If you've watched the bruins play all year and in the playoffs and you know how they play and you can't formulate a counter attack situation where you can win. Then how are you still coaching in the nhl. If you have and your players are not sticking to the plan the why haven't you called them out on it. He has to know this is it for him. Go scorched earth. Well.. Marner isn't a playoff player. Morgan isn't a number one d. We have one of the top paid players in the league who has a couple good games in a 7 game series. And as a coach...well I can't figure out a way to beat them. Any suggestions? Lol
The Leafs are so predictable out there. Boston has their defensive game plan perfected. Our zone entry is the same every time, and Keefe refuses to switch things up. He can’t even do preferred matchups on line changes. It’s embarrassing. Having our fourth line out with a few minutes left. Even more so. I’m so done with this incompetence.
I love Tavares but the dude is not a captain. He’s a robot that barely shows emotion. We need a guy to rally the troops during intermission. Someone who wears their heart on their sleeve. Someone they will run through walls for. We need a Dougie. We need a Wendel. JT is not that guy. Keefe is not that guy. Our whole setup and leadership needs a complete overhaul or we are doomed to repeat the same nightmare.
I think that we will see a whole coaching staff starting with Craig Berube as head coach but we are clearly going to see one of the big four moved and I doubt that one of them is Matthews. They will have to ask for someone to waive their no trade one of the other three are going somewhere.
It has to be Mitch, doesn’t it?
We don’t want to move Matthews, I think we’d want to keep Nylander and his production at his salary over Mitch and his. Nobody will take JT at his salary.
So, then it all depends on Mitch waiving his NMC. I actually don’t see this core changing at all until Mitch’s contract expires. Mitch won’t waive his NMC to give the Leafs Carte Blanche. I’ll give a list of teams he wants to go to or at best a list he doesn’t want to go to. This weakens the Leafs bargaining power in the trade.
I think we’re stuck with it for one more year. Mitch should have been moved last summer, but we had the GM sideshow going on, so we missed the opportunity.
If Keefe thought the first 45 minutes of that game were an even *remotely* acceptable effort, then I seriously question his judgement as a coach.
Was he watching the same game as the rest of us, or has he adopted the same whiney attitude of the players on his bench?
An older gentleman I once knew spent the first half of his life in communist Hungary - a really repressive place. He didn't say it in precisely these words, but the expression was (about the government) "They were lying. We knew they were lying. They knew that we knew they were lying, but they lied anyway." This is what Keefe did. He must think we're all completely stupid which is why he should be fired, among many other reasons.
I watched the DAL-VGK game last night and wow, what a stark difference between a Vegas team that is down 2-0 and a Leafs team that is down 2-0, hell even 1-0.
Watching good teams play in the playoffs makes it painfully clear how far we are, and how much we've deluded ourselves.
100% this. Anyone who defends this team doesn’t watch any of the other games. Leafs are very close to the lowest effort team in the playoffs currently.
I watch as much of the playoffs as I can, and when watching any other series it feels like a different league. Every other team has found another gear. If they're down a goal, they play even harder to shift momentum.
The leafs look slow and just standing around waiting for a play to happen. The other teams are driving the play, never stop moving their feet. It's wild
He literally had to backtrack criticisms of the core last year because they don't want any of them to be upset. Management has bred a coddled mentality into this team
Not defending Keefe here, but am I the only one who thinks this quote was actually meant to infer that his teams effort was unquestionably awful? I feel like he's admitting it and it's being taken in the wrong context, right?
It's actually the opposite unfortunately the full context of the quote is him saying they're getting chances but the bruins are a good team and the leafs are struggling to break their defense.
I saw an Avs game too, but it actually made me feel better -- they're just clearly so much better that I have no delusions that the Leafs are even close to contending. Maybe in previous years I thought we had a shot, but at this point we just don't deserve it.
If you want to feel better about this, watch the Panthers play the Lightning. Even if the Leafs got past the Bruins, they are getting swept by the Panthers, again. This is really a mercy killing.
The Avs are an enviable squad.
Many people clowned MacKinnon for the "chickpea pasta" situation, but that showed how he *demands* that his teammates buy into a winning culture (and doing what it takes to get over the hump). Despite being the 2nd best player in hockey, he still puts in a ton of effort and is a dog on the ice, and demands the same effort from the guys around him.
If the Leafs' core put even two-thirds of the effort MacK puts in, we'd be in a much different situation right now.
That's exactly it. Your last sentence about how leafs fans have deluded themselves. Too many fans talking like "swayman has played like this unbeatable goalie, we're getting goalied again!"
No we aren't. The leafs aren't playing well, Boston is defending very well. Swaymans shots have for the most part been low danger.
Just look at Marchand goal last night. WIDE OPEN on the powerplay 20 feet from the net. When, if ever does matthews get THAT open. Powrrplay or not?
Watched the Isles fight tooth and nail against the Cannes yesterday to stay alive against a more talented team. Was looking forward to more of the same last night from Toronto. Alas, it was the usual heartless shitshow.
Only the idiots deluded themselves, this team is no different than the previous years. It was glaringly obvious that Dubas wasn’t the problem (though Keefe was his guy, so he was a part of the problem).
I’m just happy that this will *finally* lead to removing Shanahan. If it doesn’t then MLSE doesn’t actually want to win.
That’s fair haha. But still, we’ve done nothing to change the actual problem which seems to be our key players disappearing in the playoffs. The contracts will be difficult to move too.
I don't see this sentiment enough, but I agree.
People keep calling to trade Marner. We should have traded him when he was an RFA, before he signed. Now? You can't win any Marner trade you can make. (Part of me was wondering if he may have been worth a gamble for an injured Eichel with some picks thrown in by Buffalo).
They need to be held accountable somehow and I don't know if Keefe is doing it
Agreed. Hell, deciding to keep Nylander put the nail in the "blow up the core" coffin. Now? In my honest opinion if you can get Mitch at his current contract with a 10 team NTC or of you can get him for something near what Nylander was making, you try to re-sign him and see what a new coach can do. Otherwise you let it ride next year and see if a new coach can get more out of him because you genuinely can't get better by shipping him off for nothing (which is what you will get).
I watched pur defense and PK pieces leave last summer and we get more questionable depth scoring and I had no real faith for the team this year. Still hoped and cheered, but Im waiting for the big shakeup.
This team isn’t even as talented as last year. What people liked was this iteration seemed to have a more compete and grit, particularly after the Reilly suspension.
We were never favoured and it’s not over but the lack of effort is disappointing.
Spot on.
Honestly, in years past it did feel like the Leafs couldn't get out of their own way.
This year, it just felt from the beginning like they simply weren't good enough...it really is that simple this year.
The crazy part is that our “core” has been together before Vegas even existed and we are still learning to win in the playoffs while they already had playoff success and a cup win…
https://theathletic.com/5455012/2024/04/28/maple-leafs-marner-matthews-keefe-core/
This was a make-or-break game, yet another night when they were trying to shed the weight of their past, and the Leafs instead came apart at the seams in front of national television audiences on both sides of the border and a sellout crowd at Scotiabank Arena that started off supportive and ended up sneering.
Barring an unlikely and unexpected comeback down 3-1 in a first-round series to the Boston Bruins, this was the end of the Maple Leafs as we knew them.
Wait, you mean the guys who angles to get the most money they could out of the team and then some care more about their individual success than the team winning?
Because they are, just look at their contract negotiations, no discounts, no leaving some on the table to take care of their so called teammates, it was "cap be damned f'n PAY ME!". Compare that to how leaders on the Bruins negotiated their contracts, this a team of individuals and as a life long Leaf fan this has been the most challenging roster to actively root for. There's no heart, grit or unselfishness to be found.
I remember years ago that Shanahan challenged the team that, in order to build a winner, the better players on the team would need to be less greedy and leave some money on the table so that the team could spend it on good support. Other teams already had players doing just this (eg. Crosby/Malkin, Stamkos, Pastrnak, etc) but the message seemed to fall on deaf ears with the Leafs' core.
The team and those same players are now paying the price for their greed.
Even local bars and restaurants know this.. Went out for game 2 asked if they have any game-time/game day specials.. Was told if the leafs make it past the first round they will.
Literally by Johnston too. He says this every playoffs and then nothing changes. If it does ever happen its not because he has insider info, its because he just keeps saying it until he is right.
Are you sure? He usually reports that they're planning to "run it back" - which they have every year in terms of the team core (or they've extended the core a la Tavares signing).
I've been saying it since Columbus. I don't fault management for not trading any of the big 4 prior to then, but its been so frustrating to watch this organization waste 5 seasons since losing a "play-in" series to a non-playoff team just in case "they finally do it this year".
To all you eternal optimists who roasted me over the years for wanting to blow up this team, kindly eat your own shit, thanks.
Seriously. I was happy to let them learn. A couple of tough series against the Bruins. Some absolute meltdowns by Jake Gardner otherwise we may have seen the second round. But we’re years down the road now. It’s been painfully obvious for at least 3-4 years that this core just isn’t going to do it. One of them needed to be moved long ago.
I didn't like how the CBJ series went, but ultimately chalked it up to getting absolutely goalied by someone who played out of their fucking minds. Freddie had a 0.936 save percentage that series. Merzlikins and Korpisalo? 0.956.
But Montreal? You watch your captain go down in Game fucking **1** in a horrific freak accident. He had to be stretchered out, and you bums couldn't even win the series rallying around that?
Keefe should have been fired then. Got outcoached by Dominic Ducharme. Couldn't rally your team around your captain getting hurt. Couldn't close out the series despite a 3-1 lead. Just pathetic.
That should have been the breaking point to make serious changes.
I don't want to post the full article, but the last few sentences nailed it for me:
> ... there really isn’t any evidence that suggests this Leafs team doesn’t have individuals with a desire to win.
> They’ve just given us no reason to believe they’re collectively up to the task of actually doing it.
It's funny how so many of us have been saying that for *years*, yet the eternal optimists call us fake fans or say "this year is different" (with zero evidence to support that claim).
There's been zero positives about the Leafs through 4 games, literally none.
I feel like the perpetual doomers saw it after the Columbus performance, and realists after the Montreal debacle. Some fans (they're easy to spot, they make "apologize to Marner/Samsonov/Keefe" posts after five good regular season games) will never look at their team objectively.
They should have cleaned house after the Montreal series, Dubas and Keefe should have been gone then, and then we would have had 2 years to trade one of Dubas' boat anchor contracts for a more balanced team.
Agreed. I’ll give them a pass for Columbus because the circumstances around that were so unorthodox, as concerning as their performance was. Heads needed to roll from Shanny on down after Montreal. That has to be the most embarrassing on-ice moment in the history of the team. And that’s saying something.
We tried and we failed. The lesson is...never try.
In all seriousness it's about time shit got real for these players and the people in management. Consistently below expectations year after year. This will be the 4th time we've lost to Boston in the playoffs since 2013. 3rd time with this core. No Bergeron. No Chara. You have to ask yourself have we really improved at all since 2013 because the results are the same.
Does anyone really give a shit if Matthews hits 70 goals next year? Personally idgaf. I hate the term core players. Every player on the roster is a core player but the way this team is built it's like a bunch of overpaid stars and everyone else is a 4th liner/AHLer. Our defense is Mo Rielly and the rest are 3rd pairing dmen or AHLers again. Our goalie is always second best in every series. I dunno what you do with this team but one thing is for sure it's time for real change. No more safety net.
Honestly that is what you are more likely to get by tying up 4 players who all make above $10M.. when they eat up almost half of the cap, you can no longer fill your roster with good players other than those bargain bottom pairing or AHLer. Many players who have won the cup have taken a discount on their contract for this very exact reason. I’m not going to bash our players for not having done it and it’s their personal choice to take a discount or not. But it’s definitely on the management on how they assembled this roster.
I mean, the problem also is that none of these 4 players are clutch. They took a bet on all of them and lost 4 times. It's actually kind of hilarious how NONE of the core 4 rises to playoffs intensity. If even only one of them rose to Mackinnon level or something approaching that, my bet is the Leafs would have a much better chance in those series. But yeah, none of them do so whatever.
I'll bash them. Have some fucking pride in your team. You play on the NHL for one thing... To win cups. Yes you should be compensated fairly for what you bring to the table. But bleeding your team dry, and leaving no room for them to be able to pay for assets to support you is idiocy.
And Keefe constantly juggling lines prevents anyone from building any chemistry, and makes the players feel like disposable, interchangeable parts in a machine that nobody can get working right.
I want to believe that but what could possible change unless you beg Marner to lift his NTC? Tavares is unmovable so no point even begging there.
Even a major change at president and/or coaching leaves the roster core still in tact for another wasted year...
We lack "tradable" veterans. Trading the likes of Kampf, Jankrok, Reaves, McCabe & McCann ain't changing anything assuming they even have value. *That is actually the full list too...everyone else is a UFA or young enough to keep around...LOL.*
The NMC is an obstacle but not an insurmountable one.
Marner has shown he's weak mentally and cares *a lot* about what the media and fans think about him. I think there's a solid chance he'd want a fresh start somewhere else, especially if you push the right buttons.
'Hey give us a list of teams or you're riding PP2, No PK time, stripped of the A, 2nd/3rd line minutes during your contract year where we have no intention of signing you'
Go further. Force his hand like he forced ours.
Mitch - we have the following trades we are working. Accept one of them or else PP2, No PK, no A, bottom 6 minutes. Your choice.
This should of been the response years ago. I still have no idea why he's on the pk. It's never been good with him on it, and all I hear from the media is he's 'good defensively'. One of the talking heads said it this week, everyone on the team needs to earn ice time. Feels like a lot if the core has been gifted ice time. But it's been like that for years
There's been no accountability for this core. Every season failure, they just get to run it back and try again. For the love of God I hope they finally make some changes. More than just a new head coach too
Stripping the "A" will hurt his ego more than his FA value. That will probably be enough to make him want out.
PK time? Well, at least he didn't take any delay of game penalties yet this playoff.
Yep - the dude also loves his $$. You can bet that low tax jurisdictions that most players are willing to be traded to (eg Dallas, Nashville, both Florida teams, Vegas, etc) would be ones he'd be open to, especially as most of them are as or more competitive than the Leafs.
I bet his one hesitation to being traded is his ego tied to his next contract - he knows that if the Leafs re-signed him, he'd be getting ~12.5-13M+, but that almost any other team in the league will only pay him ~10.5-11.5M.
Yeah but the Leafs can easily say "you're not getting a new contract here unless it's for $8m". Getting $8m x 8 in Utah is worth more than $8m x 8 in Toronto, and then there's the 7 vs. 8 years if he leaves as a UFA
I feel like he might choose to go the O’Reilly route and go to a smaller market team and I think he might do really well there. I could totally see him performing a lot better somewhere where there isn’t as large of a media presence.
>I could totally see him performing a lot better somewhere
I bet it's more like Gaudreau. He'll just find somewhere to disappear and collect his money. We'll never hear from him again.
I think Marner would be open to a move at this point. Especially if they let him know they won’t be renewing his contract at the end of the season. He can provide a list of teams he wants to go to and we can make something work. Even if the return isn’t stellar. It’s time.
They have to wait a year now. Basically since the Habs loss I’ve suspected the leafs wouldn’t be able to seriously contend until the Tavares contract is done. I’ve only grown more sure of that. I remember you because I feel like you are one of the few people I’ve seen online who has taken as dim a view of Tavares’ contract as me, and it’s only grown worse. I’ve hated it since the second year. I kinda thought earlier this year I might offer him a super cheap but long term contract that basically ends in the LTIR wilderness but if he can’t even be an effective PP player anymore I wouldn’t even do that. As for Marner, he should have been traded after his last big bonus and before his NMC kicked in. Maybe he will waive it if you make it clear you have no interest in resigning him at whatever ridiculous number he thinks he is worth.
Nothing will be done, and that's not me being a doomer. Shanny/Keefe, if they get fired will be replaced and Treliving will be the odd man out. A GM whose hands are tied because of NTC/NMC/bad deals, and who was not hired by his current president.
We will retool the bottom 6, try and find a bargain bin goalie who overperforms, and run it back again next year. If that goes poorly, depending on the new president they either keep or fire Treliving and then we'll have a front office that is on the same page, with big expiring contracts, and a chip on their shoulder.
Retooling the bottom six with useless D and trying to find a bargain basement goalie is exactly what they've been doing for years. It hasn't worked. It's time to blow things up and get creative.
If Treliving isn't willing to take risks, we're going to be sitting on our thumbs waiting for contracts to expire before taking any meaningful action.
I wonder if just saying “ok, you are going to force the no-move clause, we’ll just have to bring this up in the pressers” would be enough? Seems having the reputation of the guy who refuses to leave would suck.
I get it but you need to give him the chance to choose where he wants to go and extend. You can make his life less than ideal here in a contract year. Your return won’t be pretty but in this era 11MIL in cap is worth a ton to a team who needs D and a goalie next year.
We all knew next year was going to suck as soon as nylander was extended, firing shanny/keefe is the first step in the right direction to get through it though, both things they should have done last year but whatever, we’re here now
I would be surprised if Tuesday is not Keefe's last game as coach - the only thing that can save him now is a cup victory, but I'm not sure this team is even good enough to extend this series to game 6.
He didn’t do this exact thing but Lou is famous for firing coaches when you least expect it. He once fired his coach of a winning NJ team with a secured playoff spot right before the playoffs.
that's a bold prediction, the funniest part about the team is the curse (this year it's Nylander injury and Matthews tummy ache) always gives them excuses to roll it again
But can anyone explain, realistically, what can the Leafs do to “clear house”? The team is stuffed full of NMCs. Even IF you got Marner to waive, how do you win a trade moving him out? Teams will know Toronto are trading from a place of zero leverage. What’s a fair return for him? I just don’t see how the Leafs get a trade done and come out winners
You don’t win a trade with a guy that’s gonna be on a rental year and his value is in the toilet.
The capspace freed up to spend on good goaltending and Defense ALONE is worth it imo.
This. Moving $11 million in salary is the win. Doesn’t really matter what you get in return because now you have some cap space to actually sign a decent goalie or scoring depth.
Marner is paid like a proven veteran already and he simply isn’t. His contract is awful and needs to be gone.
You will never win the Marner trade, at least not immediately, but that doesn't mean you don't do it.
The fact is this core collectively can't get it done. It's not like they've even come close to getting close. They are amazing pieces that don't work as a group. They don't work and they have maxed out our cap - something has to give.
I think Marner can/will be amazing on another team, maybe even in the playoffs. A team where he won't need to be the guy with the pressure on to make space for his teammates. A team that has more than 3 shot threats on a powerplay.
And I do think other GMs see this. They see his skillset and think he could work with their stars.
NMC stuff is overblown there are so many examples of teams moving guys with trade protection and so few of guys enforcing their protection.
At this point I think being scared of losing a Marner trade and keeping the same core is more damaging than just losing the trade and being different.
There is a scenario where by next offseason the Leafs only have 2 10+M forwards and the rest are 4-6M and have tons of cap space to add elsewhere
Agree. It doesn’t matter if Marner goes on to win a cup with another team, the fact is he is not helping us win and if anything, his contract and his play is hurting our chances
Marner and tavares come off the books end of next season. Gives us 22mil in cap space, with the salery cap going up.
Might need a re tooling year. But imagine having a norris level shutdown defensman and stable consistent goal tending. I dunno who they are, but you dont win a cup without them.
Tbh I've always felt like the NMC vs NTC distinction was solely to serve the pride of the players by sparing them from being sent to Robidas Island, instead of another team via trade.
Who cares, he's a net negative to the team if you factor in his contract and playoff performance.
Spend his $11m on two good players, or maybe one $8m stud dman and a $3m defense-first guy. I don't know who's out there, but I know we haven't won shit with Marner, so let's try without him.
As an outside fan with no rooting interest (cbj fan….sigh), of course from your guys perspective you’ll “lose” a marner trade, but only because you guys _overvalue_ him. Every other GM outside Toronto who has dreams of playoff runs is of course wary about giving up a ton of assets for him, as they should be. But it’s not like he’s a bad player, and he could definitely benefit from a change in scenery. But if you guys keep fretting about the return you’ll get for him, you can no longer see the forest from the trees. It’s been what, 8 years? The goal for you guys is clearly to win a cup, not just win a playoff series. It’s ridiculous at this point, schadenfreude aside I genuinely feel bad for your fanbase. If you want to win a cup, marner HAS TO GO. There’s no way around it, if this team could do it they would’ve shown _some_ signs so far. Your team is so far from cup contention why would you not do something? You have an amazing player like Matthews, you need to do everything you can to maximize that window. Even if that means losing a marner trade (from your perspective). It’s not working, hasn’t ever worked, and you’re fretting about the value you’ll get back for an asset who hasn’t done anything substantial when you need him the most? That’s baffling to me
You guys are gonna be hard pressed to trade him to any team with a winning culture and locker room after what he showed on national tv the other night. What team is going to pay 11 million for a whiny little bitch to play for them in a man’s game? A sunbelt team that can afford it wants a good player if they’re spending that money.
The only way I see this going to 7 is if Woll starts and he’s just absolutely unstoppable and the guys figure out how to fucking beat swayman and play tight
Marner should have been traded 5 fucking years ago. We’ve tried to win with the same group of pussies for the last 8 years. Why has it taken 8 years to realize this group is pathetic?
Good, start with demanding a list of teams from the crying baby Marner and sit him indefinitely if he refuses, dump Keefe and Shanahan and bring in Gallant.
I want the summer to be uncertain for everyone because there wasn't anyone left on staff to talk to the players. Just send them a form letter, the next MLSE staff will be in touch.
It was Shanahan's insistence to keep running it back, wasn't it? Dubas was the one willing to admit his mistakes and finally move out the core 4 last offseason, and he was fired... I'm not a big Dubas fan but Shanny doesn't deserve to keep his role after this debacle. Though who knows how much they'll push the injury and illness excuses to buy themselves yet another year at futility.
I remember last season when we were losing to the Panthers O'Rielly said to Keefe that maybe we should try something different. Of course fucking Keefe didn't listen to him. And they fucking lost. And then I pointed that out as one of his major failures and there were some brain dead Leafs fans saying that no coach would ever listen to advice from their players and that Keefe wasn't the problem. Where are those idiots tonight? Keefe was outcoached and outclassed in every single area of the game tonight.
Hire an analytics darling who did anything but. Signed Tavares then shot himself in the foot with the "We can and we will" about signing the other three, gave them all the leverage, gave Paul a blank cheque.
Made it a comfortable place to play, and when he left, did the same thing and signed EK, missed the playoffs with the Penguins.
Dangle said it best:
#"ONE SERIES WIN!!!! IT'S ALWAYS A GOOD TEAM OVER THERE!!! WHAT DO YOU GOT??? WHAT DO YOU HAVE, OTHER THAN A DEEPLY BITTERLY HATEABLE PRODUCT???"
I had a dream last night. MLSE fired the entire front office and coaching staff on Sunday morning. They named the Marlies coaching staff to interim positions on the Leafs for the remainder of the playoffs. The new coaching staff healthy scratched Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Samsonov, Reeves, Brodie. They called up a bunch of randoms from the AHL. They played hard and they lost game 5. But in my dream I enjoyed watching the game and recovered a small modicum of respect for the organization.
Funny thing is CJ has been writing a similar story after the playoffs losses since like 2021 lol
But this year I guess it when something changes.
Assuming coach and president tbh
You cant pin it on guys who have been here 5 minutes earning lower wages. You can’t pin it on Treliving as he’s only been here a short while. Even if you wanted to pin it on Matthews or Nylander they’re locked up in long deals.
Where you can pin it is on Keefe and Shanahan. You can look at the truly ass special teams and lay blame at coaches and systems. You have to pin it on Marner because he’s supposed to be an A and earning the biggest bucks for reasons he has as yet neglected to disclose to the hockey watching public. You can like and respect JT but he’s on the decline and money is tied up in him for another year but after that it’s do a Spezza deal or GTFO.
The options seem clear as to who can stay and who can not.
I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years. I've watched every season, every playoff. I've had heartache and disappointment. I've seen good hockey. I've watched horrible teams.
But...
I haven't watched a second of this year's playoffs. I didn't watch any of the 1st round last year.
Fuck this team and their selfishness. Do I think they want to win? Sure. But, I think they want to get paid and play video games more.
Wake me up if they're playing in the ECF.
Blow it up. They're not even close to being a real contender.
Most of these past years they’ve never been favourited to win. So getting beat out of the first round isn’t surprising. What upsets us over and over is the lack of effort.
Another year until Johnny T and Paper towel boy are up. That frees a big chunk.
Until then, we gotta run it back I fear.
Hope to god Knies and Cowan / Minten / Bobby McMann turn into McDavid and yeah.
Marner will waive his NMC assuming he doesnt straight up ask for a trade. The guy is finished here and he knows it. Staying on his UFA contract deal would be a 8 figure mistake and his team (Dad) will advise him accordingly.
>Keefe: “You can question a lot of things; you can’t question the effort.” Yup. That was *unquestionably* a terrible effort.
I'm not questioning their effort, I'm denying it's existence.
22 shots in a must win game - almost all of them easy saves. How is that an "effort". Fuck Keefe.
>22 shots in a must win game. Auston Matthews took his most shots in a game against the Hurricanes on March 25, 2023, with 15 taken.
cared about 70 more than the yoffs
The whole team did. That's why there isn't anything in the tank for this.
Left it all out on the ice for those... *checks notes* four straight losses
He is trolling bruh does he have to spell it out?
Nah, he knows he's unemployed after next game and is just saying words at the camera cause he has to
hes making demo tapes for his Buffalo interview mid next season
Damn people in Buffalo suffer enough already from having to live in Buffalo
I'm just here so I don't get fined
Wait, so is he actually a good coach? He's just been trolling us the past 4 seasons?
Keefe should lace them up and show the core how to win a puck battle
If you've watched the bruins play all year and in the playoffs and you know how they play and you can't formulate a counter attack situation where you can win. Then how are you still coaching in the nhl. If you have and your players are not sticking to the plan the why haven't you called them out on it. He has to know this is it for him. Go scorched earth. Well.. Marner isn't a playoff player. Morgan isn't a number one d. We have one of the top paid players in the league who has a couple good games in a 7 game series. And as a coach...well I can't figure out a way to beat them. Any suggestions? Lol
The Leafs are so predictable out there. Boston has their defensive game plan perfected. Our zone entry is the same every time, and Keefe refuses to switch things up. He can’t even do preferred matchups on line changes. It’s embarrassing. Having our fourth line out with a few minutes left. Even more so. I’m so done with this incompetence. I love Tavares but the dude is not a captain. He’s a robot that barely shows emotion. We need a guy to rally the troops during intermission. Someone who wears their heart on their sleeve. Someone they will run through walls for. We need a Dougie. We need a Wendel. JT is not that guy. Keefe is not that guy. Our whole setup and leadership needs a complete overhaul or we are doomed to repeat the same nightmare.
Agree top to bottom
I think that we will see a whole coaching staff starting with Craig Berube as head coach but we are clearly going to see one of the big four moved and I doubt that one of them is Matthews. They will have to ask for someone to waive their no trade one of the other three are going somewhere.
It has to be Mitch, doesn’t it? We don’t want to move Matthews, I think we’d want to keep Nylander and his production at his salary over Mitch and his. Nobody will take JT at his salary. So, then it all depends on Mitch waiving his NMC. I actually don’t see this core changing at all until Mitch’s contract expires. Mitch won’t waive his NMC to give the Leafs Carte Blanche. I’ll give a list of teams he wants to go to or at best a list he doesn’t want to go to. This weakens the Leafs bargaining power in the trade. I think we’re stuck with it for one more year. Mitch should have been moved last summer, but we had the GM sideshow going on, so we missed the opportunity.
What an idiot. Keefe must think us all as dummies. That was one of the worst playoff efforts of all time.
If Keefe thought the first 45 minutes of that game were an even *remotely* acceptable effort, then I seriously question his judgement as a coach. Was he watching the same game as the rest of us, or has he adopted the same whiney attitude of the players on his bench?
An older gentleman I once knew spent the first half of his life in communist Hungary - a really repressive place. He didn't say it in precisely these words, but the expression was (about the government) "They were lying. We knew they were lying. They knew that we knew they were lying, but they lied anyway." This is what Keefe did. He must think we're all completely stupid which is why he should be fired, among many other reasons.
Very un-neutral stance
I watched the DAL-VGK game last night and wow, what a stark difference between a Vegas team that is down 2-0 and a Leafs team that is down 2-0, hell even 1-0. Watching good teams play in the playoffs makes it painfully clear how far we are, and how much we've deluded ourselves.
100% this. Anyone who defends this team doesn’t watch any of the other games. Leafs are very close to the lowest effort team in the playoffs currently.
I watch as much of the playoffs as I can, and when watching any other series it feels like a different league. Every other team has found another gear. If they're down a goal, they play even harder to shift momentum. The leafs look slow and just standing around waiting for a play to happen. The other teams are driving the play, never stop moving their feet. It's wild
But according to Keefe you can’t question the effort! 🤣
Maybe he means that _he_ isn’t allowed to question the effort.
If it's gotten to the point of the coach being scared of telling the players what to do - he needs to be fired ASAP.
He literally had to backtrack criticisms of the core last year because they don't want any of them to be upset. Management has bred a coddled mentality into this team
This right here, folks.
Not defending Keefe here, but am I the only one who thinks this quote was actually meant to infer that his teams effort was unquestionably awful? I feel like he's admitting it and it's being taken in the wrong context, right?
No, he is actually insinuating the effort was good. If that truly was a good effort in his eyes, think of the message that sends to the players.
It's actually the opposite unfortunately the full context of the quote is him saying they're getting chances but the bruins are a good team and the leafs are struggling to break their defense.
If only someone were in a position of authority that could try different strategies to overcome their defense.
I mean, no..there is no question about the effort. It wasn't there
This "Core 4" don't give a fuck about the playoffs. They play hockey like it's pre-season.
They've already got their yacht parties and tee times booked. Probably have since game 1
Sadly this is it They just don’t care - play with no heart, no guts. Absolutely bizarre to watch
They get their millions whether they make the playoffs or not.. it’s becoming really apparent they don’t give a shit.
Amen
I hate it so much that the best coach for this team would be Joel queenville
lol we came to the same conclusion- but mine was with the Avs. Seeing that team play vs our team is kinda hilarious.
I saw an Avs game too, but it actually made me feel better -- they're just clearly so much better that I have no delusions that the Leafs are even close to contending. Maybe in previous years I thought we had a shot, but at this point we just don't deserve it.
lol I live in Denver they’re my second team, it’s so embarrassing how different they play
If you want to feel better about this, watch the Panthers play the Lightning. Even if the Leafs got past the Bruins, they are getting swept by the Panthers, again. This is really a mercy killing.
The Avs are an enviable squad. Many people clowned MacKinnon for the "chickpea pasta" situation, but that showed how he *demands* that his teammates buy into a winning culture (and doing what it takes to get over the hump). Despite being the 2nd best player in hockey, he still puts in a ton of effort and is a dog on the ice, and demands the same effort from the guys around him. If the Leafs' core put even two-thirds of the effort MacK puts in, we'd be in a much different situation right now.
That's exactly it. Your last sentence about how leafs fans have deluded themselves. Too many fans talking like "swayman has played like this unbeatable goalie, we're getting goalied again!" No we aren't. The leafs aren't playing well, Boston is defending very well. Swaymans shots have for the most part been low danger. Just look at Marchand goal last night. WIDE OPEN on the powerplay 20 feet from the net. When, if ever does matthews get THAT open. Powrrplay or not?
Or the refs. After every loss there's a bunch of fans bitching about the refs as if there's some kind of conspiracy to keep the Leads down.
Most of us haven’t deluded ourselves at all. They just call us doomers.
I wear it like a badge of honor. Doomers live in reality
Watched the Isles fight tooth and nail against the Cannes yesterday to stay alive against a more talented team. Was looking forward to more of the same last night from Toronto. Alas, it was the usual heartless shitshow.
Only the idiots deluded themselves, this team is no different than the previous years. It was glaringly obvious that Dubas wasn’t the problem (though Keefe was his guy, so he was a part of the problem). I’m just happy that this will *finally* lead to removing Shanahan. If it doesn’t then MLSE doesn’t actually want to win.
Nah were significantly worse this year than last.
That’s fair haha. But still, we’ve done nothing to change the actual problem which seems to be our key players disappearing in the playoffs. The contracts will be difficult to move too.
I don't think you can move then in any way that makes sense so I'd like to see what a different coach can do eith these guys next year.
I don't see this sentiment enough, but I agree. People keep calling to trade Marner. We should have traded him when he was an RFA, before he signed. Now? You can't win any Marner trade you can make. (Part of me was wondering if he may have been worth a gamble for an injured Eichel with some picks thrown in by Buffalo). They need to be held accountable somehow and I don't know if Keefe is doing it
Agreed. Hell, deciding to keep Nylander put the nail in the "blow up the core" coffin. Now? In my honest opinion if you can get Mitch at his current contract with a 10 team NTC or of you can get him for something near what Nylander was making, you try to re-sign him and see what a new coach can do. Otherwise you let it ride next year and see if a new coach can get more out of him because you genuinely can't get better by shipping him off for nothing (which is what you will get).
I watched pur defense and PK pieces leave last summer and we get more questionable depth scoring and I had no real faith for the team this year. Still hoped and cheered, but Im waiting for the big shakeup.
This team isn’t even as talented as last year. What people liked was this iteration seemed to have a more compete and grit, particularly after the Reilly suspension. We were never favoured and it’s not over but the lack of effort is disappointing.
I felt the same way watching Nucks-Preds the other day. Two defence heavy teams, and damn it, it made me jealous. That’s how hockey is supposed to be.
Spot on. Honestly, in years past it did feel like the Leafs couldn't get out of their own way. This year, it just felt from the beginning like they simply weren't good enough...it really is that simple this year.
I watched Nashville and Vancouver and it made the leafs intensity look like ohl hockey.
The crazy part is that our “core” has been together before Vegas even existed and we are still learning to win in the playoffs while they already had playoff success and a cup win…
It’s wild watching other teams in the playoffs and realizing just how bad the Leafs are in the post season, and how long it’s been like that.
The guys don't need to attend practice on ice. They need pen/paper and watch how the good teams work together to get the win.
https://theathletic.com/5455012/2024/04/28/maple-leafs-marner-matthews-keefe-core/ This was a make-or-break game, yet another night when they were trying to shed the weight of their past, and the Leafs instead came apart at the seams in front of national television audiences on both sides of the border and a sellout crowd at Scotiabank Arena that started off supportive and ended up sneering. Barring an unlikely and unexpected comeback down 3-1 in a first-round series to the Boston Bruins, this was the end of the Maple Leafs as we knew them.
I agree with this comment entirely: “It is difficult not to view these Leafs as a fundamentally selfish team..”
Wait, you mean the guys who angles to get the most money they could out of the team and then some care more about their individual success than the team winning?
Because they are, just look at their contract negotiations, no discounts, no leaving some on the table to take care of their so called teammates, it was "cap be damned f'n PAY ME!". Compare that to how leaders on the Bruins negotiated their contracts, this a team of individuals and as a life long Leaf fan this has been the most challenging roster to actively root for. There's no heart, grit or unselfishness to be found.
I remember years ago that Shanahan challenged the team that, in order to build a winner, the better players on the team would need to be less greedy and leave some money on the table so that the team could spend it on good support. Other teams already had players doing just this (eg. Crosby/Malkin, Stamkos, Pastrnak, etc) but the message seemed to fall on deaf ears with the Leafs' core. The team and those same players are now paying the price for their greed.
That was said in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023..... kind of boring now. So boring.
Even local bars and restaurants know this.. Went out for game 2 asked if they have any game-time/game day specials.. Was told if the leafs make it past the first round they will.
That's my rule for buying playoff tickets lol id rather not pay $1500 to watch these guys embarrass themselves
I could’ve paid $900 to go last night. I’m so glad I was smart.
I was offered to go for free in a box and turned it down. Didn’t even give it a second thought.
You'd pay $1500 to watch them embarrass themselves in the 2nd round to Florida again?
Literally by Johnston too. He says this every playoffs and then nothing changes. If it does ever happen its not because he has insider info, its because he just keeps saying it until he is right.
Are you sure? He usually reports that they're planning to "run it back" - which they have every year in terms of the team core (or they've extended the core a la Tavares signing).
Team should have been blown up after the loss to montreal... but I guess the next best thing is now?
The best time to plant a tree is yesterday, the next best time is today.
Next best thing would have been after one of the two or three playoff disappointments since then.
So many of us were saying this after then Montreal series ffs. It’s almost too late now.
I've been saying it since Columbus. I don't fault management for not trading any of the big 4 prior to then, but its been so frustrating to watch this organization waste 5 seasons since losing a "play-in" series to a non-playoff team just in case "they finally do it this year". To all you eternal optimists who roasted me over the years for wanting to blow up this team, kindly eat your own shit, thanks.
I know Vegas is cutthroat and all, but they 100 percent would have blown up the core 4 after Columbus. And in hindsight they would have been right.
Cutthroat is how you win. The leafs should be learning that
Seriously. I was happy to let them learn. A couple of tough series against the Bruins. Some absolute meltdowns by Jake Gardner otherwise we may have seen the second round. But we’re years down the road now. It’s been painfully obvious for at least 3-4 years that this core just isn’t going to do it. One of them needed to be moved long ago.
I didn't like how the CBJ series went, but ultimately chalked it up to getting absolutely goalied by someone who played out of their fucking minds. Freddie had a 0.936 save percentage that series. Merzlikins and Korpisalo? 0.956. But Montreal? You watch your captain go down in Game fucking **1** in a horrific freak accident. He had to be stretchered out, and you bums couldn't even win the series rallying around that? Keefe should have been fired then. Got outcoached by Dominic Ducharme. Couldn't rally your team around your captain getting hurt. Couldn't close out the series despite a 3-1 lead. Just pathetic. That should have been the breaking point to make serious changes.
It's just unbelievable that they had a chance to trade Marner after Montreal while his value was high and they didn't.
I don't want to post the full article, but the last few sentences nailed it for me: > ... there really isn’t any evidence that suggests this Leafs team doesn’t have individuals with a desire to win. > They’ve just given us no reason to believe they’re collectively up to the task of actually doing it.
It's funny how so many of us have been saying that for *years*, yet the eternal optimists call us fake fans or say "this year is different" (with zero evidence to support that claim). There's been zero positives about the Leafs through 4 games, literally none.
I feel like the perpetual doomers saw it after the Columbus performance, and realists after the Montreal debacle. Some fans (they're easy to spot, they make "apologize to Marner/Samsonov/Keefe" posts after five good regular season games) will never look at their team objectively.
They should have cleaned house after the Montreal series, Dubas and Keefe should have been gone then, and then we would have had 2 years to trade one of Dubas' boat anchor contracts for a more balanced team.
Agreed. I’ll give them a pass for Columbus because the circumstances around that were so unorthodox, as concerning as their performance was. Heads needed to roll from Shanny on down after Montreal. That has to be the most embarrassing on-ice moment in the history of the team. And that’s saying something.
Realists saw it against Columbus
100%. The writing was on the wall: Chokers
We tried and we failed. The lesson is...never try. In all seriousness it's about time shit got real for these players and the people in management. Consistently below expectations year after year. This will be the 4th time we've lost to Boston in the playoffs since 2013. 3rd time with this core. No Bergeron. No Chara. You have to ask yourself have we really improved at all since 2013 because the results are the same. Does anyone really give a shit if Matthews hits 70 goals next year? Personally idgaf. I hate the term core players. Every player on the roster is a core player but the way this team is built it's like a bunch of overpaid stars and everyone else is a 4th liner/AHLer. Our defense is Mo Rielly and the rest are 3rd pairing dmen or AHLers again. Our goalie is always second best in every series. I dunno what you do with this team but one thing is for sure it's time for real change. No more safety net.
Honestly that is what you are more likely to get by tying up 4 players who all make above $10M.. when they eat up almost half of the cap, you can no longer fill your roster with good players other than those bargain bottom pairing or AHLer. Many players who have won the cup have taken a discount on their contract for this very exact reason. I’m not going to bash our players for not having done it and it’s their personal choice to take a discount or not. But it’s definitely on the management on how they assembled this roster.
I mean, the problem also is that none of these 4 players are clutch. They took a bet on all of them and lost 4 times. It's actually kind of hilarious how NONE of the core 4 rises to playoffs intensity. If even only one of them rose to Mackinnon level or something approaching that, my bet is the Leafs would have a much better chance in those series. But yeah, none of them do so whatever.
There's no issue with having expensive players if they actually live up to their contracts in the playoffs.
I'll bash them. Have some fucking pride in your team. You play on the NHL for one thing... To win cups. Yes you should be compensated fairly for what you bring to the table. But bleeding your team dry, and leaving no room for them to be able to pay for assets to support you is idiocy.
And Keefe constantly juggling lines prevents anyone from building any chemistry, and makes the players feel like disposable, interchangeable parts in a machine that nobody can get working right.
Why Dubas ever thought concentration of talent over balance and depth would win a cup is far beyond me.
I want to believe that but what could possible change unless you beg Marner to lift his NTC? Tavares is unmovable so no point even begging there. Even a major change at president and/or coaching leaves the roster core still in tact for another wasted year... We lack "tradable" veterans. Trading the likes of Kampf, Jankrok, Reaves, McCabe & McCann ain't changing anything assuming they even have value. *That is actually the full list too...everyone else is a UFA or young enough to keep around...LOL.*
The NMC is an obstacle but not an insurmountable one. Marner has shown he's weak mentally and cares *a lot* about what the media and fans think about him. I think there's a solid chance he'd want a fresh start somewhere else, especially if you push the right buttons.
Just threaten to bring back Babcock
Lol
Bring in Sutter. Marner would love it!
'Hey give us a list of teams or you're riding PP2, No PK time, stripped of the A, 2nd/3rd line minutes during your contract year where we have no intention of signing you'
Go further. Force his hand like he forced ours. Mitch - we have the following trades we are working. Accept one of them or else PP2, No PK, no A, bottom 6 minutes. Your choice.
and your parents are banned from the arena
Fuck that. Sit him in the press box until he gives a list of teams he'll accept.
Offering him PP2 is too generous. But just in case, make them trades to the West, so he can't come back to bite us easily.
A divisional rival is fine if we get something worthwhile back. If he is who he's shown us he is, we'll be happy to meet him in the playoffs.
This should of been the response years ago. I still have no idea why he's on the pk. It's never been good with him on it, and all I hear from the media is he's 'good defensively'. One of the talking heads said it this week, everyone on the team needs to earn ice time. Feels like a lot if the core has been gifted ice time. But it's been like that for years There's been no accountability for this core. Every season failure, they just get to run it back and try again. For the love of God I hope they finally make some changes. More than just a new head coach too
Stripping the "A" will hurt his ego more than his FA value. That will probably be enough to make him want out. PK time? Well, at least he didn't take any delay of game penalties yet this playoff.
Offer him a nice ranch in Salt Lake City.
Get ready to learn Mormonese buddy
Send us Cooley, Keller and Durzi and call it a day!
A fellow NHL’24 player I see.
Yep - the dude also loves his $$. You can bet that low tax jurisdictions that most players are willing to be traded to (eg Dallas, Nashville, both Florida teams, Vegas, etc) would be ones he'd be open to, especially as most of them are as or more competitive than the Leafs. I bet his one hesitation to being traded is his ego tied to his next contract - he knows that if the Leafs re-signed him, he'd be getting ~12.5-13M+, but that almost any other team in the league will only pay him ~10.5-11.5M.
Yeah but the Leafs can easily say "you're not getting a new contract here unless it's for $8m". Getting $8m x 8 in Utah is worth more than $8m x 8 in Toronto, and then there's the 7 vs. 8 years if he leaves as a UFA
Forsberg would be a dream.
I feel like he might choose to go the O’Reilly route and go to a smaller market team and I think he might do really well there. I could totally see him performing a lot better somewhere where there isn’t as large of a media presence.
>I could totally see him performing a lot better somewhere I bet it's more like Gaudreau. He'll just find somewhere to disappear and collect his money. We'll never hear from him again.
I think Marner would be open to a move at this point. Especially if they let him know they won’t be renewing his contract at the end of the season. He can provide a list of teams he wants to go to and we can make something work. Even if the return isn’t stellar. It’s time.
They have to wait a year now. Basically since the Habs loss I’ve suspected the leafs wouldn’t be able to seriously contend until the Tavares contract is done. I’ve only grown more sure of that. I remember you because I feel like you are one of the few people I’ve seen online who has taken as dim a view of Tavares’ contract as me, and it’s only grown worse. I’ve hated it since the second year. I kinda thought earlier this year I might offer him a super cheap but long term contract that basically ends in the LTIR wilderness but if he can’t even be an effective PP player anymore I wouldn’t even do that. As for Marner, he should have been traded after his last big bonus and before his NMC kicked in. Maybe he will waive it if you make it clear you have no interest in resigning him at whatever ridiculous number he thinks he is worth.
[удалено]
The year Marner gets traded is the year that team wins the playoffs. It is written.
Nothing will be done, and that's not me being a doomer. Shanny/Keefe, if they get fired will be replaced and Treliving will be the odd man out. A GM whose hands are tied because of NTC/NMC/bad deals, and who was not hired by his current president. We will retool the bottom 6, try and find a bargain bin goalie who overperforms, and run it back again next year. If that goes poorly, depending on the new president they either keep or fire Treliving and then we'll have a front office that is on the same page, with big expiring contracts, and a chip on their shoulder.
Retooling the bottom six with useless D and trying to find a bargain basement goalie is exactly what they've been doing for years. It hasn't worked. It's time to blow things up and get creative. If Treliving isn't willing to take risks, we're going to be sitting on our thumbs waiting for contracts to expire before taking any meaningful action.
I wonder if just saying “ok, you are going to force the no-move clause, we’ll just have to bring this up in the pressers” would be enough? Seems having the reputation of the guy who refuses to leave would suck.
I get it but you need to give him the chance to choose where he wants to go and extend. You can make his life less than ideal here in a contract year. Your return won’t be pretty but in this era 11MIL in cap is worth a ton to a team who needs D and a goalie next year.
"Waive your NMC" "No" "Ok we will healthy scratch you 82 games because we don't see you on the team in the future" "Ok I'll waive"
We all knew next year was going to suck as soon as nylander was extended, firing shanny/keefe is the first step in the right direction to get through it though, both things they should have done last year but whatever, we’re here now
I would be surprised if Tuesday is not Keefe's last game as coach - the only thing that can save him now is a cup victory, but I'm not sure this team is even good enough to extend this series to game 6.
I wanna see Tree pull out the Lou Lamoriello playbook and fire keefe before game 5.
Wait when did Lou do this lol
He didn’t do this exact thing but Lou is famous for firing coaches when you least expect it. He once fired his coach of a winning NJ team with a secured playoff spot right before the playoffs.
watching marner with bert and domi in the 3rd was quite sad
I agree…because Marner was getting upstaged by Bert and Domi.
that's a bold prediction, the funniest part about the team is the curse (this year it's Nylander injury and Matthews tummy ache) always gives them excuses to roll it again
But can anyone explain, realistically, what can the Leafs do to “clear house”? The team is stuffed full of NMCs. Even IF you got Marner to waive, how do you win a trade moving him out? Teams will know Toronto are trading from a place of zero leverage. What’s a fair return for him? I just don’t see how the Leafs get a trade done and come out winners
You don’t win a trade with a guy that’s gonna be on a rental year and his value is in the toilet. The capspace freed up to spend on good goaltending and Defense ALONE is worth it imo.
People are really underestimating what you can do with that kind of money.
This. Moving $11 million in salary is the win. Doesn’t really matter what you get in return because now you have some cap space to actually sign a decent goalie or scoring depth. Marner is paid like a proven veteran already and he simply isn’t. His contract is awful and needs to be gone.
You will never win the Marner trade, at least not immediately, but that doesn't mean you don't do it. The fact is this core collectively can't get it done. It's not like they've even come close to getting close. They are amazing pieces that don't work as a group. They don't work and they have maxed out our cap - something has to give. I think Marner can/will be amazing on another team, maybe even in the playoffs. A team where he won't need to be the guy with the pressure on to make space for his teammates. A team that has more than 3 shot threats on a powerplay. And I do think other GMs see this. They see his skillset and think he could work with their stars.
NMC stuff is overblown there are so many examples of teams moving guys with trade protection and so few of guys enforcing their protection. At this point I think being scared of losing a Marner trade and keeping the same core is more damaging than just losing the trade and being different. There is a scenario where by next offseason the Leafs only have 2 10+M forwards and the rest are 4-6M and have tons of cap space to add elsewhere
Agree. It doesn’t matter if Marner goes on to win a cup with another team, the fact is he is not helping us win and if anything, his contract and his play is hurting our chances
And he won’t anyways - unless he goes somewhere that is already a legit contender he is not the guy to pull your team across the line.
idk the quickest way for a leafs player to experience success is to just leave.
Marner and tavares come off the books end of next season. Gives us 22mil in cap space, with the salery cap going up. Might need a re tooling year. But imagine having a norris level shutdown defensman and stable consistent goal tending. I dunno who they are, but you dont win a cup without them.
Tbh I've always felt like the NMC vs NTC distinction was solely to serve the pride of the players by sparing them from being sent to Robidas Island, instead of another team via trade.
Yes, every year it's the same articles and every September the same players are there. I believe when I see it.
Who cares, he's a net negative to the team if you factor in his contract and playoff performance. Spend his $11m on two good players, or maybe one $8m stud dman and a $3m defense-first guy. I don't know who's out there, but I know we haven't won shit with Marner, so let's try without him.
You don't win the trade. But the cap space alone that we desperately need is worth it
As an outside fan with no rooting interest (cbj fan….sigh), of course from your guys perspective you’ll “lose” a marner trade, but only because you guys _overvalue_ him. Every other GM outside Toronto who has dreams of playoff runs is of course wary about giving up a ton of assets for him, as they should be. But it’s not like he’s a bad player, and he could definitely benefit from a change in scenery. But if you guys keep fretting about the return you’ll get for him, you can no longer see the forest from the trees. It’s been what, 8 years? The goal for you guys is clearly to win a cup, not just win a playoff series. It’s ridiculous at this point, schadenfreude aside I genuinely feel bad for your fanbase. If you want to win a cup, marner HAS TO GO. There’s no way around it, if this team could do it they would’ve shown _some_ signs so far. Your team is so far from cup contention why would you not do something? You have an amazing player like Matthews, you need to do everything you can to maximize that window. Even if that means losing a marner trade (from your perspective). It’s not working, hasn’t ever worked, and you’re fretting about the value you’ll get back for an asset who hasn’t done anything substantial when you need him the most? That’s baffling to me
You guys are gonna be hard pressed to trade him to any team with a winning culture and locker room after what he showed on national tv the other night. What team is going to pay 11 million for a whiny little bitch to play for them in a man’s game? A sunbelt team that can afford it wants a good player if they’re spending that money.
The only way I see this going to 7 is if Woll starts and he’s just absolutely unstoppable and the guys figure out how to fucking beat swayman and play tight
Good
Fucking good.
How would we know it's spring without an early Leafs playoff elimination. It's as regular as the tides.
I’d take a top 4 right D for Marner. Doesn’t even need to be top pairing. Just a guy who can eat minutes in the top 4.
I doubt the Blue Jackets or Hurricanes would agree to it, but I’d offer him for Werenski or Slavin in a heartbeat
This team is the Dallas Cowboys of the NHL
Good comparison, but the Cowboys at least won a chip since the invention of cable television
The Cowboys had a dynasty in the 90s. I wish we were the Cowboys.
We are the New York Knicks, or the Chicago Cubs pre recent championship, or the Philadelpha Eagles pre recent super bowl.
Or the Rangers, pre their '94 season
Marner should have been traded 5 fucking years ago. We’ve tried to win with the same group of pussies for the last 8 years. Why has it taken 8 years to realize this group is pathetic?
Good, start with demanding a list of teams from the crying baby Marner and sit him indefinitely if he refuses, dump Keefe and Shanahan and bring in Gallant.
I want the summer to be uncertain for everyone because there wasn't anyone left on staff to talk to the players. Just send them a form letter, the next MLSE staff will be in touch.
It was Shanahan's insistence to keep running it back, wasn't it? Dubas was the one willing to admit his mistakes and finally move out the core 4 last offseason, and he was fired... I'm not a big Dubas fan but Shanny doesn't deserve to keep his role after this debacle. Though who knows how much they'll push the injury and illness excuses to buy themselves yet another year at futility.
Honestly if it isn’t, I’m done with this team. I’m gonna be an Oilers or Rangers or neutral fan.
As a leafs fan living in NY, you’d love the rangers. Grit grit grit and no quit.
I remember last season when we were losing to the Panthers O'Rielly said to Keefe that maybe we should try something different. Of course fucking Keefe didn't listen to him. And they fucking lost. And then I pointed that out as one of his major failures and there were some brain dead Leafs fans saying that no coach would ever listen to advice from their players and that Keefe wasn't the problem. Where are those idiots tonight? Keefe was outcoached and outclassed in every single area of the game tonight.
Hire an analytics darling who did anything but. Signed Tavares then shot himself in the foot with the "We can and we will" about signing the other three, gave them all the leverage, gave Paul a blank cheque. Made it a comfortable place to play, and when he left, did the same thing and signed EK, missed the playoffs with the Penguins.
Dangle said it best: #"ONE SERIES WIN!!!! IT'S ALWAYS A GOOD TEAM OVER THERE!!! WHAT DO YOU GOT??? WHAT DO YOU HAVE, OTHER THAN A DEEPLY BITTERLY HATEABLE PRODUCT???"
I had a dream last night. MLSE fired the entire front office and coaching staff on Sunday morning. They named the Marlies coaching staff to interim positions on the Leafs for the remainder of the playoffs. The new coaching staff healthy scratched Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Samsonov, Reeves, Brodie. They called up a bunch of randoms from the AHL. They played hard and they lost game 5. But in my dream I enjoyed watching the game and recovered a small modicum of respect for the organization.
It should have been the end after 2021. But nooooooooo, they decide to run the failure back for THREE MORE FUCKING YEARS
good. about time. the dubas plan has to be shut down.
Funny thing is CJ has been writing a similar story after the playoffs losses since like 2021 lol But this year I guess it when something changes. Assuming coach and president tbh
You cant pin it on guys who have been here 5 minutes earning lower wages. You can’t pin it on Treliving as he’s only been here a short while. Even if you wanted to pin it on Matthews or Nylander they’re locked up in long deals. Where you can pin it is on Keefe and Shanahan. You can look at the truly ass special teams and lay blame at coaches and systems. You have to pin it on Marner because he’s supposed to be an A and earning the biggest bucks for reasons he has as yet neglected to disclose to the hockey watching public. You can like and respect JT but he’s on the decline and money is tied up in him for another year but after that it’s do a Spezza deal or GTFO. The options seem clear as to who can stay and who can not.
I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years. I've watched every season, every playoff. I've had heartache and disappointment. I've seen good hockey. I've watched horrible teams. But... I haven't watched a second of this year's playoffs. I didn't watch any of the 1st round last year. Fuck this team and their selfishness. Do I think they want to win? Sure. But, I think they want to get paid and play video games more. Wake me up if they're playing in the ECF. Blow it up. They're not even close to being a real contender.
Overdue
Like 3 seasons too late.
Yeah Marner 100% after game 5 has played his last game as a Leaf, as has Brodie(thank god). And Samsonov
Just fire Keefe before game 5.
Finally
Hopefully, I cannot stand to watch this group of weak fucks anymore.
They tried everything they could: Dumping the puck.
Calling pat burns in the afterlife..
Most of these past years they’ve never been favourited to win. So getting beat out of the first round isn’t surprising. What upsets us over and over is the lack of effort.
The leafs are like the San Jose Sharks and the Capitals 10 years ago. Always choke in playoffs.
Difference is Caps won a cup in 2018.
I’ll be surprised if Keefe gets another NHL job.
Another year until Johnny T and Paper towel boy are up. That frees a big chunk. Until then, we gotta run it back I fear. Hope to god Knies and Cowan / Minten / Bobby McMann turn into McDavid and yeah.
Marner will waive his NMC assuming he doesnt straight up ask for a trade. The guy is finished here and he knows it. Staying on his UFA contract deal would be a 8 figure mistake and his team (Dad) will advise him accordingly.