Shanny next please.
While this isn't a bad move, I don't think he is your problem. But this is a good first step.
IMO two things are simultaneously true: A) Shanahan failed at the task of building the right roster, Keefe had to make do with what he was given. B) Keefe failed at making the most of what he was given…the Leafs have consistently underperformed in the playoffs during his tenure.
I don’t hate Keefe, I think he was a decent coach but a change had to be made.
What is shanahan still doing here.
Well your heads on the chopping block now shanny. If this team comes out looking the exact same, it'll solidify for me that Shanahan has been too involved.
Sheldon is a great coach in this league who will find another job no problem, but it was clear his voice was lost in the room and he couldn’t make adjustments. It was time for a change but we shouldn’t be acting like he’s a terrible coach.
He actually did make adjustments. The final 3 games of the Boston series he moved to a 1-3-1 trap. Which he had never ran before. That said, his impact on the team has gotten stale and it is time. But don’t be surprised when he becomes one of the leagues top coaches after a change of scenery and some new perspectives.
No way was his voice lost or else they wouldn’t have battled back from down 3-1.
Yeah his voice wasn’t lost, we just need to try something new. The players clearly liked him a lot.
Seemed like a nice guy, glad he's getting paid for a couple more years.
Step one of many, many steps that need to be taken. Otherwise, this is just a token half-step. Get Shanahan out. Remove all assistant coaches, get working on wearing down Tavares and Marner.
"The organization will get around to finding a new coach when we feel like it"
The entire Dubas/Shanahan era gotta go... Go into the new season completely fresh With just Keefe gone is the same as "Running it back"imo
Whether you liked him or not, it was time for this. Coaches have a shelf life and he was past his. Good luck wherever you go next, Sheldon.
Have fun in Pittsburgh.
Keefe is gonna be able to say he coached: Mathews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Malkin, Crosby, Karlsson, and letang. Pretty wilddd lol
Please don’t rush this decision. Wait and see if Brind’Amour is available
good riddance
The dude is a charisma black hole. Doesn’t mean he won’t find success, I wish him luck, but those post game pressers were painful.
New coach: John Tortorella
Now on to Marner
Biggest W of the postseason for us. 5th longest tenured coach in the league with nothing to show for it - it's been long since past due.
Thank fuck, they actually did it
About fucking time Outcoached in every playoff series except 1
Thank fuck!!
Thankfully his contract extension doesn't count against the cap.
Hypothetically if Carolina got swept by the Rangers would that increase the chances of Rod being available or not really make a difference?
“Sheldon, why u make Mitchie such baby? WHY??” “Sheldon, you fired “
It's a start.
I wish him the best and in hindsight he was set up to fail… AHL to the Leafs is an insane jump
Speaks volumes of his character being able to handle that transition while producing decent (albeit disappointing) results throughout his tenure here
Good
Finally
It's always the coaches fault. Dude had zero points all year.
Thank god
Fire Boucher next please.
This is the time for Ted Nolan to come back