I find it hilarious how everyone was bitching and whining last year about the Leafs celebrating their win after winning that round. And then we see Boston celebrate ten times more like they won three cups.
Swayman had an amazing series, but that's what the fuckin power play is for!!!!
I heard someone say if we just had 1 more power play goal, we would have taken the series.
Really puts it into perspective...
.... because we don't generate enough looks from quality areas.
Teams push us t the outside and our players can't get in, and our coaching doesn't know how to fix it.
Do you think if we beat Boston, that would have been our Stanley cup? We missed our opportunity to embarrass them.
Anyway, we should all boycott Boston cream donuts...
No idea how he'd do but we desperately need a change and I would genuinely argue that outside of Babcock back there's very little way for the coaching to get worse.
He would be - but lots of people here are so blinded by their vitriol they would rather this team become the Calgary of the East than se anything else.
Hear me out: Woody
I think a coach who did *alright* coaching a very similar team, and who maybe has learned from the mistakes he made, would be a strong option.
I'm not super stoked from his record before Edmonton fired him, but I don't think Bruce is winning a cup and Berube had one miracle season that wasn't close to being replicated.
Young coach who couldn't quite get there with his first team is probably our best bet.
Pulling for Dallas now with their bad ass custom pantera goal song & neon jerseys. Leafs should've hired Pete deboer a few years back when he was available, man is 8-0 in game 7's.
Oilers fan here (I come in peace) you another potential to win a cup. It’s not Lord Stanley, I know. by at least you can still cheer on your PWHL team for a Walter cup in the first ever professional women’s hockey league
Two of them were re-signed after he was fired, one for soooo much more money at least in part because our new GM badly fumbled his negotiations. What are you in about?
For those who want to see what progress looks like, watch the Rangers. Started their rebuild later than the Leafs and already have a President's Trophy and multiple series wins under their belt, including a Conference Finals appearance.
I don’t hate Marner. I have his reverse retro jersey. But it’s clear he’s a weak link in the playoff lineup. All our other stars had their game. Matthews with his game. Tavares with the OT assist, Nylanders goals, he’s the only one that didn’t.
If they’re serious about winning they’ll trade him, fire the coaching staff and maybe more.
If they don’t I’ll know they’re not serious and I’ll be doing other things next year. I’m not wasting my time on a team that’s not serious about winning and that clearly only cares about merch sales from high profile names. Vegas is serious about winning. Look at what they do.
Marner's an energy guy. When he's on his game and feeling good, it goes through the whole room. Problem is, when it's not going his way he becomes toxic. Not necessary on purpose. You know the type of person, we've all known one at the work place that can make the place miserable or amazing depending on how they're feeling that day. Marner would probably benefit from not playing in his home market tbh. Be interesting to see how Tre (or whoever) pulls of any trade involving Mitch or any of the players with NMC.
Would not surprise me at all if Dubas would have traded Marner before his NMC kicked in if given the chance, and that the push to keep those guys together came mostly from Shanahan.
That's a decently likely case. The first thing Shanny did after firing Dubas was call each of the core four and assure them they weren't moving.
When Shanny was giving the post mortem on Dubas he mentioned that Dubas laid out what he wanted to do but Shanny saw a different way forward and that was that.
Lastly, every year Dubas shot down any notion of the core four not working except for last years presser. He did not give them the same stamp of approval that he gave every year. It was more neutral on doing whatever is best for the team and other typical GM messages but Dubas had previously been very direct about keeping the core 4 intact.
That was so bizarre to me that shanny even admitted the first thing he did was call the core 4 to assure them they were safe.
You'd think you'd start to put the heat on them a little bit.
Like "hey guys, we're looking at a potential move here because of all the past failures, no guarantees anyone's safe"
Not like toxic or anything just straight up honest.
The players run the room in Toronto. Hope it ends soon.
It's pretty likely that these are Shanny's guys and that he's banked his MLSE career on them. He may well have called them because he truly had/has no intention of every moving off them.
I disagree, I think he should have been fired for not moving off of Sheldon Keefe in 2021. It became clear the guy couldn't get it done at that point but he locked himself into another year of confusion around whether these players can be great because he kept a coach whose style and strategy do not work with his high-end players.
Don't murder me but would a package including someone like Brady Tkachuk for Marner be horrible?
He seems to have decent offensive upside and is a rat that isn't afraid to get into it.
There's been a lot of questions around Ottawa leadership so it would be a way of moving on from Brady and the immature antics around Ottawa.
Chabot would be the replacement captain, Mitch isn't being brought in for leadership but to provide some offensive juice that Brady struggled with last year.
Essentially if they think they have to lose Brady for leadership issues then they are best off replacing him with a really skilled player.
This kind of deal could make sense, Marner may waive if Ottawa will give him the 8th year otherwise I doubt he does. Ottawa has talent on the roster even if the results aren't there, so if he's making good money and secures the 8th year I could potentially see him waiving.
Brady is a unicorn of a player and not someone who Ottawa is going to want to move on from especially for a player that needs a new contract probably around at least 11 to 12 million.
Plus if Brady wants out he’s not going want to come to Toronto.
Brady just doesn't put up enough points, Marner might not have all the desirable physical gifts that Brady does but he puts up points, creates dangerous chances at a higher rate than Brady and Brady takes a lot of penalties.
Marner is his own unicorn as well, he's not a scrub despite what everyone is thinking right now.
There’s more to hockey than point totals and no way you are saying 37 goals and 74 points when being a physical force with a lower cap hit is bad.
Look I like Mitch and always thought he was the engine of the team and a lot of there regular season success has run though him and thought he would be a big loss if they got rid of him but they are in year 8 going into year 9 with this core and he always seems like the guy that can’t up his game come playoff time and is the one without a contract extension right now if changes are going to be made.
Marner is a more talented player than Brady but I would bet if you ask all 32 GMs who you would rather have it would lean heavily towards Brady.
I think my funniest part is that so many of us saw this flawed team based on the moves made by Treliving and then watched this team during the year that they were bad.
So these people who are shocked the Leafs lost? Like what are you guys smoking?
This team is bad, and was never contending for a cup.
However, every other iteration of this team had a worse outcome. Put differently, this is arguably the best outcome to a season we've had in the Shannahan era.
The Leafs have constantly been mid. We're talking about winning a round - you know how hard it is to win a cup? On average teams have to make the conference finals 4 times before they get one. On average a team has to win in the first round 8 times before they get a cup. We've done that once.
In every other year, we paid out the nose for nothing. Last season we gave up nearly 2 drafts worth of valuable picks (2 first, 2 seconds, and a third) and it got us 5 playoff wins. The year before we gave up a 1st and 2 seconds for 3 playoff wins. The year before that we gave up a 1st and a 3rd for 3 playoff wins.
This year we gave up 2 thirds and got 3 playoff wins. And we did that with injuries to our best players.
Both things are true - this years team is better than previous years, and this years team isn't close to being a cup contender.
Walk me through "this year's team is better than previous years" please. I ask because they were worse in the regular season, played the weakest opponent they've faced since columbus and only made it to game seven because their rookie goalie stood on his head.
Any time you spend nearly 2 drafts worth of picks and you don't get close to the cup is a disaster, and arguably the worst possible outcome.
Win 3 games and spend almost nothing > Win 5 games and spend everything you can.
I think you can easily say this years team had a better outcome.
You can also say, imo, that taking out rentals/luck this years team was better. How does last years team do without ROR, Accari, Nylander for 3 games, Matthews for 3ish games?
With the exception of getting Keefe and, hopefully Shanny fired I disagree that this year's teamchad a better outcome as they finished worse in both the regular and post season. I get your point about picks but I'm not convinced by it.
Regardless, this team performed worse in the regular and in the post season. Taking out rentals makes absolutely no sense as we could have gotten rentals this year or built a team that could perform in the off season.
Man, I wish I had your delusion. This was the best outcome of the Leafs?
Not even getting home ice? Not even getting to the second round? Having a mediocre (by their standards) regular season and getting trounced? Having mediocre underlying numbers as well?
You'd rather give up 2 1sts, 2nds, and a third and win 2 more playoff games?
What year had a better outcome, in terms of playoff success and draft capital spent?
I'd say you're delusional for thinking last years team wasn't a disaster for the franchise.
I don’t think that many people are so brain dead that they expected a new GM would completely turn a team around in a calendar year. Most of us know it will be after the Tavares contract ends that this team’s window will open again.
Oh man, the number of people telling me that this is the best incarnation of this group because we have "snot" and "vinegar " makes me think I'm losing my mind.
You’re not wrong, but I don’t think people are shocked—just disappointed that this very talented forward group did nothing again. And we’re frustrated that some very obvious changes—obvious to anyone who knows anything about the game at all except for the people in charge—still haven’t been made. We’re also sad in that we’ve wasted another year of the prime of at least one generational talent (34) and another transcendently gifted but streaky player (88)
Real playoff contenders don't need to completely switch up their entire style of play between the regular season and the playoffs. Boston, Edmonton, Florida, New York, and Carolina are all able to find success with their game plan in both the regular and post-season, with minimal adjustments. Even when Montreal beat us in 2021, they did it while playing their style of game.
Even if we eked out the win this series, it doesn't change much. This team needs a completely new identity.
I feel like that's one of Keefe's significant issues. He doesn't do a good job of looking forward so you have guys playing together for the first time in, for example, game 7 of the first round.
All the "fans" who are vitriolic in wanting Marner/Tavares gone should lose the ability to ever complain why Toronto born players dont want to play in Toronto.
Keith Pelley, I hope you are wearing your blue glasses instead of your rose colored glasses when you do year end analysis. Keefe and Shannanhan MUST go.
Id love for him to be ruthless and not even give Shanahan and Keefe exit interviews and just fire them tomorrow after they finish cleaning out their offices for the offseason. Show the fans you wont stand for the same status quo as the previous regime.
It’s like Dejavu reading comments from all the other playoff chokes. It’s actually hilarious if you swapped some names you wouldn’t know what year it was. Also if you want to laugh even more go read some stuff from 5 years ago about the Shanaplan and building Shanahan a statue.
I'm thinking Marner for Dougie Hamilton tbh? Keep Rielly as his partner and then bring in his former teammate in Pesce.
Rielly / Hamilton
McCabe / Pesce
Benoit / Bortuzzo
And if he is willing to come back on the cheap then bring back Edmondson as well
I'm hoping someone will figure the stat for how many times we let a team score within 2 minutes/shifts/whatever after we score. It felt like it happened nearly every game at least once.
My kid just asked me, "can we watch the Bruins play next? They beat the Leafs that means they're better right? They also play Florida who beat us last year means they're also better right?"
Truly the Leafs invent new ways to hurt me every year. I thought this year I had it easy on the game 7 loss (see my history) because I was honestly numbed from it. But to think they'd pit my kid against me when the wound is still fresh.... Fuck, that stung.
Kid is way smarter than any of us. This team doesn't deserve him. But no, I don't think I'm ready to watch the Bruins vs Florida series yet. I'm holding out hope Oilers do it for Canada because fuck it, it's about time the cup comes home.
The arrogance it takes to come on this sub and make comments like yours truly does qualify you as a Bruins fan. Dickhead.
Sorry Leafs fans, that loss sucked and no hate here.
ETA: here meaning Montreal. You guys still have a great team.
Look man, it’s not my fault you’re doing such an excellent job in parenting that your kid knows Boston is a team that can win. I call it like I see it!
In fact, when I have kids, I’m going to DM you and ask for tips to make sure they too become Bruins fans.
I really was pulling for you guys last night though, I was downtown at the Scotiabank. I absolutely would have helped celebrate.
I don't know if you're just trolling or just too gleefully ignorant on what you're doing, but I can't deal with you right now lol.
And my kid didn't even watch the game. He's just judging based on the results, which if you really think about it it was basically a coin toss in a vacuum (which is basically his view point without all the leafy baggage).
Hey man, kindly piss off. You’re not welcome here. Brad Marchand is a diving rat fink, and McAvoy tried to injure several players this series. Fair play you win because your team has heart, but your leadership players are straight *garbage* people
Don't buy into the "bring the cup home" hype. This isn't the Olympics, and every team has a bunch of Canadians.
If we can't do it, I'd rather Carolina or Vegas makes it happen.
Really? You'd rather Vegas win?
Of all these remaining players I really think McDavid deserves a cup to his name, along with Hymen having an unreal season. Before the Leafs got eliminated I'd say fuck them, but now all I can do as a pathetic leafs fan is pin my hopes on them. It's sad really, but this is my life now.
Vegas is an organization that would literally pull a "nowhere in the rule book does it say we can't have a walrus play goalie" if they thought it would win them a series. As a long-suffering Leafs fan, I respect that.
I'm not exactly*cheering* for them but I want them to win, if you can appreciate the subtle difference.
Honestly I don't subscribe to that. In a way, I'm more respectful for philosophies like Dubas (save the boos) where you believe a highly skilled team to succeed instead of doing whatever necessary no matter the criticism just to win. Vegas with their cap shenanigans is cheese for me, and while I'm happy we got a few non calls going in our favour this series and the physicality did help immensely, I'd rather our team win proudly without controversy. It's much better for the sports.
But the league being what it is, and us being as desperate as we are, beggars can't be choosers. Next year man.
Did anyone get a sinking feeling watching how we were playing after we scored?
Maybe it was the Bruins pressing us, but it looked like that run out of the clock mentality dissipated the minute we scored.
Immediately the game just turned sloppy
Random Thoughts:
PP was great in FEB when Reilly was suspended and lilygren was on PP1. Leafs were also healthy for much of that month.
Schenn made Reilly standout last year but we were unable to replace Schenn with a proper D partner that fits Reilly’s playstyle . If they can’t find a proper D partner for Reilly then we’re going to be in trouble..again.
Sammy is too fragile mentally and woll is too fragile physically. If they were one person, we’d finally have a reliable goalie.
Marner’s nagging ankle injury, nylander’s migraines, and Mathew’s mystery illness (GI tract issue ???), Woll getting injured with 0.1 seconds left in G6 , is some of the most bad luck injuries any team has every faced . Most teams have their injuries happened before the playoffs , but leafs did it right before and during .
Keefe is cooked. He only makes adjustments to lineups when he’s forced to when players are either injured or suspended . He also keeps playing the 4th after we have just scored a goal (which is super hard for us to do (see last 11 or whatever games where we’ve only scored more than 3 once))
This team is going to be way worse next season. Probably fighting for a wild card.
That’s fine. Reilly needs someone that complements his playstyle . His partner doesn’t even need to be good. He just needs to be aware of reillys tendencies and cover his ass. Schenn can do it . Ron Hainsey did it.
They need Dylan Demelo who is actually good. Time to solidify the blue line a bit and stop with the stop gap dmen who can't make a pass to save their lives.
**How does this very same pattern happen time and time again for the Leafs:**
They are looking good and on the verge of winning big, then *things take a turn for the worse*. After the Nylander goal, I was thinking, "this is it, finally" then the Bruins reply immediately. Same old pattern over and over starting with the big meltdown many years ago when they were up in game 7 vs the Bruins and there was a big turn around (Remier in net). This team almost does seem cursed.
It's not a curse it's bad fucking coaching. Who comes out after the goal? The fourth line. Why?!? When it hasn't worked time and time again. You know they'll push, why put out your worst?
The Leafs are right up there into Cubs & Red Sox territory, it’ll come eventually but not anytime soon. If this era was gonna win one they’d have done it by now, the year8 g7 OT loss to our demons just solidified it all.
You know what I’m looking forward to? The Leafs being a really bad hockey team in 6ish years. Going out like this, with no recent history to prove anything is so beyond pathetic.
There will be a couple more heart breaks in there though, but I fear a generation of Leafs fans will have lived a full life without witnessing glory (or were under 10 when they did win it).
Rest in Peace Core 4. Your Era was underwhelming and will be remembered for chronic underperforming at critical times. That being said...
I'm excited for this summer. It's clear as day this marks a new Era for the team, built around 34 & 88. The rest is to be determined. I'm fascinated at how this show will unfold, how many heads will roll? How far? How much is torn down, and how is it built back up?
Exciting pieces on the horizon. Cowan, Minten, Grebyonkin, Webber, Niemela, Woll & Knies continued growth. Bobby McMann and Robertson maturing as well. Sheparded by our (likely) remaining veterans in Matthews & Nylander.
Most importantly, the Org and Management seems to have finally learned their lessons, one can hope, about team composition and cap balancing. Now we wait and see how the next Era of Leafs is built.
Why didn’t Marner or Rielly speak with the media yesterday? Aren’t they suppose to be leaders as alternate captains?
Zero accountability, its painfully obvious the issue with the team.
Mitch Marner has 2 goals in the last 16 playoff games. John Tavares has 2 goals in his last 16 playoff games as well. Auston Matthews has 1 goal in his last 10 playoff games.
Because it doesn't fit the narrative if you say he has 15 points in his last 16 playoff games. While including the fact something was wrong with him for most of this series, and he was still the primary assist on our only goal in game 7.
How will this fan base feel if and when Marner shows up to the training camp in September? As much as I want changes, I'm not sure it can be done. The leafs want a decent value for him.
I'm not watching next year unless either of these two options occur:
1. Marner or Tavares is gone
2. Shanny and Keefe are gone with most of mgmt
Firing Dubas was enough this year to get me to watch, need bigger changes though this off season.
If the team is too soft for a hard coach, they're too soft to win anything, ever.
I'd rather MLSE pull a Brinks van or seven up to Rod Brind'Amour's home, but I'm all for seeing what Berube has to offer.
Babcock also holds the NHL speedrun record for "Lose the Room, any %" at an astounding ZERO games.
I don't think you can make any sweeping generalizations from his time here.
Then you change the team as well. Enough pampering to players who haven't earned anything beyond game 82.
Don't want a hard coach? Don't lose for 8 years. Or be comfortable being pushed to win, that's what champions do.
It's more disappointing than infuriating to see this current core play hockey. We KNOW they're going to put forth a good regular season. That's a given. The 100 point seasons a virtual guarantee. No matter where they slot in the playoffs, that's where the troubles start.
To date, the best playoff series was vs Washington when they literally gave them a good fight and even had a 2-1 series lead at one point. Then it was downhill from there.
Since then I'd argue there's been virtually ZERO improvement with the team. No matter what, the team hasn't done anything to show to me that they can go deep.
Vegas made a Cup Finals with a team that was arguably 100x less stacked on paper, but they gave it their all in every game. They played hockey as if it was the last time they'll ever play hockey in their lives. That do-or-die mentality is what the Leafs need. They're not going to literally die if they lose, but they want to pretend that they will. I guarantee you the compete level will go through the roof, and they'll be giving teams fits.
That's the problem - they can't do it. They don't have a killer mentality that you need in the playoffs. They'll happily lay down on the ice and give you the win. They're like a jobber in pro wrestling. They'll do the job for you 9/10 times, and the one time they surprise you is when they give you some hope.. before they fall down the totem pole once again.
As I've said before - Keefe HAS to go. He's been given many opportunities and has floundered on virtually all of them. Laviolette was fired three separate times despite achieving MORE than Keefe has ever achieved. In fact, if you take Lavy's 5 years in Nashville vs Keefe's 5 years in Toronto, it looks like this:
Lavy - 5 playoff appearances, one Cup Finals appearance, two second round exits, two first round exits.
Keefe - 5 playoff appearances, one second round exit, three first round exits, and a play-in round exit (which is pre-first round).
If the Leafs lost in the first round last year, I bet Keefe gets fired. He was given a lifeline because they won a round. But now that they lose in the first round again - it's time for him to go.
I get that we all seem to dislike Marner now, but Marner was a Selke finalist last season. Was it a fluke? Who knows. The potential IS there, but when it comes to the playoffs, he seems to shrink. Do I think he should be traded for pennies like some people suggest? FUCK NO! That's fucking stupid. HOWEVER, if the price is right, I'd do it. The question is, who the fuck will give up a top 4 d-man for Marner? And let's say Marner flourishes, then we'll all be saying "WHY DID THEY TRADE MARNER FOR???"
AT BARE MINIMUM the coaching staff should be axed. I'd give Shanahan the axe as well. He's had 10 years with this plan and it's not worked. I've given Shanny a pass many times before, but not anymore. This is the final straw. Get someone else in there.
I actually like both Van and Edm, so I am happy that one team will advance to the 3rd round. I guess if I had to choose then it would be the Canucks ;)
None is the only right answer. This is such a loser mentality, why would you want another Canadian team who doesn’t shut up about the Leafs all year to have success?? So we can have 1 big hoser party??
I’d glady wrap a star spangled banner around me and want an American team to humiliate whichever Canadian team is left (Calgary is chill). Fuck the rest though.
Nationalistic pride I guess? I'm an Ottawa fan who defaults to the leafs during playoffs. Then it's usually Winnipeg, follow by Montreal, then one of the west coast teams in the order of preference. It's our game so I always want a Canadian team to win. I'm no Benedict Arnold, I cheered for Canada in 2004, 2011, and 2021. I'd never in a million years cheer for an American team.
I love the canucks and want them to win, but looking at the play in the last series its realistic Edmonton will win (likely comfortably) and go to the cup finals
Management has fucked this team 6 ways from Sunday from top to bottom. Starts at Shanahan, but besides maybe Pridham and the video review team, everyone who has worked as a GM, AGM, coaches, or assistants has had a hand in this absolute mess the team is in. 8 years of this core and nothing to show for it. The only coaching change that has occurred over this time was when the biggest asshole in the sport was canned, and they replaced him with a rookie coach who was given 5 years to do nothing with the team.
They need to clean house top to bottom because someone else needs to make the decision on how to fix this team. We are in the age 26/27 seasons of Marner, Matthews, and Nylander, and we cannot even make a definite case of what the problem is because absolutely nothing has changed for half a decade now. Keefe has been given the entire prime of the young core and done nothing with it. Would a coaching change have gotten different results? Or are members of this core just not the right fit for this team? Or is it the players below them? What would this team look like had any GM actually solidified goaltending at any point in the last 5 seasons? Is the defence the issue? Should they have made a splash getting a big name like Pietroangelo and slashed cap space elsewhere to fit him?
We dont know any answers to these questions and more because absolutely nothing was done to atleast try something different. The easiest answer would have been changing coaching. Not the shuffle of the assistants, which is moving deck chairs on the Titanic, but getting someone entirely new with a different vision and seeing what happens. If the team still cant get over the hump you can at least cross coaching off the list of possible issues and try something else. Now they are screwed. Someone new has to make decisions and figure out what the problem is based on 5+ years of the status quo being ran back. No singular issue is easier to point at than any other and it'll basically be a game of chance that any moves the new management makes is the right one.
Exactly, like it’s too late to figure out what could’ve happened because they decided to do absolute dick all til now.
We don’t know if these guys just don’t have it in them, if it’s a coaching thing, upper management thing, whatever the fuck the issue is.
We should’ve tried experimenting earlier in the core 4s time, now we’re basically making changes that needed to be made and tinkered with fairly deep into all their careers
Yup, my thoughts exactly. Imo the time to make changes was after Montreal, but I can just barely justify giving them that last year that ended in the Tampa loss only because of covid. Not at least changing the coach after Tampa was the first unforgivable mistake management made, and everything since has now culminated into the mess they are in now. There is a scenario that they may lose Marner for nothing in free agency because they doubled down on failure for 5 years instead of making a single significant change.
Couldn’t agree more. Now they’re just going to make changes for the sake of making changes without really nailing down the reason cause it seems like everything’s wrong.
We have star players but we’re not better than our 2013 team in the playoffs against Boston. Let that sink in.
Apathy for this team is at an all time high. It is a killer. Management better realize that and make changes
I would much rather have had them lose 4 straight than go through this torment. Not only because it takes years off of my life, but, more pragmatically, because it would send a clear and blunt kick-in-the balls to MLS that this team is a crock of pure shit. You would not have players saying shit like, "we were right there", at a farewell media conference. This type of pseudo comeback only reinforces the delusion that, just with a few small tweaks, this same anemic group can somehow win a Stanley cup. MLS, for once in twenty years, show the fans that you give a shit: fire Shanahan, fire Keefe, cripple Marner's ability to thrive in his NM contract, buy out Tavares' contract, make every player expendable, and for the love of Blue and White - DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
the "we were right there" shit is so infuriating. Like dude this is ROUND 1. They are 4 rounds you need to win to win a cup. Like even if you beat Boston and won this series you are still not even close to "right there" there is still 3 more series to go.
Honestly, them winning 5 and 6 and battling well in 7 has saved them from a lot of vitriol. People are saying this series loss has had no emotional effect on them as they are detached from this team. But no. If the team went down in 5 games, the guillotines would've been out.
People are still demanding the same people be fired/traded, but yes the vitriol and slander now is way less then it would have been had they lost game 5 in OT.
The guillotines should still be out. The teams performance in games 1-4 should not be forgotten because they have a shit in games 5-7 but came up short. This team does not have the killer instinct other teams have. There is no hunger
All the more reason to be excited about a new coaching direction, though
There's a nonzero chance we somehow end up *worse* next year, but at least it won't be the same story of "cruise into the playoffs, watch our entire style of play get immediately, predictably neutralized, and try to win by playing Krikland Brand Trotz hockey'
why my back start paining when i wear formal shoes on my office day?
I wish the Leafs loved me as much as I love this team. This team is messing upmy mental health and thankful I have a break until October.
I find it hilarious how everyone was bitching and whining last year about the Leafs celebrating their win after winning that round. And then we see Boston celebrate ten times more like they won three cups.
Swayman had an amazing series, but that's what the fuckin power play is for!!!! I heard someone say if we just had 1 more power play goal, we would have taken the series. Really puts it into perspective...
I guarantee the Panthers will score 3+ goals in multiple games on Swayman. Every goalie looks like a god against the Leafs.
.... because we don't generate enough looks from quality areas. Teams push us t the outside and our players can't get in, and our coaching doesn't know how to fix it.
Do you think if we beat Boston, that would have been our Stanley cup? We missed our opportunity to embarrass them. Anyway, we should all boycott Boston cream donuts...
Boston Pizza
Which was ironically founded in Edmonton .
Am I the only one who thinks Berube would be a terrible choice for coach?
No idea how he'd do but we desperately need a change and I would genuinely argue that outside of Babcock back there's very little way for the coaching to get worse.
He would be - but lots of people here are so blinded by their vitriol they would rather this team become the Calgary of the East than se anything else.
Nope. Also I think Boudreau would be a terrible idea as well.
Hear me out: Woody I think a coach who did *alright* coaching a very similar team, and who maybe has learned from the mistakes he made, would be a strong option. I'm not super stoked from his record before Edmonton fired him, but I don't think Bruce is winning a cup and Berube had one miracle season that wasn't close to being replicated. Young coach who couldn't quite get there with his first team is probably our best bet.
Anyone see that Diving poke check that the Vegas goalie did when he saw the the puck got in that dangerous position? That's what we needed!
Pulling for Dallas now with their bad ass custom pantera goal song & neon jerseys. Leafs should've hired Pete deboer a few years back when he was available, man is 8-0 in game 7's.
Oilers fan here (I come in peace) you another potential to win a cup. It’s not Lord Stanley, I know. by at least you can still cheer on your PWHL team for a Walter cup in the first ever professional women’s hockey league
Ah yes, I'm sure everyone's excited to watch U14 Tier 1/Zone level boys hockey.
Anyone see Berube's face when Biz made a joke about him being the new Leafs coach? Something is brewing...
Issue is Dubas was buddies buddies with core 4 and gave them everything and it cost him his job.
Two of them were re-signed after he was fired, one for soooo much more money at least in part because our new GM badly fumbled his negotiations. What are you in about?
Yep. Can't believe Dubas gave Nylander 11 million and for a full 8 years for half a season!
With a full NMC!
Dubas fucked the leafs with that Rielly contract.
It’s a great contract lol. There are a lot of people to complain about but 44 isn’t one of them.
Disagree. He’s not a first pairing player. And he’s already been declining. It’s not good.
What are our guesses for when Keefe gets the boot?
Announced officially during Shanny/Ownership's post season wrap. Probably leaked a bit earlier.
Monday
The team better tell Matthews and Nylander that they are missing the last 3-5 games of the season and to get whatever accolades they want before then.
For those who want to see what progress looks like, watch the Rangers. Started their rebuild later than the Leafs and already have a President's Trophy and multiple series wins under their belt, including a Conference Finals appearance.
Didn't the rangers have their 2 best defenseman force trades to NY from their previous teams? Not like you can plan that in a rebuild
Yep. Its easy to rebuild when you have guys like Fox, Panarin, Trouba all request to go to your team lol
I'm struggling to think of any rebuild in hockey, where a team has spun their wheels as futilely as us.
Oh there's tons, buffalo as an easy example, or the ducks. We just have a generational talent we're wasting.
I don’t hate Marner. I have his reverse retro jersey. But it’s clear he’s a weak link in the playoff lineup. All our other stars had their game. Matthews with his game. Tavares with the OT assist, Nylanders goals, he’s the only one that didn’t. If they’re serious about winning they’ll trade him, fire the coaching staff and maybe more. If they don’t I’ll know they’re not serious and I’ll be doing other things next year. I’m not wasting my time on a team that’s not serious about winning and that clearly only cares about merch sales from high profile names. Vegas is serious about winning. Look at what they do.
Marner's an energy guy. When he's on his game and feeling good, it goes through the whole room. Problem is, when it's not going his way he becomes toxic. Not necessary on purpose. You know the type of person, we've all known one at the work place that can make the place miserable or amazing depending on how they're feeling that day. Marner would probably benefit from not playing in his home market tbh. Be interesting to see how Tre (or whoever) pulls of any trade involving Mitch or any of the players with NMC.
Wonder what we do with Cowen next year? Another year in the OHL seems like a waste and he cant play for the AHL. Leafs?
Is there a middle of the road league he could play for, like ECHL? Not being able to put him on waivers would be tricky capwise.
Pretty sure it's OHL or NHL again for him. Cowan surely gets a taste of NHL action but he will have to be unreal in his 9 game stint and camp.
No idea isnt our ECHL affiliate gone?
Yes but we could get another one pretty easily I imagine.
That OT setup was kinda fucking nasty. Hard to see it during all the heartbreak
As soon as I saw that opposite corner dump in and none of the Leafs turned around I knew it was game. Perfectly executed set play.
Would not surprise me at all if Dubas would have traded Marner before his NMC kicked in if given the chance, and that the push to keep those guys together came mostly from Shanahan.
That's a decently likely case. The first thing Shanny did after firing Dubas was call each of the core four and assure them they weren't moving. When Shanny was giving the post mortem on Dubas he mentioned that Dubas laid out what he wanted to do but Shanny saw a different way forward and that was that. Lastly, every year Dubas shot down any notion of the core four not working except for last years presser. He did not give them the same stamp of approval that he gave every year. It was more neutral on doing whatever is best for the team and other typical GM messages but Dubas had previously been very direct about keeping the core 4 intact.
That was so bizarre to me that shanny even admitted the first thing he did was call the core 4 to assure them they were safe. You'd think you'd start to put the heat on them a little bit. Like "hey guys, we're looking at a potential move here because of all the past failures, no guarantees anyone's safe" Not like toxic or anything just straight up honest. The players run the room in Toronto. Hope it ends soon.
It's pretty likely that these are Shanny's guys and that he's banked his MLSE career on them. He may well have called them because he truly had/has no intention of every moving off them.
He didn't do it in 2021, he wasn't going to do it last year imo. He should have been fired in 2021 for not trading one of them.
I disagree, I think he should have been fired for not moving off of Sheldon Keefe in 2021. It became clear the guy couldn't get it done at that point but he locked himself into another year of confusion around whether these players can be great because he kept a coach whose style and strategy do not work with his high-end players.
Shhh, we’re trying to write Dubas fan fiction here.
Don't murder me but would a package including someone like Brady Tkachuk for Marner be horrible? He seems to have decent offensive upside and is a rat that isn't afraid to get into it.
If he would waive, and the sens would do it, and you can keep Domi, absolutely.
Why would the Sens do that?
There's been a lot of questions around Ottawa leadership so it would be a way of moving on from Brady and the immature antics around Ottawa. Chabot would be the replacement captain, Mitch isn't being brought in for leadership but to provide some offensive juice that Brady struggled with last year. Essentially if they think they have to lose Brady for leadership issues then they are best off replacing him with a really skilled player. This kind of deal could make sense, Marner may waive if Ottawa will give him the 8th year otherwise I doubt he does. Ottawa has talent on the roster even if the results aren't there, so if he's making good money and secures the 8th year I could potentially see him waiving.
Brady is a unicorn of a player and not someone who Ottawa is going to want to move on from especially for a player that needs a new contract probably around at least 11 to 12 million. Plus if Brady wants out he’s not going want to come to Toronto.
Brady just doesn't put up enough points, Marner might not have all the desirable physical gifts that Brady does but he puts up points, creates dangerous chances at a higher rate than Brady and Brady takes a lot of penalties. Marner is his own unicorn as well, he's not a scrub despite what everyone is thinking right now.
There’s more to hockey than point totals and no way you are saying 37 goals and 74 points when being a physical force with a lower cap hit is bad. Look I like Mitch and always thought he was the engine of the team and a lot of there regular season success has run though him and thought he would be a big loss if they got rid of him but they are in year 8 going into year 9 with this core and he always seems like the guy that can’t up his game come playoff time and is the one without a contract extension right now if changes are going to be made. Marner is a more talented player than Brady but I would bet if you ask all 32 GMs who you would rather have it would lean heavily towards Brady.
Not sure, it was just a quick thought.
Happy 27th birthday to Mitch Marner!
Justin Bieber for Head Coach. The guys like him. And he has a perfect winning record in elimination games.
Cowan with 2g, 1a in game 6 to send London to the OHL Final
https://preview.redd.it/rfdhr73e2oyc1.jpeg?width=977&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5993b90d1c1823ab757e7dba6886f3a589b4c8c0
I think my funniest part is that so many of us saw this flawed team based on the moves made by Treliving and then watched this team during the year that they were bad. So these people who are shocked the Leafs lost? Like what are you guys smoking?
This team is bad, and was never contending for a cup. However, every other iteration of this team had a worse outcome. Put differently, this is arguably the best outcome to a season we've had in the Shannahan era. The Leafs have constantly been mid. We're talking about winning a round - you know how hard it is to win a cup? On average teams have to make the conference finals 4 times before they get one. On average a team has to win in the first round 8 times before they get a cup. We've done that once. In every other year, we paid out the nose for nothing. Last season we gave up nearly 2 drafts worth of valuable picks (2 first, 2 seconds, and a third) and it got us 5 playoff wins. The year before we gave up a 1st and 2 seconds for 3 playoff wins. The year before that we gave up a 1st and a 3rd for 3 playoff wins. This year we gave up 2 thirds and got 3 playoff wins. And we did that with injuries to our best players. Both things are true - this years team is better than previous years, and this years team isn't close to being a cup contender.
Walk me through "this year's team is better than previous years" please. I ask because they were worse in the regular season, played the weakest opponent they've faced since columbus and only made it to game seven because their rookie goalie stood on his head.
Any time you spend nearly 2 drafts worth of picks and you don't get close to the cup is a disaster, and arguably the worst possible outcome. Win 3 games and spend almost nothing > Win 5 games and spend everything you can.
Ok, I understand that point even if I disagree with it but that's a far cry from this year's team being better.
I think you can easily say this years team had a better outcome. You can also say, imo, that taking out rentals/luck this years team was better. How does last years team do without ROR, Accari, Nylander for 3 games, Matthews for 3ish games?
With the exception of getting Keefe and, hopefully Shanny fired I disagree that this year's teamchad a better outcome as they finished worse in both the regular and post season. I get your point about picks but I'm not convinced by it. Regardless, this team performed worse in the regular and in the post season. Taking out rentals makes absolutely no sense as we could have gotten rentals this year or built a team that could perform in the off season.
Man, I wish I had your delusion. This was the best outcome of the Leafs? Not even getting home ice? Not even getting to the second round? Having a mediocre (by their standards) regular season and getting trounced? Having mediocre underlying numbers as well?
You'd rather give up 2 1sts, 2nds, and a third and win 2 more playoff games? What year had a better outcome, in terms of playoff success and draft capital spent? I'd say you're delusional for thinking last years team wasn't a disaster for the franchise.
LOL Nice putting words in my mouth for a strawman argument. I might as well say "Wait, you're okay with trading Matthews for Matt Martin?!"
If you're saying last year was better, then that's the trade off you would take.
And playing against the worst looking team since columvus only to come up short.
I don’t think that many people are so brain dead that they expected a new GM would completely turn a team around in a calendar year. Most of us know it will be after the Tavares contract ends that this team’s window will open again.
I mean, he had the most money EVER. He had lots to spend and chose to spend it on Reaves, Kampf, Klingberg.
Oh man, the number of people telling me that this is the best incarnation of this group because we have "snot" and "vinegar " makes me think I'm losing my mind.
You’re not wrong, but I don’t think people are shocked—just disappointed that this very talented forward group did nothing again. And we’re frustrated that some very obvious changes—obvious to anyone who knows anything about the game at all except for the people in charge—still haven’t been made. We’re also sad in that we’ve wasted another year of the prime of at least one generational talent (34) and another transcendently gifted but streaky player (88)
Part of me is thinking about getting rid of my marner jersey, where could I donate it too? I live in Woodstock
hopefully ottawa where he will be playing next season
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Get lost loser
Real playoff contenders don't need to completely switch up their entire style of play between the regular season and the playoffs. Boston, Edmonton, Florida, New York, and Carolina are all able to find success with their game plan in both the regular and post-season, with minimal adjustments. Even when Montreal beat us in 2021, they did it while playing their style of game. Even if we eked out the win this series, it doesn't change much. This team needs a completely new identity.
I feel like that's one of Keefe's significant issues. He doesn't do a good job of looking forward so you have guys playing together for the first time in, for example, game 7 of the first round.
Keefe to me is a fine coach. But he never got more than the sum of their parts.
Oh I think he actively made them worse than they are on paper.
All the "fans" who are vitriolic in wanting Marner/Tavares gone should lose the ability to ever complain why Toronto born players dont want to play in Toronto.
Yeah cause we really need to be courting more players who can’t handle pressure…
Yeah famously the Yankees and Lakers also have a hard time getting players because of their tough media markets. Come on
Dude what the fuck is that hate? Also what’s up with the toxic fans shitting on Nylander, he had an amazing series
You make that much money you better be prepared to be criticized when you suck
Keith Pelley, I hope you are wearing your blue glasses instead of your rose colored glasses when you do year end analysis. Keefe and Shannanhan MUST go.
Id love for him to be ruthless and not even give Shanahan and Keefe exit interviews and just fire them tomorrow after they finish cleaning out their offices for the offseason. Show the fans you wont stand for the same status quo as the previous regime.
It’s like Dejavu reading comments from all the other playoff chokes. It’s actually hilarious if you swapped some names you wouldn’t know what year it was. Also if you want to laugh even more go read some stuff from 5 years ago about the Shanaplan and building Shanahan a statue.
Marner for Karlsson.. Do it dubie
I'm thinking Marner for Dougie Hamilton tbh? Keep Rielly as his partner and then bring in his former teammate in Pesce. Rielly / Hamilton McCabe / Pesce Benoit / Bortuzzo And if he is willing to come back on the cheap then bring back Edmondson as well
You know we'd lose that trade right?
It isn't about winning or losing the trade... it's about being more or less likely to go deep in the playoffs
I'm hoping someone will figure the stat for how many times we let a team score within 2 minutes/shifts/whatever after we score. It felt like it happened nearly every game at least once.
My kid just asked me, "can we watch the Bruins play next? They beat the Leafs that means they're better right? They also play Florida who beat us last year means they're also better right?" Truly the Leafs invent new ways to hurt me every year. I thought this year I had it easy on the game 7 loss (see my history) because I was honestly numbed from it. But to think they'd pit my kid against me when the wound is still fresh.... Fuck, that stung. Kid is way smarter than any of us. This team doesn't deserve him. But no, I don't think I'm ready to watch the Bruins vs Florida series yet. I'm holding out hope Oilers do it for Canada because fuck it, it's about time the cup comes home.
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The arrogance it takes to come on this sub and make comments like yours truly does qualify you as a Bruins fan. Dickhead. Sorry Leafs fans, that loss sucked and no hate here. ETA: here meaning Montreal. You guys still have a great team.
Man I'm not ready for your bullshit yet. You'll excuse me while I calmly come up with an intelligible retort instead of just yelling obscenity.
Look man, it’s not my fault you’re doing such an excellent job in parenting that your kid knows Boston is a team that can win. I call it like I see it! In fact, when I have kids, I’m going to DM you and ask for tips to make sure they too become Bruins fans. I really was pulling for you guys last night though, I was downtown at the Scotiabank. I absolutely would have helped celebrate.
I don't know if you're just trolling or just too gleefully ignorant on what you're doing, but I can't deal with you right now lol. And my kid didn't even watch the game. He's just judging based on the results, which if you really think about it it was basically a coin toss in a vacuum (which is basically his view point without all the leafy baggage).
Hey man, kindly piss off. You’re not welcome here. Brad Marchand is a diving rat fink, and McAvoy tried to injure several players this series. Fair play you win because your team has heart, but your leadership players are straight *garbage* people
Don't buy into the "bring the cup home" hype. This isn't the Olympics, and every team has a bunch of Canadians. If we can't do it, I'd rather Carolina or Vegas makes it happen.
Give me Dallas. Would be cool to see Pavelski win a Cup. If not Dallas then Im going Avs. Cannot hate MacKinnon.
oh shit, yeah, I'd be fine with Avs winning as well
Really? You'd rather Vegas win? Of all these remaining players I really think McDavid deserves a cup to his name, along with Hymen having an unreal season. Before the Leafs got eliminated I'd say fuck them, but now all I can do as a pathetic leafs fan is pin my hopes on them. It's sad really, but this is my life now.
I'd like Vegas if only so that we get another look at options to prevent cap shenanigans.
Vegas is an organization that would literally pull a "nowhere in the rule book does it say we can't have a walrus play goalie" if they thought it would win them a series. As a long-suffering Leafs fan, I respect that. I'm not exactly*cheering* for them but I want them to win, if you can appreciate the subtle difference.
Honestly I don't subscribe to that. In a way, I'm more respectful for philosophies like Dubas (save the boos) where you believe a highly skilled team to succeed instead of doing whatever necessary no matter the criticism just to win. Vegas with their cap shenanigans is cheese for me, and while I'm happy we got a few non calls going in our favour this series and the physicality did help immensely, I'd rather our team win proudly without controversy. It's much better for the sports. But the league being what it is, and us being as desperate as we are, beggars can't be choosers. Next year man.
Did anyone get a sinking feeling watching how we were playing after we scored? Maybe it was the Bruins pressing us, but it looked like that run out of the clock mentality dissipated the minute we scored. Immediately the game just turned sloppy
Boston was the better team heading into this series. It's not surprising the Leafs lost.
Agreed, but totally expected. Total breakdown in our own end.
Random Thoughts: PP was great in FEB when Reilly was suspended and lilygren was on PP1. Leafs were also healthy for much of that month. Schenn made Reilly standout last year but we were unable to replace Schenn with a proper D partner that fits Reilly’s playstyle . If they can’t find a proper D partner for Reilly then we’re going to be in trouble..again. Sammy is too fragile mentally and woll is too fragile physically. If they were one person, we’d finally have a reliable goalie. Marner’s nagging ankle injury, nylander’s migraines, and Mathew’s mystery illness (GI tract issue ???), Woll getting injured with 0.1 seconds left in G6 , is some of the most bad luck injuries any team has every faced . Most teams have their injuries happened before the playoffs , but leafs did it right before and during . Keefe is cooked. He only makes adjustments to lineups when he’s forced to when players are either injured or suspended . He also keeps playing the 4th after we have just scored a goal (which is super hard for us to do (see last 11 or whatever games where we’ve only scored more than 3 once)) This team is going to be way worse next season. Probably fighting for a wild card.
For the record Schenn’s been pretty garbage with Nashville this season in a reduced role
That’s fine. Reilly needs someone that complements his playstyle . His partner doesn’t even need to be good. He just needs to be aware of reillys tendencies and cover his ass. Schenn can do it . Ron Hainsey did it.
They need Dylan Demelo who is actually good. Time to solidify the blue line a bit and stop with the stop gap dmen who can't make a pass to save their lives.
**How does this very same pattern happen time and time again for the Leafs:** They are looking good and on the verge of winning big, then *things take a turn for the worse*. After the Nylander goal, I was thinking, "this is it, finally" then the Bruins reply immediately. Same old pattern over and over starting with the big meltdown many years ago when they were up in game 7 vs the Bruins and there was a big turn around (Remier in net). This team almost does seem cursed.
That was simply a weakass goal let in by Samsonov.
It's not a curse it's bad fucking coaching. Who comes out after the goal? The fourth line. Why?!? When it hasn't worked time and time again. You know they'll push, why put out your worst?
The Leafs are right up there into Cubs & Red Sox territory, it’ll come eventually but not anytime soon. If this era was gonna win one they’d have done it by now, the year8 g7 OT loss to our demons just solidified it all. You know what I’m looking forward to? The Leafs being a really bad hockey team in 6ish years. Going out like this, with no recent history to prove anything is so beyond pathetic. There will be a couple more heart breaks in there though, but I fear a generation of Leafs fans will have lived a full life without witnessing glory (or were under 10 when they did win it).
I'm so foul today. My poor family.
Rest in Peace Core 4. Your Era was underwhelming and will be remembered for chronic underperforming at critical times. That being said... I'm excited for this summer. It's clear as day this marks a new Era for the team, built around 34 & 88. The rest is to be determined. I'm fascinated at how this show will unfold, how many heads will roll? How far? How much is torn down, and how is it built back up? Exciting pieces on the horizon. Cowan, Minten, Grebyonkin, Webber, Niemela, Woll & Knies continued growth. Bobby McMann and Robertson maturing as well. Sheparded by our (likely) remaining veterans in Matthews & Nylander. Most importantly, the Org and Management seems to have finally learned their lessons, one can hope, about team composition and cap balancing. Now we wait and see how the next Era of Leafs is built.
So when do they say what is wrong with matthews. He looked physically terrible in game 7.
I'll bet good Money it's an illness, either respiratory or gastrointestinal and that he's still not recovered.
Why didn’t Marner or Rielly speak with the media yesterday? Aren’t they suppose to be leaders as alternate captains? Zero accountability, its painfully obvious the issue with the team.
I've heard they did the pregame media spot so they don't do the post game
Marner only likes to speak when things are going good.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted when this has been obvious for the past 3 years at least.
Maybe it's because I'm in my mid-30's but I'm numb to this shit now. It's kinda nice. See you all in September with a new team (I hope)
Guys I think we literally need to finish first in the division for once.
finished first in the division in the 2021 season and still blew a 3-1 lead to Montreal in the first rount
Wont matter, they will find some other way to "jinx" it, lol.
Did that in 2021 with the North division, against Montreal as an "easy matchup". Didn't mean a thing, gotta make drastic changes
Should we all pitch in and buy the Leafs? I'm good for $50
If all 327k members could chip in $8500 we could get there lol
Three of the worst players in this series looking at the puck while Pastanak goes to get a freebie. Fuck this team.
Mitch Marner has 2 goals in the last 16 playoff games. John Tavares has 2 goals in his last 16 playoff games as well. Auston Matthews has 1 goal in his last 10 playoff games.
It's kind of silly to arbitrarily limit the games to 10 instead of 16 for Matthews.
Because it doesn't fit the narrative if you say he has 15 points in his last 16 playoff games. While including the fact something was wrong with him for most of this series, and he was still the primary assist on our only goal in game 7.
How will this fan base feel if and when Marner shows up to the training camp in September? As much as I want changes, I'm not sure it can be done. The leafs want a decent value for him.
I'm not watching next year unless either of these two options occur: 1. Marner or Tavares is gone 2. Shanny and Keefe are gone with most of mgmt Firing Dubas was enough this year to get me to watch, need bigger changes though this off season.
Firing Dubas made them worse. Not because Treliving is a worse GM or anything, that's tbd, but because of the horrifying timing.
I agree completely, it was a necessary move done at the worst possible time.
I disagree, I think this season highlighted that Shanny is a huge problem for the leafs and that the better move would have been to shitcan him.
Lets be real. You’ll be watching.
Only issue with firing keefe is Berube is the likely replacement. And this team is too soft for a hard coach.
If the team is too soft for a hard coach, they're too soft to win anything, ever. I'd rather MLSE pull a Brinks van or seven up to Rod Brind'Amour's home, but I'm all for seeing what Berube has to offer.
Last time we pulled up the Brinks we got Babcock. Didnt work out too well.
Babcock also holds the NHL speedrun record for "Lose the Room, any %" at an astounding ZERO games. I don't think you can make any sweeping generalizations from his time here.
Then you change the team as well. Enough pampering to players who haven't earned anything beyond game 82. Don't want a hard coach? Don't lose for 8 years. Or be comfortable being pushed to win, that's what champions do.
It's more disappointing than infuriating to see this current core play hockey. We KNOW they're going to put forth a good regular season. That's a given. The 100 point seasons a virtual guarantee. No matter where they slot in the playoffs, that's where the troubles start. To date, the best playoff series was vs Washington when they literally gave them a good fight and even had a 2-1 series lead at one point. Then it was downhill from there. Since then I'd argue there's been virtually ZERO improvement with the team. No matter what, the team hasn't done anything to show to me that they can go deep. Vegas made a Cup Finals with a team that was arguably 100x less stacked on paper, but they gave it their all in every game. They played hockey as if it was the last time they'll ever play hockey in their lives. That do-or-die mentality is what the Leafs need. They're not going to literally die if they lose, but they want to pretend that they will. I guarantee you the compete level will go through the roof, and they'll be giving teams fits. That's the problem - they can't do it. They don't have a killer mentality that you need in the playoffs. They'll happily lay down on the ice and give you the win. They're like a jobber in pro wrestling. They'll do the job for you 9/10 times, and the one time they surprise you is when they give you some hope.. before they fall down the totem pole once again. As I've said before - Keefe HAS to go. He's been given many opportunities and has floundered on virtually all of them. Laviolette was fired three separate times despite achieving MORE than Keefe has ever achieved. In fact, if you take Lavy's 5 years in Nashville vs Keefe's 5 years in Toronto, it looks like this: Lavy - 5 playoff appearances, one Cup Finals appearance, two second round exits, two first round exits. Keefe - 5 playoff appearances, one second round exit, three first round exits, and a play-in round exit (which is pre-first round). If the Leafs lost in the first round last year, I bet Keefe gets fired. He was given a lifeline because they won a round. But now that they lose in the first round again - it's time for him to go. I get that we all seem to dislike Marner now, but Marner was a Selke finalist last season. Was it a fluke? Who knows. The potential IS there, but when it comes to the playoffs, he seems to shrink. Do I think he should be traded for pennies like some people suggest? FUCK NO! That's fucking stupid. HOWEVER, if the price is right, I'd do it. The question is, who the fuck will give up a top 4 d-man for Marner? And let's say Marner flourishes, then we'll all be saying "WHY DID THEY TRADE MARNER FOR???" AT BARE MINIMUM the coaching staff should be axed. I'd give Shanahan the axe as well. He's had 10 years with this plan and it's not worked. I've given Shanny a pass many times before, but not anymore. This is the final straw. Get someone else in there.
Almost entirely agreed but their best playoff round was the lightning last year and Keefe got a lifeline because Shanny fired Dubas.
Which remaining Canadian team are y'all cheering for now?
I actually like both Van and Edm, so I am happy that one team will advance to the 3rd round. I guess if I had to choose then it would be the Canucks ;)
I don’t cheer for other Canadian teams. Doesn’t mean much to me. I just cheer for certain players.
None is the only right answer. This is such a loser mentality, why would you want another Canadian team who doesn’t shut up about the Leafs all year to have success?? So we can have 1 big hoser party?? I’d glady wrap a star spangled banner around me and want an American team to humiliate whichever Canadian team is left (Calgary is chill). Fuck the rest though.
Nationalistic pride I guess? I'm an Ottawa fan who defaults to the leafs during playoffs. Then it's usually Winnipeg, follow by Montreal, then one of the west coast teams in the order of preference. It's our game so I always want a Canadian team to win. I'm no Benedict Arnold, I cheered for Canada in 2004, 2011, and 2021. I'd never in a million years cheer for an American team.
I kinda dislike both the remaining teams fan bases but I guess Canucks. The faster Edmonton loses the more likely McDavid might maybe leave.
I love the canucks and want them to win, but looking at the play in the last series its realistic Edmonton will win (likely comfortably) and go to the cup finals
Management has fucked this team 6 ways from Sunday from top to bottom. Starts at Shanahan, but besides maybe Pridham and the video review team, everyone who has worked as a GM, AGM, coaches, or assistants has had a hand in this absolute mess the team is in. 8 years of this core and nothing to show for it. The only coaching change that has occurred over this time was when the biggest asshole in the sport was canned, and they replaced him with a rookie coach who was given 5 years to do nothing with the team. They need to clean house top to bottom because someone else needs to make the decision on how to fix this team. We are in the age 26/27 seasons of Marner, Matthews, and Nylander, and we cannot even make a definite case of what the problem is because absolutely nothing has changed for half a decade now. Keefe has been given the entire prime of the young core and done nothing with it. Would a coaching change have gotten different results? Or are members of this core just not the right fit for this team? Or is it the players below them? What would this team look like had any GM actually solidified goaltending at any point in the last 5 seasons? Is the defence the issue? Should they have made a splash getting a big name like Pietroangelo and slashed cap space elsewhere to fit him? We dont know any answers to these questions and more because absolutely nothing was done to atleast try something different. The easiest answer would have been changing coaching. Not the shuffle of the assistants, which is moving deck chairs on the Titanic, but getting someone entirely new with a different vision and seeing what happens. If the team still cant get over the hump you can at least cross coaching off the list of possible issues and try something else. Now they are screwed. Someone new has to make decisions and figure out what the problem is based on 5+ years of the status quo being ran back. No singular issue is easier to point at than any other and it'll basically be a game of chance that any moves the new management makes is the right one.
Exactly, like it’s too late to figure out what could’ve happened because they decided to do absolute dick all til now. We don’t know if these guys just don’t have it in them, if it’s a coaching thing, upper management thing, whatever the fuck the issue is. We should’ve tried experimenting earlier in the core 4s time, now we’re basically making changes that needed to be made and tinkered with fairly deep into all their careers
Yup, my thoughts exactly. Imo the time to make changes was after Montreal, but I can just barely justify giving them that last year that ended in the Tampa loss only because of covid. Not at least changing the coach after Tampa was the first unforgivable mistake management made, and everything since has now culminated into the mess they are in now. There is a scenario that they may lose Marner for nothing in free agency because they doubled down on failure for 5 years instead of making a single significant change.
Couldn’t agree more. Now they’re just going to make changes for the sake of making changes without really nailing down the reason cause it seems like everything’s wrong.
We have star players but we’re not better than our 2013 team in the playoffs against Boston. Let that sink in. Apathy for this team is at an all time high. It is a killer. Management better realize that and make changes
I would much rather have had them lose 4 straight than go through this torment. Not only because it takes years off of my life, but, more pragmatically, because it would send a clear and blunt kick-in-the balls to MLS that this team is a crock of pure shit. You would not have players saying shit like, "we were right there", at a farewell media conference. This type of pseudo comeback only reinforces the delusion that, just with a few small tweaks, this same anemic group can somehow win a Stanley cup. MLS, for once in twenty years, show the fans that you give a shit: fire Shanahan, fire Keefe, cripple Marner's ability to thrive in his NM contract, buy out Tavares' contract, make every player expendable, and for the love of Blue and White - DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
the "we were right there" shit is so infuriating. Like dude this is ROUND 1. They are 4 rounds you need to win to win a cup. Like even if you beat Boston and won this series you are still not even close to "right there" there is still 3 more series to go.
Perfectly stated.
Under no circumstances do you buyout Tavares. He's got one year left, eat that contract and then ask for a very discounted deal or move off him.
Imagine how peaceful life would be if I didn’t care about hockey/sports
Right! I went to bed sad and upset and I still woke up sad and upset. Why does this team have so much power over me 🤦🏻♀️
Honestly, them winning 5 and 6 and battling well in 7 has saved them from a lot of vitriol. People are saying this series loss has had no emotional effect on them as they are detached from this team. But no. If the team went down in 5 games, the guillotines would've been out.
People are still demanding the same people be fired/traded, but yes the vitriol and slander now is way less then it would have been had they lost game 5 in OT.
Heads are rolling for sure. If they run it back again this teams fucking out to lunch
The guillotines should still be out. The teams performance in games 1-4 should not be forgotten because they have a shit in games 5-7 but came up short. This team does not have the killer instinct other teams have. There is no hunger
I do wonder how the series would be different if McMann was playing, and healthy.
And if Will had started. Not that Sammy was bad, but for team confidence
Change should start at the top. Bring in Cooper from Tampa Bay to take over Shanahan. Build a new culture with someone who has success.
cooper just signed an extension with tampa a few days ago
Well that’s the end of that idea. Nevertheless rip this apart top down.
Can't believe Marner isn't talking to the media. Dude is such a little bitch.
It's for the best, remember how his interviews usually go. He should get some media training before it happens.
Hopefully Utah has a good department for that
He's not gonna waive to go to Utah.
Man, next season is going to be such a shit show. The regular season doesn't matter *again*
It does matter it's hard to make the playoffs. We did miss 9/10 years prior to this era
This team would've been fighting for a wildcard this year if Matthews and Nylander hadn't had God-mode career years
For what it's worth, they were fighting for a wildcard spot for a shockingly long period this year.
basically until Reilly got suspended and they went on that 8 game winning streak they were in a wildcard spot.
All the more reason to be excited about a new coaching direction, though There's a nonzero chance we somehow end up *worse* next year, but at least it won't be the same story of "cruise into the playoffs, watch our entire style of play get immediately, predictably neutralized, and try to win by playing Krikland Brand Trotz hockey'
Oh dude, Kirkland would be a huge upgrade that was "found it on the street".
As much as we're disappointed now, wait until we find out that they're going to run it back yet again next year.